Is Fedor Emelianenko's Management "a Monster" That "Demands Blood"?
by Kid Nate on Mar 13, 2010 3:02 PM EST
in MMA News
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That's what Ben Fowlkes thinks:
M-1 Global is a monster not so easily appeased by token sacrifices. It demands blood, and in so doing has largely crippled what should be one of Strikeforce's most compelling attractions: its heavyweight division.
Strikeforce first acquired Emelianenko through a three-fight deal with M-1 Global in August of 2009. Since then, he's fought for the promotion once, which is exactly as many times as M-1 Global has insisted on renegotiating his contract in the same time span. If you're wondering what the point of a three-fight contract is if one party will insist on, in their own terms, "tweaking" the deal a third of the way through, you aren't alone.
...
The more we see M-1 Global's idea of co-promotion in action, the less appealing it looks. It's not enough to put their name on the door; they want to make sure everyone is forced to read it, too.
I've written before about the negative treatment that M-1 Global gets from the U.S. media and here we go again.
It is very clear that M-1 Global's somewhat eccentric approach to co-promotion has hurt Strikeforce. The first CBS show featuring Fedor met with mixed success, but promised big things for future shows. While Fedor failed to outperform Gina Carano or Kimbo Slice as a ratings draw on CBS, he did show a dramatic increase in viewship from the Jake Shields-Mayhem Miller fight that preceded him.
The table was set for a really strong follow up featuring Fedor on CBS and M-1 Global has apparently chosen to scotch it because they want more recognition for the M-1 brand. Not from Strikeforce, which met its terms, but from CBS and the reporting media.
This is an irrational and somewhat impossible requirement.
The fact that M-1 head honcho Vadim Finkelstein is publicly musing about Fedor signing with the UFC after their Strikeforce deal is done is also strange and makes me think that M-1 is playing a more complicated game than it appears on the surface.
I think the factor that hasn't really been discussed is this -- beating Fabricio Werdum, the likely opponent for Fedor in April -- does nothing for Fedor. It's a fight he's absolutely supposed to win. And while Fedor would be heavily favored to beat Werdum, there is a very real possibility that Werdum could win and that would not be a win for Fedor.
Throughout his career, he's been very carefully managed. They put off fighting Cro Cop as long as possible back in the PRIDE days and happily fought a string of less than worthy challengers before and after the end of PRIDE. It's hard to parse what M-1 is up to and whether they're just making a huge mistake out of delusions of grandeur or if they are working an angle to best serve Fedor's interest.
I also have a good deal of sympathy for the M-1 team because they are Russians dealing with major American corporations on American soil. They're far from home and, frankly, in historically enemy territory, navigating an alien culture and, presumably, trying to do their best for their fighter.
Personally, I'd like to see Fedor fight Werdum on the April card. I think that would have been the best outcome for Fedor, Strikeforce, CBS and MMA. But it won't be happening now.
Fowlkes goes on to say:
This is the point where I am forced to admit that when it comes to running an MMA promotion, a little bit of tyranny is sometimes a good thing. The UFC may adopt an iron-fisted approach to dealing with employees -- just ask Jon Fitch what happens when you have the temerity to bristle at signing away all rights to your own likeness -- but the UFC gets what the UFC wants. More often than not, that also means fans get the fights they want to see -- and sooner rather than later.
Compare that with Strikeforce's heavyweight troubles. Between Emelianenko and current champ Alistair Overeem, they have two of the best big men in the sport. But what good does that do you if you can't even get them in the same room?
This is a separate and very complicated issue. I'm very much torn about the idea of the UFC being not just the biggest player in MMA world-wide, but the only player that really matters.
Competition was better for pro-wrestling than the effective WWE monopoly that has reigned for the past decade and I'd argue that the WWE itself was better off when they were locked in battle with the WCW than they have been as a troubled monopoly with flat growth, tons of bad press, and sole public liability for the string of disasters that have afflicted the sport entertainment world in recent years.
And unlike the scripted world of pro-wrestling, MMA is a hugely unpredictable individual sport. Even if the UFC manages to sign Fedor and become for a while the only player that matters at all in big-time MMA, it will be very hard to keep every champion in every division on lock down forever.
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Off topic, but...
Do you guys realize you have a favicon of a purple peace sign on the main page? What’s that shit about?
Blackout612- "Wuts teh UFC?"
Ubernoober- "It like two guy who just stand and swing for fence and try to knock each other shit out it awesome"
Isn’t that the favicon for craigslist?
New Orleans Saints - 2010 Super Bowl Champions. Unbelievable. Who Dat.
Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try Again. Fail again. Fail better. -Samuel Beckett
by Scott C. Broussard on Mar 13, 2010 1:16 PM EST up reply actions
Indeed
Not sure why it’s on there. Do you see it?
Blackout612- "Wuts teh UFC?"
Ubernoober- "It like two guy who just stand and swing for fence and try to knock each other shit out it awesome"
The favicon
The title bar.
Blackout612- "Wuts teh UFC?"
Ubernoober- "It like two guy who just stand and swing for fence and try to knock each other shit out it awesome"
I just see the red star on a black square.
New Orleans Saints - 2010 Super Bowl Champions. Unbelievable. Who Dat.
Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try Again. Fail again. Fail better. -Samuel Beckett
by Scott C. Broussard on Mar 13, 2010 2:11 PM EST up reply actions
Huh?
As the favicon? They never applied that— I don’t see it in any browser (and I use a combination of Firefox, IE, Chrome and Safari depending on where I’m working on a given day).
Blackout612- "Wuts teh UFC?"
Ubernoober- "It like two guy who just stand and swing for fence and try to knock each other shit out it awesome"
That’s what I see it as. It’s even saved as a bookmark on the bookmark bar for me.
I run Chrome, for what it’s worth.
New Orleans Saints - 2010 Super Bowl Champions. Unbelievable. Who Dat.
Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try Again. Fail again. Fail better. -Samuel Beckett
by Scott C. Broussard on Mar 13, 2010 9:46 PM EST up reply actions
i often get favicons for other sites i just visited popping up on here for some reason, maybe that’s what’s happening to you
Shouldn't be
Would have to be a programming error.
Blackout612- "Wuts teh UFC?"
Ubernoober- "It like two guy who just stand and swing for fence and try to knock each other shit out it awesome"
But they aren’t trying to do business like other promotions in the US, they are trying to latch onto other promotions and have them do all the work. If M-1 wanted to do business like Strikeforce or the UFC then they would be out there signing as many big name fighters as they could and putting on their own top tier shows like Strikeforce and the UFC do. They are trying to do business in a completely different way than any MMA promotion does, they just want to attach their name to other company’s cards.
Leeches
M-1 Global is a leech to which you have to attach yourself if you want Fedor. If M-1 Global was a legitimate mma production company, they would be putting up the money and putting on US fight cards. Instead, they insist on this ridiculous “co-promote” which is nothing more than sticking an M-1 Global sign up at an event. Of course the media doesn’t take it seriously!
by pwdminotauro on Mar 13, 2010 1:44 PM EST up reply actions
It can’t be easy working in an alien culture, but a little less confrontational attitude might do M-1 a world of good.
Russia has been (and may still be) a culture unlike many others on this planet – all the way down to how they view their role in history. Toss in the general chaos that was the fall of Soviet Union and most of everything that has happened since. Good, bad or indifferent, it has a huge effect on everything when one is dealing with Russians.
At this point, the only thing Fedor/M-1 has that they can sell is Fedor’s status as the best MMArtist on the planet. For untold times, he was #1 at both HW and P4P. However, the lack of quality opponents is starting to hurt – and it’s starting to do that sooner than later. Since the fall of PRIDE, his arguably only real opponents have been Arlovski and Sylvia. Lindland bulked up from MW, Choi is a kickboxer and Rogers came in with a win over James Thompson and a fluke upset over Arlovski. It’s been 4,5 years since Fedor fought CroCop – and his three last PRIDE opponents were Zulu, Coleman and Hunt.
How long will UFC and/or StrikeForce be willing to pay for the aura of the Last Emperor?
by Monday Morning Martial Artist on Mar 13, 2010 1:13 PM EST reply actions
M-1 Global wants to be a big time promotion without doing all their own footwork in the US. They have always had leverage with these smaller promotions because they have Fedor so they get more out of working with them. Lets face it the UFC doesn’t need Fedor but Bodog and Affliction and Strikeforce have all really needed what Fedor represents. Fedor’s wants and needs are secondary to the overall promotion and M-1Global gets more out of dealing with other companies than they would if they put Fedor in the UFC. It’s why having a fight promotion also working as your manager is such a huge conflict of interest, the interest of a company and an individual fighter are two separate things. I would be surprised if Fedor ever signed with the UFC, the best hope for that is that there are no more smaller promotions willing to deal with the devil to get him. As long as there is a promotion that better serves M-1 Global’s needs then Fedor in the UFC isn’t going to happen.
People are going way overboard in the M1 hate recently, but the way this current situation is being handled sort of gives people lots of ammo.
The problem is that M1 had done nothing to disprove the monster image, and made several statements that tie in much more closely with the blood sucking monster image than the idea that they are “partners” with Strikeforce.
It’s no reason to hate them for looking after their own best interest, that is what they are supposed to do as a company. The issue is that people think of them as Fedor’s management and that they should be looking out for Fedor’s best interest but when you get down to it that just isn’t how it works with them. Fedor is a tool they use to get M-1 Global what M-1 Global wants and needs. What Fedor needs as a fighter just isn’t their priority what M-1 Global needs is. Its like hating a snake for being a snake, there is no reason to hate them for being what they are but people need to understand what they are. Fedor is poorly represented in management terms by them but Fedor is a part owner in M-1 Global too so he probably understands that he is putting his own personal interest secondary to the promotion.
Crazy Russians
Every move they make M-1 Global validates Dana White’s public statements about dealing with crazy Russian demands. I’ve dealt with groups like M-1 before. Unless you have an absolutely iron clad contract, every time a performance is called for under the contract what you actually get is another bargaining session. You’re like WTF! didn’t I just negotiate this contract?
What M-1 is doing with these continual publicly aired disputed is to turn people off to Fedor. Fans love guys like GSP. He fights, he wins and we are not continuously subjected to GSP or his camp bitching about his contract.
Fedor is a very delicate commodity...
He has fought an enormous string of less than worthy opponents and has gained in popularity and #1 rank by not losing to any of them. Once he loses, his value will plummet because his value is derived by the fact that he’s never lost.
This is a very dangerous time for Fedor because his next two likely opponents are both worthy and the best he’s fought. Both Werdum & Overeem can beat him, and that fact is obvious to M1 — They must tread carefully, and that’s what they are doing.
I’m not exactly sure what is being negotiated, but I am sure that M1 is trying to take as much from the well as possible, because there might not be too many more opportunities.
Faber, Florian, Nick Diaz, 'Mayhem', Mousasi, Fedor
Fedor and M1 have ran many promotions into the ground. His price is greater then the revenue he creates. Paying more then a fighter brings in is bad business.
"Frank Mir had a horseshoe up his ass. I told him a year ago. I pulled it out of him and I beat him over the head with it." Brock Lesnar
It’s bad business for whomever is stuck paying the tab but it’s a great deal from M-1 Global’s perspective.
Thats when you tell M1 Global to get fucked
"Frank Mir had a horseshoe up his ass. I told him a year ago. I pulled it out of him and I beat him over the head with it." Brock Lesnar
m1 is fucked...
They have one fighter and he’s about to lose all his worth.
Faber, Florian, Nick Diaz, 'Mayhem', Mousasi, Fedor
Just Glad Mousasi jumped ship before it sank.
"Frank Mir had a horseshoe up his ass. I told him a year ago. I pulled it out of him and I beat him over the head with it." Brock Lesnar
Mousasi is the real deal...
He’s battle tested in a way Fedor never was. I am very confident that Mousasi is a top 5 LHW (meaning that there are only 4 fighter that could beat him). Fedor is maybe top 10:
Lesnar
Carwin
Mir
nogueira
velasquez
dos santos
carwin
overeem
werdum
Faber, Florian, Nick Diaz, 'Mayhem', Mousasi, Fedor
Mousasi would be a great addition to the UFC roster. Can’t wait till his contract ends
"Frank Mir had a horseshoe up his ass. I told him a year ago. I pulled it out of him and I beat him over the head with it." Brock Lesnar
You might have to wait awhile. It was reported he signed a six-fight extension to his contract.
by John Nash on Mar 13, 2010 2:31 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Six fights?
I’m not sure SF will be around that long
"Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Ben Franklin
How can Noguiera be in there if Fedor is maybe top 10? Cain, JDS and carwin have done a hell of a lot less than Fedor has. Overeem? What where you thikning? Lesnar has only beat Randy and Mir, Mir has beat Nog , Timmy, and a green Brock… Clearly you are a Fedor hater or something.
most people are fedor haters at this point
by JaTinkles on Mar 13, 2010 5:15 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
i derive rankings differently than you do...
admittedly different than most. But that’s exactly why I put Fedor at #10 and you put him at #1. I don’t think you should be able to achieve #1 by kicking a whole lot of cans. You should fight the best and beat the best to achieve that status. Fedor, throughout his career, has chosen to duck the best.
Faber, Florian, Nick Diaz, 'Mayhem', Mousasi, Fedor
If you went to trade in your car and the place was willing give you double the trade in value for it you would be stupid to pass it up. As long as M-1 Global can get companies to agree to what they want they would be stupid to not go out and get all they can. So far only the UFC has been willing to tell them no on anything.
by who me on Mar 13, 2010 1:55 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
If Fedor loses, M-1 is fucked. Therefore we will never see Fedor in a situation where there is a high probability of a loss.
Don’t expect to see Fedor in the UFC, ever.
Keep firing Assholes!
Blackout is always right
by Ubernoober on Mar 13, 2010 1:32 PM EST reply actions 2 recs
I feel like...
Fighters from all over the world have the capacity to make deals on U.S. soil. I know Russia is entire different animal, historically, but M-1’s history is probably a bit more damning. This tactic of renegotiating deals after the first fight of a contract repeatedly is more telling of their intentions than they probably need to reveal, and is beyond ridiculous.
I'm like PacMan fightin you silly kids... throw ya Hatton the ring, and get knocked outlike Ricky did.
lol.
lmmfao
All i can remember is when people were calling for Dana’s head when he didnt “co-promote” with M-1 global. Dana is a genious for not accepting that deal.
M-1 global= scum bags :)
" Im surprised GSP can get his jeans on with all these people clinging to his nuts"- Dan Hardy
oh josh gross you look dumber and dumber everyday.
by JaTinkles on Mar 13, 2010 1:55 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
well
M1 is the one who said no to DW, and supposedly, if we are to believe DW they gave M1 a better deal than SF did. It’s not about DW being a genius (in this case), it’s about M1 being stupid.
Don’t let anger get in the way of comprehension
m1 is the genius...
There is no one in the UFC that Fedor could beat.
Faber, Florian, Nick Diaz, 'Mayhem', Mousasi, Fedor
JDS , Carwin , Mir, Cain, Lesnar. Can’t see Fedor getting threw all 5 without a L
"Frank Mir had a horseshoe up his ass. I told him a year ago. I pulled it out of him and I beat him over the head with it." Brock Lesnar
Fedor biggest problem is great strikers, and four of those are not great strikers, they’re ground specialists (even though Cain has won most of them by TKO, I still don’t consider him a great striker). IMO, JDS is the only one who has a chance on paper, but if the fight were to go to the ground, I’d see him losing as well.
Don’t let anger get in the way of comprehension
Fedor was in a bad spot more than once against Brett Rogers. All 5 of the men i named are better and would be allowed Elbows on the ground. I think UFC has built a pretty solid division at HW and its going to be tough for anybody even Fedor to get threw them all without taking a Loss.
"Frank Mir had a horseshoe up his ass. I told him a year ago. I pulled it out of him and I beat him over the head with it." Brock Lesnar
I agree that the UFC has the best HW division today
but I still see Fedor being the best HW, and would for sure give a hell of a fight to anyone in the UFC.
Don’t let anger get in the way of comprehension
Absolutely, I just want to se him tested against the best and most dangerous guys out there instead of him beating up on ex-Sam’s club employees.
Keep firing Assholes!
Blackout is always right
when he failed to sign with the UFC
Fedor lost me as a fan, I definitely agree with you. But that’s not to say Fedor is fighting bums either, I could easily see Rogers in the UFC.
Don’t let anger get in the way of comprehension
Rogers is good, but he’s no BROCKLESNARRRRRRRRRR!!!!!!!!
Brock has been a high level athlete for half of his life. Rogers worked 40+ hours a week doing tires until about 2 years ago. There is a difference in training quality there.
Keep firing Assholes!
Blackout is always right
Give Rogers credit. The last opponents he has signed on to fight: Arlvoski, Fedor, Overeem. That’s pretty tough competition.
by John Nash on Mar 13, 2010 2:43 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
I give him credit for taking on challenges, but he.s still no BROCKLESNARRRR.
Keep firing Assholes!
Blackout is always right
You should start writing his name BRETTROGERS. Might give his career a boost.
by John Nash on Mar 13, 2010 2:57 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
he fought AA when he was still a top ten, and gave a hell of a fight to Fedor, and he’s 10-1 with all his wins being finished and losing only to Fedor. Brock has fought Heath Herring (not top ten), Randy (great win), and went 1-1 with Mir. to me, that’s not a resumé of a champ. don’t get me wrong, he could end up winning his next 10 fights against great competition, that would make a world of difference, but today he’s still green to me.
Don’t let anger get in the way of comprehension
Brock has this whole 2x NCAA wrasslin champ thing going for him
What is Brock takes out Abongo faster than Rogers?
Keep firing Assholes!
Blackout is always right
this is not wrasslin
this is MMA, Rolles Gracie had big things before making the move to MMA too I’m not comparing both btw, but just because Brock was a 2x NCAA champ does not mean he all of the sudden has a good resumé in MMA…
Don’t let anger get in the way of comprehension
comparing Lesnar and Brett
I’m sure Lesnar cold have as padded a record as Rodgers while fighting
Chris Clark- 7-26 ?!?!?!?
Stan Strong 0-1 ?
Mark Racine 0-2
Ralph Kelly 5-10??
James Thompson and Jon Murphey
so now with those 6 wins against horrible fighters lesnars record is duh duh duh 10-1 the exact same as rodgers,
except you know Brock didn’t fight those 6 cans and instead fought an ex ufc champion in his second mma fight
so yea saying rodgers has a better resume than Brock is pretty ass backwards
by jackmerridew on Mar 13, 2010 5:26 PM EST up reply actions
Fedor got his status from beating Nog. He has never lost that status. He has beaten CroCOp who was an up and comer killer at the time , Timmy, who was only 1 fight removed from fighting for the interim belt, AA who was top 10 and a very dangerous Rogers.
The whole thing started with him beatring Nog. The other things are just the cherry on top.
nobody is BROCKLESSSSSNARRRR :p
the same could be said to JDS, Shogun, Paulo Thiago among others. There is a bunch of fighters in the UFC who were not training their whole life.
Don’t let anger get in the way of comprehension
CAINVELASQUEZ!!!!!!!!!!
Give him some more time, speed kills.
Keep firing Assholes!
Blackout is always right
I'm just saying
that training your whole life and discovering MMA in your late teens can sometimes have the same end result. sometimes great fighters are late boomers.
Don’t let anger get in the way of comprehension
Cain may very well be the champ one day. His cardio + wrestling are a tough thing to match. We haven’t seen his sub defense yet which is the only question. Sure he can be knocked out by a HW but ugh name me someone who can’t.
I don’t see Cain beating Brock though that is a really bad matchup for him.
I agree he is great and still currently the best at HW but in the same time it is dumb to say he couldn’t beat anybody in the UFC it would be also dumb to say nobody in the UFC could beat him. Fedor is still great and despite coming off some solid wins he has seemed beatable. Somebody still has to do it but id like the other top hw’s to have a crack at it.
"Frank Mir had a horseshoe up his ass. I told him a year ago. I pulled it out of him and I beat him over the head with it." Brock Lesnar
obviouisly...
there are guys in the ufc that fedor could beat — fedor is a top ten HW. I meant to say that there are no ‘marketable’ fights for him in the UFC that he would be the likely winner (i suppose someone could say that kimbo would be marketable). If you remember, Dana was talking about giving him Lesnar, right off the bat.
Faber, Florian, Nick Diaz, 'Mayhem', Mousasi, Fedor
I hate when people say Fedor has to beat 1-3 or 1-5 of the UFC’s top HW to prove himself. What? Being the PRIDE champ and beating Arlovski and Sylvia doesn’t prove anything? There is only 1 fight I am dying to see, and that’s Fedor vs Brock. Or whomever ends up as champ between Brock, Mir, Carwin, Cain, and JDS. After that there’s nothing left to prove: he was the best in 2003 and we’ll know if he’s still the best in 2010.
by John Nash on Mar 13, 2010 2:38 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
to me, there is always something to prove
but I agree with you that he’s done enough to still be the #1 HW in the world today, but if SF does not update their HW division in the following years, and he stays in SF, I could see him losing that position.
Don’t let anger get in the way of comprehension
My hope, Fedor takes on Werdum, Overeem, and maybe Barnett on a NYE show, and goes 3-0.In the UFC JDS (after GG) meets Cain and the winner of that gets the winner of Brock vs Mir/Carwin. From that mini-tourney we’ll have an uncontested UFC champ. Now Zuffa and m-1 can get together, come to some sort of agreement for one last fight for Fedor vs the UFC HW. Winner of that is unquestionably the HW champ of the Universe. Now all questions will have been answered and we can quit watching mma.
by John Nash on Mar 13, 2010 2:53 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
It would yake 9 years
to get Fedor to fight those 3.
MJ was the man when he played for the Bulls not so much when he played for the Wizards. Just because he was the man in pride that doesnt make him the man today. The guys currently in the UFC HW division is a different breed then Pride. The best fight the best something fedor has done inconsistently his entire career.
"Frank Mir had a horseshoe up his ass. I told him a year ago. I pulled it out of him and I beat him over the head with it." Brock Lesnar
wasn't
MJ old when he went to the wizards? after his baseball stint? Fedor is still young, and never stopped doing MMA. there is a difference, I don’t think that example is the same.
Don’t let anger get in the way of comprehension
Im just saying what he did 5+ years ago against guys who have struggled in the UFC is irrelevant now. The guys UFC currently have could be the best crop of HW’s ever. The HW has always been weak and is just now getting some depth. Id like to see the #1 in the mix instead of on the outside looking in facing whoever they can scape up.
"Frank Mir had a horseshoe up his ass. I told him a year ago. I pulled it out of him and I beat him over the head with it." Brock Lesnar
beating arlovski/sylvia
Proved nothing. Look at those guys now. They weren’t the best then, and they are jokes now.
Faber, Florian, Nick Diaz, 'Mayhem', Mousasi, Fedor
For Arlovski the jury is out for where he stands. He went into the Fedor fight on a 5 fight win streak. And since he won his last three fights in the UFC and beat current UFC fighters Rothwell and Roy Nelson afterwards, I think it’s safe to assume he was UFC caliber at that point. The question is how does he bounce back from consecutive KOs?
by John Nash on Mar 13, 2010 3:05 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
he should have lost to big country. That fight was a joke. The other fights didn’t really say much — they shouldn’t have boosted him as far as they did. Why is the jury out on arlovski and not sylvia — sylvia beat arlovski twice in a row.
Faber, Florian, Nick Diaz, 'Mayhem', Mousasi, Fedor
He should have lost? The ref fucked up, but he didn’t save Arlovski from losing. Roy went for kimura twice, Andrei defended it both times. Maybe the third attempt would be successful, maybe not. The ref should get shit this for that fight, not Arlovski.
by dancingChicken on Mar 14, 2010 9:08 AM EDT up reply actions
Arlofski needs to get his guard together...
shitty take down defense, poor jiu jitsu — but you’re right, the ref fucked up. We didn’t see any stand-ups during the UF and Nelson Arlovski’d everyone to a victory, I say he would have done the same to arlovski.
Faber, Florian, Nick Diaz, 'Mayhem', Mousasi, Fedor
He crucified Kimbo and the other tired fat guy. I wouldn’t extrapolate too much from that fact.
by dancingChicken on Mar 14, 2010 1:58 PM EDT up reply actions
accually it is Dana White being a genious
The reason Fedor didnt sign with the UFC is because Dana refused to “co-promote”.
" Im surprised GSP can get his jeans on with all these people clinging to his nuts"- Dan Hardy
they would have allowed them to walk in with M1 logos all over the place
frankly I think that would be more exposure than M1 is getting today with CBS/SF. Again, M1=stupid!
Don’t let anger get in the way of comprehension
They could have slapped M-1 logos on every square inch of fedor and the UFC would have been fine with that.
Keep firing Assholes!
Blackout is always right
putting logo's up isnt the same as co-promoting
I completly agree with orcus that they would have gotten more exposure by just having there logos in the ufc ring. Then again we wouldnt be able to see another promotion die at the hands of M-1 if he signed with the ufc
" Im surprised GSP can get his jeans on with all these people clinging to his nuts"- Dan Hardy
Fact is UFC is the only place where Fedor isnt needed. they made it this far without him and will continue to do so. They can have there little logos but there will never come a time you will see UFC co promotion just for the fact nobody is on there level.
"Frank Mir had a horseshoe up his ass. I told him a year ago. I pulled it out of him and I beat him over the head with it." Brock Lesnar
I’m not sure the whole WWE vs. WCW is a good example to use when making the argument that competition makes everyone better. Considering that was unsustainable competition. I mean Strikeforce would have to be the WCW in that equation. Which isn’t so good for Strikeforce because WCW was overpaying a lot of their top guys and losing a shit load of money. Which forced them to eventually pull the plug…. on second thought that could be the road Strikeforce is going down.
The point is the argument for competition makes everything better would be so much better if the go to example was that of a sustained competition in the market place. Not that of a short term unsustainable experiment that incurred huge losses of money for one side that eventually forced them to sell.
Just BE.
What is funny is people are upset because UFC is becoming or already is a Monopoly. M1! has helped every step of the way. Every company they cling too dies and UFC comes in and picks threw the wreckage. M1! has helped UFC become the Juggernaut it is by sucking the life out of any other 2nd tier org on the rise out there.
"Frank Mir had a horseshoe up his ass. I told him a year ago. I pulled it out of him and I beat him over the head with it." Brock Lesnar
i tried to make this argument to kid nate
about fifteen minutes ago on another thread.
i also find it a bit ridiculous to characterize the media as being on a smear campaign to turn m1 into the bad guy and then go on to mention the litany of shady and destructive business deals m1 is evidently to blame for.
ufc is shady, m1 is shady. the differences: the ufc is lining MANY more people’s pockets and the ufc’s business model seems sustainable with room for slow growth.
I'm just trying to cover multiple aspects of the story
I really think the facts of their behavior speak to M-1’s character, without the need for hyperbole like “blood sucking monsters”
Follow me on Twitter @KidNate
Oh Kid Nate
You really do love that stereotype, don’t you?
by Patrick John McGreevy on Mar 13, 2010 2:17 PM EST reply actions
The one
about you hating kittens
by Patrick John McGreevy on Mar 13, 2010 2:39 PM EST up reply actions
It occurs to me that the way M1 does business...
mirrors everything that is wrong with Boxing today.
I hope Dana and Co don’t given much, if at all, to get Fedor in the door if that is on the horizon.
The bigger question here is, why is Vadim wearing a UFC shirt?
I told you not to f*ck with me.
by Romoesbueno on Mar 13, 2010 2:29 PM EST reply actions 2 recs
In Russian UFC = Kopromotion
Keep firing Assholes!
Blackout is always right
by Ubernoober on Mar 13, 2010 2:31 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
I may change my mind when I see Fedor and Brock in the cage together
but, at the moment I honestly don’t want Fedor in the UFC.
All the bullshit that comes with M-1 would drive me nuts. My tolerance for politics in my sports is extrememly low.
I’m still not over the last hockey strike/lockout.
Watch the world Juniors for good hockey without the political BS.
Keep firing Assholes!
Blackout is always right
100% Correct.
The World Juniors is the only Hockey I watch religiously.
Damn straight. Gary Bettman makes me angry. I don’t like him.
Keep firing Assholes!
Blackout is always right
Send
Chris Chelios his address, I hear they are pals.
you might be pissed next year for another reason
If the NFL doesnt strike a deal this year they are going to have a lockout after next season
" Im surprised GSP can get his jeans on with all these people clinging to his nuts"- Dan Hardy
They’re unlikely to cancel any regular season games, though.
Bolts from the Blue // "He looks like a catfish" - Nick Hardwick on Brandon Siler
Bloody Elbow // " looks like your comment violated rule #4. and it’s a heck of a rule, rule #4" - Kid Nate
by Richard Wade on Mar 13, 2010 4:49 PM EST up reply actions
Just a couple quick points.
This M-1 parnoia is a bit overblown. Obviously, they were unahppy with th lack of prominence the M-1 name was given during the broadcast. Maybe they just want to have a 30 second blurb about how busy they are promoting fights around the world and doing their best to bring more MMA to fans everywhere. This whole “renogiation” isn’t about compensation but about making sure the viewer knows who m1 is.
I cant get over how nice Scott Coker is. I see no point in unneccessarily competing against Reed Harriss either. Scott and Reed are probably friends or at least respect each other a great deal. However, it should be clear to Coker by now that Zuffa is taking SF as a serious threat to their dominance. That means he should EXPECT to be counter programmed at every show he puts on. His statement about the 17th being a good time becasue there is nothing else MMA related on TV that day doesn’t acknowledge reality as we know it. Of course, there will be a Zuffa broadcast on that night. The only question has been will it be a live broadcast or a PPV replay of some sort. Scott, please realize Zuffa made it neccessary for to compete aginst Reed. There is no gentelman’s agreement in this business right now! You (Scott) had the perfect opporitunity to go up against a weak WEC PPV but instead you’ve decided to give away a million viewers to the latest PPV replay on SPike.
I think SF will be fine and CBS will be ok the the ratings but they need to maximize every opporitunity and they let one slip by.
I cant get over how nice Scott Coker is. I see no point in unneccessarily competing against Reed Harriss either. Scott and Reed are probably friends or at least respect each other a great deal.
LOL! LMAO!
I can’t believe people are falling for Coker’s bullshit.
by MMAGuard on Mar 13, 2010 3:52 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
So you would dispute that Coer and Reed respect each other? Everyone who has discussions with him always comments about how straightforward and how awesome he is to talk to. Maybe you can find some people who say otherwise but I doubt it. In any event it’s hard to understand why he wouldn’t take advabtage of such a great opporitunity. SInce you dont fall for his bullshit maybe you can proffer a coherent reason why they would not go up aginst the WEC. Maybe they actually believe ZUffa wont counter with anything. I dont know , but you must some insight that I dont.
SInce you dont fall for his bullshit maybe you can proffer a coherent reason why they would not go up aginst the WEC
Because Showtime boxing is running their biggest event of the year on the 24th. They didn’t choose the 17th because they are nice. They chose it because they don’t want to compete with their own broadcast partner.
Also, Strikeforce shows are produced by Showtime’s production team. Obviously, that team is a little busy on the 24th. By running their show on the 17th, Strikeforce ensured they can get Showtime’s top in-house production team rather than a bunch of hacks hired to produce a one-off event.
Being ‘nice’ had nothing to do with the choice to avoid the 24th.
Could be, but hte latest news item suggests that there is very little overlap between boxing and MMA fans. Therefore there would be very little “competition” for viewers since it is largely a seperate audience. As for broadcasting, I think CBS can handle an MMA broadcast on their own. It’s not like Mauro and the crew will be at th boxing venue.
As for broadcasting, I think CBS can handle an MMA broadcast on their own.
Strikeforce is not on the sports side of the CBS business. It is run out of the entertainment division. That is why they rely on Showtime to do the production. I highly doubt that CBS Entertainment would feel comfortable producing a live sports event.
Dont you wish SF could get up in the Zuffa's grill?
The main point I’m making is that going head to head with Zuffa in this case would be smart because it would give them the certainty that they dont have now. All of Zuffa PPV advertising would also benefit the SF show. They would easily kill them in viewers, AND it does create a little “wow factor” for ballsiness in letting the Frititas feel effects of counter programming in a they haven’t before.
They need to create an image of UFC and Strikeforce on the same level and this could be an effective to start that effort.
The fact that they are not doing that is undoubtedly due to multiple factors one of which could easily be maintaining the current image and reputation that Coker has right now. It probably would upset some folks at Showtime if SF had the show on the same date and Coker doesn’t want to risk offending anyone important over there.
I agree "nice " was a bad choice of words on my part. His shrewdness and consertvative behavior have the effect of appearing nice but it obviously goes beyond niceness.
I think the UFc should do the co promotion. It’s not so much of a bowing to the Russians than Dana makes it out to be. Sure , you want your name over our product ? Ok we only co promote the fights with Fedor. Fedor has to fight who we want, Brock first, Mir next, Cain Carwin or JDS next. You put Fedor through the gauntlet. He likely won’t win every match. Once he gets a loss you can tarnish the undefeated image and rightfully resume the UFC having the best champion in the world.
Make Fedor fight Brock 3 fights in a row hell. If Brock can brutalize him it would destroy his mystique and aura. Sign to the russians and try to break Fedor however you can.
your missing the point. Co-promote doesnt mean just have their name all over the place. The UFC said they would do that.
M-1 wants half of the profits for fedors shows. if you think that is good buisness for the UFC i wont be able to discuss this with you any further.
Lets say
that Brocks PPV makes the UFC $40 million no matter who he is fighting. The UFC should just give M1 $20 million because it is Fedor? Fuck that. That is an awful business plan. And if Fedor loses to Brock? Lets say Fedor fights JDS next, and the PPV profit is $30 million. Zuffa would pay another $15 million to m1?
The only way I could see co promoting with M1 would be if they has 200 good fighters under contract and half of the top 10 being unde M1 control.
The Frititas already said that the casino regulators would require extensive background checks on any party that they do business with and the the regulatory burden would be too excessive to be feasible. They should just estimate what the profits owuld be for having Fedor on a PPV and just agree to pay a portion of that to M-1 once the fight is over.
The UFC can’t co-promote with M-1 just for Fedor because that would open the box. Then anyone that beats Fedor wants what Fedor had and more. They don’t want to open that box. They got the business model that works for them. They don’t need to go changing it for M-1 and Fedor.
On the same note I’m wondering where the open box will lead to with James Toney’s non-exclusive contract. Since they gave Toney a non-exclusive contract so he can box you can bet some other fighter will think it’s beneficial to them to have the same thing. The UFC has to be careful opening the box to certain things.
Just BE.
they opened the box with toney because Toney will never be a champ. They don’t care if toney breaks his hand boxing. If they open the box with Fedor and M-1, the next thing that will happen is that GSP will demand copromotion with his new company Fleur de Lis fighting or something like that.
Keep firing Assholes!
Blackout is always right
Toney will never be champ but they opened the box. Now if Anderson Silva wants to try boxing he can argue they let James Toney have that option why can’t he have that option. They opened the box to let other fighters that deserve more than Toney use the non-exclusive contract Toney got as a bargaining chip.
Just BE.
There would be no opening of Pandora’s box. Unless you can find another undefeated HW fighter who hasnt lost since 2000. Fedor is special. He should be treated as such.
For the 2 or 3 fights Fedor will be around I think it’s worth the millions. Get him in get someone to beat his ass and get him out.
Fedor is the HW king right now. UFC needs to reclaim there dominance.
M-1 doesn’t have to co-promote down the middle. Make it a 80/20 split or something for just Fedor’s fights. It would only last for a couple of fights. There isn’t a fighter like Fedor who could mimic him in manipulating the system so this would be a one-time occurance.
Reclaim their dominance?
WTF did I miss in MMA news?
PS- I don’t need to find an undefeated HW, they are already in the UFC.
you must have been living under a rock the past year. the ufc tried everything to get Fedor in the UFC.
-sambo? fight sambo till your ears bleed
M-1 exposure? well slap that shitty logo all over everything while fedor fights.
Money ? they offered him a kings ransom
they only thing they wouldnt budge on was co-promotion. M-1 and fedor are keeping fedor from fighting in the UFC.
Fedor isn’t a big draw though. There are fighters in the UFC that will make the UFC more money than Fedor could. So if they cave to Fedor and M-1 to give them what they want then what are they going to do for the fighters that will actually make them more money.
For example… Brock has proven to be a huge draw that makes the UFC a lot of money. If Brock makes the company more money then Fedor then he deserves more than Fedor. If Fedor is worth co-promotion then what is Brock Lesnar worth? There is a box there they just don’t need to open.
Just BE.
Vadim spends 50% of his time answering question about the UFC.
by snakecharmer1340 on Mar 13, 2010 5:41 PM EST reply actions
P4P best post
haha
On Y2K Alex Jones was on the radio yelling that Russian was nuking the USA.
Now is this an indictment of Alex Jones, or an indictment of Jones' fans.
It seems as though people love being lied to & having their money stolen from them.
Viva L' America
Yea 50-50 is too much… I could have sword Coker said it wasn’t 50-50 between M1 and SF.
Yea business wise Fedor coming here doesn’t matter. But the appeal to Dana’s inner fight fan has shown to be just as important if not more important than simply business and making money.
Dana has showed us time and time again sure he makes money but he puts on fights the fans want to see. He has done a great job of this and I wish there was someway to get htis shit done!
------------------------------------------------^^ Use me.
It will make your comments easier to follow.
Sorry I always forget. Never posted too much on here.
It just the fight fan in me that needs to see this fight. Tyson not fighting Evander in his prime has killed me. I will always hate the fact that we can’t see the biggest fights for one reason or another.
The likelihood of Fedor leaving M-1 is almost zero. The likelihood of M-1 changing their stance is zero.
Sure the UFC would have to sacrifice. But there will never ever be another fighter like Fedor. MMA is to competitive nowadays. He is like the freakin unicorn or something.
In the end in history if this fight doesn’t happen it will be a sore spot.
Keeping things in perspective UFC would not be effected by co-promoting for a fight or two in the end.
UFC can split 50/50 until Fedor loses without damaging any business functions or losing that much profit.
For a fight that may very well be the biggest fight in the history of the sport I think you have to make this deal.
There will never be another fighter who can pressure UFC like this. This will not open Pandora’s box. They don’t make 30-1 undefeated HW champs lol (30-1 undefeated)
In ten yrs twenty yrs we can look back as this being a success.
Fedor may very well stay undefeated fighting people outside the UFC. He may very well retire undefeated. I do not want this to happen. If he is undefeated I need to see him beat Brock.
This is just a fight fan’s perspective these damn russians wont budge. Fuck it they want to act like Fedor is a god prove it. If he does get beat fuck him and dump him like yesterdays garbage.
M-1 will never be able to promote Fedor as the best again. We will never have to hear of this nonsense again.
This M-1 shit is ruining things like boxing does. I say fuck it give them what they want and when he fails throw him away like he was nothing and promote the hell out of he never fought any real HW angle. If he does succeed then he is the demigod he is claimed to be and UFC losing half on 5 or 6 cards wont kill their business.
If the UFC
co promotes with Fedor, then Penn, GSP, Brcok and every other huge draw will leave the UFC when their current contract expires. They craete a promotion and hold the UFC hostage until they get an M1 or better split. All of those fighters are a better draw than Fedor so they could demand more money.
Business is business, Wandy is worth more than Fedor on paper because he is a bigger draw, not a better fighter. I don’t think there is a HW alive that can make it through the top 5-6 fighters in the UFC and come out undefeated. If someone thinks Brock or Fedor will, they are delusional. Fedor loses ALL of his value when he gets defeated, Brock lost none. It is what sells in MMA. Fedor is not worth co promotion, he most likely wasn’t worth what the UFC last offered him.
Anti russian sentiments have always helped in the US.
it’s not different with the UFC,M1 and Fedor.
M-1 and Fedor have lost any credibility.
This is just amazing. How messed up can these get? It sucks being a fan and watching these idiots turn MMA into boxing. Don King, Vadim Fincklestein. Whats the difference. All the UFC/ Dana White haters, What you think about Fedor now?
Please get a new premise
“Even if the UFC manages to sign Fedor and become for a while the only player that matters at all in big-time MMA, it will be very hard to keep every champion in every division on lock down forever.”
Yeah right, and I see Federer and Nadal jumping over to an ATP competitor when Sampras and Agassi want to mash little yellow balls for a living again. This is an argument that is past it’s ‘used by’ date. Fedor as possibly a “P4P Top3” outside the UFC is a dinosaur. Sorry to disappoint all the Strikeforce HW supporters.
“the temerity to bristle at signing away all rights to your own likeness” – Fowlkes.
Ammend that to say, “for free”.
It don’t believe it was “for free”.
I think I remember reading every fighter that got put in the game got paid something. Also any time their image is used on merchandise they get a certain percentage.
Just BE.
The likeness deal was for the video game not for all marketing, what Fitch signed away was his video game likeness rights, he can still have his own merchandise. The UFC was trying to get guys to sign a exclusive marketing deal that did pay them but it was for all marketing and it was optional. Guys did get screwed over on the video game deal but it was just the video game deal.
Fedor like many other big stars in the UFC would have the leverage to negotiate on that kind of stuff. Heck Randy Couture is going to be in the EA video game and you know his likeness rights are his own. Fedor would be able negotiate on that issue where as John Fitch just didn’t have the leverage.
Even if the UFC manages to sign Fedor and become for a while the only player that matters at all in big-time MMA, it will be very hard to keep every champion in every division on lock down forever.
Um what?, the UFC is the only mma player that matter and they already have all the champions in every division on lock between the UFC and WEC.
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