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UFC on Versus Preview: Can Brandon Vera Return to Form Against the Powerful Jon Jones?

Vera_vs_jones_medium In the UFC on Versus I main event, light heavyweights Brandon "The Truth" Vera (11-4, 7-4 UFC) and Jon "Bones" Jones (9-1, 3-1 UFC) will collide in a match-up that fits a battle we see in the spectrum of professional sports quite often. The bout featuring the young, rising prospect taking on the battle-tested veteran who is trying to scratch his way back into relevancy.

Vera will be looking to back up the years of hype he's spat at his critics by testing the 22-year-old Jones, a fighter who has showed impressive wrestling, strength, and explosiveness in his four-fight career in the UFC. It should be a tough challenge  for both fighters, but most fans are leaning toward the much more successful fighter in Jones in this fight.

Why have fans changed their minds about Brandon Vera? Vera's poor record following his return to the UFC nearly four years ago is probably the main reason, but even in his victories -- his peformances weren't exactly impressive. A drained Vera defeated former IFL fighter Reese Andy in a lackluster performance that was partially blamed on the weight cut to 205 pounds, but other fans will point to his loss against Keith Jardine as a sure sign that Vera won't return to top form. Vera showed promise against Couture at UFC 105, but he was unable to deal with Couture's vaunted Greco-Roman clinch game.

Unfortunately for Vera, he may have to deal with that type of power once again as Jones is well-known for tossing opponents around the cage by using his own brand of Greco-Roman techniques. His style of wrestling and ability to shift weight instantly has been successfully in putting opponents in bad positions on the ground, and Vera could be the next victim.

Vera should hold the advantage in the striking department as he has a very formidable Muay Thai background, strong body and leg kicks, and decent boxing. Jones has some reach and unpredictability in his striking, but he's left himself open to counters. He has also lacked the long-term conditioning to last for three rounds, something that was evident in his match-up with Stephan Bonnar at UFC 94. If Vera can withstand the early onslaught, he might just be the more precise striker to really hurt Jones late.

Jones should hold the advantage on the ground with his wrestling abilities and strength, but Vera has stated he'll be a submission threat on the ground from now on. Vera isn't historically known as a phenom in the submission game, but he is a competent enough grappler to be a danger when he looks for submissions. That doesn't happen very often, but a change in his thinking could change that.

Ufc_on_versus_button_medium

Star-divide

Overall, I think this might turn into a striking battle on the feet in the early portions of the fight, but eventually -- Jones will want to manhandle Vera on the floor and use his strength to gain a dominant position and punch Vera out. Can he do that? Only Fabricio Werdum has successfully TKO'd Brandon Vera, so it isn't an impossible feat. If Jones can do so, he'll vault himself into the upper-echelon of the division at only 22 years of age. An impressive feat.

For me, I can't pick Brandon Vera here. He needs to prove that he still has what it takes to compete against the best in this division, and he's been absolute garbage in comparison to what he brought to the table four years ago. Even in his victories, I shrug my shoulders at how lackluster some of the vwins have been.

I'm going with the younger, stronger Jon Jones. While I think Vera can win with his dynamic striking ability, he'll need to prove he still has the tools to win. Jones is an absolute load who has explosiveness and unpredictability all on his side. I hope Vera can make this competitive, but I'm not holding out too much hope. Jones should take it to Vera on Sunday night.

Poll
Who wins the UFC on Versus I main event?
Brandon Vera
570 votes
Jon Jones
1188 votes

1758 votes | Poll has closed

Comment 123 comments  |  0 recs  | 

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i dont see vera winning

they’re setting jones up to be a future star of the division and frankly i think matt hammill was a tougher fighter and more of a test (although much less of a name) than brandon vera is gonna be

i have jones by complete domination

by milk72 on Mar 19, 2010 3:03 PM EDT reply actions  

At this point, I’m just hoping Vera makes this fight competitive and exciting win or lose. It’s difficult to judge a fighter’s potential when they haven’t been pushed yet, and Vera could push Jones. Will he? We’ll see.

Without pain, without sacrifice, we would have nothing.

by lowellthehammer on Mar 19, 2010 3:06 PM EDT reply actions  

My only real concern is Jones’ talk that he’ll stand with Vera. Jones is a very strong athlete, but his striking, as dynamic as it can be, isn’t overwhelming. Bonnar was able to stand toe-to-toe and land some solid blows late in their fight. I imagine Vera has a bit more mustard than Bonnar does.

Follow me on Twitter @lelandroling
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein

by Leland Roling on Mar 19, 2010 3:11 PM EDT up reply actions  

If he really wants to test out his striking, I think he’d probably be better off doing it in the second after throwing Vera around in the first. He’d still be relatively fresh, and Vera would be disheartened and beaten up. I don’t think Firas would let Jones go out in the first and just try to strike with Vera, as that sounds like a recipe for disaster.

Without pain, without sacrifice, we would have nothing.

by lowellthehammer on Mar 19, 2010 3:21 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yeah, but he tired himself out doing that against Bonnar, and Bonnar took advantage. Bonnar just wasn’t good enough to bomb him, Vera has the potential to do so.

Follow me on Twitter @lelandroling
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein

by Leland Roling on Mar 19, 2010 3:29 PM EDT up reply actions  

Good point.

I just wonder if Vera has the heart to keep fighting if Jones is beating the hell out of him. Bonnar made his name on being a well conditioned guy with a lot of heart, but Vera strikes me as more of a momentum fighter. If Jones can gain the upper hand in the first it might all be downhill from there.

Without pain, without sacrifice, we would have nothing.

by lowellthehammer on Mar 19, 2010 3:39 PM EDT up reply actions  

Well, to be honest… I think Jones has had the time to improve. If can throw Vera around, get in an advantageous position on the ground… he could pound Vera into unconsciousness. I just don’t see Vera winning, but as I said in the preview — prove it to me, Vera.

Follow me on Twitter @lelandroling
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein

by Leland Roling on Mar 19, 2010 3:57 PM EDT up reply actions  

Agreed. My only counter to that would be that UFC 94 was 13 months ago, and Jones has certainly had time to improve since then, just because he’s so young (still), and also because he’s now working with great trainers in multiple disciplines. His sparring sessions have to be better now as well.

I want to see Jones strike a bit, but if the distance closes and clinch opportunities present themselves, I think Jones should take Vera down and see what damage he can do with GNP. The more diverse he is, the better the chance of beating Vera.

by Hardcharger on Mar 19, 2010 3:23 PM EDT up reply actions  

True

If Vera lands, Jones’ll have to catch up.

I’m a comic genius.

by INGO B on Mar 19, 2010 7:11 PM EDT up reply actions  

The only advantage Jones really has is in creativity. I know he’s planning on “opening up” his striking game tomorrow, but doing so against a striker whos as technical and accomplished as Vera is may be a mistake. Im going with Vera by TKO late in the 2nd.

Your style's like garbage cans meant to be taken out on a weekly basis
Ever since your first record you've been in a state of suspended animation
You look like Snuffleuffagus and Australopithecus
Me cray, you abacus

by ProfessorBLove on Mar 19, 2010 3:10 PM EDT reply actions  

Creativity...and strength, and wrestling ability.

Jones could easily grab ahold of Vera, fling him over his head, and TKO him with GnP. Also, something tells me that if Vera couldn’t finish Andy, Jardine, or Soszynski, he’s not going to be finishing Jones within the distance either.

Without pain, without sacrifice, we would have nothing.

by lowellthehammer on Mar 19, 2010 3:24 PM EDT up reply actions  

I think Veras wrestling ability is more than strong enough to keep from being tossed around. He got put on his ass a few times against Randy, but he held his own.

Your style's like garbage cans meant to be taken out on a weekly basis
Ever since your first record you've been in a state of suspended animation
You look like Snuffleuffagus and Australopithecus
Me cray, you abacus

by ProfessorBLove on Mar 19, 2010 3:43 PM EDT up reply actions  

This.

I think Vera’s a talented fighter, but Hamill’s a damn good wrestler too, and Jones didn’t have much trouble dumping Hamill so hard that he dislocated Hamill’s shoulder.

by Verklemptomaniac on Mar 19, 2010 3:49 PM EDT up reply actions  

Matt Hamill is a monster himself when it comes to wrestling. He’s abnormally strong, and is overall just a brute. People close to him said after that fight that they’ve never seen anyone at anytime handle Matt like Jon Jones did, and it was startling to them to watch that go down.

by Hardcharger on Mar 19, 2010 3:51 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yep. That slam was epic.

It showed more about what Jones can do than the six slams he did vs Bonnar.

by truck on Mar 19, 2010 3:55 PM EDT up reply actions  

The thing with Hamill though is that he is not a Greco-Roman wrestler. There is a difference. Vera, on the other hand, has a Greco-Roman wrestling background. I don’t know if it will be enough to stop Jones’ takedowns or not though.
My issue with the thoughts on this fight is that MMA fans are so accustomed to seeing Jones do crazy throws or slams, and wild spinning moves that these same fans expect him to be able to do them in every fight. I really wonder if Jones will be able to fling Vera over his head. Don’t get me wrong because I am a fan of Jones, but I want to try to stay more realistic here.

by chrisbboy82 on Mar 19, 2010 8:31 PM EDT up reply actions  

Couture's game isn't flinging around

Randy was trying to grind him down. Jones would be trying to explosively take him down. Very different things.

by Trysdor on Mar 19, 2010 3:48 PM EDT up reply actions  

I don’t think it is, to be honest.

Follow me on Twitter @lelandroling
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein

by Leland Roling on Mar 19, 2010 3:58 PM EDT up reply actions  

If he is getting caught in the striking, he won't continue banging his head against the wall.

He will switch it up an use his wrestling as needed. He has always used his striking to set up his wrestling and vice versa though, so don’t expect that to change.

by truck on Mar 19, 2010 3:44 PM EDT up reply actions  

Are fans really so zealous as to let some judges effect the way they feel about a fighter?

Vera beat Jardine — I saw it and Compstrike/fightmetric saw it.
Vera beat couture — again myself and the best objective fight measuring tools

As for ‘Vera not being able to deal with Couture’s clinch game’, you, leland, might have been the only one to see that.

Faber, Florian, Nick Diaz, 'Mayhem', Mousasi, Fedor

by mma_dude on Mar 19, 2010 3:24 PM EDT reply actions  

He couldn’t stop Couture from running him up against the fence, which doesn’t bode well against a bigger, stronger, and younger Greco guy with impressive clinch trips and throws.

Without pain, without sacrifice, we would have nothing.

by lowellthehammer on Mar 19, 2010 3:28 PM EDT up reply actions  

he completely neutralized couture’s ‘dirty boxing’ + he was able to push couture up against the fence (something you rarely see) and land some dirty boxing of his own = Vera outwrestled couture

Faber, Florian, Nick Diaz, 'Mayhem', Mousasi, Fedor

by mma_dude on Mar 19, 2010 3:30 PM EDT up reply actions  

He didn’t completely neutralize Couture’s dirty boxing, although I’ll give you that he did get Couture down and stood back up quickly when he got taken down. My point is that if Couture could grab a clinch so easily against Vera, Jones likely will too and from there he has a variety of trips and throws at his disposal that Couture hasn’t shown. If Jones can grab a clinch, Vera is likely going to the mat.

Without pain, without sacrifice, we would have nothing.

by lowellthehammer on Mar 19, 2010 3:34 PM EDT up reply actions  

I disagree.

Couture won it in the 3rd. Vera got schooled in the wrestling and it killed him. The one time he hurt him he did absolutely nothing.

"BANG!" - Jim Lampley's first word as a child

by SSreporters on Mar 19, 2010 4:20 PM EDT up reply actions  

Absolutely nothing after he hurt him it should say

Brandon had every chance to adjust and get out of the greco-roman clinch and he just willingly let Couture do it.

"BANG!" - Jim Lampley's first word as a child

by SSreporters on Mar 19, 2010 4:26 PM EDT up reply actions  

He didn’t get schooled in the wrestling, Vera took him down in the third and stopped multiple takedowns from Couture. Even when he got taken down he stood up immediately.

Without pain, without sacrifice, we would have nothing.

by lowellthehammer on Mar 19, 2010 4:30 PM EDT up reply actions  

one of the reason’s why I’m loving this fight is to see what jones can do. Vera doesn’t shy away from a clinch fight — and after seeing how he neutralized couture, I can understand why. It is possible that Jones brings something more spectacular, but I honestly haven’t seen that yet — I don’t think you can use bonnar and Hammill as examples of what jones can do to Vera.

Also, why are people saying that because Couture was able to initiate a clinch fight (and doing no damage with it), he deserved to win that fight.

Faber, Florian, Nick Diaz, 'Mayhem', Mousasi, Fedor

by mma_dude on Mar 19, 2010 4:35 PM EDT up reply actions  

Not Bonnar, but you can use what Jones did to Hamill and come away pretty amazed at what Jones was able to do. Hamill is a very good, experienced wrestler and is incredibly strong, and Jones threw him like it was nothing.

by Hardcharger on Mar 19, 2010 4:39 PM EDT up reply actions  

Hammill is a different style of wrestler than Jones/Vera. Not as well versed in clinch fighting. Vera will not let Jones get the same positioning. Or at least Vera will know how and when to get out of a throwing position — whether or not he can will be determined.

Faber, Florian, Nick Diaz, 'Mayhem', Mousasi, Fedor

by mma_dude on Mar 19, 2010 4:50 PM EDT up reply actions  

How did you determine that Hamill wasn’t as well versed? Both Jones and Hamill wrestled folkstyle in college/JUCO. Vera did too until he left ODU. Vera got some type of greco experience after that, and Jones is obviously adept at throws, but that doesn’t mean Hamill doesn’t know how to defend wrestling throws. He’s a very good wrestler who is no stranger to those posiitions. He just got manhandled by a freakish athlete.

by Hardcharger on Mar 19, 2010 5:03 PM EDT up reply actions  

I didn’t know that Hamill studied greco roman wrestling and muay thai. If you’re saying that he has, then I would just say that he doesn’t really show too much of it in the fights I’ve seen him in. I don’t remember seeing him use a thai plum, or engage in any effective clinch fighting.

Faber, Florian, Nick Diaz, 'Mayhem', Mousasi, Fedor

by mma_dude on Mar 19, 2010 5:18 PM EDT up reply actions  

All I stated was that Hamill is a very experienced wrestler, and is not stranger to clinch positions or the throws used by Jon Jones. Hamill, like Jones, competed in folkstyle wrestling in college.

I have no idea how much Hamill trains MT, but I would imagine some. That’s not going to keep him from getting tossed by a guy like Jones, but 20+ years of wrestling usually helps.

by Hardcharger on Mar 19, 2010 5:24 PM EDT up reply actions  

If I had to make a decision on that fight, I'd call it Vera

But I saw it as a draw. Regardless of what you think about that fight though, you have to agree that Jones is younger and more explosive with his throws/trips than Couture is, and if era allows Jones to get ahold of him the same way he let Couture he’ll be in for a rough night.

Without pain, without sacrifice, we would have nothing.

by lowellthehammer on Mar 19, 2010 4:40 PM EDT up reply actions  

I can see a draw, but the difference for me was the "aggression"

…or as they score it in Japan “intent to finish”. Couture reminded me of Ken Flo against Penn. Doing his best to neutralize ans survive. Very did much more attacking and damage. Scoring was fairly close.

by truck on Mar 19, 2010 4:43 PM EDT up reply actions  

actually damage delivered is the most important measurement in fightmetric.

Faber, Florian, Nick Diaz, 'Mayhem', Mousasi, Fedor

by mma_dude on Mar 19, 2010 4:47 PM EDT up reply actions  

My comment had nothing to do with fight metric...

Damage and intent to finish should be the top priorities in scoring though…

by truck on Mar 19, 2010 4:53 PM EDT up reply actions  

Even if you wanted to change Vera’s official record and give him 2 split decision wins against Jardine and Couture, it wouldn’t change my opinion on this fight. Jon Jones would hurt both Couture and Jardine badly at this point in time. Vera hasn’t been putting people away. There’s always a chance he bucks the trend and puts away a careless Jones, but I don’t believe that’s how it will play out. Jones is extremely fast and has incredible explosive power, and is a tough matchup right now.

by Hardcharger on Mar 19, 2010 3:36 PM EDT up reply actions  

personally, I don’t need to see vera put anybody away. There’s is something beautiful about his style — the way he avoids damage, the way he moves from ortho to south, the way he throws strikes — this will be a good fight.

Faber, Florian, Nick Diaz, 'Mayhem', Mousasi, Fedor

by mma_dude on Mar 19, 2010 4:40 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

You won’t get any arguments from me on that. I certainly appreciate his style, and his skill. Being able to switch stances seamlessly is awesome to watch, and Vera does have skills in every area. I don’t dislike Vera at all. If he weren’t fighting a guy as fascinating and likeable as Jones, I’d be all-in rooting for Vera. And if Vera does win, it won’t shock me, and will show that he’s ready to be a top contender for the LHW belt.

by Hardcharger on Mar 19, 2010 4:43 PM EDT up reply actions  

His style sort of rubs me the wrong way. It’s like he’s constipated and can’t take a shit… i.e. he never unleashes his fury and hesitates constantly.

Follow me on Twitter @lelandroling
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein

by Leland Roling on Mar 19, 2010 4:45 PM EDT up reply actions  

maybe that’s why you saw couture kick his ass

Faber, Florian, Nick Diaz, 'Mayhem', Mousasi, Fedor

by mma_dude on Mar 19, 2010 4:54 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yeah, because that’s exactly how I said it went. Give me a break.

Follow me on Twitter @lelandroling
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein

by Leland Roling on Mar 19, 2010 5:02 PM EDT up reply actions  

calm down...lol

you said, “he was unable to deal with Couture’s vaunted Greco-Roman clinch game”

Do you want to take that back?

Faber, Florian, Nick Diaz, 'Mayhem', Mousasi, Fedor

by mma_dude on Mar 19, 2010 5:05 PM EDT up reply actions  

Classic strawman.

"BANG!" - Jim Lampley's first word as a child

by SSreporters on Mar 19, 2010 7:10 PM EDT up reply actions  

You’ll get a rec for that.

by dancingChicken on Mar 19, 2010 4:50 PM EDT up reply actions  

Watching the fights is what affects how I feel about a fighter. Compstrike/fightmetric are tools to use in evaluating a fight, not fight evaluations themselves. Apart from the wins and losses, both those fights were just draws to me, draws in which Vera showed very little of his renewed, bang it out, badass intentions. Nobody thought he got owned in those fights. Also no one thought he looked all that great. He’s not going to handle Jones in the clinch, and he’s gonna go for a few rides. He may also manage to sub Jon, or catch him pulling something crazy out. But I have zero faith that Brandon is going to look improved from his last few fights, and 100% faith that Jon Jones has improved immensely. The guy is young, learns extremely fast and was basically self taught at the time of the Bonnar fight. After a year with the Team Jackson coalition, I think he’s going to have improved his defense standing, and that’s probably all he needs to beat Vera pretty decisively.

by Kwisatz Haderach on Mar 19, 2010 4:17 PM EDT up reply actions  

In working with FightMetric’s data and trying to formulate stats, one problem is that we don’t have any way of determining where a fight took place and for how long. Therefore, positional battles on the floor have to be soaked in through viewership of the fight alone. The stats won’t actually tell you that. That’s why I think evaluating a fight by viewing it is way more effective obviously than those stats.

Follow me on Twitter @lelandroling
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein

by Leland Roling on Mar 19, 2010 4:19 PM EDT up reply actions  

Exactly. They’re nice to have for sure, but you can’t see positional dominance, control, or just the flow of a fight. You can have 10 5- foot guys in a room with 10 7-footers, and the data by itself will convince you that everyone’s 6 feet. Stats are great, but they’re only plot point models of reality.

by Kwisatz Haderach on Mar 19, 2010 4:23 PM EDT up reply actions  

Well, stats will likely be compiled that help us formulate that type of data. The problem is gaining all that data on a per fight basis. It’ll be tough and lengthy to gain.

Right now, takedown data looks bad for some fighters who are successful. Mainly because you can gain a takedown, and stay in that position for the entire round, yet you’ll only have one takedown. There isn’t anything telling us a fighter was in that position for 5 minutes.

Follow me on Twitter @lelandroling
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein

by Leland Roling on Mar 19, 2010 4:30 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yeah, I don’t know how you assign points to it. But time in a dominant position should be scored somehow. It’s just complicated. If you’re getting points for time in dominance, do you still get additional points for executing that dominance via takedowns, sweeps, sub attempts, mount, etc? Interesting to see how this is approached…

by Kwisatz Haderach on Mar 19, 2010 4:36 PM EDT up reply actions  

Well, points could be calculated for the strikes. Actual position in dominance is up for debate, and it’s tough to judge becomes it comes down to each judge’s philosophy on exactly how they score it, which sucks.

I think it should ultimately be scored for the aggressor in terms of either escaping or aggressively transitioning to better positions. If the fighter advancing is held up or reversed and both men are making efforts and doing well against each other in the floor… it should cancel.

Follow me on Twitter @lelandroling
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein

by Leland Roling on Mar 19, 2010 4:41 PM EDT up reply actions  

what you’re describing here is almost exactly how fightmetric calculates the fighter effectiveness

Faber, Florian, Nick Diaz, 'Mayhem', Mousasi, Fedor

by mma_dude on Mar 19, 2010 5:01 PM EDT up reply actions  

We’re talking about positional dominance and time in position. Time in position isn’t calculated. It’s also a stat that would allow us to move forward with meaningful statistics in the future, but for now — we don’t have that luxury.

Follow me on Twitter @lelandroling
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein

by Leland Roling on Mar 19, 2010 7:28 PM EDT up reply actions  

Time in position isn’t calculated — nor should it be. However, a ‘dominant position’ should be defined as a position that leads to delivering damage — so, if it TRULY is a DOMINANT position, the damage will be calculated.

Faber, Florian, Nick Diaz, 'Mayhem', Mousasi, Fedor

by mma_dude on Mar 19, 2010 8:06 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

Exactly....

All these guys think John Jones is the biggest thing coming….. granted hes good and has massive potential but hes not winning this one. Vera is a vet, has lost the last couple fights, and is SUPER hungry. He is gonna bring it and catch Jones when Jones is being flashy. You wait. Mark my words! Vera 2nd round KO. Whoomp there it is.

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by DJ Pullout on Mar 19, 2010 3:36 PM EDT up reply actions  

i just dont see it happening

we know exactly what vera is a good striker with a solid skill set who never really puts it all together, good but nothing spectacular

bones jones looks like the next star of the lhw division hes already ran through proven vets with little to no trouble and hes only 22 years old

a good punch to the face might completely expose jones and show hes not all hes hyped up to be but i doubt it veras being set up to lose here and i think he’ll lose in a impressive fashion

by milk72 on Mar 19, 2010 3:40 PM EDT up reply actions  

The last 4-5 Vera fights have all been the same question.

“Can he return to form?”

I’m afraid he’s shown his consistency in his new form by being lackluster and failing to achieve anything worthwhile in terms of becoming a contender.

It would not be a return to form but a return to inconsistency at this point.

by DirtyML on Mar 19, 2010 3:39 PM EDT reply actions   1 recs

Vera, (t)KO (if he avoids clinch).

by dancingChicken on Mar 19, 2010 3:41 PM EDT reply actions  

Vera has only one tko (leg kick) since 2006...

Those fights included Mike Patt, Krzysztof Soszynski and Reese Andy who aren’t know as worl beaters. He also fought Jardine who has been KO’d in 3 of his last 5 fights…

by truck on Mar 19, 2010 3:52 PM EDT up reply actions  

So what?

Is this some kind of advanced MMAth?

by dancingChicken on Mar 19, 2010 3:54 PM EDT up reply actions  

So that means that he will never KO anyone?

by dancingChicken on Mar 19, 2010 4:01 PM EDT up reply actions  

No, but I think the chances are relatively low...

Just like when Stephan Bonner or Forest Griffin fight… You know neither of then is likely to KO anybody…

by truck on Mar 19, 2010 4:03 PM EDT up reply actions  

It sounds like you’re looking for universals, and we all know in MMA that those don’t exist.

But if we look at recent trends of each guy, some definite themes can be seen. Vera can win this fight. He could even win by KO. But based on what I’ve seen, if Vera wins, he’ll have to take a decision. OTOH, I wouldn’t be shocked if Jon Jones came out and looked amazing and ended up pounding out Vera for a TKO.

by Hardcharger on Mar 19, 2010 4:04 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yeah this fight will define the Jones hype train and if he will be 1-2 fights from a title shot or the gatekeeper for the next 1-2 years.

by DirtyML on Mar 19, 2010 4:07 PM EDT up reply actions  

I’m not looking for universals.
Let’s say it’s UFC 94, Machida fights Thiago Silva. I say: Machida by KO, you say…?

by dancingChicken on Mar 19, 2010 4:16 PM EDT up reply actions  

I said at the time Machida by decision.

Like I said, there aren’t universals, but you have to base your analysis on recent trends from each guy. The recent trends to me seem to say Jones is the pick, but it’s not a 100% lock. At UFC 94, I was at least thinking Machida would win, but had the method incorrect.

by Hardcharger on Mar 19, 2010 4:32 PM EDT up reply actions  

So what you’re trying to say is that I can’t predict KO, because your “data” says otherwise?

by dancingChicken on Mar 19, 2010 4:47 PM EDT up reply actions  

You can predict anything you want, at any time.

I can predict it is going to rain fish from the sky tonight… It probably wouldn’t be wise though. ‘Data’ shows that isn’t likely to happen.

by truck on Mar 19, 2010 4:50 PM EDT up reply actions  

Show me the “data”.

by dancingChicken on Mar 19, 2010 4:52 PM EDT up reply actions  

Why not? If you’re adducing on data, I want to see it.

by dancingChicken on Mar 19, 2010 4:56 PM EDT up reply actions  

In Lajamanu, Australia it happens about once every ten years...
On the other side of the world, at the end of February, it rained fish in Lajamanu, Australia. Located in the desert hundreds of miles from any open source of water, villagers saw Perch fingerlings rain from the sky for 2 days. This small community has now had fish rains on three separate occasions over a 30 year period. Residents are not used to the rare event, often feeling as if they have gone crazy when it does rain fish. One resident and eye witness, Mrs. Balmer, told NT News

http://www.digitaljournal.com/article/289134

by truck on Mar 19, 2010 5:00 PM EDT up reply actions  

Would you base your prediction on that article?

Do you know why fish rains happen? Where they happen, when they happen? If yes, then you can say that that your opinion is based on some kind of data. But if you live in Berlin and say that it won’t rain fish because you have an article, according to which it happens once every ten years in Australia, then it doesn’t mean nothing.

Yeah, there are outcomes of the fights, opponents, but there are also skills, stories of the fight, match ups. People have different perception, one sees fighter A as a winner, the other thinks that fighter B won.
 I’m not basing my prediction on data, neither are you. It’s subjective.

by dancingChicken on Mar 19, 2010 5:44 PM EDT up reply actions  

I think you are being ridiculous, but I should have stopped worrying about it when you asked for data to prove fish were not likely to fall from the sky

by castleeb on Mar 19, 2010 8:31 PM EDT up reply actions  

Little distance and sense of humour doesn’t hurt…

by dancingChicken on Mar 19, 2010 8:33 PM EDT up reply actions  

Oh no, wait, I forgot, this is Internet.

by dancingChicken on Mar 19, 2010 8:34 PM EDT up reply actions  

Lmao at the posts turning to raining fish as an argument. Well done guys.

I am. I think. I will. - Ayn Rand

by vivero on Mar 19, 2010 10:31 PM EDT up reply actions  

WTF are you talking about? Are you purposefully looking to be a dick? You can predict anything you want, as can truck. Nobody knows for sure what the result will be, and ther are no universals.

However, the point was that if you look at actual recent evidence, a strong case can be made for it not being likely that Vera gets a KO. Nothing more, nothing less.

by Hardcharger on Mar 19, 2010 5:00 PM EDT up reply actions  

I think this is a likely fight for Vera to deliver a KO. Vera hasn’t fought any body recently as aggressive as Jones in the stand up. Jones’s aggression will have to be countered with aggression — I don’t see Jones allowing Vera to be overly analytical in this fight. Jones is gonna push it, move in, and receive a machine gun of right left straight punches.

Faber, Florian, Nick Diaz, 'Mayhem', Mousasi, Fedor

by mma_dude on Mar 19, 2010 5:12 PM EDT up reply actions  

Vera hasn’t fought any body recently as aggressive as Jones in the stand up

Krzysztof Soszynski and Keith Jardine are both more agressive strikers than Jones.

I think Jones is generally fairly patient with his striking. He throws a lot of leg kicks and uses his length. The highlight reel spinning attacks don’t come until he has gotten comfortable with the other fighter, or is ready to use feints to set them up.

by truck on Mar 19, 2010 5:18 PM EDT up reply actions  

ok, so...

once jones gets comfortable, THEN Vera will knock him out.

Faber, Florian, Nick Diaz, 'Mayhem', Mousasi, Fedor

by mma_dude on Mar 19, 2010 5:21 PM EDT up reply actions  

I think a lot of Jones striking skill and style remains to be seen. So far, I think he’s been a patient striker who utilizes jabs and kicks mostly. But he has eaten shots on the feet.

This is at best the 2nd full camp Jones has had with Team Jackson, and the first that I know where he spent some time with Phil Nurse. I think Jones has the potential to come out extremely improved from what we’ve seen in the past.

by Hardcharger on Mar 19, 2010 5:29 PM EDT up reply actions  

This is where I’m at as well. In a sense this is a pretty well matched fight. But Brandon Vera is what he is, and I expect Jon to be much improved technically in every area. We hardly got to see much against Hamill, as they were really just feeling each other out until Jon smashed Hamill to the mat. Jon already strikes me as a very calm, quick thinking guy, who won’t be nervous or thrown if Vera starts off well. Whereas with Vera, there always seems to be some hesitancy, a lack of reaction time, that I expect Jon to take full advantage of. Randy, Keith and K-Sos are all fairly slow, methodical guys, and Brandon couldn’t take much advantage of that. But we’ll see what’s what Sunday. I’m glad it’s close. I’m as excited for this fight as for anything on 111 or 112.

by Kwisatz Haderach on Mar 19, 2010 5:56 PM EDT up reply actions  

Sorry if I’m a dick. Your evidence doesn’t mean much, but you act like you did some kind of scientific research.

by dancingChicken on Mar 19, 2010 5:46 PM EDT up reply actions  

Picking winners in the fight game is never a science. However the amount of (t)ko’s a figher collects in his previous fights is solid evidence on how he will tend to fight in the future.

If you are so sold on a total lack of statistical observation, and you believe everything is a mere roll of the die, perhaps you should bet on Maia to ko A Silva. You could make a fortune.

by castleeb on Mar 19, 2010 8:35 PM EDT up reply actions  

Again, a little distance…
I’m assuming that I’m speaking to a thinking person, so I wont have to get involved into ad absurdum arguments.

by dancingChicken on Mar 19, 2010 8:39 PM EDT up reply actions  

Not really, but feel free to characterize it as such if it makes your predictions seem better. You tried to make this some philosophical discussion on what was possible, while other were giving their best predictions based on observing each fighter’s performance recently. It’s not foolproof, but it’s not picking randomly either.

by Hardcharger on Mar 19, 2010 11:42 PM EDT up reply actions  

To make things short. I know that there is a pattern of Vera’s recent performances. I’ not neglecting that. But there’s also content of time he spent in the octagon. It’s obvious that KO is not the first option that comes to my mind when I visualize ending of this fight. I’ve never wrote that based on my calculations there’s a big chance that Vera’s gonna knock out JJ. It’s risky, I know. People sometimes make risky predictions, but it’s not the reason to jump out with some obvious facts and claim that it’s a statistical observation.
Either way, I’ m off, enjoy the fights.

by dancingChicken on Mar 20, 2010 6:53 AM EDT up reply actions  

Jones by UD, don’t see him finishing Vera, but I see him being smart enough to neutralize him, he neutralized Hamill relatively easily and Hamill has a lot better wrestling.

Vera is going to provide what exactly? His striking is technically sufficient but he has no tenacity and does not really seem to give a shit if he wins at this point.

He won’t take him down, the odds of him submitting Jon is very low and the odds of him actually pressing the attack while striking is also very low.

Hard to picture any scenario where he has an effective gameplan to win, maybe he will KO Jon since he has not fought many great strikers, but I will not hinge my bets on a freak KO.

by DirtyML on Mar 19, 2010 3:42 PM EDT reply actions  

First time going to a UFC fight! What time should I go? Doors open at 3pm. Fights start at 4pm and televised fights starts at 7pm. 5pm sound good?

by lalov1 on Mar 19, 2010 4:00 PM EDT reply actions  

you should definitely go for the prelims because there are some good ones. The first fight will probably start at about 4pm.

by Nick Thomas on Mar 19, 2010 4:08 PM EDT up reply actions  

I’d go before 3pm… soak it all in. Give you time to find your seats, buy some merchandise, etc.

by Nick Thomas on Mar 19, 2010 4:08 PM EDT up reply actions  

i'm on anton and fishbob's side for this one.

I’m also taking Gonzaga, just a sucker for those two

by Austin Martin on Mar 19, 2010 4:42 PM EDT reply actions  

add me to the suckers list. Gonzaga and Vera are notorious fighters w/ tons of potential and not able to deliver. I don’t know, I keep rooting for them. I guess I keep waiting for the time that they can actually bring it and make it to the top. Funny, Couture and Werdum destroyed both of these guys credibility. It would really make my day if they actually win their respective fights.

I am. I think. I will. - Ayn Rand

by vivero on Mar 19, 2010 10:36 PM EDT up reply actions  

I am amazed at how much the hype is warping many people’s perception of Jon Jones and the likely outcome of the fight against Vera.

Let’s look at past performances to try and eliminate some of the tendency to over-exaggerate. Jones’ last four opponents (Gusmao, Bonnar, O’ Brien, Hammil) are either out of the UFC, on their way out, or at best mid-tier. While two of them are good freestyle wrestlers, none of them have any greco-roman background. None of them are better than average strikers.

Brandon Vera’s last four opponents (Jardine, Patt, Sozy, Couture) are as a whole significantly higher quality than those of Jones’ opponents. Jardine (and maybe Sozy) is a better striker than any of Jones’ opponents and Couture is an immensely better greco roman wrestler and overall fighter than any of Jones’ opponents.

While Vera has a history of not being able to put everything together to dominate opponents, he has never been even close to dominated since moving down to LHW.

I partially blame much of the hype on 1 throw. Jones’ throw on Hammil was impressive, yet the ground and pound that followed was more a reflection of the fact that Hammil had a broken shoulder/shoulder blade than the ground skills of Jon Jones. Aside from this one occurrence, Jones won DECISIONS against the likes of Andre Gusmao, Stephan Bonnar and submitted Jake O’Brien. This resume is hardly indicative of him steamrolling Brandon Vera.

Based on their past performances, I predict a close fight that goes to a decision. If the fight ends early it is likely to be Vera finishing Jones.

by Niles on Mar 19, 2010 5:14 PM EDT reply actions  

This is probably the most solid arguement I’ve read for Vera on this fight. While i still tend to feel that Jones will win, it is because of the progress he showed, and because he had to grow to beat Vera. Just as you say, this is a very good match up.

by castleeb on Mar 19, 2010 8:40 PM EDT up reply actions  

Jones takes this...

Vera’s been promising a return to form since breaking his hand in the Tim Sylvia fight, and failing to deliver every time.

by Hardcase on Mar 19, 2010 5:21 PM EDT reply actions  

No.

Keep firing Assholes!

Blackout is always right

by Ubernoober on Mar 19, 2010 5:24 PM EDT reply actions  

The only thing that Fishbob Vera does consistently is disappoint.

Keep firing Assholes!

Blackout is always right

by Ubernoober on Mar 19, 2010 5:35 PM EDT reply actions  

striking will be the key

what up everyone i am new to BE love the site can’t wait for this one, I really like both fighters and I wanted to mention 1 thing i noticed about the bonner fight was that jones seemed hesitant stand and bang with Bonner even though he was winning the fight he did want to chance getting caught trading with bonner because i really don’t think bonner can be hurt that guy is a beast, so smart thinking noted for jones there. i think that could be the case hear too but we may also see some drastically improved striking from Jones. I think we have to consider since jones is so young he has the ability to greatly improve in between fights…think cain/nog…and he is with yoda’s camp now right?

by Dr Tyronious on Mar 19, 2010 6:02 PM EDT reply actions  

Jones is with Team Jedi now.

Welcome to BE, we just have one question:

Are you Pro Fedor or Anti Fedor?

Keep firing Assholes!

Blackout is always right

by Ubernoober on Mar 19, 2010 6:14 PM EDT up reply actions  

That is perhaps the wisest answer.

New Orleans Saints - 2010 Super Bowl Champions. Unbelievable. Who Dat.
Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try Again. Fail again. Fail better. -Samuel Beckett

by Scott C. Broussard on Mar 19, 2010 6:24 PM EDT up reply actions  

Who wins or loses is only secondary

The real question is, how many times we will hear the word “explosive”?

by cletusvandam on Mar 19, 2010 7:41 PM EDT reply actions  

vera is disappointing lately i agree

vera has not impressed me lately especially at 205 except when he dropped couture but then he immediately disappoints chances he returns in top form is slim but for some reason i like vera in this fight and just in general i want to see him succeed but Jones has so much potential he could potentially ko vera, i know that is a bold statement but i’m putting it out there

by Dr Tyronious on Mar 19, 2010 7:58 PM EDT reply actions  

Vera has one hand hanging off the cliff before falling into irrelevancy. I’d rather him just fucking go for it like Manhoef or someone and risk getting dropped than relying on technique and being careful. Fuck he’s annoying!

With that said, WAR BONES!!!!

We're just a million little gods causin' rain storms, turning every good thing to rust.

by Anthony Pace on Mar 19, 2010 8:04 PM EDT reply actions  

I think vera will steamroll

Vera beat Randy on most people’s score cards. He is the headline of another event and has the exp advantage. He has been in the spotlight before and knows this is his last chance to make a title run. He has good wrestling, jiu-jitsu and striking. Jones has good takedowns and strikes but his jits are kind of an unknown. Both seem to have good cardio but will the pressure cause jones to gas in the 3rd? Bonnar started to tag jones in the 3rd.

I think Vera takes this one. He is just better. Jones is fun to watch and has vicious gnp but vera will test his chin. I am betting jones has no chin.

by hatteras on Mar 19, 2010 10:41 PM EDT reply actions  

nice point

i agree like i said before jones didn’t want a piece of bonner in stand up but i don’t even think vera has ko power in his hands anymore since the weight drop but maybe he just hasn’t hit someone clean enough yet

by Dr Tyronious on Mar 19, 2010 11:09 PM EDT up reply actions  

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