WEC's Reed Harris Offers Details on WEC's First Pay-Per-View Event
"This is part of trying to grow and pay fighters more. To be able to put on bigger events, sign new fighters." - Reed Haris
I spoke yesterday with WEC General Manager Reed Harris about his organization's first scheduled PPV event. I wanted to know why the timing was made for April, how the decision to move forward was calculated, what the WEC feels are compelling reasons to make WEC 48 a PPV card, why the price point was made at $44.95 and more.
Here are the early details:
1. The date was selected in part to nail down the Sacramento venue. With their most financially lucrative star in Urijah Faber headlining for a title in the main event, it only makes sense to ensure the crowd will be as loud, thick and MMA-savvy as possible. Sacramento has historically shown to be hugely favorable territory for the WEC.
2. According to Harris, their planning of an April 24th show did not take into account any potential Strikeforce plans to also host a Fedor Emelianenko-headlined fight in April.
3.The decision to move forward with a PPV was done by WEC brass in conjunction with UFC President Dana White and Lorenzo Fertitta. The logic, as it was explained to me, was that with two title fights and a card filled with highly-ranked, pound-for-pound greats, the card merited moving in that direction. "With five fights and two titles on the line, they feel upstairs that we are the same caliber and quality as UFC events," said Harris.
4. As for the price point, the decision to place the cost at $44.95 "was made corporately". Harris insists extensive research was done into PPV watching and purchasing habits. He argues the internal data they received gives them the confidence to move forward with the PPV effort, but did not elaborate beyond that. He also insisted given what the event offered, it was worth the cost of a UFC PPV.
5. Here's a clever twist: the event will be known as "UFC Presents...WEC 48: Aldo vs. Faber". When asked about the extent to which the UFC would use their marketing and PR muscle to assist the WEC, assurances were made that both organizations would work together to properly promote and cross promote the effort. No specific details were offered as to promotional events, branding, event signage or other items at the time of the call.
6. As for initial goals about what kind of buyrate they're expecting, Harris acknowledged the WEC internally has benchmarks in mind, but would not disclose those figures.
7. Harris reminded me that the free shows on Versus would not be going away, but that "We've [the WEC] been providing free shows for ten years now".
8. Just like normal UFC PPVs, provided there is time permitting, under card fights will be shown on the main broadcast.
Again, the key takeaway for me from my conversation with Harris was less about whether the MMA or PPV market was cluttered (although I'm sure it was factored in) and more about an internal look at what the WEC needed to do to make the next step in its evolution. The first foray into PPV is never going to be without issues or challenges, but the WEC believes there is enough going in its favor with the availability of talent, the sellability of the card given the talent, the location of a suitable venue and the meaningfulness of two title fights to warrant the leap.
Harris also made a point to put the ball in the court of MMA fans. "We hear a lot of people talk about how they want the sport to grow," said Harris. "If the fans support this, there could be a second company producing events as we are. It could really allow the sport to grow."
While the MMA community has often wandered into discussions about Zuffa or UFC revenue sharing percentages relative to other sports leagues, the WEC's clear contention is that for purses and WEC visibility to increase - remember: "This is part of trying to grow and pay fighters more, to be able to put on bigger events, sign new fighters" - the fans have something of a responsibility to support this effort. The WEC clearly believes it's offering a valuable product and isn't drawing a line in the sand inasmuch as they are issuing a call to action.
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“We hear a lot of people talk about how they want the sport to grow,” said Harris. “If the fans support this, there could be a second company producing events as we are. It could really allow the sport to grow.”
Maybe mma is like prowrestling and Zuffa is going to make their own RAW – a fake competitor.
I know I'm in the minority on this
but I’m more excited about this PPV than I am most of the forthcoming UFC PPVs. The WEC fighters on this card are easily as entertaining, if not as skilled, as some of the UFC cards coming up.
Think; It's not illegal yet.
by azruavatar on Feb 4, 2010 1:42 PM EST reply actions 2 recs
The whole Strikeforce on April 24th thing is getting way overblown
The reality is Strikeforce has little to no say on when the card goes on CBS. If CBS says hey your going on April 10th against UFC 112 then that’s when they’re going on.
Now I’m sure Strikeforce and Coker can say this day works best for us but the reality is this is CBS’ call.
Now regardless of how bad you think this PPV is gonna do, it would be foolish on CBS and Strikeforce’s part to do it on the same day because you might cost yourself pottential viewers. Sure it might only be 10k or 20k hell maybe even 5k but if you do the Fedor card on a different date you have the potential to maximize your audience.
The only way moving StrikeForce to the 24th makes sense, if they know that Zuffa plans to run a big, live Spike card against them and that CBS can accommodate such a move. If not, stay with your original plan and just go up against a repeat of UFC 109 or 110.
A free CBS card would destroy a WEC PPV. Not because the WEC card can’t compete for the hardcore audience, but anyone besides the ‘money is no object’ hardcore has to consider the CBS card an easy choice. Personally, I can’t wait to see Aldo back in the cage, but I’ll catch it later and save some cash.
same here dude.
I just hope that if ever the day comes and the WEC falters, that they’d finally merge/move their top fighters and divisions to the UFC, and keep WEC as a real feeder circuit for UFC washouts.
Like the UFC’s DLeague where they can hold tourneys on all weightclasses, with prospects and UFC vets for a shot at the WEC title, or maybe another way into the UFC.
PS
Matulog ka na. hahaha. ;)
by Anton Tabuena on Feb 4, 2010 1:48 PM EST up reply actions
I love WEC, and wish that they keep the same format. Its just unfortunate they have to do this to increase fighters’ pay. I think nottheface suggested to include some WEC fighters in a UFC PPV, i pretty much agree w/ it.
Graveyard. Working for arguably the biggest bank in US. I basically live the same time zone w/ the majority of peeps here.
I am. I think. I will. - Ayn Rand
yeah,
that’s a good idea to get them more exposure… The thing I mentioned was only if they fail with their PPV venture and get in major trouble. (which I hope doesn’t happen).
and I know it probably won’t happen, but man do I wish that they show this here since it’s “UFC presents” already. haha.
by Anton Tabuena on Feb 4, 2010 1:59 PM EST up reply actions
Great Job Luke...
Rec’d for information from the horse’s mouth….
I'm like PacMan fightin you silly kids... throw ya Hatton the ring, and get knocked outlike Ricky did.
lol.
This card is just so good
I’m grateful I have enough MMA-minded friends that the whole month won’t cost me more than 40 bucks.
Luke, what’s the benchmark you think they’re setting? 200-250k?
It's very hard to say
But to 250k to 300k has to be the upper, upper most ceiling. I think it’s more likely between 100k to 150k.
Follow me on Twitter: @MMANation.
If it goes heads up with Strikeforce it’ll be a struggle to get to 75k
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by Brent Brookhouse on Feb 4, 2010 1:54 PM EST up reply actions
Sad thing is, the amount of talent on this card translated to UFC would most likely sell a lot more than 100k
This is something people don’t get. The lower classes will take time to build even in the UFC. Even the LW title fights before BJ, didn’t headline. They won’t throw Aldo in as a main event fighter right away even if his talent warrants it. The same people who buy UFC and won’t bother with even watching a free WEC are the people you are talking about and if they see Aldo they will say “who?” Its a sad state, but its reality. The price of $FREE.99 has done a lot of good because diehards are hooked, but it doesn’t do anything to help raise the rep of more casual fans. People tend to believe you get what you pay for. Doing a PPV with WEC talent is like going from 0 to 60. Its a huge leap. Even with big marketing it will be hard to imply the value that makes people open up the wallet. But we should be comparing WEC on PPV to Affliction’s foray into PPV. I think that is more like apples to apples then measuring WEC against the giant of the UFC name.
Some people think I am a dumb, ugly human being, but really I am a beautiful ape, with exceptional verbal skills.
I agree.
I said a few days back that the FW and BW titles could not headline a UFC card if they were to be absorbed. It would take about a year of them being under other title fights or having an epicly good co-main. Most fans don’t know them yet, and it will take time for them to care.
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-Randall Munroe
by pdl on Feb 4, 2010 2:57 PM EST up reply actions
yep,
affliction grossly overpaid everyone, while the WEC (understandably) underpays.
by Anton Tabuena on Feb 4, 2010 2:00 PM EST up reply actions
What bigd said below.
It might be a greater financial success, but will it have as many buys? Interesting to see.
"Someone is WRONG on the internet. What do you want me to do? LEAVE? Then they'll keep being wrong!"
-Randall Munroe
by pdl on Feb 4, 2010 2:02 PM EST up reply actions
It will have as many buys. Affliction didn’t have the UFC marketing train behind it like WEC does. I think we could be underselling the amount of PPV’s here by quite a bit
"For some reason Dana White doesn't like me, and I don't care enough to find out why. So he can go pound sand up his ass as far as I'm concerned."
Don Frye
by keyboardwarrior on Feb 4, 2010 2:11 PM EST up reply actions
I don't know either way.
WEC has basic cable hype for the fighters that Affliction didn’t. Affliction had bigger names and more mainstream fighters than WEC does. I could see it going either way.
"Someone is WRONG on the internet. What do you want me to do? LEAVE? Then they'll keep being wrong!"
-Randall Munroe
by pdl on Feb 4, 2010 2:14 PM EST up reply actions
PPV wise - No
Money Wise – Yes. Had Affliction not been overpaying almost all their fighters they might have actually made some money.
I rec this
My favorite thing you’ve written in quite some time.
I’m curious how they intend to market this card and if it’s possible that the UFC Presents: would allow them to do a Countdown show on Spike. I really hope this PPV does well enough that they can put on a bi-annual PPV, with a ceiling of quarterly PPV’s. If not, well, integrate that shit. It seems partly stubborn that they aren’t, so maybe a poor buyrate will convince them.
Blackout612- "Wuts teh UFC?"
Ubernoober- "It like two guy who just stand and swing for fence and try to knock each other shit out it awesome"
If the UFC can have a card on Versus, does the WEC have the same clause in their TV contract to put a card on Spike? That would be a great way to introduce a lot of UFC Spike fans to their product. Maybe not for this event, but for future ones.
Why not start here? Faber is already pretty damn popular. I also feel like they should have done this card outside of Sac-town to get all of his many fans in the area to buck up for the PPV. I’ll be curious to see how many people are like “man, I have to pay for WEC now? But I can’t miss a Faber fight!”. It’s gonna be hard to quantify the buys for this, methinks. I’ll guess it does around 200, unopposed.
Blackout612- "Wuts teh UFC?"
Ubernoober- "It like two guy who just stand and swing for fence and try to knock each other shit out it awesome"
1) If they get close or go over 100K it would a huge success.
2) < 50-60K Failure
3) So, if they can get anywhere above 50K-60K, they would be happy.
4) It’s a given the UFC will try to promote and put their logo and brand power as much as they can to get “UFC Only” fans to but this evnet.
I actually don't think You're too far off...
I'm like PacMan fightin you silly kids... throw ya Hatton the ring, and get knocked outlike Ricky did.
lol.
slightly, haha.
I'm like PacMan fightin you silly kids... throw ya Hatton the ring, and get knocked outlike Ricky did.
lol.
This really shows the brand power of the UFC. I never realized how much of a factor that was, but this is a stacked card and since it is WEC and not UFC it isn’t considered to be worth $45. If UFC 108 was worth $45, this card definitely is.
I don’t know if we can call it stacked yet. Only three fights have been announced and of those only two of them, Jose Aldo vs. Urijah Faber and Mike Brown vs. Manvel Gamburyan, are what I would describe as top fights. The lightweight championship bout between Ben Henderson vs. Donald Cerrone will probably be exciting, but only Henderson is ranked in the top 25.
But if they add Miguel vs Bowles, this goes down as the best card of they year.
Henderson is ranked 15
for beating guys not in the top 25. It’s a hype ranking. He’s no better than Clay Guida.
"Someone is WRONG on the internet. What do you want me to do? LEAVE? Then they'll keep being wrong!"
-Randall Munroe
by pdl on Feb 4, 2010 2:54 PM EST up reply actions
fold the WEC info the UFC already
Can we stop f’ing around and get the WEC folded into the UFC already? Zuffa is already asking fans to buy about 15 UFC ppv’s a year, which is stretching it. They should be trying to put on more quality free shows to expand their viewer base instead of more ppv events. The best way to do this is to get the WEC fighters (and additional weight classes) in the UFC. As a result the PPV events will be just as good as before and the overflow that doesn’t fit in the PPV events and goes on free TV will increase in quality.
Meltzer says:
They were going to budget the show to where they would come out okay with 50,000 to 60,000 buys (that was the level they were hoping for, less than 50K and they weren’t going to be happy, at 75K they’d be doing cartwheels).
This is much more realistic than talking 150+.
http://www.twitter.com/TB_Money
Pretty darn close to what I wrote above. And you are wondering why, you have to analyze to see what non-UFC promotions have done on the PPV level and it makes sense.
I know why, I’m just relaying in from a very reliable source (not that you aren’t!) so people can see that not everyone has blown-up expectations for this thing.
http://www.twitter.com/TB_Money
Woah
I guess I’m disillusioned with how they plan to market this (like, not at all). Faber gets front-page treatment in local publications. Too bad they couldn’t stick Pulver on the card somewhere— he’s still quite popular.
Blackout612- "Wuts teh UFC?"
Ubernoober- "It like two guy who just stand and swing for fence and try to knock each other shit out it awesome"
There's still time, right?
"The moment you stop thinking you're the best, it's time for you to get out the game." -'King' Mo Lawal
I suppose
But Meltzer estimating that they’d be doing fuckin cartwheels at 75k was a bit startling. I’d like to think these guys have developed some credibility with their demo. Cerrone is dynamite to watch, Faber is popular as all-hell, and people know they’re going to see a fantastic show every time the WEC puts on a live card. With the proper marketing, and the UFC nudging it along and mentioning it during their PPV telecasts, I feel it could exceed that number. But hey, I’m not an expert on buy-rates, despite the fact that I’ve been relatively close in the past just from experience and my marketing experience.
Mark me down for 200k w/proper marketing & unopposed. I’ll stick to that figure, even if it is batshit crazy.
Blackout612- "Wuts teh UFC?"
Ubernoober- "It like two guy who just stand and swing for fence and try to knock each other shit out it awesome"
I think if the experiment works and the WEC promotes 2 PPV’s a year with huge cards, they could eventually do 200k one day. That’s very, very tough to do as a new product to PPV though, especially when your fans are conditioned to getting free fights. Marketing isn’t really going to help, methinks. You’re either already interested in the product or you’re not. People have had years to test the product for free. I don’t think you’re going to draw new viewers to the PPV concept right now, with big brother (UFC)‘s help or not. Once it becomes a semi-regular thing, there’s a better chance for growth. Right out of the gate, if they beat Affliction’s PPV numbers, that would be a MAJOR win, IMO.
http://www.twitter.com/TB_Money
Of course marketing works
I won’t even debate that point, because it’s kind of silly. And there is a lot of crossover between the UFC and WEC products. Using the UFC to facilitate the marketing of the WEC event will help.
Blackout612- "Wuts teh UFC?"
Ubernoober- "It like two guy who just stand and swing for fence and try to knock each other shit out it awesome"
If this is presented by the UFC, does this mean it is going to be offered to bars as part of the UFC package plans. Some bars just up for every UFC event, if this is offered as part of the UFC a lot of them may just sign on without thinking about it. How many buys does that count as?
Not a great many
But bars pay significantly more for PPV’s than you do at home (dependent on capacity). Many bars that order UFC’s likely won’t order this, or they will gauge interest from their patrons. If there aren’t a lot of competing sporting events for that night, sports bars will consider it.
Blackout612- "Wuts teh UFC?"
Ubernoober- "It like two guy who just stand and swing for fence and try to knock each other shit out it awesome"
I think that we’ll get a better idea of the buy rate after this upcoming event. Faber cards tend to be very popular. If they can continue the numbers from Bendo/Varner then I’ll say that 150k will be the cartwheel number. 200k and they’ll be base jumping off the roof of the palms.
twitter.com/thisredengine
I'll have a piece up in a few minutes that kind of tackles that whole thing.
Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
MMA Editor - SBNation.com
by Brent Brookhouse on Feb 4, 2010 3:17 PM EST up reply actions
75K = cartwheels? Strikeforce is definitely going to do the CBS card on the 24th.
I am. I think. I will. - Ayn Rand
If they do that, you won’t just see UFC replays on Spike. Zuffa will go for the jugular.
twitter.com/thisredengine
Zuffa is not going to counter program themselves though, there isn’t going to be any UFC replays when there is a live WEC event.
Pain is Temporary
Pride is Forever
I mean that future CBS/Strikeforce cards won’t have UFC replays…you’ll see them counter with live cards.
twitter.com/thisredengine
no worries brotha, I reread what I wrote and wasn’t super clear. I just think that you don’t want to pick on the UFC’s little brother cause then you get the shit kicked outta you by the Big Brother.
twitter.com/thisredengine
unless the big brother is Ninja and the little brother is Shogun :p
Pain is Temporary
Pride is Forever
by Orcus on Feb 4, 2010 4:41 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I an expecting 150K to 200K buys for WEC. But if Meltzer, a pretty credible source, is saying that 75K would be great for WEC, it gives you an idea that he knows SF would counter program.
I am. I think. I will. - Ayn Rand
I don’t think so.
Let’s say they get 20 bucks a PPV buy. 75k buys is 1.5 million dollars, that’s got to be a lot more than what they can get for vs, and is a lot of money for them.
Meltzer and the people at the WEC have a better idea of what it would do than we do.
Wasnt really thinking about the Sales – Cost avenue but what you said is pretty logical.
I am. I think. I will. - Ayn Rand
yea, that’s the thing, lots of people are talking about ppv buys from thinking about what would be good for a ufc card or what was considered successful for Affliction, but this isn’t the case at all. WEC has waaaaaaaaaaaay less overhead than those guys do.
To be a success they need to make more money than they can on a show with vs, and have enough to make at least faber happy. They don’t need 200k ppv buys to do that.
If only MMA was managed like the PGA where fighters could just join open tournaments for money, and sponsors would create invitiationals for big bucks. How great would that be.. the power would be in the hands of the fighters and not the promotions.
“Power in the hands of the fighers…”
That’s a disaster in the making.
by Dlanor A. Knox on Feb 4, 2010 3:32 PM EST up reply actions
both of those sports have people willing to shell out tons of money in sponsorships. both of those sports are also able to be played every week.
Miss the cut in a golf tournament (and don’t get paid), who cares, there’s a new one next week. Lose in the first round of an mma tournament, then what?
The good thing about the WEC is that thanks to their pay structure they can afford to dip their toe in and not lose an arm and a leg if thinks go bad. It continues to show just how serious Zuffa is about running that org and why imo they are the only one’s other than the UFC that really have any grasp in how to run a business and make any money I hope this goes off well. But either way i’ll be putting down the money to get this and hopefully they’ll stack it and make it as big as possible.
The fans have absolutely no responsibility in helping anything grow. The responsibility is all in the promoters hands to create something the fans want to see and want to pay for. I’m not going to pay for something out of responsibility, I’m going to pay because I want to see it. This is the entertainment industry after all.
I thought his answer too the price point was really weak. Of course he’s going to insist that it’s worth it; that means nothing, it’s ultimately the consumer that’s going to decide if it’s worth it, and I think they’re badly miscalculating. I’ve dealt with failed business after failed business who thought this way “we think it’s worth xx amount”, instead of “we think the market is going to be willing to pay xx amount”. It’s a huge recipe for disaster.

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