Quality of Competition at the Core of Debate Over Bobby Lashley's Next Fight
by Leland Roling on Feb 15, 2010 3:20 PM EST
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The sport of mixed martial arts, like many other professional sports, has a general concept of how novice fighters should move through the ranks, gain experience, and take on increasingly better competition on their way to bigger fights and promotions. A fighter's appeal and entertainment value also come into play as well as their physical attributes and background, but we generally see fighters battle it out in smaller regional promotions against lesser competition in the start of their careers.
Former WWE wrestler turned professional mixed martial artist Bobby Lashley has had somewhat of an accelerated path to the big leagues. His physical size and strength, his background as a two-time NAIA wrestler in college, and his crossover appeal have vaulted him into a position to battle some of the bigger names in MMA's heavyweight division.
While his last fight was heavily criticized as a "squash" match to allow Lashley to gain exposure as a top up-and-coming athlete in Strikeforce, Lashley is now setting his sights higher... much higher if fans want him to fight better competition. He made his stance known during last week's edition of Inside MMA on HDNet in which MMAJunkie.com's poll question revealed that 52% of those polled wanted Lashley to face Brett Rogers next (quotes from Michael David Smith at MMAFighting.com):
"I don't understand this," Lashley said. "Brett Rogers isn't the champ. You've got Fedor [Emelianenko] who is considered the best pound-for-pound fighter and you've got [Alistair] Overeem who's the champ. If they want me to go up to that level let's go all the way up to that level and fight the champ."
In other words, Lashley recognizes that Rogers is a step up in the quality of opposition, and in Lashley's view, it's the wrong-sized step. He either wants to take a baby step or a giant leap, and nothing in between. Lashley knows that Fedor is fighting Fabricio Werdum next, so he'd like to fight for the Strikeforce heavyweight title.
"I want Overeem," Lashley said. "Either let me fight the way I want to -- build up, get a few fights under my belt, work my way up -- or let me fight the champ. If it's fighting the champ I'll fight the champ."
The interesting questions revolve around why Lashley's fans suddenly want hi to springboard his career into an area in which he's likely not experienced enough to handle. Fedor Emelianenko is the top of the mountain for any heavyweight in the world, yet Lashley wants to take the leap despite his best win coming against Bob Sapp, Jason Guida, or Wes Sims.
I think the simplest answer is that Lashley is looking for a significant pay increase if he has to take on top competition, and battling one of those two is a big increase. Ideally, Lashley doesn't want to have to do that right now. We've heard the stories about Lashley continuing to professional wrestle with TNA while also training for MMA, but he's recently been released from the wrestling promotion. He's stated that he's now focusing solely on MMA, but I have my doubts as to whether that will continue.
Showtime and Strikeforce likely have different plans as well. It's evident that Lashley is a guy that Strikeforce wants fans to focus on in the future, and they want to gain some viewers due to his crossover appeal -- but does Strikeforce want to push him into a bout he isn't ready for and risk hurting some of the promotional value he already has? Or put an end to any promotional value he's gaining?
There's a reason why Brett Rogers is the favorite among voters, and it's a bit confusing as to why Lashley is against a fight with Rogers. Rogers was a contender to the crown who was surprisingly effective against Fedor, and a dominating win over Rogers could add more fuel to his own argument.
Rogers' exposure on CBS could also bring Lashley a bit more money to take this fight, but Rogers is also one-dimensional enough to give Lashley an obvious means to an end to the fight. It isn't a perceived squash match for either competitor, a nice change of pace when we talk about anyone fighting Lashley.
Personally, Rogers vs. Lashley is a decent step up in competition, but I do think it's a significant increase for Lashley. There are probably some better options, but Rogers is by no means a bad stone to step on if Lashley wins. Lashley's suggestion to allow him to work his way up is a much more friendly plan for both himself and Strikeforce, and I'm going to bank on the promotion doing exactly that.
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I think it’s pretty obvious – if he wants a loss, he doesn’t want one that’ll damage his career. If he loses to a top fighter, them it’s written off as, “Oh, he was fighting them way too early”. If he loses to a gatekeeper, then it’s, “maybe he’s not ready for the big-time.” Yes, this does come down to pay in a sense – too many losses to average competition and he’s lost his cash flow, but I wouldn’t be surprised if he is protecting his record.
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by Scott C. Broussard on Feb 15, 2010 1:40 PM EST reply actions
I don’t even think it’s the damaging loss. The money for a fight with Fedor/Overeem is exponentially greater than a fight with Rogers. His whole “either let me take my time or let me fight for the title” is such a bad bluff. Either let me fight scrubs and still make money or let me make more money fighting for an undeserved title shot.
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by Matthew Roth on Feb 15, 2010 1:45 PM EST up reply actions
Yeah, I think he’s trying to build his record the way boxers do by fighting 30 scrubs before they fight anyone worthwhile or competitive. Unfortunately nobody has the time or patience for that in this sport, especially at the level that he’s competing at.
Without pain, without sacrifice, we would have nothing.
by lowellthehammer on Feb 15, 2010 1:54 PM EST up reply actions
30? No. 8? Yes. And I don’t think there’s anything wrong with that. Take a gander at Shane Carwin’s first 8 fights.
Maybe he shouldn’t be competing in Strikeforce then if he doesn’t want big fights.
Without pain, without sacrifice, we would have nothing.
by lowellthehammer on Feb 15, 2010 2:39 PM EST up reply actions
Yeah, those guys aren’t main carders like Lashley is. Problem is Bobby wants it both ways: he wants easy opponents to “test” himself but he wants the pay and the attention that comes with being on a big promotion’s main card. It doesn’t work that way. Either he gets build up fights in the little leagues or he faces legitimate opponents in Strikeforce, otherwise he’s just wasting time and money.
Without pain, without sacrifice, we would have nothing.
by lowellthehammer on Feb 15, 2010 2:56 PM EST up reply actions
You should know that with the money Strikeforce is paying him they wouldn’t put him on a Challengers card, it’s a waste of what little hype and interest people actually have in him. Thing is Bobby chose to go to Strikeforce, but he wants to fight the same opponents he was fighting in the little shows. If he didn’t think he was ready to face Strikeforce’s HWs then why did he sign? Simple, he wants the money and exposure but not the challenge.
Without pain, without sacrifice, we would have nothing.
by lowellthehammer on Feb 15, 2010 4:44 PM EST up reply actions
Shane Carwin makes $18k less per fight than Bobby Lashley does. Lashley stepped up to a larger promotion earlier than Carwin did, that step up in promotions obviously is going to involve a step up in competition.
Not to mention
most people were turning down fights with Carwin in regional promos. He stepped up partially out of necessity.
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-Randall Munroe
Bobby Lashley realizes how serious getting kicked in the head and/or strangled can be, and is looking to take his progression (as a very new athlete to the sport) slowly. If you really believe you know better than Bobby Lashley about what is or is not good for Bobby Lashley and want him to fight stiffer competition than he feels he is ready for, why not send him all the way to the top?
by BillyJane on Feb 15, 2010 2:06 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
If he doesn’t challenge himself, how is he going to get any better? I agree, he should be taking his progression slowly, and Strikeforce isn’t the place to do it, with as much as he’s getting paid. I don’t want to see him against Fedor, Overeem, or even Rogers, because he’ll most likely get crushed. I also don’t want to see him fight Wes Sims, who provided no resistance. Just because I want him to take tougher fights doesn’t mean I want him to go against the best. I’d love to see him vs. Kimbo, were they in the same league.
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by Scott C. Broussard on Feb 15, 2010 4:53 PM EST up reply actions
So the only possible time for Bobby Lashley to EVER challenge himself is his very next fight or never?
If I read that correctly, your main problem is that he isn’t fighting the people you want him to fight. How rational of you, how reasonable. Maaaybe Bobby Lashley and Bobbly Lashley’s team know a little more about who they want to fight next and why than you do, just maybe.
he knows he's not ready
for rogers, overeem OR fedor, but a loss to fedor or overeem wouldn’t put the same whammy on his career a loss to rogers might. most people still don’t respect rogers much. a loss to him and lashley may be done, can’t say the same about ao or fe.
Or he knows he will get his ass handed to him from Brett Rogers. I think Lashley has potential. I ‘m just not sold that he is committed to being a world class mixed martial artist. It’s obvious that he sees that type of exposure and money that Lesnar gets and he wants the same. Unfortunately Lashley doesn’t have the tools of Lesnar.
I look at Lashley like a less explosive version of Kevin Randleman.
Yeah, but why call out Fedor or Overeem then? Why not just say that you need more time to become a better fighter? He’s given that option, but then says he’ll either do the build up career path or take on champions now.
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"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein
by Leland Roling on Feb 15, 2010 1:56 PM EST up reply actions
I am confused a little bit by your statement. I believe it is entirely clear in his comments that he just want’s to build up his career. It is the fan’s who are the one who want him to take major leaps in opponents. He is stating that if the fans want him to take major leaps why shouldn’t he take a bigger leap and take on the Champion.
Correct. I think he’s generally missing the point that fans are making. They want to see him against better competition while also taking into account he isn’t seasoned yet. I think fans want to see how he’ll do against a guy like Rogers. A test, hence why the other big names were lower on the totem pole in the poll.
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"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein
by Leland Roling on Feb 15, 2010 2:07 PM EST up reply actions
I would have voted for Brett Rogers in that poll because a) I think he would slaughter Lashley and b) he doesn’t deserve a shot at Fedor or Overeeem.
Deserving and getting big fights in MMA don’t always go hand in hand though.
"Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Ben Franklin
And yes...
… I know building up another formwer WWF star would be good for MMA.
"Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Ben Franklin
Well, he’s only saying that because the poll obviously wants him against better competition. But he’s saying that he might as well fight Fedor or Overeem if they want him to take that big of a leap in quality of competition. It makes sense, but then it doesn’t make sense to me.
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"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein
by Leland Roling on Feb 15, 2010 2:24 PM EST up reply actions
Strikeforce needs more heavymeights anyway. Why not bring a guy like Monson in for Lashley. That’s a decent step up.
"Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Ben Franklin
I suppose it depends on if Lashley thinks that’s a smaller step up. It sounds like he thinks Rogers is such a big step, he might as well just fight Fedor or Overeem. Who knows what he actually thinks of Monson.
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"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein
by Leland Roling on Feb 15, 2010 2:27 PM EST up reply actions
I suppose it depends on if Lashley thinks that’s a smaller step up. It sounds like he thinks Rogers is such a big step, he might as well just fight Fedor or Overeem. Who knows what he actually thinks of Monson.
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"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein
by Leland Roling on Feb 15, 2010 2:27 PM EST up reply actions
Except Bret Rogers isn’t a test…he’s a Top 10 fighter. And if we recall, Rogers didn’t get a test like this at the same point of his career. He was fighting the likes of John Murphy and James Thompson.
James Thompson would be a step up for Lashley at this point.
by ufc4 on Feb 15, 2010 2:27 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
KIMBO
… oh wait…
We're just a million little gods causin' rain storms, turning every good thing to rust.
by Anthony Pace on Feb 15, 2010 2:50 PM EST up reply actions
I think taking the time to build his skills is perfectly fine. The problem is he isn’t doing that. All of his opposition are at about the same level of difficulty. He’s got a few good fights under his belt, he needs to fight someone else that is in the middle of the pack not someone that is just coming off a fight at some county fair or someone that’s just some novelty freakshow fighter like Sapp. Guida was a pretty decent match up at the time but since then he hasn’t stepped up to the next level.
It’s like billiards, after dominating the D league tourneys most places force you to play C. Once you get a tourney win there they make you move up again. I think the fans are tired of watching him fight D level guys and step up to some C caliber fighters.
I’d be avoiding him right now. The next guy he faces is going to get months of anger over that bullshit decision unloaded on their face… unless it’s a top ten heavyweight.
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"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein
by Leland Roling on Feb 15, 2010 2:47 PM EST up reply actions
get months of anger over that bullshit decision unloaded on their face
that’s an interesting way of putting it…
We're just a million little gods causin' rain storms, turning every good thing to rust.
by Anthony Pace on Feb 15, 2010 2:50 PM EST up reply actions
I suppose Hague isn’t a bad fight though.
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"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein
by Leland Roling on Feb 15, 2010 2:56 PM EST up reply actions
Look at it from Rogers perspective...
You just went from fighting one of the top pound for pound fighters on the PLANET for a belt to fighting a guy whose last fight was against an out of shape, unprepared and embarrassing Wes Sims. Strikeforce will continue rushing fighters and in the end it’s just going to hurt them and the organization. You run out of choices quickly when you’ve got a roster as thin as theirs.
There are plenty of prospects in the Challengers series, in my opinion. Rogers isn’t a terrible fight for Lashley by any means, but I think his idea of continuing to build is his only option unless Strikeforce wants to bank on his name now. It’ll be much more limited capitalization of his name now than later though.
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"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein
by Leland Roling on Feb 15, 2010 2:01 PM EST up reply actions
Roger's is the winner in all this.
He’s fought (and put up a decent fight) against the #1 in the world – boosting his ranking. Now he possibly has a chance to add a huge name to the list that he would be the favorite against. I think Rogers wouldn’t mind this fight at all.
by HappyLittleTreez on Feb 15, 2010 2:04 PM EST up reply actions
But it’s lose-lose for Rogers. If he beats Lashley, he just beat a pretender. If he loses, then people think that HE’s a pretender.
I suppose if you look at it like that..
but I think beating a big name opponent like Lashley would do a lot for his career. Sure Lashley might not have the experience but he does have the name. Just look what beating Brock Lesnar did for Frank Mir’s career.
by HappyLittleTreez on Feb 15, 2010 2:40 PM EST up reply actions
Mir was a former champion. Yeah, it was at a time when the UFC HWs weren’t hot shit, and Mir had seemingly come back from his motorcycle accident a lesser fighter, but he was still a former champ. Not knocking Rogers, I just don’t think you can knock Mir that much.
We're just a million little gods causin' rain storms, turning every good thing to rust.
by Anthony Pace on Feb 15, 2010 3:12 PM EST up reply actions
If Rogers beat Lashley, then the non-hardcore fans would notice him more, especially the wresting folk who tune in for the name. If Lashley wins, it would really depend on the win on how Rogers is viewed after, IMO. Worst case scenario for Rogers is Lashley will have really developed his game and trounces him.
"I love it when a guy is bleeding on top of me." -- Diego Sanchez, post fight interview about his fight with Clay Guida
No, worse case scenario is that Lashley takes him down and the fight is stopped early. Rogers loses to an untested guy, and after a while, people forget it was an early stoppage, and just see him as getting “exposed.”
If you're scared go to church..
if you’re a fighter fight the people they put in front of you. You can’t build a career picking opponents. If you’re afraid to lose because it could hurt your ‘image/reputation’ then you shouldn’t be fighting.
by HappyLittleTreez on Feb 15, 2010 4:25 PM EST up reply actions
I completely don’t believe it is about money. I believe it is the obvious judging from his past interviews starting from the beginning of his career. He wants to build on his skill set slowly (Boxing Prospect Style). Progressing at each fight in a singular aspect. I don’t blame him for this as this is an excellent way to improve as a fighter. For a fan this is not always ideal, but as a fan we don’t having anything invested into career other than the time watching him fight. Lashley has his whole career and financial livelihood riding on his performances. I will always be in support of the fighter at this juncture.
Well, he wants to fight a champion or build his career slowly. Past interviews have also revealed that he feels the pay is way low for his standards, and he needs money to pay for all the training, hence the TNA gig.
It’s a choice. Is he going to accept a huge fight? Or is Strikeforce going to build him up like he says he wants to do as well? I’d go with the latter.
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"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein
by Leland Roling on Feb 15, 2010 2:02 PM EST up reply actions
Oh ok. I guess we are in agreement then that the best way foward for Lashley personally and Strikeforce is to let him build up his career slowly and not be facing the Brett Rogers and AO of the world. Honestly i am not sure who SF can match him up agains a guy like Del Rosario is too good at this time for him. Lashley most likely would get submitted.
the problem with this idea is that it isn’t what’s happening in practice. You can’t say that and then have the rumored opponents that he did for his last match.
None of the 3 names that were talked about would do anything to build up any aspect of his career. Everyone was a guy that he could take down at will, and then would have nothing to do from off of their back.
I think rogers is too big of a jump for him, but he needs to be fighting people of the caliber of Wes Sims, but people who are known for their wrestling or jiu jitsu (instead of known for getting DQed and losing in the first round of TUF).
“Either let me fight the way I want to — build up, get a few fights under my belt, work my way up — or let me fight the champ. If it’s fighting the champ I’ll fight the champ.”
I think he just wants to shut people up. People are saying he’s not fighting top tier competition, but this guy isn’t Brock Lesnar. Every fighter with the exception of a few start off in small shows fighting nobodies. He’s doing the same — he’s not ready for big names.
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by IHateMMA on Feb 15, 2010 2:03 PM EST reply actions 2 recs
I keep hearing this but I think people are missing the point. He doesn’t have to fight someone as good as Rogers yet, but it would be nice if he wasn’t fighting total scrubs.
by ufc4 on Feb 15, 2010 2:30 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
But 52% of people polled said otherwise. They think that he DOES have to fight someone as good as Rogers. And if I was Lashley, I’d be pissed too.
But the existence of the poll makes it obvious that the majority of fans think that he should be thrown into deep waters.
but it isn’t. He said the same exact thing before the poll existed.
They asked him about the poll, but he gave the same canned answer he’s been giving about his opponents since after the wes sims fight.
Sorry to do this to you, but I’m going to have to ask you to produce that same exact quote, NOT in response to people posing the Bret Rogers fight to him.
He was asked in this interview, “what’s next,” and gave a very similar answer
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=anE7iIJn1mE&feature=player_embedded#
by Phildo on Feb 15, 2010 2:52 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
For the record, I still agree with him, that he needs more development, and needs a step up that ISN’T a huge step up.
so do i.
I want him to fight a can that knows how to wrestle, or one who has better defense off of their back than a turtle.
He keeps saying that he wants to work on different aspects of his game, namely the stand up, but every fight he’s in he immediately goes for a takedown (which he was able to get with ease against everyone but Guida) and then wins in a few seconds.
Shit, fight guida again, mediocre boxer, wes sims, and jimmy ambriz are not useful. I’m not sure exactly who is because I don’t know everyone around the level of fighter he should be fighting, but there is a level between wes sims and brett rogers, and even people at the wes sims level that are a lot better of a fight for him to take.
i wanted big foot silva, brandon jacobs pee wee herman, TIM SYLVIA how about AA…LOL
by fedor spiderush st.gracie on Feb 15, 2010 8:02 PM EST up reply actions
I didn’t realize that was a scientific poll.
by ufc4 on Feb 15, 2010 3:50 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
rogers is prolly a little high up on the ladder to ask lashely to go i think silva or maybe whitehead could be a better choice
than rogers or werdum after werdum losses to fedor
by Richard Doughty on Feb 15, 2010 2:04 PM EST reply actions
Big Foot could Muay Thai the shit out of Lashley
But I love love love the matchup you mentioned
We're just a million little gods causin' rain storms, turning every good thing to rust.
by Anthony Pace on Feb 15, 2010 2:54 PM EST up reply actions
“Either let me fight the way I want to — build up, get a few fights under my belt, work my way up — or let me fight the champ.”
“The interesting questions revolve around why Lashley is suddenly wanting to springboard his career into an area in which he’s likely not experienced enough to handle.”
In this quote, and in the history of all his interviews, he makes it explicitly clear that he does not want to fight people above his level. However, due to his fame, people expect him to. Having to concede the control of his career over to unsympathetic fans and promoters is a forfeit of the development path anyone with common sense would choose. The mindset that if he’s going to compete beyond his skill level he may as well go big or go home isn’t something that I think should be held against him.
I really can’t comprehend how educated people are overlooking the blindingly obvious fact that he doesn’t want to fight above his level.
by Simco on Feb 15, 2010 2:04 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
Actually, I understand that quote. My problem is this…
Hypothetically, if fans want him to NOT fight the way he wants to fight… why would you simply say… I’ll fight Overeem and go big or go home?
It seems like futile career move if he HAD to move up in competition. I understand that if he had to move up, why not just fight the champ now… but that seems like a rather extreme quote when he could just fight a middle of the road guy in the promotion who’s lost to a champion.
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"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein
by Leland Roling on Feb 15, 2010 2:13 PM EST up reply actions
And he could fight a guy who had huge exposure in the lead-in to Fedor vs. Rogers.
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"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein
by Leland Roling on Feb 15, 2010 2:19 PM EST up reply actions
But that doesn’t address the 52% of fans who say that if he’s not fighting the Top 10 fighter Bret Rogers, they won’t be satisfied.
If they actually won’t be satisfied unless he’s fighting Brett Rogers, they are idiots.
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"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein
by Leland Roling on Feb 15, 2010 2:44 PM EST up reply actions
Very true. The answers were pretty bad. Why not stick Del Rosario’s name on there?
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"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein
by Leland Roling on Feb 15, 2010 2:48 PM EST up reply actions
It’s Inside MMA…not exactly the Braniacs of MMA media. I’m surprised Kimbo Slice wasn’t listed as an option.
MMAJunkie.com made up the poll though...
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"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein
by Leland Roling on Feb 15, 2010 2:52 PM EST up reply actions
And actually...
I think the simplest answer is that Lashley is looking for a significant pay increase if he has to take on top competition, and battling one of those two is a big increase. Ideally, Lashley doesn’t want to have to do that right now. We’ve heard the stories about Lashley continuing to professional wrestle with TNA while also training for MMA, but he’s recently been released from the wrestling promotion. He’s stated that he’s now focusing solely on MMA, but I have my doubts as to whether that will continue.
This is what it should have said, but I conveyed the opinion poorly.
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"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein
by Leland Roling on Feb 15, 2010 2:16 PM EST up reply actions
It looks a lot better to lose to the champ
than to lose to Shane Del Rosario. Quite frankly, Del Rosario is the perfect fight: both are prospects with lots of questions and some obvious skills. It’s a step up in competition, but to another unranked competitor and not a top ten guy like the champ Overeem or former #1 contender Brett Rogers.
"Someone is WRONG on the internet. What do you want me to do? LEAVE? Then they'll keep being wrong!"
-Randall Munroe
Brent made a good point the other day
Most people dont care if he chosses not to take a Rogers, Silca, or Werdum fight but we want to see a fight where it should be competetive or that Lashley can actually lose.
Del Rasario and Cash and Barrett would all be fine opponents in my book.
I think Del Rosario is the top dog of the prospect field, so I wouldn’t mind that either now or after another fight for Lashley against someone a little more well-rounded with a reputable camp
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"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein
by Leland Roling on Feb 15, 2010 2:17 PM EST up reply actions
It doesn’t have to be Shane.
It has to be someone who presents some sort of realistic threat other than some long shot “anyone can win on any night” chance that a guy like Ambriz or Sims bring to the table.
That’s my problem. His last 2 fights haven’t been growth fights, they’ve been “get me a win” fights. And hearing about the names Bobby’s camp did not want him to fight was kind of disheartening. They weren’t all Shane Del Rosario types. There were guys that were decent fighters with less than 10 fights. They seemed to be looking for someone that was not a threat in any way.
It’s probably too soon for Rogers right now. I wouldn’t argue that. But keeping to what he has been doing isn’t good enough for me.
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by Brent Brookhouse on Feb 15, 2010 2:32 PM EST up reply actions
They had the perfect guy lined up, Ron Waterman. Set up that fight again for April 24th. Or bring in Mark Coleman (actually Mark might be too good of wrestler but I expect him to gas), Dan Christison, or my personal favorite choice, Dan Puder.
After that you can see if he’s ready for Shane Del Rosario.
Daniel Puder, the guy who actually fucked up Kurt Angle? I think he was trying to become an actual MMA fighter, what happened to him?
We're just a million little gods causin' rain storms, turning every good thing to rust.
by Anthony Pace on Feb 15, 2010 2:57 PM EST up reply actions
Actually, that's not a bad idea.
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"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein
by Leland Roling on Feb 15, 2010 2:57 PM EST up reply actions
How big is Daniel Puder? I don’t remember him being a HW-size guy in WWE. Google is my friend…
We're just a million little gods causin' rain storms, turning every good thing to rust.
by Anthony Pace on Feb 15, 2010 2:58 PM EST up reply actions
Hmm...
Puder looks like a legit prospect, actually. He’s a 235-lb guy that’s 8-0. Gonna try to find some fight video.
We're just a million little gods causin' rain storms, turning every good thing to rust.
by Anthony Pace on Feb 15, 2010 3:00 PM EST up reply actions
He’s pretty… boring. That’s probably the biggest complaint, but it is a decent fight for Lashley.
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"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein
by Leland Roling on Feb 15, 2010 3:01 PM EST up reply actions
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T_HFb0rRpxw
Skip to 6:00. Sloppy striking, but he seems fairly agressive here. Then again, Michael Alden is apparently a bum that used to weigh 310 pounds.
We're just a million little gods causin' rain storms, turning every good thing to rust.
by Anthony Pace on Feb 15, 2010 3:11 PM EST up reply actions
Yeah, it’s been awhile since I’ve seen Puder fight. My memory isn’t serving me right now.
Follow me on Twitter @lelandroling
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein
by Leland Roling on Feb 15, 2010 3:13 PM EST up reply actions
I have heard rumblings on the UG that Puder is on the outs with AKA and Strikeforce. Sounds like a he burned some bridges. I never heard any specifics though, so take it with a massive grain of salt.
However, it would explain why he went from being one of Strikeforce’s poster boys (fighting on four Strikeforce events in 2006-2007) to having to work his way back up through local promotions.
Rec'd
Totally agreement. It is frustratingly obvious this is the case, which makes it very troubling that this is beyond the scope of some people.
Rogers is great!
He could also be fighting guys like Warpath or Goodridge or Ambriz. Someone who’s tough and probably won’t be able to take him down or sub from the bottom. Heck, what about Fujita? Two wrestlers bangin’?
I've got two words for everyone...
Tim Sylvia…
It has everything he could want in an opponent.
Big name. Check.
Declining Fighter. Check.
And despite how most people now feel about Sylvia, it’d be a pretty good step up in competition for him.
Associate Writer - WindyCityGridiron.com
They should just forego the fight and have a hot dog eating contest instead
Since it looks like that’s all either fighter is built for these days.
Get rid of the ramp!
He doesn't want to fight any tough guys
This is a loophole so he doesn’t look bad— saying he wants to fight guys they would never let him at this point and then providing the alternative of fighting nobodies. His camp turned down the Del Rosario fight. I don’t think Bobby is really interested in being a fighter— he’s just trying to cash in at as high a rate as possible against the lowest quality of opposition possible. For a guy that just wants to get paid, it’s a pretty smart tactic, because Strikeforce is going to let him get away with it.
Blackout612- "Wuts teh UFC?"
Ubernoober- "It like two guy who just stand and swing for fence and try to knock each other shit out it awesome"
by Blackout612 on Feb 15, 2010 3:03 PM EST reply actions 7 recs
I think Lashley is afraid to lose...
What a weird guy. So Srikeforce either let him keep fighting no-hoper’s or let him fight for the belt?
How’s he even serious about that. He should feel Honoured to fight people like Big Foot, Bret Rogers and that Del Rosario guy. They’ve achieved much more than him in MMA and probably even all favourites against him.
This guy just makes me yawn… He needs to get serious. And Strikeforce need to get serious too. King Mo for example should at least beat someone like Babalou before he gets Mousasi. You can’t go from beating an overweight Mike Whitehead to fighting for the belt!!! Same with Lashley, you cant just go from beating someone who doesn’t even take training seriously to fighting Overeem or Fedor.
Speaking of Overeem, that guy is just a bully. Who’s he gonna fight next, his mam? Seriously, whens he going to fight an MMA fighter who’s going to challenge him?
by Ilias on Feb 15, 2010 5:49 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
His outlook on MMA is as follows:
Let me beat cans or pay me big bucks to lose to the champion
Seems clear to me Lashley is happy to get paid for being on tv beating up scrubs, he has no intention of progressing his career and fighting better guys. Maybe I’m cynical but thats the impression I get
My thoughts, exactly.
Follow me on Twitter @lelandroling
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein
by Leland Roling on Feb 16, 2010 9:13 AM EST up reply actions
It’s a theory. Or he wants to succeed as a legitimate MMA fighter and is therefore mindfully trying to manage his path like anyone else would. We can all speculate what a guys’ motivations are, to no end, without ever really knowing. Even after they make arbitrary declarations about their reasoning there are always gonna be numerous factors, conscious and subconscious.
by Postpubescent on Feb 15, 2010 7:20 PM EST up reply actions
Lashley went from likable to unlikable in less than a month.
I think he wants to become Lesnar of SF. Not gonna happen.
Lesnar>Lashley
"Well... You're damned if you do, and You're damned if you don't."- Bart Simpson
No, every quote from him makes it clear that he is trying NOT to be like Lesnar, but fans’ expectations are that he should duplicate Lesnar’s rapid progression.
right...
Cause he’s stuck by every word he’s said?
He said he wanted to build himself up slowly before getting those bigger fights. They offer him rogers and he refuses, but he wants Fedor or Overeem? k.
And actually he’s more annoying than unlikable.
"Well... You're damned if you do, and You're damned if you don't."- Bart Simpson
by poundnground on Feb 15, 2010 3:27 PM EST up reply actions
I like how people always say this yet there’s not one ounce of truth to it. Lesnar fought a former world champ in his 2nd fight and was the champ by his fourth fight, Lashley is obviously nowhere close to that and nobody with any intelligence is asking him to be, we just want him to fight someone with some actual skills who didn’t peak 8 years ago.
by ufc4 on Feb 15, 2010 3:55 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Give him Shane Del Rosario
"Well... You're damned if you do, and You're damned if you don't."- Bart Simpson
by poundnground on Feb 15, 2010 4:21 PM EST up reply actions
i agree that he is unlikable…. “either do it my way or let me fight the champ”?! uh…. isn’t that both your way?? how does this guy come in and want to be his own match-maker?! LASHLEY, you don’t get special treatment because you were a wwf nobody.
by cagefightonacid on Feb 15, 2010 6:18 PM EST up reply actions
Lashley has a lot in common with Satoshi Ishii
Everyone wants to make comparisons to Lesnar because they both came from wrasslin but the better comparison is Satoshi Ishii.
The UFC has the ladder depth to make compelling fights against progressively more difficult opponents. Strikeforce does not. Instead they have fighters on the extreme low end and then at the high end with very little in between. Strikeforce better pray they don’t jump the gun and overmatch Lashley against someone like Overeem or even Rogers at this point. Otherwise they’ll have a Satoshi Ishii-esq fighter on their hands, all the promise and fan fare in the world, out the window in one fight.
by NateDouble on Feb 15, 2010 4:21 PM EST reply actions 2 recs
That was my thought
Strikeforce doesn’t have the fighters to gradually upskill a fighter like Lashley – but the UFC does.
However, Lashley chose to sign with Strikeforce not the UFC and it looks like he did it on purpose. I’m beginning to think he doesn’t really wants to be a great fighter and put in the effort required.
He reminds me of a high draft pick NFL player – they get the big money out of college and then if they don’t have that fire they just coast…until it’s time for a new contract then put together one good year, sign the next contract and coast…
Not bad money if you can get it.
Interesting comment by Neil from MMA For Real
“Lashley isn’t "cut", as all reports from the wrasslin’ side of things indicate it was a pretty open contract; he’s no longer on TNA’s "active roster", but there is still a good relationship for him to come back when he’s done fighting.
I think that this is a good start for Lashley, but I don’t think that him wrestling was holding him back from MMA. Like, I could say that my eating habits are holding ME back from being a legit fighter (which they are), but I’m also way too damn lazy to even think of picking up a combat sport. Lashley is similar, although he has all of the physical gifts, and certainly the ability.. but he doesn’t seem to put it all together. From reports, he doesn’t train consistantly (and didn’t, even before returning to wrestling), but I suppose this frees up some of his time to at least give it a shot, if he wanted.”
by The Bronzeville Bully on Feb 15, 2010 5:53 PM EST via mobile reply actions
If he’s getting low payouts, he’ll go back to TNA part-time. It’s almost a guarantee.
Follow me on Twitter @lelandroling
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein
by Leland Roling on Feb 16, 2010 9:13 AM EST up reply actions
mike whitehead or brandon jacobs , bugfoot are logical sf employees
by fedor spiderush st.gracie on Feb 15, 2010 8:05 PM EST reply actions
fighting tank abbot is a right of passage for any up n comer
im sure hes available
by fedor spiderush st.gracie on Feb 15, 2010 8:09 PM EST reply actions
So the consensus is...
Brett is too big a jump but Bobby’s level of opposition should be higher than the Wes Sims of the MMA world, right?
If Derek Jeter clubbed a baby seal on earth day while wearing a mink coat and crocodile skin boots while burning tires on an iceberg, the reaction would be "Its OK Derek, you’re a Yankee." -First mammal to wear pants
You gotta be kidding
Who does this guy think he is? He thinks he can leap frog everyone and get a title shot? Give the fans what they want? Here’s the news buddy everyone just wants to see you get your ass kicked you over look Rogers and I believe he’d give you facial reconstruction. No way lashley could get passed Rogers. This just pushes my buttons in son many wrong ways seeing guys like this who havnt fought anybody and cry title shot it’s ludacris. Who is he to say he wants to take a giant leap. Earn your way buddy don’t overlook fighters who have earned theirs. This is what gives mma a bad name this is where fighters have a serious chance if getting hurt. I’m sure Lashley has talent but that will only get you so far when you have vastly more skilled and experianced fighters. This is strikeforce and I still don’t believe Lashley is top 10. This is why I don’t respect orgs as much as I do the ufc because Dana would put this guy in his place and let him know his heads gettin to big for his britchs.
by Bloodsport on Feb 15, 2010 10:58 PM EST via mobile reply actions
Who is he to say he wants to take a giant leap.
Um…what? He doesn’t want to take a giant leap. He’s saying that if the fans want him to take a giant leap, that he would rather go after the champion.
He’s been about working his way up since the beginning.
If Derek Jeter clubbed a baby seal on earth day while wearing a mink coat and crocodile skin boots while burning tires on an iceberg, the reaction would be "Its OK Derek, you’re a Yankee." -First mammal to wear pants
What this guy said.
Follow me on Twitter @lelandroling
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein
by Leland Roling on Feb 16, 2010 9:14 AM EST up reply actions
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