With Fedor Emelianenko Holding Out, Strikeforce's April 17th Card Depends on Herschel Walker
by Kid Nate on Feb 28, 2010 5:39 PM EST
in MMA News
133 comments
Dave Meltzer breaks it down:
Coming off a season as a coach on The Ultimate Fighter reality show, and a knockout win over Michael Bisping on UFC 100, the biggest pay-per-view MMA event in history, Henderson is at the peak of his U.S. popularity.
But there is some question whether he and Shields would be able to carry a show that has to do network prime time-level ratings.
...
(Herschel) Walker is the key because for major network prime time, the show needs a mainstream hook. Henderson is the only one of the four headliners who would have a chance to be that draw, as Lawal and Mousasi have not yet established names past the Hardcore audience in this country. Walker, who turns 48 next week but has the body of someone 20 years younger, is significantly better known than Henderson. Even though he's not a top-level fighter, his first fight proved to be a ratings winner and garnered a level of publicity than most Strikeforce events have been unable to get.
In addition to Shields vs Henderson, a possible Herschel Walker fight, and a possible Bobby Lashley fight, Meltzer is expecting Muhammad "King Mo" Lawal to get a crack at Gegard Mousasi's Strikeforce Light Heavyweight title.
While hardcore fans will be somewhat intrigued by Shields vs Henderson, the reality is that Shields is a true welterweight who puffed up to middleweight to avoid fighting training partner Nick Diaz. Hershel Walker is an amazing athlete, physical specimen, and all around great guy, but he's not a top MMA fighter by any stretch.
And while Bobby Lashley might have the potential to contend at the higher levels of the sport, that is very much an unproven proposition. If he fights the formidable Brett Rogers, he will be truly tested. That fight will have some relevance.
But Mousais vs Lawal is at a whole 'nother level. A fight between Mousasi, the #6 ranked light heavyweight in the USAT/SBN Consensus MMA Rankings, and Lawal who is ranked at #19 heavyweight and #21 light heavyweight is more than just a meeting between two top fighters. It's arguably a fight between the two most exciting prospects in the game today. This side of Jon Jones at least. I think Lawal is being rushed a bit, but that's the nature of fighting for the #2 promotion in Strikeforce. Not enough competition to build contenders at a leisurely pace.
Mousasi has essentially cleaned out Strikeforce's light heavyweight division by beating Renaldo "Babalu" Sobral and Sokoudjou. Plus Rafael "Feijao" Cavalcante's loss to Mike Kyle really slowed down Feijao's rise to the top.
One other dot that hasn't been connected yet, is this: when I wrote about Mousasi's split with Fedor's management company M-1 Global, I got the implications all wrong. In my naive optimism, I speculated that perhaps Mousasi's unhappiness with M-1 was a harbinger of Fedor's frustration with them too.
In retrospect it is clear that Mousasi parted ways with M-1 because he very much wants to fight on the April CBS card and M-1 wanted him to hold out along with Fedor. It was rumored that Mousasi's contract with M-1 and Strikeforce included a clause that bound Mousasi to only fight on Strikeforce cards that also featured Fedor. He clearly chose the better course -- being featured on CBS again will be worth far more than any increased monetary pay off that M-1 could squeeze out of CBS/Showtime/Strikeforce.
That is provided that King Mo doesn't demolish him, an unlikely but possible eventuality.
As to what Fedor is up to, it's hard to say. I suspect that DREAM is attampting to put together something with the Russian star. They have been trying to put something together for Josh Barnett, but both Tim Sylvia and Antonio Silva turned that fight down. So Fedor vs Josh in DREAM is a possibility, but the timing makes it seem unlikely for DREAM.13. Alistair Overeem is also possible, but M-1's sudden concern that the Dutchman be drug tested before a fight reeks of a negotiations gambit.
Luke Thomas once told me that Fedor doesn't duck fights out of fear, but he does have a career long pattern of behaving like a player at a blackjack table. Sometimes he passes, sometimes he says hit me. Luke compared Fedor's management's approach to that of Floyd Mayweather and I think that is an apt comparison.
Apparently Fedor and company didn't feel that the risk/reward ratio of facing #10 Fabiricio Werdum was right so they're taking a pass and waiting for the next hand. The thing is, Strikeforce might not be in position to do another deal if their April CBS card is a bomb.
A note about my methods: Unlike some of the other writers on Bloody Elbow (particularly Luke, Brent, and Rome), I am not an MMA insider. Nor am I a reporter. I am a fan who blogs about the sport based on what I read online and see on TV. I do not cultivate inside sources nor do I break stories. This, I like to think, leaves me latitude to engage in (un)informed speculation and report on rumors that I read about online without endangering my relationships with "sources" -- which is easy since I don't have any. So as always, please take my speculations with a great deal of salt.
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i hate to say it but this cards gonna tank
there just are no draws here for the casual fan
they dont have the best fighter at any weight class fighting on the card and henderson’s ko of bisping and stint on TUF were almost 8 months ago along with the fact that he has already proven to not be a solid draw
i also dont buy herscel walkers ability to draw viewers maybe he’ll prove me wrong but i doubt it, he shouldnt be headlining card
if this card tanks too its not a good thing for SF i dont think cbs was overly happy with the last numbers they pulled and a failed card would be bad news for SF
Maybe because they weren't very good?
by ufc4 on Feb 28, 2010 5:36 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
This is why it's a bad idea to put all of your proverbial eggs in one basket.
Fedor and M-1 are legendary for being incredibly difficult to negotiate with. There’s not even that much wrong with this card; Mousasi/Lawal and Henderson/Shields are two damn good matchups. However, without Fedor, there’s no real main event to anchor the card, and the ratings will likely reflect that. One show with bad ratings and the plug could get pulled really fast.
Without pain, without sacrifice, we would have nothing.
by lowellthehammer on Feb 28, 2010 5:09 PM EST reply actions
I don’t think that one show with lackluster rating will kill anything. CBS will still be hard up for cheap programming in the late summer, and Strikeforce’s deal with Showtime will still be in place.
Personally, I’m glad they’re trying to make a go of it with someone other than Fedor in the main event spot. But personally, I’d be trying to get Cyborg-Toughill on this show, and pump Cyborg up as a big star, while touting the “Triple Main Event” of three title fights. I’d also be putting together some kind of marketing of King Mo, a charismatic fighter who, win or lose, could be a big part of Strikeforce’s plans going forward. None of those guys are mainstream names who get mainstream sports coverage, but hopefully they can rely upon Herschel for that.
You're aware of what happened the last time there was a triple title fight on a major card right?
All three went to a decision and almost killed the promotion. That promotion was the UFC.
There’s no way in hell that they should schedule 3 5 round fights on CBS, and the problem they’re running into is there’s no other person to anchor the card around. Fedor and Overeem don’t care enough to fight in Strikeforce, Mousasi doesn’t have enough of a name yet, Henderson is far from a proven draw, Lawal hasn’t had any chance to become familiar to fans, and Shields is a ratings disaster. Herschel helps some, but he’s not a permanent solution.
Without pain, without sacrifice, we would have nothing.
by lowellthehammer on Feb 28, 2010 5:28 PM EST up reply actions
which UFC card was that?
New Orleans Saints - 2010 Super Bowl Champions. Unbelievable. Who Dat.
Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try Again. Fail again. Fail better. -Samuel Beckett
by themachiavellian on Feb 28, 2010 5:32 PM EST up reply actions
UFC 33
Ortiz/Matyushenko, Pulver defending his belt, and Menne/Castillo. To be fair the entire card top to bottom was decision heavy, but the three 25 minute decisions certainly hurt quite a bit.
Without pain, without sacrifice, we would have nothing.
by lowellthehammer on Feb 28, 2010 5:40 PM EST up reply actions
I don’t see why Mousasi isn’t marketed better. Future #1 P4P fighter. Close already. The guy is a stud. Has all the tools.
Future #1 P4P fighter that will most likely be in the UFC in 12 months.
by MMAGuard on Feb 28, 2010 5:14 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
As will any other real prospects from Strikeforce ultimately. Doesn’t mean they shouldn’t market them correctly when they have them.
by Postpubescent on Feb 28, 2010 6:02 PM EST up reply actions
"That is provided that King Mo doesn't demolish him, an unlikely but possible eventuality."
I don’t understand what this last sentence has to do with the previous few paragraghs?
by ALL4MMA on Feb 28, 2010 5:18 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
thanks for catching that
had a cut & paste error in the editing. fixed now.
trying to blog between diaper changes ain’t always easy!
Follow me on Twitter @KidNate
anyone know of this is Overeem’s real twitter account?
http://twitter.com/Alistairovereem
“march 23th DrEaM and May 15th Strikeforce”
I asked his manager.. We'll see.
For what it’s worth, his actual Facebook page has nothing other than he is currently training.
On a note like that, though, I’ve heard one of the fights might be against Neil Grove. Once again, grain of salt until I can get an official source.
Head Kick Legend
Twitter @HeadKickLegend
NEIL GROVE?
Holy shit Overeem… This is getting ridiculous.
Blackout612- "Wuts teh UFC?"
Ubernoober- "It like two guy who just stand and swing for fence and try to knock each other shit out it awesome"
Look on the bright side
It a major step up at this point.
lol, sad but true..
Head Kick Legend
Twitter @HeadKickLegend
I for one am floored that such a reputable organization as M-1 Global would deliberately cause such problems.
"I hope he tries to stand with me. That'd be great, I'd love it." - Heath Herring UFC 87 pre-fight interview.
by MostDiabolicalHater on Feb 28, 2010 5:30 PM EST reply actions 2 recs
I’ve got no beef with them using Walker as a trojan horse to get Strikeforce into American living rooms. Better than Kimbo Slice at least. But they’ll have a hell of a time finding good opponents for him. Maybe Ray Sefo?
BTW, I’m all for uninformed speculation, but declaring that Jake Shields is fighting at MW to avoid Nick Diaz and Mousasi left M-1 because of rumours about being promotionally tied to Fedor… that is more like jumping to conclusions. (Unless you have information you aren’t sharing in this post)
but declaring that Jake Shields is fighting at MW to avoid Nick Diaz … that is more like jumping to conclusions.
I thought they had stated previously that they didn’t want to fight one another. I’m far too lazy to do any real digging, but even if they never stated as such it’s not a huge logical leap for Nate to make given that most teammates actively try to avoid fighting one another.
I think Nate’s speculation—in this case, regarding Shields—is well-founded. Nick thanked Jake several times in the build-up to, and post-fight media following, his fight against Zaromskis. Saying “Jake, we did it bro” stuff like that. They train together. They’re part of the brat pack or wtfever they call themselves: Melendez, Diazx2, and Shields
by Postpubescent on Feb 28, 2010 6:05 PM EST up reply actions
Jake moved to MW because he has cleaned out the non-Zuffa WW division (with the one exception being Nick Diaz). MW is the only place he can find challenging fights.
Yeah
Didnt they originally offer him Riggs when he first signed with Strikeforce and he didnt want that so he moved up to face Lawler.
Shields and Diaz have been avoiding each other for years due to being friends, heck EliteXC created a whole weight class just for Nick Diaz so he wouldn’t have to fight in the same division as Jake Shields. They aren’t going to fight each other for any reason so one of them moves to a different weight class.
Wasn’t it previously reported (and confirmed) that Mousasi left M-1 because they were using him to build the promotion but wouldn’t give him the same deal as Fedor?
as per junkie
Mousasi’s longtime manager, Apy Echteld, on Friday told MMAjunkie.com (www.mmajunkie.com) that the decision to leave was made when an M-1 executive elected not to sign a long-term management proposal that would have given the Dutch-Armenian fighter “lifetime security” – a deal similar to one held by Fedor Emelianenko.
I am. I think. I will. - Ayn Rand
OH GAWD!!!! Even at this stage in Sefo’s career he’d f**king Decimate Hershcel, I dont care what kind of physical specimen people say he is, Ray is one of the hardest hitting dudes around and has been devoting some serious time to MMA training lately. Hell I still dont understand why SF doesnt promote and market him more. I know Ariel asked Ray about fighting Walker an he didnt have a clue as to who he even was :P Guess can use that as an angle lol. But ya, not Ray Sefo for Walker..one sided beat down for sure.
How do you Know where Im at? If you dont Know where Ive been...Understand where Im coming from??
just the idea of that headline
shows the mismanagement/unfortunate dealings with SF
I'm looking for the chicken and the rice. Please for you give me the chicken then you come with the rice or then you give me the rice and the chicken, I don't care.
To much salt
leads to high blood pressure. Among other things.
"I will do nothing lightly. When I walk, I will walk heavily. When I fight, I will fight with conviction. When I speak, I will speak strongly. When I love, I will love with everything"
Talk to your doctor before reading this post, as there is some risk of heart failure.
Without pain, without sacrifice, we would have nothing.
by lowellthehammer on Feb 28, 2010 5:49 PM EST up reply actions 3 recs
haha!
Nice!
"I will do nothing lightly. When I walk, I will walk heavily. When I fight, I will fight with conviction. When I speak, I will speak strongly. When I love, I will love with everything"
Also..
After talking to some M-1 guys this weekend, their deal is when Fedor fights, they want half of the card to be M-1 Global guys, basically. This is why they are unhappy.
Nobody cares about M-1 but Strikeforce might not of paid much attention to the fine print… M-1 is currently in talks with other possible ‘partners’ for showcase Fedor, so we shall see. I personally think they are trying to scare Strikeforce for more $$ and more guys on the undercard.
Head Kick Legend
Twitter @HeadKickLegend
Isn’t this the same sort of thing they tried to do to the UFC during the first negotiations, that half the card with Fedor had to be Red Devil guys or something? Not shitting on the Red Devil team or anything, but besides Fedor and Aleks not many are worth having, certainly not half a card of them. I wonder how much of these extras Fedor asks for would go away if he lost his next fight?
Without pain, without sacrifice, we would have nothing.
by lowellthehammer on Feb 28, 2010 6:02 PM EST up reply actions
Wouldn’t a simple solution be to stack the preliminaries with m-1 fighters. If they needed to they could also record them and let m-1 broadcast those fights on their program. It couldn’t possibly be worse than what Strikeforce currently puts on their prelims. Or is there another problem? Are they asking for too much in purses or are they intent on marketing their fighters to the US market?
My guess would be a combo of both
From my understanding the guys Strikeforce has been mainly using on the prelims have been a lot of local guys(save the Heiron/Riggs and a few others), so best guess is that purses would double or triple from like 4k-5k to like 10k-15k but I maybe wrong.
The other thing is I would guess M-1 at least wants some of their guys getting tv exposure so I would guess they want at least 3-4 on the main card but again I could be wrong.
I haven't read all the comments because I'm lazy
So I don’t know if this point has been made but if SF is going to rely on Walker to get ratings I think that while it may be a short term gain it will be a long term failure. It’s a double edged sword and I think that SF will be selling it’s soul to CBS doing this. Reason being is if it’s anything like the Nagy fight or if Walker gets run over then it will make a mockery of the sport and turn off new fans. On the other hand, maybe there will be some converts because they will get to see Mousasi and King Mo. Also, if Shields/Hendo turns into to a Shields/Mayhem fight it could be even worse for SF.
"I will do nothing lightly. When I walk, I will walk heavily. When I fight, I will fight with conviction. When I speak, I will speak strongly. When I love, I will love with everything"
Shields/Hendo won’t be Shields/Mayhem. Hendo is a freakin elite Light Heavyweight, Shields is a good welterweight
We're just a million little gods causin' rain storms, turning every good thing to rust.
by Anthony Pace on Feb 28, 2010 6:26 PM EST up reply actions
Hendo went to decision 3 out of 4 times in the UFC and Jake Shields is content with humping your leg for 25 minutes… This may not go to a decision but the probability of this becoming a turtle fuck for 5 rounds or most of it is pretty high.
This is atrocious matchmaking as a CBS main event both from a promotional stand point in trying to sell the fight and from a delivery stand point in trying to satisfy the viewers.
by mmalogic on Feb 28, 2010 6:36 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
This was my thinking as well
Like one of the articles previously said. “If Hollywood Henderson shows up this could be a good fight. If Decision Dan shows up it could be atrocious.” I think I got the quote mostly right.
"I will do nothing lightly. When I walk, I will walk heavily. When I fight, I will fight with conviction. When I speak, I will speak strongly. When I love, I will love with everything"
Yeah, that was Hollywood Dan that went to decision 3 out of 4 times in the UFC… you dont want to know what happens if decision dan shows up. This fight is tailor for being a turtle fuck.
I totally agree
100%. And you are right. Hendo was in some real exciting fights in the UFC. Rampage, Bisping, Anderson. Two of those guys are very good and aggressive fighters that push the pace when needed. One of those guys is somewhat exciting and had a terrible game plan that made for an exciting fight.
"I will do nothing lightly. When I walk, I will walk heavily. When I fight, I will fight with conviction. When I speak, I will speak strongly. When I love, I will love with everything"
I liked Hendo/Franklin a lot too. Very evenly matched fight between two top dogs.
Keep firing Assholes!
Blackout is always right
That's the one
I couldn’t remember. Thanks Uber. That was a great fight.
"I will do nothing lightly. When I walk, I will walk heavily. When I fight, I will fight with conviction. When I speak, I will speak strongly. When I love, I will love with everything"
Lets just hope Dan doesnt get staph after fighting shields like Mayhem did
"I hope he tries to stand with me. That'd be great, I'd love it." - Heath Herring UFC 87 pre-fight interview.
by MostDiabolicalHater on Feb 28, 2010 6:49 PM EST up reply actions
That was actually 3 out of 5 times he went to decision.
by ufc4 on Feb 28, 2010 7:12 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
I don’t see Shields being able to get Hendo to the ground, so sooner or later he’s eating his fist.
Amazing thing the UFC brand. If they had a ppv with the rumored card (Shields vs Hendo, Mousasi vs King Mo, Lashley vs Brett Rogers, Antonio Silva vs Arlovski, Walker vs a stiff) they could sell it like gangbusters. For Strikeforce and CBS, this is a dud.
Good point
But the fans would be bitching all over creation about it. It would still sell but nobody would be happy about shelling out 50 bucks for it. Shows you how strong the UFC brand is and how good of a promoter DW is.
"I will do nothing lightly. When I walk, I will walk heavily. When I fight, I will fight with conviction. When I speak, I will speak strongly. When I love, I will love with everything"
In the UFC Mousasi, King Mo, Brett Rogers, Antonio Silva, and Bobby Lashly (unless he got seriously exposed) would be much, much bigger names.
True
You won me over.
"I will do nothing lightly. When I walk, I will walk heavily. When I fight, I will fight with conviction. When I speak, I will speak strongly. When I love, I will love with everything"
Easy
Go easy on the cynical generalizations. In fact you’re talking absolute bollocks.
by Postpubescent on Feb 28, 2010 9:24 PM EST up reply actions
I disagree actually
I see this card alot like 108 where it was a decent card on paper and turned out to be in my eyes a very good card there just wasnt a lot of excitement about it.
If Rogers/Lashley and Silva/Arlovski do happen I get a lot more excited for this card.
Well
I was a very good card but people still complained even afterwards. But I agree with you guys now. You made good points.
"I will do nothing lightly. When I walk, I will walk heavily. When I fight, I will fight with conviction. When I speak, I will speak strongly. When I love, I will love with everything"
You really think the probability of that happening is so high? Hendo went the distance twice in great fights with great fighters—Rampage and Franklin. The only one I can see you criticizing him for is the Palhares decision (I was at this one in ATL, and didn’t think it was that horrible) since Palhares isn’t nearly as established as the other two; he’s still a decent fighter, though. The other recent Hendo fights resulted in vicious KO’s of Wandy and Bisping.
The thing is, Hendo is TWO weight classes above Shields, and is a better fighter at that class than Shields is in his.
We're just a million little gods causin' rain storms, turning every good thing to rust.
by Anthony Pace on Feb 28, 2010 7:01 PM EST up reply actions
Yeah I think it’s high, but I dont think its entirely going to be Dan’s fault. Shields if he doesnt pull out due to “injury” will have as much blame.
I do agree though the small possibility of this not being a 5 round decision will be becuase of the size difference.
Shields is hard to finish to begin with and the fact that he’s not much of a threat means Dan wont be training that hard for it. After 3 rounds Dan wont have much left to finish him with.
That’s inferring quite a bit. Dan isn’t going to take this fight seriously? Ok, entirely unfounded but whatever. Does Shields have a history of pulling out of fights that I don’t know about? I honestly don’t know, and if he does I apologize but that sounds like borderline fighter bashing.
The man known simply as "Christmas Cheesesteak"
It would be inferring if there was no precedent for my assumption. Hendo said himself he doesnt get motivated easily and said he lost the fight to misaki because he really didnt take him seriously. Jake Shields cant hurt Hendo and his wrestling is certainly not better…so:
Is there a good chance Hendo isnt taking him seriously? Yes.
Second it’s very difficult to finish someone when first off they are hard to finsih – which Jake is – and secondly when they are humping your leg. See Kenny florian vs BJ.
The only reason Kenny lasted so long is becuase he never engaged and just clinched the entire fight. What do you think Jake Shields does? That’s his entire game right there.
I dont think Dan will be prepared for a 5 rounder… if he is then he may end the fight once Jake tires – but my money is on Dan coasting in training for this “tune up” fight. When there’s no threat of your opponent hurting you it’s kind of hard to put in the extra 5 minutes.
Now combine all of this with Fedor being off the card and strikeforce’s shaky future and you have to ask how that is affecting Dan.
conversely lets say he’s taking this as the most important fight of his career. Because realistically If he loses this fight to Jake Shields his career will tank.
Do you think he’s gonna take any chances and risk the trip take down? or do you think he’s gonna turtle fuck his way to a “W”?
I actually enjoyed the mayhem fight… I just think this can potentially be worse. Whether due to Dan not wanting to take risks or gassing, He can just hold him for 3 or so rounds – something mayhem couldnt do.
I can agree with the points you have for your case, but I still lean towards the probability of it being a 5-round snoozer as low rather than high. It just feels like Hendo is too much for Shields to last 25 minutes against him
We're just a million little gods causin' rain storms, turning every good thing to rust.
by Anthony Pace on Feb 28, 2010 7:22 PM EST up reply actions
Yeah, Imma agree with hlebtasic, I don’t think Dan will take it lightly either
We're just a million little gods causin' rain storms, turning every good thing to rust.
by Anthony Pace on Feb 28, 2010 7:23 PM EST up reply actions
I can’t believe Dan is going to headline a network card and say “Man, I can just phone this one in”. He’s going to be looking to make an impression, which is bad news for Shields.
As I said before, I can’t see Shields getting Dan down, which means sooner or later they mix it up standing. Dan has proven he can take a serious punch, has Shields?
Isn't he training with the guy he's fighting?
They’ve been hanging out quite a bit of late. I will see if I can find stuff on his twitter feed. OH MAN! Forget about it. My peach pie is done!
"I will do nothing lightly. When I walk, I will walk heavily. When I fight, I will fight with conviction. When I speak, I will speak strongly. When I love, I will love with everything"
Shields can’t offer anything to Hendo that he hasn’t seen before. I think Hendo will land the Right Hand of Doom at some point, knowing he can out-wrestle Shields and probably sufficiently defend against his subs. Look for that right overhand to come more often than Shyla Stylez at a dick convention
We're just a million little gods causin' rain storms, turning every good thing to rust.
by Anthony Pace on Feb 28, 2010 8:28 PM EST up reply actions
When I wrote " I can’t see Shields getting Dan down" I should have clarified that I didn’t mean that Shields has anything for Dan on the ground, but that the fight won’t be a “turtle fuck” since Shields won’t be able to take Dan down.
Oh, I know what you meant, and I agree. I was just saying that even if he can get Hendo to the ground, he won’t be able to show him anything he hasn’t seen before, or defended against
We're just a million little gods causin' rain storms, turning every good thing to rust.
by Anthony Pace on Feb 28, 2010 9:21 PM EST up reply actions
You never know...
but this is what I’m thinking, also. My guess is that Henderson can control where the fight takes place, Shields has nothing to offer standing unless he’s really transformed his game over the last few months. Though not a very technical striker, we all know how effective Hendo is with his heavy hands.
On a side note: Those decisions Dan won and lost in the UFC were all against really formidable competition. Palhares is quite the unique BJJ player. The dude has all kinds of power at middleweight. So, I don’t see any of those decisions as a knock on Hendo’s game.
by Cannon Jacques on Feb 28, 2010 9:29 PM EST up reply actions
neither do I
We're just a million little gods causin' rain storms, turning every good thing to rust.
by Anthony Pace on Feb 28, 2010 9:42 PM EST up reply actions
I can forgive him with the Palhares decision. I mean Palhares is dangerous on the ground but Dan was coming off a two fight losing streak and he was getting paid a high-purse, so losing was not an option
by The Bronzeville Bully on Feb 28, 2010 7:47 PM EST up reply actions
Right, I was there and thought it was kind of entertaining, too. But I come home and everyone watching it on TV thought it blew….
We're just a million little gods causin' rain storms, turning every good thing to rust.
by Anthony Pace on Feb 28, 2010 8:19 PM EST up reply actions
Wasn’t there a lot of talk about Fedor’s deal with Strikeforce being a CBS only deal? If that is the case then isn’t that already a huge sign that Fedor is on his way out? I can’t imagine Strikeforce wants to pay Fedor’s pay for a Showtime card and I can’t imagine them doing back to back CBS cards.
As far as Herschel Walker goes he may be able to pull the eyeballs needed (and do it cheaper than Fedor) but that is going straight down the path everyone was worried about them going with Walker to start with. I don’t think celebrity MMA is a very good long term path for Strikeforce or MMA on network tv but if Walker draws numbers that the sport’s stars don’t then that could be where it heads for CBS.
I dont believe so
because I think there was originally talk of having Fedor/Rogers on Showtime but they decided to do it on CBS instead. I could be wrong though.
This card will be like TUF 10 Finale
Like the Kimbo/Alexander fight the Walker fight which will probably be the 1st or 2nd fight on the card and be the highest rated.
The Hendo/Shields fight and the Mousasi/“Mo” fight are better fights but these fighters are not draws. If you asked random people on the street the only 1 they might know is Hendo and that is from UFC 100 and TUF.
Walker will probably be on the card but stop with all these rumors and assumptions already.
Nobody knows what M-1’s “problems” with the contract are.
From Kid Nate
A note about my methods: Unlike some of the other writers on Bloody Elbow (particularly Luke, Brent, and Rome), I am not an MMA insider. Nor am I a reporter. I am a fan who blogs about the sport based on what I read online and see on TV. I do not cultivate inside sources nor I do not break stories. This, I like to think, leaves me latitude to engage in (un)informed speculation and report on rumors that I read about online without endangering my relationships with “sources” — which is easy since I don’t have any. So as always, please take my speculations with a great deal of salt.
by bigdmmafan on Feb 28, 2010 6:26 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I may not read all the comments
But at least I read the whole article. :)
"I will do nothing lightly. When I walk, I will walk heavily. When I fight, I will fight with conviction. When I speak, I will speak strongly. When I love, I will love with everything"
I’m SO ready for Michael Vick v. Duane “Dog” Chapman at Strikeforce Celebrity MMA
"I hope he tries to stand with me. That'd be great, I'd love it." - Heath Herring UFC 87 pre-fight interview.
by MostDiabolicalHater on Feb 28, 2010 6:32 PM EST up reply actions
They're both small heavyweights after all.
Without pain, without sacrifice, we would have nothing.
by lowellthehammer on Feb 28, 2010 6:36 PM EST up reply actions
Screech by dirty Sanchez.
Keep firing Assholes!
Blackout is always right
by Ubernoober on Feb 28, 2010 6:41 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
That can be
his pirate name. haha
"I will do nothing lightly. When I walk, I will walk heavily. When I fight, I will fight with conviction. When I speak, I will speak strongly. When I love, I will love with everything"
A note about my methods: Unlike some of the other writers on Bloody Elbow (particularly Luke, Brent, and Rome), I am not an MMA insider. Nor am I a reporter. I am a fan who blogs about the sport based on what I read online and see on TV. I do not cultivate inside sources nor I do not break stories. This, I like to think, leaves me latitude to engage in (un)informed speculation and report on rumors that I read about online without endangering my relationships with “sources” — which is easy since I don’t have any. So as always, please take my speculations with a great deal of salt.
My favorite part of the article. At least your are being honest while others take spurious rumors and cast it as fact. Beside, I too love to speculate.
that's what we try to do here
is be upfront and honest about what we’re doing.
For all the nostalgia about old school professional journalism, the myth of objectivity was always bullshit. No one is objective.
That doesn’t mean I’m not all for responsible reporting — checking sources, confirming reports, etc.
It’s just that journalism is not what I do.
Follow me on Twitter @KidNate
by Kid Nate on Feb 28, 2010 7:17 PM EST up reply actions 3 recs
For all the nostalgia about old school professional journalism, the myth of objectivity was always bullshit. No one is objective.
Rec’d a an odd moment of clarity and agreement if that makes any sense at all.
by Cannon Jacques on Feb 28, 2010 9:07 PM EST up reply actions
I should have inserted the word for after Rec’d. Either way, it probably doesn’t make a hell of a lot of sense which is consistent with a lot of my work.
by Cannon Jacques on Feb 28, 2010 9:10 PM EST up reply actions
At least your are being honest while others take spurious rumors and cast it as fact.
Hey man, stop criticizing my old techniques as a former BE staff member. ;)
by Cannon Jacques on Feb 28, 2010 9:04 PM EST up reply actions
Good to know.
Being taken seriously is way overrated in my book.
by Cannon Jacques on Feb 28, 2010 9:22 PM EST up reply actions
I’m getting a little misty-eyed here.
by Cannon Jacques on Feb 28, 2010 9:33 PM EST up reply actions
I may be a prick
but I really do appreciate what you guys do. Except for you, I guess, since you left.
Coincidentally my least favorite part :) Nate, the act of defending yourself invalidates you as an authority. Write with confidence. I don’t know about everyone else, but I can tell when someone is speculating and editorializing as opposed to citing or reporting. I think you’ve been on the defensive since getting reamed for a couple (admittedly poor) UFC articles a month or two back. But hey.. just my stoned perception!
by Postpubescent on Feb 28, 2010 9:27 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I'm just trying to clarify what we're doing for the dummies
I’m plenty confident in what I’m doing or I wouldn’t be doing it.
Follow me on Twitter @KidNate
I really liked that paragraph too. Good stuff, Nate.
"I see him beating Anderson Silva. I see him picking him apart. Him at a 131 years old...(trails off)." - Tito Ortiz on Vitor Belfort at Affliction:DOR
by Rundownloser on Feb 28, 2010 9:28 PM EST up reply actions
off topic
this might be a bit off topic. but does anyone else want to see overeem vs barnett in dream in march? and great post nate
You should never underestimate the predictability of stupidity.
this has got to be the most bizarro headline I've ever read.
talk to me 3 years ago and this(fedor in sf and sf relying on Walker)would make 0 sense.. It just seems crazy to me how things worked out..
Does anybody think
It’s going to be Walker vs Canseco? There’s a picture floating around out there of Canseco eating with Coker.
"I will do nothing lightly. When I walk, I will walk heavily. When I fight, I will fight with conviction. When I speak, I will speak strongly. When I love, I will love with everything"
The pic is down a few stories
"I will do nothing lightly. When I walk, I will walk heavily. When I fight, I will fight with conviction. When I speak, I will speak strongly. When I love, I will love with everything"
I realize I’m coming to this party late, so not many will see my comments, but…
This is my issue when these organizations hang their hats on guys like Hershel. I think it’s a cool idea to get attention to the sport; just like using Kimbo or any other fight that might not be a true title fight or contender fight. But hanging your hat on those types of events as the main event/attraction is a recipe for disaster. (as we’ve seen plenty of times before)
"A champion is someone who gets up when he can't." - Jack Dempsey
I’m not sure I buy Herschel Walker as being a huge draw. I mean I read and heard a lot of people talk about being interested in watching Herschel Walker fight but it’s not like millions of people watched him fight.
Somehow it just reminds me of how a lot of people say they have been watching MMA since UFC 1. If that was true the sport would have been huge a long time ago but that just wasn’t the case. So my point is I don’t care how many people have talked about Herschel Walker fighting the reality is a little over 500,000 people actually watched him do it. That just doesn’t spell guaranteed draw on CBS to me.
Just BE.
500k is a great number on showtime… his showtime metrics tell me he’s def a draw – but he pulls in older guys. The young generation dont know who he is…. the older class know him.
If he’s on the card I dont expect the overall number to go down by that much but I do expect the target demos to take a hit with this card with or without him. The problem is the overall numbers were atrocious the first time out (lost 2 million viewers in that average timeslot and came in last place) so even if the overalls arent affected as much if they cant hold onto the target demo gains they are in trouble.
You have almost changed my mind but....
I just get the feeling Herschel Walker fighting is one of those stories that is interesting to speculate on but not necessarily worth taking the time to watch.
My thinking is that a lot of the places like ESPN talking about Herschel Walker fighting was just for a good media story. Basically it was just interesting to talk about because people know Herschel Walker. I remember watching the episode of PTI when Herschel Walker appeared on it. After talking to Herschel both Kornheiser and Wilbon said they would tune in to watch him fight basically because they were fans of Herschel Walker. Well Monday after the fight rolls around and both guys admit they never bothered to watch. But again they talked about it because it was a good media story.
Maybe all the interest and talk about Herschel should convince me he is a draw and that I’m wrong but I guess I just need to see millions of people actually tune it to watch Herschel Walker fight to believe it.
Just BE.
Herschel is the only thing that matters in any situation
We're just a million little gods causin' rain storms, turning every good thing to rust.
Not sure where the rumours of Fedor trying to renegotiate or hold-out is coming from?? From what I can gather from m1’s press conf. and other sites is he doesnt have enough time to start training for the April card as no opponent was officially locked up, SF’s doing not his. And he apparently also has hurt his hand in the Sambo Competition setting him back some as well.
As for the CBS numbers, pretty sure one of the Execs said they were very happy with the numbers, average of 4.o1 million with an almost 2million increase for the Fedor/Rogers Mainevent, not to shabby imo either. But unfortunely unless they can pull a couple big names out of Japan(which I think Coker is doing/going to announce this week) or decent opponets for Lashley and perhaps Shamrock if he can get readdy, plus Walker, this card wont do as good as the last. Who knows for sure though, do know Hendo/Shields an Mousasi/Lawal should be wicked fights. Also how come no Mayhem on either card??
How do you Know where Im at? If you dont Know where Ive been...Understand where Im coming from??
As for the CBS numbers, pretty sure one of the Execs said they were very happy with the numbers, average of 4.o1 million with an almost 2million increase for the Fedor/Rogers Mainevent, not to shabby imo either.
http://www.mmaweekly.com/absolutenm/templates/dailynews.asp?articleid=7362&zoneid=1
MOST-WATCHED INDIVIDUAL FIGHTS IN U.S. MMA HISTORY
Based on Average Number of Viewers using Minute-by-Minute Ratings
1. EliteXC on CBS (5/31/2008): Kimbo Slice vs. James Thompson—- 7.281 million viewers (Aired from 11:27 PM to 11:40 PM)
2. UFC on Spike TV (10/10/2006): Tito Ortiz vs. Ken Shamrock—- 6.524 million viewers (Aired from 9:42 PM to 9:45 PM)
3. EliteXC on CBS (10/4/08): Seth Petruzelli vs. Kimbo Slice—- 6.451 million viewers (Aired from 11:08 PM to 11:08 PM)
4. EliteXC on CBS (5/31/2008): Robbie Lawler vs. Scott Smith—- 5.867 million viewers (Aired from 10.39 PM to 10:57 PM)
5. UFC on Spike TV (9/8/2007): Quinton Jackson vs. Dan Henderson—- 5.811 million viewers (Aired from 11:29 PM to 12:03 AM)
6. EliteXC on CBS (5/31/2008): Gina Carano vs. Kaitlin Young—- 5.508 million viewers (Aired from 10:09 PM to 10:17 PM)
7. UFC on Spike TV (9/8/2007): Michael Bisping vs. Matt Hamill—- 5.475 million viewers (Aired from 10:41 PM to 11:06 PM)
8. EliteXC on CBS (10/4/08): Jake Shields vs. Paul Daley—- 5.338 million viewers (Aired from 10:34 PM to 10:44 PM)
9. EliteXC on CBS (10/4/08): Gina Carano vs. Kelly Kobold—- 5.171 million viewers (Aired from 9:45 PM to 9:59 PM)
10. EliteXC on CBS (10/4/08): Andrei Arlovski vs. Roy Nelson—- 5.154 million viewers (Aired from 10:12 PM to 10:20 PM)
11. UFC on Spike TV (10/10/2006): Kendall Grove vs. Chris Price—- 5.100 million viewers (Aired from 9:13 PM to 9:17 PM)
12. UFC on Spike TV (9/8/2007): Cheick Kongo vs. Mirko Cro Cop Filipovic—- 5.098 million viewers (Aired from 9:58 PM to 10:24 PM)
13. UFC on Spike TV (9/8/2007): Marcus Davis vs. Paul Taylor—- 5.023 million viewers (Aired from 9:35 PM to 9:39 PM)
14. UFC on Spike TV (7/19/2008): Anderson Silva vs. James Irvin—- 4.795 million viewers (Aired from 11:38 PM to 11:38 PM)
15. EliteXC on CBS (5/31/2008): Joey Villasenor vs. Phil Baroni—- 4.348 million viewers (Aired from 9:47 PM to 9:48 PM)
16. UFC on Spike TV (10/10/2006): Jason MacDonald vs. Ed Herman—- 4.297 millon viewers (Aired from 8:44 PM to 8:47 PM)
17. UFC on Spike TV (9/8/2007): Houston Alexander vs. Alessio Sakara—- 4.204 million viewers (Aired from 9:13 PM to 9:14 PM)
18. UFC on Spike TV (10/10/2006): Matt Hamill vs. Seth Petruzelli—- 4.007 million viewers (Aired from 8:09 PM to 8:28 PM)
19. UFC on Spike TV (7/19/2008): Brandon Vera vs. Reese Andy—- 3.847 million viewers (Aired from 10:58 PM to 11:19 PM)
20. EliteXC on CBS (5/31/2008): Brett Rogers vs. Jon Murphy—- 3.824 million viewers (Aired from 9:26 PM to 9:27 PM) Fedor on CBS did 5.46 million, Kimbo vs Roy Nelson on TUF did 6.1 million.
That puts Fedor on CBS at 7 on the list, not bad until you consider that Kimbo’s fights smoked that number and even Gina Carano’s first fight on CBS had more viewers. Add to that the fact that Fedor and M-1 Global cost a lot more than Kimbo did(heck he may cost more than entire EliteXC on CBS cards did). The Execs may of said they were happy but that doesn’t mean they actually were that impressed by Fedor’s drawing power/price ratio. Out of 4 CBS MMA events Fedor’s ranks as the third most watched, it wasn’t that great of a showing.
oops the quoting on that is all messed up:
MOST-WATCHED INDIVIDUAL FIGHTS IN U.S. MMA HISTORY
Based on Average Number of Viewers using Minute-by-Minute Ratings
1. EliteXC on CBS (5/31/2008): Kimbo Slice vs. James Thompson—- 7.281 million viewers (Aired from 11:27 PM to 11:40 PM)
2. UFC on Spike TV (10/10/2006): Tito Ortiz vs. Ken Shamrock—- 6.524 million viewers (Aired from 9:42 PM to 9:45 PM)
3. EliteXC on CBS (10/4/08): Seth Petruzelli vs. Kimbo Slice—- 6.451 million viewers (Aired from 11:08 PM to 11:08 PM)
4. EliteXC on CBS (5/31/2008): Robbie Lawler vs. Scott Smith—- 5.867 million viewers (Aired from 10.39 PM to 10:57 PM)
5. UFC on Spike TV (9/8/2007): Quinton Jackson vs. Dan Henderson—- 5.811 million viewers (Aired from 11:29 PM to 12:03 AM)
6. EliteXC on CBS (5/31/2008): Gina Carano vs. Kaitlin Young—- 5.508 million viewers (Aired from 10:09 PM to 10:17 PM)
7. UFC on Spike TV (9/8/2007): Michael Bisping vs. Matt Hamill—- 5.475 million viewers (Aired from 10:41 PM to 11:06 PM)
8. EliteXC on CBS (10/4/08): Jake Shields vs. Paul Daley—- 5.338 million viewers (Aired from 10:34 PM to 10:44 PM)
9. EliteXC on CBS (10/4/08): Gina Carano vs. Kelly Kobold—- 5.171 million viewers (Aired from 9:45 PM to 9:59 PM)
10. EliteXC on CBS (10/4/08): Andrei Arlovski vs. Roy Nelson—- 5.154 million viewers (Aired from 10:12 PM to 10:20 PM)
11. UFC on Spike TV (10/10/2006): Kendall Grove vs. Chris Price—- 5.100 million viewers (Aired from 9:13 PM to 9:17 PM)
12. UFC on Spike TV (9/8/2007): Cheick Kongo vs. Mirko Cro Cop Filipovic—- 5.098 million viewers (Aired from 9:58 PM to 10:24 PM)
13. UFC on Spike TV (9/8/2007): Marcus Davis vs. Paul Taylor—- 5.023 million viewers (Aired from 9:35 PM to 9:39 PM)
14. UFC on Spike TV (7/19/2008): Anderson Silva vs. James Irvin—- 4.795 million viewers (Aired from 11:38 PM to 11:38 PM)
15. EliteXC on CBS (5/31/2008): Joey Villasenor vs. Phil Baroni—- 4.348 million viewers (Aired from 9:47 PM to 9:48 PM)
16. UFC on Spike TV (10/10/2006): Jason MacDonald vs. Ed Herman—- 4.297 millon viewers (Aired from 8:44 PM to 8:47 PM)
17. UFC on Spike TV (9/8/2007): Houston Alexander vs. Alessio Sakara—- 4.204 million viewers (Aired from 9:13 PM to 9:14 PM)
18. UFC on Spike TV (10/10/2006): Matt Hamill vs. Seth Petruzelli—- 4.007 million viewers (Aired from 8:09 PM to 8:28 PM)
19. UFC on Spike TV (7/19/2008): Brandon Vera vs. Reese Andy—- 3.847 million viewers (Aired from 10:58 PM to 11:19 PM)
20. EliteXC on CBS (5/31/2008): Brett Rogers vs. Jon Murphy—- 3.824 million viewers (Aired from 9:26 PM to 9:27 PM)
Fedor on CBS did 5.46 million, Kimbo vs Roy Nelson on TUF did 6.1 million.
That puts Fedor on CBS at 7 on the list, not bad until you consider that Kimbo’s fights smoked that number and even Gina Carano’s first fight on CBS had more viewers. Add to that the fact that Fedor and M-1 Global cost a lot more than Kimbo did(heck he may cost more than entire EliteXC on CBS cards did). The Execs may of said they were happy but that doesn’t mean they actually were that impressed by Fedor’s drawing power/price ratio. Out of 4 CBS MMA events Fedor’s ranks as the third most watched, it wasn’t that great of a showing.
It’s pretty sad when the fate of your card relies on Herschel Walker.
by dreamers_12345 on Feb 28, 2010 10:31 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
Great disclaimer Haha!
So much of what is said/reported on MMA websites just doesn’t happen or is speculation by whatever party is reporting the quote, I take it all worth a grain of salt. If someone says something is a fact and they challenged on it and their defense is “I read it on the internet!” most people are going to laugh pretty hard. Like Neal Boortz says about his show,
“Never believe anything you hear/read on this show unless it is consistent with what you already know to be true, or unless you have taken the time to research the matter to prove its accuracy to your satisfaction. This is known as “doing your homework.” – Neal Boortz
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