Take Down 2 Strikers and Call Me in the Morning

by Aaron Burcham on Mar 14, 2010 10:15 PM EDT

For me, one of the most annoying situations in a fight is when Fighter A continually takes down his opponent, and Fighter B appears surprised the other guy is implementing that strategy. It is the helplessness. I absolutely love the ground game and trained in Jiu Jitsu for years, so it is not a lack of understanding that element of fighting. Rather, I begin questioning the game plan and strategy of Fighter B and his team.

Too many times I see a fighter going up against a guy who he must know (or at least suspect) will try to take him down. This fighter, generally attempting to outstrike his opponent, will have a high striking stance, headhunt, and go for hail mary-esque blows to the head that generally result in him going for a ride.

I have often wondered what would happen if he were to avoid the moves that would increase his chance of going to the ground (i.e. headkicks, flying knees, certain punches, etc.) and instead, fight in a low stance and throw punches to the body. Would that not help negate the wrestler's attempts to get under his hips to take him down? I am trying to think of a situation where the anti-takedown fighter used this strategy and still got taken down.

I am not suggesting that body shots are the cure-all for takedowns, especially when the wrestling pedigree is superior. Some guys are so good that it doesn't seem to matter what the other guy's strategy is, they can get them down when they want to. I am only asking the question: Do you think that would help? What else do you think would help?

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Well, many wrestlers get the idea that they can throw bombs and half-ass box…I’d keep my hands low and work some serious head movement trying to bait him into headhunting and do my best to counterpunch my way to victory. Along with your typical tactics for avoiding a wrestler’s strategy.

"You guys are jerking eachother off with some pseudo deep bullshit." - Kid Nate

by Kaleb Kelchner on Mar 14, 2010 11:22 PM EDT reply actions

Depends on the wrestler. Would definitely works on some guys, like Matt Hamill or Sean Sherk lately. But on others, I would say it doesn’t much to nullify the takedown attempts, its just hoping they’ll abandon the ground game and play into your hands.

by Hardcase on Mar 18, 2010 6:50 PM EDT up reply actions

So this brings another question

With so much on the line and money so important, why do we see incredible wrestlers trying to strike with guys they shouldn’t? Yeah, popularity and fan opinion is important, but is it not something deeper than that? This would be like Pat Barry, in dire straights about to lose his house, shooting in for a takedown against Shane Carwin (obviously that isn’t happening now). But we don’t really see that. It’s more of the wrestlers striking. What do you think?

by Aaron Burcham on Mar 18, 2010 10:45 PM EDT up reply actions

Fighter A continually takes down his opponent, and Fighter B appears surprised the other guy is implementing that strategy.

weoweoweo .deviantart .com -- @antontabuena

by Anton Tabuena on Mar 14, 2010 11:28 PM EDT reply actions

While we're on the Josh Neer theme:

by Scott Haber on Mar 15, 2010 12:20 AM EDT up reply actions

yup

I interviewed Neer and asked him about that over on the MMAforreal section of this site.

http://www.mmaforreal.com/2010/3/11/1367565/exclusive-josh-neer-interview

follow me twitter.com/GotaHemmi

by Brian Hemminger on Mar 15, 2010 6:16 AM EDT up reply actions

perfect picture response.

Gatti. Dekkers. Pele. Aoki. Kang. Vanderlei. Basillio. Harry Greb.

by theworldsoldestsport on Mar 17, 2010 11:14 AM EDT up reply actions

It is nearly impossible to implement a good striking gameplan against a wreslter. You always have to worry about it and you can’t really get into a groove.

However, I think the best striking style suited against a wrestler besides actually being a wrestler with phenomenal takedown defense is…..

An excellent counter striker…

In regards to Anderson and Machida like gameplans. Shit you could throw Chuck in there as well seeing as succesful as he was.

It seems like they all have takedown defense already factored into their stances and their distancing.

A boxer like Frankie Edgar would be good as well. The counterstriking always moving away style he used to beat Sherk.

These are the few striking styles that take into account a wrestler. Most striking styles force you to commit but these strikes have shown to have one leg up on takedown guys.

Regarding AS he has worked his distancing alot more recently perhaps Machida’s training has helped him as well..

by p123 on Mar 15, 2010 12:18 AM EDT reply actions

Machida also trained in sumo previously (yep, there’s photos out there), so it’s not as if he had to suddenly learn grappling slapdash once he got his dad’s okay to do MMA.

by Chortles on Mar 15, 2010 1:00 AM EDT up reply actions

I have always thought that the uppercut to the head and to the body were under valued in MMA and that along with changing your angles would be a start, also changing your stance and distance would also help to keep a wrestler off his shoot. inside leg kicks IMO are better vs wrestlers as they are quicker and leave you less open to the TD.

by Beren on Mar 15, 2010 12:26 AM EDT reply actions

Another thing that irritates me, is when fighter A keeps taking fighter B down; but refuses to pass the full guard. Instead they hang out and pepper them with arm punches for 5 minutes straight. That is of course, if the referee doesn’t stand them up. But sometimes as long as a good strike is thrown every now and then, they can just camp out in that position. Wrestlers have gotten so talented, they can hold their opponent on the mat with ease and take advantage in this way. I love the ground game too, but that’s no fun to watch.

"Well, yes, but I’m afraid I prematurely shot my wad on what was supposed to be a dry run, if you will, so now I’m afraid I have something of a mess on my hands." - Tobias Fünke

"There are just so many poorly chosen words in that sentence." - Michael Bluth

One of my favorite lines from the best TV show ever.

by zakkree on Mar 15, 2010 11:59 AM EDT reply actions

Are you not a fan of Chael Sonnen's style of fighting then?

by chrisbboy82 on Mar 16, 2010 7:02 PM EDT up reply actions

Well...

I actually loved the fight with Marquardt because I considered Nate fully capable of stopping at least THAT from happening. I figured he might get taken down a few times but not dominated like that. I was rooting for Chael in that one but not against Okami. With Chael I guess I can say that it’s hard not to be impressed with what he’s accomplished and the fact that he has taken guys down with ease is less irritating because most of the guys he’s fought I thought could stop it and I thought would beat him.

by Aaron Burcham on Mar 16, 2010 9:32 PM EDT up reply actions

Patiences. Don’t stand in front of the wrestler.

The body’s a good idea, but you really have to work angles and be off to side or you’d be little to close for comfort.

Like the other guy said, the way Edgar fights.

by D.D.T. on Mar 15, 2010 3:52 PM EDT reply actions

I dont have any pro fights under my belt, but I think if youre commiting to extending a limb to a wrestler, and giving him that opening for a take down, it better do some damage if it connects. So it makes more sense to aim for the head. I think the best strike against a wrestler with poor striking ability would be the jab ala penn vs. sherk. Quick, effective, and youre not over extending yourself at all

by jaybot on Mar 15, 2010 5:33 PM EDT reply actions

Not to take what you said out of context

I think the key to not getting taken down by a stud wrestler is to mix everything up well. Just throwing body shots is a terrible idea, and could potentially lead to you getting countered. My boxing coach @ Xtreme Couture (Ron Frazier) said that one of the worst things you could ever do is throw telegraphed body shots, because it leaves your face WIDE open. The best time to throw body shots are when they cover up, but it’s also nice to mix them into your combos if you set them up right.

Also, like Thiago Alves showed against Koscheck, if you can set up kicks to the legs & body well with your hands, then leg kicks can be extremely useful in slowing the wrestler down. Take out their legs, and their shot becomes less of a problem; again- all a matter of setting it up right. As Machida has shown in his previous fights- if you can’t keep up with someone’s footwork, it’s impossible to take them down. So it’s just a matter of not becoming flatfooted, using a multifaceted attack, and most of all- THE SET UP.

Supporting all Las Vegas MMA. Xtreme Couture- "The Best Never Rest!"

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by ElliotMatheny on Mar 16, 2010 12:26 AM EDT reply actions