Leben vs Koscheck II?
by DCJon. on Dec 23, 2010 5:25 PM EST
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PrintI consider the Chris Leben vs Josh Koscheck rivalry arguably the best rivalry to take place on TUF between two of the shows contestants since it began. It seemed like from almost day 1 there was a dislike between the fraggle-haired All American wrestler/D1 Champ and the experienced red haired psycho. They were pitted against one another after a confrontation at the house (Koscheck and Southworth pouring water on Leben with a hose) which involved Leben punching out a window and taking off one of his knuckles in the process. This fight was anti-climactic to say the least, as it consisted of Koscheck taking Leben down and holding him there for the 2 rounds to earn a Decision victory.
At the beginning of the year this fight made no sense at all, Leben was on a 2 fight losing streak and was at risk of being cut from the UFC (Michael Bisping and Jake Rosholt) while Koscheck was on his way to recovering from his KO loss to Paulo Thiago by racking up a win over Frank Trigg and Anthony Johnson. However with our current situation I feel it would be a great fight at this point in both of these fighter's careers(win or loss against Brian Stann). I do realize Koscheck may not want to fight a heavy-handed brawler in his first fight back from surgery on his orbital bone but I am hoping he will feel confident enough in his recovery to do so. Realistically neither fighter are that close to a title shot in their divisions. Koscheck just lost a very one-sided fight to the WW champ GSP on December 11 and Leben while on a 3 fight win streak(including what many considered a big upset over Yoshihiro Akiyama), is behind a list of 3-4 fighters (Vitor Belfort, Yushin Okami and Chael Sonnen) when it comes to earning a shot at the MW title. Koscheck has been calling out Tito Ortiz so he doesn't seem to have a problem with fighting at either a catch weight or jumping back up to MW (the weight they fought at on TUF) and I am sure Leben would love to avenge that loss. This fight could even be used as a Main Event on a non-PPV event as long as the card is packed with a few other strong and exciting fights. It is known that alot of UFC/MMA fans were generated from watching the first season of TUF, so I am confident this fight would be a big seller due to the past rivalry.
I feel that the fight would be fairly competitive, Koscheck has improved his stand-up alot and has maintained his wrestling abilities while Leben has maintained his heavy-handed, granite chin, zombie mode kind of style but has also shown off a lot of other abilities (such as the triangle on Sexyama). I feel whether this is a match-up of 2 strikers or of a wreslter and a sprawl and brawl fighter it will result in a n exciting fight. Personally I can't really pick a winner and feel this would be a very close fight.
Heres a link to refresh your memory of the rivalry and to see their fight again
http://www.ultimatefighter.com/fighter/chris-leben (Video 2 "Cold Shower")
http://www.ultimatefighter.com/fight-videos/tuf-1-josh-koscheck-chris-leben (I am really impressed by the lay out and accessibility of the Ultimate Fighter website.)
Note: This is my first fanpost so it will be rusty and I would appreciate any criticism you have or tips to improve.
The FanPosts are solely the subjective opinions of Bloody Elbow readers and do not necessarily reflect the views of Bloody Elbow editors or staff.
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Well there’s some obvious bias there.
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by James Brady on Dec 23, 2010 9:16 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
It has nothing to do with bias
I love Danzig and dislike B.J. but I would pick B.J lol. I really don’t think Leben is on the same level as Kos no matter what the weight.
Just saying.
“I dislike Leben. That being said, I don’t think Leben can win.”
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I have to agree that saying you can’t see a way Leben can win is ridiculous, the guy has knocked out like over 10 people in his career. If you can’t admit he has at least a puncher’s chance then you def have a bias against him.
And he also hasn't shown complacaenvy off his back
He subbed Akiyama and was able to stand back up against Simpson.
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Anyone can get knocked out on any given day
I’m not arguing that. I just don’t see Leben doing it to Kos. We will have to agree to disagree on this one
I could see
the fight playing out like the Simpson fight, but I could also see it being like the Rosholt fight. Tough call, for me.
by Mandmeisterx on Dec 24, 2010 11:16 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Why would Kos move up/Leben move down right now? I don’t see either happening. Leben could find Kos’ chin like Thiago did though.
Um did you even read the post? Neither fighter is close to a title shot, both fighters had a huge rivalry on the show, both fighters have greatly improved since the show, Koscheck called out Tito so he obviously is willing to take a fight outside his weight class if it is one thats meaningful to him and Leben would most likely love to avenge that loss plus he is willing to fight anyone and lastly if this gets these guys a main event spot thats more money for them from sponsors.
I think you were taking Kos a little too seriously. Tito is one of the largest LHW’s ever, so there was no way that fight was happening. Also, Leben is as close to a title shot as just about anyone at this point. 2 more wins and he’ll at least be in contention if not in line for a shot.
"I’m anti-stalling, not anti-wrestling." - lowellthehammer
Leben is behind Okami, Vitor and Sonnen like i stated in my post and lets be honest the time it will take for Leben to get a shot even if he is 4th in line is gonna be a long time. If they decide to match him up with Okami or Sonnen, lets be honest there aren’t many people who give him a chance and a loss to one of them puts him right back at the bottom…Leben is a decent fighter, super exciting to watch but he is not an elite MW and unfortunately with people like Marquardt, Maia, Okami, Sonnen etc. it is unlikely he will be able to grab that big win to get his title shot. And Koscheck may talk shit but I would bet you any money if he was given a chance to fight Tito regardless of the weight he would do it.
And 2 wins for Leben gets him in the range of a title shot.
Okami/Sonnen/Vitor will lose eventually, if Chris can keep it rolling he’s in line.
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Pain don't hurt...
I said Chris will have to fight one of these guys to get a title shot and lets be honest these guys just have skils above that of Leben’s. Vitor is a better striker and would beat Leben stand up or on the ground, Marquardt could probably pull out a sub victory if not a UD, Okami has enough striking ability to not get KO’d before taking Leben down to a UD and Sonnen is the same as Okami (Yes Leben triangled Sexy but he hadn’t had a sub victory for 5 years before that). Regardless of how much you like Chris Leben and no matter how excting a fighter he is, the reality is he is not an elite MW and would lose to those fighters who are.
How can you be so sure?
It’s like you can see the future or something.
I never thought Frankie could beat BJ….but he did.
I never thought Serra could KO GSP…..but he did.
Anything can happen….and lets not forget, fighting is fluid. Guys improve, guys regress, it’s not as easy as fighter A beats fighter B 100% of the time.
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Semper Fi'
Pain don't hurt...
Hey if telling youself Leben is going to beat these guys and get a title shot makes you feel better than by all means go ahead. However I am looking at this realisticly and the reality is that taking a fight against Koscheck at this point in Leben’s career makes sense. Of course he could put a run together, he’ll Royce Gracie could come out of retirement and put a run together but the probability of that happening is slim (as is Leben grabbing a win over one of the elite MW’s).
Leben has as good a shot as anyone at making a run at a title shot.
He’s marketable, he’s fun to watch, and he’s impoving with everyfight.
3 in a row, over solid guys. I could see it.
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Semper Fi'
Pain don't hurt...
He also has been in trouble with the police how many times? Face it the UFC will do everything they can to avoid giving Leben a title shot because he is unreliable and just has had to many problems in the past. Leben has stated it himself:
“I was a little bit surprised. Akiyama gets to go fight Bisping, and I get Brian Stann.” – Chris Leben
Also adding the fact he has never held a win over an elite MW I woud say you are completley wrong in your statement that he has a good a chance to put a run together as anyone considering he is not as good a fighter as alot of guys in the MW division
I just have a problem with someone being 100% sure about ANYthing in MMA.
It can happen.
SUPREME'REEM K-1 Champ!
Semper Fi'
Pain don't hurt...
Yes anything can happen, but to say Leben has as good a chance as anyone is not the same as that. The fighters with more skill and less personal issues 100% have a better chance at making a title run than him.
If he beats Stann,
he’ll have 4 in a row. Give him Sonnen or Okami or some other top guy to fight.
He has the KO power to win any fight if he lands.
SUPREME'REEM K-1 Champ!
Semper Fi'
Pain don't hurt...
Once again, I said he does have a chance to put title run together as does any fighter in the UFC but there are alot of ifs and maybes involved with
his possibility. Also beating Brian Stann will not get him Sonnen or Okami and I will sig bet you on that.
I have some vague recollection of them fighting twice, one after Leben got back as a replacement and once before but could be wrong though
Mcloviiiiin!!
This is a good one. I’d also like to see a Koschel/Sanchez rematch. I thought the first one was a let down due to Sanchez’s staph infection. Now that he’s healthy, I think he would come after Koschek with a vengence.
I would love to see this fight again...
It’s intriguing for a number of reason s(history, where they are in their careers, weight; both guys can sell a fight) and would be a natural Spike TV Main event or a PPV Co-Main Event on a non-title card. Personally, I think it would sell very well and it has never made more sense than right now… It could happen.
For some reason I could see alot of TUF rematches from te first few TUF’s because alot of these fightes are becoming gate keepers.
Florian= Chokes in title fights
Forrest= Hasn’t fought in forever and I don’t see him putting together another title runwith as deep a division as LHW (Yeah I know he beat Shogun but ths is not the same Shogun at all)
Bonnar= I feel its pretty obvious and self explanatory, you lose to a 45 year old Mark Coleman you are done big competitive.
Swick= Lost his last 2 fights and really has never beaten any top fighters, his best wins are over Joe Riggs and Marcus Davis.
Stevenson= Doesn’t look to be making a title run any time soon.
Sanchez= I am still holding judgement on this one as he did do good against Paulo Thiago so well see how the move back to WW treats him.
Ill stop here as I feel my points been proven but i think we can all agree you can make a pretty big list of fighters that arent gonna be putting title runs together anytime soon and are in the perfect position for some rematches or fights that never happened that hold emotional ties to the fighters and fans
Correct me if I'm wrong,
but Stevenson want from this season, correct?
by Mandmeisterx on Dec 24, 2010 11:14 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
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