Is Brock Lesnar Running Away From the UFC?
by Nate Wilcox on Dec 28, 2010 5:19 PM EST
in UFC Analysis
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A little over a year ago I posted Zach Arnold's supposition that Brock Lesnar would ultimately wander away from the UFC just as he has wandered away from every other endeavor he's pursued in his career.
The response was uniformly negative and dismissive.
A year later Dave Meltzer is openly discussing (subscription required) Lesnar's lack of interest in continuing his UFC career after losing his heavyweight title to Cain Velasquez in October.
MMA.tv summarized Meltzer's commentary:
According to Dave Meltzer of Yahoo! Sports/Wrestling Observer, Brock is currently looking for an "exit strategy" from the UFC.
Meltzer said on his radio show that the fight with Velasquez has changed Brock's attitude on fighting and he is at the stage in his life where he doesn't want to get injured. He's very well off financially and the business man in him apparently knows that it may be time to move on.
Meltzer also mentioned that Brock hasn't trained a single day since the Velasquez fight nor he has returned any phone calls to Dana or Zuffa about upcoming matches.
Dave pointed out if Brock was motivated, he would be right back in the gym training and bringing in new coaches with the goal of beating Cain yet he isn't doing that. He's hunting and hasn't even thought about his next fight. Lesnar apparently wants to do WrestleMania "badly" and will earn an estimated 2 million dollars for 30 minutes of work.
Everything is pointing towards Brock having one more fight and ending his contract. His head doesn't seem to be in the fighting game and it looks like it was just yet another successful business move.
Zach Arnold enjoys some "I toldja so":
One of the stories that I've longed warned everyone about is the career of Brock Lesnar in the UFC. We know his history - he does something for a little while, makes some money or fame, and moves on before he gets completely exposed and runs out of sugar daddies willing to recruit him into something else. In many ways, he reminds me of having the spirit of Bruiser Brody (look him up on Google, non-wrestling fans) leaving one place after another before his welcome is warn out. Lesnar was in WWE for a few years, then he went to try out for the Minnesota Vikings, then he went to New Japan, and eventually ended up in UFC.
...
What's intriguing about UFC being relucant to allow Brock to appear at Wrestlemania is that not only is UFC destroying WWE in PPV buys but they have also taken away a lot of disgruntled WWE/wrestling fans who are sick of the McMahon/Kevin Dunn cookie-cutter production. In one respect, Dana's objections make complete and total business sense. On the other hand, why should he be worried about Lesnar appearing at Wrestlemania if the public at-large knows that UFC is real and WWE is not so much? Despite the amazing growth of UFC, I do think the situation with Lesnar indicates how nervous people in MMA still are to the fact that the public at-large, or at least the media, is willing to lump the two into the same business category.Brock Lesnar is who we thought he was - and we've been saying it for many, many years on Fight Opinion.
The UFC had a record year in 2010. Brock Lesnar played no small part in that success, headlining as he did two of their biggest pay-per-view events of the year.
The UFC will continue to be massively successful without Brock Lesnar, but there is no one on the horizon to match his appeal to fans.
Keep in mind that this could be a negotiating ploy to get more from Dana White. It's been widely speculated that Lesnar would like to headline WrestleMania in 2011 and Dana won't let him. White has openly discussed his desire to book Lesnar against Frank Mir as a coach on The Ultimate Fighter. Rumors of a Brendan Schaub vs Frank Mir match in spring 2011 seemed to have scotched that possibility, but yesterday's announcement that Schaub would be facing Stefan Struve Mirko Filipovic aka Cro Cop, re-opens Mir-Lesnar 3 as a possible capper to an epic season of TUF.
My bet (hope) is that Meltzer's source is someone in the Lesnar camp (ie Paul Heyman) who is trying to talk up Lesnar's disinterest in returning to the UFC in order to raise the asking price.
UPDATE: Dave Meltzer commented today on Wrestling Observer radio (subscription required) about all the speculation he has triggered:
"Brock Lesnar. Oh my God! I didn't say he was never going to fight again. I thought I made it pretty clear that I expected him to fight once next year or maybe even twice. It's amazing how things get blown out of proportion."
This in conjunction with the Mir-Schaub fight being off makes me even more convinced that there is some serious horse-trading going on between Lesnar and the UFC.
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Well
he is rich. He does not need to get beat up
"Turn yourself not away from three best things: Good Thought, Good Word, and Good Deed" - Zoroaster
catch me if you can @ MMA Answers
by SheepleBuster on Dec 28, 2010 11:01 AM EST reply actions 3 recs
Originally I thought Lesner came to MMA because it was real fighting and that’s what he wanted to do. It was my understanding that he turned down the millions for credibility on whompin dat ass. If it’s about the money then I have a different outlook on this guy…..actually I wouldn’t cause he’s now confusing me.
They made a video game about Yakuzas. It’s called Yakuza. And it’s about Yakuza
what I am saying is,
he got into the game way too late. He sees his gap with Cain and the new breed to be huge. he will never be able to fix his stand up and become a Carwin like knockout puncher. he can still beat a lot of heavyweights but not the ones with good wrestling. I don’t know. He has got millions. He has got a nice family. He loves to be his own boss and run his life without any pressures. does he want to get beat up like he did in his last two fights again?
"Turn yourself not away from three best things: Good Thought, Good Word, and Good Deed" - Zoroaster
catch me if you can @ MMA Answers
by SheepleBuster on Dec 28, 2010 11:09 AM EST up reply actions
I see what you're saying
He was just hyped up to be the next Randy Couture (and they was reachin in my eyes). And despite all the free passes Couture has been getting, he can still lay the beat. Maybe not as much as he used to cause he hasn’t taken out a 10p HW in awhile but either way…
Point is I thought he did it for the love. Thats why I think a lotta these guys do it. Except Chris Lytle who likes gettin that scrilla for FOTN
They made a video game about Yakuzas. It’s called Yakuza. And it’s about Yakuza
Well. He definitely did not do it for love
I don’t know Lesnar. But from all I have heard, this was a “business” for him. Just like football and WWE, and everything else. He might act stupid sometimes, but you can’t argue he is a decent businessman.
"Turn yourself not away from three best things: Good Thought, Good Word, and Good Deed" - Zoroaster
catch me if you can @ MMA Answers
by SheepleBuster on Dec 28, 2010 11:20 AM EST up reply actions
A great business man really. Goes somewhere with a huge buzz, leaves and keeps them wanting more. That’s the key, when people want you, you hold all the chips.
by disinferno06 on Dec 28, 2010 1:47 PM EST up reply actions
Well…leaving now isn’t really leaving everyone wanting more. That’s the problem with real sports and one of the failures of all the wrestling comparisons. You don’t get to choose how you leave things in a real sport. There’s no creative control when Cain Velasquez is breaking your soul with punches.
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by Brent Brookhouse on Dec 28, 2010 1:49 PM EST up reply actions 6 recs
By the way, here is what Melzer really said:
There’s two Brocks, either the Brock who wants it real bad or the Brock who is looking for an exit strategy, who’s the business man, who’s rich, happy and now doesn’t want to get hurt,… That’s the reality. If the guy really wanted to beat Cain Velasquez, he’d be going to Holland or importing Holland to Minnesota
He’s got some flaws, you don’t improve those flaws in six weeks or eight weeks, and you certainly don’t improve them by not training. If you had the motivated Brock, he’d be doing different stuff than he’s doing right now. And also he’d be calling Dana White going ‘get me a fight.’ Instead he’s not returning any phone calls. That tells you something too.
He’s got a big hole in his game right now. If he gets motivated in June, yeah he might beat Roy Nelson, but if he’s serious about fighting
he’s got to beat Cain Velasquez, and he ain’t going to do that with eight weeks of training no matter how hard the training is…
If he was like St. Pierre, he might be able to coast on eight weeks of training and just because he’s so much better than everybody else be able to beat people. And he may be able to do that with Roy Nelson, and he may be able to do that with Mir, but the goal, in theory, would be to beat Velasquez and he ain’t going to do that with Velasquez
Read the rest here: http://www.mmatorch.com/artman2/publish/penickstake/article_7957.shtml
"Turn yourself not away from three best things: Good Thought, Good Word, and Good Deed" - Zoroaster
catch me if you can @ MMA Answers
by SheepleBuster on Dec 28, 2010 3:17 PM EST up reply actions
Um………yes you do get to choose. If you so choose you can retire in the middle of an NBA, NFL, MLB season. It’s up to you, they can’t make you play. It’s only when you try to come back for someone else that you’d have an issue. Everyone wanting more was more of an allusion to the ufc wanting him back because he’s a guaranteed 1million ppv buys. WWE wants him back because after the things he’s done in the UFC he has an even bigger following and they want to capitalize on it.
by disinferno06 on Dec 29, 2010 1:48 AM EST up reply actions
Brock knows what we is worth.
With the UFC, the difference is that his image could take a dive with the more fights he loses. In turn, that affects his worth as a celebrity and athlete. At least with pro wrestling, Brock’s in control of who he “wins” against and “loses” to, and how it makes him look to the fans.
MMA Fan Since Forrest Griffin vs. Stephan Bonnar
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by McKinley B. Noble on Dec 28, 2010 2:00 PM EST up reply actions
Let's see.
How many people in the heavyweight division can stuff Brock’s takedown. Let’s name them.
"Turn yourself not away from three best things: Good Thought, Good Word, and Good Deed" - Zoroaster
catch me if you can @ MMA Answers
by SheepleBuster on Dec 28, 2010 3:13 PM EST up reply actions
Its a short list...
Cain and Carwin, and even then its far from 100% success, more like 50% IMO…
"Sometimes I wonder if the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on, or by imbeciles who really mean it."
-Mark Twain
"If I tell you I'm good, you would probably think I'm boasting. If I tell you I'm no good, you know I'm lying..."
-Bruce Lee
"People griping about this matchup need to stop using fight finder as their primary source of MMA information and watch some fights already."
-smoogy2
by The American Ronin on Dec 28, 2010 3:41 PM EST up reply actions
Daniel Cormier
Walter Cronkite wasn’t known as Kid Cronk for a fucking reason.
"Unfortunately, it won’t shut anyone up, but if (the Falcons) get a Lombardi, I’m going to spend all of 2011 not giving a rat’s ass what anyone says." – Dave Choate
by Anthony Pace on Dec 28, 2010 3:49 PM EST up reply actions
True that
was only thinking of the UFC. Conrad probably as well…
"Sometimes I wonder if the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on, or by imbeciles who really mean it."
-Mark Twain
"If I tell you I'm good, you would probably think I'm boasting. If I tell you I'm no good, you know I'm lying..."
-Bruce Lee
"People griping about this matchup need to stop using fight finder as their primary source of MMA information and watch some fights already."
-smoogy2
by The American Ronin on Dec 28, 2010 3:50 PM EST up reply actions
For UFC, you're right though
Walter Cronkite wasn’t known as Kid Cronk for a fucking reason.
"Unfortunately, it won’t shut anyone up, but if (the Falcons) get a Lombardi, I’m going to spend all of 2011 not giving a rat’s ass what anyone says." – Dave Choate
by Anthony Pace on Dec 28, 2010 3:53 PM EST up reply actions
SO now BJJ doesn't count?
That’s wat bothers me most about the Lesnar nut-hugging, people just assume that if he gets the TD he’ll win.
Don’t think even for a minute That Werdum, Fedor or even JDS won’t get him in a triangle or armbar…keeep it real fellas and put the bias to the side for a minute.
Perhaps
But it’s not like mir isn’t an accomplished BJJ practicioner. Brock knew exactly how to keep himself chest to chest and now all Frank to move his hips. It’s not a given he would dominate nor is it a given he would get caught. If anything, he has the advantage because he is on top, and he is HUGE compared to those guys. It would go just like it did against Mir the second time a majority of those fight if Brock were able to get the take down and hold it.
The question was
How many people in the heavyweight division can stuff Brock’s takedown. Let’s name them.
"Sometimes I wonder if the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on, or by imbeciles who really mean it."
-Mark Twain
"If I tell you I'm good, you would probably think I'm boasting. If I tell you I'm no good, you know I'm lying..."
-Bruce Lee
"People griping about this matchup need to stop using fight finder as their primary source of MMA information and watch some fights already."
-smoogy2
by The American Ronin on Dec 29, 2010 5:09 AM EST up reply actions
right. It amuses me that people say Brock is done
even though he can probably take down most of heayweights today and decision them in a 3 rounder. Am I saying he is the best in the world? No! but he has got a big advantage in one area against most heavyweights. He might not beat Cain but he is still tough to deal with for most heavyweights.
"Turn yourself not away from three best things: Good Thought, Good Word, and Good Deed" - Zoroaster
catch me if you can @ MMA Answers
by SheepleBuster on Dec 28, 2010 4:09 PM EST up reply actions
I agree
and sadly it seems to be the nature of MMA fans for the most part – you are either GOAT candidate or a POS, depending on how your last fight went…
"Sometimes I wonder if the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on, or by imbeciles who really mean it."
-Mark Twain
"If I tell you I'm good, you would probably think I'm boasting. If I tell you I'm no good, you know I'm lying..."
-Bruce Lee
"People griping about this matchup need to stop using fight finder as their primary source of MMA information and watch some fights already."
-smoogy2
by The American Ronin on Dec 28, 2010 4:10 PM EST up reply actions
Lesnar fought two worst match ups for him
I even give him an edge over a guy like Overeem. Slight edge if he plays it safe and just takes the guy down without getting hit. yes. Lesnar could lose his next fight to Nelson or Mir but at least he goes in knowing that he can always try a take down or two. Neslon may be a bit tough though.
People forget. He did take Cain down twice before gassing and getting punched out.
"Turn yourself not away from three best things: Good Thought, Good Word, and Good Deed" - Zoroaster
catch me if you can @ MMA Answers
by SheepleBuster on Dec 28, 2010 4:17 PM EST up reply actions
I give Overeem the edge there
We’ve all seen Brock’s reaction to getting punched. Overeem however can KO Brock, or submit him (also from his back), so I don’t really see how you could give Brock an edge in that matchup to be honest.
by Chris P. Bacon on Dec 28, 2010 4:36 PM EST up reply actions
well. I can't say if he can or can't keep Overeem down.
I think Brock knows about submissions not to get subbed easily against Overeem. I agree with you. If Overeem touches him, it’s over. But what if Overeem finds himself on the floor right in the first 10 seconds of the fight?
I am NOT saying Brock is a better fighter than Overeem. Just the match up and the wrestling advantage.
"Turn yourself not away from three best things: Good Thought, Good Word, and Good Deed" - Zoroaster
catch me if you can @ MMA Answers
by SheepleBuster on Dec 28, 2010 4:44 PM EST up reply actions
I'd be hoping for Overeem by Guillotine
But I know it wouldn’t be too likely. KO, however, would not be.
Right, Cain was able to get up, but Cain made an NCAA career of being a better technician than the bigger, stronger guys (Conrad excepted).
I don’t think he takes Overeem or a properly conditioned Carwin, but he is legit for sure.
"Sometimes I wonder if the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on, or by imbeciles who really mean it."
-Mark Twain
"If I tell you I'm good, you would probably think I'm boasting. If I tell you I'm no good, you know I'm lying..."
-Bruce Lee
"People griping about this matchup need to stop using fight finder as their primary source of MMA information and watch some fights already."
-smoogy2
by The American Ronin on Dec 28, 2010 4:38 PM EST up reply actions
He needs to learn to use his striking to get takedowns because he was just lunging and still got Cain down. If he is able to be unpredictable and take someone down it may be unbeatable.
You cant stop him, you can only hope to contain him. -- Random Person
Another one bits the dust. -- Myself
by Tokyo Sandblaster on Dec 28, 2010 6:47 PM EST up reply actions
Right. Who knows about Juniors takedown defense. If he manages to beat Cain, there are many possible ways of for Brock to navigate towards another winnable title shot without fighting Cain on the way there.
"I want to tell me what you see, let's go ahead and see by the fight what you saw, in the ring"
Agreed
I can’t see an avenue for Brock to beat Cain, but JDS is a very winnable fight for Brock…
"Sometimes I wonder if the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on, or by imbeciles who really mean it."
-Mark Twain
"If I tell you I'm good, you would probably think I'm boasting. If I tell you I'm no good, you know I'm lying..."
-Bruce Lee
"People griping about this matchup need to stop using fight finder as their primary source of MMA information and watch some fights already."
-smoogy2
by The American Ronin on Dec 28, 2010 9:33 PM EST up reply actions
Again...so is Brock now this unsubmittable monster at HW now?
Seriously eveybody keep the bias to minimum .
I haven't seen anyone say he can't be submitted
The point is that while he really has no way to beat Cain aside from the proverbial “puncher’s chance”, JDS is a winnable fight, although certainly not a gimme…
"Sometimes I wonder if the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on, or by imbeciles who really mean it."
-Mark Twain
"If I tell you I'm good, you would probably think I'm boasting. If I tell you I'm no good, you know I'm lying..."
-Bruce Lee
"People griping about this matchup need to stop using fight finder as their primary source of MMA information and watch some fights already."
-smoogy2
by The American Ronin on Dec 29, 2010 5:12 AM EST up reply actions
i'm really pissed about this
i honestly thought brock would be back ready to fucking go and smash some heads
hes the guy who propelled me from liking mma to being a hardcore obsessed fan of it
im very very disapointed here and it really shows the heart that brock has, hes gonna go down as being a overwhelming waste of talent if this is true and honestly thats sad when he coulda been considered one of the best ever
"I have smoked weed with alot of UFC champions" - Joe Rogan
Well here is the thing
After he came back from Canada, he allegedly said this at an event:
“I will be getting my title back in 2011”
It was at Chris Tush’s event. It was reported on multiple sites. We don’t know if he meant WWE or UFC title though :)
"Turn yourself not away from three best things: Good Thought, Good Word, and Good Deed" - Zoroaster
catch me if you can @ MMA Answers
by SheepleBuster on Dec 28, 2010 11:06 AM EST up reply actions
i really hope he does come back
say what u will about the guy, but hes definately exciting and when brock lesnar enters the cage u know some shits about to go down
"I have smoked weed with alot of UFC champions" - Joe Rogan
you should.
Transfer that love to Cain. A man who will never stop smashing heads.
"Brock Lesnar's NCAA record 8 years removed is absolutely relevant. Alistair Overeem winning the K-1 World Grand Prix in 2010? A total Non sequitur that isn't worth debate."
already have
"I have smoked weed with alot of UFC champions" - Joe Rogan
A little disappointing.
I’d’ve thought he had it in him to pick himself up, wipe the blood away and fight on.
by StephenDedalus on Dec 28, 2010 11:06 AM EST reply actions
Just when I thought we'd never get to see Brock vs. Fedor
Brock holds all the chips now and he can take his happy ass all the way to Strikeforce where his non-exclusive contract will permit him to (act) in Wrestlemania whenever he chooses. This IS the future of the sport where soon we’ll see the sports biggest stars dictating the terms of their deals, essentially putting on fights that line their pockets the most…where organizations bid on a fighter’s talents on a per fight basis.
Brock has one fight left on his contract
And UFC have the lawyers to make sure he honors it before going anywhere after a lengthy renegotiation period.
So, Brock = Fedor
and this is how he forces a renegotiation. Smart dude.
"I cover Baltimore, not the state of Maryland. And would rather have my eyes ripped out with a fork than study your state." - Jen Royle
Brock = Couture = Fedor
Guys with star power, leverage who were basically able to call their own shot.
Hey, that’s cool.
Excuse my emotional, reactionary, fanatic output but Pettis will be the next UFC lightweight champion. Period.
- - - - -
VEe is ANIMated!
by VeeisAnimated on Dec 28, 2010 11:23 AM EST up reply actions
You forgot Brett Farve
They made a video game about Yakuzas. It’s called Yakuza. And it’s about Yakuza
We’re all trying to.
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I less-rarely write
"I ain't having it" - Buster Posey, hosing folks down
by woomikee on Dec 28, 2010 12:29 PM EST up reply actions 9 recs
Welcome to the future of the sport...
if anyone thinks that as the sport gets bigger and there is more money to be made guys are going to ride out their contracts…they’re insane.
We’re going to see more and more holdouts and negotiating tactics as it goes on.
Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
MMA Editor - SBNation.com
by Brent Brookhouse on Dec 28, 2010 1:17 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I think contracts will evolve in the future too
adding things like guarantees and various fighter/organization options for certain fighters, as well as shorter contract durations.
All for the top fighters only of course…
"Sometimes I wonder if the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on, or by imbeciles who really mean it."
-Mark Twain
"If I tell you I'm good, you would probably think I'm boasting. If I tell you I'm no good, you know I'm lying..."
-Bruce Lee
"People griping about this matchup need to stop using fight finder as their primary source of MMA information and watch some fights already."
-smoogy2
by The American Ronin on Dec 28, 2010 1:53 PM EST up reply actions
You’ll also probably see protection against being held out of fights at the end of your contract (getting Arlovski’d) and you’ll see many more fighters being told by much better agents to ALWAYS become free agents to start bidding wars and drive up your worth.
Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
MMA Editor - SBNation.com
by Brent Brookhouse on Dec 28, 2010 1:56 PM EST up reply actions
i'm still shocked that major players in sports agency have not gotten involved in this sport
Dana and Zuffa will have a slight awakening once the big agents like Boras, Tellem, and Condon get on board.
by F'n Clownshoes on Dec 28, 2010 2:01 PM EST up reply actions
Yep. People who will laugh their asses off at the “strong arm” shit that Zuffa pulls because they’ve dealt with bigger bulls than this before.
Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
MMA Editor - SBNation.com
by Brent Brookhouse on Dec 28, 2010 2:03 PM EST up reply actions
Mark Steinberg would have a field day w/ Zuffa
Being the top golf agent puts you in a place of particular power. Guys like him know exactly how to pit the individual over the company.
by F'n Clownshoes on Dec 28, 2010 2:06 PM EST up reply actions
I don't think it's going where you think it's going.
Those agents will not easily transition into MMA because Zuffa will refuse to sign their fighters and they are big enough right now to put the fear of banishment into that first fighter who decides to take up with one of those agents who is constantly “laughing his/her ass off” at the skinny calf that is Zuffa. I guess there could be a promotion for a bunch of guys with hardball agents. Sounds like a good scene.
by Charlie Custer on Dec 28, 2010 3:03 PM EST up reply actions
But these agents won’t come in looking for prospects, they’ll be signing stars and champions right off the bat, guys Zuffa can’t just blackball. Scott Boras could pull in a dream team of GSP, Jose Aldo, Cain Velasquez, and Shogun with relative ease, I presume. I don’t think Zuffa could blackball those guys.
Walter Cronkite wasn’t known as Kid Cronk for a fucking reason.
"Unfortunately, it won’t shut anyone up, but if (the Falcons) get a Lombardi, I’m going to spend all of 2011 not giving a rat’s ass what anyone says." – Dave Choate
by Anthony Pace on Dec 28, 2010 4:00 PM EST up reply actions
You're probably right.
They would go after those guys, but I’m not sure they could put that team together with any kind of ease, all at once. There would have to be another viable promotion that could pay these guys anywhere near the kind of money that Zuffa can, and there is not, and likely will never be. Also, one of White’s talents is engendering a certain loyalty among not only his homegrown fighters that have risen to stardom, but foreign fighters as well who have found the motivation, on the sport’s biggest stage, to train and fight to their potential again. I think that Dana and Zuffa are pretty sharp and they see these issues on the horizon and kind of maneuver to lessen their blow. To your point, one thing that they’ve done (and haven’t always, it seems) is to recognize their market movers and make them very, very comfortable financially and challenged professionally.
by Charlie Custer on Dec 28, 2010 7:24 PM EST up reply actions
That’s the difficulty, I suppose. Who can whisper more honey in the fighters’ ears: Dana White or the Super Agents?
Walter Cronkite wasn’t known as Kid Cronk for a fucking reason.
"Unfortunately, it won’t shut anyone up, but if (the Falcons) get a Lombardi, I’m going to spend all of 2011 not giving a rat’s ass what anyone says." – Dave Choate
by Anthony Pace on Dec 28, 2010 7:47 PM EST up reply actions
It only takes one other offer
to put Zuffa in a position to make them decide to let people walk away. Now, they did it with Dan Henderson, and they’re no worse off. But if half a dozen guys go to SF? Different story.
"I cover Baltimore, not the state of Maryland. And would rather have my eyes ripped out with a fork than study your state." - Jen Royle
Because there isn't money in it
Those guys take 5%, and even if you were talking a 10M contract, that’s still only 500k for them gross. How many 10M contracts are there in MMA? Boras etc make money because they have 50 guys making 5M a year on average.
As of a couple years ago Boras’ guys made something like 250-275M a year, which is 12-14M a year in revenue for Boras….minus the costs of running a 60 man business. They don’t have much interest in jumping into a sport where the UFC’s total revenue is estimated at ~350M.
The MMA super agent will come from a young MMA agent just having the balls/smarts.
Not afraid to nitpick
Guarantees going both ways, I’d wager. At some point fighters will start asking for time limits in their contracts so they don’t get hung out to dry with one fight left on the contract – still under contract but not getting a chance to fight until they sign a contract the promoter dictates for them. On the other hand, especially for the top fighters, we could start seeing clauses that force them to take fights at a certain frequency (say, twice a year with maximum nine months between fights) to prevent stars from locking up a division. A lot of this will come as a result of higher caliber of agents getting involved in MMA – and will, of course, initially involve only the top dogs, but hopefully it will trickle down to the guys fighting in the prelims.
Then again, knowing the kind of business Zuffa has been known to do in the recent past, they might cave in on the stars – only to turn around and screw the guys on the bottom of the barrel even harder.
I don't know much - but I know that I don't.
by Monday Morning Martial Artist on Dec 28, 2010 2:03 PM EST up reply actions
Yep. All very true.
Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
MMA Editor - SBNation.com
by Brent Brookhouse on Dec 28, 2010 2:04 PM EST up reply actions
i sure hope so.
a fighters union is a long way off, but individuals holding out and forcing Orgs to restructure contracts will only help other less named fighters in the long run.
by F'n Clownshoes on Dec 28, 2010 1:56 PM EST up reply actions
The value of a guy like Jon Jones is not static over a four fight contract…etc. So once “super-agents” get in the game we’ll see guys hold out once their value does not match with what they’re being paid.
Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
MMA Editor - SBNation.com
by Brent Brookhouse on Dec 28, 2010 2:00 PM EST up reply actions
Excuse me, but aren't the "super-agents"
sort of already on the scene. And are they not M-1 Global? There’s something in the tone of your comments that leads one to believe that you relish the thought of these super-agent vs UFC wars materializing. I think it would sad for the the fighters and the fans, to tell you the truth. It would make it awfully easy for the casual fan to decide to abandon the sport.
by Charlie Custer on Dec 28, 2010 3:11 PM EST up reply actions
I’m not saying it’s a good thing for the fans. But it’s how the business of sport works. I’m not dying for guys to hold out at all. I’m just saying that guys aren’t going to be as willing to sit on their current contracts in the future.
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by Brent Brookhouse on Dec 28, 2010 4:17 PM EST up reply actions
OH...
and yes. M-1 is more like what I think we’ll see in the future (think more like 5-10 years down the road) with guys holding out as soon as they think there is a value change.
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by Brent Brookhouse on Dec 28, 2010 4:18 PM EST up reply actions
It's possible --
And I’m sure your vision into the future of MMA has a much higher resolution than my own, but if things stand in five, ten years as they do today (one mega-promotion with an increasingly international footprint and three or four domestic upstarts splitting 15% of the top MMA talent) then I just don’t see the conditions for a lot of TO’s to exist within the UFC. There’s no doubt that they are dealing with these kinds of issues already and whatever their approach is, it’s working. I just don’t see the MMA scene changing that much in five years to make Zuffa’s leverage with fighters significantly weaker than what it is today. Also, there’s always another Cain to come along and replace a Fedor whose agents believe he and they should make what Dana makes. While they’re collecting dust, the ball will keep rolling in this infant sport. The young guys are fiercely hungry and at 22-26 are not paid well enough to buy their own hype.
by Charlie Custer on Dec 28, 2010 7:40 PM EST up reply actions
The problem is that fighters and management know that the percentage of the profit pie that is going to fighters is actually getting smaller. The revenue is increasing every year at a much faster rate than fighter pay. That is going to eventually become an issue.
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by Brent Brookhouse on Dec 28, 2010 9:24 PM EST up reply actions
Is it possible that he traded...
A coaching gig on TUF, which Dana was desperate for him to do and which he didn’t want to even consider, for the Wrestlemania appearance (opposite situation)?
Here's what I don't get about the TUF thing...
..what could Brock Lesnar possibly teach anyone about MMA?
“Be bigger than everyone else”?
“When you get punched in the face, wheel around backwards on the floor like you’re a B-Boy”?
The only reason they’d want him to coach TUF would be for six weeks of promo for a rubber match against Mir that, really, hardly anyone is interested in.
Kind of like GSP vs Koscheck II.
Koscheck has frosted tips.
by Ozzz on Dec 28, 2010 11:44 AM EST up reply actions 2 recs
he'd be just as good as Rampage Jackson
or hell Ken Shamrock.
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by Nate Wilcox on Dec 28, 2010 11:47 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Yeah except that those 2 seasons were the 2 biggest in TUF history
So there’s that
I'm Dutch-Irish. My Father was from Wales.
by hobbie on Dec 28, 2010 12:43 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Put a flaming car wreck in the cage..
..and you’ll get ratings.
But isn’t there supposed to be a competitive element to it all, rather than just “let’s drop the biggest assholes we can find in a house together and have them led by two even bigger assholes”?
Koscheck has frosted tips.
Let's put it this way
I don’t think that smoking/drinking guy and Bruce Leeroy were in the TUF house for their fighting skills..
by Chris P. Bacon on Dec 28, 2010 4:56 PM EST up reply actions
Well Ken at least had a history of “teaching” people. He is a legit leg lock guy and he can teach that. Brock was never the most technical wrestler he relied a lot on his size, so he can’t teach that. His striking sucks donkey ass so that’s out the window. His GnP, sure but I’m not sure it would take him 6 weeks to teach that. He would just bring in a slew of trainers and take part in the lessons they give, much like GSP did. And there’s nothing wrong with that
by disinferno06 on Dec 28, 2010 1:53 PM EST up reply actions
eh
Jackson and Shamrock are assholes, not curmudgeons.
"Brock Lesnar's NCAA record 8 years removed is absolutely relevant. Alistair Overeem winning the K-1 World Grand Prix in 2010? A total Non sequitur that isn't worth debate."
- Would you really expect Brock Lesnar to teach MMA prospects anything with a 5 – 2 record?
- I don’t think anyone expected much of Rampage . . . see Kid Nate’s reply
- The TV programs feature personality, when it comes to technique, lessons, etc. that’s an after thought.
Excuse my emotional, reactionary, fanatic output but Pettis will be the next UFC lightweight champion. Period.
- - - - -
VEe is ANIMated!
by VeeisAnimated on Dec 28, 2010 11:49 AM EST up reply actions
Then forget calling them 'coaches' and instead call them guest stars.
Or put a whole load of them in and call it Battle of the UFC Stars, and ditch the prospects altogether.
Koscheck has frosted tips.
I watched most of the
Rashad-Rampage season, and one GSP-Kos episode, and that is all I have ever seen of TUF, but isn’t most of the teaching done by the trainers and coaches the lead guys bring in?
"Sometimes I wonder if the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on, or by imbeciles who really mean it."
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by The American Ronin on Dec 28, 2010 12:06 PM EST up reply actions
GSP was in there hustling.
He also brought in the best coaches around.
But he’s the exception. Most of the time you might as well just have Leben and Junie Browning as coaches.
Koscheck has frosted tips.
I thouight GSP was the best coach I’ve ever seen on TUF. All the mental visualization work, the sparring, the positive reinforcement, he was amazing and the results showed it.
Tito in season 3 was also very good...
…though perhaps Ken looking that bad made him look better by comparison.
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by Scott C. Broussard on Dec 28, 2010 12:52 PM EST up reply actions
Tito’s fighter persona is a colossal douche, but as a coach he was very good. On his latest season ( vs. Chuck) he seemed to overtrain his guys (which I think he does to himself). But other seasons he seemed to be a caring coach that was really trying to help his guys
by disinferno06 on Dec 28, 2010 1:59 PM EST up reply actions
Well, as I’ve said over and over. The vast majority of “coaching” on that show is done by the camp. The “coaches” aren’t there every minute of every practice leading the training.
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by Brent Brookhouse on Dec 28, 2010 1:19 PM EST up reply actions
Wasn't Meltzer the guy who said Brock DID NOT want to work with Vince again?
I sometimes question some of the stories he reports.
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people's motivations change
Meltzer can only report on what he’s told and/or observes. If people change their mind — which they do — it’s going to make old reports look out of whack. Doesn’t mean they were wrong at the time.
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by Nate Wilcox on Dec 28, 2010 11:26 AM EST up reply actions
but he told Steve Cofield
that Brock hated Vince and he was so done with wrestling. I see what you are saying though. I am just saying, Brock’s motivation can change again with $$$. No?
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by SheepleBuster on Dec 28, 2010 11:35 AM EST up reply actions
He hated Vince and loved Dana. Until Dana became the guy in charge of the thing where Brock got the shit kicked out of him. Now Vince has a big ol’ check and seems like a much better guy.
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by Brent Brookhouse on Dec 28, 2010 1:20 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I don't think Lesnar hates Dana
At least not until the lawyers are set loose.
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by SheepleBuster on Dec 28, 2010 1:24 PM EST up reply actions
I never said he hates Dana. But Dana isn’t just a sugar daddy anymore. The money ain’t free.
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by Brent Brookhouse on Dec 28, 2010 1:26 PM EST up reply actions
It was before?
Luke: What was our best moment?
Nate: When I banned Subo?
Luke: That was a good one.
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Still Subo at Fightlinker.com
by Derek Suboticki on Dec 28, 2010 1:50 PM EST up reply actions
Fighting Cain Velasquez is a lot different from fighting Randy Couture and Heath Herring (both guys who I have a tremendous amount of respect, mind you)
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by Brent Brookhouse on Dec 28, 2010 1:56 PM EST up reply actions
Shane Carwin? Frank Mir?
Luke: What was our best moment?
Nate: When I banned Subo?
Luke: That was a good one.
When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift
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Still Subo at Fightlinker.com
by Derek Suboticki on Dec 28, 2010 1:58 PM EST up reply actions
Mir is…not that tough of a fight for a big guy. He’s proven over and over that he gets manhandled. And yeah, I think fighting Carwin was quite different also given that Brock handled getting punched pretty poorly there too but was able to go back to being a bully in round 2 so he survived.
The verdict is in on Lesnar in MMA. Talented, not great and handles getting punched about as well as a 3 year old.
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by Brent Brookhouse on Dec 28, 2010 2:02 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Seven fights into his career, six fights against elite competition, no amateur MMA career and the verdict is in. Man. I’d get really bored really quickly if I decided each fighter’s fate that quickly.
Luke: What was our best moment?
Nate: When I banned Subo?
Luke: That was a good one.
When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift
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Still Subo at Fightlinker.com
by Derek Suboticki on Dec 28, 2010 2:06 PM EST up reply actions 5 recs
He’s not exactly “young” and he’s not in camp working to fix the holes in his game. As I said, he’s talented…but that’s pretty much it.
It’s nice that you feel differently. But it just wouldn’t be Subo if you didn’t get offended that someone doesn’t like a UFC star’s future.
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by Brent Brookhouse on Dec 28, 2010 2:17 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I’m incredibly offended. Put off, even.
Luke: What was our best moment?
Nate: When I banned Subo?
Luke: That was a good one.
When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift
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Still Subo at Fightlinker.com
by Derek Suboticki on Dec 28, 2010 2:27 PM EST up reply actions
OH NO!
Let’s make up. Brock Lesnar = the future of America!
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by Brent Brookhouse on Dec 28, 2010 2:35 PM EST up reply actions
Let's face it Brent
Brock Lesnar is our only hope to stop socialism in Canada and around the globe once and for all. With his help, we will repeal the health care law, go to Mars, and oh wait. Brock may not win his next fight if he jobs to Undertaker.
I am with Subo though. People underestimate and bash brock. It’s cool but he has fought legit competition. He could have dodged Velasquez or Carwin. So he lost. Who cares.
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by SheepleBuster on Dec 28, 2010 3:12 PM EST up reply actions
Interesting thought here
I assume there’s been a lot of debate about whether or not Taker’s final match would be at WM, with the streak on the line. If his final match is at next year’s WM and it’s a one-off deal with Lesnar, he could keep “The Streak” alive and break the mold of retiring with a loss.
Walter Cronkite wasn’t known as Kid Cronk for a fucking reason.
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by Anthony Pace on Dec 28, 2010 4:08 PM EST up reply actions
Woah.
Six fights against elites? Slow your roll son.
Who is that?
Randy couture is not an elite heavy weight. Maybe an elite light heavy weight.
Heath Herring wasn’t elite in Pride in his heyday 10 years ago.
Frank Mir I’ll give you but he lost to him.
I’d say 4 fights against elite heavies, and he lost half of them. 3/4 if you count Carwin gassing himself.
"Brock Lesnar's NCAA record 8 years removed is absolutely relevant. Alistair Overeem winning the K-1 World Grand Prix in 2010? A total Non sequitur that isn't worth debate."
by VelociAldo on Dec 28, 2010 2:52 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Herring was top ten during his best days in PRIDE. I’m willing to consider top 10 in a division as elite in that moment. Herring was absolutely “elite” at that point.
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by Brent Brookhouse on Dec 28, 2010 2:53 PM EST up reply actions
elite gatekeeper?
Even still, he isn’t now, or then.
"Brock Lesnar's NCAA record 8 years removed is absolutely relevant. Alistair Overeem winning the K-1 World Grand Prix in 2010? A total Non sequitur that isn't worth debate."
by VelociAldo on Dec 28, 2010 3:06 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
it's funny how you guys discount everybody brock has fought
but Hong Man Choi or Zulu who fought your idol Fedor don’t get that criticism from you. Funny….
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by SheepleBuster on Dec 28, 2010 3:08 PM EST up reply actions
Nobody in the world would say HMC or Zulu were better than Herring
That is a ridiculous strawman. Hilariously ill conceived.
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Head Kick Legend
nobody mentioned
fedor.
but you.
we’re talking about brock.
"Brock Lesnar's NCAA record 8 years removed is absolutely relevant. Alistair Overeem winning the K-1 World Grand Prix in 2010? A total Non sequitur that isn't worth debate."
by VelociAldo on Dec 28, 2010 3:42 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Someone did above
They were saying how Brock can’t fight and all that. Listen. Brock is not the #1 heavyweight in the world. Does not mean he is a bum ;)
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by SheepleBuster on Dec 28, 2010 4:11 PM EST up reply actions
Mir was not perceived as a threat.
In fact, Brock losing to Mir only raised his own stock due to the beating that was ensuing before the tap.
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by McKinley B. Noble on Dec 28, 2010 2:04 PM EST up reply actions
Mir's a fine fighter and all...
..but he didn’t lay hands on Lesnar. His sole offensive output over two fights was a little fence-humping and a heel hook.
It wasn’t until Carwin that Lesnar felt an honest to goodness hulksmash to the noggin, and even though he won that fight, you could tell the experience rattled him.
Cain doubled down on it.
Lesnar does not like getting punched f’reals. He might come back or he might not, but the idea that he’ll get back to Cain and gun for his title back, I think, is bunk.
Brock want no mo’ o’ those hamhocks.
Koscheck has frosted tips.
Agreed.
Losing to Shane Carwin is one thing – the guy had only first round KOs and was the size of a tank.
Cain was an average sized HW with a smaller record.
’Guess which loss was more damaging.
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by McKinley B. Noble on Dec 28, 2010 2:06 PM EST up reply actions
Bret Hart talks to McMahon too. A lot of people
get screwed by Vince or hate him but talk to him. He got the moneys. :)
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by SheepleBuster on Dec 28, 2010 1:45 PM EST up reply actions
Vince has a big ol' check that requires one day of work this time
Don’t forget that part. Brock hated 300 days on the road. One day at WM for a seven-figure paycheck? I bet he’s interested.
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Schuab/Cro Cop?
When was this announced?
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Reasoning will never make a man correct an ill opinion, which by reasoning he never acquired. -Jonathan Swift
by Scott C. Broussard on Dec 28, 2010 11:14 AM EST reply actions
Earlier today on BE.
UFC Win Finish % (Top 15 with 6 UFC wins): Belfort 100, Penn 92, Florian 91, Velasquez 86, Anderson 83, JDS 83, Mir 83, Franklin 77, Kongo 75, Leben 73, Hughes 72, Sotiropoulos 71, Alves 70, Couture 69, Marquardt 67, Lytle 67, Maia 63, Koscheck 62, Bisping 60, Rivera 57, Rampage 50, Kampmann 50, J. Miller 50, GSP 47, Sanchez 45, Okami 40, Evans 40, Forrest 38, Machida 38, Fitch 31, Sherk 25, Edgar 25, Maynard 13
by MMAInFeRioRiTy on Dec 28, 2010 11:14 AM EST up reply actions
http://www.fightersonlymagazine.co.uk/news/viewarticle.php?id=5850
UFC Win Finish % (Top 15 with 6 UFC wins): Belfort 100, Penn 92, Florian 91, Velasquez 86, Anderson 83, JDS 83, Mir 83, Franklin 77, Kongo 75, Leben 73, Hughes 72, Sotiropoulos 71, Alves 70, Couture 69, Marquardt 67, Lytle 67, Maia 63, Koscheck 62, Bisping 60, Rivera 57, Rampage 50, Kampmann 50, J. Miller 50, GSP 47, Sanchez 45, Okami 40, Evans 40, Forrest 38, Machida 38, Fitch 31, Sherk 25, Edgar 25, Maynard 13
by MMAInFeRioRiTy on Dec 28, 2010 11:18 AM EST up reply actions
I feel like we all saw this coming
His “get back in the gym and train, because that’s what champions do” speech after his loss seemed really half-hearted. Brock has made so much money but with a near-death experience under his belt and losing by TKO for the first time in his career, especially after the way he “beat” Carwin, I didn’t expect him to continue his career. We should all celebrate the spotlight put on the UFC HW division for this amount of time and that Brock’s name helped the UFC reach the next level.
New England Patriots: We don't rebuild, we reload
also, I’ve been thinking about the UFC’s brand recognition power for having Brock be the #1 ranked HW in the world. Most of us believed it for a short span of time, but there is no way Brock should have ever been ranked that high
New England Patriots: We don't rebuild, we reload
by Austin Martin on Dec 28, 2010 11:17 AM EST up reply actions
Well, just being in the UFC and having the Heavyweight Title gave him the boost in the rankings. While he has beaten some very good competition, if one takes the Title away, I don’t think many would rank him as number one if it weren’t for having the Title.
I won't jump off the bandwagon just because you lost.
by chrisbboy82 on Dec 28, 2010 12:25 PM EST up reply actions
Brock Lesnar being the #1 HW was always a joke.
Even the rankings on places like Sherdog still don’t make sense with Brock listed at #2 after losing the title.
If anything, Brock is #4 or lower, under Werdum and Fedor, given his short record and weakness to decent striking.
Personally, I had him at the #3 spot even when he beat Carwin, and I’d still rank.
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by McKinley B. Noble on Dec 28, 2010 2:12 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
After Fedor lost, I think Lesnar was the legit #1, but I can’t in any way agree with him being #2 now, not even close…
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"If I tell you I'm good, you would probably think I'm boasting. If I tell you I'm no good, you know I'm lying..."
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"People griping about this matchup need to stop using fight finder as their primary source of MMA information and watch some fights already."
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by The American Ronin on Dec 28, 2010 2:19 PM EST up reply actions
After Fedor lost.
When that happened, I saw Werdum as the #1 HW, with Fedor still at #2. Right now, I’m ranking Cain above both of them, although I could easily see him below at #3.
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by McKinley B. Noble on Dec 28, 2010 2:28 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
What would have happened if Fedor lost to Rogers?
Maybe a flash KO. You would have thrown him up at #1?
Definitely not.
If Rogers had beaten Fedor, that wouldn’t have made enough of a case to rank him at #1, so I still would’ve ranked Brock at the top. At that point, the only person Rogers had beaten of note was Arlovski. Brock had at least beaten Heath Herring, Mir and Couture by then, all much better competition than Rogers’ other wins.
Werdum, on the other hand, had wins over Antonio Silva, Vera, Gonzaga, Big Nog, Overeem, and Little Emelianenko. Hence, better case for the #1 ranking.
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by McKinley B. Noble on Dec 28, 2010 3:10 PM EST up reply actions
Wait...what?!?
Werdum has never beaten Nog, and in addition to losing to Nog, he has lost to Arlovski, JDS and Sergei.
If you are going to claim a flash sub moves Werdum above Fedor, then how can you not claim a flash KO by the then higher ranker Rogers wouldn’t do the same?!?
Werdum was #9 when he beat Fedor, Rogers was #6 when he fought Fedor. If anything, Rogers would have a better claim to leap-frogging Fedor than Werdum does…
"Sometimes I wonder if the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on, or by imbeciles who really mean it."
-Mark Twain
"If I tell you I'm good, you would probably think I'm boasting. If I tell you I'm no good, you know I'm lying..."
-Bruce Lee
"People griping about this matchup need to stop using fight finder as their primary source of MMA information and watch some fights already."
-smoogy2
by The American Ronin on Dec 28, 2010 3:36 PM EST up reply actions
Excuse the error.
Good catch; Werdum hasn’t beaten Nog or Arlovski – typing too fast to accurately rattle off stats in my head.
Still, loses to those guys, JDS, and Sergei don’t knock him down too much on the rankings for me. At the very least, it’s still vastly better competition than either Brock or Rogers have faced. To put it simply, Werdum has more wins over top heavyweights and a more impressive list of fights, win or lose.
Rogers beating Fedor would’ve raised his stock, but not to the top. He hasn’t fought any top flight competition outside of Fedor, Overeem, or Arlovski. And sure, Brock didn’t fight as much as Brett did, but he at least won most the fights he had against the big name heavyweights he faced at the time.
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by McKinley B. Noble on Dec 28, 2010 4:08 PM EST up reply actions
Rogers beating Fedor would’ve raised his stock, but not to the top. He hasn’t fought any top flight competition outside of Fedor, Overeem, or Arlovski. And sure, Brock didn’t fight as much as Brett did, but he at least won most the fights he had against the big name heavyweights he faced at the time.
Rogers was undefeated when he faced Fedor, a win would have put him at #2 if not #1 IMO. Werdum should be at #4 – #5 IMO.
"Sometimes I wonder if the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on, or by imbeciles who really mean it."
-Mark Twain
"If I tell you I'm good, you would probably think I'm boasting. If I tell you I'm no good, you know I'm lying..."
-Bruce Lee
"People griping about this matchup need to stop using fight finder as their primary source of MMA information and watch some fights already."
-smoogy2
by The American Ronin on Dec 28, 2010 5:02 PM EST up reply actions
It's easy to be undefeated.
Especially when you fight nothing but cans in your first nine bouts.
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by McKinley B. Noble on Dec 28, 2010 6:12 PM EST up reply actions
That is true...
and the exact same thing can be said of Cain, JDS and especially Carwin.
Having said that, Rogers’ path diverges from the others since his opponent in his 10th bout was then #2 Andrei Arlovski who he KTFO, prior to facing #1 Fedor.
"Sometimes I wonder if the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on, or by imbeciles who really mean it."
-Mark Twain
"If I tell you I'm good, you would probably think I'm boasting. If I tell you I'm no good, you know I'm lying..."
-Bruce Lee
"People griping about this matchup need to stop using fight finder as their primary source of MMA information and watch some fights already."
-smoogy2
by The American Ronin on Dec 28, 2010 9:51 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Ah, there's a key difference.
If you’re going along that line of thought, you need to be thinking of where those fighters were when they got to title contention.
Cain had already beaten Nogueira, Rothwell, and Kongo when he faced Brock, and JDS has beaten a deeper/better roster of Werdum, Struve, Cro Cop, Gonzaga, and Roy Nelson. Both Cain and JDS fought overmatched opponents at first, but they each won the high-ranking fights when they came. Rogers didn’t.
And as far as Shane Carwin goes, if he had won at UFC 116, people could’ve argued him for #1 with wins over Lesnar, Mir, and Gonzaga (but it wouldn’t have been nearly as convincing).
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Twitter: @KenTheGreat
MBN's Current 5 Favorite Fighters: Nate Diaz / Chris "The Crippler" Leben / Miesha "Takedown" Tate / Shinya Aoki / Georges "Rush" St-Pierre
by McKinley B. Noble on Dec 28, 2010 11:54 PM EST up reply actions
Proud to say I NEVER EVER EVER believed that.
by disinferno06 on Dec 28, 2010 2:03 PM EST up reply actions
So Brock isn’t returning Dana’s calls…
Sounds like we got a LeBron/Dan Gilbert situation brewing. I can’t wait for the Comic Sans letter.
So he's gonna take his talents to Sowf Beech?
They made a video game about Yakuzas. It’s called Yakuza. And it’s about Yakuza
Ha! This is whatever
- Brock in MMA or WWE whatever.
- Negotiating tactics? Yeah whatever.
I’m just still surprised people ranked him above Velasquez, Carwin and Dos Santos after he defeated Randy Couture then Frank Mir.
Fight or don’t fight, it was an interesting ride. I would love to see him back in the Octagon because he has great wrestling, uncharted athleticism for an athlete for his size, GREAT reach advantage . . . unfortunately, he’s not a f*cking fighter.
Excuse my emotional, reactionary, fanatic output but Pettis will be the next UFC lightweight champion. Period.
- - - - -
VEe is ANIMated!
by VeeisAnimated on Dec 28, 2010 11:18 AM EST reply actions 3 recs
I’m just still surprised people ranked him above Velasquez, Carwin and Dos Santos after he defeated Randy Couture then Frank Mir.
Probably because at that point, with the exception of JDS’ win over then #6 Werdum, none of these guys had accomplished much either…
"Sometimes I wonder if the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on, or by imbeciles who really mean it."
-Mark Twain
"If I tell you I'm good, you would probably think I'm boasting. If I tell you I'm no good, you know I'm lying..."
-Bruce Lee
"People griping about this matchup need to stop using fight finder as their primary source of MMA information and watch some fights already."
-smoogy2
by The American Ronin on Dec 28, 2010 12:10 PM EST up reply actions
The more surprising thing is the way he leaped over Fedor and remained ranked over Fedor/Werdum after getting smashed Cain (and Carwin for a round).
Cain was a wild card early on because he was repeatedly in trouble against Kongo, so I could understand people being a bit skeptical of him, but there’s never been a reason for JDS to be ranked below him other than the UFC engineering his path to the belt and hyping him up like mad.
The funny thing is that MMA fans never hold the UFC accountable. Brock had a more privileged and less dominant run than Tim Sylvia, yet he was promoted by the UFC and analysts alike as a beast with unstoppable top control and GnP.
by Mint on Dec 28, 2010 12:39 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
More than anything else,
I personally can’t believe that Brock is still #2, although I had little real issue with him being #1 once Fedor lost. If he lost a UD or SD to Cain, I can see an argument for #2, but given how badly he was dominated twice now I just can’t see it at all.
Then again, I don’t think Werdum should be ranked above Fedor right now – there was too large of a gap between them and Fedor will be the huge favorite when they finally rematch, as he should be.
Cain
Fedor
JDS
Werdum
Lesnar
Carwin
Overeem
Mir
"Sometimes I wonder if the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on, or by imbeciles who really mean it."
-Mark Twain
"If I tell you I'm good, you would probably think I'm boasting. If I tell you I'm no good, you know I'm lying..."
-Bruce Lee
"People griping about this matchup need to stop using fight finder as their primary source of MMA information and watch some fights already."
-smoogy2
by The American Ronin on Dec 28, 2010 12:47 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I can't believe you put Fedor above Werdum
So is that how it works now? We just believe someone is a better fighter even though they lost in 30 seconds to some other guy?
"Turn yourself not away from three best things: Good Thought, Good Word, and Good Deed" - Zoroaster
catch me if you can @ MMA Answers
by SheepleBuster on Dec 28, 2010 12:49 PM EST up reply actions
I do
Do you really think that if #11 LSU beat #1 Auburn in a fluky win that they would jump Auburn in the rankings? And by fluky I mean maybe a 10% chance of it happening in a rematch…
"Sometimes I wonder if the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on, or by imbeciles who really mean it."
-Mark Twain
"If I tell you I'm good, you would probably think I'm boasting. If I tell you I'm no good, you know I'm lying..."
-Bruce Lee
"People griping about this matchup need to stop using fight finder as their primary source of MMA information and watch some fights already."
-smoogy2
by The American Ronin on Dec 28, 2010 12:52 PM EST up reply actions
Sorry DayGeaux
For using your boys as an example…
"Sometimes I wonder if the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on, or by imbeciles who really mean it."
-Mark Twain
"If I tell you I'm good, you would probably think I'm boasting. If I tell you I'm no good, you know I'm lying..."
-Bruce Lee
"People griping about this matchup need to stop using fight finder as their primary source of MMA information and watch some fights already."
-smoogy2
by The American Ronin on Dec 28, 2010 12:54 PM EST up reply actions
Do you know how rough it is, living in Louisiana but not caring about football? Between being a tepid Saints fan and not giving a damn about LSU, I’m basically a heretic down here.
Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try Again. Fail again. Fail better. -Samuel Beckett
Reasoning will never make a man correct an ill opinion, which by reasoning he never acquired. -Jonathan Swift
by Scott C. Broussard on Dec 28, 2010 12:56 PM EST up reply actions
Heretic is the nice way of putting it!
It's official. Les Miles DOES NOT have a deal with the devil. He beat him Nov. 6th, 24-21.
American football is just too slow and dull for me to get behind. Seriously, read this article. It’s ridiculous.
Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try Again. Fail again. Fail better. -Samuel Beckett
Reasoning will never make a man correct an ill opinion, which by reasoning he never acquired. -Jonathan Swift
by Scott C. Broussard on Dec 28, 2010 1:04 PM EST up reply actions
I know man. I’m just giving you a hard time.
It's official. Les Miles DOES NOT have a deal with the devil. He beat him Nov. 6th, 24-21.
I know. I desperately tried to remain a Saints fan this year – I enjoyed watching their Super Bowl run so much last year and wanted to continue, but I couldn’t do it. I do think they have the best uniforms of any team I’ve seen – black, gold, & white with the fleur-de-lis. Beautiful.
Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try Again. Fail again. Fail better. -Samuel Beckett
Reasoning will never make a man correct an ill opinion, which by reasoning he never acquired. -Jonathan Swift
by Scott C. Broussard on Dec 28, 2010 1:11 PM EST up reply actions
My oldest daughter (also obviously from Houston)
got a tat of the fleur-de-lis behind here ear last year…
"Sometimes I wonder if the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on, or by imbeciles who really mean it."
-Mark Twain
"If I tell you I'm good, you would probably think I'm boasting. If I tell you I'm no good, you know I'm lying..."
-Bruce Lee
"People griping about this matchup need to stop using fight finder as their primary source of MMA information and watch some fights already."
-smoogy2
by The American Ronin on Dec 28, 2010 1:21 PM EST up reply actions
Pre-oil spill, at least.
Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try Again. Fail again. Fail better. -Samuel Beckett
Reasoning will never make a man correct an ill opinion, which by reasoning he never acquired. -Jonathan Swift
by Scott C. Broussard on Dec 28, 2010 1:11 PM EST up reply actions
I visited last August
I saw a lot of contrast in the neighborhoods but nature wise it was a very awesome place to be
by Papercut Elbow on Dec 28, 2010 1:15 PM EST up reply actions
I like the I-10 ride from Lafayette to New Orleans - gorgeous swamps.
Which parts did you visit?
Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try Again. Fail again. Fail better. -Samuel Beckett
Reasoning will never make a man correct an ill opinion, which by reasoning he never acquired. -Jonathan Swift
by Scott C. Broussard on Dec 28, 2010 1:18 PM EST up reply actions
Well we did a road trip from NYC to New orleans
We went to the French Quarters but then drove around to other neighborhoods. We went to Squeal BBQ in some college town
by Papercut Elbow on Dec 28, 2010 1:33 PM EST up reply actions
Also really nice people in Louisiana
Although people you assumed to be nice we not. Then people who in NY you would think were gang members greeted us with good afternoon and stuff it was kinda weird.
by Papercut Elbow on Dec 28, 2010 1:39 PM EST up reply actions
Yeah they have some small communities where they know everyone that lives there. My friend is 6’3 270. We went to a small town (Pierre Part where Swamp People is filmed) and he got stares and glares. I told him it was because they’d never seen somebody that big before.
It's official. Les Miles DOES NOT have a deal with the devil. He beat him Nov. 6th, 24-21.
Also you guys have grain alcohol and to-go cups lol
If you have an open alcoholic container in NYC youre getting a summons. In New Orleans the cops isnt ticketing you but point you towards pat o briens lol
by Papercut Elbow on Dec 28, 2010 5:25 PM EST up reply actions
They actually banned go-cups in parts of Lafayette now…times are a-changin’…
Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try Again. Fail again. Fail better. -Samuel Beckett
Reasoning will never make a man correct an ill opinion, which by reasoning he never acquired. -Jonathan Swift
by Scott C. Broussard on Dec 28, 2010 5:28 PM EST up reply actions
Damn! I like the gator po boys although i was told most aligator meat in those fast food palces is like 85% pork lol
by Papercut Elbow on Dec 28, 2010 5:40 PM EST up reply actions
I love gator.
Real alligator tastes like chicken. Randol’s is one of my favorite places to eat – just read the menu. Ridiculously good food.
Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try Again. Fail again. Fail better. -Samuel Beckett
Reasoning will never make a man correct an ill opinion, which by reasoning he never acquired. -Jonathan Swift
by Scott C. Broussard on Dec 28, 2010 5:44 PM EST up reply actions
It has been several years since I spent extensive time in Lousiana (I am in Houston)
But I remember being rather surprised by how much a part of people’s lives high school and college football were (less so pro football). Don’t get me wrong, high school football is a religion here, especially in the smaller towns, but it was more of a cult there. I was usually there in the fall, and everywhere we went people were talking about it.
"Sometimes I wonder if the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on, or by imbeciles who really mean it."
-Mark Twain
"If I tell you I'm good, you would probably think I'm boasting. If I tell you I'm no good, you know I'm lying..."
-Bruce Lee
"People griping about this matchup need to stop using fight finder as their primary source of MMA information and watch some fights already."
-smoogy2
by The American Ronin on Dec 28, 2010 1:20 PM EST up reply actions
Did you move to Houston from La? Oil industry?
My high school didn’t have a football team – we played rugby instead. Awesome sport.
Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try Again. Fail again. Fail better. -Samuel Beckett
Reasoning will never make a man correct an ill opinion, which by reasoning he never acquired. -Jonathan Swift
by Scott C. Broussard on Dec 28, 2010 1:30 PM EST up reply actions
No,
born and raised here (aside from college at A & M). And admittedly my time was almost all spent in NO or Baton Rouge…
I just remember particularly at restaurants where it seemed like everyone was talking football, even from table to adjacent table.
Never cared for organized football myself, and my HS didn’t have rugby although I got to play a season of intermural rugby.
"Sometimes I wonder if the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on, or by imbeciles who really mean it."
-Mark Twain
"If I tell you I'm good, you would probably think I'm boasting. If I tell you I'm no good, you know I'm lying..."
-Bruce Lee
"People griping about this matchup need to stop using fight finder as their primary source of MMA information and watch some fights already."
-smoogy2
by The American Ronin on Dec 28, 2010 1:49 PM EST up reply actions
getting tapped by werdum isnt a fluke.
Getting KOed by a Werdum “showtime kick” would be a fluke. If Fedor winds up in werdums guard again, he very likely could get tapped again.
"Even Hulkamania wouldn't get you out of this hold"
"True strength is not always shown through victory. Stand up, try again and display strength of heart."
by the-gentle-way on Dec 28, 2010 1:02 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
exactly
people pretend like Werdum is a bum in BJJ :)
"Turn yourself not away from three best things: Good Thought, Good Word, and Good Deed" - Zoroaster
catch me if you can @ MMA Answers
by SheepleBuster on Dec 28, 2010 1:03 PM EST up reply actions
Strictly speaking this is true,
and Werdum is completely legit, that is why I qualified “fluky” thusly:
And by fluky I mean maybe a 10% chance of it happening in a rematch…
I agree 100% that it could happen again if he foolishly dives into the guard of one of the best BJJ for MMA players in world, I just don’t think he will be so foolishly overconfident next time.
IMO, Fedor beats Werdum 8/10 or 9/10 times…
"Sometimes I wonder if the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on, or by imbeciles who really mean it."
-Mark Twain
"If I tell you I'm good, you would probably think I'm boasting. If I tell you I'm no good, you know I'm lying..."
-Bruce Lee
"People griping about this matchup need to stop using fight finder as their primary source of MMA information and watch some fights already."
-smoogy2
by The American Ronin on Dec 28, 2010 1:25 PM EST up reply actions
So this is figure skating now? what actually happens in the cage doesnt matter, its just the opinion of a group of people making shit up as they go along? Werdum fought Fedor, we dont need to specualte who the better fighter is. They fought. Werdum went through him like shit through a goose.
Its not that what happens in the cage doesn't matter
but with the way rankings are derived a guy doesn’t jump 8+ spots based on a single fight.
Werdum fought Fedor, we dont need to specualte who the better fighter is.
The only thing that fight told us is who was better on that particular night...
"Sometimes I wonder if the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on, or by imbeciles who really mean it."
-Mark Twain
"If I tell you I'm good, you would probably think I'm boasting. If I tell you I'm no good, you know I'm lying..."
-Bruce Lee
"People griping about this matchup need to stop using fight finder as their primary source of MMA information and watch some fights already."
-smoogy2
by The American Ronin on Dec 28, 2010 1:28 PM EST up reply actions
The only thing that fight told us is who was better on that particular night...
This is very true of any fight ever.
"Even Hulkamania wouldn't get you out of this hold"
"True strength is not always shown through victory. Stand up, try again and display strength of heart."
by the-gentle-way on Dec 28, 2010 1:38 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
I agree in general
but, in watching Cain-Brock for example, I would pick Cain to win 9/10 times (and I foolishly picked Brock to win the first time).
"Sometimes I wonder if the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on, or by imbeciles who really mean it."
-Mark Twain
"If I tell you I'm good, you would probably think I'm boasting. If I tell you I'm no good, you know I'm lying..."
-Bruce Lee
"People griping about this matchup need to stop using fight finder as their primary source of MMA information and watch some fights already."
-smoogy2
by The American Ronin on Dec 28, 2010 1:39 PM EST up reply actions
i would go 10 out of 10, 99 out of a hundred.
Brock’s power double didn’t seem to phase Cain.
"Even Hulkamania wouldn't get you out of this hold"
"True strength is not always shown through victory. Stand up, try again and display strength of heart."
by the-gentle-way on Dec 28, 2010 1:48 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
well. good for you.
you live in a dream world my friend. I go by facts. Cain is better than Lesnar. Werdum is better than Fedor. Until proven otherwise. They’ll fight soon enough again. No? Isn’t it up to Fedor to prove he is better than Werdum? Or do we just give it to him?
"Turn yourself not away from three best things: Good Thought, Good Word, and Good Deed" - Zoroaster
catch me if you can @ MMA Answers
by SheepleBuster on Dec 28, 2010 1:03 PM EST up reply actions
By that logic
Hammill is better than Jones since he has a win over him. And Forrest is better than Anderson since he is ranked higher as a LHW.
IMO Cain is better than Lesnar because he beats him 9/10 times, and Fedor is better than Werdum because he beats him 8/10 times and Overeem is better than everyone aside from Cain because I think he beats all of the others.
I also think, among others, that Jon Jones is, at worst, the 2nd best LHW in the world, and Jacare is, at worst, the 5th best MW in the world.
"Sometimes I wonder if the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on, or by imbeciles who really mean it."
-Mark Twain
"If I tell you I'm good, you would probably think I'm boasting. If I tell you I'm no good, you know I'm lying..."
-Bruce Lee
"People griping about this matchup need to stop using fight finder as their primary source of MMA information and watch some fights already."
-smoogy2
by The American Ronin on Dec 28, 2010 1:34 PM EST up reply actions
i dont think fedor matches up well with werdum.
But the rest of your comment I agree with.
"Even Hulkamania wouldn't get you out of this hold"
"True strength is not always shown through victory. Stand up, try again and display strength of heart."
by the-gentle-way on Dec 28, 2010 1:40 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Perhaps not, but
do you think Werdum can take Fedor down, assuming that surely Fedor will want no part of Werdum on the ground now, all things considered?
"Sometimes I wonder if the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on, or by imbeciles who really mean it."
-Mark Twain
"If I tell you I'm good, you would probably think I'm boasting. If I tell you I'm no good, you know I'm lying..."
-Bruce Lee
"People griping about this matchup need to stop using fight finder as their primary source of MMA information and watch some fights already."
-smoogy2
by The American Ronin on Dec 28, 2010 1:44 PM EST up reply actions
everything i have seen of Fedor
Doesn’t make me think he will stop diving in peoples guard.
Its harder to unlearn something than it is to learn it.
Only time will tell.
"Even Hulkamania wouldn't get you out of this hold"
"True strength is not always shown through victory. Stand up, try again and display strength of heart."
by the-gentle-way on Dec 28, 2010 1:54 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Its quite possible
he is in uncharted territory now (coming off a loss), but I suspect he was too overconfident based on his fights with Big Nog and his combat sambo background and titles…
If he is now training in a cage, which I haven’t been able to find out one way or another, I like his chances, but if not, he may make the same mistakes again…
"Sometimes I wonder if the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on, or by imbeciles who really mean it."
-Mark Twain
"If I tell you I'm good, you would probably think I'm boasting. If I tell you I'm no good, you know I'm lying..."
-Bruce Lee
"People griping about this matchup need to stop using fight finder as their primary source of MMA information and watch some fights already."
-smoogy2
by The American Ronin on Dec 28, 2010 1:58 PM EST up reply actions
The way rankings work, Werdum deserves to be above Fedor right now because he beat him. But Ronin is right about Fedor being a better fighter than Werdum IMO. Ya gotta give credit to Werdum for subbing Fedor, but the chances he does it again and beats him are very low.
"I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me" - Philippians 4:13
I actually agree with this, and if Fedor wins the rematch, then by all means, he is ranked higher. But UNTIL THAT DAY, Werdum is ranked higher.
Given that,
where do you put JDS in regards to Werdum and Fedor in your rankings?
"Sometimes I wonder if the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on, or by imbeciles who really mean it."
-Mark Twain
"If I tell you I'm good, you would probably think I'm boasting. If I tell you I'm no good, you know I'm lying..."
-Bruce Lee
"People griping about this matchup need to stop using fight finder as their primary source of MMA information and watch some fights already."
-smoogy2
by The American Ronin on Dec 28, 2010 1:35 PM EST up reply actions
I put him at 2, above both of them.
Luke: What was our best moment?
Nate: When I banned Subo?
Luke: That was a good one.
When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift
Contributor for WatchKalibRun.com
Still Subo at Fightlinker.com
by Derek Suboticki on Dec 28, 2010 1:51 PM EST up reply actions
That
is a supportable ranking IMO…
So you are:
Cain
JDS
Werdum
Fedor
Lesnar
I take it?
"Sometimes I wonder if the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on, or by imbeciles who really mean it."
-Mark Twain
"If I tell you I'm good, you would probably think I'm boasting. If I tell you I'm no good, you know I'm lying..."
-Bruce Lee
"People griping about this matchup need to stop using fight finder as their primary source of MMA information and watch some fights already."
-smoogy2
by The American Ronin on Dec 28, 2010 1:59 PM EST up reply actions
I believe I have Fedor sixth or seventh. His inactivity isn’t helping him. Guy fought once last year and lost.
Luke: What was our best moment?
Nate: When I banned Subo?
Luke: That was a good one.
When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift
Contributor for WatchKalibRun.com
Still Subo at Fightlinker.com
by Derek Suboticki on Dec 28, 2010 2:00 PM EST up reply actions
Mind posting your top-10?
"Sometimes I wonder if the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on, or by imbeciles who really mean it."
-Mark Twain
"If I tell you I'm good, you would probably think I'm boasting. If I tell you I'm no good, you know I'm lying..."
-Bruce Lee
"People griping about this matchup need to stop using fight finder as their primary source of MMA information and watch some fights already."
-smoogy2
by The American Ronin on Dec 28, 2010 2:01 PM EST up reply actions
Can't spoil the Metas
My ballot, as always, will be made public then.
Luke: What was our best moment?
Nate: When I banned Subo?
Luke: That was a good one.
When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift
Contributor for WatchKalibRun.com
Still Subo at Fightlinker.com
by Derek Suboticki on Dec 28, 2010 2:07 PM EST up reply actions
Previous one then?
"Sometimes I wonder if the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on, or by imbeciles who really mean it."
-Mark Twain
"If I tell you I'm good, you would probably think I'm boasting. If I tell you I'm no good, you know I'm lying..."
-Bruce Lee
"People griping about this matchup need to stop using fight finder as their primary source of MMA information and watch some fights already."
-smoogy2
by The American Ronin on Dec 28, 2010 2:12 PM EST up reply actions
Wait..What!?! You impact the Metas...
No wonder why no one can take them seriously.
"I'm from the Fox News school of media discourse," explained White. "If you tell people your version of the truth enough times, and yell while you do it, eventually they start to believe it. Remember when I saved MMA?"
by CROOKS on Dec 28, 2010 3:02 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
didn't people say that about Frankie Edgar and BJ Penn?
"Turn yourself not away from three best things: Good Thought, Good Word, and Good Deed" - Zoroaster
catch me if you can @ MMA Answers
by SheepleBuster on Dec 28, 2010 1:01 PM EST up reply actions
they also say he won the first one.
They being fight metric and many analysts.
"Even Hulkamania wouldn't get you out of this hold"
"True strength is not always shown through victory. Stand up, try again and display strength of heart."
by the-gentle-way on Dec 28, 2010 1:04 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
well
I admit. I scored it for BJ. I thought it would never ever be possible for Frankie to beat BJ like he did the second time. I was wrong. But I didn’t say BJ was above Frankie after the first like so many did. And BJ lost a very close fight. Fedor got tapped. Man. He got tapped in 30 seconds or something. Come on people
"Turn yourself not away from three best things: Good Thought, Good Word, and Good Deed" - Zoroaster
catch me if you can @ MMA Answers
by SheepleBuster on Dec 28, 2010 1:06 PM EST up reply actions
So b/c Fedor tapped early on, means it’s worse than getting your ass handed to you in embarrassing fasion for 5 straight rounds?! c’mon now.
Last time I checked, it was the first time that’s ever happened to him….ever, and it certainly shouldn’t result in Brock being catapulted over him into the #1/2 HW spot in the world
The first time was not a beatdown. Come on.
The first fight was very close. The second fight was a one sided one. I give you that. We are not talking about Brock man. Fedor lost to Werdum fair and square. It was no fluke. get over it.
"Turn yourself not away from three best things: Good Thought, Good Word, and Good Deed" - Zoroaster
catch me if you can @ MMA Answers
by SheepleBuster on Dec 28, 2010 1:16 PM EST up reply actions
Right, Fedor lost fair and square, plain and simple. No should dispute that at all. Fedor made a mistake and Werdum capitalized on it. But I don’t think most people believe it would happen it again.
It’s the same reason a lot of fans and media had Brock as the favorite against Mir in the rematch at 100.
"I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me" - Philippians 4:13
by Noah'sArk on Dec 28, 2010 1:35 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
Right
Fedor will be a -400 or greater favorite in the rematch…
"Sometimes I wonder if the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on, or by imbeciles who really mean it."
-Mark Twain
"If I tell you I'm good, you would probably think I'm boasting. If I tell you I'm no good, you know I'm lying..."
-Bruce Lee
"People griping about this matchup need to stop using fight finder as their primary source of MMA information and watch some fights already."
-smoogy2
by The American Ronin on Dec 28, 2010 1:40 PM EST up reply actions
Just listening to fighter interviews and comments it’s clear that despite his loss to Werdum, many still see Fedor as the best HW in the world next to Cain. I think in a lot of ways, when all is said and done, Werdum’s win over Fedor will be looked at similar to how Serra’s win was looked at over GSP.
If just looking at a fighter’s skillset and abilities and who I think would win the most fights if you were to pair thse guys up this is how I’d rank the HW’s
Fedor, Cain, Carwin, Brock, JDS, Overeem, Schuab, Mir, Werdum, Bigfoot
"I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me" - Philippians 4:13
I agree
I think in a lot of ways, when all is said and done, Werdum’s win over Fedor will be looked at similar to how Serra’s win was looked at over GSP.
I think so as well. Werdum is certainly no joke, but he is not a better fighter than Fedor IMO.
If I were ignoring normal rankings criteria and going only off whom I believe would beat whom, I would rank:
Cain
Overeem
Fedor
JDS
Carwin
Lesnar
Werdum
Barnett
Nelson
Mir
"Sometimes I wonder if the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on, or by imbeciles who really mean it."
-Mark Twain
"If I tell you I'm good, you would probably think I'm boasting. If I tell you I'm no good, you know I'm lying..."
-Bruce Lee
"People griping about this matchup need to stop using fight finder as their primary source of MMA information and watch some fights already."
-smoogy2
by The American Ronin on Dec 28, 2010 2:17 PM EST up reply actions
Werdum did win, fair and square,
and if Fedor foolishly dives into his guard again, it could very well happen again.
Having said that, Fedor wins 8/10 times and is clearly the better fighter over the last 3 years used for rankings purposes…
"Sometimes I wonder if the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on, or by imbeciles who really mean it."
-Mark Twain
"If I tell you I'm good, you would probably think I'm boasting. If I tell you I'm no good, you know I'm lying..."
-Bruce Lee
"People griping about this matchup need to stop using fight finder as their primary source of MMA information and watch some fights already."
-smoogy2
by The American Ronin on Dec 28, 2010 1:38 PM EST up reply actions
The aforementioned HW trifecta accomplished way more than Lesnar:
Look at their records. All 3 were undefeated in the UFC.
All 3 had way more experience than Brock Lesnar.
I’ve stated this before, the biggest difference between Lesnar and the trio . . . the opportunity to compete for the title. Velasquez obviously made the most of his opportunity. Let’s see what Dos Santos can do and enjoy the ride.
With all this said, damn it would be cool if all of this news amounts to nothing and the UFC secures another match for the Running Man.
Excuse my emotional, reactionary, fanatic output but Pettis will be the next UFC lightweight champion. Period.
- - - - -
VEe is ANIMated!
by VeeisAnimated on Dec 28, 2010 2:20 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
uncharted athleticism for an athlete for his size
Maybe unchartered for MMA, definitely not in football…
Not afraid to nitpick
by joker24 on Dec 28, 2010 12:55 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
In football he’s not even remotely head turning
by disinferno06 on Dec 28, 2010 2:12 PM EST up reply actions
After the beating he absorbed by the hands of
Velasquez, he realizes that there are stronger, better schooled, and competative fighters in the HWD. He let his mouth overload his arse. Another factor is that he has never been man-handled and suffered such a facial injury he received. It will take more than just spouting off of how great you are, you must be willing to take as well as recieve. Lesnar truly will never be the same. He is a broken man
After the beating he absorbed by the hands of Shane Carwin.
. . . Personally, I think Carwin exposed the Running Man before Velasquez exposed The Dancing with Stars contestant.
Excuse my emotional, reactionary, fanatic output but Pettis will be the next UFC lightweight champion. Period.
- - - - -
VEe is ANIMated!
by VeeisAnimated on Dec 28, 2010 11:21 AM EST up reply actions
Yes, agree to a point..
Carwin did almost pound him out in the first round but gassed in the second. He is another statistic unfortunalely. When he was choked-out, he was soon to go in and have surgery on that same neck. Carwin, giving credit where it is due, did soften Lesnar up for Velasquez. However, Velasquez was just smarter, quicker, stronger, and willing to exchange wrestling and striking skills to a whole different level, thus permanently putting Lesnar out to pasteur.
Personally I have been saying that
since Randy. Learning how to take a punch takes years, and some people just don’t have it. I have engaged people in countless arguments on this and always explained that a smaller faster fighter would be Brocks Kryptonite. When Cain was announced I let all my friends know how positive I was that Cain would pull it off, not out of Lesnar hate or anything of the sort but based on what I had long seen in Brock. Raw Strength does not equal punching power and a few basic combinations don’t equal great boxing.
It’s just funny to me that now all these people who used “nobody likes being punched” as a response to "brock does not know how to take a punch (which is a skill for the uninformed) have now seemingly disappeared.
Realstically if you don’t scramble after the takedown and you allow him to move into position (i.e. pulling guard instead of trying to stand up), Brock could pound out anyone in the world. Unfortunately I never thought Brock was the best… perhaps one of the best as long as he was able to impose his gameplan .
"I’m anti-stalling, not anti-wrestling." - lowellthehammer
Many of us had to relearn the lesson that superior skill and technique overcome size/speed/strength if the gap in skill is large enough…
Taking a punch is partly instinctive (i.e. fight or flight) and partly learned (i.e. trained). Some guys can take a punch and completely keep their head instinctively, others panic when hit (like Brock’s initial response), and most are some blend of the 2.
I think it is too late in Brock’s career for him to compensate for his instinctive panic response through training and experience.
"Sometimes I wonder if the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on, or by imbeciles who really mean it."
-Mark Twain
"If I tell you I'm good, you would probably think I'm boasting. If I tell you I'm no good, you know I'm lying..."
-Bruce Lee
"People griping about this matchup need to stop using fight finder as their primary source of MMA information and watch some fights already."
-smoogy2
by The American Ronin on Dec 28, 2010 12:43 PM EST up reply actions
couldn’t have said it better myself. Time can make up for the instinct… unfortunately Brock has neither. His top control is phenominal, but that is Brock in a nutshell. Overall I think he was good for the heavyweight landscape though, because he makes Cain look like this phenominal guy, and if JDS gets past Cain the people who are just beginning to watch MMA get to learn what longer standing fans did years ago about technique and size.
"I’m anti-stalling, not anti-wrestling." - lowellthehammer
I’ve never been impressed with Brock’s skillset, but I admit I gave him size and power too much credit going into the Cain fight. I should’ve known better given his in-ability to keep takedown Carwin or keep Couture down.
"I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me" - Philippians 4:13
by Noah'sArk on Dec 28, 2010 12:49 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Not even his wrestling?
Excuse my emotional, reactionary, fanatic output but Pettis will be the next UFC lightweight champion. Period.
- - - - -
VEe is ANIMated!
by VeeisAnimated on Dec 28, 2010 2:23 PM EST up reply actions
I was speaking of his overalk skillset. His wrestling credentials are unquestionable, although I think it’s been proven already that his wrestling skills are ineffective against other wrestlers.
"I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me" - Philippians 4:13
I wouldn't say ineffective necessarily
He did take Cain down twice, although he was able to get up each time.
"Sometimes I wonder if the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on, or by imbeciles who really mean it."
-Mark Twain
"If I tell you I'm good, you would probably think I'm boasting. If I tell you I'm no good, you know I'm lying..."
-Bruce Lee
"People griping about this matchup need to stop using fight finder as their primary source of MMA information and watch some fights already."
-smoogy2
by The American Ronin on Dec 28, 2010 9:53 PM EST up reply actions
Brock has a looooong leash as far as Dana is concerned.
he said he was taking time off and hunting/hanging w/ his family for awhile. I just assmed that this meant thru the holidays. The new year ain’t even here yet. Should we produce a list of named fighters that do not have fights booked since the last time Brock fought, you know, like the champion, Cain.
by F'n Clownshoes on Dec 28, 2010 11:20 AM EST reply actions
this could be a negotiating ploy to get more from Dana White
bingo. if zuffa increasing his ppv cut, he’ll be back in a heartbeat.
and i don’t put too much stock into the “he hasn’t trained a day” stuff. didn’t he say he was planning to take time off, even before the velasquez fight? plus, it’s the holidays.
Note, he didn’t officially leave yet.
Excuse my emotional, reactionary, fanatic output but Pettis will be the next UFC lightweight champion. Period.
- - - - -
VEe is ANIMated!
by VeeisAnimated on Dec 28, 2010 11:22 AM EST up reply actions
A very good indicator
It is a very interesting story but the one indicator that I can’t get past is how inspired he was to bounce back from the illness…back in the gym and champion this and that. After the Cain beating that seems to be gone and the trademark Lesnar fade away seems to be in the opening stages. The bigger question will fall on Dana White as he has touted the UFC heavyweight division as the “golden age” so to speak and where are they at? There are no HW fights on the horizon minus Mitrione, Hague & Beltran.
Respect the Elbow and follow me on Twitter @duanefinleymma.
Brock pretty much got completely embarassed by Cain. With the illness, he was still coming off his dominant performance against Mir.
New England Patriots: We don't rebuild, we reload
by Austin Martin on Dec 28, 2010 11:36 AM EST up reply actions
I wonder if that’s one reason Brock may be considering leaving the UFC, the embarrassment in his last two fights. Cain absolutely humiliated him in the cage and Carwin was giving him the big-brother treatment before he gassed and gave Brock gift in the 2nd round.
"I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me" - Philippians 4:13
Man, I cannot tell you all how delightful this is.
Seeing Brockle-Snar get retired by Cain is just icing on the cake.
Don't believe a word I say, I don't train BJJ.
I blog at TangleBones - you should follow me on Twitter here.
If you like it, you should put a rec on it.
by jemaleddin on Dec 28, 2010 11:22 AM EST reply actions 1 recs
Maybe!
If so, what have you heard about Brockle-Snar’s plans that make you think that? What in his past conflicts with the analysis above?
Until there’s more information that contradicts this story, pleas refrain from killing my buzz.
Don't believe a word I say, I don't train BJJ.
I blog at TangleBones - you should follow me on Twitter here.
If you like it, you should put a rec on it.
Brock probably can't stand not being the best at something
so now that he got his ass handed to him by a younger faster more talented fighter he would rather bail on the sport instead of being #2.
bingo!
"Turn yourself not away from three best things: Good Thought, Good Word, and Good Deed" - Zoroaster
catch me if you can @ MMA Answers
by SheepleBuster on Dec 28, 2010 11:25 AM EST up reply actions
we all know that he is driven by ego
the big question is will he tuck his tail and run away or get bored at home and recommit himself.
by F'n Clownshoes on Dec 28, 2010 11:30 AM EST up reply actions
He needs to hire Steve Segal to teach him
what it means to fight without using all that wrestling garbage.
"Turn yourself not away from three best things: Good Thought, Good Word, and Good Deed" - Zoroaster
catch me if you can @ MMA Answers
by SheepleBuster on Dec 28, 2010 12:52 PM EST up reply actions
Why didn't he bail after losing to Mir in his first UFC fight?
Although, he was never dominated by Mir the way Cain whooped on him.
He had an excuse about gift wrapped for that loss though since Mazagatti is a terrible ref. It’s easy to accept a loss if you can blame it on someone else.
www.mmalinker.com
by exsanguinator on Dec 28, 2010 11:32 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
he was not punched in the face as hard
I hear Brock is worried about “brain damage.” It was reported quite a while ago. This whole MMA thing was a test for him. in his first few fights, he was not rocked this badly.
"Turn yourself not away from three best things: Good Thought, Good Word, and Good Deed" - Zoroaster
catch me if you can @ MMA Answers
by SheepleBuster on Dec 28, 2010 11:34 AM EST up reply actions
because he made one mistake and felt like he could fix it and dominate Mir the next time they fought
which he did.
There’s not much he can do agianst Cain…other than work on his standup for two years and come back and hope that Cain hasn’t improved.
I think you may have just answered your own question.
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by Neil Manich on Dec 28, 2010 12:40 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
That summarization of Meltzer's comments is incorrect
Meltzer never claimed any sources informed him of any of this, he was speculating based on how he perceived the situation. The exact line was “there’s two Brocks, either the Brock who wants it real bad or the Brock who is looking for an exit strategy, who’s the business man, who’s rich, happy and now doesn’t want to get hurt.” He then gave his opinion on the situation but there’s nothing definitive or directly from anyone close to Brock being reported during that conversation.
by Jamie Penick on Dec 28, 2010 11:28 AM EST reply actions 2 recs
the bit about the source is my own speculation
none of the quotes or summary of Meltzer’s radio show mentions a source.
Follow me on Twitter @KidNate
by Nate Wilcox on Dec 28, 2010 11:44 AM EST up reply actions
but we know he always has one :)
"Turn yourself not away from three best things: Good Thought, Good Word, and Good Deed" - Zoroaster
catch me if you can @ MMA Answers
by SheepleBuster on Dec 28, 2010 11:48 AM EST up reply actions
Brock's got the BJ Penn problem
He’s using his best friend Marty Morgan as his head coach despite his lack of MMA coaching experience. Wrestling coaching to a national title? No problem. But Morgan is not an MMA coach.
One of the biggest mistakes Lesnar made was getting rid of Greg Nelson imo. Erik Paulson can only be there for a couple of weeks at a time since he has other fighters and a gym in Orange County California. Greg Nelson knows wrestling, he knows BJJ (blackbelt under Pedro Sauer), and he knows Thai Kickboxing (he’s a Kru under Ajarn Chai Sirisute of the Thai Boxing Association of the USA, and is one of the go-to guys in the US when it comes to the clinch.) Plus he’s qualified in Jeet Kune Do, FMA and Silat under Guru Dan Inosanto. He’s also respected by many other coaches, including Pat Miletich.
So yeah, Lesnar has his friend and college wrestling coach Marty Morgan who won’t bring in the right training partners other than other wrestlers and won’t convince him to get some hard kickboxing sparring in.
by KJ Gould on Dec 28, 2010 11:30 AM EST reply actions 2 recs
No. He does not.
Brock is never going to stick around anything too long. We all know this day would come. Brock cares alot about life and his family. He does love money but does not like sacrificing things. He does not like TV interviews. Does not like traveling a lot. Does not like being too long away from his family. It’s not BJ problem. It’s a mountain man’s problem :)
"Turn yourself not away from three best things: Good Thought, Good Word, and Good Deed" - Zoroaster
catch me if you can @ MMA Answers
by SheepleBuster on Dec 28, 2010 11:37 AM EST up reply actions
Mountain men don't care about money or fame
Stuff that Lesnar has shown that he enjoys, but not at the cost of discomfort. Lesnar has cultivated this purist, mountain man, viking warrior mystique but his actions say otherwise. But Lesnar wants to be comfortable as opposed to those freaks like Michael Jordan who pursue greatness with a single-mindedness that borders on insanity. Nor is he a purist, someone who enjoys and practices the art for the sake of the art. He’s an ordinary guy blessed with extraordinary physical talents, who enjoys his hobbies (just because he enjoys hunting doesn’t make him any more of a warrior than someone who enjoys, say, rock-climbing, camping or hiking).
by Pantherhare on Dec 28, 2010 12:48 PM EST up reply actions
He wants to live his life
instead of being slave to his career or the desire to be perfect. I respect that. I wish I could have that kind of life. Instead of trying to be a media you-know-what, Brock wants to be left alone. Haters can hate. But Brock is OK by me. He may not be pleasant or polite or social, but he is living his life. Haters can bash him from their rat race.
"Turn yourself not away from three best things: Good Thought, Good Word, and Good Deed" - Zoroaster
catch me if you can @ MMA Answers
by SheepleBuster on Dec 28, 2010 12:50 PM EST up reply actions
I can totally get behind just living your life
and not killing yourself for greatness or whatever. But he needs to cut that gladiator zen stuff, about how he was put on earth to fight. It’s clear he doesn’t really believe that.
that's called marketing and Roganamics
"Turn yourself not away from three best things: Good Thought, Good Word, and Good Deed" - Zoroaster
catch me if you can @ MMA Answers
by SheepleBuster on Dec 28, 2010 3:09 PM EST up reply actions
BJ and Brock
are opposites, Brock is a training monster with some talent and BJ is a prodigy who is lazy.
Doesn't sound like he's training too hard right now
And I could be wrong, but from what I understand, he’s not a gym rat either, when he’s not in training camp.
by Pantherhare on Dec 28, 2010 12:50 PM EST up reply actions
Hello? Declined deer squats
http://coolmmaphotos.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/12/UFC-Brock-Lesnar-hunting-4-400×600.jpg
It's official. Les Miles DOES NOT have a deal with the devil. He beat him Nov. 6th, 24-21.
My bet (hope) is that Meltzer’s source is someone in the Lesnar camp (ie Paul Heyman) who is trying to talk up Lesnar’s disinterest in returning to the UFC in order to raise the asking price.
Ding, ding, ding, I think Kid Nate may have struck a winner here. This so has master manipulator’s Paul Heyman’s fingertips all over this. “His goal for this year is to make as much money as possible” – Dave Meltzer on Lesnar, but it could equally apply to Heyman as well. What better way to maximise autobiography sales, that Paul Heyman ghost wrote, than to appear both on WWE Raw and The Ultimate Fighter in the run up to the book’s release?
by Keith Harris on Dec 28, 2010 11:30 AM EST reply actions 4 recs
Heh, not surprised. I called it a while back too.
2mill for wrasslin for 30 min? Do not blame him.
Mike Goldberg: "You know Joe, When Matt and his brother Mark Hughes were growing up, they would pound each other behind the barn."
Nate
Did you check out the today’s Wrestling Observer podcast?
http://www.mmarocks.pl
https://twitter.com/mmarocks_pl
I was thinking the same thing, as Dave Meltzer on today’s Wrestling Observer radio show was speculating (some would say pushing the idea) again that Brock Lesnar being a coach on The Ultimate Fighter reality TV show with Frank Mir would be a mutually favourable ratings quid pro quo for Dana White allowing Brock to pick up an easy WrestleMania pay check.
by Keith Harris on Dec 28, 2010 11:38 AM EST up reply actions
Brock Lesnar being a coach on The Ultimate Fighter reality TV show with Frank Mir would be a mutually favourable ratings quid pro quo for Dana White allowing Brock to pick up an easy WrestleMania pay check.
At the end of the day, this seems like the most logical – and likely – outcome…
"Sometimes I wonder if the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on, or by imbeciles who really mean it."
-Mark Twain
"If I tell you I'm good, you would probably think I'm boasting. If I tell you I'm no good, you know I'm lying..."
-Bruce Lee
"People griping about this matchup need to stop using fight finder as their primary source of MMA information and watch some fights already."
-smoogy2
by The American Ronin on Dec 28, 2010 12:16 PM EST up reply actions
have downloaded haven't listened yet
Follow me on Twitter @KidNate
by Nate Wilcox on Dec 28, 2010 11:46 AM EST up reply actions
care to elaborate?
Follow me on Twitter @KidNate
by Nate Wilcox on Dec 28, 2010 12:43 PM EST up reply actions
“Brock Lesnar. Oh my God! I didn’t say he was never going to fight again. I thought I made it pretty clear that I expected him to fight once next year or maybe even twice. It’s amazing how things get blown out of proportion.” – That’s how Dave started off with Bryan egging him on, before talking about how Lesnar’s athletic prime is coming to an end and consequently how Lesnar wants to maximise his earning potential this year, which requires him to fight at least once against a big drawing card like Mir.
by Keith Harris on Dec 28, 2010 1:03 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
If this is true
And say Lesnar’s heart is out of fighting and he plans to move on…I can’t possibly see him entering into a “final” bout so to speak with the UFC. Going with the two Brocks theory he is either all in or on his way all out. Confidence is part of the appeal and he didn’t look too confident after the Cain beating. Tough call…can’t wait to see how this one turns out.
Respect the Elbow and follow me on Twitter @duanefinleymma.
If it’s a negotiating ploy, I can’t blame him.
If he’s really done, I can’t blame him; he’s got enough money and if he needs more, he does a show-and-go at Wrestling events.
I rarely tweet
I less-rarely write
"I ain't having it" - Buster Posey, hosing folks down
Where is Black Lesnar ? Scooting the internet to find a new idol maybe ?
Well, anybody who knows me knows I'm no fan of dictionaries or reference books. They're elitist. Constantly telling us what is or isn't true. Or what did or didn't happen.
by MarcoDos on Dec 28, 2010 11:48 AM EST reply actions 6 recs
LULZ
or crying himself to sleep.
"Brock Lesnar's NCAA record 8 years removed is absolutely relevant. Alistair Overeem winning the K-1 World Grand Prix in 2010? A total Non sequitur that isn't worth debate."
by VelociAldo on Dec 28, 2010 1:50 PM EST up reply actions 4 recs
I love the fact that I'm on your n****s' minds so much
As I’ve stated for months, Brock Lesnar isn’t my favorite fighter or even in my top 5.
Reppin' the NYMMAI.
Black Lesnar aka Slap ya Favorite MMA Writer
Follow me on Twitter
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by S.C. Michaelson on Dec 28, 2010 4:36 PM EST up reply actions
Brock is smart
Tuf + Wrestlemania. That’s like the dream deal.
"Turn yourself not away from three best things: Good Thought, Good Word, and Good Deed" - Zoroaster
catch me if you can @ MMA Answers
this all speculation and crap. because one brock makes more money in the ufc than did in wwe plus not mention his sponership dollars and his clothling line. finacially and health wise hes better off. plus brocks lost before and look what happen he came back stronger and beat mirs down like he was nothing. and the same thing gone happen hes gone get a tune up match with frank mir, and someone else, and then fight’s cain again and leave him a bloody knocked out mess. and be once again the ufc heavywieght champion. you can take that to the bank meltzer with your crazy theroies.
yea...
"What do you know about my vision? My vision will turn your world upside down, tear asunder your illusions and send the sanctuary of your own ignorance crashing down around you. Now ask yourself: Are you really ready to see that vision?"
-Huey Freeman
Wrestling mania and no amounts of what you call 'tune-ups' will not help to any extent.
Lesnar just does not have visceral fortitude to do a re-match with Velasquez. Lesnar could not even manage to do a post-fight interview in the octogon. He got on his roller-skates and zipped out of the auditorium ASAP. My personal opinion is that Lesnar was not only physically beaten down but psychologically so. The most intelligent thing for him to do is cut his losses and go into a ‘safe’ kind of sport, like the phony-world of Mania
he did a post fight in the Ring.
He said he would be back when rogan asked.
"Even Hulkamania wouldn't get you out of this hold"
"True strength is not always shown through victory. Stand up, try again and display strength of heart."
by the-gentle-way on Dec 28, 2010 12:32 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
The next TUF:
Dana: “Do you wanna be a f**king Ultimate Fighter?”
Brock: “Nope.”
Cue end credits.
Koscheck has frosted tips.
by Ozzz on Dec 28, 2010 11:52 AM EST reply actions 5 recs
I don't know how much good can come out of TUF for Lesnar
He does not need it for exposure or popularity and he won’t get a title shot out of it.
Also Brock will be coaching guys who have probably been in the sport longer than he has and really what is he going to teach them?
Brock: ok so all you have to do is walk up to the guy and put him in a headlock, which should be super easy because you know your bigger stronger and faster than him right? Then you punch him in the head a few times with your lunch box size hands until the ref stops the fight! Drink a Coors light, scream at your broken opponent and collect your paycheck! You should have the belt in not time!
what?
brock won’t get a title shot? Are you serious? If that Cain fight was anything close, we’d be looking at a rematch now. :)
"Turn yourself not away from three best things: Good Thought, Good Word, and Good Deed" - Zoroaster
catch me if you can @ MMA Answers
by SheepleBuster on Dec 28, 2010 12:06 PM EST up reply actions
Thinking it could be one of three possibilities
1) the report is false and Brock still wants to fight or maybe trying to get a better deal on the next contract. Nothing to see here.
2) The story is right and Brock wants out. I’m could see it with him being in his mid 30s, having taken a beating in his last two fights, and surviving a near death experience. If it is true what will be interesting to see is how many fans to turn against him as a quitter and overrated. MMA fans are a fickle and emotional bunch,
3) He’s looking to finish his 3rd match and be a free agent. Then either the UFC has got to drive a dump truck full of money to the guy that sells 1 million ppv per fight or maybe he talks to Showtime. People might laugh at that but Showtime could make money selling 300 plus ppv (they would be the provider) and still pay Brock twice what he’s making with the UFC. They could easily see him as a potential “Tyson” for them. And just the fear of Showtime getting their hands on Honky Kong might be enough to get Zuffa to dish out more than any thought possible.
I think Brock wants to unify WWE and UFC titles.
That’d be huge. haha
"Turn yourself not away from three best things: Good Thought, Good Word, and Good Deed" - Zoroaster
catch me if you can @ MMA Answers
by SheepleBuster on Dec 28, 2010 12:07 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
never thought of the showtime angle.
that would be cool to see Brock go with Alistair, barrnett,fedor ,werdum.
The real question is will all the ufc marks say brock instantly sucks if he goes to showtime.
"Even Hulkamania wouldn't get you out of this hold"
"True strength is not always shown through victory. Stand up, try again and display strength of heart."
by the-gentle-way on Dec 28, 2010 12:37 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
The real question is will all the ufc marks say brock instantly sucks if he goes to showtime
Ha – do you really even need to ask this question? Seriously though, if he loses there, then he sucks and was always over-rated and if he wins there it just shows how another guy who “couldn’t cut it in the big leagues” has exposed SF for what they are…
Or something close to that…
"Sometimes I wonder if the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on, or by imbeciles who really mean it."
-Mark Twain
"If I tell you I'm good, you would probably think I'm boasting. If I tell you I'm no good, you know I'm lying..."
-Bruce Lee
"People griping about this matchup need to stop using fight finder as their primary source of MMA information and watch some fights already."
-smoogy2
by The American Ronin on Dec 28, 2010 12:49 PM EST up reply actions
sad but true
"Even Hulkamania wouldn't get you out of this hold"
"True strength is not always shown through victory. Stand up, try again and display strength of heart."
by the-gentle-way on Dec 28, 2010 1:11 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Brock shouldn't care what MMA fans think about him though
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by Neil Manich on Dec 28, 2010 12:42 PM EST up reply actions
He shouldn’t. So, unfair or not what do you think the odds are that a lot of fans turn on him if he leaves?
How many of the people that followed him over will go to Showtime, though? That could be a huge move for Showtime/Viacom.
I think Brock vs. Fedor would do 500k on Showtime PPV.
Walter Cronkite wasn’t known as Kid Cronk for a fucking reason.
"Unfortunately, it won’t shut anyone up, but if (the Falcons) get a Lombardi, I’m going to spend all of 2011 not giving a rat’s ass what anyone says." – Dave Choate
by Anthony Pace on Dec 28, 2010 4:54 PM EST up reply actions
Well, there is no evidence that he’s really thinking about doing that but it too fun not imagine. Lets see, 300,000 plus followed him to the UFC, so 500,000 with a big Showtime push against Fedor, Overeem, or Lashley (easy payday!) is possible. With Showtime making money as provider they could give Brock $1 mil + $10 per buy with a $3 mil guarantee and either still plan on making money or use it as a loss leader to get people used to buying non-UFC cards.
Best case scenario Cerrone gets cut and both him and Brock sign with Strikeforce. Worth it just to see Subo’s reaction.
Best “Gift of the Magi” scenario, Brock signs with Strikeforce just as Fedor and Overeem sign with the UFC.
by John Nash on Dec 28, 2010 5:05 PM EST up reply actions 4 recs
I hate you.
Luke: What was our best moment?
Nate: When I banned Subo?
Luke: That was a good one.
When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift
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by Derek Suboticki on Dec 28, 2010 5:07 PM EST up reply actions
They would give Brock more of a guarantee than that.
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by S.C. Michaelson on Dec 28, 2010 5:23 PM EST up reply actions
Yeah, I think there's very little likelihood of it happening
But the way the scenarios play out is fascinating. I bet Kid Nate would have to bust out the lube over the amount of traffic that would get
Walter Cronkite wasn’t known as Kid Cronk for a fucking reason.
"Unfortunately, it won’t shut anyone up, but if (the Falcons) get a Lombardi, I’m going to spend all of 2011 not giving a rat’s ass what anyone says." – Dave Choate
by Anthony Pace on Dec 28, 2010 5:54 PM EST up reply actions
Taking a few more ASS WHIPPINGS!
Is the perfect exit strategy!
"I'm from the Fox News school of media discourse," explained White. "If you tell people your version of the truth enough times, and yell while you do it, eventually they start to believe it. Remember when I saved MMA?"
If true, it sucks
I’m no Brock Lesnar fan, but I’d be lying if I said I don’t like watching him fight. He brings a big sports, larger-than-life feel to every card he’s on, and that somethings MMA would sorely miss if he wasn’t around.
If Brock leaves, I think it’s because he knows he has no chance at beating Cain and a lot less likely chance of beating Carwin in a rematch (given he fixes his conditioning). Brock won’t settle for anything other than being on top.
The only good thing that could possibly come out of Brock leaving the UFC after his last contracted fight it a possible dream match against Fedor in Strikefore. I’m sure Coker would spend big money to get Brock for at least that one fight
"I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me" - Philippians 4:13
If Brock retires
Strikeforce officially has the better heavyweight division. What with Carwin’s back, the continued fade of Nog and Cro Cop, the UFC division is basically two fighters deep with a prospect in Shaub.
Contributor at cagepages.com Come check us out.
Head Kick Legend
yeah but the jury is out on Carwin until his next fight. There’s no telling how he’ll look when he returns. His back surgery wasn’t very invasive
"I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me" - Philippians 4:13
I hope he comes back
A Carwin/Cain fight would be awesome, but the guy is 35 years old.
Contributor at cagepages.com Come check us out.
Head Kick Legend
by Neil Manich on Dec 28, 2010 12:48 PM EST up reply actions
I’m still salivating over thatl match-up, which I think is inevitable. Carwin’s age is a factor, but his saving grace is he hasn’t taken hardly any damage in his career and his style and power can give him a little added time to his career.
"I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me" - Philippians 4:13
LOL, wasn't very invasive? Take a second look at the wound they left on the back of his neck.
Carwin will be lucky if he really ever returns to MMA. This was one of the most invasive surgeries anyone could endure outside of being tortured by a bunch of knife-wielding killers like Manson.
Someone involved in the medical field that posts here (I’m forgetting the poster’s name) talked about Carwin’s surgery. They compared it to other back surgeries and one’s other athletes have had (such as Tito’s) and how Carwin’s was actually very low risk and a fairly easy procedure that required the quickest road to recovery, which is why he’ll be able to train come January and be ready to fight by May.
I wish I could remember the poster’s name, maybe he will see this and chime in, but I wanna say he dealtwith the insurance/underwriting in hospitals and he was quite familiar with the surgery Carwin had
"I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me" - Philippians 4:13
The surgery Carwin had will require at least a year to heal, but personally,
I believe if Carwin desire to live a healthy and productive life, he will not risk another MMA bout with anyone of substance. The surgery went down into the vertabrae and nerves to reach the injured area of concern. It will not take much to ruin all that craft doled out to him by his ortho-doc. I would have to give Carwin the benefit of the doubt that he is intelligent enough to put away such fantasies. Do a retake and look at the horrible incision work and stapling job some Quack did on the back of his neck. Hint: I’ve seen some bloody, sloppy surgeries in the past. Doc s don’t always act with percision.
BeeTrain was the poster I was remembering. He talks about it here. http://www.bloodyelbow.com/2010/11/3/1791810/shane-carwins-back-surgery-successful
There is also another article on MMAJunkie that mentioned the surgery was not very invasive
http://mmajunkie.com/news/21260/shane-carwins-recovering-from-back-surgery-camp-calls-procedure-successful.mma
"I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me" - Philippians 4:13
and let me mention I was wrong about Carwin’s surgery having less risk during surgery, but right about it being less invasive.
Also, Carwin’s surgery is not going to require at least a years to recover as you say. Carwin has frequently mentioned that his doctor’s said he can return to full contact training in January and fight by May. He only required 2 months of rehab. Bee Train mentioned the quicker recovery in his initial posts as well
"I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me" - Philippians 4:13
I respect your hopefulness in Carwin's return to glory
However, don’t always believe what you hear or read. A neck injury with the damages on the nerve roots and vertabrae was not like a scratch from the fingernairls of a night out in the red-district. This was a very invasive surgery that will almost eliminate him from further quality match-ups. He knows the risks and personally don’t think he wants to live out his Sunset years in a disable condition.
I’ve said the jury is out on Carwin. We don’t know yet how he’ll perform in the Octagon. It’s clear though he got the surgery to deal with the problem and increase his quality of life and performance in the cage. But there I just provided example showing it was less invasive. I’m sure a little research into the subject would clarify it one way or the other. All I’ve seen about the surgery from articles and comments from Carwin’s camp was that it was a serious surgery, but not invasive (hence why he is recovering so quickly). All you’re doing is speculating based on your opinions and nothing more.
"I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me" - Philippians 4:13
Yes, you have read and have believed so much that you actually believe
Carwin will be back to score big. If he does it will be his undoing because a neck injury, even repaired can still be very bothersome as far as recorrecting itself. Let’s resume this debate after this so-called May fight you say he will participate. Lol, by the way, I am a operation-room nurse and have worked recovery. I will let you continue with your beliefs and may you be right in your assessment. Personally, I think that my assessment will prevail. Good-luck and enjoy MMA in a more realistic way.
You keep bringing up some false notion that I said Carwin is going to come back better than ever. Where have I said that he is going to “return to glory” or “score big?” I’ve said nothing of the sort and said more than once that Carwin’s success in the UFC is a question mark. Nice try though.
I also like how you try to belittle the fact I read something that has been reported by a respectable MMA site about Carwin’s surgery and by another poster who is said to have dealt with the type of surgery Carwin required and how I shouldn’t believe that, yet I should take your word instead. What sense does that make and that kind of defeats your whole argument.
I’m no doctor or nurse, nor would I try to claim to have any vast knowledge of the medical field. All I can do as a fan is go by what I’ve read and seen reported and all that leads me to is Carwin had a less invasive, but more dangerous, surgery to correct his back issues that required less recovery and rehabilitation time than another form of surgery such as fusion. Carwin is the one updating on his rehab and the time-frame which his doctors are stating he can fight and train.
"I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me" - Philippians 4:13
Yes, you have read and have believed so much that you actually believe
Carwin will be back to score big. If he does it will be his undoing because a neck injury, even repaired can still be very bothersome as far as recorrecting itself. Let’s resume this debate after this so-called May fight you say he will participate. Lol, by the way, I am a operation-room nurse and have worked recovery. I will let you continue with your beliefs and may you be right in your assessment. Personally, I think that my assessment will prevail. Good-luck and enjoy MMA in a more realistic way.
You literally have no clue what you’re talking about in any post in any post in this article.
"Don’t quote old fucks to me" – Brent Brookhouse
by Chris Barton on Dec 28, 2010 3:33 PM EST up reply actions
No, they don't.
It’s hard to have the better division when you can’t get your own champion to defend his title.
MMA Fan Since Forrest Griffin vs. Stephan Bonnar
Twitter: @KenTheGreat
MBN's Current 5 Favorite Fighters: Nate Diaz / Chris "The Crippler" Leben / Miesha "Takedown" Tate / Shinya Aoki / Georges "Rush" St-Pierre
by McKinley B. Noble on Dec 28, 2010 2:24 PM EST up reply actions
Fact of the matter
Is the UFC’s HW division is about to suck.
Contributor at cagepages.com Come check us out.
Head Kick Legend
been saying this.
But all i get are flames :D
"Brock Lesnar's NCAA record 8 years removed is absolutely relevant. Alistair Overeem winning the K-1 World Grand Prix in 2010? A total Non sequitur that isn't worth debate."
by VelociAldo on Dec 28, 2010 2:49 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Before the Cain fight...
Brock said that after the Cain fight he would take some time off to go hunting for the winter, and now Meltzer is SHOCKED that Brock is taking some time off to go hunting for the winter.
Exactly
But don’t blame Meltzer, blame the journos.
Reppin' the NYMMAI.
Black Lesnar aka Slap ya Favorite MMA Writer
Follow me on Twitter
Read me at WatchKalibRun . Imma write til the wheels fall off.
by S.C. Michaelson on Dec 28, 2010 4:34 PM EST up reply actions
And not Kid Nate
Reppin' the NYMMAI.
Black Lesnar aka Slap ya Favorite MMA Writer
Follow me on Twitter
Read me at WatchKalibRun . Imma write til the wheels fall off.
by S.C. Michaelson on Dec 28, 2010 7:10 PM EST up reply actions
Cut Lesnar
He obviously can’t hang with the UFC heavyweights. Let him go make money in wrestling, after that he can always be on clown cards with Tim Sylvia.
The UFC will make up another star and do great without him.
..!..
by nostraboris on Dec 28, 2010 1:03 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
He obviously can’t hang with the UFC heavyweights.
Nostraboris must be some kind of Bizarro World version of Nostradamus that gets the past wrong.
Luke: What was our best moment?
Nate: When I banned Subo?
Luke: That was a good one.
When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift
Contributor for WatchKalibRun.com
Still Subo at Fightlinker.com
by Derek Suboticki on Dec 28, 2010 1:52 PM EST up reply actions 4 recs
He's not talking about the past.
The future is a post-Cain world. And in that world, where everyone knows Brock can’t take a smoosh to the bonce, I’d wager my money on any of half a dozen heavyweights against Lesnar.
Nelson vs Lesnar would be interesting. JDS ditto. And Cain owns him, as does Carwin, despite the roidlegs.
Koscheck has frosted tips.
guess we can move Overeem up the HW rankings now
Who's the only one here who knows illegal ninja moves from the government?
With Mir not having either a Cro Cop or Schaub fight scheduled
It would seem like the UFC is trying to keep him available for TUF. Like people have said, it makes the most sense for all parties involved for Brock to film the show and have the grudge match, netting the UFC and Brock tons and tons of money, at which case Brock will go to the WWE and make more. Hell, the UFC may even get a % of the WWE ppv revenue because of all the promotion they would’ve done with Brock’s face behind a camera for that long.
This being said though, Brock would probably demand a stupid amount of money for having his privacy violated so much. But at this point, knowing Brock is looking for a way out, it only makes sense for Dana and Joe to offer him what they perceive as the most winnable fight.
New England Patriots: We don't rebuild, we reload
"This in conjunction with the Mir-Schaub fight being off makes me even more convinced that there is some serious HORSE-TRADING going on between Lesnar and the UFC."
The ufc should give him some of the horses Alistair has been eating. Apparently an all Appaloosa diet really helps with your Muay Thai.
"Even Hulkamania wouldn't get you out of this hold"
"True strength is not always shown through victory. Stand up, try again and display strength of heart."
by the-gentle-way on Dec 28, 2010 1:31 PM EST via mobile reply actions
Lesnar will finish out his contract but I have no doubt that he is ready to be done with MMA. He’s a front-runner and getting the shit kicked out of you kind of takes that away. If he sticks around it isn’t because he’s “got the fire” as much as Dana’s “got the money”
Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
MMA Editor - SBNation.com
by Brent Brookhouse on Dec 28, 2010 1:47 PM EST reply actions
You have no doubt? None at all? You’re sure? Without question?
Luke: What was our best moment?
Nate: When I banned Subo?
Luke: That was a good one.
When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift
Contributor for WatchKalibRun.com
Still Subo at Fightlinker.com
by Derek Suboticki on Dec 28, 2010 1:53 PM EST up reply actions
I have no doubt that right now he is ready to be done with MMA. Could that change in the future? Yes. But it’s not like I don’t spend my days asking around about these things.
Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
MMA Editor - SBNation.com
by Brent Brookhouse on Dec 28, 2010 1:58 PM EST up reply actions
Brent, if I remember right Dana was saying he had problems with Brock before UFC 116 and UFC 121. That there was some sort of friction between them. What are the odds that Brock has been looking at the $3 or 4 million he gets for a million buys and thinking it nearly isn’t enough? That he’s trying to get that last fight out of the way so he can be a free agent with a lot more leverage in negotiating any future fights?
It's never been said that Brock wasn't greedy.
He knows what he is worth.
Difference is, him losing a fight gives Dana the leverage to lower Brock’s salary. And you can bet they fought over every cent that Brock gets paid. Especially considering that he doesn’t have a “win bonus” for his fights.
MMA Fan Since Forrest Griffin vs. Stephan Bonnar
Twitter: @KenTheGreat
MBN's Current 5 Favorite Fighters: Nate Diaz / Chris "The Crippler" Leben / Miesha "Takedown" Tate / Shinya Aoki / Georges "Rush" St-Pierre
by McKinley B. Noble on Dec 28, 2010 2:18 PM EST up reply actions
I wonder if Paul Heyman told Brock he could make twice as much on a Showtime PPV
Walter Cronkite wasn’t known as Kid Cronk for a fucking reason.
"Unfortunately, it won’t shut anyone up, but if (the Falcons) get a Lombardi, I’m going to spend all of 2011 not giving a rat’s ass what anyone says." – Dave Choate
by Anthony Pace on Dec 28, 2010 4:56 PM EST up reply actions
He’ll make an appearance in WWE here and there for a few big pay days sooner or later. I’ve been saying that since his loss to Cain; although, I honestly expected him to try and make a run for the title again before coming to that. I expected he’d get Mir and then get his rematch with Cain before he made that decision, since I ddn’t believe he could beat Cain in a rematch.
I would not at all be surprised to see Brock take a big payday from Strikeforce to face Fedor as well.
"I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me" - Philippians 4:13
Called this.
Guy was a great wrestler, and achieved a championship in a fairly soft division due to his impressive physical gifts.
But I don’t think he ever had a fighters mentality.
"Brock Lesnar's NCAA record 8 years removed is absolutely relevant. Alistair Overeem winning the K-1 World Grand Prix in 2010? A total Non sequitur that isn't worth debate."
by VelociAldo on Dec 28, 2010 1:50 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
As I said over at SBNation.com:
The thing that Dana White and the UFC should do is go ahead and let him go back to WWE. There’s no real worry of the horrible WWE product being confused with legitimate high level athletics. No one is going to think that there is some wrestling/MMA crossover if Lesnar goes back to the WWE.
And if he does leave, the UFC should bury him. Say that he quit on the sport because he didn’t have the heart (it isn’t a lie). Build up Cain Velasquez as the man who chased Brock from the sport of mixed martial arts. Just force him to sign a contract saying that if he returns to mixed martial arts in the next ten years it must be for the UFC (that way he can’t run to Strikeforce) and let him go. And then bury him. It’s probably better for long term business than dealing with trying to find a fight he can win that is still meaningful.
Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
MMA Editor - SBNation.com
by Brent Brookhouse on Dec 28, 2010 1:59 PM EST reply actions
Straight to the jugular.
You think the Brock Lesner fanbase would leave MMA and run back to WWE if he went to WWE? Or did Dana White do what he needed to do and pull that fanbase and introduce them to MMA (or UFC from what everyone keeps telling me)?
They made a video game about Yakuzas. It’s called Yakuza. And it’s about Yakuza
Brock has his own fanbase independent of what he's competing in IMO.
OHHHHH! OH MY GOODNESS DID YOU SEE THAT?! He ran up the wall like a ninja and landed a high kick! Unbelievable! I've never seen anything like that, it's like something out of a movie!
by lowellthehammer on Dec 28, 2010 2:45 PM EST up reply actions
eh
I don’t think his wrestling fans will translate to everything.
They did to MMA because it’s still a combat sport.
"Brock Lesnar's NCAA record 8 years removed is absolutely relevant. Alistair Overeem winning the K-1 World Grand Prix in 2010? A total Non sequitur that isn't worth debate."
Just force him to sign a contract saying that if he returns to mixed martial arts in the next ten years it must be for the UFC (that way he can’t run to Strikeforce) and let him go.
Guessing you were probably already well aware that WWE had Brock sign a similar sort of no-compete deal when he left and that it wasn’t too successful for them, but I’ll post it for anybody who might not have known.
Also
I hope Mir beats his ass in the rubber match and sends him packing properly.
"Brock Lesnar's NCAA record 8 years removed is absolutely relevant. Alistair Overeem winning the K-1 World Grand Prix in 2010? A total Non sequitur that isn't worth debate."
That's funny.
Mir wouldn’t get past the first takedown attempt.
MMA Fan Since Forrest Griffin vs. Stephan Bonnar
Twitter: @KenTheGreat
MBN's Current 5 Favorite Fighters: Nate Diaz / Chris "The Crippler" Leben / Miesha "Takedown" Tate / Shinya Aoki / Georges "Rush" St-Pierre
by McKinley B. Noble on Dec 28, 2010 2:20 PM EST up reply actions
funny
he beat him once already, and in case you hadn’t noticed the secret to beating Lesnar is out like a gay man on fire island.
"Brock Lesnar's NCAA record 8 years removed is absolutely relevant. Alistair Overeem winning the K-1 World Grand Prix in 2010? A total Non sequitur that isn't worth debate."
Bam!
Said it better than I could.
MMA Fan Since Forrest Griffin vs. Stephan Bonnar
Twitter: @KenTheGreat
MBN's Current 5 Favorite Fighters: Nate Diaz / Chris "The Crippler" Leben / Miesha "Takedown" Tate / Shinya Aoki / Georges "Rush" St-Pierre
by McKinley B. Noble on Dec 28, 2010 3:12 PM EST up reply actions
uh
why would he use ground and pound again?
He’s a better striker than lesnar that’s for sure, and could submit him again.
"Brock Lesnar's NCAA record 8 years removed is absolutely relevant. Alistair Overeem winning the K-1 World Grand Prix in 2010? A total Non sequitur that isn't worth debate."
IMO Brock is a bad match up for MIr. Styles make fights. To beat Brock you have to have either good take down defense or you have to be able to get back to your feet fast. The second part of beating Brock is that you have to beat him on the feet. Without good TDD Frank would need to KO\TKO Lesnar or sub him on the ground. I think Lesnar knows how to position himself to not get subbed easily.
Could Frank beat Brock again? Of course, it’s MMA and they’re not worlds apart. I just think Lesnar’s a bad fight for Frank. Shogun is to Lyoto as Lesnar is to Frank.
It's official. Les Miles DOES NOT have a deal with the devil. He beat him Nov. 6th, 24-21.
You Aint gonna make it to 20-1 Rowdy Rod.
A little over a year ago I posted Zach Arnold’s supposition that Brock Lesnar would ultimately wander away from the UFC just as he has wandered away from every other endeavor he’s pursued in his career.
The response was uniformly negative and dismissive.
Hey, I had ya back nate. Though I was probably banned off here at the time.
Wolfgangsta @ www.ninjasplace.com
Brock Lesnar is who we thought he was
"He embodies this cultural shift that we have and it really started with Dr.Dre selling us NWA and selling us the culture of gangster is cool, Yeah gangster is cool in a way to watch a movie. But being gangster is just being a little kid. And starting a big brawl because, What? I talked some shit to your homie, that is just ghetto and that thing is what embodies what is wrong with america right now" Jason "mayhem" Miller on Nick Diaz
by Blue22AMD on Dec 28, 2010 2:24 PM EST reply actions 4 recs
At the end of the day
Lesnar is not really a fighter…He is a wrestler,nothing other than that.
Getting your face punched in by a proper fighter like Velasquez will soon return you to reality and make you fall out of love with fighting in quick time.
They say a real fighter’s heart is shown in coming back from adversity.
This is the first real adversity Brock has faced (i don’t count getting submitted by Mir as real adversity) and it seems like he doesn’t want to know.
Says a lot about the guy and his standing in the sport,imo.
After all,Manny Pacquiao has earned millions of $’s,yet continues to fight.Having earned good money is no excuse to quit at such an early stage of your career.
by Matt Mosley on Dec 28, 2010 2:55 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
He is not a fighter?
Who the fuck made you the expert on who is a fighter and who isn’t? Link me your fight videos and show me you getting your ass kicked for an entire round and then winning in the second.
by Crazynutts on Dec 28, 2010 3:11 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Pretty much, man.
Luke: What was our best moment?
Nate: When I banned Subo?
Luke: That was a good one.
When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift
Contributor for WatchKalibRun.com
Still Subo at Fightlinker.com
by Derek Suboticki on Dec 28, 2010 3:49 PM EST up reply actions
You can't ever be a fighter
if you have ever dabbled in pro wrestling. That’s just a fact…. oh gawd. I love how people pretend to know everything and everyone. :)
"Turn yourself not away from three best things: Good Thought, Good Word, and Good Deed" - Zoroaster
catch me if you can @ MMA Answers
by SheepleBuster on Dec 28, 2010 4:15 PM EST up reply actions
Not a fighter
It's official. Les Miles DOES NOT have a deal with the devil. He beat him Nov. 6th, 24-21.
You Aint gonna make it to 20-1 Rowdy Rod.
by DayGeaux on Dec 28, 2010 4:18 PM EST up reply actions 3 recs
that does not look like a fighter at all
"Turn yourself not away from three best things: Good Thought, Good Word, and Good Deed" - Zoroaster
catch me if you can @ MMA Answers
by SheepleBuster on Dec 28, 2010 4:23 PM EST up reply actions
Totally Man
What kind of pussy tries to outgrapple the best grappler at 205 with a 20 pound weight disadvantage? Sakuraba suckz
by I Don't Think So Jerome! on Dec 28, 2010 6:01 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
If you touch or even know anything about pro wrestling
you can’t ever be a fighter. That’s how MMA community thinks these days. :)
"Turn yourself not away from three best things: Good Thought, Good Word, and Good Deed" - Zoroaster
catch me if you can @ MMA Answers
by SheepleBuster on Dec 28, 2010 6:14 PM EST up reply actions
I’d say some previous adversity would be his getting cut by the Vikings, and being offered a a chance to prove himself in NFL Europe. They told him he’s not good enough, but maybe one day with some effort he could do it. And…..he quit and went to the ufc
by disinferno06 on Dec 28, 2010 5:20 PM EST up reply actions
Also, DAMN CAIN!
You retire motherfuckers.
"Brock Lesnar's NCAA record 8 years removed is absolutely relevant. Alistair Overeem winning the K-1 World Grand Prix in 2010? A total Non sequitur that isn't worth debate."
by VelociAldo on Dec 28, 2010 2:58 PM EST reply actions 6 recs
Wonder if Cain
could hold the LHW title as well?
"Sometimes I wonder if the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on, or by imbeciles who really mean it."
-Mark Twain
"If I tell you I'm good, you would probably think I'm boasting. If I tell you I'm no good, you know I'm lying..."
-Bruce Lee
"People griping about this matchup need to stop using fight finder as their primary source of MMA information and watch some fights already."
-smoogy2
by The American Ronin on Dec 28, 2010 3:43 PM EST up reply actions
nope.
He’d get destroyed by Rua
"Turn yourself not away from three best things: Good Thought, Good Word, and Good Deed" - Zoroaster
catch me if you can @ MMA Answers
by SheepleBuster on Dec 28, 2010 4:13 PM EST up reply actions
Cute
I love me some Shogun, but there is no way he stuffs Cain’s takedowns or sweeps him…
"Sometimes I wonder if the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on, or by imbeciles who really mean it."
-Mark Twain
"If I tell you I'm good, you would probably think I'm boasting. If I tell you I'm no good, you know I'm lying..."
-Bruce Lee
"People griping about this matchup need to stop using fight finder as their primary source of MMA information and watch some fights already."
-smoogy2
by The American Ronin on Dec 28, 2010 4:31 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
Well
I don’t think Cain can make the weight. haha
"Turn yourself not away from three best things: Good Thought, Good Word, and Good Deed" - Zoroaster
catch me if you can @ MMA Answers
by SheepleBuster on Dec 28, 2010 4:33 PM EST up reply actions
He is fairly soft
and could definitely drop enough between bodyfat and weight cutting to make it.
"Sometimes I wonder if the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on, or by imbeciles who really mean it."
-Mark Twain
"If I tell you I'm good, you would probably think I'm boasting. If I tell you I'm no good, you know I'm lying..."
-Bruce Lee
"People griping about this matchup need to stop using fight finder as their primary source of MMA information and watch some fights already."
-smoogy2
by The American Ronin on Dec 28, 2010 4:34 PM EST up reply actions
just wait to see if he can beat JDS before crowning him as the second
coming of Jesus ;)
"Turn yourself not away from three best things: Good Thought, Good Word, and Good Deed" - Zoroaster
catch me if you can @ MMA Answers
by SheepleBuster on Dec 28, 2010 4:37 PM EST up reply actions
Cain is Mexican (of sorts), so he could be Jesus…
Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try Again. Fail again. Fail better. -Samuel Beckett
Reasoning will never make a man correct an ill opinion, which by reasoning he never acquired. -Jonathan Swift
by Scott C. Broussard on Dec 28, 2010 4:39 PM EST up reply actions
I think we will see soon enough. JDS could have been the long term title holder a couple of years ago, but the well rounded elite MMA Wrestler beats him 9/10 IMO…
"Sometimes I wonder if the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on, or by imbeciles who really mean it."
-Mark Twain
"If I tell you I'm good, you would probably think I'm boasting. If I tell you I'm no good, you know I'm lying..."
-Bruce Lee
"People griping about this matchup need to stop using fight finder as their primary source of MMA information and watch some fights already."
-smoogy2
by The American Ronin on Dec 28, 2010 4:39 PM EST up reply actions
he does have a crushing win over Fedor killer
"Turn yourself not away from three best things: Good Thought, Good Word, and Good Deed" - Zoroaster
catch me if you can @ MMA Answers
by SheepleBuster on Dec 28, 2010 4:40 PM EST up reply actions
That fight is also going to answer a lot of questions. IMO, it’s going to be a one sided beat down with Cain pulling out a late round TKO via GnP.
nah
don’t buy that. it will be a TKO win for JDS. We will see.
"Turn yourself not away from three best things: Good Thought, Good Word, and Good Deed" - Zoroaster
catch me if you can @ MMA Answers
by SheepleBuster on Dec 28, 2010 4:43 PM EST up reply actions
I think it’s going to look a lot like Bader/Nog, except that Cain is better then Bader.
JDS will have 5 chances to hurt Cain badly. IMO, it’s likely JDS will be so worried about getting taken down that he wont be able to put enough stank on his punches to KO/TKO Cain, just like the JDS/Nelson fight.
I think JDS has better take down defense than Nog
and more power. And he I think going by what Kongo did to Cain, he might get his chance. At least one big crack in 5 rounds. He won’t sit and get beat up like Brock. He knows BJJ :)
"Turn yourself not away from three best things: Good Thought, Good Word, and Good Deed" - Zoroaster
catch me if you can @ MMA Answers
by SheepleBuster on Dec 28, 2010 4:52 PM EST up reply actions
Kongo had a bad stance for defending against a wrestler, but a good stance for delivering punches. It’s one of the reasons why Cain took him down at will. I seriously doubt JDS will take such an aggressive stance because it isn’t smart to bet the farm on landing a single punch.
I agree with you about JDS’s power, but I think Nog has better TDD. There is no evidence that JDS has elite level TDD, while Nog actually stuffed several of Bader’s doubles.
No non-wrestler will stuff Cain’s takedowns more than 25% or so of the time…
"Sometimes I wonder if the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on, or by imbeciles who really mean it."
-Mark Twain
"If I tell you I'm good, you would probably think I'm boasting. If I tell you I'm no good, you know I'm lying..."
-Bruce Lee
"People griping about this matchup need to stop using fight finder as their primary source of MMA information and watch some fights already."
-smoogy2
by The American Ronin on Dec 28, 2010 4:59 PM EST up reply actions
to tell you the truth,
I really want to see Cain vs. Carwin. Now that’s going to be fun :)
"Turn yourself not away from three best things: Good Thought, Good Word, and Good Deed" - Zoroaster
catch me if you can @ MMA Answers
by SheepleBuster on Dec 28, 2010 5:01 PM EST up reply actions
Agreed
"Sometimes I wonder if the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on, or by imbeciles who really mean it."
-Mark Twain
"If I tell you I'm good, you would probably think I'm boasting. If I tell you I'm no good, you know I'm lying..."
-Bruce Lee
"People griping about this matchup need to stop using fight finder as their primary source of MMA information and watch some fights already."
-smoogy2
by The American Ronin on Dec 28, 2010 5:03 PM EST up reply actions
though Carwin needs to be in better condition :)
"Turn yourself not away from three best things: Good Thought, Good Word, and Good Deed" - Zoroaster
catch me if you can @ MMA Answers
by SheepleBuster on Dec 28, 2010 5:05 PM EST up reply actions
If Forrest Griffin can make the weight Cain can.
SUPREME'REEM K-1 Champ!
Semper Fi'
Pain don't hurt...
I actually think Jon Bones vs. Cain
could happen sooner than later.
"Turn yourself not away from three best things: Good Thought, Good Word, and Good Deed" - Zoroaster
catch me if you can @ MMA Answers
by SheepleBuster on Dec 28, 2010 5:09 PM EST up reply actions
yup
"Turn yourself not away from three best things: Good Thought, Good Word, and Good Deed" - Zoroaster
catch me if you can @ MMA Answers
by SheepleBuster on Dec 28, 2010 5:12 PM EST up reply actions
Agreed
Just like I though Sonnen would show how Anderson could be beaten by a better MMA Wrestler, even in likely defeat, Rashad will show how Rua is vulnerable to a better MMA Wrestler as well…
"Sometimes I wonder if the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on, or by imbeciles who really mean it."
-Mark Twain
"If I tell you I'm good, you would probably think I'm boasting. If I tell you I'm no good, you know I'm lying..."
-Bruce Lee
"People griping about this matchup need to stop using fight finder as their primary source of MMA information and watch some fights already."
-smoogy2
by The American Ronin on Dec 28, 2010 4:33 PM EST up reply actions
Brock called him and probably
threatened to fire him for underperforming. haha. Wait. That was Greg Nelson
"Turn yourself not away from three best things: Good Thought, Good Word, and Good Deed" - Zoroaster
catch me if you can @ MMA Answers
by SheepleBuster on Dec 28, 2010 4:14 PM EST up reply actions
It wasn't a backpedal at all
I am a subscriber to the show and nothing he said was close to what the “media” reported. It was irresponsible journalism at its best.
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by S.C. Michaelson on Dec 28, 2010 4:20 PM EST up reply actions
I agree
I posted a big portion of what he said above. But there is no question Brock does not seem motivated with all the hunting stuff
"Turn yourself not away from three best things: Good Thought, Good Word, and Good Deed" - Zoroaster
catch me if you can @ MMA Answers
by SheepleBuster on Dec 28, 2010 4:21 PM EST up reply actions
Brock has a 6 month suspension
And he’s a big hunter. He’s not a guy who feels he has to abandon the things he likes for his job. And he can afford to.
Reppin' the NYMMAI.
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by S.C. Michaelson on Dec 28, 2010 4:33 PM EST up reply actions
that's true
but Brock sounded in his video in Canada that he wanted to be a hunter more than actually going back to work. I don’t know. I can’t judge Brock. We will see.
"Turn yourself not away from three best things: Good Thought, Good Word, and Good Deed" - Zoroaster
catch me if you can @ MMA Answers
by SheepleBuster on Dec 28, 2010 4:34 PM EST up reply actions
Time for another fanpost
Reppin' the NYMMAI.
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Follow me on Twitter
Read me at WatchKalibRun . Imma write til the wheels fall off.
by S.C. Michaelson on Dec 28, 2010 4:38 PM EST up reply actions
Mirko was suspended for six months after UFC 115.
Subsequent medical checks not only reduced the ban, but he fought just three months later, which means he was training after six weeks tops.
As would happen with Brock if he wanted it to.
Koscheck has frosted tips.
Brock is out hunting.
He said waaaay before the fight win or lose he was taking time off to hunt.
Why you and other people choose to ignore that I don’t know.
Reppin' the NYMMAI.
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Follow me on Twitter
Read me at WatchKalibRun . Imma write til the wheels fall off.
by S.C. Michaelson on Dec 29, 2010 12:29 AM EST up reply actions
Oh, well if he's hunting, that explains everything.
“Sorry Dana, I won’t be able to take your calls for three months, I’m going wabbit hunting..”
Motivated. Fierce. Competitor.
Koscheck has frosted tips.
there's a lot to sort out here...
let’s play Brock’s advocate for a bit, shall we?
1-how do we know he hasn’t been training at all?
2-maybe he’s taking a vacation until the new year kicks in or the heavyweight landscape clears up a little. it sounds dumb, if you want to stay in shape all year and all, but it’s not entirely impossible.
3-he is a man who obsesses with competition. he left wrestling [among other reasons] because he was stunted in growth and couldn’t really demonstrate what his true athletic potential could be
4-just where the fuck else is he gonna go? is he gonna host a show on HGTV? he hates crowds, keeps to himself, knows he’s a pure athlete and wants to prove it openly. why would he go back to pro wrestling when he can be his own boss in MMA, not travel anywhere near as much, and do what he pleases with more peace of mind? he’s a major PPV draw, and always puts asses in seats wherever he goes.
he might hold out for more money or a modified contract, but i don’t see him leaving anytime soon.
by Victor Rodriguez on Dec 28, 2010 4:23 PM EST reply actions
3-he is a man who obsesses with competition. he left wrestling [among other reasons] because he was stunted in growth and couldn’t really demonstrate what his true athletic potential could be
He left wrestling because he didn’t like the schedule.
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MMA Editor - SBNation.com
by Brent Brookhouse on Dec 28, 2010 4:25 PM EST up reply actions
Most normal people wouldn't
300+ days on the road a year will do that.
"I cover Baltimore, not the state of Maryland. And would rather have my eyes ripped out with a fork than study your state." - Jen Royle
I'm not saying I disagree...
I’m just saying, the stories of him quitting because he wanted real competition are not what actually went on.
Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
MMA Editor - SBNation.com
by Brent Brookhouse on Dec 28, 2010 10:06 PM EST up reply actions
if hope this is true
if brock leaves, good riddance. he made no sense to me from day one. let him go back to fake wrestling and the WWE where that clown belongs
bye bye!!!
Dude doesn’t like getting punched in the face – that’s a completely normal thing. He may have amazing physical gifts that make fighting fun when hes doing the damage but not so much when hes getting pounded on.
He’s got money, he’s got a family, fighting isn’t easy…decision makes sense to me
"You should work for 15 minutes to knock your opponent out, submit him, or improve your position to give yourself the best chance of doing either." - Dan Hardy
The Lesnar backlash is a joke
He’s not a fighter, he’s a joke etc. He got locked in a cage with 6 guys who almost everyone on the planet would do unforgivable things to avoid. Seriously who cares if he was a pro wrestler before—-this coming from someone who is probably the biggest WRASSLIN hater on the planet, it is arguably the stupidest thing intended to entertain adults that has ever been put on in human history—-I would without a doubt collect millions of dollars to take my bad acting in front of fucking [WWE fan bashing redacted by joker24].
EVEN if he did quit the UFC, which he hasn’t—-like you wouldn’t do the same if you were super wealthy already? That he was super wealthy and did take part in 7 professional fights, with as legitimate of competition that anyone with 7 fights has ever faced, necessarily makes him “a fighter” that is more hardass than 99.999% of people. Keep that in perspective.
Not afraid to nitpick
by joker24 on Dec 28, 2010 4:43 PM EST reply actions 2 recs
A-FUCKING-GREED
New England Patriots: We don't rebuild, we reload
by Austin Martin on Dec 28, 2010 5:35 PM EST up reply actions
Maybe Brock just wants that big payday from Wrestlemania
Look, Brock is human and I’m sure the WWE is offering him a ton of money. If anything, Brock could put that money towards his training. This is pure speculation but after this loss, Brock has got to be highly motivated. He has a competitive drive and he won’t quench that thirst in the WWE. Even if he wanted to go make some paydays there, it is doubtful that he would completely turn his back on competition altogether. If he is determined to once again reach the top, we could see some scary things from Lesnar in his upcoming fights. A loss was good for him if anything. He was new to the sport and was still finishing pretty high level competition. Not only that, but he was the champion of mixed martial arts’ biggest promotion in just a few short years. He could have gotten bored as champ. He now has a goal set before him and it’s going to take some serious hard work if he wants to become the ring leader of this division again.
Vince McMahon is desparate
The wife’s senate move didn’t work. Now it’s on to Brock. Heck. Maybe Vince will run for President too.
"Turn yourself not away from three best things: Good Thought, Good Word, and Good Deed" - Zoroaster
catch me if you can @ MMA Answers
by SheepleBuster on Dec 28, 2010 6:15 PM EST up reply actions
Quick question.
The only seemingly hard information in here that’s not speculation is that Brock hasn’t trained a day since his loss two months ago.
Is this anything out of the ordinary? What did he do after his past fights?
If he was right back in the gym the next day each time, there might be something to this story.
If he didn’t, then it’s basically wild guessing.
Does anybody know?
He's not even allowed to train because of the suspension
This is dangerous dangerous speculation, but at least in Kid Nate’s case, he’s presenting it as speculation and not statement of fact.
Reppin' the NYMMAI.
Black Lesnar aka Slap ya Favorite MMA Writer
Follow me on Twitter
Read me at WatchKalibRun . Imma write til the wheels fall off.
by S.C. Michaelson on Dec 28, 2010 7:09 PM EST up reply actions
That's BS.
He’s not allowed full contact. He can train any time he likes.
See Mirko post UFC 115.
Koscheck has frosted tips.
He needs to work on striking defense
That requires contact
Reppin' the NYMMAI.
Black Lesnar aka Slap ya Favorite MMA Writer
Follow me on Twitter
Read me at WatchKalibRun . Imma write til the wheels fall off.
by S.C. Michaelson on Dec 29, 2010 12:29 AM EST up reply actions
For all you Lesnar haters
I have got this to say: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=et18AsYPuwk
"Turn yourself not away from three best things: Good Thought, Good Word, and Good Deed" - Zoroaster
catch me if you can @ MMA Answers
This just makes me a this guy hater.
"The only freakshow's the one in my pants"
-James Toney
by chasethegoose on Dec 28, 2010 7:10 PM EST up reply actions
It was meant to be funny :) haha
"Turn yourself not away from three best things: Good Thought, Good Word, and Good Deed" - Zoroaster
catch me if you can @ MMA Answers
by SheepleBuster on Dec 28, 2010 7:13 PM EST up reply actions
haha
nicely done. I had read some of your posts above and was kind of confused, “this guy doesnt seem like a weird xenophobe/border line skinhead/wacko…”
"The only freakshow's the one in my pants"
-James Toney
yes. That guy was a prowrestler called Demento
His rants are not to be taken seriously. But who knew beating Fedor was so easy. “just punch him in the stomatch”
"Turn yourself not away from three best things: Good Thought, Good Word, and Good Deed" - Zoroaster
catch me if you can @ MMA Answers
by SheepleBuster on Dec 28, 2010 7:42 PM EST up reply actions
ah shit fail,
meant to be a reply to sheeplbuster
"The only freakshow's the one in my pants"
-James Toney
double fail, not my morning.
"The only freakshow's the one in my pants"
-James Toney
by chasethegoose on Dec 28, 2010 7:25 PM EST up reply actions
All the Hate and Shit talking on Brock cracks me up
They guy came in from a wrestling background and WON the heavyweight tittle fair and square in a very small window of time and experience. Is he the best ever, obviously not as has been proven, but he is still top 5 for sure. I will say this though, he is probably the smartest heavyweight out there. Brock will retire comfortably when he wants to, he lives his life how he wants to, and he will never want for cash. This is something a majority of the mma fighters today will never be able to say. Like him or not, he is using this to his advantage and I say good for him.
The big wet dream for everyone but Dana is.......
For Brock and the Undertaker to fight at Wrestlemania and then fight in the UFC at some time in the near future in a legit MMA match, but really, if you have 2 highly rated all time pro wrestlers how much of a fight could you trust between the 2?
The WWE wants this scenario badly. The Undertaker and Brock stand to make A TON of money off the scheme (i’ll call it) and it opens a door for Vince to bridge the gap that the UFC has bridge with his audience, stealing some away for the PPV dollar.
Dana doesn’t want to lose Brock, but there is no way in hell I think he’s let Brock take part in Wrestlemania if he can legally stop him. If Brock gets so pissed he retires, I’m pretty sure 100% that Dana takes that risk. There is too much money on the table, and it’s so easy for him to train and get ready. Even if he isn’t getting better and winning, training is what Brock has done his whole life, it’s natural. So to get such a big payday for something he’s always done is just too easy for him.
He may go to Wrestlemania just so Dana can stay nice with Vince incase they want or need to do business in the future. We know how Vince can be, and he’s a powerful man even though he seems like a big joke. But, there is no way Dana is letting to WWE stars that are focused on Wrestling at the time get in a sanctioned fight in the Octagon. I don’t know if any reasonable commission would allow it. They’d have to do it over seas.
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