Is Fedor Emelianenko's Management Angling to Fight Josh Barnett in DREAM?
by Kid Nate on Mar 2, 2010 3:37 PM EST
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Josh Gross tweeted his take on why Fedor is not on the April Strikeforce card:
At this pt, expect Fedor to get a new deal with SF. This is akin to a major leaguer holding out for more money.
Zak Woods has a great post attempting to clarify some of the questions left hanging after yesterday's explosion of Strikeforce news, here are a couple of his remarks:
Does this mean Fedor vs. Werdum will be in May?
M-1 said so, but I am not sure how many people take them at their word...
It's B.S. that Overeem vs. Rogers is a non-title fight!
On the surface this statement makes sense until you consider what would've happened if it was for a title fight. Fans would've cried foul play if Rogers would be fighting for a title after losing to Fedor.
Note: Championship fights warrant automatic testing. Take what you will from that...
That's why Fedor should be fighting Overeem!
WKR won't argue with that statement other than to point out two facts. Strikeforce was actively trying to set up the Rogers-Overeem fight since the summer of 2009 and now they have finally delivered on it. Second, Fedor's camp wants pre-fight PED testing, which seems perfectly reasonable to us...
Fedor/M-1 are using this as leverage to force Strikeforce into giving them more money!
WKR has said this before, "if we are going to be a capitalist country then we can't raise hell when someone acts in their own interest".
However, we would counter our own point by saying that while this strategy might have short term benefits it appears to be wrought with long term risk, i.e., the long term viability of Strikeforce as a place for Fedor to compete.
Zach Arnold thinks that this is all heading towards a Fedor vs Josh Barnett bout in DREAM:
I’ve long said that Fedor will likely fight in DREAM because there’s more money there than there is in the States. Plus his management knows Japan and what the tea leaves are there. Fedor’s management wants to fight Josh Barnett and that fight in terms of the amount of money needed to book it can only happen in Japan. If it happens in America, not a lot of MMA fans will care and it will lose significant cash. The irony is thick when it comes to Fedor’s management saying that Alistair Overeem is a steroid bully and yet they want to fight Barnett. Amazing how truly scared people are of fighting Overeem at this point.
It is pretty ironic that Fedor's team is suddenly raising multiple objections to fighting Alistair Overeem.
Like Luke said the other day, Fedor and M-1 are like players at a blackjack table, sometimes they pass, sometimes they say hit me.
Right now they appear to have the dealer waiting and holding his next card while they make up their minds.
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should have put him on matthew lesko.
Some people think I am a dumb, ugly human being, but really I am a beautiful ape, with exceptional verbal skills.
It’s B.S. that Overeem vs. Rogers is a non-title fight!
On the surface this statement makes sense until you consider what would’ve happened if it was for a title fight. Fans would’ve cried foul play if Rogers would be fighting for a title after losing to Fedor.
Note: Championship fights warrant automatic testing. Take what you will from that…
That’s why Fedor should be fighting Overeem!
Its this part that I disagree with. Sure I want the AO/Fedor fight and logic of sport compels that fight to be made, but Strikeforce has grown up since the last time AO fought for them. Its not that he needs a warm up fight to tune him up, he needs a warm up fight to reintroduce him to the fans and the American audience at large. I disagree that Rogers is the right man for that, but he needs something that makes him a viable fighter. Maybe the belt make him that on its own, but I think a reasonable matchup that he should win will go much further. I know Fedor/AO should happen, but what I know counts for shit. This is a strong promotion that they want to build. Not Affliction
Some people think I am a dumb, ugly human being, but really I am a beautiful ape, with exceptional verbal skills.
by szucconi on Mar 2, 2010 3:18 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
my problem is the non-title fight
Sure fans would have cried foul with Rogers getting a title shot after a loss but the idea that someone can lose and remain champion is absurd to me.
I hate non-title fights for the champion. Hated it when Pride did it. Hated it when Mousasi/Soko was non-title and will still hate it when Overeem/Rogers is non-title.
That being said Overeem/Rogers should be a great fight.
by bigdmmafan on Mar 2, 2010 3:25 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I hate that idea just as much as the next guy. Like I said, Fedor/AO for the title is the most logical pairing, but to make that match bigger and to build the promotion they will need to make another AO match before that. Maybe a Kickboxing match, he just needs to fight under the strikeforce banner. Rogers is dangerous and its a risk, but the risk of making that fight too fast, I think could be worse.
Some people think I am a dumb, ugly human being, but really I am a beautiful ape, with exceptional verbal skills.
My only issue is this…what if Rogers wins? What do you do with the belt? Cause at that point Fedor/Werdum is booked for a non title fight. If Rogers wins can you really say that Overeem is the champ?
twitter.com/thisredengine
by Matthew Roth on Mar 2, 2010 3:31 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
The chances of Rogers winning are pretty slim, but not slim enough if I am in the driver seat. Maybe Monson, maybe a lesser HW, Maybe a random super HW so the illusion of the belt will not be broken if AO loses.
Some people think I am a dumb, ugly human being, but really I am a beautiful ape, with exceptional verbal skills.
Rogers hits hard enough to knock out Overeem. I just think that this is a dangerous fight with little payoff. If Overeem loses you have Fedor fight Rogers again for the belt? You ignore the loss and have Fedor/Overeem? Fedor vs. the winner of Arlovski/Silva? I know people are jacked on these fights but the fuck are they gonna do?
twitter.com/thisredengine
As bad as it would be for SF and their marketing crew
every fight you just listed is something I’d be pretty stoked to watch.
"Someone is WRONG on the internet. What do you want me to do? LEAVE? Then they'll keep being wrong!"
-Randall Munroe
by pdl on Mar 2, 2010 3:41 PM EST up reply actions
I can't get behind those fights because
Fedor/Arlovski II? Fedor/Silva? Fedor/Rogers II? Only one that I have any interest in at this point is Fedor/Silva and again, technically Overeem is still the champ even if he loses to Rogers, so what do you do with the belt?
It just seems like Strikeforce is assuming that Overeem wins and doesn’t have a contingency in case he doesn’t.
twitter.com/thisredengine
Yea if Rogers beats Overeem Strikeforce almost has to do a re-match with the belt on the line. Nothing else would seem to make sense to me.
Just BE.
Givin a AO loss
Fedor vs. the winner of Arlovski/Silva would be a fine replacement. Here is an outside the box idea that the hardcore fans would be pissed at. Put Rogers/AO on the undercard. If AO KOs him in a big way, show it, if Brett wins, ignore that it ever happens.
Some people think I am a dumb, ugly human being, but really I am a beautiful ape, with exceptional verbal skills.
I know this comes up again a lot
but it seems like at this point, the only thing they can do to give their belt any sort of legitimacy at all is to strip AO and hold a tournament. That way we can have Rogers/AO as a non title fight, Fedor can fight Werdum, and when the winners of those two fighter fight each other, the belt will mean something again.
by Shaun32887 on Mar 2, 2010 3:47 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I dont read into alot of what Gross has to say
he “tweeted” after the UFC on Versus deal was announced that he was sure a deal was gonna get worked out between Comcast and Direc TV in time and that doesnt look like it’s gonna happen.
As for Fedor/Barnett, Vadim changes his mind all the f’n time. Didnt he say after the whole Affliction debacle that they wouldnt consider fighting Barnett? Oh wait that was before the problems with Strikeforce and now considering Barnett is 1 of only a couple ranked non-UFC and non-Strikeforce hw’s avaiable he’s changed his tune.
Fedor, Fedor, Fedor what can you say about him and M1 other than when you deal with them, you get what you deserve. Kudos to SF for putting on a top flight show without him and Kudos to DW for not giving into this guy’s demands. It seems like SF is saying we are doing this with or without you (May fight card) and Vadim has countered with threatening to go to Dream to fight Barnett. All in all its about money. A real shame that one of the best HW’s of all time is letting these guys tarnish his image and play with his legacy.
It seems like SF is saying we are doing this with or without you (May fight card) and Vadim has countered with threatening to go to Dream to fight Barnett.
I sorta see it this way too. At this point it’s almost like a standoff.
You have to be the man... you have to be very, like, alpha male with her. You know? Decide what you do and everything. So, show her who's the boss, you know? - GSP
THIS
Is why the UFC didn’t sign Fedor.
by TheConcreteKid on Mar 2, 2010 3:35 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
That's how I feel
And honestly, if he’s just going to do this for his whole career, I’d rather not have him in the UFC
To be sure, Stirkeforce signing a guy means less then the UFC signing a guy. They negotiate to sign him so they can negotiate fights with them. UFC does it similarly, but with more restrictions it is in the fighters best interest to make a deal. Fedor doesn’t need Strikeforce at this point. He has the power and he can say he want to fight whoever he wants. If that has to happen in Japan then Strikeforce is boned.
Some people think I am a dumb, ugly human being, but really I am a beautiful ape, with exceptional verbal skills.
If that’s the case, is his contract even worth the paper it’s printed on?
by Worldisart on Mar 2, 2010 5:00 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
It keeps him out of the UFC, but not in Strikeforce. Well, maybe if the UFC did a fight in Japan, Fedor could be on the card.
Some people think I am a dumb, ugly human being, but really I am a beautiful ape, with exceptional verbal skills.
The rumour mongering surrounding Fedor is getting pretty repetitive and tiresome, but ZA’s “tea leaves” comment is rather interesting. Perhaps there is a turnaround expected soon in Japanese MMA? I was told there is going to be a big push in 2010…
wasn’t Dynamite!! 2009 an improvement over the past couple years?
We're just a million little gods causin' rain storms, turning every good thing to rust.
I'm not so sure...
It seems like most of the promotions are losing money on MMA over there with the exception of FEG… in which K-1 is their major money maker.
Follow me on Twitter @lelandroling
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein
by Leland Roling on Mar 2, 2010 3:46 PM EST up reply actions
All it would take is something simple like DREAM moving up to Fuji TV, and we could see a big jump in mainstream awareness of MMA in Japan.
It’s possible. I want to believe it.
Follow me on Twitter @lelandroling
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein
by Leland Roling on Mar 2, 2010 3:52 PM EST up reply actions
Honestly...
Minowa Fighting Championships needs to happen.
Nothing but scrawny pro wrestling submission grapplers vs. behemoth freak show fighters. $9.95 PPV with Minowa in the main event = Solid GOLD.
Follow me on Twitter @lelandroling
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein
by Leland Roling on Mar 2, 2010 3:49 PM EST up reply actions
Tournament format!
Bob Sapp vs. Melvin Manhoef
vs.
Sakuraba vs. Gan McGee
Side 2
Mariuz Pudz (not spellin’ it out) vs. Mark Hunt
vs.
HMC vs. Tim Sylvia
Winner gets Minowa on New Years. Boosh.
"Someone is WRONG on the internet. What do you want me to do? LEAVE? Then they'll keep being wrong!"
-Randall Munroe
by pdl on Mar 2, 2010 3:57 PM EST up reply actions
Helping a friend?
Just wanted to throw out another idea that I hadn’t heard yet.
Supposedly Fedor and Barnett are friends. It could be possible Fedor wants the fight with Barnett to help out a friend who has hit hard times and is having some financial troubles.
Oh well, just another guess to add to all the others.
To some degree, I do agree with Zach Arnold’s last line about Overeem. I can buy that M-1 does not want to fight Overeem. I doubt Fedor’s scared of Overeem, but I can see M-1 being terrified of him.
On one hand, Fedor should have everything over Overeem but if you’ve watched Overeem’s K-1 fights it’s pretty evident that even against top level stand up fighters, Overeem has serious frightening power in his blows now. I’d even go as far as to say that his knee strikes may be the single most devastating blow in combat sports right now. That knee is a one shot one kill blow. If Overeem can survive, it’s very possible he’ll land that one shot eventually. And one shot with Overeem is all it takes nowadays.
On the other hand, how is Josh going to beat Fedor? He doesn’t have Overeem’s power, and everything Josh does Fedor’s better at. For M-1, it’s a good fight. Josh is someone Fedor should beat, and when he does, M-1 can go “Fedor beat the #3 Heavyweight in the World!” and demand more money.
What scares me as a Fedor fan about Overeem
is his first fight with Badr Hari. Hari throws a wild hook, Overeem counters with a tighter hook. He can make Fedor chicken dance with that on hone of his loopy punches and won’t hesitate like Fujita did. He’ll throw the Flying Dutchman knee he tried on James Thompson. Suddenly, the last emperor has no clothes.
Despite that hypothetical… Fedor by armbar!
"Someone is WRONG on the internet. What do you want me to do? LEAVE? Then they'll keep being wrong!"
-Randall Munroe
by pdl on Mar 2, 2010 3:46 PM EST up reply actions
Except Hari throws wild ass bombs as well, and he ended up tagging and hurting Overeem in their last match-up pretty easily. Overeem’s size was almost a disadvantage in that fight.
Follow me on Twitter @lelandroling
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein
by Leland Roling on Mar 2, 2010 3:47 PM EST up reply actions
Right, I mentioned Hari's tendencies, called it a counter to a "wild hook"
That’s why it worries me. It’s a wild punch Fedor would throw. There’s such a clearly illustrated way for him to lose this fight that it makes me nervous. But I’m always nervous before he fights, and going through the ways Fedor can win any fight is kinda silly. GNP, sub, vicious KO that echoes through the arena, knockdown to sub… he could finish Overeem any of those ways. It’s just his weakness is absolutely exploitable in that fight.
"Someone is WRONG on the internet. What do you want me to do? LEAVE? Then they'll keep being wrong!"
-Randall Munroe
by pdl on Mar 2, 2010 3:54 PM EST up reply actions
Fedor sometimes winds up rather wild and corrects his motion with straight power. That type of punch could flatten Overeem badly, but Overeem has some problems keeping himself stable on his feet as well. It wouldn’t surprise me if Fedor clinched, tussled a bit, and unleashed on Overeem as he de-clinched. It’s either that or he works the ground.
Follow me on Twitter @lelandroling
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein
by Leland Roling on Mar 2, 2010 3:56 PM EST up reply actions
The fight could go a lot of ways
which is why it needs to happen. I don’t care if Overeem pisses hot, Fedor has fought roided out guys over and over in PRIDE. M1 aside, who the fuck cares?
"Someone is WRONG on the internet. What do you want me to do? LEAVE? Then they'll keep being wrong!"
-Randall Munroe
by pdl on Mar 2, 2010 4:00 PM EST up reply actions
The roid monsters in Pride he fought didn’t tend to have the flash finishing ability of Megareem.
Keep firing Assholes!
Blackout is always right
Randleman did.
His KO of Cro Cop was pretty devastating. And the Randleplex, had it not been absorbed by Fedor’s cranium, would have sent up a dust cloud so great that there would be a global temperature shift and finish 93% of terrestrial species.
"Someone is WRONG on the internet. What do you want me to do? LEAVE? Then they'll keep being wrong!"
-Randall Munroe
by pdl on Mar 2, 2010 6:48 PM EST up reply actions
Fedor/M-1 are using this as leverage to force Strikeforce into giving them more money!
WKR has said this before, “if we are going to be a capitalist country then we can’t raise hell when someone acts in their own interest”.
I think it’s safe to raise hell in this capitalist country when M-1 got the deal they asked for from Strikeforce but now after just 1 fight it’s not good enough for them.
Just BE.
Is it about money for Fedor or is it about M-1 Global getting more fighters and more exposure during events? If M-1 was just after the biggest payday they would of signed with the UFC to start with but what they were after is to use Fedor to leverage their own brand name into the marketplace on other people’s shows. Has their goals before the first Strikeforce CBS event changed?
I was going to blue qoute the same thing! Good call
So since we are capitalist we can act in our own interests to the extreme? Ok, then I’m going to kill every one I see because it’s in my interest to have more raw materials, food, and land for me and my family.
See how stupid that sounds. We are a capitalist country but we are also a country ruled by LAWS. We hold those laws with a great amount of respect. That includes LEGALLY BINDING contracts. So don’t go pulling this “Ah, we are the communists ignorant of your capitalist ways. This isn’t the way things operate here?!?” act.
I’m still trying to figure out what’s really going on, because most analysis really don’t make sense to me: M-1 is upset at Strikeforce for not having 1/2 the card made up of m-1 fighter? Wouldn’t have M-1 realized going in that an American Channel would have wanted fighters that are draws to the American audience? Couldn’t they just stack the prelims with M-1 fighters and let m-1 broadcast these fights? Wouldn’t they have expressed their displeasure earlier?
But isn’t it amazing that it comes out after Mousasi split from M-1 because they basically wouldn’t make him a partner? This gives me a couple of ideas what could be happening:
- M-1 is upset with Strikeforce for poaching their next biggest – a future pillar- Mousasi.
- M-1 realizes without Mousasi they don’t have a stranglehold over Strikeforce. They are choosing to hack this out now while Fedor is still viewed as the number one HW. This also means the window they have to use this golden goose is shrinking and they want to make sure they cash in, thus playing Dream against CBS for the maximum payday. If that’s the case I could see them wanting to push a huge Barnett/Fedor fight ahead of Overeem so they don’t potentially lose out on that payday.
Shit, I got more but I got to get back to work.
Yea, I see it as M-1 trying to cash in now based on the relative success Fedor has had on network TV. The loss of Mousassi obviously hurts M-1 long-term and as you said…Fedor has never been a bigger cash cow than he is right now.
Fedor is really what makes M-1 relevant as a major intently in North American MMA. They are going to leverage the shit out of him for that reason. I would like to separate Fedor from his business partners but something tells me that is not likely to ever happen while Fedor is still in his prime. I really am tired of this stuff.
"It would appear that the strain was more than he could bear".- Doc Holliday
by MyFistYourFace on Mar 2, 2010 5:00 PM EST up reply actions
I disagree..
I don’t believe M-1 is a major entity in the North American MMA market.. I don’t believe they are a major entity in any MMA market outside of their home base operations..
How many shows do they run a year on their own ? How many top fighters do they employ outside of Fedor that have recognition outside of their internal operations nest ?
What’s their operating budget looking like ? What’s their brand structure, merchandising, and physical assets attributed to ?
M-1 is an entity.. but anyone with 200 bucks in their bank can file for status and become an entity.. doesn’t entitle them to major status.. No one in North America cares about M-1 or their business practice, model etc..outside of the hardcore fan base.. Fedor is still not a draw in the states.. Fedor needs more exposure than the rate he gets to declare appeal ort draw status.. Hershel Walker is a bigger draw for SF than Fedor is.. CBS doesn’t equate draw status.. Kimbo & Gina did FAR better numbers on their own..
8-29-09
Keith Jardine is now known as "The Dean of Antihistamine" because he is always sleeping early in fights..
I think you are agreeing with me for the most part. My point was that M-1 is only relevant because Fedor makes them relevant. As far as his appeal, yes Kimbo and Gina had greater drawing power but they have since lost and will likely lose again. Fedor has less drawing power short-term but he is a legitimate draw who should continue to win. He satisfies both the need to appeal to casual fans as well as hardcore fans and serious media. He is universally recognized as the best HW in the world. Neither Gina nor Kimbo were ever granted such status by anyone credible.
Obviously, if Strikeforce ONLY cared about who could draw the most, they wouldn’t bother signing guys who are legitimate fighters and would have Canseco, Walker and Epic Beard Man on every card.
"It would appear that the strain was more than he could bear".- Doc Holliday
by MyFistYourFace on Mar 2, 2010 6:20 PM EST up reply actions
Can someone wake me up right before Fedor's next fight starts?
Reminds me of the Rogers fight. There were countless articles about the Barnett debacle and what Fedor would do next. I poured over all of them. Finally, November came, and Fedor was on CBS. My gf was watching with me until the Shields/Miller fight, which caused her to fall asleep. When Fedor was about to fight I said “Wake up. Fedor’s about to fight!” She managed maybe 3 seconds with her eyes open. I wish I could sleep through all of the speculation/deal-making BS and wake up for the fight.
by MMAInFeRioRiTy on Mar 2, 2010 4:05 PM EST reply actions
I think the reason M-1 doesn't want Fedor to fight Overeem
is becasue they are the same person.
Overeem is actually just Fedor in a shaved gorilla suit.
MMA really IS just a job for Fedor and the joke is on the fans and Coker for thinking otherwise. I am disappointed by direction this nonsense is heading. I guess this is the other extreme of having the power in the hands of the fighter as opposed to organization. Right now as a fan I feel the structure and stability of the UFC vs the chaos of an element like M-1 is a better way to go. I’ve just lost a lot of respect for Fedor, I don’t think this helps his brand and it doesn’t reflect well on SF, which I really want to do well.
The options are endless...
But everyone of them thus far, do not appeal to me..
Reason being, none of them are for the betterment of the promotion itself. Fight fans are just thirsty for fights with their fighters. Understandable.. However, SF needs some serious structuring, balance, and organizational over-hauls at this point.
Nothing about SF is screaming “legitimate.” Their slapped in the face by the fighters they employ. They have Champions that don’t fight, and will only fight on “their” terms. They have the #1 consensus HW fighter in MMA and can’t get him to their belt to take advantage of their opportunity..
SF should grow some balls and strip AO of his title if he can’t or wont defend it against Fedor. Give Fedor his rightful shot to claim the title and pit him against another contender in line. If they’re planning is to resolve around a PPV end result, they’re going to sink just as fast as all the others..
Barnett is not a fight that matters at this point. Fedor is in SF, Barnett in DREAM.. Co-promotion doesn’t work in this case because it’s about a linear title and how to legitimize the company overall by having the best fight the best to determine rightful ownership..
My main point is this.. If AO or Fedor won’t fight each other for what ever reason, why spend the money to have them in the first place ? Someone or somewhere in this equation SF needs to take control and make this work itself out in “their” best interest, otherwise they have opened the flood gates to their demise like the companies previous that allowed the fighters to dictate the end result.. If neither of them want to fight as assigned… drop them and move on.. it’s that simple.. The promotion needs to be bigger than the fighter.. That’s why the UFC brand has become so successful. Like it or not, the brand should be bigger than the employee..
NBA, NFL, NHL, MLB, NCAA, etc.. all are bigger than the stars that accompany those brands..
8-29-09
Keith Jardine is now known as "The Dean of Antihistamine" because he is always sleeping early in fights..
I for one hate what's going on right now.
I’ll luv to watch fedor fight in japan but it shouldn’t be against Barnett. He is a let down to the sport letting him fight Fedor would be a disappointment. He had his chance and fucked it up.
J mackin Roe 623
by JRO623 on Mar 2, 2010 4:25 PM EST via mobile reply actions
I for one hate what's going on right now.
I’d luv to watch fedor fight in japan but it shouldn’t be against Barnett. He is a let down to the sport letting him fight Fedor would be a disappointment. He had his chance and fucked it up.
J mackin Roe 623
by JRO623 on Mar 2, 2010 4:25 PM EST via mobile reply actions
I'm losing faith
I was excited about Fedor as well as Strikeforce. I just think that the guy fighting once every 10 months isn’t going to help SF, and I don’t think that SF will be able to build an audience by fighting on CBS once every 6 months. In order to compete with the UFC I believe they need to be on TV at LEAST once a month. I don’t mean Showtime, either, since so few people even have that.
While so far he has proven me wrong several times, I do believe that his management knew his fighting in the UFC would not have been a good move for his career. Money aside, in SF he fights Brett Rogers, maybe Arlovski again, then an overrated Overeem…then who? In the UFC, he has Mir, Nog, three or four others who are more than capable of beating him, and not to mention Brock, who I believe would mop the floor with him, to be honest.
I’d love him to prove me wrong on that because I really like him as a person AND a fighter. I just think he might be too small for the HW division in the UFC, and a man that is great at 233lb fighting a man who is great at 280lb of muscle like Lesnar…well…like Bas Rutten once said… ‘In fighting, size does matter if the two guys are equally skilled.’.
If I were Strikeforce I may conside cutting Fedor lose at this point. He has too much baggage.
Keep firing Assholes!
Blackout is always right
by Ubernoober on Mar 2, 2010 6:10 PM EST reply actions 2 recs
This might
be the most intelligent post in BE history.
I Hope So!!!
Fedor vs Barnett would be an epic superfight that should have happen in Pride. We’ll finally see the #1 HW vs #2 HW.
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