Will UFC 110 Be the Last Hurrah for Mirko Cro Cop, Wanderlei Silva, Keith Jardine or Stephan Bonnar?
by Kid Nate on Feb 16, 2010 5:01 PM EST
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There's been a good discussion about whether or not the UFC will be forced to put some old stallions out to pasture if they lost at UFC 110. Kelvin Hunt started it out:
At UFC 110, four ... fighters could find themselves on the outside looking in. No longer relevent in a sport that changes and evolves like the wind, and yesterday's hero's turn into shells of their former selves almost overnight. I think UFC 110 will feature four fighters that are past the 'crossroads' in their career so to speak. Now each fight is about earning another opportunity to perform on MMA's biggest stage. Enter Wanderlei Silva, Mirko Cro Cop, Stephan Bonnar, and Keith Jardine.
Zak Woods responded:
Despite the appearance of mediocrity WKR would like to offer the counter argument; that in fact none of these fighters are facing a 'win or find a new job' scenario.
All four of these fighters have powerful name recognition within the MMA world, which makes up for their recent lack of success within the Octagon. If the UFC cuts any of these four fighters Strikeforce would be posed to make a serious short-term gain. This may seem counter intuitive; how does a fighter being fired for not cutting it in one organization help another?
I think Woods makes an excellent point. If the UFC were operating in a vacuum, then certainly Cro Cop and Jardine would be in deep trouble, if not Silva and Bonnar. But with the spector of Strikeforce out there, ready, willing and able to snap up big name fighters, regardless of how shopworn those fighters may be.
However, some of the fighters who were signed in the initial flurry of competitive signings -- I'm looking at you Frank Trigg -- have already washed out of the UFC. We'll see how long Phil Baroni, Paul Buentello and some of the others last.
For my dollar, I expect Wanderlei Silva and Stephan Bonner to stay on with the UFC barring any but the most humiliating defeat. Jardine and Cro Cop are on slightly thinner ice if they lose.
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jardine beat 2 ufc golden boys
i think hes safe still he’s fought the best of the best at 205 and besides thiago silva and wandy he was competetive in all of them
Alexander is one of the hardest hitters in MMA. He was a late replacement who Jardine wasn’t training for. And he just got caught.
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by Brent Brookhouse on Feb 16, 2010 5:46 PM EST up reply actions
If I recall, he was going in for the kill on Alexander whom he’d hurt and just got reckless and was tagged like a mofo
We're just a million little gods causin' rain storms, turning every good thing to rust.
by Anthony Pace on Feb 16, 2010 5:48 PM EST up reply actions
Yeah...
he’d hurt Houston a little bit and then got hurt himself. And in a firefight between two guys going for a finish with the other guy hurt, the one that hits like a motherfuck is probably going to be the one left standing.
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by Brent Brookhouse on Feb 16, 2010 5:51 PM EST up reply actions
how in the hell do you go off saying Houston Alexander is one of te hardest hitters in MMA ….. please mr know it all stop yapping out of your butt.
by ThereWlLLbeBlood on Feb 16, 2010 8:08 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Well…I say that based on the fact that he has explosive power in his hands and in the clinch. Hardest hitter does not mean best.
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by Brent Brookhouse on Feb 16, 2010 8:23 PM EST up reply actions
whats a best hitter??? LOL, he is definitely no where near one of the hardest hitters in MMA ….. hes actually very stiff, dosnt even have a proper wide stance that punchers do and the main thing he has absolutely ZERO snap in his punches and he pushes his punches …… A LOT!
im not saying he dosnt hit hard, but im saying to put him up at the heap of hardest hitters is just plain ridiculous!
by ThereWlLLbeBlood on Feb 16, 2010 8:48 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I really dont understand why you are so jacked up disproving this. Alexander hits hard, its understandable why Brent said he could be one of the hardest hitters in mma, there is really no way to find it out unless we take a punch from all mma fighters that has heavy hands.
I am. I think. I will. - Ayn Rand
Brent said “Alexander is one of the hardest hitters in MMA”
by ThereWlLLbeBlood on Feb 16, 2010 8:57 PM EST up reply actions
and……….
"Just push the ice outside the octagon so Arianny can fall on her head!" - Joe Rogan
by Earl Montclair on Feb 16, 2010 9:06 PM EST up reply actions
Yes, I did. And I’ll stand by that. It’s really okay to disagree. Just don’t be a dick about it. We don’t all have to agree on every single point.
I’ll keep him right there on my list of hardest hitters in MMA, you can have your own list and keep him off it.
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by Brent Brookhouse on Feb 16, 2010 9:10 PM EST up reply actions
cool...
but you didnt state it as your opinion, you said “he is” but whatever man, you must have a pretty shitty list of your “best hitters” LOL!
by ThereWlLLbeBlood on Feb 16, 2010 9:16 PM EST up reply actions
You’re an obnoxious idiot and I’d rather you not stick around.
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by Brent Brookhouse on Feb 16, 2010 9:21 PM EST up reply actions
Brent...that's a warning for namecalling!
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by Brent Brookhouse on Feb 16, 2010 9:21 PM EST up reply actions
oh shit…parallel dimension Brent (probably has no beard) just got warned…
If Derek Jeter clubbed a baby seal on earth day while wearing a mink coat and crocodile skin boots while burning tires on an iceberg, the reaction would be "Its OK Derek, you’re a Yankee." -First mammal to wear pants
Oh good grief give it up.
We all know he hits hard and whether he is one of the top ten punchers or top 100 doesn’t change the actual point that was made at all. So you made a meaningless point about something that doesn’t matter and no one cares about that didn’t change anything or add to the discussion at all. How special of you.
ahh he is one of the hardest hitters and the load of nothing you dropped up top about his stance has to do with technique and nothing to do with just pure brutal power.
Before you say any thing yes it will add power to his strikes but it does not negate the fact the man hits like a ton of bricks now.
i was thinking that
With wins over Chuck and Forrest, he ain’t going nowhere.
We're just a million little gods causin' rain storms, turning every good thing to rust.
by Anthony Pace on Feb 16, 2010 5:06 PM EST up reply actions
You gotta believe that if Cro-Cop gets cut, Strikeforce would sign him and Fedor/Cro-Cop 2 almost immediately.
Cro Cop? Does he want to fight anymore? That's the real question on him.
He has admitted that during UFC 103 he was thinking that he would rather be fishing instead of fighting JDS.
by snakecharmer1340 on Feb 16, 2010 9:25 PM EST up reply actions
I think Cro Cop is the only one in danger of being released. Jardine and Bonnar would just be sent to undercards and prelims for the rest of their careers. Silva isnt going anywhere, he’s still a fan favorite.
Your style's like garbage cans meant to be taken out on a weekly basis
Ever since your first record you've been in a state of suspended animation
You look like Snuffleuffagus and Australopithecus
Me cray, you abacus
Agree 100%
Cro Cop is the only one who should be worried
by Myke25 on Feb 16, 2010 5:27 PM EST up reply actions
I think it behooves them to keep Cro Cop around at least for the European cards. God, I want him to win in devastating fashing SO FUCKING BAD
We're just a million little gods causin' rain storms, turning every good thing to rust.
by Anthony Pace on Feb 16, 2010 5:07 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
yep
but wtf is “fashing”? haha
We're just a million little gods causin' rain storms, turning every good thing to rust.
by Anthony Pace on Feb 16, 2010 5:13 PM EST up reply actions
AWESOME
We're just a million little gods causin' rain storms, turning every good thing to rust.
by Anthony Pace on Feb 16, 2010 5:16 PM EST up reply actions
Silva and Mirko are above legends. I could never wrap my mind around either of them not fighting anymore. What’s next for them, used car salesman?
Pele obvi lights the torch for the Rio Olympic games, but I hope Wandy or a Gracie is somehow involved
We're just a million little gods causin' rain storms, turning every good thing to rust.
by Anthony Pace on Feb 16, 2010 5:21 PM EST up reply actions
Will UFC 110 Be the Last Hurrah for Mirko Cro Cop,Wanderlei Silva,Keith Jardine or Stephan Bonnar?
Fix’d.
'Ello G'vnor!
exactly. its almost silly to think that wanderlei would get ax, esp. since zuffa started airing pride fighting. his dominance is integral to establishing a mma base from pride. with his fan friendly style, he’s not getting cut until he loses to chris leben or kendall grove.
by Austin Martin on Feb 16, 2010 5:21 PM EST up reply actions
But his nickname would still be “Da Spyda”, so he actually still loses.
Your style's like garbage cans meant to be taken out on a weekly basis
Ever since your first record you've been in a state of suspended animation
You look like Snuffleuffagus and Australopithecus
Me cray, you abacus
by ProfessorBLove on Feb 16, 2010 5:41 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
i think this whole argument shows that fans now are so convinced that if a fighter loses a few fights he’s on the tail end of his career. Wand especially is a victim of this, because three of those losses were koes, yes, but they were over the course of three years, mixed in with an iffy decision to franklin. absolutely anybody in the world could get knocked out by hendo, rampage, and crocop, who are actually known for it! So he’s definitely not on the tail end of his career, just in a valley currently. He’s so young that i would only says he’s on a downslide if bisping knocks him out in some incredible manner.
I don’t know what the situation could be with bonnar, and i don’t think the UFC would give up cro cops name. As for jardine, he’s not a world beater but with his look and wins he could be a credible opponent for any up and comer or guy coming off losses (wandy), so i don’t see the ufc releasing him until its clear he can’t win against that level of comp again, which as of this moment its not.
Guys age differently based on their time spent in the ring/cage and what happens to them in it.
Wanderlei is certainly not in his prime anymore, he’s probably toward the end portion (not saying this fight or his next will be his last). I’d love to see the guy be dominant again but I don’t know that is really likely to happen.
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by Brent Brookhouse on Feb 16, 2010 5:49 PM EST up reply actions
I think it’s possible in this sport for the truly great ones to have a resurgence, just because there’s so much latitude that you have to add to and adjust your skillset. Most people thought Couture was done 4 years ago, and hell, he might fight for the LHW title at the end of the year. Granted, most fighters don’t have his work ethic or intelligence, but I think Wandy does. I now I keep harping on it, but if he could renovate his MT like Shogun did, his career could see brand new legs.
We're just a million little gods causin' rain storms, turning every good thing to rust.
by Anthony Pace on Feb 16, 2010 5:57 PM EST up reply actions
Oh I agree that it’s possible. I mean, just a few months ago I was calling the career of my favorite fighter (nogueira) done. So it’s not like Wandy can’t prove me wrong.
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by Brent Brookhouse on Feb 16, 2010 8:25 PM EST up reply actions
If I had to pick one of those four fighters at really being at risk, it would probably be Cro Cop as he’s been the least impressive under the UFC banner IMO. But I agree with Zak Woods, unless they look laughingly bad in defeat, I just don’t think the UFC will want to let Wanderlei, Bonnar, Jardine, or even Cro Cop go off and get picked up by Strikeforce when they still have name value recognition.
the worst part is, that except for bonnar the other three would probably be considered in contention for the title in strikeforce, while we’re talking about whether they’re in the twilight of their careers.
by Austin Martin on Feb 16, 2010 5:22 PM EST up reply actions
If Wanderlei get’s KO’d, I don’t think he gets cut, but he’ll definitely have to take a step back and figure out WTH he’s gonna do with himself.
Same with Cro Cop.
I think Jardine will still be around after he loses, and Bonnar may have one more fight but could be sent out to pasture if he is humiliated again. He’s the most expendable.
Nate, nice to see you offering analysis instead of merely quoting other souces for your articles! Finally got the confidence back after getting flamed for that Dana White rant back in January? He He.
The only one in danger is CC.
However with Fedor still in SF, I don’t know how quick Dana would be to cut him.
You have to be the man... you have to be very, like, alpha male with her. You know? Decide what you do and everything. So, show her who's the boss, you know? - GSP
I think all depends on how they look in their upcoming fights. CroCop is going to have to do something besides eye poke and be a punching bag. Wand, Jardine and Bonnar have all remained competitive.
The only way Wand gets cut(asked to retire) is if Bisping KTFOs him and the internetz will have imploded by that time so it won’t matter.
Bonnar is one of the UFC’s golden geese. I am sure Coker would love to scoop him up in some Gollum-like trance(the PRECIOUS!!!). That means Dana won’t let him go.
Jardine may be the least valuable as far as name recognition and Dana has basically used him to try and push other fighters. So, this could be bad news for Jardine if he drops another fight.
"It would appear that the strain was more than he could bear".- Doc Holliday
Bonnar will be there for life.
The Seattle Times linked to my website in June 2009. I wasn't aware of this until January 2010.
look
i understand bonnar you helped raise the sports pouplartily but what have you done since then. changelled for a shot at the belt and won no.
I dont think Wanderlei is going anywhere, he is a fan favorite and although he is well past his prime I think there are still many people (including me) interested in watching him fight. I also dont think Jardine is going anywhere, he may never be champion, but he has some good wins and name recognition, and he can still be an effective gate keeper to challenge up and comers. Bonnar should be gone if he loses this, if not already, but who knows, he was in one of the most important UFC fights ever so they probably keep him around. Crocop should probably also be gone but with his name recognition they probably dont want him going to another organization.
It's simple math
Would you pay to see a card with some great fighter you’ve never heard of, or a losing fighter that you give a shit about? The only reason not to keep any of these fighters is if they are asking too much per fight, ala Dan Henderson. Whether they win or not isn’t especially important.
I think Cro Cop is, but no one else.
As for Silva, that would be a huge surprise. Yeah, he’s 1-3, but look at is this way. In four fights, he has one KO of the night and two FOTN. He’s an exciting fighter that people love to watch, and he takes any fight, and hasn’t faced any easy opponents. no way dana gives him up just yet.
Jardine- TUF alumni, pretty big name, doubt it.
Bonnar- yeah, they might cut him, but I think they’d give him one more chance. I think his fight at 110 is early competitor for FOTN.
Cro Cop I think stands a reasonable chance of it. Even if Strikeforce signs him, a lot of Americans don’t know who he is (or maybe have only seen his crappy UFC career) and Strikeforce doesn’t own any of his highlight reel, except maybe some k-1 stuff they could get their hands on. He’s got some value. Only other use I could see for him is if he loses, throw him in against Kimbo. That fight would do ridiculous numbers.
Bonnar is Dana’s boy, he isn’t going to get cut anytime soon.
I could see Jardine getting cut though.
"If your going to come on then come on!" - Harold Howard
Agreed
Bonnar’s TUF 1 fight gets him a pass, Wandy is such a fan favorite and still exciting to watch, and Cro Cop’s career lends himself towards European/Far East expansion.
Jardine, even with some key wins over the past few years, should get cut pending a loss.
by LikeTheWhiskey on Feb 16, 2010 5:51 PM EST up reply actions
If Jardine gets KTFO again
he should probably retire. A brain can only take so many of those shots.
I like using semi-colons; they make me feel smart.
I am so tired of Bonnar’s lifetime membership to the UFC. I dont really care for Forrest but at least he has legitimized himself by beating some of the best and becoming a UFC Champion. Stephan Bonnar on the other hand got popped on a dirty test, lost the rematch to Forrest, got leg-humped to a decision by Mark Coleman and made Joe Silva go into orbit by being on the receiving end of a Jon Jones spinning elbow. Not exactly UFC contract worthy in my eyes.
"Just push the ice outside the octagon so Arianny can fall on her head!" - Joe Rogan
by Earl Montclair on Feb 16, 2010 7:45 PM EST up reply actions
If the UFC has eyes on being the only mma player, it’ll keep these guys around. It’s one thing to be a nobody and lose; its another to be a fan favorite. They’ll keep them around fighting just to watch them fight. Releasing them to Strikeforce or w/e is throwing money away and ceding competitive advantages to your opponents.
I keep thinking of Jerome Le Bannar and Peter Aerts here—- they’ve been around forever, the fans love them, and they’ll will never get fired, only retire, even though they are obviously past their prime. Look to see more popular fighters hang around a lot longer than their competitive expiration date.
"an excellent example of why most MMA "journalism" is a joke. Pseudonyms like "toxic" and shitty writing like that dopey article"--- Joe Rogan.
I think Bonnar will get retired and get some sort of cushy job with th UFC.
Keep firing Assholes!
I don't know what I'm talking aboot.
agreed
He and Forrest will be the VP’s of fighter relations.
by MMAFAN FO SHO on Feb 16, 2010 6:30 PM EST up reply actions
Yea I think Bonner’s MMA career may be in jeopardy but he will have a UFC job for life. If it wasn’t for the TUF 1 finale I would expect he would be gone already.
Silva isn’t going anywhere except maybe the UFC HOF, I can see Dana asking him to retire if he keeps getting knocked out but I don’t see them ever cutting him like that. I’d like to see him end up as a coach on TUF in 2011, he may be towards the end of his career but he has a lot to offer the sport still.
Jardine may be on a bit of a losing streak but lets not forget that his fight with Rampage won fight of the night honors too, he’ll probably get another chance regardless of what happens at 110. Sort of sad to see a guy who was getting close to a title shot in 2007 ending up a gatekeeper but he will always be dangerous in the division.
Now Cro Cop could be in trouble if he looks like crap at 110, he’s looked sad in all of his UFC fights and for most of the US casual fans that’s pretty much all they have seen of him. I would imagine that even if he loses they will keep him around to fight cans on European shows but it wouldn’t surprise me if a loss gets him cut.
If for some reason Jardine or Bonnar get cut, then that would be two potential opponents for Mousasi and Lawal in Strikeforce. I would imagine that Strikeforce would want CroCop as well if he got cut by the UFC. I don’t see Wanderlei getting cut by the UFC at all though even if he loses.
Mousasi vs. Bonnar would be a joke of epic proportions. Zuffa isn’t just gonna keep every decent fighter they’ve ever had simply to keep them away from SF. Besides, SF doesn’t have the money to drop 6 figures on guys like Cro Cop who are clearly on the tail end of their careers.
by ufc4 on Feb 16, 2010 7:10 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
It’s not about the quality of the fighter per se, but the name value. Bonnar vs Mousasi, while it is not something that I would personally want to see, is honestly better than most light heavyweight fights that Mousasi can even get at Strikeforce. I’m just thinking that for name value, and how it comes across that Strikeforce/Showtime seems to get fighters for name value even if they have very little of it (like a Kevin randleman), that Strikeforce/Showtime would pick up Bonnar or even Jardine if they get cut. It’s not about what I would want to see, but what I think that organization would do (which is sign ex-UFC fighters with some name value).
Cro Cop would be the perfect fight to introduce US fans to Overeem though.
I dislike Matt Hughes. Shogun beat him like a dirty horse.
I will take Overeem via Drostanolone.
"Just push the ice outside the octagon so Arianny can fall on her head!" - Joe Rogan
by Earl Montclair on Feb 16, 2010 8:15 PM EST up reply actions
Look, all of these guys won’t be released if they put on thrilling fights.
"Once Flamengo, Flamengo until die"
I think Nogueira saved himself, it’s not like Randy rolled over.
"You guys are jerking eachother off with some pseudo deep bullshit." - Kid Nate
by Kaleb Kelchner on Feb 17, 2010 4:30 AM EST up reply actions
This. That was a great, competitive fight, and both guys showed they still had something left. For Couture, it was the second fight in a row where you could argue that he simply wasn’t able to overcome a size and strength disadvantage, hence his drop to 205, but he showed he could still take a shot, that his dirty boxing was still effective, and that he could survive on the ground against a vicious submission artist. But Nog, on the other hand, took some hard shots, both standing and on his back, and answered a lot of questions about his chin; used his striking to set up submissions; was patient on the ground and hit some lovely sweeps; and generally was in complete control of a fighter known for his ability to impose his will even on bigger, stronger opponents.
"I'm AJB and I endorse this nut-puncher."
by AJB on Feb 17, 2010 7:12 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Nog vs Couture
I can’t remember another fight where I was so damn excited before , during and after the war. Two legends on a competitive exciting fight. Can’t get any better than that.
I am. I think. I will. - Ayn Rand
the final answer is
Dana white said forrest griffin and bonnar were like his kids. on a count down show and he owed everything to them bonnar goes no where. Wandy lost a few but they were a few of the most exciting fights I’ve ever seen. Wand has to big of a fan following. Jardine trains with such a dominant camp its only a matter of time till he gets it back I thinl he gets a free pass. Cro cop is done but he won’t go to sf he will retire
by ohiomma on Feb 16, 2010 8:37 PM EST via mobile reply actions
People are pumped for this card.
A lot people held off buying UFC 109 because they didn’t like the card and wanted to save their cash for UFC 110.
by snakecharmer1340 on Feb 16, 2010 9:22 PM EST reply actions
It’s more likely that Rothwell will get his walking papers if he loses to Mirko tbh. Mirko is very well known, insanely popular in Europe and a dead cert to be picked up by Strikeforce if they let him go. If Rothwell loses he would have lost to a rising star who was at 6-0 and an aging Cro-Cop, who was a shadow of his former Pride self.
My two cents
Jardine: Losers again and gets released, sure he’ll go straight to strikeforce but he’s not much of a cash-cow for Dana, and in my opinion at least 50% of the SF LHW roster would destroy him anyway, he’s well below elite level and Dana knows it now.
Bonner: Losers (Again!) and still doesn’t get let go, but fan and media will start question him way to much for Dana and co to ignore, he’ll then lose his last chance fight, retire, and get given some cushy UFC job… Ok, I’ll admit it, I don’t like him, but seriously, he isn’t beating anybody in the current UFC roster, so something is going to have to give.
Silva: Too big of a fan base to be let go, if the UFC are serious about Japan he MUST be on the card, and even if he losers it will be his first UFC fight at Middleweight against pretty high competition, he’ll certainly get a 2nd chance, I still think he’ll fight Sexyama in a Asian UFC, and it will be awesome!
CroCop: Way too much love for me to be subjective, but I’ll try… I think even if he beats Rothwell decisively he’s still only 1 loss away from being dropped. I’d pay to see him for a good few years as yet, just on his past and I love the guy! But this isn’t the case for your average MMA fan, in fact I don’t think he is hardly a draw at all in the USA, which is why I can’t see SF picking him up, how would they promote a guy who would have lost 4 / 5 in the UFC & lost to Fedor already. The only marketable fight I see for him would be a re-match of the no contest with Overeem, but he’s got bigger fish to fry once back in the US. I would like to see him be bought in to say fight Lashley, but that won’t happen.
I think going back to Japan is way more realistic than SF, he’s instantly up at the top for marketing purposes, and frankly the HW’s need bolstering, relevant or not, I’d still enjoy seeing CroCop vs. Barnett again for free. But I don’t see that happening either, I think Mirko has already made his mind up to call it quits as soon as he’s let go of the UFC, unless he goes totally broke or something, I think we will see CroCop’s last fight in 2010, which makes me very, very sad just thinking about it :-(
by TheKeyboardWarrior on Feb 16, 2010 10:13 PM EST reply actions
not to be picky, but 3/5 for Cro Cop
We're just a million little gods causin' rain storms, turning every good thing to rust.
by Anthony Pace on Feb 16, 2010 10:40 PM EST up reply actions
100% agree
as a longtime wandy fan, I just like to watch him fight. even if he is a bit out of his prime, i will always pay to watch his fights. i’m pretty sure a lot of people feel the same (either about wandy or cro). cutting either one of these guys would piss off a huge fanbase.
None of these guys are gonna get cut if they lose. Rothwell might get cut if he looks bad against cro cop.
by IWillPartyHard on Feb 16, 2010 10:58 PM EST reply actions
In a recent video blog, I remember seeing Bonner talking to Dana about setting up some display for a show (It may have been 109). Does anyone think it is possible that Bonnar may be released from the UFC as a fighter, but be brought on for some other promotional/marketing type position?
I think that’s exactly what would happen.
"You guys are jerking eachother off with some pseudo deep bullshit." - Kid Nate
by Kaleb Kelchner on Feb 17, 2010 4:32 AM EST up reply actions
Crocop
Cro Cop band wagon never seems to leave me, I watch every one of his fights hoping the old crocop shows up, praying that he doesnt take another devastating lost. I hope he gets thrown in the old man league if he looses
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