Next Day Thoughts: UFC 109
by Brent Brookhouse on Feb 7, 2010 11:16 AM EST
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I always try to avoid doing my "post-fight thoughts" pieces when an event ends, choosing instead to sleep on the events to try and get things in order. With that being said, let's get to it.
- I'm in complete agreement with Mike Fagan on Joe Rogan's performance being less than stellar. Rogan is my favorite announcer in the business to listen to on an event by event basis but starting at the weigh-ins Joe seemed off his game. That being said, his performance during The Great Ice Spill of 2010 was top notch.
- Phil Davis dominated Brian Stann but the performance still left a lot to be desired. Davis' punches are very wide and sloppy. Also, at this level you should be able to finish a fighter when you achieve mount or back control for somewhere around 9 minutes. Davis is very green and his upside is huge, I'm just going to need to see improvements before I'm willing to call him the future of the sport. The talk of him vs. Jon Jones being fun at this point was absurd, it'd be a murder.
- Rolles Gracie vs. Joey Beltran was bad. Anything more than that is a waste of words.
- I've not yet been able to watch the fight but from the live reports it sounds like Tim Hague got jobbed something awful. Sherdog scored rounds 1 and 3 for Hague with the third being a 10-8 round. Still, Chris Tuchscherer was awarded a majority decision with two 29-28 cards and a 28-28 draw.
- The "Next Anderson Silva" is not very good, so enjoy the current one.
- Melvin Guillard fought a very smart fight that showed a good amount of growth. On the occasions where he was put on his back he remained composed and found his openings to get back to his feet where he was able to control the striking game. I'd have liked to see him blend in his striking combinations a little more but he was well aware of the size and wrestling of Torres. Melvin remains the one guy at 155 that I think could hang in a boxing match with BJ Penn, but in every other aspect of the game he'd be so severely outclassed as to make it unfair.
- There isn't much to say about Serra/Trigg except that Serra hits hard and Frank Trigg just looks done as a fighter at this point in time.
- Demian Maia's striking looked improved but let's not get ahead of ourselves with where it is at. Obviously, if you told me they were going to stand for the majority of the fight I'd feel good about Miller's chances, but Maia was able to work counter punches well and Miller was hesitant to throw because of the takedown openings it can leave. Still, Maia is not going to win too many fights with his stand-up. Continued groth is a good thing though and it was a very nice bounce-back performance.
- Chael Sonnen's wrestling is very, very good. Nate Marquardt is a talented fighter and absolutely at the top end of the division but he looked helpless for 14 minutes of that fight. Clearly you'd have to favor Anderson Silva in a big way should Sonnen ever get his crack at the champ, but I think Sonnen could give him trouble for a round or two. Five rounds is just too much time though and when one guy finishes as well as Silva and one guy doesn't really finish anyone...
- It was clear ten seconds in to the fight that Mark Coleman was going to lose. He was looking to fight standing up rather than try to use his strength and double leg to grind out a round or two on the scorecards. Standing, Randy is much more dynamic and in the clinch Coleman just looked lost. Coleman deserves his respect as a pioneer and a legend but the gameplan was trash and he looked every second of his age.
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“- The “Next Anderson Silva” is not very good, so enjoy the current one."
LOL, everyone seems to have forgotten about that now but you’re right. Of all the shit Dana says this one is going down as one of the dumbest.
by ufc4 on Feb 7, 2010 11:21 AM EST via mobile reply actions
What was Rogan on?
At the very end of the Chael Sonnen’s v. Nate Marquardt, Rogan was apparently taking under the delusion that Marquardt could in some way get the decision. He actually said that because of the Marquardt’s reversal of position in the last minute or round 3, the judges could “forget” about the rest of the fight and give Marquardt the decision!!
That’s Rogan. He relentlessly jock ride some fighters.
He did the same with Mike Swick. WTF!
2 people on sherdog gave nate the third round. A complete idiot of a judge (not out of the question) could see Chael covered in blood after round 2 and give Nate that round. I thought it was at least 30-27 sonnen, but you never know with these judges.
I wonder if they would have given the third round to Nate if they didn’t have Rogan freaking out about everything he did.
Giving Shogun his props. I had the fight 48-47 Machida but Shogun put up a monumental performance and I am honored to have seen it in person.
I think the entire thing was Rogan pointing out the complete inconsistency and occasional incompetence of the judges more than him being convinced himself that that was all Nate needed to win the round. He even said that the decision could go to Nate just based on “crazier decisions have happened” to me that points out the ridiculousness of Nate possibly winning that fight or even getting that round just based on loopy judging.
It really seems like nowadays you have to base the critieria on what what wins a round on the potentially crazy way the judges will see the fight more so than that of the actual rules and guidelines themselves.
"You never know, I don't know, you know?" - Nick Diaz
He was covering his bases and we wall know it was a possibility the way judging is. He just said it was possible for Marquardt to win, plain and simple. I’d rather that than talk how Sonnen dominated and have to eat his words when the judges for some reason give it to Marquardt.
"I fight because I can’t sing, I can’t dance, and it beats working all day. Now ask me a question that doesn’t sound so fucking stupid." – Phil Baroni
I was rooting for Coleman eventhough I knew he didnt really have a chance. Paulo Thiago is a fucking beast, I wonder how many fights he is from a title shot. Chael is smart, he basically talked his way to a titleshot. Before his “controversial” statements I didnt give a shit about him, now I will gladly pay money to see Anderson beat the homophobic out of him.
"He will lie between resentment and regret. He shed his grace. As certain as a snake sheds its skin. Laid waste to a wealth of talent--his curse being blessed with treasures that just were not gold enough"
by ProfessorBLove on Feb 7, 2010 11:33 AM EST via mobile reply actions
Did he really talk his way into a title shot though? If he didn’t say anything but beat Okami and Marquardt back to back wouldn’t he get a title shot? I tend to think yes.
The man known simply as "Christmas Cheesesteak"
I dont think so. I think if he had shut up he’d be fighting Bisping (if he beats Wandy) for a title shot.
But who knows wtf is going on in Dana and Joe Silvas heads
"He will lie between resentment and regret. He shed his grace. As certain as a snake sheds its skin. Laid waste to a wealth of talent--his curse being blessed with treasures that just were not gold enough"
by ProfessorBLove on Feb 7, 2010 3:08 PM EST up reply actions
This is a business as much as it is a sport. Before Chael started grinching all over everyone he would have been in the exact same boat as Okami and frozen out of the title picture.
Giving Shogun his props. I had the fight 48-47 Machida but Shogun put up a monumental performance and I am honored to have seen it in person.
My thoughts:
- Phil Davis seems like LHW Cain Velasquez. I’m interested in his development.
- Demian will not need superior striking to outstrike most opponents for the same reason GSP was doing so well against Alves on the feet. Fear of a takedown is a powerful tool.
- It’s very possible Mark Coleman’s knees are giving out on him. That’s my most reasonable explanation for him not shooting even once.
- No thoughts on Swick or Paulo Thiago?
"Someone is WRONG on the internet. What do you want me to do? LEAVE? Then they'll keep being wrong!"
-Randall Munroe
Cain isn't a big HW.
Rothwell was way bigger, and Kongo was around the same size.
"Someone is WRONG on the internet. What do you want me to do? LEAVE? Then they'll keep being wrong!"
-Randall Munroe
by pdl on Feb 7, 2010 2:10 PM EST up reply actions
That’s what I meant. Davis doesn’t have a size disadvantage.
The man known simply as "Christmas Cheesesteak"
Oh, wait
duh. I meant to say he’s a pretty solid build LHW and is actively looking for subs while he has guys down. He may not be quite there yet, but I predict some kimura and keylock finishes in his future. And if we get a real treat, knees to the body TKO.
The last post was just a typo. The keys are like… right next to each other.
"Someone is WRONG on the internet. What do you want me to do? LEAVE? Then they'll keep being wrong!"
-Randall Munroe
by pdl on Feb 7, 2010 2:25 PM EST up reply actions
1. Where does Matt Sera go from here?
2. Dana White says that Coleman is probably finished in the UFC, that is a shame considering I still want to see him fight other legends like Ortiz and Lidell.
3. So now that Nate lost, who is the #1 contender for Silva’s throne?
"If your going to come on then come on!" - Harold Howard
I believe Dana said before the fight Nate/Chael was a #1 contenders match.
by ufc4 on Feb 7, 2010 11:40 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
as it should, because he’s now dominated three fighters who were supposed to be better at everything. he broke nate last night. yushin had nothing to offer. i truly think that his style can match up well with silva, and he’s in his athletic prime.
by Austin Martin on Feb 7, 2010 11:47 AM EST up reply actions
I think there’s a real good chance Chael never sees Silva on his back.
Tatum: I think he's a good man. I like him. I got nothing against him, but I'm definitely gonna make orphans of his children.
I think he can put Silva on his back.
I don’t think that’s much better for Chael than staying on the feet. Silva is submission savy, very lanky, and will use elbows off his back. Unless Chael suddenly gets much better BJJ awareness, I see it being a short night for him.
"Someone is WRONG on the internet. What do you want me to do? LEAVE? Then they'll keep being wrong!"
-Randall Munroe
by pdl on Feb 7, 2010 1:38 PM EST up reply actions
Chael’s road to a takedown is bumpy. He supposedly got rocked bad before he completed the first takedown. Not to mention two or three knees he ate befor going to the mat…
by dancingChicken on Feb 7, 2010 1:57 PM EST up reply actions
Chael isn’t finishing Silva and he has to survive five rounds without being subbed. I will pay to see it but I just don’t see him making it out of that fight conscious.
Giving Shogun his props. I had the fight 48-47 Machida but Shogun put up a monumental performance and I am honored to have seen it in person.
Serra vs Baroni, Yoshida, Swick or even Blackburn would be cool
"He will lie between resentment and regret. He shed his grace. As certain as a snake sheds its skin. Laid waste to a wealth of talent--his curse being blessed with treasures that just were not gold enough"
by ProfessorBLove on Feb 7, 2010 11:41 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
agreed, I don’t like all these subtle undertones people seem to have that Serra is done in some way. The man’s got a lot of fight left in him and I’m excited to see him again.
"I fight because I can’t sing, I can’t dance, and it beats working all day. Now ask me a question that doesn’t sound so fucking stupid." – Phil Baroni
I agree...
I think he’s more than capable of being competitive.. And he looks to be in the best shape he’s been in in a while. Before the 2nd GSP fight he had a bit of a slight gut, and was recovering from back surgery… I still think he has a lot left to do in the UFC.
I'm like PacMan fightin you silly kids... throw ya Hatton the ring, and get knocked outlike Ricky did.
lol.
Nice performance by Sonnen. For the most of the time it looked like he’s on auto-pilot. It was strange that he looked helpless on Nate’s back though, like he didn’t see a RNC in his life. Maybe it was because of the damage he received, but it was odd to see him on Nate’s back, firing arm punches.
nate’s shoulder/ jaw build would lead one to believe that sinking a RNC on him is very unlikely
by Austin Martin on Feb 7, 2010 11:45 AM EST up reply actions
republicans don’t “take the back” or do rear naked anything with other men.
by Phildo on Feb 7, 2010 11:46 AM EST up reply actions 5 recs
I don’t know… there were couple of positions when I thought “Chael’s republican buddies wont like this”
by dancingChicken on Feb 7, 2010 11:48 AM EST up reply actions
apparently my comment about this was considered useless trolling on the recap but you managed to get yours through. As Randy Travis would say, “Good Job.”
Mark it 8 Dude.
by Earl Montclair on Feb 7, 2010 1:06 PM EST up reply actions
Larry Craig.
Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try Again. Fail again. Fail better. -Samuel Beckett
by Scott C. Broussard on Feb 7, 2010 1:36 PM EST up reply actions
i was EXTREMELY impressed at the ease chael got his takedowns and was able to keep nate down. nate trains with some elite wrestlers, but i get the feeling that he didnt think chael’s wrestling was going to be quite that good, and didn’t train his guard enough. but no credit can be taken away from sonnen, who was put in some awful positions and overcame the grappling strength of nate… i was almost positive that the early guillotine was sunk. plus he did all this with a gash in his forehead. I was just so impressed to see him doing all of this. He’s like a rebirth of Hendo without the power. I see chael as a MW randy, but instead of doing damage in the clinch, he dominates in top control.
Chael's wrestling was good
But I think Nate made it easy for him to get the takedowns by winging wild looping punches that he could easily duck under and shoot in. If you don’t want to be taken down but a superior wrestler you don’t do stuff like that. Anderson or Vitor will keep it standing long enough to pick him apart and if they do get taken down they both are active off of their backs. Chael is much better than I was giving him credit for though. I just don’t see him beating either Vitor or Anderson.
"I will do nothing lightly. When I walk, I will walk heavily. When I fight, I will fight with conviction. When I speak, I will speak strongly. When I love, I will love with everything"
I vote for that too!
But he definitely still wants to compete.
by asa on Feb 7, 2010 3:10 PM EST up reply actions
Absolutely
While I think Randy’s days as a top title contender are done, he obviously still has enough skill and physical ability to win against most anybody else on the senior circuit, and probably a fair number of the mid-division guys.
While I’d love to see Randy become a full-time trainer / commentator, I think he still has what it takes to pull out a few more good entertaining fights.
"I want to tell me what you see, let's go ahead and see by in the fight, what you saw, in the ring." - Tito Ortiz
Swick getting chocked the fuck out made my week… These little AKA snots calling out hughes and giggling in their little clique needed a bitch slap…
Fitch is likely next when Alves knocks him the fuck out. It’s not funny anymore once you become the “hughes” and the new guys start calling you out for an easy win… only none of these AKA guys will ever get to Matt’s stature in their careers.
by mmalogic on Feb 7, 2010 12:00 PM EST reply actions 2 recs
Paulo "AKA Killer" Thiago
I TOTALLY fucking agree with you on the AKA boys. Swick getting choked out was the best thing so far this year. I’m really loving Thiago right now. He should give himself a new nickname. I was getting kind of bored with the AKA dudes clogging the top of the WW ladder and refusing to fight each other. Alves is definitely going to KO Fitch in the rematch. If Pierce can catch Fitch, Alves can do it to.
You have to be the man... you have to be very, like, alpha male with her. You know? Decide what you do and everything. So, show her who's the boss, you know? - GSP
I agree with both of you too
I was hoping for a Thiago win for the very reasons you guys laid out. The AKA boys deserve this for refusing to fight each other. Now we will see if they will fight each other to get back to the top of the ladder.
"I will do nothing lightly. When I walk, I will walk heavily. When I fight, I will fight with conviction. When I speak, I will speak strongly. When I love, I will love with everything"
You mean the number 2 and number 4 welterweights
need to climb back up the ladder? And #2 is fighting #3 and #4 is fighting #6 isn’t compelling enough, so you need to get them to fight each other? Awesome.
"Someone is WRONG on the internet. What do you want me to do? LEAVE? Then they'll keep being wrong!"
-Randall Munroe
by pdl on Feb 7, 2010 4:14 PM EST up reply actions
Yeah
When Fitch loses and goes back down the ladder. Then you have at least Swick and Fitch trying to get back up for a title shot. If Fitch doesn’t lose then you don’t have this situation.
"I will do nothing lightly. When I walk, I will walk heavily. When I fight, I will fight with conviction. When I speak, I will speak strongly. When I love, I will love with everything"
I mean
did you even bother to read the two posts above mine?
"I will do nothing lightly. When I walk, I will walk heavily. When I fight, I will fight with conviction. When I speak, I will speak strongly. When I love, I will love with everything"
Swick isn't that great though, and I think Hughes could take that fight still.
Fitch is a pretty solid lock for #2 in the world at WW right now, and Koscheck is clearly a top 5. I don’t see any of them being a “Hughes” since Kos and Fitch are real tough fights for anybody and accepting tough fights, while Swick isn’t over the hill. He’s just overhyped.
"Someone is WRONG on the internet. What do you want me to do? LEAVE? Then they'll keep being wrong!"
-Randall Munroe
Yeah, I’ve always felt that Swick was the weakest of the AKA bunch. Never been too impressed with anything he had. I would like to see Swick / Saunders 2.
You have to be the man... you have to be very, like, alpha male with her. You know? Decide what you do and everything. So, show her who's the boss, you know? - GSP
Enjoyed that too!
I love it when the AKA boys lose. Brown Pride is next!
by pwdminotauro on Feb 7, 2010 12:25 PM EST up reply actions
I don’t degrade Phil Davis’s performance because he didn’t finish. I think a lot has to do with the wrestling background where they just feel more comforatable to grind their oponent out. Just look at Sonnen/Nate or Lesnar/Herring for example. When Phil finally went for the armbar at the end he transitioner very smoothly I just think wrestlers in general prefer positional dominance. On another note Trigg is done as a fighter, I wouldn’t mind seeing him commentate some fights.
by xbuckeyex05 on Feb 7, 2010 12:09 PM EST via mobile reply actions
This just in: Welcome to the middleweight division, GSP!
Nate losing was a bummer, but I gotta give Chael his props. He can’t finish anyone, but his wrestling is ridiculous. He went at Nate like a man possessed. I’m kind of giddy to see what kind of dumb things he’ll say in the leadup to the title fight. The question is, can he do the same thing to Silva? At any rate, Nate’s loss should be the incentive GSP needs to finally jump into the MW pool.
You have to be the man... you have to be very, like, alpha male with her. You know? Decide what you do and everything. So, show her who's the boss, you know? - GSP
i actually completely disagree with the assessment of Davis’s performance. Unlike Chael who never once looked to finish, only lay “between Marq’s legs”, how very un-republican-like……Davis was continually looking to finish with sub’s. i’ve been pretty disparaging about wrestlers in the past who never look to submit or finish, just work the position and throw non-fight ending punches, but Davis was looking to submit a lot of the time. i was actually enjoying the fight.
i did not anticipate Chael taking Marq down like that at all. then to see Marq get to his feet only to throw a flying knee/get taken ddown, i was like, NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
when i saw Marq and Sonnen staring down at the center of the octagon….i got nervous for the first time since the fight was announced. it was weird.
Gatti. Dekkers. Pele. Aoki. Kang. Vanderlei. Basillio. Harry Greb.
by theworldsoldestsport on Feb 7, 2010 12:56 PM EST reply actions
I agree with you here.
Davis is green right now but I like that he tries to finish and I am really excited about his prospects. Training with Lloyd Irvin could make him a very scary submission artist with his wrestling skills.
phil davis should train with gsp and mimic everything he does
they are the same person
by Austin Martin on Feb 7, 2010 2:29 PM EST up reply actions
That’s kind of the point though. He DIDN’T finish
Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
MMA Editor - SBNation.com
by Brent Brookhouse on Feb 8, 2010 4:24 AM EST up reply actions
For his 5th pro fight
I’m fine with him not finishing. Dude’s got a ton of talent, and he’s damned young.
You missed Trigg and Coleman embarrassing their way to retirement/out of the UFC.
The Seattle Times linked to my website in June 2009. I wasn't aware of this until January 2010.
by SSreporters on Feb 7, 2010 2:30 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
And Chael Sonnen putting on the best performance of his career. In one of the better fights of this new year.
that was definately one of the most dominant decisions i’ve ever seen. and that’s not to take anything away from chael, because he broke nate’s will
by Austin Martin on Feb 7, 2010 2:45 PM EST up reply actions
I don't Know...
I really enjoyed this card…. I was snowed in, and it was a highlight of my very good weekend. Matt opened my night off well… I thought Swick vs. Thiago was a good fight… Chael was IMPRESSIVE… and far from boring…. Phil Davis’s debut was a dominating affair…. His striking looked awkward at first, but i can tell he trains with Irvin as he cuts corners/uses footwork a bit similar to Vera in the way he moves in and out…. I really wanted Coleman to win, but he looked done. Rolles gracie was a dissapointment to say the least tho… and the prelims weren’t finishes like usual, but I thought Guillard and Danzig both looked good. It was a fun night for me and my girl….
I'm like PacMan fightin you silly kids... throw ya Hatton the ring, and get knocked outlike Ricky did.
lol.
I agree. I enjoyed watching this with my girl as well.
Chael surprised me with his dominance of Nate. It was still a fun fight to watch. Like I said in another thead, it was the most competitive 1 sided fight ever. Phil Davis’ wrestling was very impressive. That guy could be a dominant fighter in the years to come. I actually felt bad for Coleman after that loss even though I was going for Couture.
Confucius says:
"Baseball is wrong: man with four balls cannot walk."
I thought the robbery was
Torres getting screwed in his fight with gilliard. Melvin has gotten really suspect decisions in both of his last wins.
" Tell me something Steve, How does a guy from Puerto Rico loose a ball in the Sun? "
by aaronb on Feb 7, 2010 3:17 PM EST via mobile reply actions
He didn’t do anything with his takedowns and lost on the feet. Melvin was able to stuff a lot of the attempts and when he was down was getting back to his feet. I had it 29-28 Guillard.
twitter.com/thisredengine
definitely not a robbery
Guillard/Torres could have been scored either way, or a draw. It was a close fight.
certified warlord
It was a close fight, but I had it 29-28 Melvin as well. Torres should win his next fight though, he looked pretty good.
by HarmlessNinja on Feb 8, 2010 10:22 AM EST up reply actions
There are alot fo guys who will probably be leaving UFC after this card, Coleman, Trigg, Bucholz, Hague, and maybe Gracie.
Sonnen was very impressive, If I was with Team Takedown, I would get Jake Rosholt out to Team Quest to work with him for a little while.
Couture against Thiago Silva next? Just a thought that makes sense to me. Other ideas are Rich Franklin, and the Rashad v Rampage loser
I love Paulo Thiago, I could see UFC putting him in with Kim or Serra next.
Phil Davis has a ton of potential with his wrestling and athletic ability, but is still probably 12-18 months away from being a top 10 guy.
One thing
Randys on a two fight win streak at LHW and everybody you suggested would be coming off losses.
"You never know, I don't know, you know?" - Nick Diaz
I think they might keep Hague based on the fact that it was a close fight, they are lacking heavyweights and he is one of the few Canadian fighters.
I like Couture vs. Franklin but I think Stun Gun and Serra are steps down for Thiago, who is pretty close to top 5 in the division.
by HarmlessNinja on Feb 8, 2010 10:26 AM EST up reply actions
This is going to sound crazy, but:
Somebody needs to make Mike Goldberg go to a class on racial politics. I’m not saying that the guy is a racist – I don’t know, and I don’t care if he is. I just want him to stop ascribing the success of black athletes to their athleticism and strength and power without ever talking about their technique. Phil Davis is PURE wrestling technique, but you would have thought he was nothing but a gym rat from the way Mike talked about him.
I don’t know if Joe was doing it consciously, but every time Mike pulled out another “Guillard is so explosive!” Joe would say something about his technique. So for all the shit that gets talked about Joe: THANK YOU MR. ROGAN.
Again: I’m not saying that anybody is racist – I’m saying that Mike has picked up the bad habits of a lot of people and it makes him sound racist.
Don't believe a word I say, I don't train BJJ.
I blog at TangleBones - you should follow me on Twitter here.
If you like it, you should put a rec on it.
Also:
Coleman had saggy old-man boobs. You know? That’s a sign, sir.
Don't believe a word I say, I don't train BJJ.
I blog at TangleBones - you should follow me on Twitter here.
If you like it, you should put a rec on it.
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