Herschel Walker Brings in Big Numbers for Strikeforce
by Michael Rome on Feb 2, 2010 4:40 PM EST
in MMA News
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Ratings are in for Strikeforce: Miami, and they're very good. According to MMA Junkie, "Strikeforce: Miami" drew 517,000 viewers, just below the record set by Gina Carano in August. Carano and Cyborg brought in 576,000 viewers, which remains the all-time record for an MMA show on Showtime:
Compared to Strikeforce's most recent event, "Strikeforce: Evolution" in December, ratings for "Miami" were up sharply. The previous event...drew just 341,000 viewers.
Strikeforce: Miami earned an additional 176,000 viewers for a ratings increase of 51.6%...
A replay of UFC: 107 drew 2.2 million viewers.
This is a strong showing for Strikeforce, but not a surprising one. Given the small viewership numbers on Showtime, it did not take a lot of curious football fans to significantly bump up their numbers. Would those fans tune in again to see Walker? Is it worth doing a single fight like that to get new fans to check out the rest of the show? It's easy to bash Strikeforce for doing this, but they are in the early stages of building a company and a brand. These are the kinds of tactics that companies looking to challenge market leaders often use.
Although the UFC show had more overall viewers, this should not be viewed as a win for the UFC. Far fewer homes have access to Showtime than Spike; it's more complicated than just directly comparing numbers. However, if that 2.2 million number is the average audience for the UFC replay, that is a very big number for a replay and an encouraging sign for the UFC. It looks like both companies did well Saturday night.
These ratings will obviously encourage Strikeforce not only to bring Walker back but to also look further into cross promotion with athletes from other sports. They need to be careful about going too far, because most of those new fans are unlikely to be converted, and they could end up alienating their base in the process of trying to expand their base. It's always a careful balance for growing promotions, and it's up to Scott Coker to find that appropriate balance.
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I'm all for it.
His fight wasn’t the greatest but think of all the people tuning in to see him.
Hopefully they got to see the Lawler/Manhoeff fight right before it. Now that was an exciting fight. That’s the type of fight that will get people hooked…edge of your seat the whole time with an amazing comeback finish.
by HappyLittleTreez on Feb 2, 2010 2:33 PM EST reply actions
agreed
not only that fight but the Cyborg and Diaz fights were great treats as well. I hope they were able to convert more people into the sport of MMA.
Pain is Temporary
Pride is Forever
i think it should be noted though, that the ufc put on more fights that showed off the best of the product and fewer that showed off the worst. culminating in one of the best performances in the history of mma. i don’t think strikeforce had as many. i’m on the fence about cyborg/coenen, having seen cyborg’s fights it was interesting to me how long coenen stayed in it, but to a fan without as much background knowledge I think that would have been viewed as rather pointlessly one-sided.
i think we’re all purposefully glancing over how awful the lashley and walker fights really were. i’d be more interested in a ratings breakdown to see how many lashley/walker fans watched the lawler and diaz fights.
i’m not trying to bash strikeforce. i get what they’re doing and why, but i think it was a very dangerous gambit to try to entice new viewers when your freakshow fights arguably outnumber your real fights.
I still think Pride has outnumbered the UFC in quality fights, but we can make legit positive arguments for both companies. You have to understand that SF is nowhere near the level of the UFC today, they need those fights to showcase the legit roster they do have. If they did not have Walker, let’s say they only rated around 300k or less, having 200k+ views is great no matter how you slice it. If new fans watched the last three fights and were not sold on MMA, I am quite sure those fans are lost anyway, those last three fights were quality fights and would be a legit UFC PPV fights IMO.
SF is still a very small promotion compared to the UFC, they are trying to showcase their product and they need these types of fights to get people interested. When they break the barrier and have a fan following of their own, my guess is that these types of fights will no longer be needed, but until then I have no problem with what they are doing.
Pain is Temporary
Pride is Forever
I still think Pride has outnumbered the UFC in quality fights
I loved Pride, but you are nuts.
The UFC has put on nearly 100 more events nearly 1000 more fights than Pride did. In terms of sheer volume, there UFC dwarfs Pride in terms of meaningful fights. Hell, over the last two-and-a-half years, the UFC is pitching a shutout.
In their heyday, Pride definitely had the superior talent and a more exciting fights, but the UFC’s bookends where Pride put on zero fights (UFC 1-14 and UFC 70-present) more than make up for that.
by Steve4192 on Feb 2, 2010 5:09 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
proportionally is irrelevant.
If we’re going proportionally Affliction was and probably always will be the greatest org in the history of mma.
you think Banned and Day of Reckoning were awesome fights? I don’t…
Pain is Temporary
Pride is Forever
Be fair now...
DOR was a pretty sick card.
"Someone is WRONG on the internet. What do you want me to do? LEAVE? Then they'll keep being wrong!"
-Randall Munroe
by pdl on Feb 2, 2010 6:14 PM EST up reply actions
I'm not trying to bash strikeforce
As I continue to bash strikeforce in every post I make.
" Tell me something Steve, How does a guy from Puerto Rico loose a ball in the Sun? "
This is a developing problem for Strikeforce
their best numbers aren’t when their best fighters are fighting.
Totally, dude!
I mean, it almost did as well as a card featuring Melendez, Mousasi, Cyborg, Carano, Babalu, and Werdum. Clearly their talent doesn’t sell as well as two hype only matches that totally weren’t supported by two title fights…
"Someone is WRONG on the internet. What do you want me to do? LEAVE? Then they'll keep being wrong!"
-Randall Munroe
by pdl on Feb 2, 2010 2:54 PM EST up reply actions
I love Strikeforce's product
but I think they rely on some gimmicks a little too much. the UFC is able to make a star out of a guy like Lyoto Machida because they know how to sell their fighters. Machida isn’t some dynamic personality who demands attention, but they were able to market him properly. They do it over and over.
Strikeforce has amazing talent up and down their roster, I wish they would get the marketing and build-up around guys like Diaz, Mousasi, et al because of them to be succesfull they need to be able to sell the reality that they have the best fighters in the world.
I do respect Herschel Walker though, he’s saying everything right and doing right by the sport.
The UFC hype machine is great because the UFC itself is much hyped, most people who is an MMA fan will buy into their brand because, well, it is the freekin’ UFC. Before TUF, the UFC were doing pretty bad and would buy into these "bad" methods that most people criticize other up-and-coming companies of doing today. I mean, they had Sean Gannon as co-main event for crying out loud. I think there is a double standard here, Zuffa used to do that kind of stuff before TUF, TUF was a huge success and today they no longer have to rely in these types of gimmicks. But I can’t hate other promotions for doing this, if it brings people to watch the sport I’m all for it, if they were as big as the UFC they wouldn’t need to do that, but they’re not.
Pain is Temporary
Pride is Forever
A lot of MMA fans fail to recognize that Strikeforce has just VERY recently got out of being that regional promotion and is now a national product. MMA fans want to compare it to the UFC, but these same people don’t realize that there is a very different business model that Strikeforce has to follow. UFC thrives and builds on PPV, whereas Strikeforce is on Showtime and is more ratings based. Having a guy like Walker helps ratings, and that is the most important thing for Strikeforce and Showtime. The reality of the situation is that Walker and Lashley will get people watching, and hopefully those same people will end of watching the Lawler’s, Diaz’s, Cyborg’s and end up being fans of them.
Forget about the UFC.
Compare them to the IFL, or Bodog, or Bellator.
None of those organizations ever put on a fight as lame as Walker-Nudge. Putting a guy like Walker on the main card of a major event awful. I understand why they did it, but that doesn’t make it any less awful.
I’ve seen more skilled fighters than that on a local ‘MMA Big Show’ card.
But that’s losing touch with the mainstream audience. Strikeforce, and even the UFC, wants to please the mainstream audience and not just us, a niche audience. Even the number one MMA organization in the world (the UFC) signed Kimbo Slice. It’s awful to you, and you are more than entitled to your opinion, but I have to wonder what an MMA layman and not a “hardcore” MMA fan thought of that fight.
Well, Kimbo is a different animal isn't he?
Aside from EliteXC pushing him to main event status too soon, Kimbo trained with Bas Rutten and American Top Team, fought some established MMA names (Thompson, Petruzelli, Alexander) as well as going through the Ultimate Fighter like anyone with a limited pro record and embryonic MMA abilities has done to get into the organization. Kimbo’s done more than enough to warrant his place there.
Herschel Walker got his fight based on name recognition alone, and fought somebody that was probably even less main card worthy than he. Had he fought someone more established I’m sure that this wouldn’t even be an issue; the problem people like myself have is that he was given a prominent fight against someone brought in specifically to lose. Main cards should be made up of competitive fights, not engineered so that the bigger name will win the fight.
See also: Lashley, Bobby
Get rid of the ramp!
IFL and Bodog are gone (and Bodog had the Fedor vs Lindland fight, but that’s besides the point). Bellator is doing really well, I give you that. But if you want to bring more eyes to the sport, eyes that wouldn’t otherwise watch it, than you have to do what SF did. You may not like it as a hardcore fan, but at least you recognized that you understood why they did it.
Pain is Temporary
Pride is Forever
Exactly
If StrikeForce wants to put on Fedor vs Werdum, Hendo vs Shields, and King Mo vs Mousasi, they better make sure enough people are watching so they can actually afford to pay for those matches.
Our work is done here, orcus.
Lets go grab a drink.
haha
I really need one too, I’ve been really busy at work today and it’s time to chill out :p
Pain is Temporary
Pride is Forever
Just make sure you don't go to this bar
We're just a million little gods causin' rain storms, turning every good thing to rust.
i understand you can’t compare them to the ufc, but they still could have put on a better show with the resources they had. putting lashley v. nobody and walker v. nobody on the same card was a very dangerous and bad idea.
it should also be noted that those gimmicks weren’t really working for the ufc either. ufc eventually succeeded by turning fighters into characters, not finding characters and forcing them to beat up nobodies to make them look like fighters.
agreed that those types of fights did not work for the UFC, but you have to understand that it did not work because it was on PPV, people are not going to spend money on something they are not sure they like (as was the case with MMA), but on a cable channel, chances are that curious people will check it out (if they have the channel) to see what is all about. I am sure Walker would not have sold that many PPVs, but since it was free for people who had Showtime, there is a much bigger chance for those subscribers to watch it than buy it.
Pain is Temporary
Pride is Forever
Lashley
Lashley fought a guy with 3 ufc bouts and a stint on their reality show.
Wes Sims has more credentials to fight on TV than Kimbo Slice.
Basically you are a hater dude.
" Tell me something Steve, How does a guy from Puerto Rico loose a ball in the Sun? "
by aaronb on Feb 2, 2010 7:27 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
And no time to train
He didn’t come ready to fight and he can’t be expected to.p
The walker fight was appropriate and interesting to me…the lashley card was useless.
It’s been said before: people like Kimo and Tank Abbot also have UFC fights. And if you want to bring up Kimbo, at least he’s actively training and competing at the moment. Wes Sims did not belong in a fight that night, period.
CONTEXT.
"I'm AJB and I endorse this nut-puncher."
by AJB on Feb 3, 2010 6:31 AM EST up reply actions
You left out the important thing for the UFC.
“and was the top-rated cable program of the day among men 18-34 and men 18-49.”
That is why counter programming is always a win.
by Phildo on Feb 2, 2010 2:36 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
it depends on the CBS fights in April
for me it depends on the fights on cbs in april that will tell the story on if strikeforce can compete with the UFC.
by Skins4ever on Feb 2, 2010 2:40 PM EST reply actions
I always got the impression that Strikeforce just does their own thing. They are competing in that Strikeforce and the UFC are MMA promotions, but I have yet to hear Strikeforce actually call out the UFC like say in professional wrestling where TNA is calling out WWE. The UFC has a built-in brand name where some MMA fans will order a PPV just based on it having the UFC brand tagged to it, but Strikeforce is still building their brand to the MMA fanbase. I don’t know if Strikeforce wants to “compete” moreso than build their brand and get ratings to please CBS/Showtime.
how bout Danny Bonaduce. sorry cant spell that guy last name to save my life
by Skins4ever on Feb 2, 2010 2:45 PM EST up reply actions
I was going to the NFL Pro bowl and
at the security station I look beside me and did a double take… Frank Shamrock. Obv I start gushing and holding up the line and who’s behind me but Scott Coker. Lashley wasn’t far behind them.
No real relevance, but it was very cool.
On topic, I don’t think people would be happy to sit through another three round snooze. If Walker is going to fight it’s got to be against a more compelling opponent.
As to the whole "far more homes have Spike" argument
I would say that, while that is true, people who have to pay for showtime are much more likely to watch it then people who get Spike in their basic cable package are to watch Spike. I guarantee the percentage of showtime subscribers who watch Showtime programming regularly is much, much greater then the number of people who both have and watch Spike. I think this evens the two numbers out a bit more then people recognize.
That's not really fair
because what does Spike have to offer besides UFC? Midget getting electrocuted in a toilet on 1000 Ways to Die? How to get rid of a boner at the beach on Manswers? Blue Mountain State? There’s no reason to watch Spike other than UFC, TUF, and seeing Bloodsport over and over again.
"Someone is WRONG on the internet. What do you want me to do? LEAVE? Then they'll keep being wrong!"
-Randall Munroe
by pdl on Feb 2, 2010 2:58 PM EST up reply actions
I disagree.
Blue Mountain State may suck, but it is original programming that the network invested in and is not available anywhere else. It is no different that some of the crappy original programming on SyFy (particularly their awful movies) or Comedy Central (Outer Space Astronauts, My Secret Girlfriend).
But your paying extra for Showtime
So take in my area where I pay 19.99 a month to get Showtime I am more likely to try and watch it because it’s costing me 20 extra dollars a month where with Spike it doesnt matter if I dont view it all month I’m still paying the same price for basic cable.
Plus the other thing is Showtime is commercial free and that is huge too. Last month we watched Strikeforce live and recorded the WEC just so we could skip the commercials.
You might also just be super wealthy
I’m not sure this is clear…And the highest rated cable stuff of all time are never on premium channels.
I watch HBO but not as much as espn.
Do you enjoy lifetime original movies?
Do you watch the SOAP network? the LOGO network?
I would imagine not. But these things exist, people watch them, and just because they are not to your taste doesn’t mean you can dismiss them out of hand. Saying “Spike sucks, so of course people don’t watch it” is a completely pointless argument. The point I am making is that, as a subscriber service and not part of a basic cable package, Showtime is more likely to get a much bigger chunk of it’s possible base then Spike ever will.
Spike is alive because of the UFC
and vice versa. They needed each other. Spike relied on UFC programming to keep itself going since the rest of its shows were so weak. For those other channels, I don’t get cable. anymore. Decided it wasn’t worth my money. I have friends and bars I can visit to watch fights.
bigd: There are a lot of cable packages that include Showtime and/or HBO already. U-verse… it kinda blows.
Steve: I haven’t watched Comedy Central in months, but I remember them having a solid roster of shows for awhile. Scrubs reruns aren’t a bad thing, and Reno 911 is great original programming. South Park is still a strong part of pop culture. Plus Stephen Colbert and John Stewart have their shows at night. That’s way stronger programming than Spike has ever had.
"Someone is WRONG on the internet. What do you want me to do? LEAVE? Then they'll keep being wrong!"
-Randall Munroe
by pdl on Feb 2, 2010 3:36 PM EST up reply actions
I watch spike all the time for Stuff like CSI reruns stupid videos of people nearly killing themselves etc. Spike is a network dedicated to men who want to see and do stupid man things. I bet in general there are probably triple the amount of people watching spike at any given moment then had watched the strikeforce fights. Showtime is a premium channel that in general sucks and rarely has things to watch. The only reason I have it is because it comes with my package.
How do you know...
Walker brought all those eyeballs? Maybe there are tons of Greg Nagy fans out there that we don’t know about. :-)
I tuned in because I thought Walker was fighting Ted Nugent.
I always get the Nuge and the Nudge confused.
by Steve4192 on Feb 2, 2010 3:05 PM EST up reply actions 3 recs
Good point
When I had Showtime and HBO, I watched the hell out of them, and barely recognized regular cable, LOL.
certified warlord
Yeah I really don’t see how that’s not a win for Spike and the UFC, since Zuffa already made millions off UFC 107 the fact that they got over 2 million for a replay is huge for their cable tv buddies.
It’s also a win for SF but again they’ve had high ratings before, they’re problem is how are they going to make money off these shows to justify their much higher payrolls since they decided to go big time.
Ratings = more stunt matches. Walker TKO by CAN.
Next Strikeforce event at the end of the month will do 300k again.
by snakecharmer1340 on Feb 2, 2010 3:13 PM EST reply actions
I really hope this "special attraction" thing doesn't become a trend.
The last thing in the world I want to see is somebody like Mike Tyson coming out of retirement for a big “special attraction” payday on a Strikeforce card.
why
cuz they want the viewers or they need them? i just dont see why strikeforce wont put all they big events on cbs and just put the challengers on showtime.
by Skins4ever on Feb 2, 2010 3:51 PM EST up reply actions
well then in my opinion thats not enough for strikeforce to succed on cbs, do anybody think espn will hop into the mma broadcasting fray?
by Skins4ever on Feb 2, 2010 4:04 PM EST up reply actions
shit, I would definitely watch Tyson in an MMA fight for sure. Too bad he said he would never do it though, he understands the complexity of it unlike that other boxer that was asking DW to fight in the UFC.
Pain is Temporary
Pride is Forever
what you didnt like the cyborg fight? i mean i thought it was ok, but they need to find better competition for her.
by Skins4ever on Feb 2, 2010 3:52 PM EST up reply actions
yeah it was a great fight, but marloes needs go back to 135, but at 145 cyborg need a women who can really test past the 3rd round to see if you have the gas tank to go all 5 rounds. now i heard people bring up carrano, to fight her again but i dont think she has a chance in hell against cyborg
by Skins4ever on Feb 2, 2010 3:57 PM EST up reply actions
Naw
They’re talking about Erin Toughill being the next opponent. She’s a big, strong woman (who apparently is a husband beater!) and was on American Gladiators with Gina Carano.
Also pretty fly-looking.
Get rid of the ramp!
The domestic abuse charges were BS. All the charges were dropped and IIRC Toehill actually wound up being granted a restraining order against him.
I'm sure they were
I just thought it would make her look like a tougher fight for Cyborg. :)
Get rid of the ramp!
, that was not one sided at all.
lmao. What fight were you watching? I like Marloes more then anybody, but she had nothing for Cyborg. Lasting three rounds doesn’t mean it was competitive a fight. It just means that Coenen can take a beating well. At least Gina actually had a chance to win the fight when she was on mount.
she connected quite a few time, Cyborg has a great chin but that doesn’t mean she did not get hit, it just didn’t phase her. But it was not a one sided beating IMO, if you think it was than good for you :p
Pain is Temporary
Pride is Forever
she connected quite a few time
Really? I mean really? Was that her shining moment during the whole fight? Gina punched Cyborg too, and so did all of Cyborg’s other victims. At no point was Marloes in an position to win the fight. She had zero advantage positions. That’s what I call a one sided match.
unfortunately i agree with you. i think we were so amazed coenen didn’t get steamrolled by cyborg we gave her more credit than she actually earned. she did amazingly better than anyone we’ve seen fight cyborg before, but it never looked like she had a glimmer of a hope of winning.
That ends up happening with dominant fighters. I mean, people praised Sanchez for taking BJ almost the distance… but that just means he got pistol-whipped for 25 minutes instead of the 2 minutes that most people get.
"I'm AJB and I endorse this nut-puncher."
by AJB on Feb 3, 2010 6:34 AM EST up reply actions
showtime brought him in to get viewers thats all, and he is 47
by Skins4ever on Feb 2, 2010 4:13 PM EST up reply actions
Im all for
Walker vs Jason David Frank. At least they both respect the martial arts rather than a guy like Canseco who will do anything for a paycheck at this point.
by xbuckeyex05 on Feb 2, 2010 4:17 PM EST via mobile reply actions
But you will come back to read this reply, or you wouldn’t have posted in the first place.
by Ulf Murphy on Feb 2, 2010 6:24 PM EST up reply actions 3 recs
I wonder what type of numbers Cyborg would have done if it wasn’t paired with the lashley/walker hype combo. It would have been interesting to see how many people who tuned in to see her fight gina would have went back to see her again.
To be honest, I wasn’t impressed with Cyborg in her fight with Gina. It was sloppy and the whole fight looked amateurish. I was not looking forward to her fight Coenen expecting the same results. However, I was surprised to see Cyborg clean up her game. Fight was one sided as hell though but fun to watch, if you like beat downs.
However, I will not be interested in another woman headlining event.
I don’t think it would be smart for a non-gina woman to headline an event, but if this was a regular card without the gimmicks, we could compare it to the last showtime card to get a sense of how many of those gina fans got converted.
Strikeforce and Shine International score worldwide broadcast deals
Strikeforce programming is coming to Europe, Australia and Latin America.
The mixed-martial-arts promotion and Shine International have sold more than 70 hours of programming across six markets in the above regions, Strikeforce today announced.
Strikeforce’s 30 highlights shows (which first aired on NBC) and 56 hours of other fight footage that originally aired on Showtime, as well as live events through February 2012, are part of the deal.
Virgin Media Television’s Bravo in the U.K., Turner in Latin America, FX in Portugal, Ukraine’s Megasport, Seven Network Australia, and Dahlia TV in Italy have all purchased the programming.
Man... are they ever still in the minor leagues
I don’t care how you mitigate, excuse or give concession. Strikeforce did less than 25% on TV with a live event what the UFC did with a repeat event.
Man the UFC . . . are they ever in the minor leagues
UFC 108, with only 300K + buys, did basically only about 60% of what Strikeforce did. I don’t care how you mitigate, excuse or give consession.
(How’s that for an apples to oranges comparison?)
lmao. UFC 108 had only 300k buys and still made more money than Strikeforce with 500k viewers.
(How’s that for an apples to oranges comparison?)
If you are feeling the need to point out how a show with less viewers could actually be considered a greater success than a show with more viewers, than you are merely reiterating his point.
by John Nash on Feb 2, 2010 8:31 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
I think you missed my point
I was being sarcastic by making an “apples to oranges” comparison that he probably wouldn’t like. I was using that as an example because it’s ridiculous and wrong — just as is his example.
PPV buys and viewers are measured completely different.
It’s hard to know what 300k PPV buys translates to in viewers.
by snakecharmer1340 on Feb 2, 2010 8:37 PM EST up reply actions
I was being sarcastic in my above comment. In order to make a meaningful argument about how meaningful the number of viewers is for a Strikeforce event (or for a UFC event for that matter), you need to make a more nuanced argument than SimplePsych was making. I was poking fun at it by making an equally inapposite comparison.
And I wasn't talking about PPV either. Strikeforce and the UFC reply was on TV
You didn’t prove anything, except maybe to yourself.
he’s pointing out that you are comparing apples to oranges.
Ratings for a show on network TV, ratings for a show on basic cable, ratings for a show on premium cable, and PPV buys are 4 completely different types of numbers that can’t be compared directly.
Was strikeforce the major leagues because Fedor/Rogers did a better number than whatever replay the UFC showed that night? did this new thing relegate them back to the minors? You can’t compare the numbers.
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