When Should a Fighter Walk Away?
One of the oldest, most heated debates in combat sports centers on the issue of when fighters should retire. Aside from the usual terms of "shot", "washed-up", and "past-his-prime" that fight fans consistently—and often foolishly—toss around, there must exist truly tangible measurements that factor into when the time is right.
Boxing has a long, sad tradition of great fighters competing after their glory days have waned. My father recounts to me watching Ali plodding in, if he could ever be susceptible to it, disgrace against Trevor Berbick. Though I’ve never seen the fight, the notion that this same man who I saw lay out the wrecking machine George Foreman, the great champions Liston and Frazier… the notion that this revered god of American culture could actually be embarrassed on his Olympus staggers me. I’ll never watch the fight, because I don’t want this idea validated by my own eyes.
My favorite fighter ever, Evander Holyfield, dominated at a time when I was too young to appreciate him, in the throughout the 1990s. Watch his fight with James Toney in 2003, however, and one wonders how this man could be regarded as one of the best heavyweight boxers of all time.
To an extent, I understand fighting for lost pride. But legacies can easily be tarnished if one presses forward too far. Fighting for another paycheck is simply foolish, and can be remarkably dangerous. And some fighters, however, just delude themselves that they haven’t reached what Foreman calls their "Number."
For MMA, this is a relatively new problem and it’s the subject of current discussion following Jens Pulver’s loss to Javier Vasquez at WEC 47. Being the youngest major sport in the western hemisphere, some of MMA’s earliest stars are still competitive to this day. But for every Randy Couture and Dan Henderson, there is a Mark Coleman or Kazushi Sakuraba.
As Couture slides past middle age into the era when most athletes have become full-time coaches, he remains a highly competitive member of the UFC’s light-heavyweight division. Through impeccable conditioning and brilliant game planning, he has trumped his slowing-reflexes and weakening chin. Henderson marches into the third decade of MMA on the back of Olympic-caliber wrestling, an atomic-right hand and perhaps the best chin in the business.
But the strengths of these extraordinary fighters disguise the lapses that hinder other members of the so-called "senior-circuit". Coleman is truly a victim of the times, a fighter who has failed to adapt with the evolving climate of a sport he once dominated. And Sakuraba, well, he’s just had the shit beat out of him way too many times.
These are two clear examples of fighters that clearly cannot compete at the rate the top of the sport demands. While they could certainly fare well in small shows against C-level competition, their status in the history of MMA almost forbids them from stepping down so low. The same goes for Pulver, the first great lightweight fighter, but perhaps he isn’t even ready to bow down from the highest level.
There are people who would claim that fighters might pursue their profession as long as they choose, but it’s simply not in the sake of prudence that they would do so. The case for Coleman and Sakuraba to hang it up is clear as day; the former has failed to evolve into a complex fighter in a complex sport, while the latter has been busted up more than a Nazi in "Inglorious Basterds". All the while, they haven’t been running through a top-10 gauntlet like Pulver.
So what should the criteria be for a fighter like "Lil Evil"? He’s only lost to the cream-of-the crop in his division, mainly by submissions. Pulver has never been proficient on the ground, and the evolved jiu-jitsu of modern fighters consistently stacks the odds against him. But he hasn’t been embarrassed, either. As recently as 2008 he went toe-to-toe with top-3 featherweight Urijah Faber for 5 rounds in an instant classic.
Personally, I’m of the opinion that until a fighter’s health is more at-risk than normal during fights at his accustomed level (i.e. that he can’t defend any submissions, he gets knocked out by slight gusts, and he actually looks scared in the ring, etc), he has my thumbs up to keep it going. But that’s just me.
Thus, I leave the answer to you, readers. Is it slowing of the reflexes that should raise the white flag? Couture is a victim of slowing reflexes, and might fight for the LHW title later this year. How about a string of losses? Wanderlei Silva lost five of six before rumblings of a title-run in the UFC’s middleweight division began spreading last month.
No one wants to see Jens Pulver become a miniature Gary Goodridge, but at what point should he stop before getting there?
The FanPosts are solely the subjective opinions of Bloody Elbow readers and do not necessarily reflect the views of Bloody Elbow editors or staff.
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It is a personal decision, let them fight if they want to. Its up to the public if they are going to support it or not.
I am. I think. I will. - Ayn Rand
This
I totally agree, it’s up to the fighter, if they can still get on reasonable big cards with decent paydays even though they are well passed it, then good for them! It’s a personal decision if they wish to tarnish there careers, and between them and their doctor as to the health side.
Personally I think Pulver can still fight, but there is no way he should be doing it in WEC with the elite after 5 losses (4 of which have been devestating, totally miss-matching looking losses (this is where it differs from your Wandy example, he got 2 decisions and KO’d by 2 of the biggest punchers in the game) He needs smaller fights, go to Japan, or even Bellator (although my personal opinion is a lot of Bellator fighters would beat him). But if WEC thinks he still draws, then good on him if he wants to continue and get the biggest pay days that he can.
by TheKeyboardWarrior on Mar 10, 2010 6:57 PM EST up reply actions
If they can legitimately compete, then let them play till they can’t walk. If health is good and abilities are there, no issue…but I also think it depends on the position and the sport. Like a Brett Favre, Jamie Moyer(MLB), Jerry Rice(NFL)…they all still have/had abilities in late 30s/early 40s.
In boxing/fighting, it’s different. Your reflexes are much slower and chances are it would be more harmful than anything. The fight commissions should have a better way of determining if these ‘over the hill’ fighters are fit to be fighting at that age.
We’re so stuck on legends that we don’t want to let them go and let the new breed in. That goes for anything in sports/entertainment I think…
I'm not in this world to live up to your expectations and you're not in this world to live up to mine
~Bruce Lee
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As long as they are being taken care of by good doctors (meaning regular brain scans etc) I think they should be allowed. Jens is slower, but he has not taking the beatings Sakabura has. I would be more inclined to watch Coleman or Jens than Sakabura(or even Chuck at this point) because of the beatings they have taken
Jens should take an extendo break...
…and evolve his game. Everyone’s caught on to his crutch – the left hand bomb. He still has the reflexes and athleticism to diversify. There’s still time for him to not become a Coleman.
I agree with you. It’s been the same Jens for a decade. Time to take a full year off, work hard on technique, particularly his BJJ, and give it one more shot. Maybe somewhere in that year he’ll decide he’s done, or that he feels renewed and motivated to train better and listen to some new coaches.
by Kwisatz Haderach on Mar 10, 2010 7:54 PM EST up reply actions
For your fandom's sake
I hope you didn’t see Holyfield’s fight with Nikolai Valuev.
I like using semi-colons; they make me feel smart.
highway robbery
We're just a million little gods causin' rain storms, turning every good thing to rust.
by Anthony Pace on Mar 10, 2010 9:43 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Dude, did you know that Couture is taking Test & HGH. Rogan said so on one of his fights on early to mid 00’s. This has been brought up alot by other ppl too. Hormone replacement therapy, but the guy is juicing non the less. Otherwise he’d look no different than Coleman. I might add that both Coleman & Randy have nearly identical records.
Also, I saw on ESPN, that guys who get hit in the head a lot get not only brain damage, but damage to the Pituitary gland. A gland that is responsible for a lot of the Test & IGF in the body. They also mentioned that these days Toney’s test level is that of a 60 year old. This is also the case for most other boxers & football players.
You get hit in the head & your body loses testosterone, which is reposible for memory, injury recovery, weightloss, gaining muscle etc.
Just a lil extra info for you here.
On Y2K Alex Jones was on the radio yelling that Russian was nuking the USA.
Now is this an indictment of Alex Jones, or an indictment of Jones' fans.
It seems as though people love being lied to & having their money stolen from them.
Viva L' America
when you become a Coach on Ultimate Fighter you should retire!
Fu**K you Tito!
"I'm Feel Good"
-Wandi
his debates been going on forever in all sports
how many people wanna forget jerry rice on the seahawks, johnny unitas on the chargers, and michael jordan on the wizards
the fact is past their prime greats will continue to keep trying to retain their former glory when sadly they have nothing left in the tank
I envy Dan Servern – he continues to fight and win all around the country. He doesn’t seem to be bothered that he’s not in the “Big Show”, and is content to wrestle down young bucks in regional promotions, gets paid, all while not taking much damage. 91-16-7 ain’t too shabby.
New Orleans Saints - 2010 Super Bowl Champions. Unbelievable. Who Dat.
Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try Again. Fail again. Fail better. -Samuel Beckett
by Scott C. Broussard on Mar 10, 2010 8:19 PM EST reply actions
And the fact he beat Colin Robinson recently is just hilarious.
Not that I condone facism or any ism for that matter. Isms are in my opinion, not good. A person shouldn't believe in an ism, he should believe in himself.
I quote John Lennon, "I don't believe in Beatles, I just believe in me". Good point there, after all he was the walrus. I could be the walrus. Wouldn't change the fact I have to bum rides off of people.
114 fights, and he’s only been KO’d once according to wikipedia.
by MMAInFeRioRiTy on Mar 11, 2010 12:28 PM EST up reply actions
They should retire right before they have that one fight...
where they get blown out, take brain damage, and never recover from. The tough part is trying to have an athlete who is supposed to be prideful and tough, make a wise decision. A good team can help someone make that tough choice IF a fighter will listen.
Personally my favorite athlete was Mark Messier. All around best player ever, could do it all. Yet he hung around way too long and ended up waterskiing and cherry picking on some equally terrible Rangers teams. It was rough to watch yet he was too feared for the young guys to be taking runs at him, which isn’t the case in combat sports.
Someone somewhere is dying to be put over by Gonzaga-ing an established, over the hill fighter.
by ScooterMagruder on Mar 10, 2010 8:40 PM EST reply actions
I don’t think that Jens Pulver should hang them up, but he should be fighting much weaker competition. He can’t hang with most of the WEC Featherweight roster (which is arguably the best collection of MMA Featherweights in the world), but I haven’t noticed him being that “shot,” it is just that everyone else is getting better.
I think the fact that sports really isn’t a typical career gets a lot of athletes. If you go to school to become an accountant then you will most likely be doing that until you are in your mid-sixties but if your a professional athlete then by the time you are in your mid-thirties you are pretty much done with that. Heck even when we talk about Randy Couture being old it’s only in terms of the sport. The dude is just 46, he could live another 40 years. For the vast majority of professional athletes retirement isn’t retirement it’s just time for them to find something new to do for a living and that is very hard for many of them to do. Most of these guys have just never prepared for a life after the sport and it’s all they know how to do. Can you imagine being 35 years old and having to start from scratch with what you want to do with your life? I’m 5 years older than Jens Pulver and I still have 20 year ahead of me before I even start to think about retirement, you don’t retire at 35 you are just starting a new career. There is plenty of life to live and money to be made even after a sports career is over, just look at George Foreman. For as long and storied as his boxing career was he made the vast majority of his money selling fat free grills.
When it comes to the more violent sports like prize fighting or football then playing until you can’t any more or going until they stop paying you money to perform shouldn’t be the deciding factor. Your talking about guys with half their lives left to live. Their health and future better be their utmost priority because they still have a long long way to go in that body. Financial issues are important but there isn’t any amount of money that is going to bring back a guys health for the second part of his life. Staying in a violent sport too long just prolongs the inevitable and makes the rest of life that much physically harder to get through.
Looking at Jens Pulver whether he is ready for it or not all appearances are that his career as a professional prize fighter is at the end. Sure he may have a couple of lower level fights left in him but instead of looking for that last couple of declining paychecks it’s time for him to start looking for that new career path. I think he just opened his own gym and the WEC should use him as a commentator. He is still a young man with a heck of a lot to offer the sport of MMA, it’s not an end it’s just a change.
When people stop paying you money to get beat up.
by DirtyML on Mar 11, 2010 9:41 AM EST reply actions 1 recs

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