Dan Hardy Comfortable Playing the Underdog
by Brent Brookhouse on Feb 13, 2010 7:42 PM EST
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At least, that's what he says in his most recent blog at This Is Nottingham:
Being the underdog in this fight is exactly the position I want. I wouldn't have it any other way. When you step into a fight as a favourite, it takes some of the excitement and drama away from it all.
It almost takes my interest out of the fight. If I'm looking at moving forward in my career and reaching the top, I'm going to need to be the underdog in a few bouts.
That just shows you are taking risks and are prepared to go up against the best fighters in the world. I should always be fighting guys that are considered better than me. The moment you fight guys who are worse than you, you might as well give up.
I really like Hardy's ability to sell a fight, but I also enjoy the fact that when he is speaking honestly he seems to have a good grasp on building his career. The last paragraph really shows an attitude 180 degrees from what we have heard from a guy like Bobby Lashley who is basically admitting that the only time he wants to face someone better than him is when he gets to fight for a title.
If Hardy picks up a loss, as most expect, he will come away with an idea of what he needs to correct to be a fighter capable of competing at the top of the division. Meanwhile, Bobby Lashley will just continue to learn that he can just stay the same exact fighter to continue beating up men of questionable skills.
HT: MMA Mania
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Yeah Hardy, like your gonna be the favorite against GSP.
by J_Maddux on Feb 13, 2010 6:07 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
What are you on about?
He says he is the underdog and seems to accept that he should be.
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by Brent Brookhouse on Feb 13, 2010 6:09 PM EST up reply actions
I think the point he is (poorly) making is, what’s Hardy supposed to say? That he’s uncomfortable being the underdog or that he should be the favorite? He’s fighting Georges Fucking St. Pierre, obviously he’s gonna be a huge dog, he’s got no choice BUT to accept it.
by ufc4 on Feb 13, 2010 6:19 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
How is my point poorly made? Do i have to spell it out? You just echoed exactly what i was saying.
by J_Maddux on Feb 13, 2010 6:25 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Nowhere in his quote did Hardy say anything closely resembling “I should be favored”, that’s why your point is poorly made.
by ufc4 on Feb 13, 2010 6:27 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Your point was extremely poorly made by making it sound as though Hardy is being a fool and acting as though he should be favored.
Of course he has to accept that he is the underdog, but the point is that he is saying the right things. He should ALWAYS be fighting the best. If people don’t think he might lose, then he is taking the wrong fights.
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by Brent Brookhouse on Feb 13, 2010 6:35 PM EST up reply actions
In my opinion it does not sound like i was saying that he thinks he should be the favorite.
I just think he was stating the obvious.
by J_Maddux on Feb 13, 2010 7:02 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
For a guy with such a cockiness
He sure is level headed and grounded. That’s why I’ve liked him for a while now.
"I will do nothing lightly. When I walk, I will walk heavily. When I fight, I will fight with conviction. When I speak, I will speak strongly. When I love, I will love with everything"
So if the bookmakers and analyst had him as a favorite, he wouldn’t train as hard?
by J_Maddux on Feb 13, 2010 6:15 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
Yes but if that where the case then everybody would expect him to not train as hard and would then assume that his opponent was going to be able to capitalize off of that, thus making him the underdog again and putting the ball back in Hardy’s court.
We’ll just see come fight time if Hardy will be able to go from underdog to wonderdog…damn Animal Planet.
"You never know, I don't know, you know?" - Nick Diaz
Jesus. You’re being extremely annoying about this.
If he said “I should be the favorite” you’d call him an idiot. If he accepts that he is the underdog and says it motivates him you say this crap.
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by Brent Brookhouse on Feb 13, 2010 6:37 PM EST up reply actions 9 recs
If it looks like a troll, and smells like a troll, don’t feed it.. It very well might be a troll.
Be like water..
by theredoctober on Feb 13, 2010 10:30 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
The last paragraph really shows an attitude 180 degrees from what we have heard from a guy like Bobby Lashley who is basically admitting that the only time he wants to face someone better than him is when he gets to fight for a title.
When Bobby Lashley is 30 fights into his career like Hardy is, he should probably be held to the same standard. Right now, it’s just foolhardy to expect him to be competitive with a Top 10 Fighter. Sure an upset could happen, but look what happened to Sokoudju when he got tossed into the deep end too soon.
by madiq on Feb 13, 2010 6:20 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
Lashley isn’t even fighting top 100 guys, to mention top 10 fighters as his opponents is laughable. And Soko had the wins to validate his being thrown in the deep end, it’s not like he was fighting cans then all of a sudden he’s going up against guys like Machida, there was a reason for it.
by ufc4 on Feb 13, 2010 6:25 PM EST via mobile up reply actions 1 recs
Why? He’s the same fighter today he was 3 years ago, when you’re making the kind of dough that he was on his first UFC contract you’re gonna have to sink or swim quickly.
by ufc4 on Feb 13, 2010 6:30 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
And that’s why it was a mistake for him to have fought Nogueira and Arona. Sure he won, but all it did was give fans Top 10 expectations of him, rather than “4-1 fighter” expectations.
I just don’t see how you can call it a mistake since he won those fights. I doubt he minded since by the time he got to the UFC he was making $75,000 to show instead of $10,000 or whatever he was getting in Japan.
by ufc4 on Feb 13, 2010 7:08 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Well you just said that he’s the same fighter today that he was 3 years ago. If he had to WORK his way up to those $75K paydays, maybe he’d be the type of fighter who STAYED in the UFC, rather than get cut after three fights. Then maybe he’d be 11-2 instead of 7-6, and have a future ahead of him. Basically, he’d be where Luis Cane is.
Wow, that’s a lot of projecting. Did you consider he may have maxed out his potential early and that’s just as good as he could ever be?
by ufc4 on Feb 13, 2010 8:40 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Doesn’t matter if he had. He still would have fought a few fighters who were closer to his level, instead of Top 10-15 fighters. He would have accumulated more wins before eventually peaking, and he’d have a better record. So instead of peaking at his 6th or 7th fight, he’d be peaking in his 12th or 13th fight. And, he might have had a couple KO of the Night bonuses to show for it. Again, just like Luis Cane, if he has already peaked, he did pretty well for himself, much better than Sokoudju has.
how many fights does it take to reach your “max” comfort zone? how many “top ten” guys do you have to fight before you are considered top flight yourself? how many losses can you sustain before you are considered “done”?
you cant compare luis cane to soku. different fighters, totally different set of circumstances. how many fights did st. pierre have before his first go round with hughes and penn? he looked lost against matt in thier first fight, at times. but take a look at cain, the hype train has been rollin strong and he just keeps winning. how many fight has he had?
by sadface on Feb 13, 2010 10:37 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
He keeps winning…except that he just lost.
by HarmlessNinja on Feb 14, 2010 12:28 AM EST up reply actions
How dare we expect him to perform at the level he preformed at in the past???
Damn these pattern recognition tendencies of mine!
Yeah but in retrospect it doesn't seem like the best thing they could have done, considering the beast Machida is.
They just didn’t know he was such a beast at the time.
Right, and they were hoping Soko would win (and expecting him to).
by ufc4 on Feb 13, 2010 7:10 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
The thing your forgetting about Lashley is his age
He is 33 and gonna be 34 in July, so unless his plan is to be the next Randy Couture or Mark Coleman you either have to shit or get off the pot.
If Lashley was in his 20’s it would be a different story but Lashley will most likely get to fight 3 maybe 4 times a year and so the question becomes is how many build up fights is he gonna want before being thrown in the deep end.
Time is not on his side. He’s older than Lesnar and Fedor.
It’s not up to you to plan the next seven years of his life. The conventional wisdom is that you’re only as good as your last fight, and it is precisely because he doesn’t have forever to experience a career renaissance that it’s important that he develop his skills before getting dangerous fights.
Nobody thinks that he’s a well-rounded fighter yet. And yet, people expect him to face well-rounded fighters, just so 25% of you can applaud his “heart,” while 75% of you can say “Lashley got exposed; I knew he was a bum.” It was the same way with Roger Huerta. That’s not the responsible way to handle a prospect, especially not one who comes wit the price tag Lashley comes with.
If you want to voice your displeasure, do it when someone starts saying he should be ranked. Not when he wants to face fighters on his level, until he feels like he can handle the challenge.
by madiq on Feb 13, 2010 6:55 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Fighters on his level?
These fighters are not on his level though. Take his first 5 fights and only the people that hate Bobby Lashley and wanted to see him fail thought any of those 5 opponents stood a chance.
3 out of his first 5 opponents were coming off a loss(Sims on TUF) and Franklin was making his debut.
If he wants to take it slow fine but at the same time there is taking it slow and stepping it up in competetion and taking it slow and not stepping up in competetion. Wes Sims to me is not better than Bob Sapp.
I’d much rather see him face a Brandan Cash or Shane Del Rasario because then it’s still taking it slowly but its stepping up in competetion. Hell if he faces a guy like that I can actually believe it will be competetive and that he can lose.
You’re confusing “test” with “toss-up fight.” I’m saying that Lashley probably loses to Del Rosario, and that Brandon Cash would be viewed as a can by the MMA media, who want to put him in there with Bret Rogers.
I thought he was confusing “test” with “Test” the former pro wrestler and saying that’s who Lashley should fight next.
by ufc4 on Feb 13, 2010 8:46 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
I don’t think people expect him to face top 10 fighters. People want him to quit fighting 1-2 cans, like he tried to do for the last Strikeforce. Wes Sims would have have been a good challenge if it hadn’t been on a week’s notice. The point is to slowly improve the competition level, get someone who can challenge you. Not someone you are expected to beat in 30 seconds, and it’s a disappointment if it lasts over 1 minute.
by Swordslasher on Feb 13, 2010 6:33 PM EST up reply actions
Right.
He should be taking fights where people say “he really could lose this” or “this should be competitive”
No one but people who wanted to see him fail were saying that about guys like Sims or Sapp.
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by Brent Brookhouse on Feb 13, 2010 6:39 PM EST up reply actions
It almost looks like he doesn’t want a loss… Or if he does get a loss, it has to be up against a beast. Maybe it has to do with the Professional Wrestling; he’d lose his image as an undefeated MMA prospect.
But wouldn’t he? For all our desire to see him step up in competition, what happens if he takes a loss like Antonio Silva did to Eric Pele?
That’s the problem with guys like Lashley, if you want to make big money and be on tv right off the bat then you gotta take some risks sooner than some dude off the street nobody has ever heard of. Maybe that’s unfair, maybe it’s not, but it’s how things work.
by ufc4 on Feb 13, 2010 8:54 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Except it isn’t. Show my a heavyweight prospect, and I’ll show you a fighter whose first few fights were against relative unknowns. Guys don’t start getting “stiff tests” until their 7th or 8th fight.
Show me a “prospect” who was making as much as Lashley is this early in his career and has his fights televised. I know of one.
by ufc4 on Feb 13, 2010 9:29 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Cain Velasquez:
4th Fight: Jake O’Brien (a fight to test where he wrestling was)
5th Fight: Denis Stojnić (a fight to test his ability against a striker)
Junior dos Santos
4th Fight: Joaquim Ferreira (a totally legit fighter – and the one man to beat JdS when they rematched a few fights later)
Frank Mir
4th Fight: Pete Williams (test against a man of experience and well roundedness)
5th Fight: Ian Freeman (test against a rough, grinding fighter)
Pat Barry
4th Fight: Dan Evensen (first fight on big stage and a test against a guy with a lot of stopping power)
5th Fight: Tim Hague (Tough fight against a guy who can neutralize a pure striker)
Todd Duffee
4th Fight: Assuerio Silva
5th Fight: Tim Hague
Bobby Lashley:
4th Fight: Wes Simms (a fight to get him a win)
5th Fight: sounds like it’s not going to be anyone who can push him too hard
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by Brent Brookhouse on Feb 14, 2010 10:26 AM EST up reply actions
*Sims
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by Brent Brookhouse on Feb 14, 2010 10:28 AM EST up reply actions
I don’t count Lesnar just based on his career path not being one that fits in to the normal “prospect” mode. He’s a freak.
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by Brent Brookhouse on Feb 14, 2010 12:03 PM EST up reply actions
1. First off, you’re using a guy who was in the UFC at 2-0, and facing the second best heavyweight of all time at 7-0. That’s not really a conventional prospect to begin with. However, Jake O’Brien went from being the guy who was supposed to give Heath Herring a showcase fight, to the guy who Andrei Arlovski was supposed to look bad against, to Cain Velasquez’s showcase opponent, a man with wrestling skill and little else. I’m sure that if Lashley faced a wrestler with little to no standup, the fans would have a field day with the choice.
2. Joaquim Ferreira might be a legit fighter now, but when he fought JdS, he was 3-1, coming off a loss, and lost the fight due to Exhaustion at the end of the first round. Do you know what people would say about a fighter who lost to Lashley due to exhaustion?
3. Pat Barry was in the UFC at 3-0, and in his most recent fight, fought Antoni Hardonk because he LOST his fifth fight to Hague. However controversial that fight might have been, it’s still a loss. However, the UFC has the resources to match Barry with opponents that he can possibly bounce back against, i.e., stand up strikers. Dan Evenson was coming off a first round loss to Chieck Kongo. And is Evenson’s stopping power greater than Bob Sapp’s?
4. Yes, Assuerio Silva is the kind of guy that Bobby Lashley could be fighting, Tim Hague is another one; too bad he’s coming off two straight losses, and now will be seen as a UFC washout, so if he fights a guy like Lashley next, we’ll see the same arguments about Lashley not wanting to test himself.
Also, I’ll help you out, Wes Sims was Lashley’s FIFTH opponent, but like I said, he was a last second replacement for Jimmy Ambriz, who probably would have put up more of a fight.
However, what all of these people have in common is that they’re not Top 25 fighters. Can we at least agree that fight with a Top 25 guy is too much to ask?
You said "Show my a heavyweight prospect, and I’ll show you a fighter whose first few fights were against relative unknowns." I showed you several
Jimmy Ambriz is awful and no more legitimate of a fight than Wes Sims.
The point you missed is that all of these guys were fighting people who provided some sort of TEST. Bob Sapp, Wes Sims and Jimmy Ambriz provide no test to Lashley. He’s not DEVELOPING.
- Yes, Evenson’s stopping power is better than Sapp’s at this point.
- Yes, Pat Barry lost and likely learned more from that loss than Lashley learned from either of his last fights.
- Hague is still a fine fight for Bobby and I’d call anyone who said he wasn’t out for it.
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by Brent Brookhouse on Feb 14, 2010 3:43 PM EST up reply actions
Fair enough. You named a few fighters whose fourth and fifth fights were in the UFC, and I should have specified that anyone fighting in the UFC in his fourth or fifth fight was an unconventional prospect.
But you’re right. Lashley and Strikeforce need to try harder. But there’s a HUGE gulf between Tim Hague and Bret Rogers, and I think that the people saying that Rogers should be his next fight don’t want to see Lashley succeed, so their opinions are invalid.
I would’ve LOVED to see Lashley vs. Del Rosario or Cormier, but I can understand how a promotion that knows how aggressive the UFC has been about signing heavyweight talent would be reluctant to match prized prospects against each other until such time as they had big enough names for those matches to matter.
But that’s just the thing … Strikeforce WANTED to challenge Lashley but Lashley’s management turned down multiple offers until Strikeforce finally offered them a chump (Yohan Banks).
I have no issue with Strikeforce in regards to the Lashley mess. My issue is with the Lashley camp repeatedly turning down competitive fights until Strikeforce finally broke down and offered them a creampuff.
I don’t see anyone holding the Pele loss against Bigfoot.
He is still considered one of the best HWs outside the UFC and was basically put in a #1 contenders match by Strikeforce, coming up just short versus Fabricio Werdum. That Pele loss hasn’t hurt his career one iota.
That is what Lashley doesn’t get. No one that matters is going to hold it against him if he goes up against a quality fighter and loses. Sure, the haters will have a field day with it, but they are already having a field day with his penchant for fighting tomato cans. He is never going to change their minds, so he might as well concentrate on fighting guys who can move his career forward. Beating up on the Wes Sims and Bob Sapps of the world is not moving his career forward.
Maybe not three years later, but after the Pele loss he had to fight guys like Jonathan Wiezorek and Cabbage Correira, guys who, if Lashley fought them, would be considered “cans.” And while you think that beating Sapp and Sims doesn’t move his career forward, I think that they’re on his level, and are “named” guys, rather than unknowns, which helps him build a resume.
Really?
Was that a joke? Wes Sims on one week’s notice is on Lashley’s level? If that’s the case he should just quit now.
by ufc4 on Feb 13, 2010 9:32 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Lashley fought Jason Guida in his second fight, and Bob Sapp in his fourth fight. (Yes, the same Bob Sapp who fought Sokoudju.) He signed to fight Jimmy Ambriz, who has been in the ring with Sergei Kharitinov and Jeff Monson, and ended up facing Wes Sims. That’s hardly 1-2 cans; don’t confuse him with Hershel Walker just because they fought on the same card.
Great.
Lashley has proven he can beat up minimally talented but highly experienced scrubs. Now that he has proven he can beat those kinds of guys, it’s time for him to move onward and upward and fight some guys who are going to more than just show up looking for a paycheck.
I’d even be happy with him fighting guys like Abongo Humphrey or John Devine. At least those guys are young, hungry and still looking to make a mark on the sport rather than resting on their laurels and cashing checks.
So we’re basically saying the same thing, because I’m fine with a guy like Abongo Humphrey, but I’m getting the sense that people want to see him face people higher on the totem pole.
Yep
I’m not asking for the moon. I just want to see him fight guys who will actually fight. Sapp & Sims didn’t come to fight. They came to collect a paycheck.
Guys like Humphrey & Devine are what I would consider the low end of acceptable opponents. They have similar records as Lashley but nowhere near the level of amateur combat sports accomplishments or the resources or training partners that Lashley has.
In a perfect world, he would be fighting guys like Shane Del Rosario or Scott Barrett. Guys who hold a slight edge in experience (but not an overwhelming one) and who have promising careers of their own.
I can forgive him for not fighting the Barrett’s and Del Rosario’s of the world, but for the love of God, stop fighting old guys who just show up to pick up a check.
What happens if he becomes champion and becomes favored to win every fight will he retire?
"Frank Mir had a horseshoe up his ass. I told him a year ago. I pulled it out of him and I beat him over the head with it." Brock Lesnar
does lashley really want overeem?
listening to lashley i always got the impression he wanted to take his career slow but he accepts that with so little talent in the strikeforce hw division he was probably going to be fed to the wolves no matter what.
He said either Fedor/Overeem or take it slowly.
But what he doesnt understand is a guy like Del Rasario is still taking it slowly but still stepping up in competetion.
The other thing is they will not give him a Fedor/Overeem without beating a “somebody”. Rogers had to beat Arlovski. Werdum had to beat Silva. Beating Sims isnt gonna get you a shot at Fedor/Overeem.
“The moment you fight guys who are worse than you, you might as well give up.”
Anderson Silva. Dan Hardy.
This being said, you can’t talk like that or you lose focus and don’t give 100%, cause you took the victory for granted. Some people give gsp shit for saying hardy is his biggest test, but that way of thinking is what kept him at this level.
"You hit too hard, too hard, too hard..."
This is very craft on Hardy’s part. If he only wants to fight people better than him, and fighters who fight people worse than them should “just give up,” it follows that all of Hardy’s opponents should just give up! Easy money!
by JRN on Feb 13, 2010 7:35 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
And BROCKLESNAR should have never started fighting.
by ufc4 on Feb 13, 2010 8:44 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
"The moment you fight guys who are worse than you, you might as well give up."
So GSP should just give up?
Thats the problem I have with everyone shooting holes in any possible challengers for...
Anderson or BJ…who the hell could be considered on their level in their divisions? Of course everyone is going to look like a poor challenger, because those guys (including GSP) are simply on a different level. Doesn’t mean they shouldn’t fight anyways.
The last paragraph really shows an attitude 180 degrees from what we have heard from a guy like Bobby Lashley who is basically admitting that the only time he wants to face someone better than him is when he gets to fight for a title.
You “basically” are putting words in Lashley’s mouth, or at the very least giving the most cynical reading possible of what he said.
by smoogy2 on Feb 14, 2010 12:03 AM EST reply actions 2 recs
I must've missed the Bobby Lashley Must Die meeting
because this is the second time I’ve seen his statement characterized this way, and I’d never read into it that way myself.
People here what they want to hear
And in this case, apparently “the voices in Brent Brookhouse’s head” are credible enough sources to go ahead and report that Lashley only wants inferior competition.
“Well, it’s one of two things. Either they’re going to allow me do it the way I wanna do it and build, or they’re going to give me a title shot. Either or. I would like a title shot. I guess it’s Overeem, he’s the one who has the title right now. Him or Fedor, whoever. I wanted to take my time to build up but everyone’s pushing me to get bigger and better fights so if I’m going to get bigger and better fights let’s go for the best.”
I don’t know what this sounds like to you, but to me it says if he has to fight someone better than Jason Guida or Wes Sims then he wants to go straight to the top.
FACT: Both Jason Guida and Wes Sims were not the men he was originally slated to face. Both were replacements on short notice.
And Sims was a replacement because the guy that was originally gonna fight him was such a turd that the AC wouldn’t license him to fight.
I didn’t “report” anything. You’re smart enough to know that. I made an inference from his statement that he wants either a title shot or to keep doing what he’s doing. And what he has been doing has been not taking fights that test him in any way.
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by Brent Brookhouse on Feb 14, 2010 10:33 AM EST up reply actions
Except they have.
His second opponent was supposed to be Ken Shamrock, and the replacement, Jason Guida, went the distance with him.
His third opponent, Mike Cook, was in his tenth fight, and is solid enough to have been matched against people like Daniel Puder, Warpath Villareal, Carl Seumanutafa, and Scott Lighty over his career.
His fourth opponent outweighed him by 70 pounds, and probably has the heaviest hands of anyone he had fought up to that point.
His fifth opponent was supposed to be Jimmy Ambriz, and ended up being Wes Sims.
Let’s find out who he has in mind for a sixth opponent before we castigate him for wanting to fight chumps for his entire career.
Ken Shamrock is not a test to anyone other than Ross Clifton types at this point.
Jason Guida was fine for a second fight (much better than Shamrock) and Cook was fine as a third fight. Honestly I thought the Cook fight was a great test.
Since then he has taken some awful fights. Sapp is AWFUL and not a threat to anyone but small japanese men at this point. Ambriz is AWFUL. His camp went out of their way to make it clear that they did not want a challenging fight. Several names were shot down by them who would not have been top 25 fights but would have presented much more of a challenge than Ambriz or Sims.
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by Brent Brookhouse on Feb 14, 2010 3:46 PM EST up reply actions
So you’re criticizing the Sapp fight (and as such, you’d criticize anyone who fought him at this stage of his career) six weeks after the Cook fight, as well as the Ambriz fight, because let’s be honest, if you’re preparing for Jimmy Ambriz, it’s not smart to face someone much tougher than him on a week’s notice. Fair enough, I guess, but I don’t consider Lashley more experienced than Justin Wren, Sims’ TUF opponent, and Tim Sylvia, Sims opponent-to-be.
I’ve never seen Ambriz fight, so maybe he is awful, but he comes from a wrestling background, and outweighs Bobby Lashley. He has a lot of losses to UFC and PRIDE vets, and has a draw to Ron Waterman, a guy that some have suggested as a possible Lashley opponent.
But again, he’s making a Strikeforce debut, and has been pretty outspoken about wanting to get MMA experience before stepping into deep water. Strikeforce signed him under these circumstances, so the same braintrust that matched up Mike Whitehead and Kevin Randleman because they were “names” probably didn’t want to see Lashley potentially lose to an unknown in his first appearance for the promotion. Let’s wait and see who they match him against for his next fight before we go burying him in the press.
Lotta speculation and conjecture, but not a lot of facts.
Sadly I have some facts…I just can’t share them.
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by Brent Brookhouse on Feb 14, 2010 8:38 PM EST up reply actions
Tickets!
I just got tickets to this event, my first MMA event ever, and this card is stacked top to bottom, sweeeeet
by Patrick John McGreevy on Feb 21, 2010 9:10 PM EST reply actions
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