Is Duke Roufus Single-Handedly Advancing MMA Striking?
Duke Roufus might be the most innovative striking coach in mixed martial arts today. He may also be the most underrated. Either way, he's embracing and refashioning an idea that jiu-jitsu players and many wrestlers already knew: the cage in MMA can be used offensively to enhance or adapt existing technique. The difference for Roufus? He's using it for strikers.
Under the tutelage of Duke Roufus, strikers are beginning to integrate the cage into their technical arsenal. Without talking to Roufus (I've been trying to make contact, so if you're reading this please get back to me, Duke), it's hard to know the exact origin, but we have two kicks to consider.
First, Alan Belcher used his back foot to propel himself off of the cage directly into a superman punch that landed with authority on the face of Yoshihiro Akiyama at UFC 100. Without use of the cage a fighter can still generate significant force, but using the cage adds velocity, speed, elevation and for now, the element of surprise.
Then there's Anthony Pettis, another Duke Roufus-trained fighter. We all were witnesses to one of the most thrilling and awe-inspiring techniques ever used in a MMA fight. I don't fully understand the set up, but it appears as Henderson moves laterally against the fence, the kick is used to achieve elevation, create an angle on the moving opposition and for now, employ the element of surprise. If you're never expecting it and you've never seen it, it's awfully hard to prepare. Note Henderson's hands were completely down when the kick landed.
It's not clear whether or not strikers will be able to take advantage of the cage as much as wrestlers. While Roufus' tactics clearly can work, they're also being brought to life by superb athletes who naturally gravitate to striking. it's not clear a Randy Couture or Demian Maia would ever need or be able to make as much use of it as a standard guard pass or double jab to uppercut combination. For now it's what I call a luxury technique: nice to have, flashy to look at, definitely effective, but out of reach for most and not necessary to own.
Still, Roufus is helping to push MMA striking in a direction all it's own. He's not only making up ground on wrestlers who've used the cage as a weapon and adapted their wrestling techniques for the last ten years. He's also underscoring just how different MMA striking can be from actual kickboxing, MMA striking's combat sports cousin.
Roufus understands this isn't K-1. The rules of MMA and the reality of the cage are helping to evolve a system of striking that is much more than kickboxing + takedown defense. And it when it comes to being innovative by taking advantage of available resources, Roufus appears to be doing and succeeding at something no other coach in MMA has even considered.
170 comments
|
6 recs |
Do you like this story?
Comments
Is Duke Roufus Single-Handedly Advancing MMA Striking?
No.
/End Thread
"I don't worry much about losing. What's so bad about losing? I'll fight again, I'll still get paid and hot chicks will still have sex with me for no good reason."
by JaYB84 on Dec 18, 2010 2:13 PM EST reply actions 8 recs
Come on...
Using the cage to push off on a strike? Rufus taught me that in kindergarten. Pettis rocks and, of course, without Rufus, he wouldn’t have done that! I’m a Rufus fan and agree he’s underrated… but the Steve Jobs of MMA? Come on…
The Steve Jobs of MMA?
Is he producing very stylish yet completely overpriced and functionally limited fighters?
No. He’s pushing the boundaries of the traditional range of striking.
He’s the IBM of MMA.
by Terminhater on Dec 18, 2010 2:42 PM EST up reply actions 3 recs
The 90s just called ...
.. they want their debate back.
Well, anybody who knows me knows I'm no fan of dictionaries or reference books. They're elitist. Constantly telling us what is or isn't true. Or what did or didn't happen.
by MarcoDos on Dec 18, 2010 4:55 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
The 80s called...
…and is angry you are confusing decades.
by bigstupidsmile on Dec 18, 2010 5:41 PM EST up reply actions 3 recs
The 90s had a debate about Duke Roufus' computing equivalent?
I must have missed that.
I wasn’t really part of the time travelling MMA fan scene though.
you are saying IBM
like they are actually a good company. I am sure you are aware of their history, correct?
"Turn yourself not away from three best things: Good Thought, Good Word, and Good Deed" - Zoroaster
catch me if you can @ MMA Answers
by SheepleBuster on Dec 18, 2010 9:13 PM EST up reply actions
I have to agree. It could easily be argued that Pettis’ and Belcher’s moves were nothing more than stunts.
Examples of guys who truly advanced modern fighting technique:
1) Royce Gracie – showed people you better learn how to fight on the ground.
2) Mark Coleman – demonstrated the true power of ground & pound
3) Maurice Smith – one of first guys to mix striking and ground-fighting abilities
I agree
It’s Steven Seagal. Here is my proof:
“forget about all that wrestling stuff”
"Turn yourself not away from three best things: Good Thought, Good Word, and Good Deed" - Zoroaster
catch me if you can @ MMA Answers
by SheepleBuster on Dec 18, 2010 4:09 PM EST up reply actions
Hahaha
"I'm gonna go after number one, whoever it is. If it's Anderson, or I gotta go up after the guys at 205, or go on a diet and go after Jose Aldo-- it doesn't matter." -Chael Sonnen
by Charles Awad on Dec 18, 2010 4:13 PM EST up reply actions
Pettis more or less said they practised it as a joke
It certainly didn’t sound like anyone thought this was a revolution in striking concepts
indeed MMA is constantly evolving,
I’d like to think that in 5 years time a fighter will pull off a move like Pettis and whilst the audience will be impressed, they won’t be surprised.
Whilst this comment may be true
it is, indeed, pretentiously delivered.
by trainyourmind on Dec 18, 2010 2:42 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
pretentious is often misused. the comment was haughty.
a life: it's the shit that happens while you're waiting for moments that never come -Lester Freamon
by eastcoastatlas on Dec 18, 2010 6:22 PM EST up reply actions
It was lucky, cool, and awesome
but no. Something tells me you won’t hear anyone saying “well I’m looking to land a fence-walking kick”
Duke is teaching them some good things there are a lot of successful fighters in his camp, but imo using the cage to do stuff like that isn’t some new school revolution. He’s just a great coach.
I think for every Pettis, Cung Le, or Jon Jones who enjoys experimenting with strikes, we’re going to find many more GSPs who prefer solid, crisp strikes that work with minimal risk. We’ll probably going to start finding better boxing technique arise before we see Matrix martial arts.
Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try Again. Fail again. Fail better. -Samuel Beckett
Reasoning will never make a man correct an ill opinion, which by reasoning he never acquired. -Jonathan Swift
by Scott C. Broussard on Dec 18, 2010 2:24 PM EST reply actions 3 recs
We’ll probably going to start finding better boxing technique arise before we see Matrix martial arts.
This. Better boxing and better kick boxing before you see anything like Pettis’ flash being common place.
Right...
…and show me where in the piece I argue anything differently. That’s got nothing to do with the central thesis.
Follow me on Twitter: @MMANation.
So is what you’re saying that these techniques will become more common, but not necessarily commonplace?
Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try Again. Fail again. Fail better. -Samuel Beckett
Reasoning will never make a man correct an ill opinion, which by reasoning he never acquired. -Jonathan Swift
by Scott C. Broussard on Dec 18, 2010 2:53 PM EST up reply actions
They won't replace strong fundamentals
but with the right training, they can successfully, sparingly, be used in addition to them.
An example being EXACTLY what Pettis did: strong striking all the way through the fight, and then when the opportunity presented itself, he was able to unleash this move successfully.
I'm glad most of you don't agree
Because you’re all going to be eating crow in a few years when it’s a much more common practice.
Follow me on Twitter: @MMANation.
by Luke Thomas on Dec 18, 2010 2:28 PM EST reply actions 5 recs
I hope you're right.
What makes you so certain, though?
Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try Again. Fail again. Fail better. -Samuel Beckett
Reasoning will never make a man correct an ill opinion, which by reasoning he never acquired. -Jonathan Swift
by Scott C. Broussard on Dec 18, 2010 2:30 PM EST up reply actions
The payoff is too high
The moves work too well when pulled off correctly, and they impact on the audience is too strong; they will become more commonplace.
not if frankie edgar and cruz have anything to say about it.
"Even Hulkamania wouldn't get you out of this hold"
"True strength is not always shown through victory. Stand up, try again and display strength of heart."
by the-gentle-way on Dec 18, 2010 2:48 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
machida has footwork, he goes for the kill.
Those dudes…… do not. Saddens me deeply.
"Even Hulkamania wouldn't get you out of this hold"
"True strength is not always shown through victory. Stand up, try again and display strength of heart."
by the-gentle-way on Dec 18, 2010 3:49 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
I don't know
I think that Cruz is a Diaz-type striker… constantly pressuring and gradually chipping away. It’s possible that with his length, being at his size prevents him from having the type of power he’d need to finish guys. But I’m not as much of a finish-whore as some people, so I truly enjoy what he does. I mean, that volume of strikes is truly stunning, finish or not. Edgar, on the other hand, may be a bit tentative— something you can’t accuse Cruz of.
"I'm gonna go after number one, whoever it is. If it's Anderson, or I gotta go up after the guys at 205, or go on a diet and go after Jose Aldo-- it doesn't matter." -Chael Sonnen
by Charles Awad on Dec 18, 2010 3:51 PM EST up reply actions
"Those dudes" have outstanding footwork.
I don’t know what fights you’ve been watching.
SUPREME'REEM K-1 Champ!
Semper Fi'
Pain don't hurt...
i know they do
I was referencing their opposition to throwing hard strikes. Not their stellar foot work.
"Even Hulkamania wouldn't get you out of this hold"
"True strength is not always shown through victory. Stand up, try again and display strength of heart."
by the-gentle-way on Dec 18, 2010 10:56 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
The payoff is high
but it’s also high risk. I mean, just ask Faber how his flying elbow turned out on Brown in their first fight. Don’t get me wrong, I would love to see this stuff be more commonplace. My favorite fighters are guys that are willing to experiment and take risks. But I think there is so much emphasis on winning, especially in the UFC, that this kind of stuff won’t happen as much as people hope. At least not with the champs.
Faber improvised that elbow
Pettis practiced that kick. If Faber had run through it in practice, I’m sure he would have realized he needed to cover his chin with his other hand. Pettis knew exactly how to use that kick, time that kick, and protect himself while throwing it; it didn’t seem that risky to me.
I’m not saying that any one fighter will make this the basis for their entire style, but practicing one or two moves like this and using them wisely should become more common in the future.
See my longer post below
Two guys from the same camp pulled it off successfully in two different UFC (WEC) fights
Clearly something is working.
David Loiseau’s spinning back kick on Charles McCarthy alerted everyone that tae kwon do can work in MMA with the right practitioner. Now Dennis Siver is hitting them in fights.
The point is that MMA fans have a total poverty of imagination. Techniques in MMA almost always come about organically and by experimenters. Roufus is the first to really take advantage of the special spatial elements of the MMA fighting environment.
Is it still early in development? Yes. Is it ever going to replace a good jab? Highly doubtful. But is it something of an innovative breakthrough? How can you argue otherwise? Pettis didn’t pull that off on the fly and it wasn’t his idea. That was a practiced idea from a coach who though through the issue. Who knows what else they can do?
The very idea NHB would turn into MMA and that fighters would have to master multiple disciplines or that disciplines would mix to become admixtures of each other was an idea the Gracies never considered. NO ONE considered it, but as early adopters and innovators tried their ideas, things changed.
This sport is so young. How can you argue against what is possible when it’s already happening? We don’t even have the best athletes we are ever going to have. This is only the beginning.
Failing to unerstand the organic evolution of MMA is where all of Bert Sugar’s arguments fall apart. When he calls it a “franken-sport” he’s arguably MMA is something of a gimmick like Slam Ball or Xtreme Armwrestling. He’s not recognizing the unique history of MMA and how slowly but surely components were added to MMA through a natural organic process that ultimately fused together in the form we see today. It’s not an unnatural trick made up by producers of a TV show; it’s a sport that’s been shaped by the athletes and minds of the participants who helped push the process along.
Think about the long arc of where history can take us and recognize this achievement for what it is. I don’t think it’s anything short of a spatial breakthrough for strikers.
Follow me on Twitter: @MMANation.
by Luke Thomas on Dec 18, 2010 3:03 PM EST up reply actions 25 recs
...and you've convinced me.
Rec’d. I, for one, welcome our new cage-flying overlords.
Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try Again. Fail again. Fail better. -Samuel Beckett
Reasoning will never make a man correct an ill opinion, which by reasoning he never acquired. -Jonathan Swift
by Scott C. Broussard on Dec 18, 2010 3:08 PM EST up reply actions 5 recs
Okay, so clearly I missed something the first time
because that explanation makes a hell of a lot more sense to me.
I think you might be playing down the relatively unique gifts of Anthony Pettis, who has landed several different kicks in his last few fights that nobody else has pulled off in a televised MMA fight. I don’t expect many to replicate his feats in the future, mostly because there aren’t many who already possess the kickboxing base he does, let alone the imagination or the young legs.
The real way Duke Roufus is advancing striking in MMA, in my opinion, is how his students elevate the level of competition with their sound kickboxing technique. Pettis and Belcher succeed standing because they’re superior on a fundamental level to their opposition. In North America at least, Roufus is one of the top dogs.
Flashy moves like that sound pretty pro-wrestling to me.
UFC Win Finish %: Belfort (100), Penn (92), Florian (91), Velasquez (86), Anderson (83), JDS (83), Mir (83), Franklin (77), Kongo (75), Leben (73), Hughes (72), Sotiropoulos (71), Alves (70), Couture (69), Marquardt (67), Lytle (67), Maia (63), Koscheck (62), Bisping (60), Rampage (50), Kampmann (50), J. Miller (50), GSP (47), Sanchez (45), Okami (40), Evans (40), Forrest (38), Machida (38), Fitch (31), Sherk (25), Edgar (25), Maynard (13) [Top 15 with 6 UFC wins]
by MMAInFeRioRiTy on Dec 18, 2010 2:48 PM EST up reply actions
Just give it time
my friend.
Best Fighters: 1.Brock Lesnar 2.Nate Diaz 3.Tito Ortiz 4.Tank Abbot 5.Jamie Varner
Best Camps: 1.Team Punishment 2.Death Clutch 3.Cesar Gracie
Dana White is the MAN!!! He should fire more wrestlers!
I'm Don Frye and you're not - Don Frye
by MrTechnique420 on Dec 18, 2010 4:36 PM EST up reply actions
I am skeptical.
I think moves like what Pettis did was more a tribute to Pettis’ atheticism and skill. I think you’re always going to find guys like that who are willing to do high risk, big reward moves. But there is a reason why stuff like good head movement, good footwork, etc. are mainstays of striking; it’s because they work and even journeymen can learn them. Sure, some are better than others at it, but it works. Stuff like pushing off a cage, jumping off a cage, etc. isn’t something you’re going to be seeing a lot of fighters doing.
It’s not just the flashy moves though… he’s doing alot with smaller less flashy techniques. Distance, how to ftriking while being struck (this is virtually non-existant in mma), when and how to take a punch in order to give one, etc…
Right now the biggest innovations will come from the striking realm biggest the BJJ gaps have been closing since day one and then the wrestling gaps started to close and are still closing and now recently we’re seeing the biggest innovations in striking in MMA.
Duke’s boys, Dominick Cruz, Edgar, Anderson Silva, Machida, etc…
Right now the evolution as whole in MMA is fast but once all the best practices are discovered fine tuned etc… then it will continue to evolve but at a much slower pace.
Is Duke Roufus Single-Handedly Advancing MMA Striking?
Nope.
He is using both hands, both feet and the cage.
"Even Hulkamania wouldn't get you out of this hold"
"True strength is not always shown through victory. Stand up, try again and display strength of heart."
by the-gentle-way on Dec 18, 2010 2:33 PM EST via mobile reply actions 3 recs
Come on guys
Please add something to the conversation, instead of flippantly remarking how people have been punching and kicking since the beginning of time. This is worth having an intelligent conversation about.
"I'm gonna go after number one, whoever it is. If it's Anderson, or I gotta go up after the guys at 205, or go on a diet and go after Jose Aldo-- it doesn't matter." -Chael Sonnen
by Charles Awad on Dec 18, 2010 2:35 PM EST up reply actions
um that was a pun
He’s not doing it “single handedly” he is using all his Appendages plus the cage.
"Even Hulkamania wouldn't get you out of this hold"
"True strength is not always shown through victory. Stand up, try again and display strength of heart."
by the-gentle-way on Dec 18, 2010 2:47 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
OHHHHHHHHHH
Well done. There are plenty of comments above not adding anything to the narrative.
"I'm gonna go after number one, whoever it is. If it's Anderson, or I gotta go up after the guys at 205, or go on a diet and go after Jose Aldo-- it doesn't matter." -Chael Sonnen
by Charles Awad on Dec 18, 2010 2:50 PM EST up reply actions
So would oyu say Roach single-handedly advanced striking based on the GSP/Koscheck fight?
jab, jab, jabjab, left hook, jab…
Just joking
I wish he would have opened up a little more in the 5th, but I have no problem with that fight, I loved it
i would have....
But I fell asleep in the first round of that fight.
"Even Hulkamania wouldn't get you out of this hold"
"True strength is not always shown through victory. Stand up, try again and display strength of heart."
by the-gentle-way on Dec 18, 2010 3:25 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Really?
Why do you watch MMA, then?
/sarcasm
"All the time he's boxing, he's thinking. All the time he was thinking, I was hitting him." - Jack Dempsey
by Drunken cutman on Dec 18, 2010 4:21 PM EST up reply actions
Strange, since you proclaimed to love Machida and his fights. He’s nothing if not deliberate.
by Hardcharger on Dec 18, 2010 6:32 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
i was being a dick.
I just wish gsp would have let loose on some Left high kicks. But overall it was technical brilliance. I watched all 5 rounds. It should have been stopped in the 4th, but since Josh is ok I am glad he got to finish.
"Even Hulkamania wouldn't get you out of this hold"
"True strength is not always shown through victory. Stand up, try again and display strength of heart."
by the-gentle-way on Dec 18, 2010 11:06 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Actually, in MMA,
I can’t recall anyone working the jab that effectively before, although maybe its just me…
"Sometimes I wonder if the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on, or by imbeciles who really mean it."
-Mark Twain
"If I tell you I'm good, you would probably think I'm boasting. If I tell you I'm no good, you know I'm lying..."
-Bruce Lee
by The American Ronin on Dec 20, 2010 11:08 AM EST up reply actions
Watch Penn vs Sherk
Penn’s jab is very effective, and sets up his huge KO finish.
"All the time he's boxing, he's thinking. All the time he was thinking, I was hitting him." - Jack Dempsey
by Drunken cutman on Dec 20, 2010 4:55 PM EST up reply actions
I can't disagree
Duke Roufus’ camp is on the rise. In the last two years, his gym and its fighters have skyrocketed into the public eye of the MMA scene. I remember when his most talked about fighter was Eric Shafer.
People passing this off as a novelty haven’t been paying attention. Another striking tactic that Roufus imparts to his fighters— that is unique to them as a consistent tactic within their camp— is the straight to high kick combination. You’ve seen guys like Matt Mitrione both attempt and successfully employ this tactic, one which is (oddly) rarely seen in MMA.
I don’t think we’ve seen all he has to offer, either. Duke obviously have a lot of crazy ideas in that mind of his and I’m always geeked to see one of his fighters perform.
"I'm gonna go after number one, whoever it is. If it's Anderson, or I gotta go up after the guys at 205, or go on a diet and go after Jose Aldo-- it doesn't matter." -Chael Sonnen
Yeah people are acting like Dukes approach only involves flying off the cage. Just the way they use kicks is totally different from anything out there
by RoB_ex on Dec 18, 2010 2:48 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
I LOVE watching Zaromskis Straight right to High Kick.
Been teaching my wife that one.
"It is hard to free fools from the chains they revere."
That's one guy that immediately comes to mind outside of Roufus
But it’s totally unheard of to see consistently from any other camp.
"I'm gonna go after number one, whoever it is. If it's Anderson, or I gotta go up after the guys at 205, or go on a diet and go after Jose Aldo-- it doesn't matter." -Chael Sonnen
by Charles Awad on Dec 18, 2010 3:22 PM EST up reply actions
Also, rec/like and that image is so horrific, it's awesome
"I'm gonna go after number one, whoever it is. If it's Anderson, or I gotta go up after the guys at 205, or go on a diet and go after Jose Aldo-- it doesn't matter." -Chael Sonnen
Yeah
And he should probably escape that room before he catches fire.
"I'm gonna go after number one, whoever it is. If it's Anderson, or I gotta go up after the guys at 205, or go on a diet and go after Jose Aldo-- it doesn't matter." -Chael Sonnen
by Charles Awad on Dec 18, 2010 2:51 PM EST up reply actions
The off the cage Superman Punch never got enough props, in my eyes.
But you know what was even more impressive than the punch?
The Sexy Smile that it produced.
“Sexyama laughs at your pathetic attempts at striking innovation! Laughs I say!”
"It is hard to free fools from the chains they revere."
by Shotokanman on Dec 18, 2010 2:51 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
this is pure instinct
in 10 years people will fight just like they are now.
Yea, just like they are fighting today exactly like they did 10 years ago.
by Phildo on Dec 18, 2010 3:37 PM EST up reply actions 6 recs
Instinct...
When Brock gets hit, it’s his instinct to run and turtle up.
Instinct compliments excellent technique and execution and will only get you so far, technique development and continuous evolution of the fight game is what makes a great fighter.
by ultima0chaotic on Dec 19, 2010 11:51 AM EST up reply actions
Two people being recorded doing something
Is not anecdotal.
"All the time he's boxing, he's thinking. All the time he was thinking, I was hitting him." - Jack Dempsey
by Drunken cutman on Dec 18, 2010 4:23 PM EST up reply actions
Yes...
"All the time he's boxing, he's thinking. All the time he was thinking, I was hitting him." - Jack Dempsey
by Drunken cutman on Dec 18, 2010 4:24 PM EST up reply actions
Just putting this conversation in historical context
possibly prehistorical.
"I'll rock your body with big nasty hooks!"
Why?
"All the time he's boxing, he's thinking. All the time he was thinking, I was hitting him." - Jack Dempsey
by Drunken cutman on Dec 18, 2010 6:12 PM EST up reply actions
Yay
"All the time he's boxing, he's thinking. All the time he was thinking, I was hitting him." - Jack Dempsey
by Drunken cutman on Dec 18, 2010 6:54 PM EST up reply actions
I'm fairly new to MMA...
…a fan for just over a year. I was in the house for WEC 53…my first-ever live event. And that kicked turned a really awesome night into something epic! I have a hard time explaining to people what I love about MMA (I’m 50 and have never been into sports). But what I really enjoy is watching a person giving their all, doing their best, and then pushing the envelope! I don’t know enough about MMA to know if you’re right, Luke. But what I do know is that excellence is a thing to be admired, no matter what the profession. Which is also why I like Bloody Elbow!
by Aunt_Judie on Dec 18, 2010 3:06 PM EST reply actions 2 recs
It was great meeting you after the fights
It’s Matt from Austin by the way.
Follow me on twitter @thisredengine
Also please check out SBnation's Red Bulls blog @ www.onceametro.com
by Matthew Roth on Dec 18, 2010 3:08 PM EST up reply actions
You too!
Don’t forget to follow me on Twitter, dude. I spew wisdom and unsolicited advice on a semi-regular basis. Worth every penny! ;-)
Hey look, someone who can actually add something to the conversation instead of just saying “Luke, you’re wrong, because I said so”.
Hey UFC4 go fuck yourself, how about that? Fucking punk, I was just asking for the source that says lesnar gets 5 mill a fight, it’s obvious one does not exist. Bunch of gabronis on a site pulling figures out of your ass.
by Garrett Bennicas
by ufc4 on Dec 18, 2010 5:13 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
The guys who train at Roufusport MMA are super creative
It’s not just Pettis and Belcher. I think the creativity will help the striking aspect of the sport grow but only at the lighter weight classes. I think it gets scaled down with LHW and HW fighters but it’s scary to think what could happen with a BW or FW who is equally as athletic as a guy like Anthony Pettis. The Belcher superman punch was impressive but I think that’s as crazy as it gets for heavier fighters.
It’s super flashy though and when it is successful you pull off the move of the year. Kind like how Rumina Sato was with his flying Armbars and Triangles and Nick Diaz was when he did the gogoplata on Gomi.
Follow me on twitter @thisredengine
Also please check out SBnation's Red Bulls blog @ www.onceametro.com
risk/reward
Pettis and his striking/capoeira background along w/ his natural athletic ability reduces risk and increases reward possibility exponentially.
the other aspect of this is weight class. flyweights do crazy shit like this in smaller shows a great deal more. i have no proof but i’d venture to guess that statistically speaking the ratio of crazy ass dynamic striking goes down as weight classes go up.
The negative responses are kind of surprising.
The thought of MMA striking creativity staying at the level that it is today is absurd. ABSOLUTELY ABSURD.
Walking the line between intelligence and ignorance since 1985
@deowade
Unintelligent Defense, K-1 Level Typing
Couldn’t agree more
Go get that bread, Kimbo Slice. - Mike Fagan
by SouthAlaBamaRampage on Dec 18, 2010 3:09 PM EST up reply actions
Any deviation from traditions produces backlash
The old blues guys HATED Hendrix, and the electrical engineers couldn’t believe that these kids actually wanted to design their circuits to distort.
Don’t worry, they’ll come around.
agreed
a 20 year old “sport” w/ a few thousand years of martial arts philosophies, techniques and practices behind it has no choice but to evolve by reaching back into history and pulling out tactics and technique that will work best. 3 years ago we started to really pay attention to Karate w/ help from Machida. a few years before that it was Karo and Judo. it’s not just Kickboxing/Muay Thai, wrestling, BJJ any more.
by F'n Clownshoes on Dec 18, 2010 3:20 PM EST up reply actions
I may be one of the few that agree, think about the way MMA is evolving and the more the athletes are evolving. With the infllux of these great athletes, these tactics will become a much more common practice.
Go get that bread, Kimbo Slice. - Mike Fagan
by SouthAlaBamaRampage on Dec 18, 2010 3:09 PM EST reply actions
In order for any system to advance, you need two kinds of thinkers.
The first is the traditionalist. You need people who have years of experience and a strong understanding of what does and does not work in any given situation as is proven by history. You need someone who knows how to properly use a jab. You need someone to teach you how to slip a cross. These techniques have been used for years, and any fighter hoping to make a dent in the sport needs to have these fundamentals down before branching out. Even the most progressive musicians still run their scales every day, it’s simply a matter of knowing the rules so that you know how to break them. A perfect example is GSP’s superman jab. It’s a weird move, but it’s very effective. The important thing to remember though is that it’s effective because Georges knows how to use a regular jab so effectively. He understands the use of the jab and the timing of the jab, and he understands how the superman differs from the regular jab in these instances. As a result, he knows exactly when and how to use this unusual punch, and it pays off in spades.
The second type of thinker is the free spirited "f-the-rules-man" guys; they provide the requisite chaos that any system requires in order to grow. These people are often looked down on, because the type of personality that produces this attitude often leads to a very irreverent outlook, as well as a lack of "professional" demeanor. These guys will show up and not give the fundamentals the respect that other people think they deserve in favor of branching out and exploring new ideas. As a result, they often have marginal success, using their new techniques to surprise the world, but often falling short when compared to a person with strong fundamentals. Their inability to reach the top of their game is often used as justification for their dismissal. This is wrong.
The growth of the system hinges on the union of these two schools of thought. Eventually, the students of the by-the-books teachers will learn how to incorporate these new techniques while maintaining their strong fundamentals, providing the growth that the art needs. Pettis (and Duke) is a perfect example of this. He didn’t walk in thinking that he was going to be new and original and flashy; those guys get beaten by the guys with strong fundamentals. Instead, he came in with a STRONG traditional striking game, and used it to great effect. Then, due to his open mindedness, he was able to successfully incorporate a novel technique when the opportunity presented itself.
So yes, while people have been punching and kicking for years, and yes, guys like Roach and Tomkins are excellent at REFINING techniques, Duke is introducing the necessary chaos in order to let the system grow and advance.
by Shaun32887 on Dec 18, 2010 3:12 PM EST reply actions 22 recs
THIS
Walking the line between intelligence and ignorance since 1985
@deowade
Unintelligent Defense, K-1 Level Typing
Agreed 100%
Even the most progressive musicians still run their scales every day, it’s simply a matter of knowing the rules so that you know how to break them. A perfect example is GSP’s superman jab. It’s a weird move, but it’s very effective.
-this made me think of Sakuraba giving up his back.
Not familair with it
I’m kind of a new MMA fan, wasn’t around for Pride, though I’ve made it a point to learn as much as I could about it.
I do remember Faber saying that he practices giving up his back in training, because it creates scrambles that he’s confident in, so it gets him out of certain situations. Is this similar to what Sakuraba did?
Just another example
If you break a Gracie’s arm, he probably won’t give a fuck.
Gracie: Oh, is my arm broken? Good fight.
"I'll rock your body with big nasty hooks!"
by TheFilt on Dec 18, 2010 4:57 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I remember one of them saying that letting their arm get broken was one of their proudest moments
Hard to tap out that kind of mentality
Renzo is soft
He just hides behind this ’I’m a tough guy shell’ and does things like let people break his arms to prove it. Not fooling me with the charade, Renzo.
"I'll rock your body with big nasty hooks!"
by TheFilt on Dec 18, 2010 5:21 PM EST up reply actions 4 recs
Wow, what a great post! Awesome summary, totally agree. Rec’d
by Horselover Fat on Dec 18, 2010 3:32 PM EST up reply actions
Great stuff
Nice to see people adding something to the conversation. Needless to say, I am more excited than ever to see Mitrione/Hague and Barry/Beltran.
"I'm gonna go after number one, whoever it is. If it's Anderson, or I gotta go up after the guys at 205, or go on a diet and go after Jose Aldo-- it doesn't matter." -Chael Sonnen
by Charles Awad on Dec 18, 2010 3:44 PM EST up reply actions
Thanks
A good example of the creative thinker is Eddie Bravo. He may only be one half of the equation, but he’s solid in his niche.
exactly
Bravo is more on the chaos side than Roufus but you can’t deny his ideas have had a positive impact on the sport and some of his techniques have become standard. Will they stand the test of time? Who knows. But Bravo has added a lot to the sport.
Follow me on Twitter @KidNate
do you watch No Reservations?
Bourdain said something similar to this about the food industry.
awesome post man, wish i could rec it more than once.
:)
I think he may be referring to the episode about new vs old French cuisine
Where they were basically taking turns insulting Eric Ripert. Haha
"I'm gonna go after number one, whoever it is. If it's Anderson, or I gotta go up after the guys at 205, or go on a diet and go after Jose Aldo-- it doesn't matter." -Chael Sonnen
by Charles Awad on Dec 18, 2010 4:09 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I'll check it out
and that supports my claim that this system of growth occurs in almost every art form, god I love it.
Indeed
It takes a lot of balls to do anything out of the ordinary in every art form. Too much standing still for my taste, but we are culturally conditioned to reject what we don’t understand. A stigma that pains me every day in my business.
"I'm gonna go after number one, whoever it is. If it's Anderson, or I gotta go up after the guys at 205, or go on a diet and go after Jose Aldo-- it doesn't matter." -Chael Sonnen
by Charles Awad on Dec 18, 2010 4:15 PM EST up reply actions
Don't watch No Reservations
But I love top chef. Anywho, there was an episode with Bordain and Ripert as guest judges and Bordain spent the entire episode insulting him. Is there a reason why he hates him?
by RoB_ex on Dec 18, 2010 4:34 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Haha
They’re good friends, actually. It was merely that the context of the episode didn’t favor Ripert’s point of view. Long story short, French cuisine is trending away from classic dining, which a world-class chef like Ripert— who has made his living on classic French establishments like 10 Arts— has trouble coming to terms with. Bourdain is much more a free spirit, so he had a good time with it.
"I'm gonna go after number one, whoever it is. If it's Anderson, or I gotta go up after the guys at 205, or go on a diet and go after Jose Aldo-- it doesn't matter." -Chael Sonnen
by Charles Awad on Dec 18, 2010 4:41 PM EST up reply actions
Yeah
That’s one of the biggest reasons I like Bourdain; he’s the right mix of respect for old tried and true ways, while still open minded enough to honestly get excited about new things.
"Bordain spent the entire episode insulting him."
That’s summed up Anthony Bourdain and his show in on sentence.
Its awesome.
"I'll rock your body with big nasty hooks!"
Top Chef talk on Bloody Elbow
I guess I’m not the only person who likes Top Chef and MMA. Who would have ever known.
Elia Aboumrad
Is gorgeous. Stopped watching this season when they kicked her off.
Walking the line between intelligence and ignorance since 1985
@deowade
Unintelligent Defense, K-1 Level Typing
Really?
Am I missing something? Maybe her shaving her head back then ruined her for me.
Casey always seemed like the hot one to me. Followed by Jenn. Her in a Bikini in the Vegas season…yes pleasee. Although her voice is a bit off putting.
I'm a sucker for a woman with an Olive Skin Tone and Dark Curly Hair
And I agree about Casey. Lawd have mercy.
Walking the line between intelligence and ignorance since 1985
@deowade
Unintelligent Defense, K-1 Level Typing
Great post. I used to break dance, and I have seen that type of evolution in break dancing as well. There were/are traditionalists, and there are those that think up crazy stuff like doing stalls with their legs in a lotus position or with their feet behind their head. However, these thinkers did have a good foundation as well.
In MMA, I can see striking and just the overall game evolving as well. Rubber guard is still a relatively new concept that works in BJJ for MMA. The incorporation of judo in MMA is still something that not everyone has, but it has been proven to be effective. For all we know, some Wing-chun practitioner may get into MMA and use some of those techniques in MMA similar to how Machida used karate for MMA. As far as using the cage, for all we know, we may see a flip-off-the-cage-guard-pass one day.
Check out MMA For You at http://www.youtube.com/user/Gobusiness123 for MMA reviews, predictions, and analysis.
Krazy horse is a perfect example of the f the rules guys type
If he only had some focus and goals set during his time he could have done more.
I’m not resting until I’m officially Anderson Silva status.- Jon "Bones" Jones
A very well articulated point. On top of that, it’s right.
"I see him beating Anderson Silva. I see him picking him apart. Him at a 131 years old...(trails off)." - Tito Ortiz on Vitor Belfort at Affliction:DOR
by Rundownloser on Dec 18, 2010 9:02 PM EST up reply actions
I think the kick is an important event for MMA, because human innovation tends to lead to more human innovation. 99.99% of MMA fans, media and most importantly fighters would never believe that kick would work without seeing it with their own eyes. Any fighter who isn’t currently rethinking whether there is some use for the cage they haven’t thought of isn’t doing their job. The complexity of MMA is such that the number of techniques, let alone combinations of techniques, that can be deployed in a fight is effectively infinite. It seems pretty foolish to not believe that there are a huge number of effective techniques out there that have yet to be discovered or proved effective. It’s a bit like the question of whether or not there are aliens living on other planets – you never know they exist until you see it, but given the size of the universe and how little we’ve seen of it, their existence is a pretty safe bet.
Good read, and I agree
I am still surprised we haven’t seen more attempts at punches launched from the cage. It seems like creative fighters would find ways to implement that into a fight.
Also, fun fact I haven’t seen mentioned is Duke Roufus is the younger brother of Rick Roufus, the head kickboxing instructor at The Lab in Glendale, which is where Ben Henderson trains.
And it's not just Duke's camp, it's happening elsewhere in MMA

Walking the line between intelligence and ignorance since 1985
@deowade
Unintelligent Defense, K-1 Level Typing
Sure, but again, I'm talking about strikers
Couture’s and Penn’s technique books are filled with cage-specific wrestling and BJJ techniques.
Follow me on Twitter: @MMANation.
Do you think this will include Heavyweights?
Follow me on twitter @thisredengine
Also please check out SBnation's Red Bulls blog @ www.onceametro.com
by Matthew Roth on Dec 18, 2010 3:28 PM EST up reply actions
If a guy like Badr Hari could actually grapple a bit…
The Hall of Anthony:
Myself
Anthony "Sizzler" Johnson
That one Billy Joel song
Anthony Pettis’ ninja kick
by Anthony Pace on Dec 18, 2010 4:46 PM EST up reply actions
For real...
…it has been said that Nagashima (who is far better looking than Badr) is a judo practitioner of no small skill. Not that he’s good enough to stay on his feet against Aoki, but it’s a base, none the less.
by bigstupidsmile on Dec 18, 2010 5:44 PM EST up reply actions
I understand that you're talking about Striking
But I just wanted to point out to others that the level of creativity isn’t as low any many think. I should have prefaced it a bit better.
Walking the line between intelligence and ignorance since 1985
@deowade
Unintelligent Defense, K-1 Level Typing
but what Oliveira did
has something in common with Pettis and Belcher’s kicks that Couture & Penns stuff doesn’t and that’s the high-speed bouncing off the cage. Couture will bounce opponents off the cage a little but never at such high speed or to such dramatic effect but mostly he likes to use the cage to stifle movement.
Follow me on Twitter @KidNate
Striking
"I'm gonna go after number one, whoever it is. If it's Anderson, or I gotta go up after the guys at 205, or go on a diet and go after Jose Aldo-- it doesn't matter." -Chael Sonnen
by Charles Awad on Dec 18, 2010 3:25 PM EST up reply actions
There was an interview with Roufus on junkie the other day
Excerpt:
Believe it or not, the sensational kick Anthony Pettis used to floor Benson Henderson was inspired by the cult martial-arts classic, “Ong Bak.”
Pettis’ coach, Duke Roufus, said he’s played around with “old-school” Muay Thai techniques for several years, and the crazy kick that Pettis landed is just one such attack.
“I just believe in being creative,” Roufus today told MMAjunkie.com (www.mmajunkie.com). “Anthony is a lifelong martial artist, and I’m a lifelong martial artist, and we’re just trying to keep evolving and blend it all together.”
he tried something similar to this Capo kick too (can't remember on who though)

damn you… just the mention of Ong Bak compelled me to go and gif the shit out of it. Surprisingly, no flying wall kicks in the first one (but a flying wall elbow). Maybe in Tom Yum Goong or Ong Bak 2
Satoshi Kon
R.I.P.
that was the Roller fght
Have you ever noticed that anybody driving slower than you is an idiot, and anyone going faster than you is a maniac?
George Carlin
Using your enviroment in a fight is just common sense
Old school Caporeira is based heavily on using whatever advantage you had in a confined area, like vaulting off of walls and tricky, flashy kicks to confuse the opponent.
Anyone who is bringing something new into the cage is advancing the sport. Is the idea completely original? Of course not. For a couple hundred years there’s actually been martial art systems that teach the use of vaulting, cartwheels and handstands, among other crazy things. We’ve actually seen a handful of fighters use the cage this way, just never for the purpose of executing a flying roundhouse.
Bones was the first person I’ve seen to fake a TD as a set up for a the spinning back elbow(also the first I’ve seen), that is truly advancing striking in MMA. What’s impressive is there is no ancient art that teaches fake TD/spinning back elbows.
"I'll rock your body with big nasty hooks!"
hmmm
no ancient art that teaches fake TD/spinning back elbows.
impossible to prove.
Follow me on Twitter @KidNate
Fair point
I better get researching. If I find one, watch out, MMA. I’m flooding the market with ancient badassery. I’m talking old school pancrase/ninjitsu.
"I'll rock your body with big nasty hooks!"
I think a big angle missed in selling this fight was the battle between the trainers. Rick Roufus trains Ben Henderson in striking and Duke Roufus trains Pettis. I think they could have played that up well in the build up. Brothers training young lions to battle it out.
'cause the heart that betrays itself willingly, Is like a nation that trades freedom for stability, its so seductive to be cold and corrupted and isolated and try to be an independent republic, But liberty to be loved on the surface is worthless, The sacrifice of revolution with no purpose
by ImmortalTechnique92 on Dec 18, 2010 4:25 PM EST reply actions
what?
there’s no record of you having a comment deleted or hidden. perhaps there’s a tech issue or your mind.
Follow me on Twitter @KidNate
Is Head Kick Legend leaving SBN?
Does this mean Leland is now the only writer among the affiliates who knows what he’s talking about in JMMA?
SBN – Nelson – HKL = LelandRoling.com?
The Hall of Anthony:
Myself
Anthony "Sizzler" Johnson
That one Billy Joel song
Anthony Pettis’ ninja kick
Not if I have anything to say about it
I just registered it!
"I'm gonna go after number one, whoever it is. If it's Anderson, or I gotta go up after the guys at 205, or go on a diet and go after Jose Aldo-- it doesn't matter." -Chael Sonnen
by Charles Awad on Dec 18, 2010 5:04 PM EST up reply actions
Kind of says something about the actual interest in JMMA stateside
Shit’s dead everywhere.
"I am a man who pisses largely and frequently, which they say is a sign of great mental activity" -Henry Miller-
Contributor at cagepages.com Come check us out.
by Neil Manich on Dec 18, 2010 11:58 PM EST up reply actions
LOL
The Hall of Anthony:
Myself
Anthony "Sizzler" Johnson
That one Billy Joel song
Anthony Pettis’ ninja kick
by Anthony Pace on Dec 19, 2010 4:01 PM EST up reply actions
Shit, that last comment was for another thread
I meant to say it’d be awesome if Anderson Silva was about five years younger and tried to implement the cage into his assault
The Hall of Anthony:
Myself
Anthony "Sizzler" Johnson
That one Billy Joel song
Anthony Pettis’ ninja kick
Or if Herschel Walker was like.... 30 years younger
"I'm gonna go after number one, whoever it is. If it's Anderson, or I gotta go up after the guys at 205, or go on a diet and go after Jose Aldo-- it doesn't matter." -Chael Sonnen
by Charles Awad on Dec 18, 2010 5:04 PM EST up reply actions
Or if Jon Jones was like….a couple years older.
Hey UFC4 go fuck yourself, how about that? Fucking punk, I was just asking for the source that says lesnar gets 5 mill a fight, it’s obvious one does not exist. Bunch of gabronis on a site pulling figures out of your ass.
by Garrett Bennicas
by ufc4 on Dec 18, 2010 5:16 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
fap fap fap
The Hall of Anthony:
Myself
Anthony "Sizzler" Johnson
That one Billy Joel song
Anthony Pettis’ ninja kick
by Anthony Pace on Dec 18, 2010 8:35 PM EST up reply actions
Rufus is definitely improving MMA striking a lot.
Anthony Pettis also utilizes some crisp capoeira mixed with strikes.
Also, most of the people fighting out of their camp have good striking, so he’s definitely doing something that works.
A little of this, to a little of that, before finishing with this...


…insert gif of Mir pushing off the cage with his feet to trap Sylvia’s arm and snap it…
Not that I condone facism or any ism for that matter. Isms are in my opinion, not good. A person shouldn't believe in an ism, he should believe in himself.
I quote John Lennon, "I don't believe in Beatles, I just believe in me". Good point there, after all he was the walrus. I could be the walrus. Wouldn't change the fact I have to bum rides off of people.
Jordan Breen Always Says
To paraphrase that one thing he loves about MMA is that at any one moment the perfect technique could be something crazy from Karate or Akido or Kempo (sp?). He always points out the spinning backfist as an example. I think with the wall run kick. It was the perfect way to close the distance. A crazy technique, but the perfect one given the situation.
terrific posts in here, awesome read
isn’t duke responsible for pat barry’s rise in striking prowess, along with the tweaks mitrione has made to his game?
memory fails me but i think both are with the rofusport camp/have ties and are affiliated with it
"he's the best punchy face man in the buisness"
Yes...he's responsible for both
Though the base was set for Pat as he spent a considerable amount of time at Vox training under Ernesto Hoost. Mitrione is just a very fast learner who has been with Roufus since training for the Kimbo Slice fight.
Follow me on twitter @thisredengine
Also please check out SBnation's Red Bulls blog @ www.onceametro.com
by Matthew Roth on Dec 19, 2010 10:25 AM EST up reply actions
Duke has another UFC guy
A tall skinny white kid, he’s bald.
Anyway, he leaned to his right and feinted a little. His opponent leaned to his(the opponent’s) right to avoid the feint. Duke’s guy threw a left high kick off of his lead foot. Bam! A seemingly effortless head kick KO. Duke used this kick his entire kick boxing career. To me this says more about the way he is advancing the sport.
You see this technique in a lot kickboxing, but rarely in MMA. The fact that Duke’s students not only perfect the technique, but recognize the appropriate time to execute in MMA is proof that Roufus is changing the way we think about striking in MMA.
"I'll rock your body with big nasty hooks!"
mm i thought i remembered well
barry has a fantastic striking base, you can see his improvements fight by fight
while mitrione isn’t exactly technical excellence at this point in time
he’s come on leaps and bounds, and is starting to put his power down at the right time
i bloody love watching both guys fight, pettis also
its just nice to see a coach praised so much for the advancing of his students striking game
instead of coaches ripped to bits for safe fighting/ill advised game planning
its turning out to be a nice all round year for MMA
"he's the best punchy face man in the buisness"
shit, i thought i hit reply, this was @ thisredengine
"he's the best punchy face man in the buisness"
by blubber_guard on Dec 19, 2010 10:32 AM EST up reply actions

by 




















