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James Toney Calls Out UFC Champ Brock Lesnar as Freddie Roach Says the UFC is "Using" Toney

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Well you can't say James Toney doesn't know how to generate hype. Here's a press release from Inside MMA:

Tonight on HDNet's "Inside MMA," one of UFC's newest fighters, former heavyweight boxing champion James "Lights Out" Toney, who scored a major victory in 2003 overEvander Holyfield, tells Kenny and Bas he wants to fight Brock Lesnar.  "I want Brock Lesnar," says Toney.  "I'm the heavyweight champion of the world vs. the UFC champion. That'd be a hell of a match ... I'll fight anybody you got."  
...

This week, renowned boxing trainer Freddie Roach enters Kruck's Korner to talk about working with BJ Penn, Anderson Silva and other MMA fighters.  Freddie also tells Ron which boxer he believes would make the best mixed martial artist.

Speaking of Freddie Roach, he had some comments yesterday on Toney in the UFC:

Crave Online:  What do you think of MMA?

Freddie Roach: I had two guys fight last night.  They had 5 MMA fights and 5 boxing matches each, so I'm around the fighters a lot.  I like the standing part of it better.  Two guys on the ground doesn't appeal to me but I understand there's a science to it.  I've had a few fighters: Andre Arlovski, BJ Penn, Anderson Silva, Tito Ortiz and I work with those guys occasionally.  They all have talent.

Crave Online:  What do you think of James Toney in MMA (he just signed with UFC)?

Freddie Roach: I think they're using James as a way to say MMA fighters are better than boxers.  If he fights a quality ground guy, once he goes to the ground he's gonna get killed.  But If a guy chooses to stand up with James, James is gonna destroy him.  That's why they call him "Lights Out".  I really don't think there's one fighter in MMA that could stand with James.    

To which Zak Woods replied:   

What?!

The UFC using an out shape, over-the-hill fighter for their own gain? That will never happen...

Look, the UFC still doesn't even know what to do with James Toney an the more WKR thinks about the situation, the more likely it seems that Zuffa signed Toney as they didn't want to see him in Strikeforce. Why else would there be so much uncertainty from the UFC on what to do with James? To quote The Hunt for Red October "People from Zuffa don't take a dump, son, without a plan" (we changed a word, guess which one?). But in this instance there doesn't seem to be much of a prepared plan other than having Toney signed to a non-exclusive contract. 

Perhaps the UFC was hoping to use Toney on the reported counter of Strikeforce this April but as there hasn't been any mainstream press regarding the Toney signing --like there was with Herschel Walker-- it is plausible that the UFC is unsure about pulling the trigger and would rather bluff about the March card in an attempt to get Strikeforce to switch dates.

I completely agree with Zak. I think it is clear that the UFC signed Toney after seeing the kind of attention Strikeforce got from the Herschel Walker fight and wanted to head a Walker vs Toney freak show fight off at the pass.

A James Toney vs Brock Lesnar match is a pretty laughable proposition, but if Toney were to surprise everyone by reeling off a couple of decent wins in the UFC, I think that hype would be impossible for anyone involved to resist.

We'll see if it ends up being a win or a black eye for the UFC and MMA.

Star-divide

HT: hd.net

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I don't know what is worse

Toney vs Walker in Strikeforce
or Toney in the UFC.

I am. I think. I will. - Ayn Rand

by vivero on Mar 12, 2010 12:35 PM EST reply actions  

Walker = football

Toney = Boxer
One is a combat sport, one isn’t.

by Riney on Mar 12, 2010 6:11 PM EST up reply actions  

Now this statement is just ridiculous...
but if Toney were to surprise everyone by reeling off a couple of decent wins in the UFC, I think that hype would be impossible for anyone involved to resist.

by bleve_ on Mar 12, 2010 12:39 PM EST reply actions  

I agree. He is obviously a joke. He probably thinks he can just win a fight based on his boxing skills a lone whcih he could if it were in a ring with no ground rules..he doesn’t seem to understand there is a whole different world that fighters train in for YEARS before they are able to compete at an adequate level.

Even some of the pure bangers in MMA have been training for YEARS in BJJ.

This guy is going to get taken down and choked out quick. His fights will probably resemble all of Bob Sapps recent fights.

by LtotheK on Mar 12, 2010 12:42 PM EST up reply actions  

Well obviously he’d get destroyed on the ground, that’s not what’s being discussed. IF (a big IF) he were to KO a couple guys before it ever hit the ground, there’s a very high possibility they’d throw him in for the strap. You gotta remember the UFC puts business first and that would be the best business move.

"I fight because I can’t sing, I can’t dance, and it beats working all day. Now ask me a question that doesn’t sound so fucking stupid." – Phil Baroni

by midwestbred on Mar 12, 2010 12:59 PM EST up reply actions  

Im not so sure you can count on every fighter being able to take him down

Especially before he can land a punch. Ray Mercer, whom is much older, and far less polished, far less foot work, far less defense, far less hand speed was able to employ this tactic on Sylvia. You really think Toney would not be able to?

by ALL4MMA on Mar 12, 2010 1:40 PM EST up reply actions  

I put that Tim fight under the “got caught” category, I doubt it would happen 10/10 and against an in shape Timmey, but I do believe fighters with basic to no ground skills that James has a shot at, but those are a few in the UFC.

Don’t let anger get in the way of comprehension

by Orcus on Mar 12, 2010 1:49 PM EST up reply actions  

Yeah, this. That fight was a perfect storm of ridiculous and awesome. Tim came in in terrible shape and looked like he wasn’t taking fighting seriously at all, against a guy with murderous power in tiny gloves. He deserved what he got, no doubt, but everything had to go wrong for it to happen.

"I'm AJB and I endorse this nut-puncher."

by AJB on Mar 12, 2010 1:52 PM EST up reply actions  

Granted

But I think we can safely say that Toney would make Mercer look like a monkey in a boxing match. He is light years beyond him in the boxing department. And if he could employ his movement against guys with a limited ground game and land combination’s, I doubt they would last long. If Alexander Houston, whom most would say is relatively helpless on the ground could do it, then there is no reason to believe that Toney couldn’t.

by ALL4MMA on Mar 12, 2010 2:03 PM EST up reply actions  

Point.

"I'm AJB and I endorse this nut-puncher."

by AJB on Mar 12, 2010 1:55 PM EST up reply actions  

When Toney closes in to get into range to throw those combinations he’d be in leg kick range far before he’d be able to punch.

by YoungGun on Mar 12, 2010 2:09 PM EST up reply actions  

Probably

J T is 5’10" with slow feet. He needs guy to come to him for his boxing to work. All those guys except Barry are much taller with more reach ( almost all other HWs on the planet as well). Any fighter with decent kicks and/or ground beats him 9/10 times (I hope I’m wrong). IMO he is much to small to compete with these guys (Iike a very blown up Terry Martin). I think Kimbo would gnp him out after a highlight reel slam.

by BigMatt801 on Mar 12, 2010 3:10 PM EST up reply actions  

As old as Mercer is, If Sylvia just wanted to jab the shit out of Mercer on that fight, he would have been still KOed.

I am. I think. I will. - Ayn Rand

by vivero on Mar 12, 2010 1:55 PM EST up reply actions  

I'm not so sure

Timmey has a huge reach advantage on Mercer (I think, not sure), if he were to stay away from fighting at close range and kept the jabs I think he could get away with it, problem is on that fight he went right in towards Mercer.

Don’t let anger get in the way of comprehension

by Orcus on Mar 12, 2010 2:10 PM EST up reply actions  

i think Mercer can catch any HW in 15 minutes if they choose to exclusively box

I am. I think. I will. - Ayn Rand

by vivero on Mar 12, 2010 2:22 PM EST up reply actions  

that could be true

to tell you the truth I’m no boxing fan therefore I don’t know much about his skills.

Don’t let anger get in the way of comprehension

by Orcus on Mar 12, 2010 2:26 PM EST up reply actions  

They were also fighting under some hybrid rules to encourage standup over takedowns. I remember the announcer commenting that Tim wasn’t supposed to be kicking. Thinking back on it, besides being out of shape and not taking the fight seriously it seemed Tim was conflicted in his instincts vs what he knew were the rules. You can kind of tell he reacted the way he was trained for so many years then stopped himself and reset then got lit up.

by YoungGun on Mar 12, 2010 2:13 PM EST up reply actions  

Well, I think this is all presumptive and highly speculative

We talk about past boxers foray into MMA and what has happened to them. But none were on the level of James Toney, whom has 6 losses out of 81 professional fights and was at the top or near the top of every division from MW to HW and won world titles in all of them as well. Yes, he is now 41 and could have gas tank issues and any number of other things going against him as well as being 5’10. But he just as recent as 2 years ago beat several top 10 HW’s in boxing. I just would not get surprised if he does better than all of you are predicting.

by ALL4MMA on Mar 12, 2010 4:46 PM EST up reply actions  

I agree that Toney has the fighting mind and skills to put up a good fight in an MMA rule set. I was commenting on the fact that people talk about what happened to Silvia against Mercer like it was a regular MMA match…There were special hybrid rules set up to basically make it a boxing match in a cage. People seem to forget that when they start using it as an example of a MMA fighter standing up with a pro boxer. It wasn’t even just a stand up only fight. there were also rules for no kicks. Tim was dumb enough to agree to fight with those rules and not take it seriously. To be honest I think he could have won if it was a standard unified rules MMA fight, even without taking it seriously and being out of shape.

by YoungGun on Mar 16, 2010 4:13 PM EDT up reply actions  

well

it’s highly unlikely, but stranger things have happened.
and IF Toney gets lucky twice, I guarantee you he’ll get a title shot.
Won’t happen in a million years, but….fun speculation.

Follow me on Twitter @KidNate

by Kid Nate on Mar 12, 2010 12:43 PM EST up reply actions  

Damn Nate,
After talking about Zuffa being in trouble now you are thinking about Toney getting a title shot. Are you related to Nash or something? lol.

I am. I think. I will. - Ayn Rand

by vivero on Mar 12, 2010 12:50 PM EST up reply actions  

who's Nash?

Follow me on Twitter @KidNate

by Kid Nate on Mar 12, 2010 1:06 PM EST up reply actions  

"I fight because I can’t sing, I can’t dance, and it beats working all day. Now ask me a question that doesn’t sound so fucking stupid." – Phil Baroni

by midwestbred on Mar 12, 2010 1:17 PM EST up reply actions  

beautiful mind movie

I am. I think. I will. - Ayn Rand

by vivero on Mar 12, 2010 1:19 PM EST up reply actions  

ah

Follow me on Twitter @KidNate

by Kid Nate on Mar 12, 2010 1:39 PM EST up reply actions  

I am. I think. I will. - Ayn Rand

by vivero on Mar 12, 2010 1:43 PM EST up reply actions  

so explain how the comment makes sense

i know the guy was smart and crazy and died in the end.

Follow me on Twitter @KidNate

by Kid Nate on Mar 12, 2010 2:36 PM EST up reply actions  

lets just leave it at smart and crazy.

I am. I think. I will. - Ayn Rand

by vivero on Mar 12, 2010 2:41 PM EST up reply actions  

lol

i’ll take that

Follow me on Twitter @KidNate

by Kid Nate on Mar 12, 2010 4:16 PM EST up reply actions  

John Nash is still alive. My roommate took a game theory lecture with him last semester.

We're just a million little gods causin' rain storms, turning every good thing to rust.

by Anthony Pace on Mar 12, 2010 9:38 PM EST via mobile up reply actions  

Why?

Other than the fact that it’s not likely.

by HappyLittleTreez on Mar 12, 2010 12:43 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

Didn’t Toney get some mainstream media attention from signing with the UFC? I thought he did. and if you sign someone so someone else don’t sign him, you are kind of using him… just saying…

Don’t let anger get in the way of comprehension

by Orcus on Mar 12, 2010 12:39 PM EST reply actions  

I assume Zak was pertaining to using Toney as a way prove that MMA is better than boxing. Though, I agree with what you said.

I am. I think. I will. - Ayn Rand

by vivero on Mar 12, 2010 12:42 PM EST up reply actions  

yeah, I guess it makes sense under that context :p

Don’t let anger get in the way of comprehension

by Orcus on Mar 12, 2010 12:45 PM EST up reply actions  

I think that truth is that they’re using each other; and that’s not all that different than the situation for a lot of fighters. What makes it different is the scale, the publicity, and the stakes. But it’s a difference of degree, not of kind. It’s smart business on both parts. All Toney had to do if he didn’t want to be “used” by the UFC was not, you know, run around trying to get them to do so. He was selling a product, a product that happens to be called James Toney, and he sold it pretty damn well. Now the UFC will use the product that they purchased, and probably make a lot of money off of it. Just like Toney will.

Also, vivero is right; I think Dana and the Fertittas, who are actually boxing fans, wouldn’t bother with that. They want boxing fans’ eyeballs and wallets; they couldn’t care less about boxing fans’ pride.

"I'm AJB and I endorse this nut-puncher."

by AJB on Mar 12, 2010 1:22 PM EST up reply actions  

zzzzzzzzz

This guy wants a paycheck, that is it.

I always think back to Houston Alexander when they always ask him how he is doing with his BJJ..and he says something like “I know all of that stuff, I’m good”. And then he absolutely struggles his very next fight. They don’t care. They just want a paycheck.

You can tell the ignorant fighters looking for a paycheck..

by LtotheK on Mar 12, 2010 12:39 PM EST reply actions  

Don’t mistake Toney wanting a pay cheque – which IS true – for Toney not having pride. He’s a fighter, and he does not like losing. He may not train properly, and he may have way over-estimated his own skills, but Toney will not sign on to a fight that he doesn’t think he has a chance of winning. He cares because he doesn’t want to be made to look like a fool. Problem is, between the selection of possible opponents and Toney’s giant ego, that might be unavoidable.

"I'm AJB and I endorse this nut-puncher."

by AJB on Mar 12, 2010 1:27 PM EST up reply actions  

There’s also a difference between ignorance and not admitting to your opponent that in the year you’ve been training ground you haven’t been able to advance your game to the level of people who have been training in the ground game their entire life.

How did I end up on this bandwagon and why does everything say property of Chael Sonnen?

by Day Man on Mar 12, 2010 1:45 PM EST up reply actions  

I would love for them to use Toney to send a one-and-done message

BUT I think Freddie is giving the UFC brass too much credit for deviousness.

They seemed to mess around a liiiittle bit too long with the idea of pairing him up with Kimbo for that to be the only angle they’re working. I think they will actually move to preserve Toney through a couple fights and THEN put him in a big fight of some sort.

With the beating they’ve taken on recent PPV buys, it would almost be short-sighted of them to burn the Toney angle on its very first outing imo.

by LBo on Mar 12, 2010 12:45 PM EST reply actions  

the PPV sales passed through my mind as well

I hear people saying that he’s not a big draw in boxing, but making a transition into MMA I think will have a lot of boxing fans curious.

Don’t let anger get in the way of comprehension

by Orcus on Mar 12, 2010 12:48 PM EST up reply actions  

That’s true; and that’s why any fight with him seems to have a bit of that “freakshow” feel (not necessarilly in a bad way). It’s the kind of thing that people may feel compelled to watch out of curiosity, even if that curiosity has to overcome a natural apathy or even dislike.

"I'm AJB and I endorse this nut-puncher."

by AJB on Mar 12, 2010 1:28 PM EST up reply actions  

if pokin fun at toney's physique,

emelianenko will come armbar you in your sleep

"All I guarantee is violence" - Wand

by rockied on Mar 12, 2010 1:19 PM EST up reply actions  

You always seem to have the most completely appropiate pictures. Worth a thousand hamburgers… I mean… words.

"I'm AJB and I endorse this nut-puncher."

by AJB on Mar 12, 2010 1:29 PM EST up reply actions  

This photo has had allot of mileage

But in reality, it was when he was at his biggest a few years back fighting Hasim Rahman, 253 if memory serves me correct. In his last fight, he was 217 and looked much better. Recently I hear he has dipped to 215.

by ALL4MMA on Mar 12, 2010 1:35 PM EST up reply actions  

I completely agree with Zak. I think it is clear that the UFC signed Toney after seeing the kind of attention Strikeforce got from the Herschel Walker fight and wanted to head a Walker vs Toney freak show fight off at the pass.

So what are they going to do, put him on the shelf now that they’ve headed SF off? Clearly they signed him with the intention of using him as an attraction.

I’d say they signed him because they already have one freak show in Kimbo Slice that needs special treatment in terms of matchmaking… specifically, fighting people who have no ground game. Toney vs. Kimbo would be a grotesque matchup, but to the UFC, it is more appealing than letting a legitimate MMA fighter destroy your biggest TV draw.

by smoogy2 on Mar 12, 2010 12:55 PM EST reply actions  

we'll see

if they put him in with Kimbo right away then i’d agree completely. But since they seem to be slow to pull the trigger on that, it really makes me wonder if they have any plan at all for Toney.
There’s a VERY real chance that Mitrione KTFO’s Kimbo and then that golden egg is gone.

Follow me on Twitter @KidNate

by Kid Nate on Mar 12, 2010 1:10 PM EST up reply actions  

i dont understand why everyone gives mitrione so much credit. He looked like crap on the ultimate fighter. And we all know Big baby had some of the worst standup ive ever seen.

I think kimbo is going to punish mitrione because hes a better fighter.

Kimbo is a better striker, and has actually shown he he can kimboplex the fuck out of someone.

by JaTinkles on Mar 12, 2010 1:38 PM EST up reply actions  

I actually think Kimbo has a better shot than most are giving him for this fight.

Don’t let anger get in the way of comprehension

by Orcus on Mar 12, 2010 1:50 PM EST up reply actions  

i would consider him the favorite. Houston Alexander is WAY WAY WAY more legit of an opponent than Big Baby.

by JaTinkles on Mar 12, 2010 1:52 PM EST up reply actions  

I have a lot of respect for Freddie Roach

but I don’t see James Toney as having the speed or skill to stand with someone like Anderson Silva (now that would be a freakshow fight).

I like using semi-colons; they make me feel smart.

by Llewdor on Mar 12, 2010 12:59 PM EST reply actions  

Roach is really underestimating

how effective kicks are. Boxers have a terrible track record in kickboxing matches.

Follow me on Twitter @KidNate

by Kid Nate on Mar 12, 2010 1:00 PM EST up reply actions  

Cue Ray Mercer Vs Remy Bonjasky

New Orleans Saints - 2010 Super Bowl Champions. Unbelievable. Who Dat.
Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try Again. Fail again. Fail better. -Samuel Beckett

by Scott C. Broussard on Mar 12, 2010 1:30 PM EST up reply actions  

My god. That’s just silly.

by ununkvadrium on Mar 12, 2010 5:44 PM EST up reply actions  

I fixed it for you:
“now that would be a freakshowing AWESOME fight”

At least if you like the idea of somebody tearing Toney limb from limb.

Don't believe a word I say, I don't train BJJ.
I blog at TangleBones - you should follow me on Twitter here.
If you like it, you should put a rec on it.

by jemaleddin on Mar 12, 2010 1:01 PM EST up reply actions  

THANK U...

I completely agree…I wouldn’t say an over the hill old head would put any body out standing….I see somebody setting up kicks and koing him…and Brock…that would just be a hilarious massacre…im already sick of al this james toney talk but guess im kinda a hypocrite since im posting

by longevity on Mar 12, 2010 1:27 PM EST via mobile up reply actions  

Lesnar could literally end the fight inside :30 seconds. It would be the only ever appropriate use of gong-and-dash, except it would be gong-and-doubleleg-donkeykongpunches.

"I'm AJB and I endorse this nut-puncher."

by AJB on Mar 12, 2010 1:33 PM EST up reply actions  

I was surprised Roach threw in the blanket “anyone in MMA” statement since he has worked with Anderson. I think Anderson could hang with Toney in boxing, and would just kill him standing in an MMA fight. Maybe Freddie just doesn’t appreciate devastating Muay Thai.

by Kwisatz Haderach on Mar 12, 2010 10:18 PM EST up reply actions  

So Roach thinks that it’s wrong for Toney to fight an MMA fighter, because it may show that guys with well rounded MMA skills are better fighters than guys who only box? Groundbreaking.

by Hardcharger on Mar 12, 2010 1:06 PM EST reply actions  

I still say...

Put Toney up against Kimbo on SpikeTv for his first UFC fight (after Kimbo fights Mittrione). That would give James more time to get in shape and learn a few more things. I know it would be considered a “freakshow” but, the ratings and mainstream coverage would be huge. Please Dana, Go for the throat and counter the next Fedor fight with this fight and bury Strikeforce for good. I’m ready to see Mousassi, King Mo, Rogers, Shields, Diaz and Lawler fight in the octogon.

Be a man, not a child-Phil Anselmo

by ANance on Mar 12, 2010 1:08 PM EST via mobile reply actions  

Mitrione is going to damage Kimbo's

brand equity. You heard it here first.

Follow me on Twitter @KidNate

by Kid Nate on Mar 12, 2010 1:10 PM EST up reply actions  

nah I said that a while ago

So you heard it from me first!

; )

twitter.com/thisredengine

by Matthew Roth on Mar 12, 2010 1:12 PM EST up reply actions  

Shit give me some crazy hair, the room to backpeddle, and the time to throw a jab and I could damage kimbos value

"So I put 2 and 2 together and decided that your pissing me off" "Here. Its a fruit roll up. I was gonna make you a casserole for your loss but uh... I didnt"
"So its sorta like that movie the predator, except for hunting people hes takin a crap" - Carl from ATHF

by II SMASH II on Mar 12, 2010 1:26 PM EST via mobile up reply actions  

I don't think so.

Kimbo has lost before, once (twice) on national tv and once in the exibition match on Spike. People (me included) for some reason want to tune in and see him fight. Plus, Kimbo isn’t going to be in the UFC forever, might as well make sure that when he leaves that he has zero drawing power left.

Be a man, not a child-Phil Anselmo

by ANance on Mar 12, 2010 1:20 PM EST via mobile up reply actions  

That’s actually probably their thinking at this point. Mitrione is known enough from the show that he seems more legit than he is to the casuals, but the core fans know he’s nothing special. If he takes out Kimbo, then Kimbo’s rep is shot among everyone in the business; if Kimbo KOs him in spectacular fashion then he increases in value to the UFC. It’s a no-lose scenario for them, and frankly, not all that different than a match-up with Houston Alexander. Except that fight didn’t go nearly the way anyone expected.

"I'm AJB and I endorse this nut-puncher."

by AJB on Mar 12, 2010 1:36 PM EST up reply actions  

i hope he damages his brain equity. i hope he beats both the outer kimbo and kimbos "inner-me".

"When i get in there, in his face ,pressin the action,I'm RUFF NECKIN'EM,I'm throwin him around,I'm punchin him,hes punchin me, I'm eatin his shots and I'm Blastin him back in the face he's not goin to be able to handle it ." - Chris Leben on how his fight with Anderson Silva is gonna go.

by Rayce. on Mar 12, 2010 1:30 PM EST via mobile up reply actions  

I think Toney is not getting any respect here. Surely he is not getting respect comparable to guys like Drew McFredries and Cheick Kongo. Surely he doesn’t deserve that yet but you have to have him potentially being that good. We have seen plenty of guys make a career out of stand and bang with absolutley no ground ground.

Sure you have match him up with the right fighters but I for one always felt that a boxing champ’s hands are going to be a big difference in an MMA match. Toney is acting as if he may be to ignorant to pick up the rest of the game but we will see.

Even though he’s not in his prime it sure will be interesting. Put him up against 3 or 4 pure strikes.

Hell throw JDS at him right now. You know JDS wont take him down. Toney would not be the favorite but throw him in there and lets see what this world class boxing is about against a tough up an comer stand up guy. I would be very inclinded to watch.

JDS is obviously not on the title run just yet as they haven’t thrown him in with any wrestlers and if you don’t beat a couple wrestlers you have no shot against Brock. I think that’s a good match up even if it is a little freakish.

by p123 on Mar 12, 2010 1:40 PM EST reply actions  

if Toney was 31

and not 41 he’d be getting hella respect from me

Follow me on Twitter @KidNate

by Kid Nate on Mar 12, 2010 1:42 PM EST up reply actions  

You won’t see JDS or Duffee or even Carwin in there against Toney because there is a very real threat that Lights Out would murder them in the stand-up game.

How did I end up on this bandwagon and why does everything say property of Chael Sonnen?

by Day Man on Mar 12, 2010 1:49 PM EST up reply actions  

Yea that’s what makes it so interesting. It really puts his best assets out there while not making it a freak show. But, if one of the UFC golden boys is damaged that would hurt them and they obviously aren’t looking to do that

by p123 on Mar 12, 2010 2:40 PM EST up reply actions  

puleez

stick to the game plan Dana, don’t adapt to the Hershel Walker joke.
Brock would cripple this guy for life.

by nostraboris on Mar 12, 2010 1:42 PM EST reply actions  

How does the song go...

…“You can’t always get what you want”

by Hardcase on Mar 12, 2010 1:45 PM EST reply actions  

Toney wants Brock?

Fine. Let them go at it. Toney gets smashed right out of the UFC in about 60 seconds.

certified warlord

by kenpoboy67 on Mar 12, 2010 2:02 PM EST reply actions  

If they gave Toney a stand-and-banger, he might have a chance. It wouldn’t be a straight win for Toney, but he’d have a chance. However, should he get lucky with his first appearance, I don’t see UFC putting him anywhere near a title without a win or two over credible contenders – that is, fighters smart and capable enough to take him down and either gnp him out or sub him.

by Monday Morning Martial Artist on Mar 12, 2010 2:09 PM EST reply actions  

Now that I think about it

Toney/Cro Cop would be the perfect fight. Neither is particularly relevant. It doesn’t really matter who wins, and it won’t go to the ground. Sounds good to me.

by Trysdor on Mar 12, 2010 2:23 PM EST reply actions  

I think CroCop wouldn’t last. I think he doesn’t want to fight anymore. Sure he has that leg kick but it’s not as if a boxer cannot defend that with training. CroCop doesnt even set that up anymore.

by p123 on Mar 12, 2010 2:53 PM EST up reply actions  

Probably true

but the significant part is that Cro Cop losing does no damage to the UFC, and builds Toney up as a legitimate threat. Win/Win.

by Trysdor on Mar 12, 2010 2:54 PM EST up reply actions  

If Toney defeats CroCop, ill cry for 2 weeks.

I am. I think. I will. - Ayn Rand

by vivero on Mar 12, 2010 2:56 PM EST up reply actions  

This is Toney not making any sense. him vs brock, brock would destroy him. when is the last time toney held a signifcant heavyweight title, oh wait their is 8 differnt boxing organizations.

by Lancers25 on Mar 12, 2010 2:30 PM EST reply actions  

Freddie Roach: I think they’re using James as a way to say MMA fighters are better than boxers. If he fights a quality ground guy, once he goes to the ground he’s gonna get killed. But If a guy chooses to stand up with James, James is gonna destroy him. That’s why they call him “Lights Out”. I really don’t think there’s one fighter in MMA that could stand with James.

It doesn’t matter if the UFC is using Toney to prove MMA fighters are better or not. It solves ABSOLUTELY NOTHING. If Toney gets taken down and pounded out, it doesn’t matter. If Toney KO’s someone, it doesn’t matter. You can use a whole litany of reasons and excuses why it doesn’t matter: Toney is too old, too fat, it’s in a cage, it’s using MMA rules as opposed to boxing, MMA fighters would never dare to stand and bang with Toney which is why they take him to the ground, etc.

You have to be the man... you have to be very, like, alpha male with her. You know? Decide what you do and everything. So, show her who's the boss, you know? - GSP

by pud333 on Mar 12, 2010 2:38 PM EST reply actions  

I have always been a fan of styles vs style. The only match up I want o see is how does a former boxing champs standup look comparable to a modern MMA striker’s.
  
JDS to me is the best striker in UFC HW right now. He’s young and fast. I would like to see how someone of his boxing skills does against a former boxing champ. Also maybe Carwin but he would probably take him down.

Non UFC guys would include Arlovski. I would like to see that. Brett Rogers perhaps. I would like to see how Fedor would do against him as well.

Now the guys I’ve listed are primarily boxing stand up guys. That is what I would like to see. Test them and see how they fare comparable to a former champ out of his prime. Most of the situations I have described would end up in the ground but the three straight stand up bouts I think may happen and their likelihood of happening.

1) JDS
2) Arlovski
3) Brett Rogers

by p123 on Mar 12, 2010 2:47 PM EST reply actions  

why not do it in a boxing match instead?

I am. I think. I will. - Ayn Rand

by vivero on Mar 12, 2010 2:49 PM EST up reply actions  

haha are u saying that if u wanted a strict stand up u shouldnt be in mma type of opinion? Hey I don’t make the rules. There are highly succesful stand up fighters with no ground game in the UFC and more so in the heavier weights.

To me MMA is the ultimate proving ground. Certain styles I want to see how they match up.

by p123 on Mar 12, 2010 2:52 PM EST up reply actions  

If we want to see how the moderm MMA fighters fair against boxers standing up, then do it in a boxing match.

I am. I think. I will. - Ayn Rand

by vivero on Mar 12, 2010 2:55 PM EST up reply actions  

I think we still want to see the small gloves and the illusion that the fight can go to the ground. A boxing match would not do anything for MMA.

Maybe a kick boxing match with the small gloves on would be what I’m suggesting.

A kickboxing match with small gloves is what I want to see regarding Toney. Preferable I would like to see him face more of a boxer heavy bunch.

We see alot of guys not go to the ground shit even an entire division mainly employs the stand up fight (LHW) I don’t see what I’m asking for under the umbrella of MMA which is already done and being done is so bad.

by p123 on Mar 12, 2010 3:09 PM EST up reply actions  

2 points

1 – Look at how many posts we have had about Toney. I bet he has generated more front page threads in the last month than any other single fighter or issue.

Yes, this is the medium-hardcore crowd, but we are the people who tell other people what to be excited about. We have influence. So this move has already generate alot of buzz amongst our community. Many of us are fascinated to think of what he might do with his boxing skills and some of us are horrified that this will be a freakshow and I bet that almost all of us will watch and get others to watch. UFC made a good move, so did Toney.

2 – Toney wins if he has even one fight that sells well due to the PPV% clause in his contract.. And as more and more fighters are realizing, drawing power is more important than ability, if money is your highest priority. Therefore, being a heel or saying outlandish things are smart, rational choices.

It doesn’t matter if he gets smoked against Lesnar or Couture or Forrest or Kimbo or anyone. What matters is that the PPV he is on has alot of buys. That is why he won’t be fighting a JDS, Carwin or Velasquez, probably ever, because they are much more skilled than they are drawing powers.

Toney isn’t planning a career in the UFC, he is planning a payday…maybe more than one, but one is enough. Because that one payday is more than he can make in boxing right now. And if he does surprise then he has boxing payday options as well as MMA options.

by Django Z on Mar 12, 2010 2:56 PM EST reply actions  

I say give Toney Brock like he wants.

Brock is the exact fighter Toney would never want to mess with in MMA. A huge beast of a man, with high wrestling pedigree, with a head built out of cement, and a mean streak a mile wide.

Brock needs a tune up fight anyway. Build it up as some type of non-title “charity” fight or something.

In the end, there are a lot of MMA fighters I could see wanting to try and trade with Toney. Brock will just have the mentality of hurting him. So when those thirty seconds are over, Brock ends up even a bigger star and you can go “MMA > Boxing” everywhere.

by Hawk52 on Mar 12, 2010 5:23 PM EST reply actions  

It wouldn’t be very interesting. Lesnar would destroy James Toney. Its ridiculous. In a boxing match, sure, in an MMA fight, never. His only hope would be a lucky punch while Lesnar is coming in. Once on the ground, Toney is in no-mans-land.

by mightyhokie on Mar 12, 2010 5:53 PM EST reply actions  

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