Dan Hardy's UFC 111 Vlog - training at Ray Longo, Long Island [at the 1:35 min mark] and Joe DeFranco, New Jersey [at the 3:15 min mark]
almost 2 years ago
Nick Thomas
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Slow of hand, slow of foot ...
… unathletic, and if he sits around in that down closed guard position they were practicing, GSP is going to put an elbow through his head and slam it all the way down to the canvas.
Other than that, he looks ready to go.
Although detractors decry (MMA) as a brutal, bloody form of human cockfighting, aficionados know it is a brutal, bloody, totally fucking awesome form of human cockfighting. -The Onion
by The Kittitas Kid on Mar 10, 2010 9:39 AM EST reply actions
I can watch the video.
Are you suggesting the video robs people of their perceived athleticism? Because GSP looks pretty strong and fast when I watch him on tape.
Although detractors decry (MMA) as a brutal, bloody form of human cockfighting, aficionados know it is a brutal, bloody, totally fucking awesome form of human cockfighting. -The Onion
by The Kittitas Kid on Mar 10, 2010 10:16 AM EST up reply actions
I can watch videos too...
and realize that there’s a lot more going on than what I am seeing. GSP is fast and strong, that’s not the issue. The issue is that you’re making an assumption that what you saw was the only guard work he is doing AND that he is unathletic.
Unless you are in Dan Hardy’s training camps? Are you? Maybe you’re GSP’s undercover training partner he send in to watch Hardy! Can’t wait to hear your next update from Hardy’s camp!
By the way I must commend you on starting a hilarious argument.
That closed guard position they were going over was Alder instructing him… not going full speed. That elbow tilt to break posture is a great technique and actually would shut down elbow strikes from within the guard because it gives you double underhooks. So I really don’t think you know what you’re talking about there.
His pad work looked fine, that leg raise and slow lower was phenomenal and takes a lot of athleticism, his high jumps/explosive work looked good too.
Nobody has claimed Hardy is more athletic than GSP, but don’t say the guy is unathletic unless you’re some sort of Olympian.
The mat is my church, the ground is my heaven, Jiu-Jitsu is my religion. And once you hit the ground you're in my world. My world is like the ocean, I’m like a shark and most people don't even know how to swim - Draculino
by Patrick Tenney on Mar 10, 2010 10:25 AM EST up reply actions
Small edit, meant to say double overhooks, not underhooks for that elbow tilt.
The mat is my church, the ground is my heaven, Jiu-Jitsu is my religion. And once you hit the ground you're in my world. My world is like the ocean, I’m like a shark and most people don't even know how to swim - Draculino
by Patrick Tenney on Mar 10, 2010 10:26 AM EST up reply actions
well i dont know about " shutting elbows down"
We all know how slippery gsp can get.
"When i get in there, in his face ,pressin the action,I'm RUFF NECKIN'EM,I'm throwin him around,I'm punchin him,hes punchin me, I'm eatin his shots and I'm Blastin him back in the face he's not goin to be able to handle it ." - Chris Leben on how his fight with Anderson Silva is gonna go.
by Rayce. on Mar 10, 2010 12:07 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
The only things he should be practicing in the closed guard are getting feet to hips to push GSP away or shrimping to the cage to get back up.
If he tries to get cute hanging around and doing subtle 10th Planet shit like that, he’s going to get killed.
Though no Olympian, I continue to believe he’s unathletic when compared to the overall quality of athletes on the UFC roster.
Though I don’t have a cool jits org in my avatar nor a Draculino quote in my sig, I continue to thing I have some idea what I’m talking about in ground technique.
All will be revealed soon, I suppose.
Although detractors decry (MMA) as a brutal, bloody form of human cockfighting, aficionados know it is a brutal, bloody, totally fucking awesome form of human cockfighting. -The Onion
by The Kittitas Kid on Mar 10, 2010 11:09 AM EST up reply actions
He’s covering all his bases in the ground, Hardy is drilling ways to get back to his feet for sure but if that falls through he has to have a plan to control GSP’s posture or he’ll be eating elbows and fists all night long. That kind of elbow tip to break down posture isn’t subtle nor is it 10th Planet specific, it’s a normal technique, just like getting an over under and bucking down to break posture.
I can make a list of guys who are less athletic than Hardy by the way, on the top of that list is Big Nog…
I’m not going to say you don’t know the ground game, I don’t know you/have not ever rolled with you but you’ve got to realize that you can’t train “only” getting back to the feet against GSP, that’s failed for everyone so far.
I fully expect GSP to wreck Hardy in brutal grinding fashion, but Hardy is doing his homework and putting the effort in, he’s no idiot.
The mat is my church, the ground is my heaven, Jiu-Jitsu is my religion. And once you hit the ground you're in my world. My world is like the ocean, I’m like a shark and most people don't even know how to swim - Draculino
by Patrick Tenney on Mar 10, 2010 11:19 AM EST up reply actions
Your proclivity to descend into ad hominem BS speaks to the strength of your arguments.
Although detractors decry (MMA) as a brutal, bloody form of human cockfighting, aficionados know it is a brutal, bloody, totally fucking awesome form of human cockfighting. -The Onion
by The Kittitas Kid on Mar 10, 2010 11:25 AM EST up reply actions
Are you kidding?
Though I don’t have a cool jits org in my avatar nor a Draculino quote in my sig, I continue to thing I have some idea what I’m talking about in ground technique.
If you want to argue ad hominem then you best ready yourself because I’m a f’n word smith.
As far as the actual case is concerned here I’m pretty sure I’ve explained to you (and politely as far as internet arguments go) why you’re incorrect in:
A) Assuming that a basic grappling technique to break posture is some super secret 10th planet mega technique.
B) Assuming that Hardy should only train standing up and ignore everything else.
C) Assuming that Hardy isn’t athletic, and that he’s not training hard.
D) Assuming Hardy is unathletic when compared to the UFC’s overall roster.
E) Assuming that this video encompasses the entirety of Dan Hardy’s training regimen.
F) Assuming that you know the ground game.
If you’d like to formulate some sort of reply here, maybe take a few minutes and think about it first before posting, maybe do some research, read a book, take a few classes, get a degree?
Ok thnx bye love~
The mat is my church, the ground is my heaven, Jiu-Jitsu is my religion. And once you hit the ground you're in my world. My world is like the ocean, I’m like a shark and most people don't even know how to swim - Draculino
by Patrick Tenney on Mar 10, 2010 11:36 AM EST up reply actions 3 recs
So I really don’t think you know what you’re talking about there.
… don’t say the guy is unathletic unless you’re some sort of Olympian.
Whether or not I “know what I’m talking about” or “am some sort of olympian” has nothing to do with Hardy, his lack of athleticism, or his gameplan for when the fight hits the ground. Speak to the issue.
Nota bene, oh most reputed wordsmith.
Although detractors decry (MMA) as a brutal, bloody form of human cockfighting, aficionados know it is a brutal, bloody, totally fucking awesome form of human cockfighting. -The Onion
by The Kittitas Kid on Mar 10, 2010 11:40 AM EST up reply actions
I am speaking to the issue, and the issue is that you’re wildly off base in your comments and can’t back up what you’re saying so you’re resorting to dragging me into a stupid argument to pull attention away from the fact that I shut down everything you said on the issue already.
Allow me to yet again go over this for you since some people just need a little more explanation than normal on why they’re wrong:
Slow of hand, slow of foot …… unathletic, and if he sits around in that down closed guard position they were practicing, GSP is going to put an elbow through his head and slam it all the way down to the canvas.
The closed guard position they were practicing was actually Alder Hampel showing him a technique used to break the posture of the man in the closed guard down so you have better control and are more safe from strikes; it isn’t a position you just hold by lightly touching the elbows and then sitting there while the guy hits you.
Hardy actually had good pad work and he wasn’t going full speed because he’s a guest at the gym and he’s unfamiliar with the pad holder and probably uses a different set of signals for strikes (i.e. he didn’t want to accidentally hurt the pad holder, and or the pad holder was just going over technique slowly so they could get different combinations down).
Are you suggesting the video robs people of their perceived athleticism? Because GSP looks pretty strong and fast when I watch him on tape.
Are you suggesting without concrete evidence that Hardy is going full speed in this video, that GSP is going full speed in that video and that these videos are indicative of the entirety of their training camps?
If he tries to get cute hanging around and doing subtle 10th Planet shit like that, he’s going to get killed.
That technique isn’t 10th Planet specific, it’s not subtle, it’s very basic and basic posture control is something that white belts are assumed to be familiar with before they advance. Hardy and Alder are gameplanning and going over specific techniques that could work in the fight.
Though no Olympian, I continue to believe he’s unathletic when compared to the overall quality of athletes on the UFC roster.
Big Nog, Roli Delgado, Amir Sadollah, Keith Jardine, Chris Tuscherer, Roy Nelson, I can go on and on.
Though I don’t have a cool jits org in my avatar nor a Draculino quote in my sig, I continue to thing I have some idea what I’m talking about in ground technique.
You accuse me of argument ad hominem and then drop straight to it yourself.
Your proclivity to descend into ad hominem BS speaks to the strength of your arguments.
Again you attack me while trying to play the self righteous high road game.
Whether or not I "know what I’m talking about" or "am some sort of olympian" has nothing to do with Hardy, his lack of athleticism, or his gameplan for when the fight hits the ground. Speak to the issue.
I’m pretty sure the question of you knowing what you’re talking about is pretty important when you’re trying to debate on an issue, it’s weird but I’ve always heard that having an informed/educated opinion is usually better than a completely baseless argument.
Nota bene, oh most reputed wordsmith.
Ravioli linguine.
The mat is my church, the ground is my heaven, Jiu-Jitsu is my religion. And once you hit the ground you're in my world. My world is like the ocean, I’m like a shark and most people don't even know how to swim - Draculino
by Patrick Tenney on Mar 10, 2010 11:52 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
damn man, i wish i could transplant the you got served now. well done.
by Austin Martin on Mar 10, 2010 11:55 AM EST up reply actions
As far as the actual case is concerned here I’m pretty sure I’ve explained to you (and politely as far as internet arguments go) why you’re incorrect …
This is actually true, which is why I shouldn’t get dragged into these things.
Although detractors decry (MMA) as a brutal, bloody form of human cockfighting, aficionados know it is a brutal, bloody, totally fucking awesome form of human cockfighting. -The Onion
by The Kittitas Kid on Mar 10, 2010 12:01 PM EST up reply actions
So did I win? Because I want to go get some lunch. Also I’m going to go get some lunch.
The mat is my church, the ground is my heaven, Jiu-Jitsu is my religion. And once you hit the ground you're in my world. My world is like the ocean, I’m like a shark and most people don't even know how to swim - Draculino
by Patrick Tenney on Mar 10, 2010 12:04 PM EST up reply actions
So the cartoon for you would be “are you coming to bed?” response “I can’t. This is important” then “WHAT??” response “This guy is owning my ass on the internet and i must respond with a witty cartoon”
by Riley_96 on Mar 10, 2010 2:12 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
i believe that you don’t know what you’re talking about.
by Austin Martin on Mar 10, 2010 11:19 AM EST up reply actions
See above.
Although detractors decry (MMA) as a brutal, bloody form of human cockfighting, aficionados know it is a brutal, bloody, totally fucking awesome form of human cockfighting. -The Onion
by The Kittitas Kid on Mar 10, 2010 11:25 AM EST up reply actions
see what? that you’re trying to use bs to substantiate a stupid argument? there is absolutely no grounds for thinking he’s unathletic as he’s a top fighter in one of the most grueling sports in the world, and considering there is no grounds for “athleticism” in general and it’s a composite of various factors. and your allusion that you’re someone i would care about hearing from just makes me think you’re more full of shit until i hear who exactly you are.
by Austin Martin on Mar 10, 2010 11:29 AM EST up reply actions
When you see Hardy workout and GSP workout, one looks like a professional athlete and one looks like a guy with pretty good technique from my local gym.
I’ll let you guess which is which.
Although detractors decry (MMA) as a brutal, bloody form of human cockfighting, aficionados know it is a brutal, bloody, totally fucking awesome form of human cockfighting. -The Onion
by The Kittitas Kid on Mar 10, 2010 10:17 AM EST up reply actions
We could go by the training footage they showed for the last UFC Primetime, otherwise we have to wait until tonight to get a glimpse. Based on everything we’ve seen in the past and heard from other fighters and trainers, I’ll wager GSP hasn’t let up on the intensity of training one bit.
by Hardcharger on Mar 10, 2010 10:06 AM EST up reply actions
Sorry what I meant was that you can’t tell how intense Dan Hardy’s training is from a short video. It could be just as intense as GSP’s for all we know…
We won’t know the full extent of either guy’s training, even from the Primetime series, but I imagine we’ll get a good glimpse into the structure of how each guy trains, and the overall intensity. I don’t think Hardy is slacking in training at all, but it wil be interesting to contrast what we see from each over the 3 Primetime episodes in terms of training style and philosophy.
by Hardcharger on Mar 10, 2010 10:24 AM EST up reply actions
good ol' Joe DeFranco
turned Brian Cushing from a lanky-lankerson into a 245lb linebacker wrecking machine absolute specimen in high school. Hardy’s gonna need whatever strength he can get, no matter how
Goldie: "Michael Jordan-esque in his grappling skills is Travis Lutter."
Rogan: "No, no he's not. No."
cushing definitely had genetics on his side in that one too… he’s going to need some help with his bench/ DL unless his bench was to rep out, 4 reps at 225 is dismal, so i’m guessing that was towards the end of his workout.
by Austin Martin on Mar 10, 2010 11:22 AM EST up reply actions
Didn’t Cushing arrive at USC looking quite a bit less than the hulk he became by his SR year? IIRC, there was a photo contrasting that from 2 different time periods while in LA.
by Hardcharger on Mar 10, 2010 11:24 AM EST up reply actions
well he definitely put on weight during college, but everyone does, i myself put on 60 lbs, 45 lbs of muscle… He also had the pedigree of a champion, so at some point he was going to get that big… he may’ve not needed to in high school
i’m sure being in the same company as two other high profile LBs pushed him to hit the gym hard
by Austin Martin on Mar 10, 2010 11:27 AM EST up reply actions
Oh, I’m not denying that Cushing is a great athlete and worked hard, I just remembered the timeline for him becoming the monster he is currently was a little later (after a year or 2 with the USC S&C program).
by Hardcharger on Mar 10, 2010 11:28 AM EST up reply actions
agreed on that, i wish i had the USC S&C program, and the girls. Fuck going to college in the north. If anyone who hasnt gone to college is reading this, go as far south or west in the US as possible.
by Austin Martin on Mar 10, 2010 11:36 AM EST up reply actions
i don't want to turn this into a Cushing thread
my bad. he was monstrous coming out of HS, only put on like 20 pounds overall in college
Goldie: "Michael Jordan-esque in his grappling skills is Travis Lutter."
Rogan: "No, no he's not. No."
Well at least Hardy has a chance to hold onto GSP this is post greasegate GSP you know. Greased George and non greased George can be different, Maybe not totally but maybe well see Hardy employ some hold em and pray strategy which stands them up?
Ahh, the old grease excuse. I guess that’s all you need to defeat the most elite BJJ black belts in the world. And BTW, just holding on and praying for a standup didn’t work for Alves (but at least he tried to get up on his own). GSP hasn’t been stood up by the refs in his UFC career. He’s too busy smashing guys from top position.
by Hardcharger on Mar 10, 2010 10:57 AM EST up reply actions
its not an excuse he cheated. i am not cool with it.
The rest of the world has given him a pass…..so..whatever.
"When i get in there, in his face ,pressin the action,I'm RUFF NECKIN'EM,I'm throwin him around,I'm punchin him,hes punchin me, I'm eatin his shots and I'm Blastin him back in the face he's not goin to be able to handle it ." - Chris Leben on how his fight with Anderson Silva is gonna go.
by Rayce. on Mar 10, 2010 12:26 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
It is an excuse, GSP didn’t cheat, and the NSAC gave the definitive ruling on it. The fact that people like yourself want to continue to whine about it still and invent your own set of facts is what isn’t cool. It’s tedious and moronic to continue down that path.
by Hardcharger on Mar 10, 2010 12:38 PM EST up reply actions
LOL, now the NSAC is corrupt? Let’s see, we can either go by reality and the actions taken (or not taken) by the NSAC, or we can go by the fantasy world and statements from some dimwitted Penn fan. I’ll choose the former.
by Hardcharger on Mar 10, 2010 12:51 PM EST up reply actions
I don’t care about Penn that much lol. You shouldnt care about GSP that much. Not healthy. Look at that Penn video. I believe him man. Just watch Penn explain the situation its very understandable.
Now I’m not saying that it would have went completely different anyway but it raises questions which are still unanswered..
I don’t think that fat version of BJ beats GSP anyway anyday of the week. It just raises doubt though about character and other fights etc..
Hypocrisy much? You’ve posted 50 times about Penn or a situation from a Penn fight on a Dan Hardy fanshot. Your religious zeal for Penn is duly noted. Now, you can stop posting about this nonsense altogether, and make that appointment with your therapist. There will be plenty of chances to talk BJ Penn after UFC 111 and before UFC 112.
Well you coul argue that he’s been greasing his whole career then couldn’t you?
Alves stood up many times more than I can remember anyone standing up against GSP. Regardless of how good you are if you apply grease to a grappler it will make him better…
Obviously you have never grappled before as you don’t no the effects of vaseline on a grappler who isn’t wearing a shirt. Thought that was common sense ? Guess not…
To be fair to GSP, there’s only slight evidence he was greased in like 3 of his fights (Penn 2, Hughes, and against Mayhem), however I do agree with you that grease in a no-gi grappling environment drastically changes everything, it’s like trying to hold on to water.
The mat is my church, the ground is my heaven, Jiu-Jitsu is my religion. And once you hit the ground you're in my world. My world is like the ocean, I’m like a shark and most people don't even know how to swim - Draculino
by Patrick Tenney on Mar 10, 2010 11:07 AM EST up reply actions
There is no evidence in any of those fights, except Penn 2...
Hughes and Mayhem made off hand comments years after their fights, which is not remotely evidence.
Maybe I phrased “slight evidence” wrong, I mean people have accused him in 3 fights.
The mat is my church, the ground is my heaven, Jiu-Jitsu is my religion. And once you hit the ground you're in my world. My world is like the ocean, I’m like a shark and most people don't even know how to swim - Draculino
by Patrick Tenney on Mar 10, 2010 11:19 AM EST up reply actions
regardless he is on tape for two different fights. I’m not even talking hearsay we have legitimate proof he did it twice what more do you want than that?
You have “proof” that GSP’s corner may have accidentally transferred a miniscule amount of residual vaseline onto GSP’s back in one fight, a mistake the NSAC deemed was inconsequential. BTW, we also have video of NSAC employed cut man Stitch Duran similarly wiping off residual grease onto the body of a fighter. But I’m sure that’s all part of some big conspiracy as well, and not something Stitch did without any malicious intent.
If someone was actually concerned about a fighter getting his body greased, they’d have raised all kinds of hell after Rich Franklin’s corner took vaseline and directly rubbed it all over Rich’s chest and shoulders.
by Hardcharger on Mar 10, 2010 12:04 PM EST up reply actions
Shit if I get caught with a miniscule amount of cocaine I’ll likely get locked up. Why would the rules be different for GSp? Sure he’s not Akiyama= Drug Traffiker but he’s still wrong
i feel like someone is going to whip out the epic billy madison quote soon.
by Austin Martin on Mar 10, 2010 12:17 PM EST up reply actions
That would be a fantastic analogy if cocaine was not only legal, but used regularly in your particular industry. With your repeated lack of basic logical skills as well as awful grammar, you must be a grudge-holding Penn fan looking to stink up any discussion on GSP.
by Hardcharger on Mar 10, 2010 12:23 PM EST up reply actions
Haha… Good point…
Regardless vaseline is a big deal. It can effect the outcome greatly.
You guys must really love GSP huh? It’s clear he has cheated twice on video whether it was miniscule or not.
GSP stills gets all the credit for everything else that he does great.
Bottom Line. He gets an asterix next to his name until he can prove he is the same fighter. Regardless of the fan love and shoving everything under the rug
Enough with the BS. You don’t get to invent an alternate reality with your own set of facts. There’s no asterisk, and no cheating. Ask the NSAC and check the record books. Then go rewatch the fight and see Penn getting his head caved in and fighting back tears in the corner.
by Hardcharger on Mar 10, 2010 12:40 PM EST up reply actions
Stitch is employed by the UFC, not the commission.
by HarmlessNinja on Mar 10, 2010 9:50 PM EST up reply actions
Fantastic logic, and great attempt at trolling this fanshot. So GSP became more slippery after the greasing accusation, allowing Alves to escape more often? Sure, makes perfect sense. GSP must’ve also used magical grease that only gave him an advantage but didn’t enable his opponents to avoid being taken down, nor aid in their scrambling from bottom. Incredible. And nice try at the “obviously you have never grappled” angle. If you think a tiny dab of vaseline that was first rubbed all over a fighter’s face before it could’ve ever been transferred to his back made a difference beyond the normal presense of vaseline smeared all over each guy’s face between rounds, you should ask for a refund from your BJJ school, or just get a clue.
by Hardcharger on Mar 10, 2010 11:07 AM EST up reply actions
People act as if george doesn’t get tapped. He gets tapped daily in JJ, Look I’m no fanboy of JJ. Gi’s are way different than MMA. George’s style is better for MMA then a BJJ wizard in most cases period…
But you have to take things with a grain of salt. He cheated on video and has been seen cheating on other videos. It doesn’t take away from his skills he is obviously one of the best in the game…
But a little edge is all you need to get you to next level.
These next couple of fights should be very interesting for George. He does have a chance to clear his name and prove that he didn’t need the vaseline.
BJ to me is too small to fight off of his back against George. You need someone of Dustin Hazlett or Anderson Silva’s length to really give him some trouble.
170 is filled with wrestlers. Not too many JJ aces in there.
George please don’t go to 185. It’s not only AS standup you have to worry about. The people who defend you now will be talking grease and how u werent that good if you get stomped by the Spider… Which is likely
What incredible insight here! GSP gets tapped in training? What a revelation. And GSP’s style is better for MMA? Incredibly convenient, since he’s the UFC champ and not competing in BJJ tourneys. You can try to make all the baseless accusations you want and claim GSP still has to prove anything, but it doesn’t make any of it remotely true. Someday another WW will get to GSP’s level, but right now, he’s far ahead of the pack, because he’s an amazing athlete, and because he trains smarter and harder, and with better training partners and coaches than anyone else.
by Hardcharger on Mar 10, 2010 11:14 AM EST up reply actions
Yea people on here make GSP out to be a god. He is an incredible athlete but he is human. I think a long legged slick submission style guy would give him problems on the ground def… but he would probably have the stand up to just beat him there which is what is so dangerous about him..
He def does he trains smarter harder better coaches all that good stuff. I agree with you. Georges skill is second to only his dedication which is ridicolous by the way.. Hey you get some bad stuff on ur name it takes awhile to clear the air.. GSP gets the same treatment anyone else would
Hey, at least you figured out the reply function, finally. Making GSP out to be god, because I’ve stated he’s the best WW in the world? That’s called reality. Someday there will be another guy as good or better than GSP, but right now he’s the best at WW, for the reasons mentioned earlier. That doesn’t mean some hypothetical figther with hypothetical attributes couldn’t be better than GSP in one aspect of MMA. But in reality, GSP has faced every style of fighter that was supposed to give him major trouble in one area or another (or multiple areas at onece), and he’s smashed them.
by Hardcharger on Mar 10, 2010 11:23 AM EST up reply actions
if penn couldn’t use his guard to nullify gsp’s top game, noone can. maybe stefan struve.
by Austin Martin on Mar 10, 2010 11:24 AM EST up reply actions
could be the vaseline involved in that also… anderson silva’s bottom game or dustin hazelett would likely be tougher for GSP. I mean he was fighting a 167 lber. JJ guys love to say that size doesn’t matter but it does. Long Legs + Top notch JJ = Good chance of success
you just pulled two names of guys who have long legs and a good jj game out of your ass. bj is known to have one of the best guards of all time, and wrote an extended book about it.
by Austin Martin on Mar 10, 2010 11:32 AM EST up reply actions
I don’t think that guard was desgined for a guy as big and huge up top as GSP. But thats just my opinion.
Why is it that BJ didn’t become become “just a lightweight” or “too small” until after the second GSP fight? Before the fight, predictions were 50/50 either way. But because GSP won in dominant fashion, BJ was too small? That’s an insult to GSP AND BJ.
especially because BJ would probably be a favorite or equal against about anybody else in ww
by Austin Martin on Mar 10, 2010 11:57 AM EST up reply actions
doesnt mean that he is not at a disadvantage . Just means he just that damn good.. I still think BJ is a better lb for lb fighte than GSP is. He just doesn’t have the proper size to beat GSP
That’s my point. You’re one of those cats that simply won’t let themselves admit that St. Pierre is a better fighter than Penn. It was the size difference. No, it was the grease. Admitting GSP is better is not a knock on Penn. BJ Penn is one of the best ever, period. But how the hell can he be a better pound-for-pound fighter (which is a stupid, endless debate by the way) than GSP when he lost to him twice? The second fight left no question, regardless of what rapid fans and haters say. Big Nog got smoked by Cain. Is he no longer one of the best ever? Penn runs the lightweight division with relative ease. Why does no one bring up his size advantage over all of them? Because it doesn’t matter as much as the SKILL advantage. Penn is just a better fighter than all of them, just like GSP is a better fighter than he is, until proven other wise.
agreed. if size was everything alves would’ve won, instead it was just an avenue for a few reversals
by Austin Martin on Mar 10, 2010 12:17 PM EST up reply actions
ugh because george shouldnt be considered a lb for lb anyway. Whens the last time he fought 185 again?
I think skill for skill Bj is the best by far.
185 vs 167 isnt a fair fight of skill man. I’m talking skil wise obviously Bj got destroyed.. I just think BJ is the best ever though skill wise and how he brings it together…
Penn is not capable of putting on proper WW weight as he doesnt have a body capable of putting on muscle like GSP and such…
GSP vs Penn 2 does not mean GSP is a better fighter. He was better fighter that day with his advantages as well.
I’m just saying if u take away those advatnages I think BJ wins. All speculative bullshit but just an opinion
Okay, then. If you truly believe this, why didn’t you shoot BJ a call before the fight and let him know. If the second fight doesn’t mean GSP is a better fighter, what does it mean? BJ just had a bad day after talking truckloads of smack for months? Come on, man. He wrecks shop on an entire weight class, embarrasses the most dominant welterweight in history in their first fight, and goes toe-to-toe with Machida when they fought, but can’t overcome the weight difference between him and GSP for one fight? Like I said, while going out of your way to defend Penn, you’re actually downplaying his skills.
Simply there was no one skilled enough to show it….
Weight matters thats why they have weight classes.
Having a LW fight a WW is never fair whether you like it or not..
so tell that to a natural ww who got mauled by a natural lightweight. or a natural middleweight moving up and embarassing a former lhw champion. you’re wrong. size only matters when the skills are on a level playing field, a la gsp vs. bj.
by Austin Martin on Mar 10, 2010 12:09 PM EST up reply actions
lol
I like the cut of your jib sir. I agree with the last part for sure!
"When i get in there, in his face ,pressin the action,I'm RUFF NECKIN'EM,I'm throwin him around,I'm punchin him,hes punchin me, I'm eatin his shots and I'm Blastin him back in the face he's not goin to be able to handle it ." - Chris Leben on how his fight with Anderson Silva is gonna go.
by Rayce. on Mar 10, 2010 12:31 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
ahh good point about alves. as he never really attempted to hold him down and focused more on escaping. It seems u have entertained this subject quite often have you?
Sure there is some on ur face. Being applied to key areas though makes it go from a maybe to a definite.
There’s nothing we can do about the face… When applied to key areas upper back neck etc it can make a world a difference.
Does vaseline on the face end up there anyway? Maybe probably probably not… Theres nothing we can do about that .
However applying vaseling to key areas for grappling we can. When a person is caught redhanded cheating you are allowed to use a skeptical eye in situations involving that person. That’s just how it goes.
hardy’s music is kickass and it makes me happy he was a former hardcore singer, repping for punk music
by Austin Martin on Mar 10, 2010 11:23 AM EST up reply actions
I for one really hope Hardy can pull the upset here..
besides being a great fighter he’s also hilarious and has real charisma.
We need a champ at 170 with some real charisma not that fake manaufactured towing the company line BS that GSP spewes everytime he has a camera on him..
or we need a champion who represents dedication, work ethic, perseverance, and helps paint our sport in a positive light. yup.
by Austin Martin on Mar 10, 2010 12:06 PM EST up reply actions
Heck, besides what you said, I also just want a champion who can actually hold onto their Belt after one Title defense. Strong champions just add credibility to the belt and their respective division.
by chrisbboy82 on Mar 10, 2010 12:11 PM EST up reply actions
I’d call GSP’s demeanor indicative of how a true champion acts, rather than criticizing it because he doesn’t talk trash and make a fool of himself. But then again, I also appreciate Fedor’s demeanor and attitude. If only he and GSP had the sense of humor and trash talking abilities of Hardy, maybe they could be REAL champions!
by Hardcharger on Mar 10, 2010 12:07 PM EST up reply actions
This is still the entertainment business my man. Regardless of how you would like your champions to act, they aren’t getting PPV $ for their fighting skills only.
right, but considering gsp is one of the most popular fighters ever, i’d say he’s doing something right.
by Austin Martin on Mar 10, 2010 12:14 PM EST up reply actions
That’s true. But trash talking does not a great champion make. And GSP, with his “fake manufactured towing the company line BS” happens to be one of the most popular fighters in MMA, with top sponsors supporting him, and he also is a huge PPV draw. I’d say he’s taking care of the business aspect and the entertainment aspect as well.
by Hardcharger on Mar 10, 2010 12:15 PM EST up reply actions
Don’t get me wrong, I love GSP the fighter, but just wish he wouldn’t be so politcally correct all the time and unleash some verbal jousting every now and then..
Why? Fedor never does it. Tito continues to run his mouth. When was the last time he was relevant? Rampage talks smack. He’s frankly lost his mind. You need the humbleness to balance out the brashness.
Agreed. There are many different personality types in MMA. There will always be the bold, brash, trash-talkers and self-promoters. IMO, we need guys like GSP and Fedor to balance things out. And personally, I prefer champs who carry themselves like Fedor and GSP.
by Hardcharger on Mar 10, 2010 12:36 PM EST up reply actions
That would be sick! If Hardy one it might just be bigger upset than Serra as this is the new improved untouchable GSP with his mind right. Also Gsp adding that muscle might be interesting to see. Don’t forget the grease amadeus… Theres always dirt!
i’m not forgetting the grease, i just honestly don’t think it mattered all that much, or it was gsp intentionally cheating.
by Austin Martin on Mar 10, 2010 12:10 PM EST up reply actions
Don’t worry, that was just his way of trolling this discussion further, and continuing to throw out baseless accusations whilst simultaneously claiming to be a big GSP fan.
by Hardcharger on Mar 10, 2010 12:13 PM EST up reply actions
haha i’m aware, and i’m actually going with the trolling because i’m sick and laying in bed and sore throats suck, so i’m gonna take it out on some BE trolls. they’ve been coming full force recently.
by Austin Martin on Mar 10, 2010 12:15 PM EST up reply actions
I think we’ve been infiltrated with some of those very people, based on the comments here.
by Hardcharger on Mar 10, 2010 12:24 PM EST up reply actions
I don’t know man. I just don’t see GSP being as skilled as an in shape Prodigy.
If we could somehow take the BJ who fought Florian and Diego and make him a 170 version of himself that would be the only way I could see a real fair fight.
I’m not saying they even have to be the same weight. Shit the wrestler is always going to have the advantage over JJ guy with weight and size. That’s a given.
GSP being 185 and 193 now I would be fine with a 175 lb Penn that was equal to the 165 lb version of himself.
We know BJ in incapable of putting on that weight probably.. Which is a flaw and a knock on him definitley.
I don’t see 185 version of GSP beating the crap out of 175 ( Same shape as LW ) BJ . Take away the grease too.
That would be impossible too. So I really on mere speculation..
This 193 lb GSP might be too much though. 193 GSP vs 175 Bj is a fair fight to me. BJ is actually a WW making him fair game. It would be his own damn fault for not being bigger or cutting etc..
That’s all Im really trying to say.
Time to give it a rest Jr
No one cares. Record says different and thats what people care about,not your thoughts, more so sence you like to pariade them around as fact when they are simply well … not.
Lol I know you guys are crazy I have about 10 pro Gsp comments for one comment I made… I only reply to what you guys say.. I’ve already moved on to Hardy yet no one jumps on those topics…
Hardy is Rocky !
I like Hardy because he’s interesting and a great speaker as well as great at entertaining and hyping fights. I just don’t see how he has much of a chance against GSP but then I also thought that against Serra and that didn’t turn out that well for GSP.
In some ways Hardy winning makes the welterweight division a lot more interesting, but then I just don’t see it happening.
wow the topic comes back to the actual real topic and all of the gsp fans leave and debate elsewhere…. Hmmmm
well, that’s because noone wants to reply to you. This will be the last time i ever do.
by Austin Martin on Mar 10, 2010 1:31 PM EST up reply actions
But what happens if I reply to your reply to him? It’s kinda like you’re replying to him…. twice?
I’m tired :(
The mat is my church, the ground is my heaven, Jiu-Jitsu is my religion. And once you hit the ground you're in my world. My world is like the ocean, I’m like a shark and most people don't even know how to swim - Draculino
by Patrick Tenney on Mar 10, 2010 1:40 PM EST up reply actions
There was a lot of head hurting logic in these comments. Credit to the people that took time to shoot them down.
Not that I condone facism or any ism for that matter. Isms are in my opinion, not good. A person shouldn't believe in an ism, he should believe in himself.
I quote John Lennon, "I don't believe in Beatles, I just believe in me". Good point there, after all he was the walrus. I could be the walrus. Wouldn't change the fact I have to bum rides off of people.
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