Age Is a Factor: Against a Man His Own Age, Randy Couture Was Unstoppable
by Michael Rome on Feb 8, 2010 12:00 PM EST
in MMA News
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Last night’s fight between Randy Couture and Mark Coleman was a sober reminder of the difference between a man who fights like he should at his age and a man who fights like he’s 10-15 years younger.
For the first time since he fought Mike Van Arsdale, Randy Couture fought someone very close to his age. His fights against Tito Ortiz and Tim Sylvia were against men 13 years his junior. His recent fights with Brock Lesnar, Gabriel Gonzaga, and Brandon Vera were no different; Randy’s been fighting far younger men in their physical prime for years. It took a fight against a man just one year younger than him to illustrate what a special athlete Randy Couture really is.
Take nothing away from Mark Coleman. He was who he’s always been. He threw one big strike at a time, and kept looking for an opening to shoot, but never found it. His eyes kept darting down; he was thinking about shooting, but Randy’s jab and footwork kept Coleman out of position.
A fight against someone his own age was probably a one-time reprieve for Couture, who will likely end up fighting someone roughly 15 years younger than him in his next fight. It’s easy to mock the UFC hype about Randy being ageless, but his ability to perform at his age really is something to marvel at.
As the UFC emerges from an unlucky period marred by an almost ludicrous number of injuries, it’s worth noting that Randy Couture is largely responsible for helping them pull through without incurring serious harm. Couture’s willingness to step up and fight three times in seven months saved at least two shows, provided a fight of the year candidate, and lead to two dream matches over a decade in the making. Not bad for an old man.
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nice piece
randy is the reason i started watching the sport, and i’m an absolutely sucker for the old man triumphs over adversity storyline.
i’m curious who people see him getting matched up with next. personally, i’d kinda like to see him fight rashad, but waiting til after he fights rampage would be too long to keep couture on the shelf.
He should fight Lil Nog next… The forrrest vs Lil Nog bout should be scrapped and this should be the replacement.
Forrest should fight the winner of bones vs Vera.
Time is running out for Randy so he needs to fight yesterday. The fight with Lil Nog will set up a title shot if he wins and that should be his last run at the title. Time is too short for Randy to be playing around with Tito or Chuck at this stage.
For as much as Randy has achieved with his age he has lost his ability to take punishment… and it’s only gonna get worse from here – so he has one more relevant fight left in him and if he wins that you can make that 2… then he can go play with the rich franklin in Chuck and Tito’s sandbox.
I'm so with you on this
other than the Rogerio fight likely being sad to watch. If he could beat him though, he deserves a title shot. Every other matchup you listed sounds great. Forrest vs. Vera sounds way too fun.
"Someone is WRONG on the internet. What do you want me to do? LEAVE? Then they'll keep being wrong!"
-Randall Munroe
by pdl on Feb 8, 2010 1:15 PM EST up reply actions
For as much as Randy has achieved with his age he has lost his ability to take punishment
that’s exactly why i wouldn’t think they’d put him in with a guy like rogerio. too much power. though i suppose you could say the same about someone like rashad.
definitely agree that he shouldn’t be wasting time on fights with chuck and tito after saturday night.
At this point I think anyone at 205 could knock Randy out… if he can get to the clinch with lil Nog (which I think he can) he has a great shot at winning.
Bones is just all wrong for Randy and he already fought Vera so that’s not gonna do it… beating rich franklin doesnt call for a title shot either.
Randy needs to fight Lil nog… no ifs, ands or butts about it. He either beats lil nog and gets his last title shot or he gets knocked out… this is his optimal path.
FATHER TIME
is randy coutures bitch
have u ever even been in a fight??
by MMAJUNKIE__83 on Feb 8, 2010 12:27 PM EST via mobile reply actions
Randy “supernatural” Couture!
Man, I feel bad for Coleman, I thought he could still give a fight and maybe he still can, but he was looking like a grandpa saturday night. Time to call it quits for sure (at least in the UFC), I just hope DW does not block him from fighting somewhere else if he still wants to. From what I understand he has no money…
Pain is Temporary
Pride is Forever
by Orcus on Feb 8, 2010 12:28 PM EST reply actions 2 recs
Aside from fighting Tito I’m not sure what the UFC can do with Coleman now? Maybe give him Kimbo? I’d hate to see him fighting Ken Shamrock on Wargods because he needs the money but what else is there for him in the UFC? He’s one of those guys they need to find a permanent job with the company for.
by who me on Feb 8, 2010 1:48 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
He’s one of those guys they need to find a permanent job with the company for.
I agree 100%. I just feels like we owe Coleman alot.
I am. I think. I will. - Ayn Rand
he really shouldn’t fight in the UFC anymore, but I wouldn’t be against him going back to Japan though.
Pain is Temporary
Pride is Forever
Isn’t it strange that he is going from the main event, which at some point was billed as a #1 contenders match, to ostensibly being cut?
yeah, but that fight was just a wake up call though, not just what he brought to it (or lacked), but the image of him fighting. He really looks old, too old to be in the cage. Old man muscle/fats/skin, man titties (no disrespect Mark!).
He could still beat someone relevant and it wouldn’t change my mind, he no longer belongs in the UFC. Sad, but true.
Pain is Temporary
Pride is Forever
I was thinking something similar, has there ever been a time where someone has gone from main event to being cut in the UFC?
"For some reason Dana White doesn't like me, and I don't care enough to find out why. So he can go pound sand up his ass as far as I'm concerned."
Don Frye
by keyboardwarrior on Feb 8, 2010 2:40 PM EST up reply actions
The UFC gyms may provide an opportunity to get these guys jobs. Maybe a gym in Ohio with his name attached to it? Not that he has a huge name there, but who does?
i really like tthat nickname
I'm like PacMan fightin you silly kids... throw ya Hatton the ring, and get knocked outlike Ricky did.
lol.
i think DW has something in mind for Coleman
as long as your loyal, he has proven that he will take care of you as a fighter and a person
Fan of Tiger 'Makin It Rain' Woods
by B-A-N-A-N-A-S on Feb 8, 2010 2:50 PM EST up reply actions
Every time I watch him fight I’m more amazes. After watching his fights I always find myself training harder in the gym. I just wish my 38 year old body would keep up with my head. Some how Randy has found the answer
by KING FEDOR on Feb 8, 2010 12:35 PM EST via mobile reply actions
Couture's performance is WAY OVERRATED
He was fighting a punching bag, Coleman looked awful and fought worse. I really didn’t see any improvement on Couture (or didnt had the chance to do so). It was a bad main event and I found it really hard to watch the fight as it went on. Rogan and/or Goldie was overhyping Couture for some reason and obviously was trying to avoid discussing Coleman’s nothingness. You could actually hear hints of Couture getting a title shot after Shogun/Rua w/c is more likely to happen.
Couture is definitely great specially at his age. We all know this. But I really didnt see anything special last night, I guess watching a 46 young old male beat up and 45 old old fighter can be awesome.
That fight should not had been the main event. Thank God for Sonnen and Paulo Thiago making it a decent event
I am. I think. I will. - Ayn Rand
by vivero on Feb 8, 2010 12:37 PM EST reply actions 2 recs
I agree with you on all points, but Randy still fairs well with the likes of Vera and Big Nog, which is what I think this article is talking about. I don’t think he’ll ever be champ though, but he’s still competitive IMO, and given his age, that’s a big accomplishment.
Pain is Temporary
Pride is Forever
Yep, I agree the Randy can still be competitive with the young guns. I guess I just needed a place to bitch.
I am. I think. I will. - Ayn Rand
I can understand that it was Rogan’s job to make the fight as interesting as possible and the only way to do it was to glorify Couture. But, imo, it the main event was a big mess from the day it was announced. It Bonnar’s fault anyways, should have retired Coleman.
I am. I think. I will. - Ayn Rand
Eh...
He did just over nothing to Vera, his offense was about nil. He won that based on the rules, but it was not an impressive showing. Most of his time against Nog was spent getting knocked down or defending subs. Lesnar caught him on his bad striking habits. Couture is surviving well and is a touch fight for most guys because of his style, but what happens when he goes up against a good wrestler, someone strong in the clinch, or somebody with the footwork to stay out of range? Shogun, Lyoto, Rampage, Rashad, Anderson, Lil Nog… very bad nights for Randy. Forrest, Rich Franklin, and Luiz Cane are the best fights he can get.
"Someone is WRONG on the internet. What do you want me to do? LEAVE? Then they'll keep being wrong!"
-Randall Munroe
dude, he was winning the fight against Lesnar and got caught, watch that fight again please. As for Big Nog, he was competitive, I’m not saying he was better than Nog. Big Nog is going to be champ of HW soon enough too, no shame in losing to the best. Vera won that fight IMO, but like I said, he was competitive. I’m not saying he’s the best, not even top 5 as DW puts it, but he is competitive, you can’t deny that, and it’s all I’m saying.
Pain is Temporary
Pride is Forever
no way he was beating lesnar
the first round was very competetive but clearly a 10-9 for lesnar randys best chance of winning was to gas lesnar in the 1st 2 rounds then win on points from there which he was on pace to try to attempt until he got caught
him against machida would be an interesting fight though, at this point i think randys too slow to successfully beat machida but if he can clinch him up and work his dirty boxing he could make things interesting
In brazil, you're in the southern hemisphere
so everything is upside down, right?
http://mixedmartialartsblogger.wordpress.com/
by Cory Braiterman on Feb 8, 2010 1:27 PM EST up reply actions
Lesnar beat him by being a good fighter.
It wasn’t just getting caught, Randy loves to feint too far right and load up an uppercut. Lesnar saw it and blasted him with one of those hamhocks down the pipe.
The Vera fight was bad. He couldn’t get a takedown, he couldn’t throw strikes because he was concerned about losing position and control, and any time they were off the cage he was getting punished.
As for Big Nog… I agree. And if he doesn’t become champ, JDS to the rescue!
I think the breaking point is that there are fights I’d consider sad to watch. Randy fighting Rampage would not be a pleasant thing to watch. There are plenty of showcase fights I’d like to see him in, but going after the top of the LHW division is not something I’m interested in.
"Someone is WRONG on the internet. What do you want me to do? LEAVE? Then they'll keep being wrong!"
-Randall Munroe
by pdl on Feb 8, 2010 1:12 PM EST up reply actions
As far as the Vera fight goes, I think Randy took the right lesson from it. His greatest success in the fight was in the first half of the third round, where he did a lot of damage up close in the clinch. He made the mistake in that fight of working for takedowns first—he’s always best off using the clinch to damage guys early, and then getting the takedown later. I still think on the inside at 205, there are very few guys that are going to be able to shove him off against the fence. They’ll just need to catch him on the way in.
even if you don’t agree that he was winning against Lesnar (IMO he was), you can’t tell me he wasn’t being competitive. He was outwrestling Lesnar. The only thing I am saying here is that he can still be competitive at his age, not that he’ll become champ again.
Pain is Temporary
Pride is Forever
If Randy Survived one more round, Lesnar was done. If you look at lesnars breathing patterns his gas tank was finished at that point. Randy would have stopped him in round 4 or 5.
He was imposing his will on Lesnar. He moved him around the cage
by KING FEDOR on Feb 8, 2010 2:25 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
I guess everybody has an opinion but I don’t think Lesnar’s game plan was to get pinned against the fence in the clinch. While Lesnar took him down I didn’t see them as being very effective
by KING FEDOR on Feb 8, 2010 3:28 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
I thought the whole card was pretty good, and the main didn’t bother me. While I can’t kid myself the Randy is top-5, it really isn’t any worse for him to end up in a title fight than when they throw someone like Frankie Edgar or Dan Hardy against BJ Penn or GSP, respectively. The only issue I have is there are actually a lot of legit contenders at 205, and he shouldn’t get a title shot until after the Shogun/Machida winner faces the Rampage/Evans winner
We're just a million little gods causin' rain storms, turning every good thing to rust.
I guess the main card bothered me because I used to love Coleman (alot), and it was beyond painful to watch what transpired.
I am. I think. I will. - Ayn Rand
I’m with you on Franklin vs. Couture. I think that’s the perfect fight for both of them. If Franklin wins, he has some status at 205 and I still think he and Randy are right outside Rashad/Rampage/Minotoro in the division. Randy is just amazing to me, and he could beat anyone at 205, but I don’t like his chances against the top five. Same with Rich. I think Randy/Rich would be a really competitive fun fight between two guys who are still great, but won’t ever win another title. I’d say it’s even money for both of them against Cane, Forrest or Thiago Silva at this point.
by Kwisatz Haderach on Feb 8, 2010 6:52 PM EST up reply actions
Great read as usual...
although I have a feeling Randy won’t be fighting someone 15 years younger next. I have a feeling he faces the Tito vs Chuck winner, and if he wins that, he gets a title shot.
Don’t think so. He’d have to wait until October or so to fight one of them, he will fight well before that.
Oh yeah,
I didn’t think that. haha. So who do you give a guy like Randy?
Jardine and Franklin are the only two guys that make sense for him, in my opinion.
by Anton Tabuena on Feb 8, 2010 1:16 PM EST up reply actions
I think Forrest would be a real fun fight but I don’t see them fighting each other. I don’t see the upside in Jardine—he took Vera on short notice to bail out the UFC.
He could fight the Forrest/Nog winner. He could fight Franklin.
One fight that kind of appeals to me is if the UFC resigns him, a rematch with Josh Barnett.
A rematch with Barnett???
You are blowin my mind, dude
We're just a million little gods causin' rain storms, turning every good thing to rust.
by Anthony Pace on Feb 8, 2010 1:33 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
If Randy takes this fight it is a clear sign to athletic commissions that he should never fight again due to dementia.
by Jonathan Snowden on Feb 8, 2010 2:16 PM EST up reply actions
other possibilities
You know, if Cro Cop can somehow win a fight I would still like to see Couture/Cro Cop, at whatever weight class. I’d love to see Couture fight Frank Mir, especially if Mir loses to Carwin. That would be a fascinating fight.
Besides Rich Franklin, the two other good fights for Couture at LHW, to me, are Forrest Griffin and Rashad Evans. Both of them have potentially exploitable stand-up—Randy might be able to force those fights to the cage, where he’d have a real chance.
I really don’t want to see Couture fight Little Nog—Big Nog already beat him in the stand-up, and Little Nog might very well kill him. Machida or Shogun? Couture said Vera’s body kick “moved my heart” and I don’t know if I want to see what Machida or Shogun could do to him.
Actually, if Wanderlei ever moved back up to LHW that would be another fun match-up. So there are a lot of possibilities for him still.
by Lauren J Darkbloom on Feb 8, 2010 3:46 PM EST up reply actions
Rashad would remove Randys
head from his shoulders. And I hate Rashad. Forrest is a safer fight. Randy will dry hump him to victory just like the Vera fight.
Rashad obviously has the power to drop just about anyone if he gets to tee off, but I think Randy would manhandle him on the inside. I’d pick Randy in that fight. It’s not like Randy’s chin is done or something. Big Nog dropped him a couple times, and Randy recovered really well. Rashad’s power got a bit overrated against Chuck. That was a perfect punch with all his torque behind it, a perfect storm, not an indication that Rashad is a power puncher on the level of Rampage.
by Kwisatz Haderach on Feb 8, 2010 7:01 PM EST up reply actions
Valid points but
I think Rashads speed becomes his biggest advantage. Rashad can wrestle, so I think he keeps it standing long enough to hurt Randy. Just my theory, I have not been impressed with Randy in years. He took a beating from Nog, beat and over rated Vera (sorry Anton) and Coleman.
I think Rashad is just too fresh and dangerous for Randy which is why we will never see the fight. I can see him fighting Forrest (another man who got blasted by Rashad), it would be better for Randy and his career.
You may be right, and I do think they’ll try to find the easiest possible, credible fight for Randy, and I won’t begrudge it in this case, cause Randy has been a warrior for the company, fighting tough guys every couple of months, and making younger fighters look like delicate flowers with their training injuries and care in taking fights. I actually like Rashad, and he should be too fast for Randy, but while I was more impressed with Randy than you are lately, I think that Rashad is the x-factor here. He didn’t look that great against Thiago, who I thought he’d maul. He looked tentative and nervous to me. If he can avoid the big shot from Rampage and outwork and out-transition him, then I’ll probably come around to your point of view again.
Hard to say what happens with the title picture, because if Shogun wins, I’d figure the UFC to want either Anderson to fight him, or to work a rematch of Shogun vs. Rampage or Lil Nog. Forrest is going down in my opinion, but Minotoro will probably have to win another fight after that to get a shot, and obviously that depends on Shogun being champ. Randy may have to wait a while and take another fight in the meantime for all this to get sorted out, preferably against Franklin. It’s going to be a wild spring!
by Kwisatz Haderach on Feb 8, 2010 8:28 PM EST up reply actions
I thought after Machida
KOd him, he might have lost that killer instinct. I don’t want to take away from what Randy has done, but I don’t see him top 5ish like some here do. I would find Ramapge/Randy interesting, and yes this spring is going to be awesome.
It all came together for me last night
Before I make picks for a card, I watch each fighters last 3 fights. So watching Randy fight at 109, something clicked and I totally understood how he seems unstoppable in imposing his game plan on other fighters. I think it was only obvious because Coleman really allowed it to be.
Randy uses his fairly effective boxing, liberal use of feignts, and lateral but always pressing forward movement to stymie and confuse his opponent into the cage. He does this every time. He may not be the strongest puncher, but he knows how to get people to react to his boxing so they back up and guide themselves into the cage. Once there, he does what he wall know him for, and for me, it all comes down to how damnably effective that short, inside uppercut is when he throws it after grinding his head into his opponents head. If someone can maintain their base and have a better inside uppercut, I think they can beat Randy’s cage method. If they don’t play into his cat-and-mouse boxing, use liberal lateral movement and possibly push kicks, they can possibly avoid the cage altogether.
Disclaimer
At the time, I was under the effect of certain chemicals that may have induced more confidence in my ability to perceive underlying patterns than was warranted. =)
I still can’t believe people are saying Vera won the fight against Couture, do people just forget that getting pressed up against the fence and punched repeatedly isn’t a good defense. Vera did almost nothing in that fight but land a couple of kicks, Randy who was exhausted from his weight cut basically impossed his will on a much younger fighter and beat him. Couture isn’t one of my favorite fighters but the idea that he can’t still compete and beat guys at the top of their game is silly he’s been doing it too long for anyone to count him out.
you say imposed his will
I say failed to complete takedowns, barely did any damage in the clinch aside from a brief stretch in (I believe) the third, and got by far the worst of it in the standup.
http://mixedmartialartsblogger.wordpress.com/
by Cory Braiterman on Feb 8, 2010 3:23 PM EST up reply actions
it was just a ugly fight
neither fighter really deserved to win but vera deserved it less than randy did
if vera won we woulda been complaining on how randy got robbed and asking how u can win a fight when ure being pushed against the cage for 15 mins
probably because in between getting pushed against the fence, he kicked him so hard he darn near fell apart.
http://mixedmartialartsblogger.wordpress.com/
by Cory Braiterman on Feb 8, 2010 4:28 PM EST up reply actions
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