Greg Jackson camp having a rough few months?
by IpullguardIRL on Feb 22, 2010 11:12 AM EST
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PrintI've noticed that Greg Jackson fighters have been losing more than usual lately. Rashad, Marquardt, Guida, Stevenson, Jardine, among others. Now my question is do you think it's significant?
Alot of fighters have been flocking to Greg Jackson, does the increase in number mean a decrease in eliteness? Does Greg Jackson have less time to focus on each fighter now that he has more? Is it bad luck, or are they starting to drink their own Kool-aid?
What do you think?
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How many of those were because of bad gameplans, which would be something that Jackson would be involved with?
Rashad won his last fight he had a good gameplan but started to gas which put him at risk and made his win a lot less obvious.
Marquardt was unprepared to be put on his back in that sort of fight and Sonnen had a great fight where everything worked well for him. I don’t know if there is much more Marquardt could have done to prepare other than continue to do drill his wrestling.
Guida has always been a terrible striker, he has shown an improvement in that area (as well as Stevenson) but it’s not going to come overnight after working with Jackson for 6 months.
Jardine probably needs to take some time off. IMO he’s the most at risk, he was beating Bader IMO.
I think Stevenson just got outclassed, so its tough to tell either way. They haven’t found a way to protect Jardine’s chin yet.
Nate Marquardt’s gameplanning sucked. To not have trained your wrestling for Chael Sonnen, or at least not have come up with a gameplan to nullify it somehow is really weak.
Rashad Evans had a good gameplan with the takedowns, although I have to say that I thought he showed pretty amateurish head movement in that fight. It was basically just swaying side to side in exagerrated arcs. If he fights Rampage like that, he will get his head knocked off.
Reversion to the mean
No camp can be the number 1 camp forever. Other camps will be developing more intricate gameplans now they know what Jackson was doing with Georges. The days of Team Quest’s and Hammerhouse’s ‘’Go out there and get ’em’’ are dying.
Also, since ‘anything can happen’ in an MMA match, it could be simply that his fighters are getting unlucky, which reflects poorly on the camp.
None of his fighters have looked worse since going there that I can see. Also, more than 1 training camp is needed to change a fighter.
Let’s see how he does with grooming Bones Jones, it is hard to change seasoned professionals overnight.
To go on a constructive criticism tangent; this is a very short fanpost. You could have included some statistics, thoughts or analysis to spice it up a little. Not every thought that pops into your head is worthy of a fanpost, and I would warn you that the mods and commenters of this site take pride in the quality of discussion that goes on here and may not look favorably on fanposts like this.
Personally, I was thinking the same things about Jacksons’ and was considering doing one but now I don’t have to, so I am quite happy you did.
How is that like Goulet? That dude goes out cold in a drafty room - Blackout612
by Well Read Idiot on Feb 22, 2010 11:34 AM EST reply actions 1 recs
HYPERBOLE
No, I think the media and fans just wanted to believe there was this mystical yoda thing happening in the gym that made them better.
People tend to forget the GSP works with 3 trainers, 2 teams . . . Jackson, Firabas and Nurse . . . Team Jackson and Firabas MMA gym in Canada. GSP is simply unique.
Pause. Evans has one loss to a very unique fighter. He stuck to a great gameplan against Thiago Silva.
Jardine has been knocked down 6 times since May 2007.
Marquardt simply got outworked by a better wrestler. He can do better, he just didn’t get into his rhythm. Stevenson, Guida, Guillard have all just joined the gym. I wouldn’t attribute Jon Jones success to Team Jackson, he’s a great study with some amazing abilities.
"There's nothing cool about taking punishment" - Floyd Mayweather Jr.
by VeeisAnimated on Feb 22, 2010 11:39 AM EST reply actions 1 recs
Firas Zahabi is the proprietor of Tri-Star Gym in Montreal.
The mat is my church, the ground is my heaven, Jiu-Jitsu is my religion. And once you hit the ground you're in my world. My world is like the ocean, I’m like a shark and most people don't even know how to swim - Draculino
by Patrick Tenney on Feb 22, 2010 1:29 PM EST up reply actions
my bad, I really hate brutalizing people’s name, so THANKS.
It kind of kills me that people mess with Sotiropoulos name, because my name gets killed often.
"There's nothing cool about taking punishment" - Floyd Mayweather Jr.
by VeeisAnimated on Feb 22, 2010 2:13 PM EST up reply actions
No worries, I had to google it real fast to check my spelling anyhow, just wanted to throw it out there to clear confusion up.
The mat is my church, the ground is my heaven, Jiu-Jitsu is my religion. And once you hit the ground you're in my world. My world is like the ocean, I’m like a shark and most people don't even know how to swim - Draculino
by Patrick Tenney on Feb 22, 2010 3:12 PM EST up reply actions
This
Everybody thinks he’s a genius for GSP and figuring out how to beat Chuck. Not that these accomplishments should be downgraded, but its not like he’s a god. Its easy to think of a great game plan when you have GSP to implement it. And Chuck was at the point where he was ready to be solved. Zahabi has impressed me a lot more recently. Florian’s game plan against Guida was great. People picking the upset expected Clay to take down Kenny at will, but Kenny showed up with better wrestling and a great attack.
The man known simply as "Christmas Cheesesteak"
Right now its Blackhouse’s time. Jose Aldo, Paulo Thiago, Anderson Silva, Machida and Lil Nog, and Junior Dos Santos all either dominate or pose serious threats to their respective weight classes.
If Greg Jackson wants to do well, he needs to think about getting some new fighters… And Rashad might think about training with someone other than Jardine. I still think Shane Carwin might be his best prospect right now(other than GSP of course). He did get tagged pretty hard a couple of times by Gonzaga, but he showed a good chin. We’ll see how he does against Mir. I’ll be feelings pretty bad for Greg if Carwin loses. That would be losses in Lightweight, Middleweight, Light Heavy, and Heavy(forgot that Rolles Gracie was being trained by him too). I like Greg a lot,
Blackhouse isn’t a team, it’s a gym for Soare’s guys to train at when in town. Those guys all have their own camps elsewhere.
by Hardcharger on Feb 22, 2010 12:34 PM EST up reply actions
Yes, but people that train at blackhouse don’t tend to fight each other… Do they? I mean, sure they have their own teams, but blackhouse fighters don’t fight each other.
Anderson for example trains at X-triker Gym in Brazil w/ Master Sylvio Behring. Noguieras train at their own establishments as well as X-triker. Munoz trains at Alliance. Machida trains in Belem at his own Dojo. Aldo trains with Nova Uniao. Paulo Thiago trains with Team Constrictor in Sao Paulo. JDS trains with the Noguieras and hops camps a lot.
The mat is my church, the ground is my heaven, Jiu-Jitsu is my religion. And once you hit the ground you're in my world. My world is like the ocean, I’m like a shark and most people don't even know how to swim - Draculino
by Patrick Tenney on Feb 22, 2010 1:31 PM EST up reply actions
My point was more about Jackson’s team not being as dominant as they once were, not so much about black house…
Yeah, I know. I was just pointing out the locations where the guys train as information, not necessarily as some sort of argument or reply. <3
The mat is my church, the ground is my heaven, Jiu-Jitsu is my religion. And once you hit the ground you're in my world. My world is like the ocean, I’m like a shark and most people don't even know how to swim - Draculino
by Patrick Tenney on Feb 22, 2010 2:12 PM EST up reply actions
i agree nyfeh
i have thought the same thing for the last few months about jackson’s camp as well. i think his camp got more hype than it deserved b/c of their previous win streaks and b/c of gsp who i think is a separate issue which i’ll touch on below.
i try to listen to what jackson says to his fighters b/t rounds, and i’ll be honest, it doesn’t sound all that great in terms of advice. (i admit that i can’t hear it all as well so i know that statement is w/o full backup). he seems more of a calming influence than anything else.
the poing being that i think his fighters haven’t been fairing as well lately and whether that has to do w/ coaching or gameplanning or what i think the real issue is: are the fighters really getting better where the need to be? in my opinion, i don’t think so.
i don’t think jardine has progressed the way he should, notwithstanding his last fight and marquart clearly did not seem to have improved on his weakness, nor has even rashad in my opinon. he beat leites, yes, but if he faces another fighter who can handle his wrestling a bit more, i think the result changes and i personally didn’t think he looked that good against leites. why is it that guida just can’t seem to get a grip on striking at this pt in his career and joe daddy seemed to get rejuvinated more than improving technically.
i dunno, i think jackson has a way to turn around the fighter’s mental states who come to him almost like wounded dogs who need encouragement and a fresh approach. but skillwise, i don’t think they’re learning as much as they could and gsp at least, makes sure he goes where he needs to, to actually improve his skill set. he trains in brazil, in canada, here in the us, he seems to actively seek out people who can help him w/ a specific skill or weakness, it just doesn’t seem the same occurs for the other guys, at least maybe they just don’t have the same successes.
the future will be more telling for sure….but i can see guys leaving there w/ a few more losses.
by theflyingtsunami on Feb 23, 2010 1:06 AM EST up reply actions
Many Jackson fighters have had a rough time lately. But you can point out tough times for guys at ATT as well, and I wouldn’t begin to question that gym.
I think Jackson’s gym is a home training ground for some fighters, and a looser connection for others (like GSP and even Marquardt) who do the vast majority of their training in other states, with other trainers.
Every one has rough times. You cant win them all.. Especially when guys just join ur gym start losing.. Guida shouldn’t count. Joe S outclassed. Jardine is Jardine and Rashad has finally faced a young active striker…
The UFC is a shark tank they will all lose eventually… The point is that the camp is still being talked about, ,meaning it is succesful
Remember that the whole “Yoda” thing is only one part of the fighter’s overall performance… a good part, yes, but not the only one; while Jackson’s skill at mental reinforcement seems apparent, it can only go so far.
Then again, this reminds me of Jackson saying before UFC 108 that there had been a trend of his fighters in 2009 losing their way mentally and getting sucked into brawls or Machida’d.
Other Jackson fighters on the slide:
-Stann just got man-handled by Davis
-Villasenor, one of Jackson’s core fighters, can’t seem to get booked anywhere
-Cerrone lost the WEC title and won his last with numerous fouls that he’s getting a reputation for
-Guillard just barely edged Torres after switching from his usual aggressive striking to the patented Jackson/Winklejohn’s non-committal counterstriking
-Rolles makes his UFC debut only to have one of the most embarrassing performances in the modern history of the organization
-Loiseau makes his UFC comeback only to get shut down by Ed Herman
-Garcia is struggling in the WEC
-Riley just got dismantled by Pearson
It’s too early to say what will come of Schaub and McSweeney Yoshida, Jones, and Carwin have big tests coming up for them in the near future.
All I know is that the Jackson fighters have a long way to go before they're Miletich bad..
ebb and flow. If anything, I think this is a market correction. GSP isn’t going anywhere. Rashad is still top 5, Jardine is what he is. Carwin and Jones are the unlimited potential and future of Jackson’s fight camp. He’s in good shape for years to come.
by ScooterMagruder on Feb 22, 2010 11:43 PM EST up reply actions
Decline . . . yes but it's the norm
A few years ago Camp Miletich dominated UFC. Well the fighters got older, took on some wear and other camps caught onto the fighters game plans and styles. Likely the same thing is going on here, cannot stay on top forever . . . probably never should have been anointed all the accolades to begin with because again camp success seems cyclical and short lived.
The Curse of the Stanky Leg
Walking the line between intelligence and ignorance since 1985
@deowade
by Damon O. on Feb 23, 2010 12:14 AM EST reply actions 2 recs
OH MY GOD.
Best gif ever. Right-click, save-as.
Certain fighters will benefit from a certain camp, and others won’t or have overstayed their welcome. Jardine, if he wants to improve, needs to change camps. Jardine has fought just about every type of fighter on a high level, and really hasn’t improved from fight to fight. One sees Sotiropolous outclassing Stevenson, but Stevenson still fought a great gameplan against Nate Diaz and Spencer Fisher. The fact of the matter is that Sotiropolous is better than Stevenson on the feet and on the ground. I feel that Guillard is good at Jackson’s just from showing some semblance of a gameplan against Torres and fighting smarter. Clay Guida has fundamental problems that seem to be ingrained at this point, so I don’t know if there is a camp out there that can really help him. The fighter that I didn’t get was Marquardt when he fought Sonnen because Marquardt just fought with no strategy. While Sonnen is a superior wrestler, Sonnen’s gameplan was obvious, and it didn’t seem like Marquardt worked on preventing Sonnen’s strengths.
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