Keith Kizer Is More Right Than Joe Rogan About MMA Judging

Isn’t John McCarthy, universally declared as one of the best refs in the world, not currently licensed as an NSAC referee?

In a mailed letter from Keith Kizer, executive director of the Nevada State Athletic Commission, McCarthy, who submitted his application Sept. 10, was informed that the state “[does] not anticipate adding any additional referees at this time. We will place your application in the pending file in case the situation changes.”

That kind of defeats the whole idea of “no one’s applying”, doesn’t it?

The solution everyone must wake up to is that until more volunteers take it upon themselves to improve the sorry state of officiating, there is little that can be done. There’s obviously a case to be made that training methods can be improved, but the ceiling on how much that change matters is low. Best practices in methodology are no substitute for natural ability. And without a built-in mechanism for making refereeing attractive as a practice – do you really want to have two fighters’ lives in your hands at the cost of your spare time for very little money? – this is going to be a problem we are perpetually stuck with.

Very true in most states. Unfortunately, it isn’t true everywhere, and there is the added problem of officials who have been in place for a very long time, or grandfathered officials, keeping their jobs because of politics and long standing friendships with higher ranking officials.

The point that you hit on with the lack of officials is definitely an issue, but I’m not buying Kizer’s explanation or the UFC’s acceptance of NSAC officials. It sounds to me like flat out laziness from the UFC’s stance.

They take Weeks when they could take a bevy of experienced officials with better records of judgment. Weeks is one of the lone judges with one of the highest rates of disapproval, along with Peoples.

I think the best thing to do is increase the pay. It’s been brought up when talking about officials in NCAA football because it’s not their full-time job. The UFC\Strikforce and other promotions could set up a donation to the athletic commissions for judges and referees. If a ref is making a decent living just being a ref then the penalties for messing up could be a suspension or firing. I know that’s a stretch, but to get better officiating better they need better pay and a reason for people to get off the couch.

I would be very concerned about an influx of “fans” into the process. Fans, from what I see during the live discussions, have some serious blinders.

That there aren’t plenty of people volunteering to sit ringside at MMA events and judge them. You really expect me to believe Cecil People’s is one of the only people willing to put in the time to judge MMA? I call bullshit.

This sounds like the easiest kind of problem you can have…the kind where you could solve it by throwing money at it. Unfortunately due to the fragmented nature of combat sports, the UFC will never pay for something they feel should be handled by the commission.

why can all other sports leagues run their own shit and hire their own referees and have nothing to do with athletic commissions? The UFC already handles everything for overseas cards that don’t have commissions.

I understand that athletic commissions are in place for combat sports and not traditional sports because the lower echelons of combat sports can be seedy and unsafely handled, but an organization like the UFC should be granted exemption from dealing with commissions. I know people will bring up the integrity argument that the UFC would be able to manipulate outcomes if they paid the judges, since the judges have more control than referees in other sports, but I don’t buy that. Judges have no control over finishes, and calls in other sports could easily be manipulated if leagues wanted to do it.

Their is a lot of “fan” talk here. In your opinions, what is the best offence an MMA fan can organize against bad officiating as well as judging?

I agree an overhaul in the scoring system is a goal that should be looked at, but doesn’t require our immediate attention. Is it better to pin point certain specific areas of Judging and tackle them there, or kind of “clean house” with the intention or revamping the entire process. Are more judges needed?

The athletic commissions are only able to train and use those individuals who walk through the door. No more, no less.

What professions solely rely upon the people that knock on their door to employ? If you want the best people you have to recruit them, train them and retain them. The NSAC has been in the MMA game for almost a decade now are you telling me that they have no connections to past fighters? No connection to gyms with instructors who would love to make some money on the side?

God forbid the commission gets Jens Pulver or Ken Shamrock to judge a events instead of getting their heads kicked in at some second rate show just so they can pay thier rent. I understand that there can be some conflict of issues with employing instructors and ex-fighters but with a little bit of oversight these conflicts can be avoided. The problem is that the NSAC and most other athletic commissions are either too lazy, don’t care or don’t have the resources to make things right….

Luke:

I don’t think there’s any arguing with your main point that a large part of the fault lies in the fact that the status quo is all the commissions have to deal with right now. But I fail to see how this in any way shows that Kizer is “more right” than Rogan.

Rogan’s point is that, in many instances, judging in MMA is shit and the blame has to fall on the athletic commissions, as they oversee the judges. Nothing in what Kizer said, or in the valid point that you made, serves to shoot that down.

On top of that, assuming everything in your article to be true, the blame is still on the athletic commissions. I am absolutely sure that there are many fans and observers who live in areas where MMA events are consistently held who would jump at the chance to be a judge, if only to be involved in the sport in some way or simply to attend events for free. Yet, in many cases, there is no easily accessible way to discover information on how to become a judge and, even if there is, the process of doing so is too exhausting and ridiculous for those with jobs and lives to go through.

The point I’m making is this: You’re right, but it’s up to the athletic commissions to fix this problem, which has multiple solutions. Off the top of my head, how about some of the top athletic commissions (Nevada, California, Jersey, etc.) get together and create a practical program to train potential judges. Maybe make a goddamn web site to start the process, which sites like this one could link to.

This isn’t rocket science, Luke. I apologize if I’m misreading your argument, but it looks as though you’re pointing out a valid problem but in some ways washing the athletic commissions clean from any blame relating to that problem. That I cannot accept. They’re in charge, therefore they’re the ones who have to be held accountable. Plain and simple.

because earilier today I fired off an email to the Calgary Combative Sports Commission offering to volenteer. I’d like to be a part of the solution.

Why is something so simple as giving monitors to the judges NOT been done yet?

I for one have not heard one way to apply to be a judge or a referee for that matter, since they announced it legal in Ontario.

I know I would be interested, in very least with some better seats to some great fights.

Keith Kizer has the say in who works for NSAC and who doesn’t and don’t be surprised if there’s a lot of nepotism involved. Armando Garcia, formerly of the CSAC filled positions with buddies from his days working the prison system.

When has Kizer EVER openly invited the public to apply voluntarily for positions as officials? Until this piece, who even knew they could just go along to NSAC and say “I want to be an MMA judge”? Seems too simplistic and a little unrealistic to me.

He’s an appointed civil servant. Yes?

With the available resources in terms of manpower and allotted budgets, commissions set out to train, approve, certify and employ the best available talent they can find. They are left to work with the tools handed down to them, no matter if they are woefully incomplete or downright useless.

A couple instructional videos and some pens and paper for testing doesn’t cost a shit ton of dollars. Even on a limited budget there are some easy steps that can be taken.

I mean…sure, it probably is a lot of work to become a judge…but getting the best seats in the house at UFC events and being a deciding factor in the ruling of about half the fights…I cannot be the only fan who finds that extremely appealing and would gladly sacrifice a LOT of free time to get in that position. I’d assume the hurdles you have to take to actually become a judge are quite high and are really the limiting factor.

how anyone would side with Kizer over this whole situation. Like someone posted above, this is the first I’ve seen from Kizer that anyone can seek out the job.

People are complaining about the UFC taking along Weeks with them after that bad call. These guys are booked weeks, maybe longer than that in advanced for the events. It would be simply too late to try and get all the paperwork, booking, and what not done at this point.

is make it 5 judges for every MMA bout. That should be more representative of the general public. Also, what’s all this about judges not having any real incentives? You get your name shown on TV and known by the fans, plus you get to watch the live shows for free. Pretty cool gig if you ask me. I don’t think it’s a full time job anyway.

if there were no repercussions for suboptimal work.

go here, it only costs $50.

however, the athletic commission is the one that decides whether new judges are needed, so even if you were the best judge in the world, you can’t get a license unless the commission votes and thinks they need to give you one.