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The Negative Health Effects of Weight Cutting in Mixed Martial Arts

Gleison_tibau_mediumPromoted from the FanPosts by Kid Nate.

So, lately i've been thinking about how omnipresent an issue weight cutting (& the pros/ cons thereof) is in MMA/ Wrestling/ Boxing etc., and I thought i'd do a little research on the topic.  Partly inspired by Matt Pitt over at Sherdog's "Fistic Medicine" column (esp the articles about the science behind a KO, and the one about brain trauma in MMA/ boxing), I think it would be interesting to see what kind of info I could dig up about weight cutting.

You always hear people talking about how weight cutting should be banned from the sport, how it's bad for the athletes & gives an unfair advantage to wrestlers, etc etc ad nauseam.  However, after doing some rudimentary research via Google, here's what I took away: cutting offers a 2- pronged threat to an athlete, physical & mental.  The main physical threat being dehydration & the second (in extreme cases) being the possibility of hypothermic death (either by heart attack or kidney failure).  Psychologically, the toll of an athlete nearly starving their bodies of food & water in the days leading up to the fight dramatically increases the risk of eating disorders, and causes serious hormonal imbalances & mood swings.

The picture on the right shows UFC fighter & behemoth lightweight Gleison Tibau, who allegedly cuts from the neighborhood of 190 pounds.

Star-divide

First, i'll delve into the problems dehydration presents.  Specifically, hypohydration, which refers to "dehydration induced prior to exercise".  According to the US National Library of Medicine's website (Link-  Effects of dehydration on exercise performance), weight cutting negatively effects aerobic endurance & reduces plasma volume:

The effects of hypohydration may vary, depending on whether it is induced through diuretics or sauna exposure, which substantially reduce plasma volume, or prior exercise, which has much less impact on plasma volume. Hypohydration reduces aerobic endurance, but its effects on muscle strength and endurance are not consistent and require further study.

In Layman's terms, weight cutting reduces your body's ability to deliver oxygenated blood through your body because of reduced plasma volume, which negatively effects Cardio/ aerobic endurance.  That's why guys like Guida, Edgar, Faber, & WW Diego Sanchez have seemingly endless gas tanks while maintaining frantic tempos in their fights- because they don't cut much weight.  BJ Penn has excellent cardio @ LW because he walks at around 165 during his training camps; You'll never see Fedor gas, because he works very hard on his cardio & doesn't have to deal with the strains of weight cutting.

The second (and more rare, but severe) health threat is from extreme weight cutting- and that is the possibility of death.  An incident in the late 90's with NCAA wrestlers opened eyes about this (link to article- Cutting Weight):

In 1997, three college wrestlers made national headlines, dying within 33 days of each other. Coming from Michigan, North Carolina, and Wisconsin, these dedicated athletes died from the same cause: weight cutting. In all three cases, the students experienced dehydration resulting in hypothermia after they layered on clothes and did endless workouts in heated rooms. Unfortunately, they out-worked their bodies. The perspiration they produced cooled them to the point of hypothermia resulting in heart attacks and kidney failure, all common effects of extreme weight cutting. 

Basically, the gigantic weight cut attempted by these wrestlers were too much for their bodies to handle, and they died from heart attacks & kidney failure.  Now, some camps in MMA are renowned for their weight cutting abilities (ATT comes to mind, with fighters like JZ, Tibau, Alves, Gouveia @ 185, etc), but how much is too much?  With Tibau allegedly cutting from 190+, he's losing upwards of 30 lbs- which is almost 15% of his body weight, within the period of a month.  That's just not healthy, and even though he has a decent size/ strength advantage, he's still lost to fighters such as Griffin, Nick Diaz, Joe Daddy, & Guillard.  Will there be a death or serious health incident in MMA because of extreme weight cutting?

Finally, the psychological threat of eating disorders due to weight cutting is present.  Fighters, bodybuilders, wrestlers, etc are all known for eating & drinking next to nothing in the days/ week preceding a match, shredding every available ounce of fat & water in order to have a size advantage.  What this does to the brain is bad, though.  It causes hormonal imbalances which cause mood swings, depression, & eating disorders.  In fact, in the "Weight Cutting" article, the writer talks about the positive correlation between cutting & eating disorders:

With 81 percent of wrestlers cutting weight, there are many unique methods to achieve the task... Consequently, they [wrestlers] account for three-quarters of male athletes with eating disorders. Eating disorders claim 300,000 lives a year. 

Do we really want our favorite athletes to suffer through the trauma of having bulimia, anorexia, etc?  Guys like Fedor (who is notoriously a little doughy around the midsection) have said that, simply put, they are fighters & shouldn't have to worry about extreme dieting; by eating healthy & exercising vigorously, Fedor is able to maintain a healthy psyche, and as we all know- it is his composure and mental unflappability that make him one of the greatest fighters of all time.

So that about sums it up.  I know that weight cutting will never truly be an issue that can be solved, but I do think it can be regulated (for example, the NC athletic commission has a rule that says there can't be a 13 lb. differential between the weigh ins and the fight, something which the aforementioned Tibau is preparing for), as the NCAA has been doing as of late:

Following these deaths, the NCAA took steps to make wrestling safer by banning cutting techniques such as training in a room hotter than 80 degrees, self-induced vomiting, and extensive food or fluid restrictions. Following the actions of the NCAA, even high schools have taken precautions. The NCAA requires wrestlers to take hydration tests, checks their body fat, and restricts the amount of weight they can lose.

Thoughts?  Comments?  I'd love some input   =)

The FanPosts are solely the subjective opinions of Bloody Elbow readers and do not necessarily reflect the views of Bloody Elbow editors or staff.

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Just to add to this

Consider Diego Sanchez- he dropped to LW, and met with moderate success, outpointing solid fighters in Guida & Joe Daddy with his improved striking & reach advantage, but when he met Penn, the size advantage he had (which was considerable) didn’t make a difference. Technical superiorities in the boxing & wrestling department led Penn to a lopsided win, and BJ’s tragic pitfall of poor cardio was no longer present; in fact, he looked to be in much better shape than Diego, pacing around in between rounds.

Diego was considered an absolute cardio machine at 170, but he faded later into his fights with Guida, Stevenson, & Penn (all of which were @ LW), likely because of the large cut he had to make. His losses at Welterweight had more to do with technical deficiencies in the boxing & wrestling department (against Kos & Fitch, where he lost close decisions) than size differentials, though.

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by ElliotMatheny on Feb 15, 2010 4:30 PM EST reply actions  

As I recall, Diego’s loss to Koscheck had more to do with being rather sick leading up to (if not during) the fight and that he did get bullied around by Fitch.

"I see him beating Anderson Silva. I see him picking him apart. Him at a 131 years old...(trails off)." - Tito Ortiz on Vitor Belfort at Affliction:DOR

by Rundownloser on Feb 15, 2010 4:51 PM EST up reply actions  

I do remember that

But Kos definitely beat Diego to the punch, had better boxing & just fought the better fight. Having the Flu is legit though, no doubt.

Honestly, moving back up to WW is a good call for Diego.

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by ElliotMatheny on Feb 15, 2010 5:10 PM EST up reply actions  

Not flu, but staph.

I generally don’t like discrediting a fighter’s wins, but staph is crippling, and I think Diego even won most of the scrambles in that fight, the few moments when it hit the ground, though I admit I haven’t watched the fight in a while because of how unenjoyable it was.

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Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try Again. Fail again. Fail better. -Samuel Beckett

by Scott C. Broussard on Feb 15, 2010 7:21 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

Don't forget the depression

He also got misdiagnosed with Hepatitis or herpes and was thinking of quitting fighting altogether leading up to that fight.

by asa on Feb 16, 2010 2:49 AM EST up reply actions  

Diego didn’t have much size on Penn. Sanchez was never a guy who made the drop correctly. He didn’t keep the same size and strength he had at 170 while just cutting more water. He gave up more size, sacrificed strength, and didn’t gain much in return.

by Hardcharger on Feb 16, 2010 9:20 AM EST up reply actions  

I don't know, man

I thought Diego looked quite a bit bigger @ the weigh ins:

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by ElliotMatheny on Feb 16, 2010 1:57 PM EST up reply actions  

Both of these would suck but they could stop extreme weight cutting.

Weigh-ins on the day of the fight or a cap on how much weight can be gained from the time of the weigh-ins until the time of fight.

Walking the line between intelligence and ignorance since 1985
@deowade

by Damon O. on Feb 15, 2010 5:07 PM EST reply actions  

the problem with same day weigh ins is that people are still going to cut somewhat, because it’s hard to weigh an exact amount.

now you take all the problems mentioned above, and add in getting punched in the face with less time to recover from the cut.

by Phildo on Feb 15, 2010 6:04 PM EST up reply actions  

Yea same day weigh ins would be dangerous in their own right, heck that could me more dangerous than the way things are now with weight cutting. Lets face it guys are going to cut as much as they think they can get away with regardless of when the fight is.

by who me on Feb 15, 2010 6:53 PM EST up reply actions  

Yeah but they know they get 24 hours to recoup and rehydrate.

If they didn’t get so much time in between weigh-ins and the fight, They wouldn’t be cutting so much weight.

by J_Maddux on Feb 15, 2010 8:00 PM EST up reply actions  

Same day weigh-ins are mandatory in NCAA wrestling now

Used to be up to a day before, now it’s hours before. In HS, it’s 60 minutes before the scheduled start of competition. And my state, Maryland, has a mandatory body fat percentage check at the beginning of the season (with a hydration test before you’re allowed to get on the scale) and a wrestler can’t lose more than 1.5% of their body weight each week, and can’t go below 7% body fat for their minimum weight class.

Granted, that’s HS, and you’re dealing with kids whose bodies are still changing. But MMA isn’t the first sport to deal with this. What’s been the solution in boxing? As far as I can tell, there is none in boxing.

I’d be a proponent of same day weigh-ins. Guys would still cut 10+ lbs. But the days of 30+ lb cuts might be over, and that’s a good thing.

"The moment you stop thinking you're the best, it's time for you to get out the game." -'King' Mo Lawal

by duck on Feb 15, 2010 8:02 PM EST up reply actions  

wrestling is different because you don’t get punched in the face.

boxing used to be the same day but now it isn’t.

by Phildo on Feb 15, 2010 8:12 PM EST up reply actions  

Wrestling is different in many ways. You ever watch a wrestling match? Maybe because there’s not punching or submissions, it’s ridiculously gruelling. I get tired just watching it. So it may actually be worse.

by TLow on Feb 15, 2010 8:17 PM EST up reply actions  

I’m not saying it’s easy, but people will weigh in dehydrated, no matter when the weigh in is. when you are dehydrated, there is less fluid protecting the brain, which is more of an issue in boxing and mma than it is in wrestling.

by Phildo on Feb 15, 2010 8:19 PM EST up reply actions   2 recs

I agree with some rules but not letting them go below 7% is kinda BS. A buddy from high school(yes he was a wrestler) had his body fat tested in the off season when he wasn’t cutting weight and it was a little below 7%. He was just one of those guys who could eat anything in sight yet still be incredibly thin, unlike my ass where if I eat anything I can feel myself growing fatter.

by attgnp on Feb 16, 2010 8:40 AM EST up reply actions  

I agree, the 7% number is pretty arbitrary

But when writing regulations to cover HS kids weigh from 90 lbs to 300 lbs, you err on the side of caation, I guess. 7% would not necessarily be an appropriate number for professional athletes.

I had one kid at 5.5% body fat after passing hydration, and we had had only 2 days of practice. Kid was just naturally a stick.

"The moment you stop thinking you're the best, it's time for you to get out the game." -'King' Mo Lawal

by duck on Feb 16, 2010 1:38 PM EST up reply actions  

I agree, but . . .

I have always thought that they should have multiple weight ins for a match. Like a month before, a week before, and the day of a fight. A month before you would need to within 10% of the target weight, a week before you would need to be within 5% of the target weight, and the day of on weight. This would lessen the severity of cutting because the larger you are the harder it is to repeatedly drop and rehydrate. Thus, people like Anthony Johnson would have to go up a weight class.

by MrPants on Feb 15, 2010 10:33 PM EST up reply actions  

excellent post

worthy of your avatar!

Follow me on Twitter @KidNate

by Nate Wilcox on Feb 15, 2010 5:18 PM EST reply actions  

gotta say – Matheny’s got the best avatar I’ve ever seen.

"Yes Gina, I am a Wise Cracker"

by lcollins1 on Feb 15, 2010 5:42 PM EST up reply actions  

Agreed

Every time I see it, it puts dirty thoughts in my head lol.

by attgnp on Feb 16, 2010 10:33 AM EST up reply actions  

Thank you my man

I only wish that I can live up to the awesomeness of Kari Sweets

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'09 is the year of the FW's.

by ElliotMatheny on Feb 15, 2010 9:18 PM EST up reply actions  

Brad Blackburn blames his last loss on improper rehydration, and stated that he didn’t use his regular method of rehydrating using IV’s. I’m no doctor, but that seems pretty extreme.

Walking the line between intelligence and ignorance since 1985
@deowade

by Damon O. on Feb 15, 2010 5:47 PM EST reply actions  

Very

I didn’t even hear that.

Blackout612- "Wuts teh UFC?"
Ubernoober- "It like two guy who just stand and swing for fence and try to knock each other shit out it awesome"

by Charles Awad on Feb 15, 2010 6:14 PM EST up reply actions  

It’s not that extreme, athletes do it. It’s a needle and saline. People get them at halftime of football games.

by Phildo on Feb 15, 2010 6:30 PM EST up reply actions  

Not that's it's an extreme procedure

But the fact that cutting so much weight would result in having to IV yourself is a bit extreme.

Blackout612- "Wuts teh UFC?"
Ubernoober- "It like two guy who just stand and swing for fence and try to knock each other shit out it awesome"

by Charles Awad on Feb 15, 2010 7:02 PM EST up reply actions  

not really though, i mean nfl players get dehydrated enough in a half of football that they need ivs, doing a lot of exercise can cause severe dehydration. IV’s is a way to remedy it.

by Phildo on Feb 15, 2010 7:04 PM EST up reply actions  

Eh..

Needing an IV and knowingly doing something that will require its use are world’s apart mang.

Blackout612- "Wuts teh UFC?"
Ubernoober- "It like two guy who just stand and swing for fence and try to knock each other shit out it awesome"

by Charles Awad on Feb 15, 2010 7:09 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

I admit, it sounds off-putting...

but it seems to be almost standard practice in the NFL. Are we as NFL fans going to ask it be stopped? Nope.

"The moment you stop thinking you're the best, it's time for you to get out the game." -'King' Mo Lawal

by duck on Feb 15, 2010 8:06 PM EST up reply actions  

Still not the same

Blackburn is insisting that he normally cuts huge amounts of weight and then IV’s. He expects to. Peterson doesn’t go into a game thinking “I’m going to have to get an IV at halftime!” That’s what I’m saying it unusual. Not actually using an IV.

Blackout612- "Wuts teh UFC?"
Ubernoober- "It like two guy who just stand and swing for fence and try to knock each other shit out it awesome"

by Charles Awad on Feb 15, 2010 9:33 PM EST up reply actions  

The difference is that NFL players become dehydrated as a result of participating in their sport.

"For some reason Dana White doesn't like me, and I don't care enough to find out why. So he can go pound sand up his ass as far as I'm concerned."

Don Frye

by keyboardwarrior on Feb 15, 2010 9:38 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

Yeah

Pretty much. That has everything to do with that pretense. Intentionally draining your body of fluids to the point that you need to replenish them intravenously is a pretty troubling practice.

Blackout612- "Wuts teh UFC?"
Ubernoober- "It like two guy who just stand and swing for fence and try to knock each other shit out it awesome"

by Charles Awad on Feb 15, 2010 9:42 PM EST up reply actions  

Wow

That’s intense. Blackburn’s a big dude, but it’s not surprising that he gassed against Amir.

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by ElliotMatheny on Feb 15, 2010 9:36 PM EST up reply actions  

Front page worthy

Noticing there’s a complete lack of front-paging that isn’t strictly news-linking, which is unfortunate. This is quality stuff and I rec you enthusiastically, good sir.

Blackout612- "Wuts teh UFC?"
Ubernoober- "It like two guy who just stand and swing for fence and try to knock each other shit out it awesome"

by Charles Awad on Feb 15, 2010 5:47 PM EST reply actions  

Yes

This needs to be promoted to the Frontpage.

Walking the line between intelligence and ignorance since 1985
@deowade

by Damon O. on Feb 15, 2010 6:08 PM EST up reply actions  

YAY!!

Thanks Nate.

Blackout612- "Wuts teh UFC?"
Ubernoober- "It like two guy who just stand and swing for fence and try to knock each other shit out it awesome"

by Charles Awad on Feb 15, 2010 6:59 PM EST up reply actions  

Walking the line between intelligence and ignorance since 1985
@deowade

by Damon O. on Feb 15, 2010 7:32 PM EST up reply actions  

Nice article, much better put together than the normal stuff that comes up on this topic(which normally revolve around trying to justify a bunch of extra weight classes). Guys are going to cut, it’s not something that is going to go away but there are guys who really take this to some scary extremes. Particularly the smaller guys who are cutting a greater percentage of their overall weight.

 I wonder if there is any information out there on how much average guys loose normally getting into shape during training camps as opposed to how much they drop in the last week before a fight due to the discussed methods?

by who me on Feb 15, 2010 7:02 PM EST reply actions  

Hey Elliot...

Great write up. Any research on the long term effects of weight cutting?

While a huge weight cut may kill you, can repeated weight cuts (a la mma fighters) eventually take it’s toll?

by xfreekx on Feb 15, 2010 7:05 PM EST reply actions  

Its the kidneys that end up taking the beating, it can result in kidney problems after a lot of rapid weight loss and gain.

by Beren on Feb 15, 2010 7:19 PM EST up reply actions  

Good post. I think they should just weigh the fighters as they’re being checked out before they enter the cage. I think some jiu-jitsu organizations do something like this.

by Carpal on Feb 15, 2010 7:07 PM EST reply actions  

That doesn't solve anything

That would be a major health liability.

Blackout612- "Wuts teh UFC?"
Ubernoober- "It like two guy who just stand and swing for fence and try to knock each other shit out it awesome"

by Charles Awad on Feb 15, 2010 7:10 PM EST up reply actions  

As stated above

Some clown will still cut weight. Also, after I rethought things, this would screw the weight classes up something terrible in the beginning stages.

Walking the line between intelligence and ignorance since 1985
@deowade

by Damon O. on Feb 15, 2010 7:41 PM EST up reply actions  

Yep

Probable death with guys who think they can get away with it/aren’t on weight the day of. There are other measures that can be taken, but I don’t see any of them being proposed until something terrible happens.

Blackout612- "Wuts teh UFC?"
Ubernoober- "It like two guy who just stand and swing for fence and try to knock each other shit out it awesome"

by Charles Awad on Feb 15, 2010 7:50 PM EST up reply actions  

If you REALLY wanted to prevent injury due to dehydration

Same-day weigh-in after a hydration pee test. But even I think that’s too drastic a measure.

"The moment you stop thinking you're the best, it's time for you to get out the game." -'King' Mo Lawal

by duck on Feb 15, 2010 8:08 PM EST up reply actions  

The only think I can think of

Is a series of weigh-ins. Monday, Wednesday, and Friday.

Walking the line between intelligence and ignorance since 1985
@deowade

by Damon O. on Feb 15, 2010 8:15 PM EST up reply actions  

They should also poop into cups while weighing in

And have spinal taps.

Blackout612- "Wuts teh UFC?"
Ubernoober- "It like two guy who just stand and swing for fence and try to knock each other shit out it awesome"

by Charles Awad on Feb 15, 2010 9:31 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

For some reason that reminds me of the scene in Robocop

Where dude said Robocop’s poop tasted like Baby Food.

Walking the line between intelligence and ignorance since 1985
@deowade

by Damon O. on Feb 15, 2010 9:51 PM EST up reply actions  

At the highest levels, genetics makes the biggest difference IMO......

Great article. At the highest levels of competition I just see genetics playing the biggest role in that it sets the upper limit of what is possible for fighters.

For example, KO power, cardio, ability to cut weight is all limited by your talent in each area. You can work hard, but your body is going to set a limit, and that is all you can do. We see this over and over in guys that OBVIOUSLY come out in shape and still gas. We see guys that train for a life time and still seem to have pillow hands, we see guys that cut extreme amounts of weight but guys that have fought at a given weight tons of times miss weight.

At the end of the day, your body will set your limits.

by JimJoe on Feb 15, 2010 8:05 PM EST reply actions   1 recs

not to mention, it screws with your metabolism!!!!!

For a BJJ tournament, I cut from 165 to 149 in two weeks, I was eating nothing but tuna, brocoli and hard boiled eggs, I would get light headed when I got up after lying down and I had the worse mood swings, I couldn’t imagine what a fighter has to go through.

But after the tournament, I couldn’t stop eating junk food, chips, burgers, pizza, it was non- stop for 2 weeks, I eat junk, but only 1 or 2 times a week.

If you look at wrestling coaches or former fighters/boxers, you’ll notice a lot of them have pot bellies or are extremely overweight, I think weight cutting has a lot to do with these guys ending up so overweight later in their years.

by yin hsiung on Feb 15, 2010 8:31 PM EST reply actions   1 recs

I also think

that with former athletes, they get used to being able to eat a certain way because they burn so many calories, and then when they stop playing that sport they blow up because they’re still eating how they did when they were hard training, young athletes.

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by ElliotMatheny on Feb 15, 2010 9:38 PM EST up reply actions  

Elliot is correct

Yin is wrong. Yin’s anecdote about his experience perfectly illustrates the opposite point he was trying to make. The hard weight cut didn’t do anything to his metabolism, it was all his eating of junk food afterwards. The psychological stress of such extreme deprivation broke down his willpower, simple as that. So any fat gain afterwards is due to the two week junk food binge, not some sort of metabolic damage.

by Pantherhare on Feb 15, 2010 10:43 PM EST up reply actions  

BOTH are right.

It’s a combination of both. But when your body is used to having something and all of a sudden you take it away, your body is going to react.

Ever cut a limb off of a tree? Nothing really happens. Cut a bunch of limbs off of a tree and the tree will grow back 10 limbs for every 1 removed.

"I love it when a guy is bleeding on top of me." -- Diego Sanchez, post fight interview about his fight with Clay Guida

by snet tim on Feb 15, 2010 11:09 PM EST up reply actions  

Sounds like you had a protein overload.

The body craves sugars and fats for storage, when you deny your body to have those for a long time, or deny it the ability to store foods, then it wrecks the metabolism, true. But by eating only tuna, broccoli, and eggs, you are missing out on vitamins in other veggies and fruits that help your endocrine system (preventing mood swings). Also, if your body doesn’t have some basic sugars (i.e. sugar, carbs, and starches) that’s going to make you lightheaded. If you need to do a cut again like this, I recommend vitamins, and with breakfast have a piece of toast and/or a glass of juice for basic sugars. That should help the lightheadedness.

But agreed, that this will make folk fatter later by messing with the metabolism like this.

"I love it when a guy is bleeding on top of me." -- Diego Sanchez, post fight interview about his fight with Clay Guida

by snet tim on Feb 15, 2010 10:36 PM EST up reply actions  

How do you wreck a metabolism?

Have you ever heard of a ketogenic diet? Or that little-known diet called Atkins???

by Pantherhare on Feb 15, 2010 10:44 PM EST up reply actions  

Yep. I surely have. Your point?

The process that occurs with that is that by not eating carbs, starches, sugars, fats, etc, is that your body then uses its natural stores. Your body needs sugar, it’s absolutely critical at the most basic level. So your body metabolizes (which is the breaking down (catabolism) and rebuilding (anabolism) of compounds) certain compounds before others: simple sugars (fructose/dextrose), complex sugars (sucrose), carbohydrates, fats, proteins.

By eating mostly proteins and none of the others, your body then tears down its own fat stores. This is how people on the ketogenic and Atkins’ diets lose weight. The first stores to be used are glycogen, then fat tissues, then on to liver/brain, and lastly skeletal muscle (proteins are big complex molecules that take a lot to breakdown, thus are last). When a person ceases this method of eating, the body then rapidly replenishes its stores, and will store more now than it had before.

"I love it when a guy is bleeding on top of me." -- Diego Sanchez, post fight interview about his fight with Clay Guida

by snet tim on Feb 15, 2010 11:03 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

low carb for 2 weeks=bad idea

There is also lag when adapting to a different metabolic pathways. If your primary source of glycogen is through simple sugars, potatoes, pasta, and now your primary source is brocoli, there is going to be a deficit that will impair performance. At two weeks into the paleo diet, I felt drained, but after you get through that I started to feel better than before. I didn’t do it for weight loss, but trying to increase performance.
Not a fan of Atkins though.

by NinjaNate on Feb 16, 2010 2:09 AM EST up reply actions  

Some errors in this post...

like the brain coming before the muscles, but it appears that you and I probably don’t disagree on the following: After a hard diet, the body undergoes a host of adaptations that predisposes it towards fat gain — increased hunger, decreased metabolic rate, increased fat storage, decreased fat oxidation and others.

But this state of affairs is temporary and if you eat at maintenance for two weeks or so, you should be okay. It’s when you go on a junk food binge immediately afterwards that you put on some blubber.

by Pantherhare on Feb 16, 2010 3:21 AM EST up reply actions  

I don’t know what anatomy-physiology courses you’ve taken, but the brain (not in entirety) begins to be consumed for energy production before skeletal muscle.

Anytime you go on a junk food binge then yea, your body is going to put on some blubber (of course there are some folk who eat 1 lb of pasta in a sitting and keep losing weight regardless).

At least there are some terms of agreement.

"I love it when a guy is bleeding on top of me." -- Diego Sanchez, post fight interview about his fight with Clay Guida

by snet tim on Feb 16, 2010 2:53 PM EST up reply actions  

Specifically, the frontal lobe – the “higher-function” region – is used first. During starvation, the body consumes itself from least-important viscera (fat, etc) to the most. Language & reasoning skills aren’t necessary for basic survival, so those parts are used. Muscle is needed for capturing prey, so it gets higher priority to stick around.

New Orleans Saints - 2010 Super Bowl Champions. Unbelievable. Who Dat.
Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try Again. Fail again. Fail better. -Samuel Beckett

by Scott C. Broussard on Feb 16, 2010 5:08 PM EST up reply actions  

Exactly.

Sadly this doesn’t bode well for nerds/geeks survival rates…. or makes you less of a target for zombie attacks?

"I love it when a guy is bleeding on top of me." -- Diego Sanchez, post fight interview about his fight with Clay Guida

by snet tim on Feb 16, 2010 6:25 PM EST up reply actions  

Apparently there are many studies on this subject.

Some claim that in long periods of starvation, muscles are the one of the first tissues to be consumed (to some extent of course) and fat the latest (as the most important).

The whole precess is explained more or less like this:

There are hard times (limited food resources) and you don’t know when it’ll get better. Your body recognizes low calories intake as trouble and in order to protect it self from starvation it reserves energy in form of fat (1g of fat has 9 kcal). Since the the poverty has no time limits and fat cells have big energetic value, your body leaves those cells to be consumed as late as possible. Muscles also store some energy (in form of glycogen and proteins [1g of protein=4 kcal]), but they also use use energy, so from survival stand point it’s better to reduce muscle tissue (again, to some extent) to produce energy and at the same time limit energy consumption, than just use energy from fat. In long term it’s more beneficial to have more fat(energy) and less muscles(cells that use energy) than the other way around. [I’m not talking about diets].

This “survival situation” is a bit analogical to long distance running. I was once in a running competition (for the first time and on short notice) and I completely didn’t know how to arrange my efforts to do it right. I thought I’m tough guy, so I’ve started very hard, outrunning everybody, but in 1/2 of the distance I gassed so bad, that I was barely walking. It was pretty embarrassing. It would be smarter if I would save energy for the second half of the distance.

It’s of course great simplification, because body chemistry is complicated there are many variables (body type, climate, etc.) that have influence on how bodies react.

by dancingChicken on Feb 17, 2010 8:22 AM EST up reply actions  

It's all about HOW you cut the weight.

The way you SHOULD cut weight is to eat only the right foods, mostly complex carbohydrates, like fruits, for a very long period of time, usually one to two months. You should only have to starve yourself a day or two before the weigh-in; anything more is ridiculous. That should minimally affect your physical and mental state.

The problem I usually face is the strength issue. I rarely feel that my cardio is weak (with the exception of the few days before the weigh-in when I eat nothing), but my strength feels lacking when I cut. Based on my experience, smaller guys who build a lot of muscle can overpower bigger guys who cut a lot of weight. But again, that’s just me.

by bcpjkell on Feb 15, 2010 8:49 PM EST reply actions  

This issue is exactly why I think Cain Velazquez will has the best chance at beating Brock Lesnar. Velazquez is a very strong guy, and he can go into a fight at his optimal weight without the mental strain of a weight cut.

by MMAEruption on Feb 15, 2010 9:31 PM EST reply actions  

How many HW’s in the UFC actually cut weight?

Yeah, Velazquez may be strong, but he’s not Carwin strong.

by David_ on Feb 15, 2010 11:46 PM EST up reply actions  

How much does Brock cut?

15 lbs. 20? Anything less than 20, and he’s cutting less than 10% of his body weight. Hell of a lot easier to cut 20 when you weigh 285 than it is to cut 20 when you weigh 175.

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by duck on Feb 16, 2010 7:27 AM EST up reply actions  

Exactly

Brock just needs to take a dump and he is halfway there.

Maybe an hour in the sauna. Really really easy cut for him.

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by Well Read Idiot on Feb 16, 2010 8:25 AM EST up reply actions  

Here's the problem with same day weigh-ins...

Some fighters would just do the same things they’re already doing now, only this time they wouldn’t have as much time to rehydrate and recoup.

You’d have dehydrated athletes, a shell of their former selves, engaging in combat sports. Not only would the safety of the fighters be a concern, but from the viewpoint of the fight promoter and the fans, you’d get less exciting fights. Fighters would be less explosive, and gassing earlier because they’d be spent from the cut. Nobody wants that – not the fighters, not the promoters, and not the fans.

Rules limiting the maximum fight-time/weigh-in weight differential would lessen this effect, but it’d still be present. And fight-time weigh ins would only exacerbate it.

by Meeaaat on Feb 15, 2010 11:42 PM EST reply actions  

I think that fighters that would do that would only cut an acceptable amount of weight , say up to 10 pounds . More than that would be impossible – to cut and fight the same day?? No way.
It would lead fighters to fight at their real weight , e.g GSP would become a middleweight , Anderson Silva a LHW etc…

by JoelMan on Feb 16, 2010 5:29 AM EST up reply actions  

anderson used to fight at 170, now he fights at 185 and occasionally 205. i don’t understand who decided his natural weight class is 205.

i think people put too much stock into what a fighters’ purported “natural weight” is supposed to be. yeah, you get some behemoths who are managing to squeeze 20 pounds of water out of themselves the day before a fight (or not managing), but i bet most fighters are within are closer to weight than you think when they start their cut.

anderson may walk around near 205 pounds, but he’s not in his most comfortable fighting shape. i’d be interested to find out for real how much he weighs before he starts his cut. if we could get real numbers instead of rumors i’m willing to bet you’d be surprised.

by K Krush on Feb 16, 2010 7:41 AM EST up reply actions  

It was no rumors he talked about his walk around weight a couple of times , before the Griffin fight and when he was asked about a potential match with Fedor . His walk around weight was around 220 I think.

by JoelMan on Feb 16, 2010 9:51 AM EST up reply actions  

what does walk around weight mean?

We’ve seen Matt Serra walk around over 200 pounds, that doesn’t change the fact that he’s a natural LW.

by Phildo on Feb 16, 2010 9:55 AM EST up reply actions  

Well I have never seen Matt Serra so I wouldn’t know …:)
And Matt is easily a welter weight as he is a LW , he’s small but stocky . I bet he still cuts weight to reach 155 . Just because he got his ass kicked by GSP doesn’t mean he’s a natural LW . Same goes for BJ and Sean Sherk :)

by JoelMan on Feb 16, 2010 10:24 AM EST up reply actions  

No, the fact that he fought at 155 for his entire career before moving to WW when the UFC stopped having a LW division makes him a natural LW.

by Phildo on Feb 16, 2010 10:31 AM EST up reply actions  

No way is Serra a LW

The only LW fight i’ve ever seen him in (against Kelly Dulanty I think), he was uncomfortably thin looking, and didn’t even make 155 (I think he was around 162ish).

He may be a short dude @ 5’6, but like he says- he’s like Gimli from LotR. The dude has a 6-pack at Welter, and he’s built like a brick shit- house. No reason for him to be @ LW

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by ElliotMatheny on Feb 16, 2010 2:04 PM EST up reply actions  

From the BJ fight

He was at LW until it didn’t exist any more, now he has bulked up to what he is now. He wouldn’t be able to cut to LW right now, but if he went back to the way he was pre moving up to WW, he could be a Lightweight, it just proves the nonsense of the “walking around weight” statement. It could mean anything, serra deciding he likes being a pastaweight doesn’t change what he was, or how tall he is.

by Phildo on Feb 16, 2010 3:00 PM EST up reply actions  

That can't be the BJ fight

He has “The Ultimate Fighter” shorts on, and season 4 didn’t air until ’06.

He might’ve made LW in the past, but there’s no way he’s making it again. He’s solid, and more important- comfortable at Welter. The whole “Natural WW” comment doesn’t hold true for Serra; even when he was fighting at 155, he had quite a bit of trouble making the weight.

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by ElliotMatheny on Feb 16, 2010 5:21 PM EST up reply actions  

I went back one picture too many, but hte poitn still stands.

The whole “natural weight class” and “walking around weight” is meaningless to talk about because it means different things to different people.

by Phildo on Feb 16, 2010 6:51 PM EST up reply actions  

Valid point

but I disagree. I think that “Natural weight class” refers to what weight class a fighter seems more accustomed to, based on what they walk around at. Most people would say that guys like Thiago Alves & Rumble Johnson are natural MW’s, because they have to deal with such extreme cuts (purportedly weighing 200+ lbs at the start of training camp, which is where most MW’s walk around at).

I think that as soon as a fighter is either too big for a weight class (IE missing weight more than once, getting busted for diuretics, having to rehydrate using an IV, gassing; fighters like Alves, AJ, Blackburn, Overeem @ 205, etc), or is too small (not having to cut at all- and maybe being a bit soft; i.e. BJ at 170, Hansen at LW, Karo), then it means they’re probably outside of their optimal (natural) weight class.

For all intents and purposes, I think there are 3 different terms fight fans use for a fighter’s weight:

1) Walking weight: This is how much a fighter weighs outside of training camp; some fighters blow up a bit more than others, some guys stay at about the same weight. Page & Forrest have been known to balloon to upwards of 240. Anthony Johnson was rumored to be at 220. On the other hand, guys like Urijah don’t fluctuate much at all- Faber said he never weighs more than 155-160ish; IMO, this is the healthiest thing for a fighter.

2) Weight class: how much the fighter weighs at the weigh- ins. Whether they’re on weight, under or over the limit, this is the weight that registers on the scale the night before the fight.

and finally
3) Fight night weight: What the fighter weighs when they step into the ring/ cage. Some guys put on 10%+ of their body weight back on, some guys weigh almost the same as what they did at the weigh- ins. This basically determines how much weight the fighter put back on by eating & drinking in the 24 hour period between the weigh- ins and the fight.

At least, I think this is the consensus. Correct me if i’m wrong, but this is the lingo as I understand it.

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by ElliotMatheny on Feb 16, 2010 7:42 PM EST up reply actions  

That seems to be the way we use the terms but when it comes to walking around weight or natural weight class we really don’t have a clue if that’s what the fighter means or not because it’s never actually been defined in any official way. Consensus of what we think it means doesn’t count for much if it’s not what the fighters and managers (or any of the other sources) are talking about when they say it.

It would be great if we could get weights on guys before training camp, after training camp, day of weigh in and day of fight. Those would be some numbers that could really tell us something but all we have is what guys weigh in at and some rumors and off hand statements about “walking around weight” or “normal weight” that we don’t have a firm definition of.

by who me on Feb 16, 2010 9:07 PM EST up reply actions  

and ask any fighter if they’d like to fight at their “walk around” fitness level.

by K Krush on Feb 16, 2010 10:34 AM EST up reply actions  

“walking around weight” can mean months after any fights and months before any fights. if i spend my winnings on pizzas and balloon up to 230 does that magically change my body and the weight i fight best at? do you really think anderson is cutting 35 pounds the day before a fight?

“walking around weight” might as well be called their “fat weight”. it has virtually nothing to do with what they’ll actually weigh a week or two before a fight.

by K Krush on Feb 16, 2010 10:45 AM EST up reply actions  

Not all fighters are slobs like Tim Sylvia who let their bodies deteriorate after fights (he came in 310 lbs to the Mercer fight , and got tooled) . Most athletes try to keep a ‘normal’ diet even when they’re not in camps . Can you imagine GSP starting a fight camp coming at 250 lbs after eating only pizza and chocolate for two months ? Not really.

by JoelMan on Feb 17, 2010 5:24 AM EST up reply actions  

I think that fighters that would do that would only cut an acceptable amount of weight , say up to 10 pounds . More than that would be impossible – to cut and fight the same day?? No way.

Nobody’s saying they’d need to cut all of that on the weigh-in day. Fighters who wanted to take their chances would do the exact same things they’re doing now, but would target the fight time weigh-in as opposed to the previous day weigh-in. They’d cut over the week leading up to the fight, only this time they wouldn’t have as much of a chance to recover.

It would lead fighters to fight at their real weight , e.g GSP would become a middleweight , Anderson Silva a LHW etc…

For some, maybe. But some fighters would still go for the cut hoping it’d be worth it, and that it’d give them an advantage.

by Meeaaat on Feb 16, 2010 8:48 AM EST up reply actions  

The weigh in serves as a mean of promotion so it needs to go on as it is done now. But then the fighters should be weighed again say within an hour or less of there fight and have to be within 2-3 pounds of the weigh in weight. I hate how there is weight cutting, fighters should be winning fights based on skill as much as possible, who is better at handling the cut should not be a factor.

by Kefka on Feb 16, 2010 12:35 AM EST reply actions  

it would definitly ruin it for the US based fighters. The weight cut technology seems to be better in the US. So when they change that, fights might be more “fair”

by MrDloo on Feb 16, 2010 7:24 AM EST up reply actions  

weight cut technology?

that’s like saying the jiu jitsu technology is better in brazil.

by Phildo on Feb 16, 2010 9:20 AM EST up reply actions  

Actually, depending on how someone uses the word, it’s technically accurate. “Technology” can refer to any refined set of procedures designed to produce a particular result. Many thinkers have sub-divided the term to try and improve accuracy, doing things like separating out “technique” – the actual process – from “technology” – the generation and context of the technique. And that’s just one way of using the word.

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by AJB on Feb 16, 2010 10:36 AM EST up reply actions  

I’m a big fan of what is going on in North Carolina (I think) where there is a maximum allowable weight gain after the weigh ins, 13 pounds I think.

by exsanguinator on Feb 16, 2010 1:22 AM EST reply actions  

Agreed

Def a step in the right direction IMO.

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by ElliotMatheny on Feb 16, 2010 1:24 AM EST up reply actions  

The extemes that some of these guys go through makes me think that we will see a death from weight cutting, just as soon as we might see one from the fight in the cage. I think the commissions should set a minimum weight that a fighter can fight at based on body fat percentage, this should be part of the licensing process. We would most likely just see alot of guys move up one weight class, while a few wouldn’t be affected at all.

by dpk875 on Feb 16, 2010 10:28 AM EST reply actions  

Hey Elliot!!

Haven’t logged into the site in a looooong time. But I wanted to commend you on a well-written piece that has always mattered to me. I worry about long-term effects of the athletes that we care so much about. We all want to see these guys/girls @ their best. But not @ the expense of them having major medical problems later in life.

For the people saying day-in weight cuts are more dangerous…..it’s just a matter of limiting the PERCENTAGE of allowable weight cut/gain (you can’t use pounds, you fools). There would be multiple rule changes to balance things out. But I would prefer it so guys don’t step into the cage @ drastically different weights.

by frickshun on Feb 16, 2010 12:24 PM EST reply actions  

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