More on the Potential April 24 WEC / Strikeforce Clash
by Brent Brookhouse on Feb 4, 2010 6:28 PM EST
in MMA News
Email
Print
At SBNation.com I attempted to break down more of the factors in the potential April 24 head-to-head clash between the WEC's first PPV attempt and Strikeforce's return to CBS. The main takeaways from the article are:
1. The WEC card is completely dependent on Urijah Faber staying healthy and fighting on the card. If something happens and Faber is hurt the event will lose close to all of it's "casual viewer appeal."
2. At $44.95 50,000 buys is very likely an acceptable success threshold for the WEC:
Judging by the price point of $44.95, 50,000 buys would bring in $2,247,500. Assuming roughly 60% takeout by cable/satilite companies/other sources there would be a leftover take-in of $899,000. The total disclosed fighter payout for WEC 46 was $272,000. Now we can assume somewhere around a 50% increase in the payouts based on the rumored card being much more stacked top-to-bottom than the average WEC event. That brings the total payout of $408,000. $899,000 - $408,000 = $491,000. This doesn't take in ticket sales, building rental, production costs...etc. But it would seem they would have to lose close to half a million dollars in these other areas for the event to be a "loss" should they manage to do 50k in PPV buys.
3. April 24 is one of the only dates that makes any degree of sense for the promotion's return to CBS:
The 10th is UFC 112 which is shaping up to be a mega-card. If Scott Coker has any input into what dates they can and can't run on, he would tell them to stay far away from going heads-up with this card. The 17th is a Super Six boxing card on Showtime. With Showtime being CBS owned there was no chance that they would put the two combat shows against each other. The 3rd is the only Saturday left in April and that would create a period of 5 MMA shows in a 4 week period which COULD hurt Strikeforce if fans choose to take a weekend off by skipping the non-UFC event
4. CBS has more of a decision on what date is available to Strikeforce than the promotion itself.
5. And the more obvious point that the WEC will be hurt more by a heads-up clash than Strikeforce.
Head over to SB Nation to read the full piece.
Update: BE community member bigern points out that the first game of the NCAA Final Four which will be broadcast on CBS is April 3. So that's yet another April date that does not work. Leaving only the 24th as an April date that makes any sense for Strikeforce.
67 comments
|
1 recs |
Do you like this story?
Comments
The fear of fans "skipping" a free card because of too much MMA on consecutive weekends
should be much, much less then having viewers directly cannibalized by another show. That’s just common sense. Who seriously says “There’s too much MMA coming up, I’ll just take this weekend off, even though the card is free.”
It’s not an issue for hardcore fans. But Joe Casualfan is absolutely going to decide to skip an event if he has done a ton lately.
Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
MMA Editor - SBNation.com
by Brent Brookhouse on Feb 4, 2010 5:11 PM EST up reply actions
Who seriously says "There’s too much MMA coming up, I’ll just take this weekend off, even though the card is free."
Trust me, there are TONS of people who say this. Of the group of friends that I have who come over for the shows, I’m the hardcore, and all the rest of different levels of casual. And trust me, when there’re more than 2 shows in a month, interest wanes big time.
One more point. Speaking just for my group of fans, no one cares about the free/not free part of it. $45+tax/6 is $8 a head. Compelling cards is what matters at that price.
you are assuming everybody in the entire world who buys ppv’s splits it with 6 people.
"For some reason Dana White doesn't like me, and I don't care enough to find out why. So he can go pound sand up his ass as far as I'm concerned."
Don Frye
by keyboardwarrior on Feb 4, 2010 5:27 PM EST up reply actions
Even divided by four, it’s only $12… and if you’re ponying up the money by yourself or just one other person, you probably don’t fit into the “casual fan” category.
I usually just watch with my wife.....
So I’m eating the entire 44.95. Even when we have friends over, I don’t take up a collection at the door. They just bring a pizza or some drinks or whatever. I always pay for PPV when I host. So I’m skipping this one just as my way of telling Zuffa, WEC PPV isn’t the answer to paying the stars there what they are worth. Putting them in the UFC at 135 and 145 is the answer. In the UFC they will get the purses and the sponsorship dollars they deserve.
There is plenty of money
I have a feeling everybody would be taken back if Zuffa ever had to open the books to the public. Fighters pay could definetly be increased
In fact...
he didn’t assume anything.
I'm like PacMan fightin you silly kids... throw ya Hatton the ring, and get knocked outlike Ricky did.
lol.
I agree
I have buddies that come once a month to watch the UFC ppv who cant understand the obsession. Two weeks in a row is a strech, two nights in a row aint happening
The schedule listed here serves a better purpose of illustrating why Strikeforce will never gain any meaningful traction. They can pick the most favorable date… at the end of the day 3 or 4 shows on CBS per year in the middle of the UFC tsunami isnt gonna cut it – might as well have the show on the moon.
Coker cant take a shit without getting the go ahead from Showtime and CBS… let alone pick the dates he wants.
Depends on the size of the card. Showtime championship boxing (major event) cards take place at 9 generally, shobox is at 11
Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
MMA Editor - SBNation.com
by Brent Brookhouse on Feb 4, 2010 5:23 PM EST up reply actions
Ah!
Very true. I’ll add that on in to the story. You’re a genius
Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
MMA Editor - SBNation.com
by Brent Brookhouse on Feb 4, 2010 5:37 PM EST up reply actions
If April 24th is the only date available for StrikeForce, why would the WEC choose it? Wouldn’t they be better off going up against a different sport (boxing) on a pay channel (Showtime) than against another mma event on network tv?
5. And the more obvious point that the WEC will be hurt more by a heads-up clash than Strikeforce.
Maybe short term, but Strikeforce already has a lot of problems to deal with (how many more shows left until they’re literally out of title contenders?). The fact that this would simply be one more is more revealing than whether or not an “experiment” in PPV for an already very stable organization (WEC) might underperform.
Yes that may be true, but the article is focused on the short term.
Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
MMA Editor - SBNation.com
by Brent Brookhouse on Feb 4, 2010 6:15 PM EST up reply actions
Wouldn’t going head to head against the WEC also hurt Strikeforce in the short term? Zuffa doesn’t like people messing with their money. Competing head to head with their small promotion means that instead of replays of 107, you’ll have UFC PPVs headed by GSP going head to head with every Strikeforce card going forward.
twitter.com/thisredengine
What I don’t get is why this is being viewed as Strikeforce making a move to counter program. It was back in December that Coker was saying they were returning to CBS in april. Obviously they weren’t going to be on the 3rd as that is Final Four, or the 17th as that was the Super 6.
So that leaves the 10th which is UFC 112 or the 24th which up until a few days ago was nothing (except the rumored date for this Strikeforce show)
Now because Zuffa decided to go with that date for the WEC’s debut the theme from many seems to be that Strikeforce shouldn’t book that date either.
Again, CBS isn’t going to just let them have any date they want. So if they have been talking about the 24th, why is it SF’s job to get out of the way?
Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
MMA Editor - SBNation.com
by Brent Brookhouse on Feb 4, 2010 6:44 PM EST up reply actions 3 recs
I’m not saying that it’s their job to get out of the way. I realize that it’s not their decision when cards happen, you have to fit into a certain time slot that you don’t need to do with PPV/SpikeUFC tv. But to think that Zuffa don’t come at them with everything they’ve got going forward is naive. Every card Showtime/Strikeforce/CBS does will have some live Zuffa competition. As a fight fan I’m for this, but it sucks that this is the corner Strikeforce has been backed into.
twitter.com/thisredengine
Here's a list of dates they can't use in their target timeframe
March 27 – UFC 111
April 3 – Final Four
April 10 – UFC 112
April 17 – Super Six
April 24 – WEC
May 1 – Mayweather / Mosley
May 8 – UFC 113
May 15 – Appears to be open unless I’m forgetting something
May 22 – Vasquez / Marquez (Showtime)
There is one week (May 15) in a 9 week stretch there where they aren’t heads up against another event. April 3, 17 and May 22 are all out completely. They’d be retarded to go on May 1. They’d be dumb to go heads up with a major UFC event on March 22, April 10 or May 8.
And why bother pushing back to May 15 (which is far later than what they had planned all along) when you’re just going to get countered by Zuffa anyway?
I’m just saying that at some point SF has to say “this is our date, we’re running a show” and take their stand. CBS isn’t going to be too keen on getting jerked around by a promotion that is scared of what MAY happen if they decided to hold a show.
Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
MMA Editor - SBNation.com
by Brent Brookhouse on Feb 4, 2010 7:05 PM EST up reply actions
I should have said “list of dates with scheduled events” or something. not “dates they can’t use”
Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
MMA Editor - SBNation.com
by Brent Brookhouse on Feb 4, 2010 7:05 PM EST up reply actions
correct me if I am wrong, all of this is just a big coincidence with SF had to take the 24th because of Showtime/CBS schedule and WEC had to take the same date because it is the best venue wise?
I am. I think. I will. - Ayn Rand
It shouldn’t shock people that both Strikeforce and WEC want to avoid going up against big boxing PPV’s or the UFC. Its was bound to happen when the UFC schedules so many shows in that stretch.
understood.
Thanks to Brent too for explaining something that should have been obvious. It just felt like SF will counterprogram because WEC gave the exact date first, but should have done a quick research before banging the keyboard.
I am. I think. I will. - Ayn Rand
Flex your muscle
You paid for Fedor now use him. Zuffa has counter-programmed Strikeforce every show. One up em. Beat em or die trying.
I wanna see all those fights.
But to be honest I’ll probably watch the free one. Fedor, Hendo, and Mousasi > Urijah, Aldo, and Brown.
by HappyLittleTreez on Feb 4, 2010 7:23 PM EST reply actions
Haven’t most of WEC’s fights been on Sundays? So why didn’t they just set it on a Sunday as usual? And usually WWE ppvs are on Sunday and have no problem getting viewers.
by MikeD32 on Feb 4, 2010 7:26 PM EST via mobile reply actions
I wondered that too, why does every single thing have to only be on Saturdays? Doing the WEC show on Friday or Sunday shouldn’t be off the table. The WEC show is going to be a small drawing PPV anyway, I mean does anyone think it will crack 100k even under perfect circumstances? Doing it on their normal Sunday shouldn’t hurt that too much.
Strikeforce counter programming could blow up in it's face.
If Strikeforce puts on a big fight that night and the WEC fails, and subsequently folds as a company, being absorbed into the UFC, it would in essence be stacking the UFCs deck higher. WEC stars like Faber, Torres, Aldo, Brown would bring the UFC up another huge level. Their ability to bring in even bigger numbers on a more consistent basis would raise popularity. Forcing Strikeforce backward into obscurity. MMA would = UFC would become closer and closer to a reality in America.
See…this is what I think the problem is. It’s the phrasing everyone uses of “strikeforce is counterprogramming” This has more or less been the unspoken date for this show since December. Saying Strikeforce is counter programming is setting up a tone where they are actively seeking to take on another promotion.
Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
MMA Editor - SBNation.com
by Brent Brookhouse on Feb 4, 2010 8:29 PM EST up reply actions
You don’t think Zuffa was aware of everything Brent pointed out long before we knew it may be an issue? They will know exactly what it is if it happens.
It will be taken as what it is, the people at Zuffa know the same information that Brent has put together and how the dates fall. The fact that Strikeforce is on CBS at all was the shot across the bow.
I agree
and having a show up against WEC will be viewed as aggresion. It is what it is though. I think if the 24th goes down Zuffa will step it up more
Zuffa is going to do what they do regardless of what happens with this. Even if Strikeforce decided to do whatever it took to not put a event on that date the UFC is going to counter any show that happens at any time from any company, that’s just what competition does. CBS shows will always be countered by the UFC with a significant move.
Just thinking aloud here
Is there any chance of the UFC putting one UFC fight on the WEC PPV? Maybe Couture v. someone? Just curious how that would tilt public opinion…
I dunno…but that almost seems like it would be them admitting that the brand needs support to be worth ordering.
Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
MMA Editor - SBNation.com
by Brent Brookhouse on Feb 4, 2010 8:30 PM EST up reply actions
I think a WEC-ufc cross promotion is exactly the bump the WEC needs to get the PPV $ rolling in. I think there’s tons of synergy to be had. I’m guessing the UFC execs are fighting this idea tooth and nail because although Zuffa would likely make more overall the UFC could very well lose revenue as a result of PPV revenue cannibalization.
I also think that Zuffa either needs to merge the UFC and WEC, take an in between step and start cross promoting where “cross promotion” is defined loosely enough to allow a 135 lb fight on a UFC card and a 205 LHW fight on a WEC card or start shopping the WEC around. I would think Strikeforce would pay a healthy premium above whatever the WEC would trade at if it were a listed company.
The UFC and WEC are two separate companies with separate fighter contracts, they also use very diiferent sized cages. It’s just not that easy to stick a UFC fight on WEC show or vice-versa. Going through the trouble of putting a UFC main event on a WEC card defeats the purpose of having a separate WEC to start with. Really this PPV seems to be as much a test of whether the WEC should keep existing or if it all should just be merged into a bigger UFC. Heck the writing is on the wall with a upcoming UFC show on Versus.
I feel bad for the fighters in WEC . This does not bode well for a pay increase. It honestly pisses me off when I see the pay outs after a WEC show.
If the PPV flops maybe Zuffa will just go ahead and merge the two companies. That would change the payouts real quick and put the WEC guys on major shows.
I love the WEC shows and the fact that these smaller guys get to be showcased in their own organization but the WEC just isn’t ever going to have the audience or make the money that the UFC does and without that the WEC payouts are always going to lag behind(in both direct pay and sponsorship money). In the UFC guys like Faber and Torres and Brown can be stars and everyone that moves over is going to end up making more in the long run.
The WEC has to combine with the UFC. Like it or not without the heavier weight classes the WEC will suffer. Not everyone is like you. People want the big boys
irritated
That Reid calls upon the fans to buy this ppv and help the fighters make more money when Zuffa is raking it in. And charge $45? That rubs me the wrong way. But I am bitter being with DirecTV and lost the wec a while ago.
He’s not calling on the fans to help the fighters make money, he’s calling on the fans who wine and complain about fighter pay to put their money where their mouth is.
They can’t pay out more than they take in. If it’s true that they’ll be happy with 50k buys, you can figure out how much that money will be, and that gives you a hint of how little they are getting from vs when they put on cards. To pay the fighters more they need to increase revenue, to increase revenue they need to be on ppv, it’s simple.
Where is the event again?
Faber in the Sacramento market has carried the WEC’s profit margin. If the event is in Sacramento than the WEC has already lost 50% of their possible PPV buyers who will instead be attending the event.
Yeah...
it’s in Sac
Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
MMA Editor - SBNation.com
by Brent Brookhouse on Feb 4, 2010 11:26 PM EST up reply actions
Comments For This Post Are Closed
Secondary Sidebar
User Tools
FanPosts
Community blog posts and discussion.
Recommended FanPosts
Recent FanPosts
MMA Rankings
Certain photos copyright © 2012 by Associated Press or Getty Images. Any commercial use or distribution without the express written consent of Associated Press and Getty Images is strictly prohibited.
