Chael Sonnen Breaks Silence Regarding Positive Steroid Test at UFC 117
by Leland Roling on Dec 4, 2010 2:33 PM EST
in UFC Interview
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PrintChael Sonnen opens up to Inside MMA's Mike Straka regarding his positive steroid test following his UFC 117 title bout against Anderson Silva back in August. Sonnen tells Straka during the interview that he doesn't plan to deal with the embarrassment of the positive because that's between himself and commission. Furthermore, he states that he "doesn't know anyone who thinks he's on steroids."
Furthermore, Sonnen talks extensively about disclosing the testosterone therapy to multiple commissions and states exactly what he did to disclose that he was taking injections.
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This just in
Chael Sonnen doesn’t know any MMA fans.
BOOSH
by Farthammer on Dec 3, 2010 11:43 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
Listen...If I ever get in trouble with the law..
I want Chael as my lawyer…or atleast my publicist…If I needed one.
Forget Chael Sonnen, Call his "DR"
by higgledy-piggledy on Dec 4, 2010 12:39 PM EST up reply actions
Don't get it Twisted
The smoke and mirror show put on by Chael is nothing short of amazing. The way he has diverted attention away from the real issue makes me think his true calling is politics.
1. Chael was AND is suspended and fined for having and extremely elevated/high ratio of testosterone in his body, found in his piss. The cutoff is 4.0 (even for athletes undergoing TRT). His was a 16.9.
2. Chael IS NOT suspended and fined for not filing paperwork. This is a steaming pile of horse shit and nothing more than a diversionary tactic to distract people from the fact he was (and is) suspended and fined for having a superhuman testosterone ratio in his piss.
Chael is serving out a suspension and was fined for pissing hot. All of this “Paperwork” shit IS nonsense.
1. Chael pissed hot.
2. Chael admitted to taking a massive testosterone Injection two days before his fight with Anderson.
3. Chael did not, nor has he ever, notified the NSAC or CSAC of his “Condition.”
4.Chael Sonnen is a cheater, and according to his own words, cannot compete in MMA without bi-weekly testosterone injections.
5. Chael is currently serving out his sentence for having an unacceptable ratio of test in his piss.
6. Chael not filing paperwork or having conversations with Kizer or whoever the fuck is completely not the issue here.
Chael had his suspension reduced because he showed up and said “My balls are small. They dont produce TEst anymore, so I gotta get it injected. It’s so low that and injection should bring me up to normal levels, but hey, 16.9 is cool right? I didn’t want to write it down on a piece of paper cuz I was scared the other boys would make fun of me. Also, I didn’t know the proper procedure for notification, and I still don’t. What? That piece of paper I was told I’m supposed to write down everything I’m taking on? Mmmm… You’re still not making any sense. I don’t understand the process.”
Then he goes on with that fuckpuppet Straka and actually says : “There is no process to notify them I was on this. Oh, and your mistaken Mike, there was no elevated levels. And Saying testosterone is like steroids is the same as saying mouthwash is alcohol.” Ohhhhh… Kay?
His suspension was reduced, yes. Not overturned. A rapist that has his sentence reduced to 15 years down from 20 is still a rapist folks.
I have more respect for Zulu as a fighter than I do for this lying piece of shit scumbag fuck. If anyone takes this thing seriously at all, they should feel the same way.
"It is hard to free fools from the chains they revere."
by Shotokanman on Dec 4, 2010 3:54 PM EST up reply actions 8 recs
You repeated yourself a million times lol
'cause the heart that betrays itself willingly, Is like a nation that trades freedom for stability, its so seductive to be cold and corrupted and isolated and try to be an independent republic, But liberty to be loved on the surface is worthless, The sacrifice of revolution with no purpose
by ImmortalTechnique92 on Dec 4, 2010 4:39 PM EST up reply actions
I was concerned by the lack of sense in this thread
Reptition makes for solid emphasis on the points. I’ev been debating this topic for 2 days now, and people still don’t seem to get it.
I’m sorry if I wasted half an hour of your time getting you to read 3 more lines.
"It is hard to free fools from the chains they revere."
'cause the heart that betrays itself willingly, Is like a nation that trades freedom for stability, its so seductive to be cold and corrupted and isolated and try to be an independent republic, But liberty to be loved on the surface is worthless, The sacrifice of revolution with no purpose
by ImmortalTechnique92 on Dec 4, 2010 4:58 PM EST up reply actions
this (Shotokanman's) post is hinged entirely on an inaccuracy
the 4.0 cutoff that chael missed is the ratio of synthetic to natural testosterone, not the total testosterone.
the total testosterone level (the important one) was in the clear.
if he had test injected two days before, the test in the urine would be completely wonky, which explains the synthetic ratio.
so, yeah, it pretty much is a giant clerical error.
No it was not "in the clear"
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by S.C. Michaelson on Dec 4, 2010 6:05 PM EST up reply actions
show me otherwise.
if his total test was off the charts, i think we would have heard it.
SC is correct, but only because there was no such test done to have a result from.
His total level is a complete unknown to the CSAC as they don’t test for it. Only a blood test will reveal total and bioavailable levels.
The 4:1 cut-off is the ratio of testosterone to epitestosterone, which your body produces normally in a near 1:1 ratio with each other. The test is design to show if the testosterone levels are artificially high for some reason, generally due to the use of anabolic steroids.
This T/E ratio being over 4:1 is simply a red flag, it says nothing whatsoever about what his actual total testosterone levels are, simply that they are unnaturally elevated.
This triggers the use of a much more expensive follow-up test (GC/MS or IRMS) to test for the presence of synthetic testosterone or similar analogs in the urine sample, with a positive result indicating that exogenous (non-natural, literally outside the body) testosterone is present.
"Sometimes I wonder if the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on, or by imbeciles who really mean it."
-Mark Twain
"If I tell you I'm good, you would probably think I'm boasting. If I tell you I'm no good, you know I'm lying..."
-Bruce Lee
by The American Ronin on Dec 5, 2010 1:24 AM EST up reply actions
the csac didn't take a blood test, but
an independent blood test was taken the day after the fight. this was presented to the commission in the evidence packet.
It’s not the ratio of synthetic to natural testosterone. It’s the level of testosterone to epitestosterone. The body produces a fairly equal amount of T:E. An unbalanced ratio indicates the presence of exogenous introduction of testosterone.
Twitter: @Mike_Fagan_13
Actually
The documents I am citing make quite a clear distinction between the two, as did I when I was typing about it, hence the word “ratio” as opposed to simply saying “Testosterone.”
I suppose I could have said “Epi-Test to Test ratio”.
So, no. No there is no clerical error, no his total testosterone level was not in the clear, just… No.
You do get one “yes”, and that’s yes, the testosterone in the urine was indeed “wonky.” Technically another NO for you.
No.
"It is hard to free fools from the chains they revere."
He’s still kinda right. The testosterone levels in his urine sample were way above the allowed threshold. However it was made clear in the hearing that the injections would elevate the levels in his urine substantially while supposedly his real testosterone level (the amount that is actually relevant for performance enhancement) could have been normal. This however could only be tested by bloodwork so whether or not Chael Sonnen really had elevated levels of testosterone in his system in a way that could be regarded as PED usage remains undetermined. Otherwise it would be quite clear cut and the comission wouldn’t have cut the sentence in half.
To save me some time on 25% of all threads, here's the universal answer to the Fedor-debate: Fedor is the most accomplished MMA fighter ever. That is a fact. If he still is the best fighter at this point in time is up for debate.
Correct me if I'm wrong
But we are checking piss here, not blood?
And the piss said “WHOA SHIT THERE IS A FUCKTON OF TESTOSTERONE IN HERE!”
I’m a little confused. So you mean that if Sonnen wasn’t on a performance enhancing amount of testosterone his piss would have been the same as if he had shot a massive amount of juice 2 days prior? (which he did)
"It is hard to free fools from the chains they revere."
And from that piss test
Absolutely NOTHING about his total levels of testosterone can be determined or inferred. Nothing. At all. Period.
"Sometimes I wonder if the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on, or by imbeciles who really mean it."
-Mark Twain
"If I tell you I'm good, you would probably think I'm boasting. If I tell you I'm no good, you know I'm lying..."
-Bruce Lee
by The American Ronin on Dec 5, 2010 1:49 AM EST up reply actions
Yes, we are checking “piss” here, not blood. And therefore, as I understand it, all that is proven beyond a doubt is that Chael has had Testosterone in him that was not produced by his body. However the test is inconclusive as to the actual testosterone levels in his body. The way they explained it the injected testosterone will only remain in the body to a low percentage and the rest of it will be excreted via urine (same as if you take a vitamin-tablett only a fraction of that stuff actually “sticks”).
In order to know whether Sonnen actually had an above average level of testosterone in his body and was not just bringing is lower-than-normal test-level up to speed the comission would’ve had to perform a blood test as soon as they learned of this. That is not protocoll so all we know for sure is that Sonnen has injected himself with the stuff but not if he used it as a PED or as medication.
To save me some time on 25% of all threads, here's the universal answer to the Fedor-debate: Fedor is the most accomplished MMA fighter ever. That is a fact. If he still is the best fighter at this point in time is up for debate.
The level of idiocy and misinformation contained in this is incredible...
1. Chael was AND is suspended and fined for having and extremely elevated/high ratio of testosterone in his body, found in his piss. The cutoff is 4.0 (even for athletes undergoing TRT). His was a 16.9.
False. There is no "cutoff" on the T/E ratio, although as noted elsewhere here exceeding the 4:1 ratio does trigger additional testing.
2. Chael IS NOT suspended and fined for not filing paperwork. This is a steaming pile of horse shit and nothing more than a diversionary tactic to distract people from the fact he was (and is) suspended and fined for having a superhuman testosterone ratio in his piss.
False. Sonnen was and is suspended for testing positive for anabolic steroids without the proper therapeutic use exemption. Nothing more and nothing less.
1. Chael pissed hot.
True. This is the one significant point in here that is true, even if it is largely irrelevant in this case.
2. Chael admitted to taking a massive testosterone Injection two days before his fight with Anderson.
False. Sonnen did acknowledge taking an injection (not a "massive" injection) 2 days prior to the fight.
3. Chael did not, nor has he ever, notified the NSAC or CSAC of his "Condition."
False. Sonnen notified the CSAC. SC Michaelson provided copies of the form in his excellent write-up on WKR.
4.Chael Sonnen is a cheater, and according to his own words, cannot compete in MMA without bi-weekly testosterone injections.
False. His doctor did state that however. It is much like the way a diabetic couldn’t compete (or train) without regular insulin injections to compensate.
5. Chael is currently serving out his sentence for having an unacceptable ratio of test in his piss.
False. There is no suspension for "having an unacceptable ratio of test in his piss" for Sonnen or anyone else. Had he never filed the paperwork admitting to it already, if the GC/MS or IRMS follow-up tests had shown no exogenous testosterone there would be no suspension.
6. Chael not filing paperwork or having conversations with Kizer or whoever the fuck is completely not the issue here.
False. Chael not filing the complete paperwork to receive a therapeutic use exemption IS the issue here. Had that been submitted and approved this would be a complete non-issue.
Like many others, you are fixated on this completely wrong idea that having a high T/E ratio equals having a high testosterone level. It simply does not – not in any way, shape or form.
"Sometimes I wonder if the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on, or by imbeciles who really mean it."
-Mark Twain
"If I tell you I'm good, you would probably think I'm boasting. If I tell you I'm no good, you know I'm lying..."
-Bruce Lee
by The American Ronin on Dec 5, 2010 1:47 AM EST up reply actions
No.
“False. Sonnen was and is suspended for testing positive for anabolic steroids without the proper therapeutic use exemption. Nothing more and nothing less.”
You have the part about being suspended for testing positive correct. But once again “without proper theraputic use exemption” is BULLSHIT.
He is busted for pissing hot. PAPERWORK HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THIS. Quit saying that it does, because it flat out, without a single question does not.
Sonnen was and is suspended for testing positive for anabolic steroids, nothing more, nothing less. I like that better, actually, thank you for clarifying that and further proving my point for me.
No cutoff huh? This is from MMAjunkie: CSAC executive director George Dodd confirmed the challenger had tested positive for elevated testosterone levels. (His testosterone-to-epitestosterone ratio tested at 16.9, which well exceeded the CSAC’s 4.0 cutoff, according to recently released documents.)
Yea, I see, where I got confused there. Totally no cutoff at all right?
“Chael pissed hot”- You claim this to be both a significant point and then largely irrelevant in the same sentence. I don’t even know what to say here other than the 30 insults regarding your intelligence that come to mind so I’ll just move on after saying it is COMPLETELY RELEVANT TO THIS CASE.
“False. Sonnen did acknowledge taking an injection (not a “massive” injection) 2 days prior to the fight."
Right, ok, so it was just a regular amount of pure man juice going into his ass. That makes it all ok. But to me, call me crazy but if he took a “regular” amount his epitest-test ratio would be brought from low to normal levels, not low to holy fuck that a lotta juice levels. So “massive” applies here.
Yes, his doctor did say that about Sonnen, much like a diabetic, I get it. However, Chael’s doctor was speaking ON BEHALF OF CHAEL. You are sitting there typing he wasn’t? jesus Christ man get a grip on those straws your grasping at.
“False. There is no suspension for “having an unacceptable ratio of test in his piss” – Back to semantics again huh? Yea, why focus on the issues. No you are right, the suspension was for juicing, straight up. The evidence they are using to suspend him? The unacceptable ratio of epitest to test they found in his piss.
“False. Chael not filing the complete paperwork to receive a therapeutic use exemption IS the issue here.” I feel a little like Diaz here “I’m retarded? I’m retarded? Your fucking retarded!”…
But no, sir, the issue is certainly NOT Chael filing paperwork. I don’t know how many different ways I can say it, but you said it yourself the best. He is popped for juicing, plain and simple. He had his suspension reduced but still enforced, he still has to pay his fine.
Get it? THE RULING STANDS. His sentence, for juicing (in your words) was reduced.
REDUCED. Not overturned, not lifted, not anything. He still paid his fine, he still serves a suspension BECAUSE HE IS GUILTY. My earlier example about a rapist still stands. If you are caught for rape, punished, serve 15 of your 20 year sentence and get it reduced, you are still a rapist. Or, in this case, a juicer.
His defence is laughable and anyone who buys into it, I have a thought.
If you steal something, are caught, and then say “I asked that guy if I could borrow it, and he said yes. Oh, he says he didn’t say I could borrow it? Well, he did. I’m innocent.” Is that a good reason? It’s all good hey?
Or maybe he could say “I was going to pay for this, but y’know, I just didn’t know how. Oh, the guy at the till asking me for money?Ummm… I’m sorry your still not making any sense. I still don’t understand how to pay for things. This system is a joke.”
I haven’t seen S.C.‘s write up but if there is paperwork of Chael informing the CSAC that he is jacking juice twice a week in the week preceding his fight with Anderson(or anytime leading up to his fight with Anderson at all) I’ll eat my fucking shoes.
"It is hard to free fools from the chains they revere."
Man you are slow...I just don't understand why you can't understand
Clearly you know less than nothing about this subject – if you even knew that you knew nothing that would be something, but you don’t.
This shouldn’t be that hard for you to grasp, but one more time, from the top…
According to testimony given under oath by Sonnen and his doctor, it is medically necessary for Chael to receive TRT. Sonnen submitted a form pre-fight indicating he had taken an injection of testosterone immediately prior to the fight. BY DEFINITION IT IS A PAPERWORK ISSUE regarding a therapeutic use exemption certificate (TUEC), unless Sonnen and his doctor provided forged records and perjured themselves, in which case he has way bigger problems than testing positive.
The one and only thing the testosterone to epitestosterone ratio tells is whether there is an excess of testosterone to epitestosterone in his body because they are almost always in a roughly 1:1 ratio naturally.
Once this test is positive (for over 4:1), secondary testing is done to determine if the testosterone is natural or synthetic. That is it. Period.
Nothing about the overall levels of testosterone in Sonnen’s body can be determined from this test. Nothing. Period.
I’m sorry I had to use a few words with more than 2 syllables, but this is about as simple as I can make it for you.
"Sometimes I wonder if the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on, or by imbeciles who really mean it."
-Mark Twain
"If I tell you I'm good, you would probably think I'm boasting. If I tell you I'm no good, you know I'm lying..."
-Bruce Lee
by The American Ronin on Dec 5, 2010 3:57 PM EST up reply actions
But he didnt fill out that form.
So you are horribly, utterly, wrong.
And when asked why he didn’t disclose it?
“Because I was afraid the other fighters in the room would make fun of me.”
You are simply saying things that are not true.
The Truth:
Chael was busted for juicing.
Chael is suspended from fighting for 6 months for juicing and has to pay a fine for $2500.
End of story.
Anything else is apologetic, revisionist and completely irrelevant nonsense.
Chael Sonnen is busted for juicing. He gets to fight again in March, he will probably get the TUF coaching gig and a title shot. So stop whining and crying and grasping at straws and numbers and “he said this he said that and I believe in Chael!”
One last time:
Chael Sonnen was busted for juice, he will pay his fine and serve his suspension. FACT.
"It is hard to free fools from the chains they revere."
Good grief, this is like
trying to discuss something with a 12 year old…
"Sometimes I wonder if the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on, or by imbeciles who really mean it."
-Mark Twain
"If I tell you I'm good, you would probably think I'm boasting. If I tell you I'm no good, you know I'm lying..."
-Bruce Lee
by The American Ronin on Dec 5, 2010 8:54 PM EST up reply actions
Ok fucknuts
I’ll put this in terms a 12 year old can understand, since you seem to be so focused on that age group for some reason. Talk to alot of 12 year olds online, do we? Anyways…
We are talking about 2 seperate forms here. I’m not talking about that one you posted at the bottom. That form was filled out WHEN HE WAS TAKING A PISS TEST. Not when he was supposed too, previous to that date. Not a difficult concept at all. But I’m sure you are gonna be all “Arrrgh 12 yr olds! 12 year old i love 12 yr olds!”
I am talking about the seperate medical questionaire that accompanies your UFC medical exam/paperwork/submissions.
Y’know, the one Chael said HE DIDNT FILL OUT because he was ascart teh other fighters would make fun of poor little defenceless Chael for having shriveled balls.
This is where Chael says he had a conversation with Kizer in lieu of filling out said form. I can’t wait to here what happens out of that one.
So, are you gonna post that form too? The one Chael said he didn’t fill out because he just don’t understand the process?
"It is hard to free fools from the chains they revere."
You may have meant that, but what you SAID was:
But he didnt fill out that form
In direct response to my comment of:
Sonnen submitted a form pre-fight indicating he had taken an injection of testosterone immediately prior to the fight.
How much simpler can this be?!?
And no, not online, but in my job as a SC Coach, I am hired to work with a fair number of teenage clients, thus my understanding of your juvenile, double-digit IQ mindset.
"Sometimes I wonder if the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on, or by imbeciles who really mean it."
-Mark Twain
"If I tell you I'm good, you would probably think I'm boasting. If I tell you I'm no good, you know I'm lying..."
-Bruce Lee
by The American Ronin on Dec 6, 2010 7:39 PM EST up reply actions
Ok man, I just gotta get your take on him not disclosing
when he should have.
He literally said “I didn’t want the other fighters in the room to make fun of me.”
Please explain this. It is these instances in particular that stand out to me and make it very hard to swallow anything this guy says.
"It is hard to free fools from the chains they revere."
I have no explanation for that either, other than he is either a liar, a fool, or both.
"Sometimes I wonder if the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on, or by imbeciles who really mean it."
-Mark Twain
"If I tell you I'm good, you would probably think I'm boasting. If I tell you I'm no good, you know I'm lying..."
-Bruce Lee
by The American Ronin on Dec 6, 2010 9:27 PM EST up reply actions
Did he say why he lied about his discussion with Keith Kizer?
Kizer says he has never talked to Chael
"Turn yourself not away from three best things: Good Thought, Good Word, and Good Deed" - Zoroaster
catch me if you can @ MMA Answers
Well, he basically says there was FOUR different disclosures.
Follow me on Twitter @lelandroling
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein
by Leland Roling on Dec 3, 2010 11:47 PM EST up reply actions
Yes. But he clearly lied about Keith Kizer telling him not to disclose.
Did he or did he not talk to Kizer? Keith says he has never talked to Chael. I saw the video and he said Kizer did tell him not to disclose. Unless I am getting all this wrong. Maybe he misspoke?
"Turn yourself not away from three best things: Good Thought, Good Word, and Good Deed" - Zoroaster
catch me if you can @ MMA Answers
by SheepleBuster on Dec 3, 2010 11:49 PM EST up reply actions
Straka never asked him. It was obvious that Sonnen was going to become agitated if anything was asked like that, and I think Straka just safely asked him to explain.
Follow me on Twitter @lelandroling
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein
by Leland Roling on Dec 3, 2010 11:53 PM EST up reply actions
Yes.
I don’t care about Straka. If Chael lied about his discussion about Kizer, which Straka did not ask about, he needs to be suspended for 2 years. He lied. He threw someone else under the bus. This is even worse. He lied without even thinking about it for a second. Anything to get himself out of trouble. He lied about Lance Armstrong comment. We said, OK, he is just pushing and promoting the fight.
But he now has lied to the commission if the report by the guys at CageSide is right. http://www.mixedmartialarts.com/news/284009/Kizer-Sonnens-claims-at-CSAC-hearing-could-cost-him/
How can this guy have all this fans when he lies about everything and makes a mockery of our sport?
"Turn yourself not away from three best things: Good Thought, Good Word, and Good Deed" - Zoroaster
catch me if you can @ MMA Answers
by SheepleBuster on Dec 3, 2010 11:55 PM EST up reply actions
they don't bother me :)
I said before this ruling that he deserved to be banned for 2 YEARS for his actions. I don’t care about his words. I just want him to pay for what he did. Actually, I also argued for legalizing steroids and drugs. So technically, I don’t care if he doesn’t do any time.
But his personality bothers me a bit. The way he plays the role of a victim and says he is not a victim.
"Turn yourself not away from three best things: Good Thought, Good Word, and Good Deed" - Zoroaster
catch me if you can @ MMA Answers
by SheepleBuster on Dec 4, 2010 12:02 AM EST up reply actions
According the the following flowchart...
"Someone is WRONG on the internet. What do you want me to do? LEAVE? Then they'll keep being wrong!"
-Randall Munroe
by pdl on Dec 4, 2010 12:02 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Listen...I pitty the people who are trying to disect Chael's arguments
using logic and facts…
Staging a counter argument for a Chael rant is LUDICROUS!
Chael is the man!
He could tell a story about taking a big dump and its interesting and insightful…
He is full of Shit…COMPLETELY! But thats not the point…
The dude can fight with anyone…BETTER STAND UP THAN ANDERSON?!!
You bet he beat Anderson’s ass standing…
Chaels reasoning/speak is the equivelant to Andersons standup(when hes winning), just keep watching, you will see artwork that you never heard or saw before.
better stand up huh?
So how many people has he KOed standing?
Answer :0
You’re a mark.
"I wish Anthony Pace was my father just so I could claim to be the fruit of his loins."
"Even Hulkamania wouldn't get you out of this hold"
"True strength is not always shown through victory. Stand up, try again and display strength of heart."
by the-gentle-way on Dec 4, 2010 5:30 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Pretty hard to look bad
when a man drops his hands to his waist and sticks his chin out for you to hit.
"It is hard to free fools from the chains they revere."
Keith may be lying as well.
If he told him don’t worry about it and or its all taken care of but it really wasn’t then he looks bad. He could be covering his ass just as much as people say Chael is.
by SeanyD on Dec 4, 2010 12:01 AM EST up reply actions 2 recs
Yes. That's a big If
Someone is lying. I want to see some heads roll now.
"Turn yourself not away from three best things: Good Thought, Good Word, and Good Deed" - Zoroaster
catch me if you can @ MMA Answers
by SheepleBuster on Dec 4, 2010 12:02 AM EST up reply actions
Heads cant roll when you cant conclusively point a finger at guilty parties
Chael seems to have a valid argument from his side and he has no past roadblocks with the comission so they are inclined to believe him. The fact they are not very familiar with the treatment in question also makes things foggy at best to attack him with much more then a suspension.
Kizer may or may not have talked to Chael, hes in charge of alot of fighters and he can’t risk looking stupid so even if he did meet with him he may lie. He may not even remember Chael if when he talked to him was at the Okami fight because no offense to Sonnen but he just wasn’t that important back then and was on the undercard.
Things are just to iffy to make any sure calls with the data they have.
I believe Chael
Dana White clearly knew, (is there any way he could not have known?) if this thing dates back to 2008 as Chael claims. Keith Kizer and the NSAC are very much “on the same page” as White(who has conveniently completely disengaged himself from this) and I have no doubt the whole thing has just been kept under wraps. It’s not something the UFC would want public either, especially since Chael may actually need this on some level.
www.ninjasplace.com
by Urijah Bieber on Dec 4, 2010 4:41 AM EST up reply actions
Because we have been hearing about this
since 2008.
"It is hard to free fools from the chains they revere."
I don’t ’know why you keep saying 2 years. There is nothing anywhere in ann mma regulation that calls for a 2 year suspension.
I consider MMA a serious sport
if you juice, you get 2 years ban. If not, then we need to change the rules so people don’t dare to cheat anymore
"Turn yourself not away from three best things: Good Thought, Good Word, and Good Deed" - Zoroaster
catch me if you can @ MMA Answers
by SheepleBuster on Dec 4, 2010 12:06 AM EST up reply actions
According to WADA. I don’t really get why you would be so tied up in their rules. They also have had some ridiculous suspensions reduced on appeal, and they ban pot, 2 things you were ranting and raving about yesterday.
It doesn’t matter if it’s a serious sport or not, if they are not subject to WADA rules, WADA rules don’t apply. You are not the one that gets to determine that.
I don't care about WADA
I think the consequences of getting caught should be much more than what it is now. in this sport, people can get really hurt if someone has an unfair advantage. The pot issue is a whole different thing. I thing fighters who don’t use it should be penalized :)
"Turn yourself not away from three best things: Good Thought, Good Word, and Good Deed" - Zoroaster
catch me if you can @ MMA Answers
by SheepleBuster on Dec 4, 2010 12:11 AM EST up reply actions
We’ve had plenty of cases of guys testing positive, and no one has gotten “really hurt” as a result.
Twitter: @Mike_Fagan_13
In fact
athletes in MMA who have tested positive for banned substances have an overall losing record in those fights. Almost 2-1 ratio of losses to wins.
"Someone is WRONG on the internet. What do you want me to do? LEAVE? Then they'll keep being wrong!"
-Randall Munroe
what are you suggesting?
That they are victims?
"Turn yourself not away from three best things: Good Thought, Good Word, and Good Deed" - Zoroaster
catch me if you can @ MMA Answers
by SheepleBuster on Dec 4, 2010 12:21 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
What you have just written is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever read.
May god have mercy on your soul.
"Someone is WRONG on the internet. What do you want me to do? LEAVE? Then they'll keep being wrong!"
-Randall Munroe
by pdl on Dec 4, 2010 12:32 AM EST up reply actions 4 recs
That's your opinion
I am just not getting where you are going. Either juicing gives you an advantage or it doesn’t. Either it is allowed or not allowed. If it is not allowed, don’t try making excuses.
"Turn yourself not away from three best things: Good Thought, Good Word, and Good Deed" - Zoroaster
catch me if you can @ MMA Answers
by SheepleBuster on Dec 4, 2010 12:59 AM EST up reply actions
2 year bans are ridiculous. Most athletes have 10 years at best in this sport, if it was for a repeat offender (see barnett, josh) I could maybe see your point. Evidence that steroids help is not really out there, as pointed out above, most cheaters have losing records. This isn’t like loading your gloves, or illegally wrapping your hands. You run a risk of fighting a stronger guy… that risk exist in every fight.
I could care less if my opponent is roiding, I know its a distinct possibility, as it is in any sport. All I can do is worry about me.
"I’m anti-stalling, not anti-wrestling." - lowellthehammer
He isn’t making excuses. He is throwing water on your “steroids will make you punch holes in peoples heads” argument.
by RoB_ex on Dec 4, 2010 1:18 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
first of all PDL doenst make the banned substances list.
1.His point is positive tests don’t equal a win.
2. Plenty of people have tested positive, not only did they not crush the other persons skull by simply poping it like a grape ,those people actually have a losing record accumulatively for the fights they test hot in.
3.most steroids probably shouldnt be banned.
4. I hope Chael loses all his fans for all his lies ,not his ped use.
"I wish Anthony Pace was my father just so I could claim to be the fruit of his loins."
"Even Hulkamania wouldn't get you out of this hold"
"True strength is not always shown through victory. Stand up, try again and display strength of heart."
by the-gentle-way on Dec 4, 2010 1:40 AM EST up reply actions
now I agree with this
see. there is a way to make points without name calling or insults. I agree with everything you said. I just had a problem with how he worded it. That’s all
"Turn yourself not away from three best things: Good Thought, Good Word, and Good Deed" - Zoroaster
catch me if you can @ MMA Answers
by SheepleBuster on Dec 4, 2010 10:25 AM EST up reply actions
My Philosophy is
If you feel you need the Juice, or HGH or whatever then you are mentally weak and are lacking in the mental quality needed to be successful. People who feel the need for an artificial/external edge suffer from an inferiority complex and are already defeated before they even begin to fight.
I haven’t heard that statistic before but it doesn’t surprise me in the least and just backs the opinion I have had of PED’s all along.
Somone on juice can be broken mentally far more easily than someone who is not.
"It is hard to free fools from the chains they revere."
Wow, dude. Really?
And then God created Saturn... and he liked it, so he put a ring on it.
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no. Not really :)
"Turn yourself not away from three best things: Good Thought, Good Word, and Good Deed" - Zoroaster
catch me if you can @ MMA Answers
by SheepleBuster on Dec 4, 2010 10:26 AM EST up reply actions
Hypocritcism at its finest.
And then God created Saturn... and he liked it, so he put a ring on it.
Twitter me and what not. | SB Nation Bay Area
So just nevermind the simple reality that
while he was of course in violation due to the proper paperwork being filed, if what he and his doctor said under oath about his condition is true, this is just a paperwork issue, not “cheating”?
Is that what you are saying? For one who tries to be so pseudo-open minded about things, you certainly allow the “who” – based on personal feelings alone – influence your thinking far too much.
"Sometimes I wonder if the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on, or by imbeciles who really mean it."
-Mark Twain
"If I tell you I'm good, you would probably think I'm boasting. If I tell you I'm no good, you know I'm lying..."
-Bruce Lee
by The American Ronin on Dec 4, 2010 9:54 AM EST up reply actions
So are we to just ignore the simple fact that
while he was of course in violation of the rules due to the proper paperwork being not being filed, if what he and his doctor said under oath about his condition is true, this is just a paperwork issue, not “cheating”?
Is that what you are saying?
For one who tries to be so pseudo-intellectual and faux-open minded about things, you certainly seem to allow which “things” are at issue, and the “who” is involved, to influence your thinking far too much – based on personal feelings alone.
"Sometimes I wonder if the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on, or by imbeciles who really mean it."
-Mark Twain
"If I tell you I'm good, you would probably think I'm boasting. If I tell you I'm no good, you know I'm lying..."
-Bruce Lee
by The American Ronin on Dec 4, 2010 10:10 AM EST up reply actions
WOAH
Double post – posted once after preview and once after tweaking…SBN has been behaving weirdly today on my computer…
"Sometimes I wonder if the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on, or by imbeciles who really mean it."
-Mark Twain
"If I tell you I'm good, you would probably think I'm boasting. If I tell you I'm no good, you know I'm lying..."
-Bruce Lee
by The American Ronin on Dec 4, 2010 10:11 AM EST up reply actions
You have NO CLUE SHEEP!!
Do you consider NFL football a serious sport???
What percentage of the NFL starters are on what the league defines as PEDS??
What is your guess Sheep?
These guys get tested before every fight…
Also,
Who draws the line between nursing an injury and preparing for a fight…
The line between legal supplement and PED is VERY fine…
Actually, its blurred.
NFL is corrupt
Just take a look at all the nonsense that goes there. And NFL is an American sport. Dana wants MMA to be bigger than soccer. In soccer, tennis, …, truly global sports, the bans are harsh even if you miss your paperwork. I don’t want that. And you missed my earlier point. I am saying, if he lied about Kizer, he probably lied about everything else. That’s what my whole argument is based on
"Turn yourself not away from three best things: Good Thought, Good Word, and Good Deed" - Zoroaster
catch me if you can @ MMA Answers
by SheepleBuster on Dec 4, 2010 10:29 AM EST up reply actions
no they dont.
Its random. Its not before every fight.
"I wish Anthony Pace was my father just so I could claim to be the fruit of his loins."
"Even Hulkamania wouldn't get you out of this hold"
"True strength is not always shown through victory. Stand up, try again and display strength of heart."
by the-gentle-way on Dec 4, 2010 5:32 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
clearly lied?
how? because kizer said the conversation never happened? how does this mean that sonnen lied? why not kizer? he has EVERY reason to deny this conversatoin having ever taken place.
I would agree with you
but it was not Keith Kizer who claimed a Spanish version of him accused Armstrong of using steroids.
"Turn yourself not away from three best things: Good Thought, Good Word, and Good Deed" - Zoroaster
catch me if you can @ MMA Answers
by SheepleBuster on Dec 4, 2010 2:39 PM EST up reply actions
Well ONE OF THEM clearly lied – Chael or Kizer. You’re assuming it was Chael (and we all know why ;)). But technically it’s not fair. ;)
To save me some time on 25% of all threads, here's the universal answer to the Fedor-debate: Fedor is the most accomplished MMA fighter ever. That is a fact. If he still is the best fighter at this point in time is up for debate.
Dana gave the democrats alot of support
I think he’ll give the Obama/Biden tag team a squash match, maybe Couture/McCain.
Dear audio diary: Today I may have accidentally registered myself as a sex offender! WHAT IS WRONG WITH MY LIFE
- T-Rex
Obama/Biden ha...
Not too popular these days…Hilarys not doing so well with the Wikileaks either…
Well. Dana should not ask our president to
support MMA for Olympics. We all know about the kiss of death now. A world cup and Chicago Olympics. These things come in threes.
"Turn yourself not away from three best things: Good Thought, Good Word, and Good Deed" - Zoroaster
catch me if you can @ MMA Answers
by SheepleBuster on Dec 3, 2010 11:57 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
It's still a great fight for me
Just depends on how you look at it. GSP/Penn was marred in controversy, but I still loved it. The Lutter/Silva fight, despite the weight cut miss by Lutter, was still a notable moment in Anderson’s career. Mike Tyson is a convicted rapist but that seems to be lost on most people.
Dear audio diary: Today I may have accidentally registered myself as a sex offender! WHAT IS WRONG WITH MY LIFE
- T-Rex
Mike didnt rape that girl.
Check into the case. He is a pretty bad person. but he didnt rape that girl if you ask me.
"I wish Anthony Pace was my father just so I could claim to be the fruit of his loins."
"Even Hulkamania wouldn't get you out of this hold"
"True strength is not always shown through victory. Stand up, try again and display strength of heart."
by the-gentle-way on Dec 4, 2010 12:57 AM EST up reply actions
Absolutely none of this….
by Jonathan Snowden on Dec 4, 2010 2:23 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
Can you explain what you mean? I really have no clue what you mean probably because I don’t know much about the Tyson rape-thing.
To save me some time on 25% of all threads, here's the universal answer to the Fedor-debate: Fedor is the most accomplished MMA fighter ever. That is a fact. If he still is the best fighter at this point in time is up for debate.
No talking about the rape case is what he means
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by S.C. Michaelson on Dec 4, 2010 8:20 PM EST up reply actions
He emphatically said he didn’t rape THAT girl in his documentary. Then clearly goes on to say he has raped other girls, but not THAT girl. She’s a lying w***e.
When I'm on the mic it goes down, CINTRON
-Joell Ortiz
by The Lethal Haze on Dec 4, 2010 4:02 PM EST up reply actions
I dont think Mike
is raping, personally. His savage demeanor just leaves ’em feeling that way.
"It is hard to free fools from the chains they revere."
Does Sonnen honestly believe that testosterone isn’t a steroid? From Wikipedia:
Testosterone is a steroid hormone…
I understand that he’s trying to distance himself from using it as a “performance enhancer” and all, but it quite literally is a steroid.
Twitter: @Mike_Fagan_13
Well you see Mike
Sonnen is a compulsive LIAR. The best way to tell if Sonnen is lying is to 1. check to see if his lips are moving or 2.if he has written something down.
or Maybe he was just hyping the commission meeting ;-). I mean think of the ppv cut he got from it.
"I wish Anthony Pace was my father just so I could claim to be the fruit of his loins."
"Even Hulkamania wouldn't get you out of this hold"
"True strength is not always shown through victory. Stand up, try again and display strength of heart."
by the-gentle-way on Dec 4, 2010 1:03 AM EST up reply actions
did anyone notice the spanish accent in the video?
"Turn yourself not away from three best things: Good Thought, Good Word, and Good Deed" - Zoroaster
catch me if you can @ MMA Answers
by SheepleBuster on Dec 4, 2010 1:07 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Listen...The only reason why the MMA community should be mad at Sonnen
is because he stayed quiet for a couple months…
The only people who love to hear him out and listen to his rants more than Sonne fans are Sonnen Haters…
That dude can sell anything with words…He is the MAN!
He didn't say it wasn't
He said it was a steroid, but he was trying to imply that it falls into the category on a technicality (a la his cough syrup → alcohol example). Unlike a number of other steroid hormones, testosterone is naturally produced by your body and that is the exact reason he claims to have been using it.
…but anabolic steroids are used in HRT as well, so I’m not really sure I know what he’s taking. Based on his testimony, I think I recall that he wasn’t able to remember the name of the medication or amount he was taking.
My overall take on seeing this unfold is that basically the CSAC is horrifically uninformed the full spectrum of issues here, regardless of whether or not you think Chael is full of shit or has a valid reason for his HRT.
test is anabolic isnt it?
"I wish Anthony Pace was my father just so I could claim to be the fruit of his loins."
"Even Hulkamania wouldn't get you out of this hold"
"True strength is not always shown through victory. Stand up, try again and display strength of heart."
by the-gentle-way on Dec 4, 2010 2:15 AM EST up reply actions
Nandrolone is produced by the body
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by S.C. Michaelson on Dec 4, 2010 3:47 AM EST up reply actions
wikipedia?
are you being serious? here’s how reliable wikipedia is: wikipedia doesn’t allow wikipedia to be used as a reliable source for it’s articles.
While I agree with the sentiment, that’s an awful way of articulating it.
by Superstitiousmma on Dec 4, 2010 3:03 PM EST up reply actions
Also, are you trying to suggest that Wikipedia is incorrect in labeling testosterone a steroid hormone? Because, you know, that’s what it is.
Twitter: @Mike_Fagan_13
He’s just a jaded English professor who thinks a good periodical beats the internet any day.
'cause the heart that betrays itself willingly, Is like a nation that trades freedom for stability, its so seductive to be cold and corrupted and isolated and try to be an independent republic, But liberty to be loved on the surface is worthless, The sacrifice of revolution with no purpose
by ImmortalTechnique92 on Dec 4, 2010 4:43 PM EST up reply actions
lol @ the shirtless joker trying way too hard to get on camera
You know Joe, Brandon Vera is considered to be a Heavyweight George St.Pierre because he just comes, comes, and comes again... -Mike Goldberg, UFC 57
Cheick Kongo looks like a cross between Evander Holyfield and pop singer Seal!
Melvin Guilard looks like a little Kevin Randelman!
-Mike "All black people look alike to me" Goldberg, UFC 62/64
by Jonnycaz2.0 on Dec 4, 2010 4:40 AM EST reply actions 1 recs
I wonder what that "Deal with the federal government" statement was about.
Because I swear he just accused the Feds of election fraud of some kind here, didn’t he? Chael Sonnen accuses the feds of corruption and that’s not even the most controversial topic in the discussion about this.
www.ninjasplace.com
I want to know his excuse for having such high levels
Even with HRT the rule is his TE ratio needs to be under the normal limit. I want to know his excuse for being about 3x over the limit.
by coblo on Dec 4, 2010 8:56 AM EST via mobile reply actions
it would have been nice for the commission to bring that up at some point during the hearing.
I don’t remember the ratio being mentioned at all.
Having a ratio above the standard isn’t evidence of performance enhancers or abuse of testosterone. The total testosterone level was never revealed, and Chael says it was within the normal range. I’d like to see proof that it was above the normal range.
by Hardcharger on Dec 4, 2010 10:31 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
Well, just because Uncle Chael says so
it must be true.
"It is hard to free fools from the chains they revere."
When one is on TRT for legitimate reasons
the T/E ratio will almost never be under 4:1, not that it matters as that ratio says nothing about how much testosterone is in the body, just how much of it is not naturally produced by the body.
The only purpose of the T/E ratio test is to see if someone is likely using anything that would warrant an additional (read: expensive) test (GC/MS in this case I believe).
Overall testosterone levels (which can fluctuate by 30% or more during a single day) cannot be accurately determined from a single urine specimen, which is part of the problem with how to handle TRT/HRT in sports.
"Sometimes I wonder if the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on, or by imbeciles who really mean it."
-Mark Twain
"If I tell you I'm good, you would probably think I'm boasting. If I tell you I'm no good, you know I'm lying..."
-Bruce Lee
by The American Ronin on Dec 4, 2010 12:27 PM EST up reply actions
I don't write articles for no reason
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by S.C. Michaelson on Dec 4, 2010 4:19 PM EST up reply actions
Sonnen seems to assume that none of us watched the hearing. That, or he has a remarkable ability to hear what he wants to hear when other people are speaking.
He got his suspension reduced because he and his lawyers managed to convince California’s commission that their own lines of communication were faulty, and Sonnen therefore was reasonably confused.
It’s also clear that they’re going to take a hard look at TRT. That’s clearly not as clear-cut as Sonnen would have us believe.
So Sonnen is lying to use PEDs ultimately
is that your conclusion?
He’s one hell of a salesmen if he duped the UFC and the commissions into defacto allowing his roid use.
www.ninjasplace.com
by Urijah Bieber on Dec 4, 2010 1:00 PM EST up reply actions
People do it all the time
The wrestling industry, full of men dumber than Chael, fooled doctors all the time. Most guys go doctor shopping.
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by S.C. Michaelson on Dec 4, 2010 4:20 PM EST up reply actions
I have friends (ok, two of them)
Who do or have done this, and they aren’t even athletes. They’re just narcissistic and want to be perceived as bad-ass. They have pharmacies in their houses.
BOOSH
I have friends that have done this for weed (as well as steroids)
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by S.C. Michaelson on Dec 4, 2010 6:04 PM EST up reply actions
Not necessarily
He just says a few things in the Straka interview like “I was cleared on the substance claim.” Really? When?
He may honestly believe he needs this therapy to compete, and perhaps he’s right. I think commissions, though, must try to discern the difference between leveling the field and tilting it. A 16:1 ratio seems excessive to me, but I’m no doctor.
WADA has gone into excruciating detail to determine what’s acceptable:
http://www.wada-ama.org/Documents/Science_Medicine/Medical_info_to_support_TUECs/Male_Hypogonadism_EN.pdf
I’m not sure if that PDF is a position paper or actual WADA protocol, but it suggests that an athlete’s treatment should be reviewed each year, with an independent expert calling the shots.
So if Chael were still wrestling, he couldn’t just show up with a doctor’s note one day and then claim further disclosures were “redundant.”
Be nice to get some journos to call Chael on his BS
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by S.C. Michaelson on Dec 4, 2010 8:21 PM EST up reply actions
STFU
Chael needs to learn to summarize and stop acting so guilty.
I personaly don’t care. I know why he took the roids and I still
don’t consider it cheating. Roids are smart if you are training
MMA at an intense high level due to injury etc. Fuckin cycle
properly next time and STFU.
Had he simply
not taken an injection within 3 weeks of the testing, it is unlikely his T/E would be elevated to the 4:1 ratio necessary to trigger follow-up testing that actually detects the presence of AAS’. He could have even walked out of the pre-fight testing room and immediately taken an injection then if he so desired as I don’t think CSAC does post-fight testing (which they should).
"Sometimes I wonder if the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on, or by imbeciles who really mean it."
-Mark Twain
"If I tell you I'm good, you would probably think I'm boasting. If I tell you I'm no good, you know I'm lying..."
-Bruce Lee
by The American Ronin on Dec 4, 2010 12:39 PM EST up reply actions
I posted part of this in an excellent SCM article on WKR, but
First 2 examples were part of the original article, but these examples show the difficulty in dealing with the issue. Note, normal range varies by lab, bur Quest uses 300-1100 ng/dl IIRC.
—Fighter A (medically legit need for TRT) – T/E ratio =15:1 (at time of test), total testosterone (at time of test, but not tested for) 800 ng/dl
—Fighter B (guy who wants to cheat) – T/E ratio = 15.1 (at time of test, total testosterone (at time of test, but not tested for) 5500ng/dl
—Fighter C (using Test Cyp without legitimate medical need) – T/E ratio of 3.5:1 (at the time of test, total testosterone 3500ng/dl). Not even flagged for further follow-up testing to determine presence of anabolic steroids.
ALSO:
IMO, a pretty simple solution that should satisfy anyone involved (aside from those cheating) is that if a TUE (therapeutic use exemption) is going to be allowed for TRT in MMA (or any sport), it should be contingent on the athlete getting and submitting to the AC doctors weekly blood tests showing either total or (preferably) bioavailable T levels.
This is to be done throughout the year, at the fighter’s expense, and at labs approved by the ACs.
Also, at least at the highest levels of the sport, the more expensive steroid test should be used at all fights, to prevent the “fighter #3” scenario above.
"Sometimes I wonder if the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on, or by imbeciles who really mean it."
-Mark Twain
"If I tell you I'm good, you would probably think I'm boasting. If I tell you I'm no good, you know I'm lying..."
-Bruce Lee
by The American Ronin on Dec 4, 2010 12:37 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
Look, testosterone is a steroid hormone, If he had low testerone levels and was just taking the testosterone to reach normal levels, then the test would’ve come back clean. The reason he it was showed he was on testosterone is because he had hightened levels, therfore he was on steroids.
That is just not in anyway correct, aside
from testosterone being a steroid hormone.
"Sometimes I wonder if the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on, or by imbeciles who really mean it."
-Mark Twain
"If I tell you I'm good, you would probably think I'm boasting. If I tell you I'm no good, you know I'm lying..."
-Bruce Lee
by The American Ronin on Dec 4, 2010 1:19 PM EST up reply actions
He'd have been on steroids anyway according to the first sentence of your reply wouldn't he?
and further, according to Dodd the issue was the test revealing an exogenous source of testosterone. The only thing I can take from this process reasonably is that his levels were not elevated since they were unable to produce any test results otherwise and made the issue exogenous test and not elevated test.
Sonnen may have been previously convicted in the court of public opinion but I have seen little in the way of honest analysis on this from pundits internet wide. Sonnen was guilty coming in, and anything he and his lawyers said were dismissed, and the bumbling nature of this commission has been a convenient way to avoid giving Sonnen the benefit of the doubt.
I believe in Chael Sonnen.
www.ninjasplace.com
by Urijah Bieber on Dec 4, 2010 1:23 PM EST up reply actions
I believe in Chael Sonnen.
and at this point, you are also a broken record. Keep defending your boy though, he needs it
When I'm on the mic it goes down, CINTRON
-Joell Ortiz
by The Lethal Haze on Dec 4, 2010 4:19 PM EST up reply actions
How do you defend a guy’s defense that is pretty much solely based on his character when he’s such a consistent liar?
His character in the weeks leading up to a PPV he was selling
isn’t reflective of his entire humanity. I am surprised people are so hung up on all that stuff. Anyway, his defense is on the HRT being previously approved and disclosed multiple times to the State of California.
www.ninjasplace.com
by Urijah Bieber on Dec 4, 2010 5:29 PM EST up reply actions
Aside from the obvious lies he tells to sell a fight there’s the made up conversation he had with Keith Kizer that you seem to be forgetting among other things. You seem to overlook the obvious fact that he stood the most to gain from cheating. I still haven’t heard anything for him to defend why his T/E ratio was 4 times the limit and considering that he was allowed to inject himself (why I don’t know) the incentive and opportunity to cheat were both there why his defense became a focus on whether or not his balls have dropped is still a mystery to me.
You are presupposing that Chael is the one lying
when that has hardly been proven. The UFC has known since at least 2008 about this, and Kizer does whatever the UFC needs them to. I have no doubts this whole thing could have been brushed under the rug.
Further, his levels were not four times the limit. He was within the limit but failed a test because it indicated an “exogenous source of testosterone”. This is straight from George Dodd’s mouth who argued the case against him.
My advice – watch the conference.
www.ninjasplace.com
by Urijah Bieber on Dec 4, 2010 6:54 PM EST up reply actions
You are presupposing that he is not lying from analysis of his character the facts are that Keith Kizer says he never had the conversation the fact that the UFC knew that a fighter that they promote and make money off of was doing anything is irrelevant if Dana White knew that doesn’t automatically mean Keith Kizer knows in fact it would be more logical to think the UFC would keep their mouth shut about the entire thing. Your conspiracy theory that Kizer has any reason to lie about it lacks motive.
Further I said his ratio was 4 times the limit
the data of how much synthetic testosterone was in his blood before the fight is missing. Regardless he was over the threshold allowed under California standards and has not given any explanation to that rather he lies about not knowing whether or not testosterone was a steroid or that he’s under suspension for not filing the right paperwork.
My advice— don’t believe everything a politician says
Look, we all know Custer died at the Battle of Little Bighorn.
But what this book presupposes is: what if he didn’t?
BOOSH
by Farthammer on Dec 4, 2010 7:18 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Further, his levels were not four times the limit. He was within the limit but failed a test because it indicated an "exogenous source of testosterone". This is straight from George Dodd’s mouth who argued the case against him.
This is incorrect on many levels. 1. His total testosterone level was unknown BY ANYONE because they don’t do blood testing. 2. His T/E ratio was above the normal limit which is why they did the IRMS testing to determin if he had fake testosterone. 3. George Dodd didn’t argue the case against him.
You gonna troll, get the facts right.
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by S.C. Michaelson on Dec 4, 2010 7:15 PM EST up reply actions 3 recs
My mistake, it was the assistant attorney general who stated that on the 2nd. Not Dodd.
I was also under the impression that his “serum testosterone levels” were not above normal based on viewing the meeting. Also, if he had taken a required dose the day before, then that provides a reasonable explanation why his levels would still possibly test high. Which would still mean his level doesn’t indicate cheating automatically. I’m basing my opinion on the commission hearing. I’d like to see the information you have though on the exact process Sonnen went through during his testing and what tests he took specifically.
And facts have never kept you from trolling before, SC. The goose-gander effect comes into play here I think.
www.ninjasplace.com
by Urijah Bieber on Dec 4, 2010 8:40 PM EST up reply actions
“if he had taken a required dose the day before, then that provides a reasonable explanation why his levels would still possibly test high”
Not at all, his defense is that he’s taking TRT to bring his testosterone levels within normal limits. Furthermore there’s no way that in the two years since he started undergoing TRT that his doctor wouldn’t have found the correct doses.
WE HAVE NO IDEA
What his actual level is/was. Levels do peak 72 hours after the injection however…
"Sometimes I wonder if the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on, or by imbeciles who really mean it."
-Mark Twain
"If I tell you I'm good, you would probably think I'm boasting. If I tell you I'm no good, you know I'm lying..."
-Bruce Lee
by The American Ronin on Dec 4, 2010 10:31 PM EST up reply actions
I still haven’t heard anything for him to defend why his T/E ratio was 4 times the limit
That is what the entire hearing was about, given that he admitted the use on the pre-test forms.
and considering that he was allowed to inject himself (why I don’t know)
TRT is generally self-administered.
"Sometimes I wonder if the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on, or by imbeciles who really mean it."
-Mark Twain
"If I tell you I'm good, you would probably think I'm boasting. If I tell you I'm no good, you know I'm lying..."
-Bruce Lee
by The American Ronin on Dec 5, 2010 1:54 AM EST up reply actions
But he didnt admit to it on pre-test forms.
TRT is generally self administered? Are you fucking kidding me?
So not only is it acceptable for this guy to shoot pure testosterone into his ass twice a week and fight for a living, but he is allowed to shoot it himself into his own ass?!?
If your trying to defend this guy you are doing a remarkably shitty job.
"It is hard to free fools from the chains they revere."
If you would just do a little research before posting you wouldn't look nearly so ignorant.
Yes, TRT (generally testosterone cypionate in the US) IS self administered, either in the glute or the outer portion of the quads. It is purchased at any pharmacy with a valid prescription, and it comes in 10ml vials at 100mg/ml (usually for pediatric cases) or 200mg/ml.
I’m sorry if it doesn’t make sense to you, that doesn’t change the reality of it.
"Sometimes I wonder if the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on, or by imbeciles who really mean it."
-Mark Twain
"If I tell you I'm good, you would probably think I'm boasting. If I tell you I'm no good, you know I'm lying..."
-Bruce Lee
by The American Ronin on Dec 5, 2010 4:07 PM EST up reply actions
It makes perfect sense, I have just never shot any juice
and know very few people that do.
It just comes as a shock to me that an athlete competing in professional sports also undergoing TRT is allowed to oversee his own injections.
Not everyone knows the ins and outs of legally obtaining juice, and just because I don’t doesn’t make me or anyone else ignorant, dick.
"It is hard to free fools from the chains they revere."
Didn’t call you ignorant, I said it made you look ignorant, as does your name calling.
There are significant issues to granting a TUEC for professional athlete because of the risk of abuse. WADA publishes guidelines for granting such an exemption, but I am not aware of any athletic commissions having them, although they are absolutely necessary.
"Sometimes I wonder if the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on, or by imbeciles who really mean it."
-Mark Twain
"If I tell you I'm good, you would probably think I'm boasting. If I tell you I'm no good, you know I'm lying..."
-Bruce Lee
by The American Ronin on Dec 6, 2010 10:18 PM EST up reply actions
Except he did FFS
But he didnt admit to it on pre-test forms.
"Sometimes I wonder if the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on, or by imbeciles who really mean it."
-Mark Twain
"If I tell you I'm good, you would probably think I'm boasting. If I tell you I'm no good, you know I'm lying..."
-Bruce Lee
by The American Ronin on Dec 5, 2010 4:10 PM EST up reply actions
so why in the good christly fuck
is Sonnen the one explaining WHY HE DIDNT TELL ANYONE ABOUT THIS?
"It is hard to free fools from the chains they revere."
Because at the end of the day it is a paperwork issue, always has been, and no matter how little grasp you have of the situation, that basic fact is unchanged.
"Sometimes I wonder if the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on, or by imbeciles who really mean it."
-Mark Twain
"If I tell you I'm good, you would probably think I'm boasting. If I tell you I'm no good, you know I'm lying..."
-Bruce Lee
by The American Ronin on Dec 5, 2010 8:51 PM EST up reply actions
No, it isn't. No matter how many times you say it is.
That is GREAT you found the form he submitted as he was taking a piss test. just like I said above, this isn’t the form I, or the CSAC, or anyone who thinks he is guilty is asking for.
2 seperate forms, get it? The one where you disclose what you have been taking for your medicals, the one THAT EVERY UFC FIGHTER HAS TO FILL OUT BEFORE COMPETING. NOT THE FORM FOR A PISS TEST that ONLY PEOPLE GETTING TESTED FILL OUT.
Not every athlete gets tested at an event, get it? Every athlete does have to fill out pre-fight medical forms. Where they would disclose things that may be in their system. CHAEL DID NOT DO THIS WHEN HE WAS SUPPOSED TO.
Clear enough?
"It is hard to free fools from the chains they revere."
And again
Complete contrary to your initial rant, at the end of the day, this is a paperwork issue – he is in violation without the proper TUECs and is suspended for his stupidity.
"Sometimes I wonder if the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on, or by imbeciles who really mean it."
-Mark Twain
"If I tell you I'm good, you would probably think I'm boasting. If I tell you I'm no good, you know I'm lying..."
-Bruce Lee
by The American Ronin on Dec 6, 2010 7:54 PM EST up reply actions
Really? The official resaon for Suspension is
“Stupidity?”
Because I thought it was “Steroids.”
Just kidding, I don’t think it was.
It was, for real.
Suspended for stupidity? Really man? And you have the unmitigated audacity to call me dense?
Good christ.
"It is hard to free fools from the chains they revere."
Ha!
I said nothing about “officially”, but that could be read that way – hopefully even you know how to take it – by stupidly not completing the proper paperwork to receive a TUEC.
"Sometimes I wonder if the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on, or by imbeciles who really mean it."
-Mark Twain
"If I tell you I'm good, you would probably think I'm boasting. If I tell you I'm no good, you know I'm lying..."
-Bruce Lee
by The American Ronin on Dec 6, 2010 9:00 PM EST up reply actions
Pre-Test forms.
“PRE” -Earlier; before; prior to: prehistoric.
So “Pre” means “Before” get it?
Not “AS YOU ARE BEING TESTED.”
Throw around all the insults you want man it doesn’t change the fact Chael pissed hot for steroids, is busted, is serving out his sentence for pissing hot, and will forever be remembered as a dirty steroid using cheater.
I’m sorry it hurts you so, so badly. You can just keep watching him fight badly and get beat by people with skill who don’t juice, I’m sure that will help.
"It is hard to free fools from the chains they revere."
No insults, just reality. Doesn’t hurt me in the slightest – I am about as far from a Sonnen fan as you can get – look at my posting history around here. I can’t stand his douchey behavior, but my dislike of him doesn’t change the reality of the situation here – a reality you are either unwilling or unable to grasp.
You argued there was no paperwork, I pointed out the obvious, and now you say “no, no, not THAT paperwork”
You clearly have no clue what you are talking about in this circumstance, so I really don’t know any other way to explain it such that you can understand it.
"Sometimes I wonder if the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on, or by imbeciles who really mean it."
-Mark Twain
"If I tell you I'm good, you would probably think I'm boasting. If I tell you I'm no good, you know I'm lying..."
-Bruce Lee
by The American Ronin on Dec 6, 2010 7:53 PM EST up reply actions
No, I can assure you, you are the only one confused here.
It was pretty much common knowledge he admitted to the juice at the time of the test.
You were very, very confused in thinking I wanted proof of his admission of guilt during his test. Thanks though. Maybe work on the reading comprehension a little? Do a little research? Hmmm? Poor little guy. I bet you were all fired up when you posted Chaels “One shot of testosterone” sheet huh? Did it feel good? Poor little guy.
You were the one who was so adamant that he did indeed inform someone, ANYONE that he was on TRT and needed to juice up hard so he could fight.
Which he certainly did not do, as we can see by your lack of ANYTHING.
"It is hard to free fools from the chains they revere."
I guess this was a reply fail, intended for someone else as it has nothing to do with my points.
It was pretty much common knowledge he admitted to the juice at the time of the test.
Agreed, and never said otherwise.
You were very, very confused in thinking I wanted proof of his admission of guilt during his test.
Not sure where you imagined this one…lulz
You were the one who was so adamant that he did indeed inform someone, ANYONE that he was on TRT and needed to juice up hard so he could fight.
I did nothing of the sort – you insisted it was not a paperwork issue, when it clearly was and is.
"Sometimes I wonder if the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on, or by imbeciles who really mean it."
-Mark Twain
"If I tell you I'm good, you would probably think I'm boasting. If I tell you I'm no good, you know I'm lying..."
-Bruce Lee
by The American Ronin on Dec 6, 2010 9:05 PM EST up reply actions
And we are all very impressed by your library of knowledge
regarding Testosterone, and Juice, and fake juice, and how you can get fake juice, and this means that, and that means this, and blah blah blah ima bighead.
All of this shit means absolutely nothing man. Squat. Jack shit.
Chael is busted for juice, not stupidity.
He failed a drug test, not an IQ test.
You act like the validation of all your steroid knowledge is somehow tied up with Chael’s innocence. It’s kind of wierd, actuallly.
"It is hard to free fools from the chains they revere."
As you will discover upon spending more time here at BE, at least until you get banned,
People here, myself included, prefer to deal in facts and accurate information, and those of us who can shed light on certain subjects do so when applicable.
You really should go back to sherdog or junkie or where ever you lurked before last week – your kind of approach is neither wanted nor appreciated here.
"Sometimes I wonder if the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on, or by imbeciles who really mean it."
-Mark Twain
"If I tell you I'm good, you would probably think I'm boasting. If I tell you I'm no good, you know I'm lying..."
-Bruce Lee
by The American Ronin on Dec 6, 2010 9:08 PM EST up reply actions
My Rec's disagree with you.
This is not a paperwork issue.
This is a “Suspended for foreign substance in the pee-pee” issue.
This whole TUE form or whatever the fuck is just a smokeshow. You can keep on keepin on man.
Fact is Chael had this ready to go in his back pocket as an excuse for juicing, just like every other asshat before him who has used it for the exact same purpose.
he definately tried to make it about paperwork, but unfortunately for him the CSAC saw through his wall of bullshit and didn’t overturn anything.
Suspension for having evidence of juice in the Pee Pee stands.
Imaginary “I didn’t fill out a form” put forth by Ronin is blowing away in the wind.
"It is hard to free fools from the chains they revere."
And I'm probably going to say "no, not that paperwork"
When you are providing the paperwork I didn’t ask for.
That doesn’t make sense to you, or…?
"It is hard to free fools from the chains they revere."
You foolish state its not a paperwork issue, when anyone with even a modicum of knowledge of the process knows it is. You insisted there was no paperwork, I proved otherwise, and now your panties are even more knotted than before…
"Sometimes I wonder if the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on, or by imbeciles who really mean it."
-Mark Twain
"If I tell you I'm good, you would probably think I'm boasting. If I tell you I'm no good, you know I'm lying..."
-Bruce Lee
by The American Ronin on Dec 6, 2010 9:10 PM EST up reply actions
I feel like I am trying to explain economics to a 14-year old...
If your trying to defend this guy you are doing a remarkably shitty job.
I’m sorry, there are some things that can only be simplified so much without losing their meaning, and idk how to dumb this down any more for you.
"Sometimes I wonder if the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on, or by imbeciles who really mean it."
-Mark Twain
"If I tell you I'm good, you would probably think I'm boasting. If I tell you I'm no good, you know I'm lying..."
-Bruce Lee
by The American Ronin on Dec 5, 2010 4:12 PM EST up reply actions
Oh, ok I got it.
Sonnen isn’t guilty because he said “hey I’m on the juice!” on this form?
He did not notify them prior to the time they were actually taking the piss out of his body to be looked at is what I’m saying. Show me THAT form, please.
“Oh, pissing in this cup reminds me, I forgot to tell you guys I’m on steroids. better write that one down.” Fuck off man.
So I stand by it. At no time prior to him actually pissing in the cup did he notify anyone that mattered he was jacking testosterone twice a week.
By himself. With no one around to verify the amount he was injecting. For all we or even Chaels doctor knows he could have shot 2 months worth of Test into his ass instead of 1 weeks worth.
So yea, in your horrible defense of Chael you have actually pointed out something even worse about this whole thing:
That over the course of his treatment, Chael was actually giving HIMSELF the injections completely unsupervised by any physician or governing athletic body.
yea, you definately just made it worse for him, not better. Nice job.
"It is hard to free fools from the chains they revere."
Is english not your first language
or are you really this stupid? I’m not trying to defend Sonnen, he is an a-hole in general, and I couldn’t care less. I would be making the same argument against the ignorance of the subject no matter who the fighter was – I’m simply trying to stick to the facts of the case instead of the sort of head-up-your-ass believing what you imagine to be the facts.
I said NOTHING about when he completed the form, other than it was pre-fight. Your dumb ass is the one that kept saying there was no form. Then, when I show you the form, you change it to “well, he didn’t show it far enough in advance”.
Give it up – do you really not realize how stupid you make yourself look doing this? You clearly have no grasp of the facts of the case, and are too lazy to find out the reality for yourself, yet you foolishly continue to argue something you clearly know nothing about. I can only assume you are a butthurt Anderson fan, as am I (less the butthurt part – what happened is exactly what I said would happen in that fight).
By himself. With no one around to verify the amount he was injecting. For all we or even Chaels doctor knows he could have shot 2 months worth of Test into his ass instead of 1 weeks worth.
This is true to a degree in that no one truly knows exactly how much he injected that day. The only thing we can reasonably know is that he is prescribed a certain amount over a certain time and he can’t refill that until the allotted time passes, like almost any other rx drug.
You seem to have some serious delusions about what effect testosterone has, even at higher than normal range. It does not provide superhuman strength or endurance or anything else like that, it simply allows your body to recover more quickly from training.
"Sometimes I wonder if the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on, or by imbeciles who really mean it."
-Mark Twain
"If I tell you I'm good, you would probably think I'm boasting. If I tell you I'm no good, you know I'm lying..."
-Bruce Lee
by The American Ronin on Dec 5, 2010 8:46 PM EST up reply actions
It's not true to a degree.
It’s just true.
“Testotsterone simply allows your body to recover quickly from training”?
No? it doesn’t increase aggression, increase bone density, decrease immediate muscle recovery time allowing for a more intense workload (i.e. holding someone down and throwing punches)?
None of that would be of benefit in a fight. No, certainly not at all.
"It is hard to free fools from the chains they revere."
Not really sure why I'm wasting my time when you clearly know nothing of the subject and are unwilling to learn, but...
You clear ascribe some sort of magical powers to TRT.
I guess the part you can’t grasp is there is a huge difference between the sort of normalization of testosterone that takes place with TRT like Sonnen is prescribed and the effects of doses 10x, 20x or more that bodybuilders and powerlifters use.
Aggression? Exactly as aggressive as he would be without his testosterone deficiency. Of course it happens at very high levels 10x or 20x proper dosing – far beyond TRT.
Increased bone density? In the sense that he would otherwise be vulnerable to osteoporosis – a common occurrence with testosterone deficiency, sure, but not to some super-human levels.
decrease immediate muscle recovery time allowing for a more intense workload (i.e. holding someone down and throwing punches)?
This is not in any way how this works. Increased recovery refers to repairing the microtears in muscle fibers that occur during training – a process of many hours, not minutes or seconds.
So, in summary, no – there would be no in-fight benefit whatsoever above what the same testosterone levels naturally occurring would provide.
"Sometimes I wonder if the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on, or by imbeciles who really mean it."
-Mark Twain
"If I tell you I'm good, you would probably think I'm boasting. If I tell you I'm no good, you know I'm lying..."
-Bruce Lee
by The American Ronin on Dec 6, 2010 7:22 PM EST up reply actions
Ok man, you got it.
Shooting testosterone into your ass on the regular would have no benefit to anyone in a fight like, ever, at all. You win.
And we all saw Chael shooting just the right amount into his ass, didn’t we? So there is no way in hell he could ever, ever EVER possibly abuse that situation at all, could he?
It’s not like a professional fighter taking on the greatest undefeated UFC champion of all time while simultaneously talking an unpreceneted amount of shit would ever be tempted to do something like that.
Chael is innocent, the American Ronin has made me see the light.
"It is hard to free fools from the chains they revere."
The irony in that is
he might well have cheated, wouldn’t surprise me in the slightest, but there is zero proof to date.
"Sometimes I wonder if the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on, or by imbeciles who really mean it."
-Mark Twain
"If I tell you I'm good, you would probably think I'm boasting. If I tell you I'm no good, you know I'm lying..."
-Bruce Lee
by The American Ronin on Dec 6, 2010 7:56 PM EST up reply actions
I was talking about ATP's and the like
Not tear recovery. The whole point of Juicing isn’t to get big like magic. They allow you to take on a larger workload, more reps, more gains, and yes less recovery time for tears.
" there would be no in-fight benefit whatsoever above what the same testosterone levels naturally occurring would provide."
Numbnuts. Thw whole point is that he is WAY ABOVE “naturally occuring levels.”
Duurrrrr You wont get any gains from fake juice if its just the same as the natural juice in your body Durrrrr!
Really? I never would have guessed that professor.
"It is hard to free fools from the chains they revere."
This little nugget of ignorance sums you up I guess
Thw whole point is that he is WAY ABOVE "naturally occuring levels."
I realize that is your point, my point is there is ZERO evidence he was. None. Nada. The only evidence is that he had synthetic testosterone in his body. No matter how much your little mind wishes to imagine otherwise, that is just not how it works.
"Sometimes I wonder if the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on, or by imbeciles who really mean it."
-Mark Twain
"If I tell you I'm good, you would probably think I'm boasting. If I tell you I'm no good, you know I'm lying..."
-Bruce Lee
by The American Ronin on Dec 6, 2010 9:13 PM EST up reply actions
And what was that evidence, exactly? How did they determine he had synthetic Test in his body?
Refresh my memory? Didn’t it have to do with something being alot higher than normal?
What was that thing again? The thing that was way higher then normal?
"It is hard to free fools from the chains they revere."
I didn't change shit.
You posted a form that had no relevence to the conversation whatsoever.
What we, and everyone else has been talking about isn’t the form that you fill out when you take a piss test, no matter how much you want it to be.
The form we want is the form Chael has filled out probably 2 dozen times in his career? The one he says that he “Doesn’t understand”? and “I told Kieth all about it and he said it was cool that I didn’t”?
That form. Post it now please.
"It is hard to free fools from the chains they revere."
If he had low testerone levels and was just taking the testosterone to reach normal levels, then the test would’ve come back clean
No, the testing is for the presence of synthetic testosterone, it does not address the actual levels of testosterone in the body, so no conclusions about the actual levels can be derived from it.
"Sometimes I wonder if the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on, or by imbeciles who really mean it."
-Mark Twain
"If I tell you I'm good, you would probably think I'm boasting. If I tell you I'm no good, you know I'm lying..."
-Bruce Lee
by The American Ronin on Dec 5, 2010 1:51 AM EST up reply actions
Has Chael ever tested high before?
If he has and it was allowed because of his ‘condition’ then that would somewhat vindicate him.
If he hasn’t then it wouldn’t make any sense why he would be that elevated for the Anderson fight.
I was never accused OR suspected
of taking an illegal substance. **waves hand in face, ‘pay no mind to the suspension or fine’….
It should be noted:
That Chael explicitly states in the video that he is aware that Testosterone is a steroid. But, he makes the comparison that it is a steroid just like mouthwash is alcohol. And, that his use of Testosterone is not the same as steroid use in the realm of performance enhancement.
How so?
If he needs it he needs it.
www.ninjasplace.com
by Urijah Bieber on Dec 4, 2010 5:29 PM EST up reply actions
A better analogy would be to major painkillers. Testosterone isn’t a watered-down steroid. It is a steroid. If Chael needs to it to function, he can be prescribed it like people are prescribed pain medication. (And as a corollary, there are plenty of doctors willing to prescribe painkillers to people who don’t need them.) Comparing testosterone to mouthwash is a gross distortion of the truth.
Twitter: @Mike_Fagan_13
I think you misunderstood his premise
He is comparing recreational alcohol use to using cough syrup or mouthwash or some product with alcohol in it.
www.ninjasplace.com
by Urijah Bieber on Dec 4, 2010 6:20 PM EST up reply actions
No.
Testosterone is one of, if not the, most popular steroid used for PEDs.
Mouthwash is not.
It’s a stupid analogy.
Reppin' the NYMMAI.
Black Lesnar aka Slap ya Favorite MMA Writer
Follow me on Twitter
Read me at WatchKalibRun . Imma write til the wheels fall off.
by S.C. Michaelson on Dec 4, 2010 6:22 PM EST up reply actions
He is saying it in regards to the the context in which he is using it
Medicine/legit use vs PED/abused substance. In that regards the analogy is totally valid.
but ya, if it’s another reason to beat up on Sonnen, there will be no stopping people from deliberately pretending not to understand what his analogy means. I get that.
www.ninjasplace.com
by Urijah Bieber on Dec 4, 2010 6:50 PM EST up reply actions
No. He never mentioned abuse.
At all.
Reppin' the NYMMAI.
Black Lesnar aka Slap ya Favorite MMA Writer
Follow me on Twitter
Read me at WatchKalibRun . Imma write til the wheels fall off.
by S.C. Michaelson on Dec 4, 2010 7:16 PM EST up reply actions
Mike he was just making a comparison between an abused
substance that also has legitimate uses. In that, the comparison is valid and it doesn’t require further analysis. Whether or not the comparison is exactly valid on every point is immaterial to the greater issue here. I don’t see why we are getting hung up on this, unless we are just looking to dissect Sonnen’s every move under a microscope.
www.ninjasplace.com
by Urijah Bieber on Dec 4, 2010 7:00 PM EST up reply actions
C'mon man.
His analogy was terrible and your logic backing it is just as.
He was saying (Im giving him alot of credit here) it in the sense he needs it to keep his breff un-stank and not to get drunk.
So he needs the Testosterone in the sense that he needs it for a medically sound reason and not to gain any of the advantages a massive TEST boost will give you.
That logic fails on so many levels I don’t even know where to begin. And in defending it you fail by proxy, big words or no.
"It is hard to free fools from the chains they revere."
However
To not give him credit, i find this explanation much more likely:
He is trying to convince us that just because it’s in steroids, and it can be used as a steroid, doesn’t mean HE’S using it as a steroid.
There is a very miniscule amount of alcohol in mouthwash, and he is saying calling Testosterone Steroids is like calling Listerine Johnny Walker.
Massive fallacy, if I inject testosterone like a mufucka and work out I am going to see sick, SICK gains. Much like I would if I was injecting another designer drug, Winsterol, Stanoz, whatever.
On the flip side, if I start drinking Colgate to get my load on it’s gonna take awhile before I start to go blind. I may even start puking blood before I get a buzz. BUT if I grab that 5th of Captain Morgan and start pounding I’ll be wasted before I see the bottom of that glass.
Testosterone & Anabolic Synthetics- Equally effective in producing gains and enhancing performance.
Johnny Walker Blue & Listerine- Not equally effective in erasing your memories and making you wake in the bed of a dirty, dirty creature. I would go so far as a 1000:1 ratio in effectiveness rating.
Feel free to wonder why we are getting so hung up on this now that your logic has been shattered.
"It is hard to free fools from the chains they revere."
That is an awful lot of effort to discredit the nuances of an analogy
that applies regardless of whatever you’ve said here. The intend of the analogy is clear and replies like yours are a strange waste of energy.
www.ninjasplace.com
by Urijah Bieber on Dec 4, 2010 8:49 PM EST up reply actions
An awful lot of effort
for a weak mind, I suppose. One mans mild diversion is another mans Inception.
Calling people out on their bullshit is a hobby I enjoy. Don’t bullshit if you don’t want to be called on it.
"It is hard to free fools from the chains they revere."
Oh FFS, yours has to be the deepest bullshit I have seen defended around here in some time
Calling people out on their bullshit is a hobby I enjoy. Don’t bullshit if you don’t want to be called on it.
I literally laughed out loud when I read this.
"Sometimes I wonder if the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on, or by imbeciles who really mean it."
-Mark Twain
"If I tell you I'm good, you would probably think I'm boasting. If I tell you I'm no good, you know I'm lying..."
-Bruce Lee
by The American Ronin on Dec 5, 2010 4:15 PM EST up reply actions
Sheesh...really?!?
Sorry, but testosterone in the amounts used in TRT are not going to result in “sick, SICK gains” and assuming they are prescribed and used as directed, Chael Sonnen would experience no better gains than he would if he had the same testosterone level naturally.
400mg every two weeks is a typical higher end prescribed dose (generally starts at 200mg every 2-4 weeks).
Try looking on some of the powerlifting or bodybuilding forums and you will see that 1000mg per week is the bare minimum starting amount, and that only if part of a stack of other, stronger steroids.
Not sure where you are coming up with all of this rubbish…
"Sometimes I wonder if the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on, or by imbeciles who really mean it."
-Mark Twain
"If I tell you I'm good, you would probably think I'm boasting. If I tell you I'm no good, you know I'm lying..."
-Bruce Lee
by The American Ronin on Dec 4, 2010 10:42 PM EST up reply actions
I wan't discussing the amount used in TRT
I was discussing if I jack equal amounts of TEST and some other steroid (1000mg, 2000mg 10,000mg, whatever the fuck) I’ll probably see effectiveness out of both. Unlike trying to get drunk off off listerine and whiskey, you probably won’t see the same effectiveness out of the listerine.
Horrible. Analogy.
“Inject testosterone like a muhfucka” does not equate to “amounts used in TRT.” Why in gods name would you think it does?
"It is hard to free fools from the chains they revere."
Are you 12 or something?
"Inject testosterone like a muhfucka" does not equate to "amounts used in TRT." Why in gods name would you think it does?
Considering the only testosterone being discussed in this situation is that used in TRT, this being about Sonnen and all, what the fuck else would I be addressing?
I ignored the inane analogies, they weren’t addressed at all in my reply.
"Sometimes I wonder if the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on, or by imbeciles who really mean it."
-Mark Twain
"If I tell you I'm good, you would probably think I'm boasting. If I tell you I'm no good, you know I'm lying..."
-Bruce Lee
by The American Ronin on Dec 5, 2010 8:50 PM EST up reply actions
The criteria for prescribing steroids (testosterone) are far more clear cut
than those for painkillers. Painkillers are simply a judgment call, TRT has to meet specific, testable criteria before they are allowed to prescribe them.
"Sometimes I wonder if the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on, or by imbeciles who really mean it."
-Mark Twain
"If I tell you I'm good, you would probably think I'm boasting. If I tell you I'm no good, you know I'm lying..."
-Bruce Lee
by The American Ronin on Dec 4, 2010 10:35 PM EST up reply actions
Wanna make a sig bet?
Dana knows a money maker when he sees it. Sonnen will eventually get a shot by the end of 2011.
Besides, the casual fans don’t know about this scandal and could give a fuck less. All they remember Chael as is the guy that put on a great performance against Silva and came inches away from beating him.
You know that he supposedly already has a fight with Wandy signed?
And a coaching bid on TUF to go with it. Winner gets title shot.
www.ninjasplace.com
by Urijah Bieber on Dec 4, 2010 5:18 PM EST up reply actions
Sonnen is going to do the next TUF — that’s why his future plans are ‘secret.’
Blessed are the young, for they shall inherit the national debt.
They've leaked and Sonnen's twitter has smack already up and running.
BE behind the curve on this big time.
www.ninjasplace.com
by Urijah Bieber on Dec 4, 2010 5:21 PM EST up reply actions
http://twitter.com/sonnench
Never let the truth of whether this is a real twitter or not cloud how awesome this story is.
www.ninjasplace.com
by Urijah Bieber on Dec 4, 2010 5:27 PM EST up reply actions
i can tell you what his surprise is...
he will be a TUF coach.
It's obvious. Dana has no problem "making money"
Reppin' the NYMMAI.
Black Lesnar aka Slap ya Favorite MMA Writer
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Read me at WatchKalibRun . Imma write til the wheels fall off.
by S.C. Michaelson on Dec 4, 2010 7:17 PM EST up reply actions
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