POSTPONED: MMA Nation Uncensored: UFC and Strikeforce Results, Reader Mailbag
by Luke Thomas on Dec 5, 2010 1:07 PM EST
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DUE TO TECHNICAL DIFFICULTIES WE WILL NOT BE BROADCASTING TODAY. This will be live tomorrow, so check back then for this show. Apologies to everyone who tried to tune in.
Today on "MMA Nation" we're going to change things up. There is NO live radio show today, so at 6 p.m. ET I'll be doing a one hour (maybe more) video podcast taking everything in MMA. You'll be able to get everything you need just from the video window above, no need for any apps or links.
We're going to recap all of the results from last night's UFC and Strikeforce events.
- Who won last night: Strikeforce (Dan Henderson vs. Renato Sobral) or UFC (Stephan Bonnar vs. Igor Pokrajac) ? Is the comparison even fair?
- What should be the fall out of Nam Phan losing a fight he obviously won? Should Keith Kizer do as Joe Rogan suggested and "clean house"?
- Renato Sobral and Matt Lindland: is it time to retire?
- What was YOUR fight of the night last evening?
- What's next for Rick Story after defeating Johny Hendricks?
- Will Kendall Grove be cut after suffering a loss to Demian Maia?
- Can Henderson lead Strikeforce into phase 2?
- Are you excited about a potential KJ Noons vs. Paul Daley match-up?
And we'll get to whatever questions or comments you have. So, post them in the comments or Tweet me. But whatever you do, be sure to join me at 6 p.m. ET. Should be fun.
Email here.
Talk to you then.
UPDATE: I'm going to try taking Skype calls, but you'll have to add me to your contact list ahead of time: bloody.elbow. Do that and I'll be able to conference you in. Let's give this a try.
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How could anyone score that fight for Garcia? How could anyone even think it was close?
What’s next for Rick Story/what would you think about a Swick fight supposing he comes out of his comeback fight relatively healthy with a W?
id like to see story fight a high named guy or a step up in competition
diego sanchez, paulo thiago, martin kampmann and even matt hughes all would make sense to me
"I have smoked weed with alot of UFC champions" - Joe Rogan
In terms of progression
I wouldn’t mind seeing him get the winner of Kim and Diaz. Part of me expects to see Diego and Kampmann square off.
Highly important question
Have you ever had Matt Brown on your show, and have you ever had him in studio?
I suffer from IBS, otherwise known as "Influx of Billick Syndrome".
why no live show today?
"I have smoked weed with alot of UFC champions" - Joe Rogan
How bad is it for Strikeforce is Hendo beats Feijao?
Luke: What was our best moment?
Nate: When I banned Subo?
Luke: That was a good one.
When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift
Contributor for WatchKalibRun.com
Still Subo at Fightlinker.com
I think he means it looks bad if StrikeForce’s LHW champion lost to the UFC’s WW #1 Contender. Obviously it’s more complicated than that (Hendo came close to finishing Shields off in the first round too before gassing; Hendo is probably better suited to LHW anyway (much like Anderson Silva is better at MW than WW and Overeem is better at HW than LHW); Hendo still has a considerable record even with the Shields loss; Feijao is hardly a star anyway), but to casual fans, and semi-casual fans, it kind of looks bad, and can provide a lot of ammo for Zuffa and Dana White.
So, just to be clear
You think it’s bad for SF if the American guy with global name recognition, who they pumped a lot of money into, beats the Brazilian guy, who nobody casual has ever heard of?
Tatum: I think he's a good man. I like him. I got nothing against him, but I'm definitely gonna make orphans of his children.
by Dave Strummer on Dec 5, 2010 4:31 PM EST up reply actions
To reitterate, I’m saying it can look bad when StrikeForce’s new LHW Champion is a guy who got dominated just two fights earlier by the UFC’s #1 Contender at a weight class 35 lbs. lower. Do I really have to re-explain that? I thought my post was pretty thorough.
Also, again, it’s obviously more complicated than that, since there are a lot of other factors, like Henderson being a much bigger star than Feijao, which I believe I did mention, but it certainly is something Dana White could use to shit on StrikeForce in his video blogs and interviews. Will this end up being legitimately bad for StrikeForce? Fuck if I know, I’m not psychic and as I’ve stated twice now, there are two sides to this issue. I was trying to elaborate on what Subo seemed to be getting at, since Luke Thomas asked about it. You might want to ask him instead if your statement was also directed at Subo’s original comment.
Don’t spend your show dealing with trolls please.
by Jonathan Snowden on Dec 5, 2010 3:05 PM EST up reply actions
Sorry, was gone
You’d have a 40+ year old champion and hurt one of your most promising stars.
Luke: What was our best moment?
Nate: When I banned Subo?
Luke: That was a good one.
When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift
Contributor for WatchKalibRun.com
Still Subo at Fightlinker.com
by Derek Suboticki on Dec 5, 2010 7:25 PM EST up reply actions
yea but how often have brazlian muay thai fighters with little english been big draws?
the best case for strikeforce is for hendo to win and then have a huge battle with mousasi (who we need to see in an SF cage pretty damn soon him vs kyle makes a shitload of sense and is very winnable)
"I have smoked weed with alot of UFC champions" - Joe Rogan
If I were Coker
I’d be a little afraid of putting Kyle against anyone I like. He dented the shit out of (and almost derailed) the Bigfoot hype train last night.
Luke: What was our best moment?
Nate: When I banned Subo?
Luke: That was a good one.
When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift
Contributor for WatchKalibRun.com
Still Subo at Fightlinker.com
by Derek Suboticki on Dec 5, 2010 7:37 PM EST up reply actions
i wouldnt say derailed
how many of the strikeforce heavyweights throw with that kinda power that kyle has? id say overeem possibly fedor and thats about it and bigfoots ability to bounce back was a good sign after seeing him gas against werdum (which is the fight that really derailed his hype train)
plus kyle earned himself a shit ton of fans last night, if he beats mousasi he sets up an extremely interesting fight with dan henderson
those 2 matchups are a win win for SF theres 4 guys who all have potential for huge star power (if feijao beats hendo and the hypothetical kyle/mousasi winner he’d gain the star power most brazilian muay thai guys can never find that i pointed out above)
"I have smoked weed with alot of UFC champions" - Joe Rogan
and id like to see grove have one last fight
him vs court mcgee would work out pretty solidly
"I have smoked weed with alot of UFC champions" - Joe Rogan
Grove is hopeless
He should be in Bellator or something…where Hector Lombard will beat the crap out of him.
I suffer from IBS, otherwise known as "Influx of Billick Syndrome".
Should these two shows be compared equally?
There are lots of talk on the site that strikeforce beat UFC, but I wouldnt consider that to be a fare assumption. To me, a TUF finale is just a way to give free fights, and promote the PPV involving the coaches of the show. Any possible result, including a show full of decisions, is seen as a success, because it is a marketing tool( and we know this by all of the commercials).
On comparing Strikeforce/UFC events last night
yeah, knockouts are fun. Decisions sometimes not so much.
That said the plethora of decisions on the UFC card show what happens when you have a very deep pool of talent to choose from. Instead of Bigfoot vs 40 lb lighter Mike Kyle and Paul ‘Legit world class striker’ Daley against Scott ’I’ve never fought at welterweight before’ Smith.
At the UFC we got highly competitive matches like hendricks-story.
The higher level the martial artists in the fight the less likely the fight is going to be finished. Decisions are just a sign of more evenly matched up participants- not a sign of sure boredom.
Uh let's see...
Strikeforce clearly won, but those of us who watched the whole TUF season were probably watching UFC (unfortunately).
Nam Phan should be treated as if he won. But the UFC saying they have no power to fix anything doesn’t ring true. I think they can make changes to the rules that take the power out of the judges hands.
Lindland or Sobral retire? Waiting for Severn and Shamrock first.
I think they can make changes to the rules that take the power out of the judges hands.
If they want to be treated as a legitimate sport, it needs to be left to the athletic commissions. They can lobby, they can file complaints, but in the end it’s MMA’s rules that are being regulated, not the UFC’s specific rules. StrikeForce actually has to apply for the No Elbows On The Ground exception in every state that they put on a show ahead of time. Sure they could fight exclusively in places with no athletic commissions (lessee, Wyoming, Alaska, Saskatchewan, overseas), but that would be a huge step backwards. What rules are you suggesting they try and get approved to take the power out of the judges hands?
Also, agreed StrikeForce clearly won last night. Wasn’t even close.
I don't know
I don’t fully understand the athletic commission thing. What other sport is regulated by an independent organization that has no stake in it? Only really well established sports like tennis have that, BUT, those independent organizations are non-profits, not state commissions. My understanding is that the commissions help them by taking some of the heat off the sport and giving them a legal framework to operate their dangerous sport in. To me, it actually makes it less legitimate that the sport itself doesn’t hire and fire their officials.
Use more judges.
State Commissions are non-profit by definition. It’s not a business. They’re run by the local government. Also, MMA is not run by these organizations anymore than boxing is. In both cases they are regulated by them. State commissions take steps to ensure that when people step in a ring or a cage to beat the crap out of each other, it’s a fair fight with a fair outcome (the occasional bad judge aside). If this was a sport judged clearly on points like ball sports, you wouldn’t need judges to decide them, just referees, but it isn’t, and it follows in the footsteps of boxing which is a sport that has a history of corruption, and pro-wrestling which is not a real sport, so this is the best way to ensure legitimacy.
Well, the rules of tennis are written through the USTA, a non-governmental non-profit. The pro tour is owned by the players who have an organization that negotiates with sponsors to put on tournaments (the Grand slams are owned by the national federations for the most part.). I’m trying to figure out what it is about MMA that makes the commissions (who approve rules, officials, and judges) necessary.
I can see how having judges that aren’t beholden to the UFC has some benefits, but it sure has some detriments too, most prominently that the judging is almost random and there seems to be almost no ongoing evolution in how the sport is officiated. Almost nobody who is deeply involved in the sport believes that the judging system in place is a good one. So who’s in charge of changing that? A patchwork of ACs who have a tangential relationship to MMA. That’s a bad plan for a sport that’s evolving quickly.
Use more judges.
The fact that the UFC is an inherently violent sport (note I said violent, not dangerous) is what causes it to need a completely independent third-party entity to help oversee it in order for it to be considered legitimate. Also, the possibility of an MMA fighters’ union (like the union financing the USTA) happening anytime soon are all but non-existant, for far too many reasons to list here.
Trumping both of those things is that they need athletic commissions for the sport to even stay legal. This sport was almost outlawed into extinction in the U.S., if it wasn’t for the previous owners of the UFC working with athletic commissions and then Zuffa taking the ball and running with it. This is a combat sport, it is not a sport where people hit a ball back and forth (no disrespect to tennis), and it’s heavily regulated for that reason. If the UFC were to suddenly start using their own judges and not go through an athletic commission, it would be up to individual states and each states respective Attorney General whether the sport was even legal under those circumstances, and technically it would not. Some states might still turn a blind eye to this thanks to the UFC becoming semi-mainstream, at least for a while, but most would refuse to let them run events there.
Furthermore, the ACs hardly have a “tangential” relatsionship with MMA, seeing as MMA and Boxing are about 90% of what they deal with, but that’s beside the point.
Yes, there are bullshit decisions that are harming the sport, but if you want to fix that you can either: 1) lobby athletic commissions to fix the way they do things or 2) get state legislatures to pass new and unprecedented laws allowing for less regulation of a combat sport. Which do you think is easier to accomplish?
Do you believe that UFC brand (as elite fighters competing in the premier league) suffers
when Strikeforce cards feature more top talent on the same night? Should Zuffa focus on keeping more top 30 talent on their cards, even if it is Vera vs. Thiago Silva and Hammil vs. Brilz?
"Someone is WRONG on the internet. What do you want me to do? LEAVE? Then they'll keep being wrong!"
-Randall Munroe
Luke a few people pointed this out last night on the sherdog post fight show and it made me think do you actually think we could see fightersand there managers refuse to take future fights Lenard Garcia knowing the history of him pulling off these horrible decision wins becasue of the incompetence of the judges ?
Scared of a guy with devestating ko power, great subs, neverending gas tank split decision skills? Maybe the fight game is not for that ‘fighter’ or his manager.
Imagine an African white christ from space
by Barack Lesnar on Dec 5, 2010 4:51 PM EST up reply actions
I imagined an African white christ from space
And all I could come up with was Jonathan Brookins
Walking the line between intelligence and ignorance since 1985
@deowade
Unintelligent Defense, I bring Cricket bats to fist fights.
by Damon O. on Dec 5, 2010 4:55 PM EST up reply actions 6 recs
I lost my shit when I read that Rec
Imagine an African white christ from space
by Barack Lesnar on Dec 5, 2010 5:32 PM EST up reply actions
Or maybe it really sucks when you should easily win a decision but some how end up on the wrong side of a split decision when you fight Garcia. I can easily see where fighters/managers would be quite apprehensive about a fight with Garcia.
“He gets gifted split decisions, I don’t wanna fight him” Ok no problem heres Jose Aldo the only thing he splits is your wig, happy?
Imagine an African white christ from space
by Barack Lesnar on Dec 5, 2010 5:37 PM EST up reply actions
Joe Silva “Hey we were thinking that you and Leonard Garcia should fight next”
Random fighter “Yeah that’s not going to work for me”
Joe Silva “Why not?”
Random Fighter “Well Joe I think he’ll beat me by some bullshit decision, I know I have three rounds to finish the fight and I’ve seen every fight of his and he gasses after the first round but hey I gameplan for decisions Joe”
Joe Silva “Whats your fax number?”
Imagine an African white christ from space
by Barack Lesnar on Dec 5, 2010 6:02 PM EST up reply actions
that actually happens in boxing quite often.usally when it comes to fighting in home towns they think the Judges will be bias.
Good for boxing.
Imagine an African white christ from space
by Barack Lesnar on Dec 5, 2010 6:27 PM EST up reply actions
What kind of judging system do you believe MMA should have?
Walking the line between intelligence and ignorance since 1985
@deowade
Unintelligent Defense, I bring Cricket bats to fist fights.
Was it risky for the UFC to have such a weak card against a Strikeforce card essentially designed to produce KOs?
Will Dana White care that people are saying SF trounced the UFC on Saturday?
Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try Again. Fail again. Fail better. -Samuel Beckett
Reasoning will never make a man correct an ill opinion, which by reasoning he never acquired. -Jonathan Swift
by Scott C. Broussard on Dec 5, 2010 5:14 PM EST reply actions
I could for a second
Walking the line between intelligence and ignorance since 1985
@deowade
Unintelligent Defense, I bring Cricket bats to fist fights.
Will Demian Maia get back into title contention?
And will Kendall Grove be cut from the UFC after his loss?
I suffer from IBS, otherwise known as "Influx of Billick Syndrome".
bud ice tall boys?
shoulda gone hurricane fortys or at least steel reserve
"I have smoked weed with alot of UFC champions" - Joe Rogan
Steel Reserve beer that tastes warm even when its cold.
Imagine an African white christ from space
by Barack Lesnar on Dec 5, 2010 6:09 PM EST up reply actions
hell yea
shits delicious
"I have smoked weed with alot of UFC champions" - Joe Rogan
What you know about Icehouse?
Imagine an African white christ from space
by Barack Lesnar on Dec 5, 2010 6:11 PM EST up reply actions
never had it
im a poor college kid, it doesnt really get above natty and 40s for me
"I have smoked weed with alot of UFC champions" - Joe Rogan
Icehouse is in that company of low budget brew
Imagine an African white christ from space
by Barack Lesnar on Dec 5, 2010 6:26 PM EST up reply actions
i dont exactly like to experiment with those types though
its best to find one u can tolerate it and ruthlessly pound it until either ur budget increases or ur liver explodes
"I have smoked weed with alot of UFC champions" - Joe Rogan
Stick to the hard stuff Vodka or gtfo has been my motto for years now
Imagine an African white christ from space
by Barack Lesnar on Dec 5, 2010 6:31 PM EST up reply actions
vladimir vodka and bankers club are two of my best friends
12 bucks and 14 bucks a handle are some of the best deals u can get
"I have smoked weed with alot of UFC champions" - Joe Rogan
A man after my own heart...
"It has nothing to do with corruption. It's sheer, complete, total incompetence." - Joe Rogan
i can see
ur on the air
"I have smoked weed with alot of UFC champions" - Joe Rogan
and ur off
"I have smoked weed with alot of UFC champions" - Joe Rogan
I hear audio
Walking the line between intelligence and ignorance since 1985
@deowade
Unintelligent Defense, I bring Cricket bats to fist fights.
with an echo
Walking the line between intelligence and ignorance since 1985
@deowade
Unintelligent Defense, I bring Cricket bats to fist fights.
i hear voices
You can read my work over @ http://www.headkicklegend.com/
"I swear it upon Zeus an outstanding runner cannot be the equal of an average wrestler."
-Socrates
Youre back
You can read my work over @ http://www.headkicklegend.com/
"I swear it upon Zeus an outstanding runner cannot be the equal of an average wrestler."
-Socrates
by ElliotMatheny on Dec 5, 2010 6:20 PM EST up reply actions
There's meds for that, you know.
"It has nothing to do with corruption. It's sheer, complete, total incompetence." - Joe Rogan
Works
Walking the line between intelligence and ignorance since 1985
@deowade
Unintelligent Defense, I bring Cricket bats to fist fights.
Defenestrate is one of the most underrated words in the English Language
Walking the line between intelligence and ignorance since 1985
@deowade
Unintelligent Defense, I bring Cricket bats to fist fights.
Learned something today
verb
throw through or out of the window
by MMAInFeRioRiTy on Dec 5, 2010 6:23 PM EST up reply actions
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Defenestrations_of_Prague
Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try Again. Fail again. Fail better. -Samuel Beckett
Reasoning will never make a man correct an ill opinion, which by reasoning he never acquired. -Jonathan Swift
by Scott C. Broussard on Dec 5, 2010 6:30 PM EST up reply actions
"What Pres. Theodore Roosevelt threatenedd to do to mine owners for $200, Alex"
Seriously. Coal strike of 1902. Said “It is only the dignity of my office that prevents me from grabbing them by the scruff of the neck and throwing out the window.” Roughly.
"It has nothing to do with corruption. It's sheer, complete, total incompetence." - Joe Rogan
Dude lost vision in one eye sparring. In the WHITE HOUSE. While PRESIDENT.
Fuckin’ hard core.
"It has nothing to do with corruption. It's sheer, complete, total incompetence." - Joe Rogan
Assume leadership, like a boss.
Say fuck Columbia Law, like a boss.
Lose some vision, like a boss.
Sign some bullshit, like a boss.
by Brent Ducharme on Dec 6, 2010 8:33 PM EST up reply actions
Effing socialist.
Luke: What was our best moment?
Nate: When I banned Subo?
Luke: That was a good one.
When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift
Contributor for WatchKalibRun.com
Still Subo at Fightlinker.com
by Derek Suboticki on Dec 5, 2010 7:27 PM EST up reply actions
Best president of the last 110 years
"It has nothing to do with corruption. It's sheer, complete, total incompetence." - Joe Rogan
I prefer his cousin, but he’s up there.
Luke: What was our best moment?
Nate: When I banned Subo?
Luke: That was a good one.
When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift
Contributor for WatchKalibRun.com
Still Subo at Fightlinker.com
by Derek Suboticki on Dec 6, 2010 2:38 AM EST up reply actions
i hope that was a joke.
"I wish Anthony Pace was my father just so I could claim to be the fruit of his loins."
"Even Hulkamania wouldn't get you out of this hold"
"True strength is not always shown through victory. Stand up, try again and display strength of heart."
by the-gentle-way on Dec 5, 2010 10:24 PM EST up reply actions
Annnnnnd you're off
Poor dog
Walking the line between intelligence and ignorance since 1985
@deowade
Unintelligent Defense, I bring Cricket bats to fist fights.
Couldn't care less
Walking the line between intelligence and ignorance since 1985
@deowade
Unintelligent Defense, I bring Cricket bats to fist fights.
CANCELLED
THIS SHIT IS A DISASTER. I WILL DO ONE OF THESE TOMORROW NIGHT. I HAVE MY LIFE.
Follow me on Twitter: @MMANation.
Fair enough
Sometimes in a world of man vs. computers, the computers win.
You can read my work over @ http://www.headkicklegend.com/
"I swear it upon Zeus an outstanding runner cannot be the equal of an average wrestler."
-Socrates
by ElliotMatheny on Dec 5, 2010 6:23 PM EST up reply actions
To err is human...
to REALLY screw up, you need a computer.
"It has nothing to do with corruption. It's sheer, complete, total incompetence." - Joe Rogan
thanks for helping me procrastiate my finals.....
hate my life more right now
fucking ustream
"I have smoked weed with alot of UFC champions" - Joe Rogan
Well
Sunday School is on the SDR in like an hour 1/2, but I personally find Scott Holmes and Rodney Dean extremely obnoxious
You can read my work over @ http://www.headkicklegend.com/
"I swear it upon Zeus an outstanding runner cannot be the equal of an average wrestler."
-Socrates
by ElliotMatheny on Dec 5, 2010 6:26 PM EST up reply actions
eh think im gonna go rogan podcast
i dont usually watch it unless ive participated in the same pregame activity that rogan and redban always do, but sometimes sacrifices need to be made
"I have smoked weed with alot of UFC champions" - Joe Rogan
I'll be tuning in tomorrow.
Walking the line between intelligence and ignorance since 1985
@deowade
Unintelligent Defense, I bring Cricket bats to fist fights.
I'm afraid I can't let you broadcast, Luke.
Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try Again. Fail again. Fail better. -Samuel Beckett
Reasoning will never make a man correct an ill opinion, which by reasoning he never acquired. -Jonathan Swift
by Scott C. Broussard on Dec 5, 2010 6:32 PM EST up reply actions 4 recs
Noice!
"Last time a Russian hit a brother that hard, Ivan Drago killed Apollo Creed"- Some guy on Sherdog, referencing Fedor vs Rogers
by Lulz McGee on Dec 5, 2010 7:29 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I love how daley wants to call out noons.. I understand Kj is a big name in the division who beat diaz before but Kj is a 155er.. I think daley would Ko Noons. The real reason why daley doesnt want to fight cyborg is because it is a dangerous fight and cyborg doesnt have the name recognition in SF and has a legit shot at knocking him out.
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