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The Case for a Draw Ruling in Guillard vs. Torres

 

The Case for a Draw Ruling in Guillard vs. Torres

Monday, 08 February 2010 17:17 | Written by Dallas Winston

Judges shall evaluate mixed martial arts techniques, such as effective striking, effective grappling, control of the fighting area, effective aggressiveness and defense.

Evaluations shall be made in the order in which the techniques appear, giving the most weight in scoring to effective striking, effective grappling, control of the fighting area and effective aggressiveness and defense.

Effective striking is judged by determining the number of legal strikes landed by a contestant and the significance of such legal strikes.

Effective grappling is judged by considering the amount of successful executions of a legal takedown and reversals. Examples of factors to consider are take downs from standing position to mount position, passing the guard to mount position, and bottom position fighters using an active, threatening guard.

The passage above is from the unified rules in regards to scoring effective striking and grappling, which are the two most important credentials when determining who won a fight.  When prioritizing whether striking or grappling comes first, the location of the fight must be taken into account; meaning that if the majority of the time was spent on the feet exchanging, then effective striking becomes the top criterion, and vice-versa when more time is spent on the ground.

After watching the fight for the first time, I had the score as one round apiece for each fighter going into the third.  With no clear-cut winner in the final frame, each competitor being able to impose his will and mount offense in their respective areas of competency while sufficiently defending their opponent's offense, and roughly equal time spent striking and grappling--I felt strongly that a draw was not only a viable option, but the correct one.

I've re-watched the fight with the intention of detailing how each fighter performed in each category and to pay closer attention to the actual time spent standing and striking versus dueling on the canvas to extract which criterion should be favored the highest.  Below is the round-by-round breakdown and my interpretation of how the unified rules should be applied.

Star-divide

Round 1

Melvin attempts a flying knee that's nowhere close, throws a punch and a left high kick that are fully blocked.  Torres nails a takedown at 4:45, and quickly advances to side control for offensive grappling points.  Melvin gets back to his feet at 3:55, giving Torres 50 seconds of ground time.  Melvin lands a jab, Torres counters with a 1-2, and then gets ahold of Melvin and takes him down again at the 3:30 mark in half-guard.  Melvin gives his back, and Torres tries to secure hooks but Melvin reverses and ends up on top.  Melvin scores here with effective defense for the reverse.  Torres angles for an armbar, and Melvin slides out and is back on his feet at 3:01; registering more momentum for Torres "using an active, threatening guard" while Melvin evens out the octagon control of Torres' takedowns by bringing the fight back to standing, with another 30 seconds of grappling time for a total of 1:20.

Melvin lands a hard leg kick, and whiffs with a high kick.  Torres charges and connects with a straight right, and then throws a flying knee that is blocked and only partially lands.  Melvin tries a spinning back fist that Torres evades, and then Torres counters a Guillard-combination with another stiff 1-2 that lands, marking effective defense on the feet (just as Melvin showed on the ground) and equalizing the aggression factor.  Torres shoots, and Melvin unleashes a quick flying knee that connects soundly to the head/shoulder area, but Torres is unfazed and keeps driving for the takedown, eventually getting it at 1:50 after pressing Melvin against the fence.  Torres stays busy with distracting strikes from the top, then postures up and lands some legit GnP.  Melvin works back to his feet with 25 seconds left, giving Torres an additional 1:25 on the ground, which totals 2:45 so far on the mat.  Torres lands a good combination after Melvin escapes.  Melvin attacks with a right straight/left hook, the latter landing, but Torres pops him a left hook of his own, and the round ends.

Summary:  It's interesting that the time grappling versus striking is almost perfectly even, but slightly more time was spent on the canvas.  With Torres snaring three takedowns, getting in some decent GnP, passing guard, and landing a decent number of solid shots on the feet--I score the first round as I did originally with a 10-9 for Torres.

Round 2

Torres throws a straight front kick, then Melvin attacks with a telegraphed flying knee that Torres reads well and answers with a strong left hook that connects, and then chases the retreating Guillard and throws a left hook/right straight combo that lands but is blocked.  Torres shoots, and Melvin defends well, and the odd scenario where Torres lifts Melvin's high on the cage ensues, and Melvin actually illegally hooks his arm over the top of the cage to prevent the slam from Torres.  Because of the cage-assistance, Melvin lands on his feet and quickly sprawls to avoid the takedown.  Melvin's high-kick is blocked again, and Torres circles out to avoid another charging combination from Melvin.  Melvin then explodes with a 1-2 and connects with the "2".  Front kick by Melvin, then Torres sneaks a jab through, then cleanly lands a sharp left hook, forcing Melvin to reset.  Torres shoots, and Melvin responds with a hard knee on his way in, but Torres shakes it off and pursues the takedown, eventually lifting Melvin for a throw that Melvin is able to counter and escape from.

Melvin has avoided the ground thus far, evaded a few takedown attempts, and landed the better strikes on the feet; putting him in the driver's seat for the round thus far.  Melvin lands a good kick to the body, then follows up with a few punches that partially land.  Melvin then pulls out the sweet left low kick to immediate right straight that snaps Torres' head back.  Melving tries the same combo, but Torres is prepared and ties him up, but Melvin counters with a knee and the fighters exchange against the fence before moving into open area.  Torres is still staying in the pocket and twice lands his left hook counter as Melvin initiates exchanges.  Melvin throws a leg kick that Torres anticipates, pushes Melvin against the fence and takes his back standing, and Melvin executes a nice forward roll but ends up in half-guard with Torres on top for the first grappling of the round.  Torres grabs a legit kimura and rolls to wrench on it, and Melvin stays patient and powers out to find himself on top in Torres' high guard.  Melvin throws some half-hearted GnP that is easily blocked, but then throws a flying right hand over the butt-scooting Torres that lands as the bell sounds.

Summary:  Although far from a 10-8, this is just a solid, commanding round for Guillard who is able to land harder, better, and a higher number of strikes while neutralizing most of Torres' offense and takedowns.  Torres still got him down and attempted a submission while staying active and aggressive on the feet and landing punches.  This is a bulletproof 10-9 for Guillard making the 3rd and final round the fulcrum for the entire fight.

Round 3

Both fighters exchange a few uneventful blows, then Melvin connects on a stout overhand right.  Torres ducks under a Guillard left hook and shoots, but Melvin displays a textbook sprawl and pushes him away.  30 seconds in, Guillard is slightly ahead for landing a few shots and avoiding the takedown (striking and defense).  Torres stays aggressive with a 3-punch combo, and then once again plants a left hook counter as Melvin throws.  Quick jabs from Melvin, then a low kick, then Torres responds with a left hook, and Melvin answers with a fast right hand.  Torres flails a right that partially gets through, and interestingly enough, even though Melvin is landing more, it's Torres that is now pressing forward and landing strikes with Melvin now playing the role of the counterstriker (aggression for Torres and some credit for octagon control, while Melvin is in control of striking and effective defense). 

Torres snags a leg and trips Guillard's other to get his first takedown into half-guard at 3:12, and he immediately transitions to full side-control to start accumulating points, offense, and time spent grappling.  Torres stays busy with distracting GnP, and secures Melvin when he tries to scramble free.  Decent GnP and short elbows from the top from Torres, then Guillard traps Torres' right arm with his legs, and occupies his attention enough to slip out and stand up at 1:52 for a total grappling time of 1:20.  Body kick from Guillard is blocked, but a jab lands.  Torres responds with a very nice left hook/straight right, both of which connect solidly.  Melvin with a stiff right, and good defense as Torres ducks under for the takedown, Melvin scrambles free but Torres is relentless and pins Melvin on the fence and executes his second successful takedown with 1:15 remaining.  It's worth noting that at this point, Torres is the aggressor and should be rewarded for octagon control for both his advancement on the feet and bringing the fight to the ground, while Melvin gets the points for striking and effective defense by negating Torres' earlier takedown attempt.

Torres traps Melvin's right leg with both of his legs and prevents the wall-walk, and he spends more time securing Melvin than mounting offense in the final minute of the fight.  Melvin stands up with about 8 seconds left, and Torres hoists him up and slams him down, but Guillard quickly scrambles and ends up in the mount and lands 3-4 punches as Torres is reversing him, and the bell sounds.  This adds another 1:07 to the grappling time, making the total 2:27 on the mat.

Summary:  Total grappling time turns out to be approximately 2:27, which is a mere 3 seconds away from being the exact median of a 5 minute round.  Since it's just not realistic for the judges to keep exact time like this, an extra 3 seconds standing should not launch striking into the almighty top category, and I'm assuming this is a classic example where the fight was evenly divided in both striking and grappling.  This means the top two priorities either negate each other, or should be given equal emphasis; i.e. "a draw".

Prime Criteria

Effective striking:  Guillard

Effective grappling:  Torres

Priority based on the time and location of the fight:  equal (2:27 grappling, 2:33 striking/standing).  Both fighters also showed no signs of visible damage from either fighter's offense, and were able to equally defend and mount offense of their own.

Secondary Criteria

Octagon Control:  even.  Guillard countered the takedown with effective striking once, and Torres took Melvin down once and mounted offense, and then again briefly with the slam, but ended up eating some punches. 

Definition:  "Fighting area control is judged by determining who is dictating the pace, location and position of the bout. Examples of factors to consider are countering a grappler’s attempt at takedown by remaining standing and legally striking (Guillard once); taking down an opponent to force a ground fight (Torres once and arguably twice); creating threatening submission attempts, passing the guard to achieve mount, and creating striking opportunities."

Aggression:  Torres surprisingly gets this category for the 3rd round by a small margin.  Even though Melvin was landing more effectively on the feet (effective striking), Torres was the one moving forward and pressing the action.

Definition: "Effective aggressiveness means moving forward and landing a legal strike or takedown." 

Effective defense: because Melvin became the counterpuncher on the feet, he wins the point for effective defense, but these last two categories are the lowest priorities on the totem pole.

Definition:  "Effective defense means avoiding being struck, taken down or reversed while countering with offensive attacks."

The Overall Verdict

Draw!  The two most important credentials for determining who wins the fight are split evenly, almost to the exact second.  The next most important criteria is also dead even, with octagon control being shared equally.  The last and least vital categories are divided with Torres winning aggression and Melvin winning effective defense.

Unless your interpretation of the unified rules is that the fight should or could be swayed entirely in one fighter's direction because he won the 4th category while his opponent won the 5th, while the three most critical sections were dead-even; or that the final 8 seconds of the fight were more important than the it's entirety--then this fight is a textbook draw. 

Let's see what the unified rules outline for the scoring of a 10-10 round versus a 10-9 round:

"1. A round is to be scored as a 10-10 Round when both contestants appear to be fighting evenly and neither contestant shows dominance in a round;

2. A round is to be scored as a 10-9 Round when a contestant wins by a close margin, landing the greater number of effective legal strikes, grappling and other maneuvers."

10-10:  Did either fighter show dominance in the third round?  No.  Were the contestants "fighting evenly"?  I don't know how the answer could conceivably be anything but "absolutely".  Guillard got the better of the exchanges on the feet for almost exactly one-half of the fight; Torres took Guillard down and kept him there while mounting offense for almost exactly the other half of the fight.

10-9:  Did either contestant "win by a close margin"?  Not according to the unified rules.  Melvin clearly wins the striking, and Torres clearly wins the grappling, and neither category is weighed more heavily than the other because there were equal amounts of time spent in each of the top categories.  The only shred of evidence that are unequal are the additional 3 seconds that the fight took place on the feet (out of a total of 300 seconds in a 5-minute round, making the difference exactly 1%).

MMA is an emphatically dynamic sport, a statement that is strengthened by the realistic difficulties of extracting a winner when the rules are plainly laid-out and defined, even with the convenient ability to rewind and re-watch individual segments; because of this truth, it can make fans tear their hair out with frustration over their perception of poor decisions, but it can also offer an opportunity for fights to be placed under a microscope and scored by anyone who can interpret the unified rules logically. 

This is my interpretation.  I would love for anyone to comment on this analysis, refute my observations with those of their own while adhering to the results of the fight, and govern their opinions with the guidelines of the unified scoring criteria. 

 

Original article:  http://thegarv.com/The-Case-for-a-Draw-Ruling-in-Guillard-vs.-Torres.html

The FanPosts are solely the subjective opinions of Bloody Elbow readers and do not necessarily reflect the views of Bloody Elbow editors or staff.

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My first fanpost!

I would love some comments on this one please…

by LeonardWashington on Feb 9, 2010 11:42 AM EST reply actions   0 recs

Well…dominance shouldn’t be the factor in scoring a round.

Torres got a few takedowns in the third but did NOTHING with them. Meanwhile Guillard scored with multiple strikes in the round. It was a clear Melvin round.

Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
MMA Editor - SBNation.com

by Brent Brookhouse on Feb 9, 2010 11:52 AM EST reply actions   0 recs

Hi Brent-thanks for your thoughts.

To get the nod for effective grappling, the following must be considered: “the amount of successful executions of a legal takedown and reversals. Examples of factors to consider are take downs from standing position to mount position, passing the guard to mount position, and bottom position fighters using an active, threatening guard.”

Torres got 2 takedowns, and passed to side control once while landing GnP in the 3rd. Also, in the final round, Torres also landed a handful of clean punches, and actually assumed the role of the aggressor by moving forward more and initiating exchanges with strikes.

Why is it if Melvin simply lands more punches, that what he did in striking should be valued more than what Torres did in grappling (per the unified rules)?

Also, the rules state that wherever the fight took place the most dictates whether or striking or grappling should be favored higher… and it was split down the middle to almost the exact second.

So, with Torres clearly winning the grappling, and Melvin clearly winning the striking, why should Melvin/striking hold a significantly higher emphasis?

by LeonardWashington on Feb 9, 2010 12:01 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

When Torres took Guillard down he didnt mount much of an offensive attack or attempt many subs. Effective grappling includes striking and subs along with controlling your opponent.

by bigc4277 on Feb 9, 2010 12:10 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

But the credentials for offense as described under effective grappling are:

Takedowns, passing guard, and threatening with subs. Torres took Melvin down repeatedly (3x in the 1st, 2x in the 3rd), passed his guard (got side control in the 1st and 3rd), threatened with an armbar in the 1st, and got the kimura in the 2nd, and landed some GnP in the 3rd.

According to the unified rules, this should clearly award Torres the grappling nod in the 3rd, correct? And if time was split between grappling and striking, the rules state that each should be favored equally, correct?

This means that in the 3rd, the two most important credentials are equal, and Torres still won grappling, and Melvin striking.

I appreciate the discussion!

by LeonardWashington on Feb 9, 2010 12:17 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Under the current guidelines...

That doesn’t matter. That’s the problem.

Follow me on Twitter @lelandroling
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein

by Leland Roling on Feb 9, 2010 12:41 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Hi Leland!

Thanks for responding, although I’m not crystal-clear on your point….

what exactly “doesn’t matter”?

by LeonardWashington on Feb 9, 2010 1:11 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

He is agreeing with you

In saying it doesn’t matter that Guillard landed better strikes because of the rules (Essentially what you argued Right above to Bigc4277)

'He built his whole reputation as a waffle house chef. They’ve been serving him up ham and eggs with a side of canned tomatoes' - Don Frye on Fedor Emelianenko

by Well Read Idiot on Feb 11, 2010 4:07 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Thanks for the clarification

I wasn’t sure if he was agreeing with me or not.

by LeonardWashington on Feb 11, 2010 12:03 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I do belive that Draws and 10-8 rounds should be utilized more, I really thought Torres didnt mount much offense against Melvin.

by bigc4277 on Feb 9, 2010 12:08 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

I am a firm believer in the Half-Point system.

think that this fight would have been a draw under tthat syatem.

"And shepherds we shall be, for thee my Lord for thee, Power hath descended forth from thy hand, that our feet may swiftly carry out thy command, we shall flow a river forth to thee, and teeming with souls shall it ever be. In nomine patris, et filii...et spiritus sancti."

by KingAtRock on Feb 9, 2010 1:10 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

I’m not entirely opposed that idea either.

Have you read Nelson “Doc” Hamilton’s essay on the current unified rules, and how he would prefer to institute a half-point system?

Link to the “Doc” doc here: http://www.mmarefs.com/blog/pdf/onejudgescritique.pdf

by LeonardWashington on Feb 9, 2010 1:13 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Ya that’s what put me on to the Half-Point system.

Amazing essay

"And shepherds we shall be, for thee my Lord for thee, Power hath descended forth from thy hand, that our feet may swiftly carry out thy command, we shall flow a river forth to thee, and teeming with souls shall it ever be. In nomine patris, et filii...et spiritus sancti."

by KingAtRock on Feb 9, 2010 1:21 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

just cant except the fact that guillard won that match

by staytrue2010 on Feb 9, 2010 2:10 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

Except he did, it was close but Torres messed up going for that last slam and got reversed and pounded on that imo basically cost him the fight.

by Raker on Feb 9, 2010 2:17 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

I didn’t think this was a controversial decision, seemed to me Guillard clearly won the fight…

by Reaser16 on Feb 9, 2010 2:38 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

Just to explain...

I’ve been on a crusade about scoring and judging in MMA. I also did the piece that Bloody Elbow picked up with Nick Lembo on the controversy in Shogun/Lyoto and Couture/Vera. (http://thegarv.com/Rapidfire-QA-with-New-Jersey-s-Nick-Lembo-on-Judging-in-MMA.html)

I think the rules and judging needs improvement, so what I’ve done is try to become intimately familiar with the rules and score each fight by fanatically adhering to the descriptions in the unified rules, and I’ve found that it’s shocking how many fans argue a decision or score a fight without using the rules as the guideline, like the judges do. I don’t think there is any foundation for the argument that the rules or their interpretations are inadequate until they are actually used and referenced when scoring a fight by the fans.

That being said, let me present a challenge. Tell me what is incorrect about the following assessment:

1. The fight was even going into the 3rd (Torres won the 1st, Guillard won the 2nd)
2. In the 3rd, according to the definition in the rules, Melvin won the striking category, and Torres won the grappling.
3. Since equal time was spent striking and grappling, the rules state that these categories must be weighed equally.

Therefore, I’m looking for a logical argument (that isn’t just “Melvin did better striking than Torres did grappling”) explaining why, according to the unified criteria, why that last round shouldn’t be a draw?

by LeonardWashington on Feb 10, 2010 8:48 AM EST reply actions   0 recs

because a stopwatch shouldn’t be the only thing determining whether striking and grappling are equal. Also, you are ignoring three of the 5 aspects that go into determining how a round should be judged.

by Phildo on Feb 10, 2010 4:02 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

 “because a stopwatch shouldn’t be the only thing determining whether striking and grappling are equal”

Not according to the rules. Wherever the most time is spent is what is given the highest priority… in the 3rd round, it was divided equally to almost the exact second.

That said, I find I’m not exactly sure what your point is. Remember, I’m simply applying what the unified rules state, not saying “my fighter didn’t win” or crying robbery.

“Also, you are ignoring three of the 5 aspects that go into determining how a round should be judged.”

In the article, all 5 areas are addressed fully for the 3rd round, which is the only round in question, as striking and grappling take significant priority over everything else.

And if anything, Torres won aggression and octagon control in the 3rd, so if we judged the entire fight based on the lowest priorities of a fight, Torres should have won outright.

I think if people re-watch the 3rd round, they might be surprised how often Torres did in fact land on the feet, and how he was the clear aggressor.

So the question remains why the two most important factors would not be split evenly because of the equal time ratios?

by LeonardWashington on Feb 10, 2010 5:32 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Before I start , the judges don’t, and shouldn’t have a stopwatch when making their decisions on who won the round. They need to make a decision quickly, so things will not be perfect according to the time that has been set up. Secondly, if they did use your stopwatch, the fight was standing more than it was grounded, so the striking should be worth more, but that small amount of time is insignificant to the big picture, so I’m not going to harp on it.

One key word you left out from your explanation was the word more, this is from the sherdog forums, but they say it’s from ratner via breen, and everything else that comes up during a search reads exactly the same.

If a round was 50% standing and 50% on the ground, then:
-clean striking and effective grappling are weighed more equally.
-octagon control would be factored next

More equally does not mean equally. If the fight is 50/50 and the striking was more effective than the grappling, the striking should be worth more, and that’s allowed in the rules because it says more equally, not equally.

Effective grappling and effective striking are not binary values, you don’t just say, “he won striking, he won grappling, how long was the fight on the ground.”

This is an extreme hypothetical but bear with me. Fighter A out strikes fighter b on the feet for the first 60 seconds of a round. Then Fighter B gets a takedown. The fighters stay on the ground for the remainder of the round, in the guard position, with Fighter A on the bottom, but landing significantly more strikes, and no one really attempting any submissions. Should fighter B win this round? The fight was on the ground for 4 minutes, he won the grappling because the only grappling that took place was a takedown? The answer to that question is no.

The factors of grappling and striking can be applied evenly when the fight is 50/50 standing and on the ground, but not in the way that you are doing it. It is entirely possible for one aspect to be more effective even if there is less time spent in that particular area of the fight.

by Phildo on Feb 10, 2010 6:36 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

“Before I start , the judges don’t, and shouldn’t have a stopwatch when making their decisions on who won the round. They need to make a decision quickly, so things will not be perfect according to the time that has been set up.”

Sure, I understand and agree. I was always curious as to the implementation of this rule, and it seemed to me after watching it once that the areas were pretty evenly split throughout the entire fight (which they were).

To summarize and move past this, do we assume that the judges, in the heat of battle, will only weigh this casually? Meaning, if they don’t use any sort of technology to actually time which phase the fight is taking place, that the end result when it’s “close” is that they’ll just award the fight to whoever they think is being more effective? And if so, wouldn’t this be a little problem that could develop into a larger one in the future should it continue to be followed loosely like this?

The passage you quoted from the rules is not included in the most recent copy I attained from Keith Kizer and Nick Lembo (available for review and download here: http://thegarv.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/11/NewOrleansABCProfessionalAmateurMMARulesReport.pdf).

But even if we say the passage you quoted IS the case, then I still stand behind my conviction that the striking was absolutely not dominated by Melvin in the 3rd. I strongly implore everyone who believes it was a simple case of Melvin being the more effective striker in the 3rd to re-watch that round. There is no clear evidence that Melvin was vastly more successful striking in the 3rd than Torres was with grappling.

Moving on, let’s say we followed the next suggestion and weighed octagon control. This is also undoubtedly Torres in the 3rd: two takedowns, one passing of the guard, and he was dictating the pace and location of the fight significantly more in the 3rd. Then we would move on to the next criteria, which is aggression—again, clearly won by Torres in the 3rd. He was moving forward, initiating striking exchanges, and stalking Melvin.

To summarize this portion, I don’t see any valid argument why Melvin was more effective striking than Torres was grappling in the 3rd, and in fact, there is more of an argument for Torres being MUCH more effective striking than Melvin was grappling.

[Effective grappling and effective striking are not binary values, you don’t just say, "he won striking, he won grappling, how long was the fight on the ground."]

Actually, according to my interviews and conversations with Lembo and Kizer, that is exactly how it is done. To summarize, I would say some clarification is needed on the rules for this particular instance, and also whether the judges are just supposed to “take a wild guess from their memory” where the fight took place more (not advisable, IMO), or how, and how exact the assessment of where/how long the fight took place is to be performed.

by LeonardWashington on Feb 11, 2010 11:59 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Or, if we just say “Torres didn’t do much with the takedowns”, or “the exciting fighter won”, etc….

then the judges will continue to have the same luxury of deviating from the rules and basing their decision on a huge amount of personal opinion and subjectivity, because no one is pointing out specifically where,when, and how they haven’t followed the guidelines in the unified rules.

by LeonardWashington on Feb 10, 2010 8:51 AM EST reply actions   0 recs

Sorry, one more thought

Compare Couture/Vera to Guillard/Torres, where Randy won the decision for desperately clinging to Vera like an old man shaped fannypack with a receding hairline. Randy won that decision.

Torres was fearless in striking with Melvin, and was actually the aggressor and pushing the action on the feet in the 3rd, and landed a pile of nice left-hook counters while standing in the pocket and trading.

Why would Randy win, when I believe he only got one takedown, when Torres had 5 total takedowns, sub attempts, passed guard, etc.?

by LeonardWashington on Feb 10, 2010 8:55 AM EST reply actions   0 recs

So I should assume that my argument is so overwhelmingly correct that none dare to disprove it?

;)

by LeonardWashington on Feb 10, 2010 1:27 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

I agree with it.

Well articulated.

Anyway, judges will continue to make mistakes. Unfortunately this sport will never be an exact science with judging. Subjectivity is implicit in the word judging anyway.

That is what rematches were made for =-)

'He built his whole reputation as a waffle house chef. They’ve been serving him up ham and eggs with a side of canned tomatoes' - Don Frye on Fedor Emelianenko

by Well Read Idiot on Feb 11, 2010 4:48 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Thanks a lot, man

I’ve been on a big crusade to analyze the scoring criteria and judging, and two things I feel strongly on are:

1. We need to see more draws
2. We need to see more 10/10 rounds (or more 10-8’s, or use the half-point system)

And I don’t think the MMA community adheres to the unified rules like they should when assessing a fight, because they a) don’t think they work, b) don’t understand them, or c) don’t apply them as they’re intended.

I don’t claim to be able to do all that perfectly, but the more discussions like this that take place, the more the inherent “gray areas” and incompetent/incomplete areas will be fleshed out… which is more effective in making the right changes than everyone using their own personal scoring system, IMO.

by LeonardWashington on Feb 11, 2010 12:08 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

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