Freddie Roach talks BJ Penn, Anderson Silva, GSP and Fedor, plus Boxing vs. MMA. It's a great listen.
almost 2 years ago
Nick Thomas
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"I do believe that punchers are born and not made." - Freddy Roach
Thank you!
I realize I’m not the only one that says this but it’s over looked so often. When it comes to POWER. You got what you got. You can’t lift weights or hit bags w/ resistance and stuff enough to significantly increase punching power. Speed and accuracy is where you CAN improve, just like Freddy says.
I buy it if Freddie says so, but I still wonder what “it” is that they’re born with. Dense bones? The set of a puncher’s shoulder in it’s socket for greater stability at impact? Big wrists? More chi? Huh?
by Kwisatz Haderach on Mar 13, 2010 7:27 PM EST up reply actions
The answer you are looking for is very hard to quantify.
If people were able to answer this question there would be a lot of athletes at the same level of skill.
Joe Rogan was the first guy that I heard really start to talk about this subject one night on commentary. Its just body kinectics and physiology. I think length, size of hands, bone density, natural speed, reaction time.
Now, like Mr. Roach said, I think punching power can be worked on and Cain Velasquez is the perfect example of that. Technique, reaction time, and accuracy will go a long way.
I think Chuck Liddell probably had the best one shot power in MMA. I always look at his knockout shots of Vernon White and the second Randy fight, he barely touched either of them and flatlined them both.
Oh punching power can definetely be increased with as you said working on technique. Its something i have experience in. My biggest problem has always been power, something that over the years has increased significantly with technique but it can never be at the level i would like it to be. I will never have one shot power…a handicap i mask with conditioning, speed, and technique.
Sure. I’m certain that it’s a combination of many factors, but all other things being equal, there must be some physiological differences that can account for, say, Chuck Liddell vs. Forrest Griffin, or whoever. It just seems like there could be some research into this. “I need Chuck and Forrest in the lab, stat!” The idea that one guy is born with it, and one isn’t, though they may train equally well, and intensely, just strikes me as an interesting subject for science to take a crack at. I imagine a good boxing coach can see two teenagers learning to box, and be able to tell which has the innate ability to crack, and then hone it. I’m pretty skeptical of the “it’s in the genes” argument being thrown around in almost any debate. It’s way overused, and often just a way to be dismissive. Anyway, thanks for the input above and below. Maybe Fight Science can produce the data I need!
by Kwisatz Haderach on Mar 13, 2010 11:22 PM EST up reply actions
I don't agree
My own experience contradicts this absolutely.
by Infinite_Jest on Mar 13, 2010 7:42 PM EST up reply actions
Punching power comes from a number of different areas, including weight, hip mobility, strength, etc. Taking an “arm puncher” and giving him proper technique will absolutely result in an increase in power—and probably add accuracy and speed as well. I think all these things are linked. However, increases in power beyond a certain point have diminishing returns, whereas accuracy and speed can increase a great deal.
I think it’s myopic to say that punching power can’t be trained. Maybe it can’t, but I think it’d be better to say a reliable and tested way to train it—beyond basic technique improvements—hasn’t been developed yet.
I completely disagree, there may be genetic limitations to your maximum potential, but power can easily be trained for.
by Dropkick434 on Mar 14, 2010 11:14 AM EDT up reply actions
I agree. Nice. Short and straight to the point.
"Well, yes, but I’m afraid I prematurely shot my wad on what was supposed to be a dry run, if you will, so now I’m afraid I have something of a mess on my hands." - Tobias Fünke
"There are just so many poorly chosen words in that sentence." - Michael Bluth
One of my favorite lines from the best TV show ever.
Damn. That was pretty interesting. Cool to see Freddie appreciating both sports and giving a pretty honest assessment of their future potential. Couple of nice tidbits that show he’s learning to adapt to training MMA fighters in boxing. And, after seeing the footage of Anderson sparring at Wild Card, it was pretty interesting to hear his take on Anderson’s performance there as compared to a fight. Good stuff.
by Kwisatz Haderach on Mar 13, 2010 7:22 PM EST reply actions
agreed
when I saw that tape with Anderson sparing, I thought he would never do good in a boxing match, but even now that Feddie said he was probably only going 30 to 40%, I still don’t think he’d ever do great in boxing…
Don’t let anger get in the way of comprehension
I’d expect him to do pretty well if he just dedicated a year or two to it exclusively. He’s just getting too old to do that. That footage was strange cause Anderson was just owning the guy with no problem, hitting him at will, then he seemed to let up or slow down, and he started getting popped. So I was feeling like he was just warming up and working, letting the other guy get some work in as well, but without the context it was difficult to say. I think I was just in shock seeing Anderson take punches to the head. I didn’t know you could hit him there!
by Kwisatz Haderach on Mar 13, 2010 11:28 PM EST up reply actions
I haven’t seen the video, but I find it interesting that Silva would hold back that significantly, especially in front of Freddie Roach. You’d think, with his boxing aspirations, that he’d want to show all that he’s capable of when in front of of the most renowned trainers in the world.
I’m going to try that again:) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qntHWtZqWaY
by Kwisatz Haderach on Mar 15, 2010 1:51 PM EDT up reply actions
Great interview
If I remember right, Freddie has chaged his tune significantly about MMA as compared to a year or two ago.
"Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Ben Franklin
by donkeypunch on Mar 13, 2010 8:55 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Great Video!
Fan of Tiger 'Makin It Rain' Woods
Freddie Roach is the man
It’s important to have an ambassador of the sport (boxing) like Freddie Roach talk candidly about MMA. I love that he’s not spewing a bunch of crap just to try to keep MMA “under” boxing, he’s an honest guy and we could use more people like him in the fight game.
I’m surprised he didn’t talk at all about Fedor’s head movement…he and Anderson are miles ahead of the rest of MMA in that category.
I don’t know how people can say that guy doesn’t have respect for MMA. Listen to him talk. Freddy is just a good dude and always open to new ideas, be it MMA or boxing. That’s what makes him an awesome trainer.
Although detractors decry (MMA) as a brutal, bloody form of human cockfighting, aficionados know it is a brutal, bloody, totally fucking awesome form of human cockfighting. -The Onion
by The Kittitas Kid on Mar 13, 2010 11:01 PM EST reply actions
I would like to get a boxer or any striker training who isn’t set in their ways explain what is going on with Fedor’s striking. Obviously it is horrible standard kickboxing yet it is very effective. Fedor uses a casting punch that is not seen really by many others. He is one of the least hit fighters I think he was ahead of Machida for a while and Machida caught up but after the Shogun fight perhaps Fedor is better now.
For a guy that looks that sloppy yet never gets hit and is knocking guys out someone should have a better explanation than he is just a good puncher. Clearly a lot of science is going on in Fedor’s punching style and defense.
The reason I brought him up is because he generally breaks the your born with it rule. If Fedor punches like Arlovski I have no doubt he would not knock anybody out.
Fedor has manipuated his punching style much like a leg kick in Muay Thai. The whipping motion which generates more power than a straight punch can.
Boxing punches wise people are born with it or not. I think certain things can play major factors and a number of them more then others.
Big Hands, Big Wrists, Big Forearms are never going to hurt you,
Shoulder movement. Perhaps some science into what GSP was talking about when talking about Penn’s shoulder and how to manipulate that. Would like what he quoted on that and some backstory to that science and reasoning.
Hip movement and Leg movement. This is where it all starts from. I think this may be more of a technique thing but perhaps some fighters are more flexible or more explosive allowing them to generate more power from their base somehow.
by p123 on Mar 14, 2010 6:24 AM EST reply actions 1 recs
He is one of the least hit fighters
Fedor has good stats, because he’s mostly works on the ground pounding people from the top position. Machida and Anderson are stand up fighters and I find their stats more impressing.
Fujita rocked Fedor badly, Cro Cop painted his face in rainbow colours, Rogers and Arona busted his nose, Arlovski was schooling him on the feet (didn’t do much damage though).
Also Fedor is not knocking people out. On the feet he KO’ed “only” Arlovski and Rogers.
by dancingChicken on Mar 14, 2010 8:12 AM EDT up reply actions
Fedor never gets hit?
You must have missed both the AA and Rogers fights.
What UFC event is Freddie watching
that has rock and roll and singing in between fights? I guess he’s talking about EliteXC.
by MMAInFeRioRiTy on Mar 14, 2010 4:41 PM EDT reply actions
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