Georges St. Pierre, Kenny Florian, and Renzo Gracie train at Gracie's gym in Manhattan.
Photos by Dave Mandel at Sherdog
UFC 111: St. Pierre vs. Hardy coverage
almost 2 years ago
Scott Haber
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kennys probably the only one at lw who can stand with bj
if he comes in with a different strategy i think he can maybe win a round attacking bjs cardio obviously isnt the way to go anymore
Unfortunately for him he can't do much else.
Without pain, without sacrifice, we would have nothing.
by lowellthehammer on Mar 16, 2010 9:05 PM EDT up reply actions
Even in a standup fight, I'd give the edge to Penn.
Penn is a better technical boxer, Guillard makes up for his deficiencies with speed and power. I’d say Penn has a good chance of just picking him apart, although Guillard is always a threat.
Without pain, without sacrifice, we would have nothing.
by lowellthehammer on Mar 16, 2010 9:17 PM EDT up reply actions
Guillard stand with Penn?
Yeah, Melvin can stand with BJ Penn. If they are getting their picture taken. Why would you think that Scott? You must see something I don’t.
because guillard got good hands thats why
i aint saying he would beat him
by staytrue2010 on Mar 16, 2010 9:14 PM EDT up reply actions
Because Guillard is the only one at 155
whose boxing skills are close to those of BJ’s. If you can’t see that, you should watch more of Melvin’s fights.
Do I think Melvin can beat BJ? Hell no. But the question was about striking skills at 155…and I think Melvin has the best chance on the feet against BJ.
scott
Well, I understand now. Melvin has good hands, yes. I’m not so sure he has better boxing than most LW’s, I agree with Lowellthehammer. Melvin has speed, power and atheleticism.
Athleticism = he's black.
Without pain, without sacrifice, we would have nothing.
by lowellthehammer on Mar 16, 2010 9:25 PM EDT up reply actions
GSP is black? The guy jokes about wearing a pimp hat and you leap to conclusions;)
by Kwisatz Haderach on Mar 17, 2010 12:02 AM EDT up reply actions
Eh, fair point
I’d like to see 2010 Gomi against a good striker though to see where his skills are really at these days.
I would have loved to see Gomi vs. Terry Etim, but we’ll see what happens with Florian.
good point
I think Gomi is being fed to the Lions. I like Etim, but, how bout sam Stout or Spencer Fisher?
Take it you didn't see Gomi get lit up by Azeredo.
Without pain, without sacrifice, we would have nothing.
by lowellthehammer on Mar 16, 2010 9:30 PM EDT up reply actions
joe daddy isnt a better boxer...
but he stumbled melvin with a jab. WIth that said, i think bj would put a clinic on melvin and probably finish him in the first. Melvins powerful and fast, but Bj is deceptively powerful, and id say just as quick as melvin. PLUS more technical and experienced
Skill wise
Spencer Fisher , Kenflo , and Frankie Edgar have a chance.
Problem with that is that BJ has skill and power. After getting hit with a little power Kenflo looked like he wanted nothing to do with BJ. Same goes for Diego. His power just brings weakness out. Thats the problem with BJ . He just has too many tools.
Power Wise Melvin Guillard
Melvin also has the speed. However you will see the drastic gap in skill early and often. Plus don’t forget this is BJ Penn. Granite Chin. Never been rocked. Sooner of later Melvin will feel BJ’s power. If BJ eats a couple of Melvin’s shot if he’s even lucky enough to hit him he will become a coward.
BJ= Speed + Power + Technique + Granite Chin = No shot.
BJ said Kenny has no power in his punches or kicks.
by MMAEruption on Mar 16, 2010 10:06 PM EDT up reply actions
Ask Guida.
I think BJ’s head is particularly well suited for absorbing damage. Have you ever seen him rocked? Ok, outside of GSP 2.
Anyways, that probably doesn’t make his opinion of Kenny’s power that reliable.
What makes you say that?
He got hit and lost every single standup exchange in their bout… It was even funny seeing him take a huge hook everytime he tried to do a supermanpunch. Haha.
Unless he improved his striking drastically, I doubt he can take on BJ standing.
by Anton Tabuena on Mar 16, 2010 10:25 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeah, look out Hardy, GSP is ragdolling a LW to train for this fight.
Without pain, without sacrifice, we would have nothing.
by lowellthehammer on Mar 16, 2010 9:09 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeah, plus he trains with LHWs, elite wrestlers, etc. etc.
Not questioning GSPs training partners, just wouldn’t look at this as proof that GSP will grab a submission. It’s like saying Hardy’s going to KO GSP because he KO’d Gomi in sparring.
Without pain, without sacrifice, we would have nothing.
by lowellthehammer on Mar 16, 2010 9:15 PM EDT up reply actions
Disregard Kenny
In the other set of photos from a few days ago, GSP had Renzo mounted and had his back as well. Given Renzo’s skills and credentials, I think that’s pretty good reason to believe that if GSP gets on top of Hardy he’s going to tap him.
…that’s terrible news for Hardy. Guess he’s got to really hope he lands that one killshot before GSP goes for the takedown.
Without pain, without sacrifice, we would have nothing.
by lowellthehammer on Mar 16, 2010 9:22 PM EDT up reply actions
I hope we get to see some more of GSP submission skills. Hardy would be a good opponent to test it out on.
I’m unaware of Alves credentials but maybe his size made it not worth going for them. Going for submissions usually means giving up some sort of positional control. Perhaps Alves was too much of a monster and wanted to focus on controlling the beast. I’m sure Alves JJ is tight as well he’s a damn brazilian.lol
Fitch
Mr Ungullitonable. Excellent wrestler excellent JJ. One of the top fighters in the world who mainly beats people with ground fighting. Trying to tap out John Fitch is just not a good gameplan.
Bj Penn
Ugh need I say more? It’s freaking BJ penn.
Matt Serra
Legit Black Belt One of the top JJ practictioners in the world. A gameplan focused on tapping Serra is made by a foolish coach.
So in conclusion as you can see it is not so much that GSP is not a submission fighter. This guy is a beast and works everything. I say he’s the most dedicated fighter ever in MMA. GSP submission game is tight. Problem is when your dealing with the top people in the world in MMA submission aren’t always the best route.
Especially against the last 4 guys he has faced. It likely was not even part of the gameplan or even brought up at all. Those guys are just top notch ground fighters.
I’m unaware of Hardy’s JJ skills. Likely he pales in comparison to those four. We may have a chance to see a tapout in this fight.
However, Gsp is a very cautious fighter. Submission equal taking risks usually. GSP does not like to take risks. Especially when he can just control you and GNP you forever. It almost makes submissions too risky.
We shall see. Just say though if Hardy gets tapped out it wouldn’t suprise me in the least.
He took that armbar on Hughes.
I think GSP would go for something if he feels like he could definitely get it.
Without pain, without sacrifice, we would have nothing.
by lowellthehammer on Mar 16, 2010 10:47 PM EDT up reply actions
*sigh* everytime someone says GSP doesn't try for many submissions
we need to be reminded of the fact that against:
-Koscheck, he went for several kimuras and a leglock
-Fitch, he tried a leglock
-Hughes (the third time) he tried several subs which ended in the beautiful armbar victory
-Alves, he went for an armbar (which is when he tore his groin) and the RNC several times
by Scott Haber on Mar 16, 2010 11:34 PM EDT up reply actions
its not always gsp being cautious, its his corner. jackson told him to stop taking alves’s back because he didnt want gsp in the bottom of guard (a call i agree with given the groin injury)
by phantasma475 on Mar 16, 2010 11:39 PM EDT up reply actions
And FYI, I always disregard Kenny.
Without pain, without sacrifice, we would have nothing.
by lowellthehammer on Mar 16, 2010 9:24 PM EDT up reply actions
/fistpump
Without pain, without sacrifice, we would have nothing.
by lowellthehammer on Mar 16, 2010 9:30 PM EDT up reply actions
pictures of renzo being mounted or kenflo getting choked out doesn’t really mean anything. they could just be drilling bad positions. in the picture above kenny isn’t doing anything to defend that choke, his hands are by his waist
by phantasma475 on Mar 16, 2010 10:14 PM EDT up reply actions
Yep,
And when I saw Renzo teach Hamill, he also let Matt mount/sidemount/back etc him, so he could teach him the proper escapes.
If you took a picture of all of those, Hamill would look like a genius on the mat, where as in reality, a female Renzo Gracie student who was outweighed by 50lbs or more, tapped him.
by Anton Tabuena on Mar 16, 2010 10:30 PM EDT up reply actions
I dont see any LW that can hang with BJ Penn
Really, if Penn continues to train and work his cardio the way he has. I just don’t see anyone out there challenging him.
Is that de la Riva guard Renzo has on GSP?
Think I remember seeing it in the BJ Penn book, but I might be remembering incorrectly.
Without pain, without sacrifice, we would have nothing.
by lowellthehammer on Mar 16, 2010 9:12 PM EDT reply actions
BJ is the Leonardo Da Vinci of violence.
Keep firing Assholes!
Blackout is always right
by Ubernoober on Mar 16, 2010 9:37 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
i think so… normally the guy on bottom would be grabbing the guys sleeve since its more of a gi than a no gi position
by phantasma475 on Mar 16, 2010 10:25 PM EDT up reply actions
These are comments on a blog
threads can be found on a message board.
I’m not really arguing semantics though…just busting your balls ;)
by Scott Haber on Mar 17, 2010 12:35 AM EDT up reply actions
Considering Penn has fought all of these guys, are you that surprised?
Without pain, without sacrifice, we would have nothing.
by lowellthehammer on Mar 16, 2010 10:16 PM EDT up reply actions
look how big GSP's gotten.
it’s like you can see every single muscle fibre of his triceps on that one picture. wtf.
Go big red!
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