Technique Retrospective: Josh Koscheck's Punching and Freddie Roach's Prediction
by Brent Brookhouse on Dec 8, 2010 11:05 AM EST
in MMA Technique
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While MMA fans tend to think Georges St. Pierre spends more time training with Freddie Roach than is accurate, Freddie does have a good grasp on the striking game of GSP. He also can break down punching technique as well as almost anyone on the planet. So when he talked to Fight Hub TV about Josh Koscheck's technique and how Georges could beat him at UFC 124 people should have listened. From the interview:
"Koscheck jumps in from far away," Roach told FightHubtv.com. "I told (Georges) to not pull away from that and beat that on the counter. I told him, 'I think you'll knock him out with the left hook in that fight.'"
That "jumping in" was never more clear than in Koscheck's fight with Paulo Thiago at UFC 95. From a piece I did on how Koscheck's poor technique in that fight:
Josh starts by lunging when he throws the jab, his feet leave the ground as he starts to throw the punch. There is no reason to "jump in" with this punch for starters. It isn't like a superman punch, you're not gaining any momentum on the jab by hopping forward as you throw it. A jab is a snap punch, the power on it comes from pumping it and snapping it back.
...
Looking at his body positioning I can only guess that he was going to try to wing a big overhand right behind the bunny hop.
Lastly, watch Josh's eyes as he throws the jab. Where are they? Is he locked in on his target in Paulo's head? Is he locked in on Paulo's chest and shoulders to follow any potential counterpunch movement? No, he is looking downward somewhere between Thiago's legs and the ground. Josh gave himself no chance to see a punch coming in return and in the end it came down to bad jab vs. solid uppercut. Guess which one wins that clash damn near every time?
A .gif of the punch along with more on the technique of "Kos" after the jump.
Here's the punch in question. While a fighter should absolutely step into their jab, Koscheck is off the ground as he comes in:
From looking back at Josh's fights since the Thiago fight it does seem to me that he keeps his eyes up better now and jumps in less. He still tends to jump in occasionally and Roach is right that there is a moment when Koscheck tries to quickly change distance that he can be countered. The best example of the left hand when Koscheck tries to come in aggressively was in his UFC 90 bout with Thiago Alves:
The other place where I think you beat Koscheck standing is off his jab. He throws it and lets it hang, pawing more than snapping. Sometimes he's not even throwing the punch, he's just reaching his left out as a distance finder. I know this isn't unheard of in MMA, but it leaves him open to strikes if you trust your wrestling enough to fire shots at him.
I think it's safe to say that Koscheck is a better fighter now than he was against Alves and Thiago when he made these mistakes. The question is if he can have these flaws trained out of him or if they're built in to his fighting instincts. I've seen hundreds of fighters with correctable flaws that never made the correction in a fight despite being trained on it because they just can't get away from their instincts.
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Nice write up, never noticed that
The Alves fight looks like he was winding up the right hand. Since then has he still made those habits during the Trigg, Johnson and Daley fight? It’s possible he could actually be working on this.
Roach amazes me as a coachtoo that he can pinpoint these little techniques. Him and Emmanuel Steward who I’m glad isn’t biased when he commentates for HBO.
They made a video game about Yakuzas. It’s called Yakuza. And it’s about Yakuza
that thiago fight referee has no idea what he is doing
kos had recovered right away.
by shamo84 on Dec 8, 2010 11:25 AM EST reply actions 1 recs
i hope this is sarcasm. Kos was so out on his feet that he let Braz Cop pimp slap him.
Colin Cowherd is more annoying than the Progressive radio commercials.
by Austin Martin on Dec 8, 2010 11:43 AM EST up reply actions
So happy GSP is finally going to get a finish. Its been a while. And in front of his biggest fans too. Kos is gonna get raped.
Mike Goldberg: "You know Joe, When Matt and his brother Mark Hughes were growing up, they would pound each other behind the barn."
by xFenixKnightx on Dec 8, 2010 11:26 AM EST reply actions 3 recs
I'm sorry thats too damn cute
They made a video game about Yakuzas. It’s called Yakuza. And it’s about Yakuza
I know =P
Mike Goldberg: "You know Joe, When Matt and his brother Mark Hughes were growing up, they would pound each other behind the barn."
by xFenixKnightx on Dec 8, 2010 11:33 AM EST up reply actions
I still don't understand how PC this website is
and yet everyone thinks using “rape” as hyperbole for one getting their ass kicked is ok. Its NOT.
Colin Cowherd is more annoying than the Progressive radio commercials.
by Austin Martin on Dec 8, 2010 11:42 AM EST up reply actions 4 recs
i've been struggling with that
we’re guided by SBN’s corporate policies which focus on slurs and name calling. we’re fucking trying man!
Follow me on Twitter @KidNate
by Nate Wilcox on Dec 8, 2010 11:46 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
much appreciated for your efforts! I just wish everyone had the understanding that its not a word that one can throw around like its a huge joke. The word has a very profound effect on some people.
Colin Cowherd is more annoying than the Progressive radio commercials.
by Austin Martin on Dec 8, 2010 11:49 AM EST up reply actions
and also, I wasn’t stating that its a fault on your behalf.. by “this website” i meant it seems like most posters have a pretty PC grasp on most things, but this isn’t one of them
Colin Cowherd is more annoying than the Progressive radio commercials.
by Austin Martin on Dec 8, 2010 11:51 AM EST up reply actions
But look how cute that little kitty is. =D
Mike Goldberg: "You know Joe, When Matt and his brother Mark Hughes were growing up, they would pound each other behind the barn."
by xFenixKnightx on Dec 8, 2010 11:55 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
And that
is the key distinction. We manage to tiptoe around the potential minefields on a lot of otherwise touchy subjects around here. Well, for the most part.
"Sometimes I wonder if the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on, or by imbeciles who really mean it."
-Mark Twain
"If I tell you I'm good, you would probably think I'm boasting. If I tell you I'm no good, you know I'm lying..."
-Bruce Lee
by The American Ronin on Dec 8, 2010 12:11 PM EST up reply actions
Ok we're missing the point.
Cute kitty states that George St. Pierre will commit an act of totalitarian type ownage against Josh Koschek because of his poor technique.
They made a video game about Yakuzas. It’s called Yakuza. And it’s about Yakuza
Ownage? So now we’re bringing slavery into this?
"You should work for 15 minutes to knock your opponent out, submit him, or improve your position to give yourself the best chance of doing either." - Dan Hardy
by Day Man on Dec 8, 2010 12:49 PM EST up reply actions 4 recs
........touche, Day Man. Touche.
They made a video game about Yakuzas. It’s called Yakuza. And it’s about Yakuza
Agreed
I have no issue with the use in that context, not sure why others do.
"Sometimes I wonder if the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on, or by imbeciles who really mean it."
-Mark Twain
"If I tell you I'm good, you would probably think I'm boasting. If I tell you I'm no good, you know I'm lying..."
-Bruce Lee
by The American Ronin on Dec 8, 2010 12:50 PM EST up reply actions
I think it’s because the word rape is culturally accepted as meaning an invasive, demoralizing act that is collocated with the idea of or automatic visual imagery of a woman (or man) being abused.
If you asked someone what rape meant that’s what they would come up with and while the context in this case doesn’t provoke that imagery, it’s the sociocultural identification of the term and therefore many people find offensive.
But it pretty much goes back to why people had an issue with Rogan using fa**ot.
Rape is not a word used to subjugate or oppress a particular group of people.
by Sqwibbs on Dec 8, 2010 4:25 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I think that when you use it lightly like this, you’re offending a huge amount of women who have been raped. I have a friend who was raped, and it was no funny thing, and if she were to hear people trivializing it the way the word is trivialized here she’d feel hurt.
Trying to justify saying it here just because the context is different does not make it okay. Saying N____r in any context doesn’t really make it right, and likewise with any gay slur. If any guy here had any inkling of the trauma that rape victims go through, it would absolutely be the last term they used to describe something that would happen in a fight.
And at the very best, using the term rape in this context is just plain old low-class.
You're not getting it.
The N-word is a racial slur. It is used by one race to oppress another. Rape is a word describing a violent crime, just like kill or murder. It is not directed at a stereotype or type of people. It is absolutely incompatible with the N-word, and comparing it to a racial slur is lubricious. While it may bring up painful memories for some people, the word rape is not used to oppress a person.
I know a few women that have been raped (statistically, everyone does, whether they know it or not) and I know that they use the word in the same context as it’s being used here.
By the way, rape is not a thing that only happens to women. It isn’t even related to a persons sexual orientation. Rape is the act of imposing your will and power over another person. The sexual act is simply a means to an end. There is some pretty troubling evidence that it happens to men much more often then people think, but is never reported because of the stigma of being seen as gay.
Well, you didn’t get it either, or I didn’t explain myself correctly. I specifically said that rape is different than racial, because the racial term is unacceptable in almost any context, whereas rape is simply a term to describe something powerful and unnerving.
And the reality of today is that it’s a term that carries with it sexual depravity. A woman who has been raped wouldn’t be offended by the term in certain contexts, like the raping of the environment or whatever, but would be offended when it’s used to describe, oh let’s say, a fighter that just lost pretty badly.
Think of it this way. Imagine that you were molested as a child by some evil dude. Then growing up you have a friend that throws the term around liberally, like whenever he thinks someone is being a goof. Now you could say “that wouldn’t bother me”, which is fine, but that’s the exception, and most normal people would feel a tremendous amount of stress at that, and the sayer would feel embarrassment.
So you know some rape victims, would you honestly say “that dude got raped” if you were watching a lopsided fight and not feel awkward/embarrassed about it?
Maybe I should, I dunno. I’m actually not that serious of a person, but ever since I became friends with a co-worker that shared her experience with me, the whole thing just sort of stinks to me now I guess. And when I hear it I cringe because it’s such a damned serious thing.
They don't seem to enforce that much
on some of their other mma sites…just sayin’
Which is why, for the most part, I stay away from there – I deal with enough idiots and morons in everyday life (and I mean those terms in the old school DSM-II psychology sense…)
"Sometimes I wonder if the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on, or by imbeciles who really mean it."
-Mark Twain
"If I tell you I'm good, you would probably think I'm boasting. If I tell you I'm no good, you know I'm lying..."
-Bruce Lee
by The American Ronin on Dec 8, 2010 12:10 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Idiots? How dare you, sir. Don't you mean academically impaired? You have offended my co-workers who are that very thing.
by Brandon Starr on Dec 8, 2010 1:02 PM EST up reply actions
Right! Those are originally psychology terms, although no longer used much as such
Mental deficiency used to be more finely classified using the following technical terms that later began to be abused by the rest of society (5):
IQ Range Classification
70-80 Borderline deficiency
50-69 Moron
20-49 Imbecile
below 20 Idiot
These are now largely obsolete and mental deficiency is now generally called mental retardation. The following is the currently used classification of retardation in the USA (5):
IQ Range Classification
50-69 Mild
35-49 Moderate
20-34 Severe
below 20 Profound
Moreover, “educable mentally retarded” is roughly equivalent to mild mental retardation, and “trainable” mentally retarded is roughly equivalent to moderate (5). The DSM now requires an assessment of a person’s adaptive functioning as an additional criterion for labeling someone retarded. IQ is not enough. Maybe the same sort of thing should be done for labeling somebody a genius.
"Sometimes I wonder if the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on, or by imbeciles who really mean it."
-Mark Twain
"If I tell you I'm good, you would probably think I'm boasting. If I tell you I'm no good, you know I'm lying..."
-Bruce Lee
by The American Ronin on Dec 8, 2010 1:06 PM EST up reply actions
IIRC, these terms went out of use in the 60’s or early 70’s. See dad, that second major paid off after all…lol…
"Sometimes I wonder if the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on, or by imbeciles who really mean it."
-Mark Twain
"If I tell you I'm good, you would probably think I'm boasting. If I tell you I'm no good, you know I'm lying..."
-Bruce Lee
by The American Ronin on Dec 8, 2010 1:09 PM EST up reply actions
Perhaps in casual conversation
that is true, and people often replace “mental retardation” with “mentally challenged” but mental retardation is still the correct clinical term for anyone with an IQ below 70.
"Sometimes I wonder if the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on, or by imbeciles who really mean it."
-Mark Twain
"If I tell you I'm good, you would probably think I'm boasting. If I tell you I'm no good, you know I'm lying..."
-Bruce Lee
by The American Ronin on Dec 8, 2010 1:51 PM EST up reply actions
I'm going to be honest with you.
They (who the fuck are they and why do they know everything?!) say you learn something new every day. I had no idea that moron and idiot were actually used as IQ classifications. Kind of funny actually! Based on that information, I would say I work mostly with people that fall into the “moderate” range.
by Brandon Starr on Dec 8, 2010 1:13 PM EST up reply actions
where would full retard fall?
and since retard also just mean to move backwards. why does it offend people? I am asking the group. feel free to answer.
"I wish Anthony Pace was my father just so I could claim to be the fruit of his loins."
"Even Hulkamania wouldn't get you out of this hold"
"True strength is not always shown through victory. Stand up, try again and display strength of heart."
by the-gentle-way on Dec 8, 2010 1:17 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Retard generally means to slow or delay, not to move backwards.
"Sometimes I wonder if the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on, or by imbeciles who really mean it."
-Mark Twain
"If I tell you I'm good, you would probably think I'm boasting. If I tell you I'm no good, you know I'm lying..."
-Bruce Lee
by The American Ronin on Dec 8, 2010 1:56 PM EST up reply actions
No way. I always thought an imbecile was lower than an idiot.
I never thought medical science would prove me wrong.
Yeah I used to work for the State Archives and I was reading some medical records from the 1800’s. I was like “man they were blunt back in the day”. We found a note from a lawyer to his secretary asking for a bottle of whiskey some socks and a shirt. The whiskey was half the price of the other items! I hate sin taxes!!!!
It's official. Les Miles DOES NOT have a deal with the devil. He beat him Nov. 6th, 24-21.
technical terms that later began to be abused by the rest of society (5):
its weird, but i always think they were already abusive when they were in the medical context, its just everyone started using them in the pejorative sense that they always already contained.
'if you don't have humility as a fighter, fighting will bring humility to you...'
Its not unlike what has happened to “retard” and “retarded” today where they have became part of the lexicon as a general use insult, having nothing to do with their original meaning – much as the word “gay” has.
Listen to any conversation amongst teens today and you will here both used within 5 minutes, and in a context having nothing to do with intelligence (or mental state in general) or homosexuality respectively.
"Sometimes I wonder if the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on, or by imbeciles who really mean it."
-Mark Twain
"If I tell you I'm good, you would probably think I'm boasting. If I tell you I'm no good, you know I'm lying..."
-Bruce Lee
by The American Ronin on Dec 8, 2010 5:08 PM EST up reply actions
Like Kenny Powers
and the word ‘Mexican’.
He uses it like an insult, even while in Mexico or talking to a Mexican.
=/
Mike Goldberg: "You know Joe, When Matt and his brother Mark Hughes were growing up, they would pound each other behind the barn."
by xFenixKnightx on Dec 8, 2010 11:48 AM EST up reply actions
I can prove to you that rape is funny. Picture Porky Pig raping Elmer Fudd.
-george carlin rip
by wilderdude on Dec 8, 2010 11:49 AM EST up reply actions 5 recs
really? i wouldn’t like to assume anything, but you’ve obviously never been effected by it.
Colin Cowherd is more annoying than the Progressive radio commercials.
by Austin Martin on Dec 8, 2010 11:52 AM EST up reply actions
Not personally no. But among my extended circle of friends, possibly.
What if someone had said, “You gonna get murdered.” Is that any better? That’s a horrifically awful thing that affects people and families. Should “murder” also be a no-no word? Drawing the line for offense these days is getting out of control.
Maybe I’m just a little too easy-going…
by nastyem on Dec 8, 2010 12:00 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I am immensely proud of how my friend handled it
Counselor – This has been an ordeal that will affect you for years and years.
Friend – Why should I let 5 minutes of bad sex ruin the rest of my life?
Guillotine.
by iiowyn on Dec 8, 2010 3:45 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
Rape does not always have sexual connotations...
rape1
[reyp] Show IPA
noun, verb, raped, rap·ing.
–noun
1.
the unlawful compelling of a woman through physical force or duress to have sexual intercourse.
2.
any act of sexual intercourse that is forced upon a person.
3.
statutory rape.
4.
an act of plunder, violent seizure, or abuse; despoliation; violation: the rape of the countryside.
5.
Archaic . the act of seizing and carrying off by force.
by truck on Dec 8, 2010 11:56 AM EST up reply actions 6 recs
thank you
its ridiculous how people want to get carried away when it has been pointed out time and time again that OBVIOUSLY we aren’t implying koscheck is going be statutorily raped.
Only because
he is already at the age of consent…
"Sometimes I wonder if the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on, or by imbeciles who really mean it."
-Mark Twain
"If I tell you I'm good, you would probably think I'm boasting. If I tell you I'm no good, you know I'm lying..."
-Bruce Lee
by The American Ronin on Dec 8, 2010 12:12 PM EST up reply actions 3 recs
Gratsi.
Mike Goldberg: "You know Joe, When Matt and his brother Mark Hughes were growing up, they would pound each other behind the barn."
by xFenixKnightx on Dec 8, 2010 12:05 PM EST up reply actions
Except words meanings’ aren’t determined on a piece of paper in a book. They are determined by people and culture, and in American culture 99% of the time rape does not refer to definition 4 from freakin webster’s dictionary (which, by the way, makes it the 4th most important definition).
Obviously in this context he is not saying GSP is going to literally sexually rape Koscheck, however neither is it as squeaky clean as you would have us believe. In American English, it’s vulgar slang, and it’s about the crudest possible way you could express the idea of “destroy” or “own.”
by frosnt1 on Dec 8, 2010 12:20 PM EST up reply actions 3 recs
thanks, i was beginning to think I was alone on this…
Colin Cowherd is more annoying than the Progressive radio commercials.
by Austin Martin on Dec 8, 2010 12:21 PM EST up reply actions
Rape is a crude act, but I never thought of the word as crude.
Sure, some people consider the word to be a little loaded (especially lawyers) but I have never ever ever heard that “rape” is a taboo term not to be used in the non sexual context.
The reason it is primarily used in the context of sexual assault these days has nothing to do with the fact that is the proper use of the word, it has to do with the fact that we aren’t out there raping and pillaging villages.
So you agree that the definition you supplied is not in use? I mean if he said “raping the countryside” is about the only situation in which it would not be considered slang in this age. Any other context and it’s pretty much vulgar. If you have never ever ever heard that using “rape” in this context is taboo then I don’t know where you’ve been living but just imagine the backlash if a public official were to say “ya, I really think my team is gonna rape yours this saturday!”
It was my understanding that rape always and still meant:
"an act of plunder, violent seizure, or abuse"
This even makes sense in the context of sexual assault.
well they would probably say my team plans on having sex with your team this Saturday.....
and it will not be consensual.
by Brandon Starr on Dec 8, 2010 1:16 PM EST up reply actions
...
It's official. Les Miles DOES NOT have a deal with the devil. He beat him Nov. 6th, 24-21.
by DayGeaux on Dec 8, 2010 1:21 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
FUCK YES!
HAND BANANA!
TONIGHT….. YOU
Whatever. Just ban me. You're all gay. - Josh Grant
Thisredengine and Marta Gallo happily married June 2012
I want my name to be Spaghetti
It's official. Les Miles DOES NOT have a deal with the devil. He beat him Nov. 6th, 24-21.
All I know is ball.... and good....
and rape
Whatever. Just ban me. You're all gay. - Josh Grant
Thisredengine and Marta Gallo happily married June 2012
“See, i use to think rape was funny..till you’ve been raped. I think that is what hell is like. You know, constantly raped by dogs. I don’t know if I believe in God, but ya know, I’m pretty sure he hates me..”
You are all UFC plants.
Ding ding ding
Part of the thing for me is sensitivity to rape victims; it can be really upsetting for a rape victim to have their experience be compared, intentionally or not, to someone losing in a sporting event.
by Tedd Welch on Dec 8, 2010 12:42 PM EST up reply actions 3 recs
In the context of a sports discussion 99% of the time it does refer to definition 4. Also there are many more crude ways to express the idea – this one just happens to have a very large effect on the people that are offended by the use of the word.
"You should work for 15 minutes to knock your opponent out, submit him, or improve your position to give yourself the best chance of doing either." - Dan Hardy
its not about being offended by the word, its about not granting legitimacy to the term for it to be used and its context and meaning generalised to a level of acceptance even in some arguably ‘divorced’ context, i.e. ‘hey man, no I didn’t mean I’m going to hurt your daughter’s soccer team in a sick, selfish and degrading violence… I meant definition 4!’
'if you don't have humility as a fighter, fighting will bring humility to you...'
As Robin Williams once said (likely after stealing it from someone else)
“You know, the Confederate flag is just a symbol of states’ rights. And a swastika is just a Tibetan good luck charm!”
Words and symbols change over time. it’s perception, not literal definition.
I rarely tweet
I less-rarely write
"I ain't having it" - Buster Posey, hosing folks down
let's go back and start calling black people niggers then.
and if somebody is upset about it we’ll just tell them that the term is historically derived from the spanish word ‘negro’ (black!) and that it really isn’t as bad as they think it is.
Go big red!
by pornflake on Dec 8, 2010 12:37 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I have never heard anyone get upset about the word rape before this guy.
Even rape victims. That is a major difference.
It's a big issue in some circles
I know a rape victim who starts crying when she hears “rape” be misused, for example.
I guess I missed a memo somewhere...
In all my living (granted that is only 27 years) I had never seen anything that said “rape” was one of those taboo terms that shouldn’t be used in its original form. It was my understanding that “rape” outside of the legal context always had and still meant “an act of plunder, violent seizure, or abuse”.
I also know a couple of rape victims on a very personal level and have done a lot of work with battered women’s shelters and never been informed or picked up that this was a hot button issue.
I hate anyone who would forcedly rape a person and would be more than glad to see any and every single rapist put to death. I am not condoning the act, I am just saying I never heard that using the word was an issue.
Then again
you’re Canadian…8-)
"Sometimes I wonder if the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on, or by imbeciles who really mean it."
-Mark Twain
"If I tell you I'm good, you would probably think I'm boasting. If I tell you I'm no good, you know I'm lying..."
-Bruce Lee
by The American Ronin on Dec 8, 2010 1:10 PM EST up reply actions
^ This is the definition of ‘ignorance is bliss.’
It's official. Les Miles DOES NOT have a deal with the devil. He beat him Nov. 6th, 24-21.
Too cold, but I’d like the women.
It's official. Les Miles DOES NOT have a deal with the devil. He beat him Nov. 6th, 24-21.
Not colder than Winterpeg
where I live it gets down to -40 degrees with wind chill on a semi regular basis. I don’t mind the snow and I love mountains.
Damn places shouldn't get that cold
Yeah i’m more used to 90 degee weather. People are bitching that it’s cold down here . Low for today was in the +30’s
It's official. Les Miles DOES NOT have a deal with the devil. He beat him Nov. 6th, 24-21.
Australia gets my vote – Byron Bay.
"Sometimes I wonder if the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on, or by imbeciles who really mean it."
-Mark Twain
"If I tell you I'm good, you would probably think I'm boasting. If I tell you I'm no good, you know I'm lying..."
-Bruce Lee
by The American Ronin on Dec 8, 2010 2:04 PM EST up reply actions
Huh
I’ve seen it talked about as a Triggering term for years on feminist sites, and (it feels like) more and more throughout the internet as a whole lately.
I didn't mean to say you were wrong either
It’s just funny that our experiences have been divergent.
Actually, “rape” isn’t used inside a legal context anymore. The term (at least in Canada) is “sexual assault”.
It’s not that it’s a sensitive term in and of itself, it’s sensitive when it’s taken lightly. My friend, a rape victim, is a changed person because of getting raped.
She can no longer sleep through the night. She’s feels permanently afraid of African Americans because one raped her, she goes through panic attacks, she no longer enjoys just being out and feeling safe, she’s in therapy every week. Her life is completely changed. So it’s not that the term is bad, but making light of it can be truly offensive.
Imagine if your brother, or rather, your father was a convicted child molester. And someone you know likes to refer to people they don’t like as child molesters. Don’t you think that would be something you’d rather not made light of?
well, I don't get upset about the use of 'rape' either, but I can see how it offends people.
i generally try to avoid using it. same goes for ‘faggot’.
Go big red!
what i’ve found with the ‘f’ word is that if you use ‘ph’ instead of ‘f’ it shows that you don’t mean it as a hate/slur word. helps to get the proper meaning across.
WTF!?
1) There are more then one current definition of the word Rape.
2) Rape is a crime that can be committed against anyone, not a specific group of people.
Would you be arguing if someone said “GSP is going to murder Kos!” Would you be saying, “what if you say that around someone whose love one has been murdered???”
thank you.
I always wonder why it is acceptable to say murder/kill, but rape when used in that context gets so much outrage. I personally don’t use it, but it seems la bit silly.
"In this fight, Anderson showed he was human," Nogueira said. "He showed he could be weak. But he showed he is a fighter and he brings something from his heart. It was beautiful."
by Broke Lesnar on Dec 8, 2010 4:11 PM EST up reply actions
WTF!?
When a child or young person first learns the real meaning of the definition of the word rape, it is a powerful word whose meanings are (hopefully) definite and understood in the context of how much horror human beings can inflict upon themselves. To understand this and then see that word on a poster or forum or something, they will not think, ‘oh they just mean the one where its like just deeply invasive and violent… not the sexual one that’s deeply invasive and violent.’
in terms of what you are saying about murder, i think it became acceptable a while ago and its a bit of a sad imo, when these terms lose their meaning, it lessens the impact of the reality of the term – meaning we are slightly more impoverished with our language and concepts.
'if you don't have humility as a fighter, fighting will bring humility to you...'
Really? What was the point of what was said?
The word is used specifically because it is a powerful word. That’s the point. Same with “Murder ’em/Kill ’em.”
Really?
Read the post dude. The point is pretty clear. It’s a heavy term that carries with it sexual baggage and is understood that way. When such a heavy term is used in a light context, the interpretation can be offensive.
The rest of the point being that it’s also sad that the term murder and kill have been diluted. It’s a fundamental understanding of signifiers and signifieds, and how we dilute our ability to express ourselves by using words outside of their defined purpose.
But I’m just reiterating so I’m confused at your confusion. The point is right there man.
no u got it wrong
If u take the T off of faggot, it is then a term of endearment. Like " hey Faggo what u doing?" see way less offensive.
i prefer "feg"
When I'm on the mic it goes down, CINTRON
-Joell Ortiz
by The Lethal Haze on Dec 8, 2010 3:50 PM EST up reply actions
well you're hearing it now.
'if you don't have humility as a fighter, fighting will bring humility to you...'
Oh c’mon now man?? That’s some ridiculous shit right there trying to imply that rape doesn’t necessarily mean forced sex.
We live in descriptivist society, the peoples’ usage becomes the definition, and not some society that prescribes it. When someone says they were raped, you know exactly what they’re saying, and you don’t try and clarify it. Saying “The rape of the countryside” or something similar has been eliminated from use for decades now. When you say rape, you’re talking about a man forcing himself on another, probably another women, unless specified “prison rape”.
Had you been close to someone, or had any kind of idea for what rape victims go through, you wouldn’t be deliberately acting like a complete moron.
Historically it is
The word has a longstanding history of being used in a non-sexual sense. Like, hundreds (bordering on thousands) of years long. In that context, it means something analogous to looting or despoiling, especially by an invading army. In other words, exactly the sort of thing that xFenixKnightx was joking about. So, you know, lighten up.
That’s pure BS right there man.
The simple fact that people on here are trying to convince themselves that Rape has a bunch of other meanings goes beyond beligerent and exposes something way worse.
The usage you’re speaking of only comes up in literature, and even then rarely, mostly written several decades ago. The idea that casual connotations of the term rape means something other than the common accepted definition is scarily beligerent. It’s shocking.
It doesn’t have a bunch of meanings. It has 2, and one of them is derived from the other. The original meaning of the word is to take what shouldn’t be taken. Which is why it was used to describe a forced sexual act.
Whatever you may think, the word is still commonly used to describe the destruction of the environment, and the consumption of natural resources.
Well, it seems like you’re trying to convince yourself of something that is blatantly false. Despite this word being used to describe the things you mention, it will always carry with it the underlying connotation of a woman being forcibly taken by a man. That’s the reality. I know that historically it’s not the case. I’m and English major and I"ve read plenty of literature with the word rape used in a traditional non-sexual sense. But currently, the sexual meaning has taken over any sort of contextualization that existed before. I understand exactly what you’re saying, but it just simply isn’t said without both parties’ understanding of it having become a sexual term.
lol
"I wish Anthony Pace was my father just so I could claim to be the fruit of his loins."
"Even Hulkamania wouldn't get you out of this hold"
"True strength is not always shown through victory. Stand up, try again and display strength of heart."
by the-gentle-way on Dec 8, 2010 1:08 PM EST up reply actions
I never noticed how out of position Kos was in the Thiago fight
I remember Thiago saying how he drilled that same punch combination over and over and over leading up to the fight. His trainers must have seen that Kos loves to hop in with his chin up, and thought that it was Paulo’s best chance for a KO.
Colin Cowherd is more annoying than the Progressive radio commercials.
GSP can lose
Just think of all the crazy things that have happened in the past year. Silva gets dominated and just barley survives, Fedor losses, BJ losses (twice), Lyoto losses(twice) things that were unthinkable a year ago happened not say it will happen just that considering everything it shouldn’t be a huge shock.
nope
Colin Cowherd is more annoying than the Progressive radio commercials.
by Austin Martin on Dec 8, 2010 12:28 PM EST up reply actions
It certainly could happen
and I am of the opinion that Kos is the biggest threat to GSP, but it is rather unlikely.
"Sometimes I wonder if the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on, or by imbeciles who really mean it."
-Mark Twain
"If I tell you I'm good, you would probably think I'm boasting. If I tell you I'm no good, you know I'm lying..."
-Bruce Lee
by The American Ronin on Dec 8, 2010 12:14 PM EST up reply actions
Exactly
Can’t say I would be too surprised, not because of his skills, just because of what has happened of late in MMA…
"Sometimes I wonder if the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on, or by imbeciles who really mean it."
-Mark Twain
"If I tell you I'm good, you would probably think I'm boasting. If I tell you I'm no good, you know I'm lying..."
-Bruce Lee
by The American Ronin on Dec 8, 2010 12:54 PM EST up reply actions
All of the underdog magic for the year has been used up.
Keep Firing, Assholes!
Time to put some meat in your pain sandwich.
Just think of all the crazy things that have happened in the past year. Silva gets dominated and just barley survives, Fedor losses, BJ losses (twice), Lyoto losses(twice)things that were unthinkable a year ago happened not say it will happen just that considering everything it shouldn’t be a huge shock.
Fixed.
by Tech Fall 171 on Dec 8, 2010 12:42 PM EST up reply actions
Were not both of Machida's losses
in 2010?
"Sometimes I wonder if the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on, or by imbeciles who really mean it."
-Mark Twain
"If I tell you I'm good, you would probably think I'm boasting. If I tell you I'm no good, you know I'm lying..."
-Bruce Lee
by The American Ronin on Dec 8, 2010 12:55 PM EST up reply actions
Yes, but honestly you can’t call the loss to Shogun “crazy” or “an upset” because he was expected to lose. But the Rampage fight he should have and most expected him to win.
by Tech Fall 171 on Dec 8, 2010 1:10 PM EST up reply actions
Expected to lose by whom?
Damn near all the writers on this site picked Lyoto to win the rematch by decision and called the first fight a glitch?
Some revisionist history is going on here.
People do not like to think. If one thinks, one must reach conclusions. Conclusions are not always pleasant.
- Helen Keller
One of the reason's why Lidell had to retire
Always had bad boxing technique and it finally just caught up to him which he never corrected. Freddie Roach hit this one on the button and I am sure that he’s pointed out a lot more of Kos’s boxing flaws to GSP than just this that he doesn’t want to give away. Haven’t seen GSP knock someone out in a while and I agree that KO from a left hook or a straight right is very likely. Kos is not going to be able to take GSP down so he is going to be forced to strike with him, and GSP is a way better striker.
I'm no professional but I do have some boxing and muay thai experience, and to me...
it seems like a lot of MMA fighters just focus on trying to block these wild windmill punches (which is necessary obviously) rather than realize the obvious lack in technique and the holes it leaves for counters. It’s smart that GSP is working with Roach on this because Kos’s punching style will be easy for Roach to pick apart.
I agree
I am far from an expert in striking, but seeing the evolution in the Reem’s striking game from K-1 is why I am so excited to get him back in MMA, where JDS, who I love, passes for elite striking.
"Sometimes I wonder if the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on, or by imbeciles who really mean it."
-Mark Twain
"If I tell you I'm good, you would probably think I'm boasting. If I tell you I'm no good, you know I'm lying..."
-Bruce Lee
by The American Ronin on Dec 8, 2010 1:02 PM EST up reply actions
With all do respect
Bronze at the Pan Am games ain’t nuthin to sneeze at
When I'm on the mic it goes down, CINTRON
-Joell Ortiz
by The Lethal Haze on Dec 8, 2010 3:54 PM EST up reply actions
Listen up - Diaz vs Daley is coming! Woohooo!
I will always back the Englishman - from Hardy to Daley to Hathaway - because we are an island nation and I am an ex-pat living in California. Lee Murray comes from the same village as me. Where I live now Fabricio Werdum is a neighbor, as is Bruce Buffer. I am also a Diaz fan!
How much does that have to do with this thread? GTFO.
by Tech Fall 171 on Dec 8, 2010 1:18 PM EST up reply actions
About as much as the word "Rape"
They made a video game about Yakuzas. It’s called Yakuza. And it’s about Yakuza
by Krimson on Dec 8, 2010 1:27 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
If only there was a function to irrelavantize or remove tangent topics
they add to the comment count with having noting to do with the original subject.
People do not like to think. If one thinks, one must reach conclusions. Conclusions are not always pleasant.
- Helen Keller
With BE you take the good and the bad tangents. There was a pretty good one over H.P. Lovecraft the other day.
What the site needs is a way to collapse the threads that you don’t want to see anymore.
by Rufford on Dec 8, 2010 2:03 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
Lovercraft lol
what was it about and what thread was it in?
People do not like to think. If one thinks, one must reach conclusions. Conclusions are not always pleasant.
- Helen Keller
http://www.bloodyelbow.com/2010/12/7/1861626/ufc-124-georges-st-pierre-is-afraid-of-josh-koscheck
He was quoted in the original post but still a tangent.
thanks
for whatever reason I thought it was going to be about how profoundly racist he was.
anywho back to actual work.
People do not like to think. If one thinks, one must reach conclusions. Conclusions are not always pleasant.
- Helen Keller
Rec'd and agreed with
They made a video game about Yakuzas. It’s called Yakuza. And it’s about Yakuza
"He also can break down punching technique as well as almost anyone on the planet."
I take umbrage with the use of almost in this line from the article.
Roach is good...VERY good...
but there are better boxing trainers in the world at finding and exploiting holes in punching technique. Roach is a great trainer who makes the most out of what his guys have
Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
MMA Editor - SBNation.com
by Brent Brookhouse on Dec 9, 2010 10:27 AM EST up reply actions
Who?
Which active boxing trainers in the world are clearly better at finding and exploiting holes?
Roach is known for his strength in the fundamentals and finding weaknesses in his fighters (tuning his fighters) and opponents’ technique (successful gameplans exploiting those weaknesses). Is saying “as well as anyone” somehow incorrect?
Original post was mostly a joke, but technically the stance isn’t.
With 2010 being the year of the upset
I am surprised by the fanboy proclaimed aura of invincibility that GSP still has.
The man is facing the biggest threat to his title and people are already acting like its a forgone conclusion that he will win.
I will admit that Kos has a punchers chance and leaves enough openings for Georges to finish him. But to sit back and act like the fight is in the bag is crazy.
Remember when Roach said BJ had the best boxing in MMA? And now look where the Prodigy is now,.
People do not like to think. If one thinks, one must reach conclusions. Conclusions are not always pleasant.
- Helen Keller
You mean the BJ Penn
that is coming off a huge KO victory against a Matt Hughes that has only been KO’d in 3 out of 53 fights, once to BJ, once by GSP, and once to an over-the-weight limit and at the time #2 ranked Thiago Alves? The one who a majority of MMA fans agree soundly beat Frankie Edgar the first time and lost to him the 2nd time mostly due to Edgar’s fantastic takedowns and speed? The BJ Penn who has won a majority of his recent outings due to his almost preternatural boxing technique? Yeah. Freddie Roach was way off on that one.
Also, Koscheck is a far cry from “the biggest threat to his title.” Koscheck has huge holes in his standup (see Thiago, Paulo and Alves, Thiago), his takedowns are solid but not out of GSP’s universe, and frankly, he was only given this fight because the UFC doesn’t want to give Fitch another shot while they wait for Jake Shields to heal and prepare. I’d argue that both Fitch and Alves are superior to Koscheck and were much more dangerous challengers. He could potentially win, true, mma is unpredictable, but I wouldn’t bet too much on it.
"The mat is my church, the ground is my heaven, Jiu-Jitsu is my religion. And once you hit the ground you're in my world..."
GSP will pick Kos apart standing
I think Kos’s talk is all just a smokescreen, and he’s going to abandon his striking and turn it into a wrestling match.
"I am a man who pisses largely and frequently, which they say is a sign of great mental activity" -Henry Miller-
Contributor at cagepages.com Come check us out.
I've always thought that Kos's striking was garbage
In addition to his yip-y footwork, he loads his right hand way too much. He hits hard. But strong guys who throw telegraphed punches always hit hard.
Tatum: I think he's a good man. I like him. I got nothing against him, but I'm definitely gonna make orphans of his children.
But he’s so strong and quick that when it lands it’s brutal. Anyone with decent defense shouldn’t have a problem with it. What you need is reach and speed, and GSP has both of those so I don’t think the standup is going to be a problem. That said, if Kos just decides to wade through lots of jabs and straights to land one, I suppose anything could happen. He’s a tough cookie, and GSP doesn’t really have a ton of power.
GSP hits a lot harder than people give him credit for. Remember, before becoming primarily a wrestler/grappler, he was known as a stand-up fighter. He doesn’t have “face-melting” power like say a Carwin but he packs a lot of power in his punches and kicks nevertheless when he chooses to strike.
by dreamers_12345 on Dec 9, 2010 12:02 AM EST up reply actions
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