Updating UFC's PPV Production
by xFenixKnightx on Dec 11, 2010 1:09 PM EST
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The UFC does so many things right. It is the undisputed #1 MMA organization in the world for a reason. But its lacking in some very minor departments that if updated could go a long longway in helping UFC and MMA come off as more mainstream, legitimate and truly professional sporting event. Here are just a few of my suggestions.
*Gladiator intro needs to go away or be completely redone with new music. Get rid of the cheesy outdated music and opera chants during Tale of the Tapes
*Needs more of a sporting event feel, less nu-metal rock concert, WWE attitude vibe. Face the Pain needs to face the trash can and dive in.
*Better crowd lighting. UFC events are too dark on camera. I'm not saying it needs to be really bright in there but maybe they could add some colored lighting to the audience like Top Rank did with a beautiful blue tint in the Pac/Margs fight.
*New canvas color. The current color is very drab and does not look good in HD. They need something with more pop. I love the blue WEC cage and the logos are still very visible. Boxing mostly uses blue and it works great.
*Commentators should both wear jackets. Affliction makes sport coats don't they, Rogan? Again this is just part of appealing to an even broader worldwide audience.
*Add a 3rd man to the commentary. Kenny Florian, Mir or Randy. Someone with real fight experience that actually adds to the fight with different insight.
*Compustrike or Fight Metric stats. This is a no brainer. Stats are a part of professional sports and MMA should be no different. Giving out the numbers after each fight or round would be great.
*No prelim fights directly after the main event. Closing comments from Goldy and Rogan immediately after the main event. Sign off with a prelim fight if enough time. Hardcores still get their prelims fight and casuals still get to hear the closing commentary. Right now as it is most people do not stick around for it.
*National Anthems on Title fights. Every professional sporting event has this. Also, this is a opportunity to get star singers to do guest appearances on UFC PPV's by singing the National Anthem should an American fighter fight for the title.
It's not a lot but it can go a long way. These changes will not deter the young males but it WILL make the older males take a more serious look at the sport. Why just target the young crowd? If they want the NFL fans and more they will need to up their production. There is absolutely no reason why the Premier MMA company on the planet should come off as second rate or cheap.
Please give your opinion and if you want to do something like at least get the UFC to notice, Retweet and Like it. Thanks.
*UPDATE 12/12/2010: It seems as though the majority of people are liking most of these ideas except for the National Anthems. No big deal, if we can get at least some of these other things updated it would be great!
The FanPosts are solely the subjective opinions of Bloody Elbow readers and do not necessarily reflect the views of Bloody Elbow editors or staff.
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Honestly I think they should kill the Gladiator opening for the Baba O'Riely they play in arenas
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=orl6JoYWQbE for reference
And the mat should be crisp white or blue like the WEC.
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Also please check out SBnation's Red Bulls blog @ www.onceametro.com
by Matthew Roth on Dec 11, 2010 1:25 PM EST reply actions 5 recs
Yes that would be sick. Show some history. I love the blue WEC cage but always thought I was the only one.
Mike Goldberg: "You know Joe, When Matt and his brother Mark Hughes were growing up, they would pound each other behind the barn."
by xFenixKnightx on Dec 11, 2010 1:27 PM EST up reply actions
You know in that vid Goldy actually sounds like a sports announcer and not a robot. I like it. =)
Mike Goldberg: "You know Joe, When Matt and his brother Mark Hughes were growing up, they would pound each other behind the barn."
by xFenixKnightx on Dec 11, 2010 1:30 PM EST up reply actions
never thought about it until now
But Goldie totally sounds like Geoff on Craig Ferguson, what with the saying of things that don’t quite fit in and all…
Even GSP can't make the Princeton Tiger less of a sissy...
by Anthony Pace on Dec 11, 2010 3:35 PM EST up reply actions
Yo, who writes this bullshit? ;)
Dude, seeing the UFC/Baba O’Riely video live is one of the greatest experiences ever!!!
@fjbar on twitter...formerly El Mexicutioner
Hey now!
Go back to MMA4Real, son. =P
Mike Goldberg: "You know Joe, When Matt and his brother Mark Hughes were growing up, they would pound each other behind the barn."
by xFenixKnightx on Dec 12, 2010 3:10 PM EST up reply actions
Only downside:
You know they’d have to do a lot of editing to remove guys they don’t like anymore.
But they shouldn’t. That thing is SO MUCH better than the hacky Gladiator clip and thrash opening.
You know what makes it great? A total absence of one-sided ground-and-pound. Unlike all their marketing materials/show openings, which make it real hard to bring a newbie to a PPV.
Koscheck has frosted tips.
Sorry but I hate the National Anthem thing
We don’t need to take national pride everywhere we go. Just because boxing does it doesn’t mean the UFC should. I hear the damn Anthem every day and it doesn’t make me any more or less “patriotic” having it poorly sung or overdone.
I like most of these ideas though. Gladiator needs to go. The WEC intro is pretty good.
Another thing I suggest is get rid of is the fight clock graphic. I think the Fight Night one is better than the PPVs and the Fight Night graphics (and Verus graphics) are cleaner and crisper than the PPVs.
Accustomed to mediocrity.
by SSreporters on Dec 11, 2010 1:27 PM EST reply actions 14 recs
Like I said these are just my ideas and I see where you’re coming from.
Mike Goldberg: "You know Joe, When Matt and his brother Mark Hughes were growing up, they would pound each other behind the barn."
by xFenixKnightx on Dec 11, 2010 1:29 PM EST up reply actions
It doesn't just need to be the United States National Anthem
Every big sport has national anthems. It would give it more substance if before the Buffer intros they had the national anthems for the fighters fighting for a title.
Follow me on twitter @thisredengine
Also please check out SBnation's Red Bulls blog @ www.onceametro.com
by Matthew Roth on Dec 11, 2010 1:31 PM EST up reply actions 5 recs
Imagine if they would start it tonight with the Canadian Nat anthem and USA’s? It would be sweet. Also can you imagine UFC hosting a PPV in Cowboy stadium and them just treating it like any another PPV? It would be lame.
Mike Goldberg: "You know Joe, When Matt and his brother Mark Hughes were growing up, they would pound each other behind the barn."
by xFenixKnightx on Dec 11, 2010 1:35 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
more nationalistic fervor
…great…
'if you don't have humility as a fighter, fighting will bring humility to you...'
I would not be against
A national anthem played at the start of the event if there was a USA vs. Canada theme like at UFC 58.
Actually I wish the UFC would try that again.
Accustomed to mediocrity.
National anthems can take six minutes to get through.
I’d prefer to see a 1st round KO from the prelims in that time. Especially if I’m paying fiddy for it.
Koscheck has frosted tips.
Good ideas, that fight clock does seem goofy and youre right Versus presents the UFC better.
Mike Goldberg: "You know Joe, When Matt and his brother Mark Hughes were growing up, they would pound each other behind the barn."
by xFenixKnightx on Dec 11, 2010 1:32 PM EST up reply actions
Amen
I agree with you on this. Screw nationalism.
"You stick a microphone in a guy's face and he calls out anybody but the champion, and Joe Silva should fax him a pink slip right then." -- Chael Sonnen.
A stylized montage of various Martial Arts would be awesome if you ask me.
Walking the line between intelligence and ignorance since 1985
@deowade
Unintelligent Defense, I bring Cricket bats to fist fights.
by Damon O. on Dec 11, 2010 1:27 PM EST reply actions 3 recs
Exactly, I mean some of these Youtube vids out there are better than what they are using. Like that Why We Love MMA vid.
Mike Goldberg: "You know Joe, When Matt and his brother Mark Hughes were growing up, they would pound each other behind the barn."
by xFenixKnightx on Dec 11, 2010 1:29 PM EST up reply actions
Yep
And the Nu-Metal/Gladiator combo will keep them from being accepted but every household like they want. It plays right into the stereotype of the average UFC fan that Bob Arum described.
Walking the line between intelligence and ignorance since 1985
@deowade
Unintelligent Defense, I bring Cricket bats to fist fights.
by Damon O. on Dec 11, 2010 1:41 PM EST up reply actions 4 recs
Unfortunately it true. I wish we could start a massive campaign and at least get some changes done. =)
Mike Goldberg: "You know Joe, When Matt and his brother Mark Hughes were growing up, they would pound each other behind the barn."
by xFenixKnightx on Dec 11, 2010 1:44 PM EST up reply actions
As a creative director/designer, please never say "with more pop" ever again
Other designers know exactly what I’m talking about. The mat is the color that is it for contrast— which looks better on your TV. You don’t want to see the mat, you want to see the humans (and they want you to see the ads). I think the design of the octagon is pretty firmly ingrained.
Face the Pain, awful as it is, is part of UFC’s branding and a lot of us are partial to it because it reminds us what we’re watching. Sure, it can (and probably should) be replaced so we can become acclimated to a better song/entrance over the next several years, but you seem to be asking them to change everything about the identity of their production which I would not recommend. The chanting during the Tale of the Tape should stay. There’s nothing dated about it and it instinctively notifies the consumer to perk up because the fight’s about to start.
Don’t agree about crowd lighting, sport coats, or National Anthem; but do agree about a third regular commentator (a fighter) and Compustrike stats being integrated.
I have a feeling that the UFC is in the process of polishing some of these things in 2011, but they may be more stubborn than you or me about some of the particulars. I’m more interested in them upping the ante for their fighter profiling and finding interesting ways to create empathy between lesser known fighters and consumers. I think they’d do well to show short introduction videos before each fight that makes the air (90 seconds would suffice) and I have a strong feeling that their reason for not doing it has to do with man power/lack of a strong video post-production crew. Sounds crazy— but they should poach some of the WWE’s excellent video editing staff and start doing those, as well as in-arena intro videos to accompany the music (no fireworks please).
"I'm gonna go after number one, whoever it is. If it's Anderson, or I gotta go up after the guys at 205, or go on a diet and go after Jose Aldo-- it doesn't matter." -Chael Sonnen
by Charles Awad on Dec 11, 2010 1:59 PM EST reply actions 5 recs
As a fellow designer I have to disagree. Do you get confused flipping through football games on different networks? The fights will be the same and fans casual or hardcore aren’t going to get turned off because of a few edits like music changes or mat color differences or a Joe rogan in a sport coat.
The strikeforce mat, while still effectively gray is much lighter (almost white) and brightens the overall image.
I dont think you’re looking at the big picture for the UFC (biggest sport in 10 years). The pro wrestling-like nu-metal/human tribal beats/gladiator angle will never get them there.
by nastyem on Dec 11, 2010 2:33 PM EST up reply actions 3 recs
Who the fuck said to keep the numetal?
Not sure why you chose that point to make. I’m saying they, like many corporations, made a mistake in choosing these things when they did and it’s difficult to merely slink out. I tell potential clients all the time that they need to address their long-term identity at the outset of their business. I handle redesigns as early as three months out from launch and even then it’s a messy situation. This is on a whole other spectrum.
And the squabbling over the mat is semantics at its worst. You’re comparing the Strikeforce mat? May as well argue over the hues of grass in the NFL (which, by the way, is a non sequitur— considering the level on which they operate, their years of similarly tasteless identity hold-overs like that asshole robot, and how production is handled from station to station while the UFC controls their own).
That being said, your disagreements with my assessments seem minor. Designers can’t seem to pass up the opportunity to criticize their peers, though I say that presumably.
"I'm gonna go after number one, whoever it is. If it's Anderson, or I gotta go up after the guys at 205, or go on a diet and go after Jose Aldo-- it doesn't matter." -Chael Sonnen
by Charles Awad on Dec 11, 2010 2:48 PM EST up reply actions 3 recs
Face the Pain, awful as it is, is part of UFC’s branding and a lot of us are partial to it because it reminds us what we’re watching.
If you think this isn’t implying that the UFC should keep the nu-metal then I don’t know how to respond.
My disagreements are definitely minor and it’s pretty odd to see you just react the way you did over some things that mean so little. I’d hate to see how you deal with criticism from a client.
React the way I did? Are you serious?
And please don’t pretend to assume I treat some stranger on a website the same way I do a client. That’s pretty absurd.
"I'm gonna go after number one, whoever it is. If it's Anderson, or I gotta go up after the guys at 205, or go on a diet and go after Jose Aldo-- it doesn't matter." -Chael Sonnen
by Charles Awad on Dec 11, 2010 3:14 PM EST up reply actions
And
Sure, it can (and probably should) be replaced
…sort of says it all, doesn’t it?
"I'm gonna go after number one, whoever it is. If it's Anderson, or I gotta go up after the guys at 205, or go on a diet and go after Jose Aldo-- it doesn't matter." -Chael Sonnen
by Charles Awad on Dec 11, 2010 3:15 PM EST up reply actions
Selective editing = weak.
He said it should be changed. His whole post talked about it.
Koscheck has frosted tips.
Woosah, bro. Woosah.
Mike Goldberg: "You know Joe, When Matt and his brother Mark Hughes were growing up, they would pound each other behind the barn."
by xFenixKnightx on Dec 11, 2010 3:12 PM EST up reply actions
Ha
Come on d00der. I say the word fuck and everyone think I’m chewing glass ova here.
"I'm gonna go after number one, whoever it is. If it's Anderson, or I gotta go up after the guys at 205, or go on a diet and go after Jose Aldo-- it doesn't matter." -Chael Sonnen
by Charles Awad on Dec 11, 2010 3:18 PM EST up reply actions
The mat is a small gripe but it would be cool if they changed it. Change a lot of small things and it goes a long way.
Mike Goldberg: "You know Joe, When Matt and his brother Mark Hughes were growing up, they would pound each other behind the barn."
by xFenixKnightx on Dec 11, 2010 3:22 PM EST up reply actions
I’ll concede that it could be cool, possibly, but you have to realize how many channels of authority you have to go through to make aesthetic modifications in an organization that big. People look at the UFC from the outside and figure it’s just Dana with a gavel, but there’s a lot of bureaucracy when it comes to such decisions and it’s difficult to move on some of these at-first-glance little changes. A lot of the work I do is with larger organizations and it can be a nightmare to alter seemingly meaningless things. You find yourself, at times, wishing you never presented a particular alteration. Shit’s no fun.
"I'm gonna go after number one, whoever it is. If it's Anderson, or I gotta go up after the guys at 205, or go on a diet and go after Jose Aldo-- it doesn't matter." -Chael Sonnen
by Charles Awad on Dec 11, 2010 3:32 PM EST up reply actions
Gah youre making me crazy! lol The chanting should stay? NO WAY! Hahahaha!
I think the logos POP =P more on the blue canvas. It looks drab and dirty even if its clean. Boxing looks great with the usual blue they use these days is all I’m saying.
Like I said they were just some of my ideas. All I know is that it needs updating.
Mike Goldberg: "You know Joe, When Matt and his brother Mark Hughes were growing up, they would pound each other behind the barn."
by xFenixKnightx on Dec 11, 2010 2:33 PM EST up reply actions
Royal blue is dated
I like it in the WEC because it reminds me of WEC (sad face), but it’s not a good look. BOISE STATE!!
I mean, they’re not going to move away from a low opacity color. It’s just not going to happen, it doesn’t make sense. I remember when I was a kid, wishing that the WWF would use a red mat for RAW. Turns out I was totally wrong on that. There’s a perfectly good reason why they don’t. We can argue about which low opacity hue to use, but that’s walking in quicksand.
"I'm gonna go after number one, whoever it is. If it's Anderson, or I gotta go up after the guys at 205, or go on a diet and go after Jose Aldo-- it doesn't matter." -Chael Sonnen
by Charles Awad on Dec 11, 2010 2:51 PM EST up reply actions
You just blew my mind.
"I'm gonna go after number one, whoever it is. If it's Anderson, or I gotta go up after the guys at 205, or go on a diet and go after Jose Aldo-- it doesn't matter." -Chael Sonnen
by Charles Awad on Dec 11, 2010 4:33 PM EST up reply actions
Nitro often had a red mat
But that was because Ric Flair was perpetually “busted open”
Even GSP can't make the Princeton Tiger less of a sissy...
by Anthony Pace on Dec 11, 2010 7:00 PM EST up reply actions
HAHAHA
I always wanted to see Flair vs Steve Corino in a hair-dye match. First one to ginger loses.
"I'm gonna go after number one, whoever it is. If it's Anderson, or I gotta go up after the guys at 205, or go on a diet and go after Jose Aldo-- it doesn't matter." -Chael Sonnen
by Charles Awad on Dec 11, 2010 8:01 PM EST up reply actions
The nu-metal is a negative aspect of the branding and absolutely needs to go.
The level of mainstream accessibility between WEC and UFC shows is staggering, largely based on exactly that intro. The operatic chanting should totally stay though. I’ve gotten so conditioned to stop what I’m doing and sit on my couch when I hear that, it’s sad.
The UFC doesn’t need a third man in the booth, they just need a real play by play guy. Rogan has to do color and pbp all by himself right now. Goldberg will likely never go as he’s become a recognizable part of the brand, but he’s clearly still an empty suit.
"Someone is WRONG on the internet. What do you want me to do? LEAVE? Then they'll keep being wrong!"
-Randall Munroe
by pdl on Dec 11, 2010 4:40 PM EST up reply actions 5 recs
Goldberg is as much a part of their branding as anything
With his “and here we go”/“and it is allllll over”. I know people like to gripe about him, but that tandem gets too much criticism. Unfortunately for us, it doesn’t get much better than Goldy and Rogan when it comes to sports commentary.
"I'm gonna go after number one, whoever it is. If it's Anderson, or I gotta go up after the guys at 205, or go on a diet and go after Jose Aldo-- it doesn't matter." -Chael Sonnen
by Charles Awad on Dec 11, 2010 4:46 PM EST up reply actions
“Unfortunately for us, it doesn’t get much better than Goldy and Rogan when it comes to sports commentary.”
That’s just not true.
Twitter: @Mike_Fagan_13
Thanks for once again adding nothing to the conversation
The comment is on the basis that sports commentary is mostly bad. It’s not a thesis statement.
"I'm gonna go after number one, whoever it is. If it's Anderson, or I gotta go up after the guys at 205, or go on a diet and go after Jose Aldo-- it doesn't matter." -Chael Sonnen
by Charles Awad on Dec 12, 2010 4:33 PM EST up reply actions 3 recs
Goldy won't go
Because he’s the ad man. Noone can plug a Jason Statham Movie, Bud Light, Burger King, and the season premier of Manswers in 1 round like Goldberg can.
That said, I think Joe & Mike have good synergy, and get the job done quite well. It seems like whenever they have had other fighters doing commentary with them, that person clearly takes a backseat and only offers any incite when Joe illicits it from them. Randy & Sherk being the prime examples of this.
You can read my work over @ http://www.headkicklegend.com/
"I swear it upon Zeus an outstanding runner cannot be the equal of an average wrestler."
-Socrates
by ElliotMatheny on Dec 13, 2010 12:24 AM EST up reply actions
And I concede the point on the song
I’m not willing to defend it, but I will explain the obscure logic behind its continued use (which I’m certain you understand).
"I'm gonna go after number one, whoever it is. If it's Anderson, or I gotta go up after the guys at 205, or go on a diet and go after Jose Aldo-- it doesn't matter." -Chael Sonnen
by Charles Awad on Dec 11, 2010 4:47 PM EST up reply actions
Of course. To clarify my stance:
Brand building is important. Certain decisions made sense at the time and has been successful at building a strong base of demographic specific casual fans. But the brand, as it exists today, is not viable for the next step they are trying to make without tweaks. That song is one of the most obvious and prohibitive given the negligible cost of replacing it with something more palatable. WEC intro was fine, they know how to sell to a sporting audience, they just aren’t.
Regarding Goldy… he’s been around forever. I get that. But he hasn’t changed in forever either. He still flubs often and provides zero content that any literate person with a sheet of notes couldn’t do. Go to twitter.com/danawhite and Manswers is on next… ONLY on Spike TV! It’s not like he even has a great voice for announcing or even sounds comfortable in the booth. His phrasing is as awkward as it is mockable. ‘Very caustic in his commenting is Blackout612.’ His value add is negligible beyond branding. The real discussion is if the UFC should add a second commentator to the booth to assist Rogan and the well trained parrot.
"Someone is WRONG on the internet. What do you want me to do? LEAVE? Then they'll keep being wrong!"
-Randall Munroe
by pdl on Dec 11, 2010 5:03 PM EST up reply actions 4 recs
Which is why I support a third figure in the booth
I would love for Randy to be around more often or, ideally, Florian on a semi-permanent basis. Goldy is a parrot, we all know that. He’s a live ad-voice/sound board. I am just convinced that, while the intro will eventually go, Goldy won’t. He and Buffer and their mid-life crisis’ will be haunting us for a long time.
"I'm gonna go after number one, whoever it is. If it's Anderson, or I gotta go up after the guys at 205, or go on a diet and go after Jose Aldo-- it doesn't matter." -Chael Sonnen
by Charles Awad on Dec 11, 2010 5:33 PM EST up reply actions
They need someone in the booth to keep Rogan from riding Eddie Bravo's jock
I throw up every time I hear the phrase “crackhead control”
Even GSP can't make the Princeton Tiger less of a sissy...
by Anthony Pace on Dec 11, 2010 7:03 PM EST up reply actions
A-fucking-greed.
Rios picked the wrong battle. Rogan just loves using stupid 10th Planet terms and that would have been a reasonable bone to pick. Someone more traditional background would be a massive boon to the booth. Like if Bas wasn’t insane and hard to reign in, he’s be a great candidate. Florian is getting up there in years, I can only hope to see him in the booth immediately following his retirement. Even if he gets a bit overexcited watching fights, it’s almost endearing. Plus he has a traditional BJJ black belt (second degree?) as well as a great understanding of technical boxing and kickboxing. Aside from the Jabouin favoritism, I can’t think of any bad moments of commentary from him.
Florian, Miletich, and Rogan would be a pretty strong booth if they had well defined roles and could work together well. Rogan should move to play by play with a former fighter on color.
"Someone is WRONG on the internet. What do you want me to do? LEAVE? Then they'll keep being wrong!"
-Randall Munroe
I wonder how Jeremy Horn would be in the booth.
Even GSP can't make the Princeton Tiger less of a sissy...
by Anthony Pace on Dec 11, 2010 7:37 PM EST up reply actions
I’m not sure Rogan has the voice or sense of narrative to carry a play-by-play, to be honest. I think he could be useful in a more niche “fan in the booth” role. He’s competent enough to handle the technical aspects, but a fighter/trainer would be much preferred.
Twitter: @Mike_Fagan_13
How about zazz? Could we add a little zazz?
"Negative, negative. I gotta stay lean and lightning and ready to fight." Capt. H.M. Murdock
by BadB on Dec 12, 2010 2:05 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
The UFC partnered with Fight Metric so CompuStrike is out.
http://www.sbnation.com/2010/9/2/1665218/press-release-fight-metric-becomes
FightMetric provides its clients, including the UFC, with live round-by-round data during MMA events. The information is available online at UFC.com and other FightMetric partner sites, with FightMetric statistics powering fighter profile and events pages.
Regardless whether it be CompuStrike or Fight Metric providing the data I agree they could be using it during the telecast.
Just BE.
Right
I think he may have just mistaken the two, but the point remains the same— it’d be nice to either see it displayed or, short of that, have Rogan maybe use the numbers as delivered to him like in other sports (which may be a better idea to prevent such a number-centric viewership).
"I'm gonna go after number one, whoever it is. If it's Anderson, or I gotta go up after the guys at 205, or go on a diet and go after Jose Aldo-- it doesn't matter." -Chael Sonnen
by Charles Awad on Dec 11, 2010 2:52 PM EST up reply actions
I hate how Strikefoce uses compustrike.
Having Pat Miletich simply say “Fighter A had a much great output in the striking, and most of the blows were landing solidly.” The numbers, especially between rounds, are dumb.
Gather the stats, make sure they are correct, and use them for promos later. Not during the event.
"Someone is WRONG on the internet. What do you want me to do? LEAVE? Then they'll keep being wrong!"
-Randall Munroe
Yeah, I think I agree
But I’m not opposed to using the stats on the fly in commentary if it’s done tastefully (which worries me with Rogan increasingly picking sides in fights).
"I'm gonna go after number one, whoever it is. If it's Anderson, or I gotta go up after the guys at 205, or go on a diet and go after Jose Aldo-- it doesn't matter." -Chael Sonnen
by Charles Awad on Dec 11, 2010 4:38 PM EST up reply actions
yea. I think if they want to use the stats during the event, just put them up on the screen, because I don’t trust anyone that currently does mma commentary to use the stats properly, and using them incorrectly is worse than not having them.
one time on SF someone was landing a greater number of strikes, but clearly losing the fight, and they were trying to use the numbers to say that it was close/the wrong guy was winning.
Maybe fightmetric numbers will be more useful because they aren’t just counting, but i still don’t trust rogan and goldberg to use them properly.
National Anthems on Title fights.
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I pray to one god......and his name is Kazushi Sakuraba.
by MMA-UK on Dec 11, 2010 2:57 PM EST reply actions 8 recs
Some like it some don’t. Not all UFC shows have a title fight so there isn’t going to be Nat Anthems on all shows. I just think it adds to the greatness of the sport, doesn’t take a huge chunk of time out of the show, and casuals like it IMO.
Mike Goldberg: "You know Joe, When Matt and his brother Mark Hughes were growing up, they would pound each other behind the barn."
by xFenixKnightx on Dec 11, 2010 3:30 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I don’t really trust the people at a ufc fight to do the anthems right. I wanted to shoot myself during the anthems at a rangers game over the weekend, i can’t imagine what a ufc event would be.
look at how upset people get at the USA chants, could you imagine the crying when they boo a non-US anthem?
When have you heard someone boo during any countries Anthems? I haven’t. Booing on boring fights and anthems 2 way diff things. There wouldn’t be a problem.
Mike Goldberg: "You know Joe, When Matt and his brother Mark Hughes were growing up, they would pound each other behind the barn."
by xFenixKnightx on Dec 11, 2010 6:43 PM EST up reply actions
Well I haven’t heard anyone do it at mma fights, because they don’t do it, but i heard a bunch of assholes at a new york ranger game this weekend, and the percentage of assholes is going to be much higher at a ufc event.
Well lets see previous and some future title fights and what could have been.
GSP vs Kos Canada/USA
GSP vs Ardy Canada/UK
Edgar vs Penn USA
Cain vs Lesnar USA or maybe even Mex if Cain chooses to.
Chael vs Silva USA /Brazil
Grispi vs Aldo USA/Brazil
Cruz vs Jorg USA
Shogun vs Hashad Brazil/USA
Yeah theres not gonna be that many times when its gonna only be a Brazilian Anthem only. Its really going to be a lot of USA and they could bring a big artist to do it.
Mike Goldberg: "You know Joe, When Matt and his brother Mark Hughes were growing up, they would pound each other behind the barn."
by xFenixKnightx on Dec 13, 2010 11:27 AM EST up reply actions
Even compared to a Rangers game?
Bolts from the Blue // "It is what it is." - A.J. Smith
Bloody Elbow // "Richard is a jewel." - Kid Nate
by Richard Wade on Dec 13, 2010 12:05 PM EST up reply actions
Oh god
Spaceships and bad music.
Walking the line between intelligence and ignorance since 1985
@deowade
Unintelligent Defense, I bring Cricket bats to fist fights.
You should be banned
For speaking ill of the man who created the NBA on NBC theme song.
Accustomed to mediocrity.
1 Theme does not make up for a wealth of shitty Elevator Music
Walking the line between intelligence and ignorance since 1985
@deowade
Unintelligent Defense, K-1 Level Typing
Does so.
Bolts from the Blue // "It is what it is." - A.J. Smith
Bloody Elbow // "Richard is a jewel." - Kid Nate
by Richard Wade on Dec 13, 2010 12:05 PM EST up reply actions
here's John Tesh holding a chubby kat in the middle of a terrorist attack
Even GSP can't make the Princeton Tiger less of a sissy...
by Anthony Pace on Dec 11, 2010 7:05 PM EST up reply actions 4 recs
They don’t need a 3 man booth those are hard enough to pull off as it is so just be happy with what you got
NO NATIONAL ANTHEM that stuff just kills the buzz and takes to long
I like Prelims I paid for 3 hrs of fights damn it if the main card goes 2:30 Idc when It is I want my prelims
The Octagon is fine the color is neutral
Face the Pain is kinda meh but eh in the end not the worst in the world
This already feels like a sporting event why should they conform to boxing?
Twitter @MaZZM
mazznet.wordpress.com
Face the Pain is kinda meh but eh in the end not the worst in the world
You’d be surprised just how much music can change how people perceive things. Just look at an MMA Highlight vid. You can have the same exact video but change the music and it will be completely different vids. “Let the bodies hit the floor” and J.Ralph’s “One Million Miles Away” put your head in two completely different places.
This already feels like a sporting event why should they conform to boxing?
Short answer. This.
Slightly longer answer. Boxing has the formula down to a science now. They’ve been doing this for close to a century, so that’s a solid blueprint of what works and what doesn’t. If the UFC wants to be the “Biggest Sport in the World” they’d be wise to learn from their older brother/rival.
Walking the line between intelligence and ignorance since 1985
@deowade
Unintelligent Defense, I bring Cricket bats to fist fights.
by Damon O. on Dec 11, 2010 4:01 PM EST up reply actions 3 recs
Pac man Marg was in TX Stadium or what ever it is the Cowboys lose in you have 70k ppl to light and show off UFC generally runs what 20k venues keeping them dark helps show off the fighters in the ring not the wild and crazy croud now if UFC were to run a giant stadium lighting would make sense but in a smaller venue not so much
Twitter @MaZZM
mazznet.wordpress.com
You think the UFC wants to stick to 10-20k venues forever?
70k capacity crowds are a goal that the UFC wants to achieve. This is the blueprint that you follow, or improve upon. And a great deal of the rowdy nonsense is stemmed from the “Just Bleed” nu-metal crowd. Once the UFC begins to evolve away from that, so will its fans.
Walking the line between intelligence and ignorance since 1985
@deowade
Unintelligent Defense, K-1 Level Typing
i thought HRH Dana didn't want
two fighters to be specks in the distance?
And said he would not go up to the biggest PRIDE crowds as this was too big?
70k would definitely fall into this category.
'if you don't have humility as a fighter, fighting will bring humility to you...'
Just Dana-speak imo
If he knew the UFC could fill 70k, they would do it.
This mostly all sounds good
Except for the national anthems!
"All the time he's boxing, he's thinking. All the time he was thinking, I was hitting him." - Jack Dempsey
I love each suggestion – with a strong exception about the national anthems part. i can’t imagine anything more boring and silly.
gladiator intro has got to go. unbearably cheesy. i would love to show the pre-fight hype & highlight reels to non-MMA fans to get them interested but i don’t, because i cringe at the gladiator bit.
i personally enjoy the music and i think it suits the sport, but having said that, i realize i’m part of a strong but small minority on this. most people don’t want to hear this kind of music, and associating the sport with it would taint the sport in their eyes.
Lot of aversion to the national anthem
Why do you hate freedom?
"I'm gonna go after number one, whoever it is. If it's Anderson, or I gotta go up after the guys at 205, or go on a diet and go after Jose Aldo-- it doesn't matter." -Chael Sonnen
Its crazy, IMO. Not all UFC shows have title fights so its not going to be an every event thing. And exactly how long do these anthems last, what 5min? Its a small thing that goes a long way.
The people who are opposed to these little things are not looking at the big picture about taking UFC/MMA to a higher level. So you’re used to it and they take it away. Does that mean you aren’t watching anymore? No. But does it mean a new audience will take notice? Yeah, c’mon now…
Mike Goldberg: "You know Joe, When Matt and his brother Mark Hughes were growing up, they would pound each other behind the barn."
by xFenixKnightx on Dec 11, 2010 6:37 PM EST up reply actions
Shouldn't you be giving him the freedom to hate freedom?
Don’t bring unnecessary concepts into this. Please.
'if you don't have humility as a fighter, fighting will bring humility to you...'
Welcome to America
We use sarcasm here.
"I'm gonna go after number one, whoever it is. If it's Anderson, or I gotta go up after the guys at 205, or go on a diet and go after Jose Aldo-- it doesn't matter." -Chael Sonnen
by Charles Awad on Dec 12, 2010 11:47 AM EST up reply actions
Welcome to the internet
Tone is hard to convey here.
"All the time he's boxing, he's thinking. All the time he was thinking, I was hitting him." - Jack Dempsey
by Drunken cutman on Dec 12, 2010 6:35 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I doubt the UFC is going to make anything besides the most minor of changes to their production. It’s not that they shouldn’t but they’ve been so successful with what they have been doing that I have the sense that they’re either going to be afraid to tinker with a winner formula or have convinced themselves that whatever they’re doing is great.
That being said, if I could change 3 things it would be:
1) Add a 3rd man to the booth. I really miss the days of Randy Couture adding his insight. If they feel a 3-man booth is to much of a distraction, how about at leas adding a fighter as a pre-, post, and between round analysis. It would be great to cut to a Kenny Florian or someone with in-cage experience explaining the upcoming keys or what we witnessed between rounds.
2) The opening has got to go. It is so cringe-inducing that I can physically see the embarrassment on any potential new fan who is watching it with me. I don’t expect Dream or Pride but here is one department where the UFC could look to Strikeforce for inspiration. The Fedor vs Rogers and Nashville openings put the UFC intros to shame.
3) Better between fight video promos. I really think the UFC (and Strikeforce and Bellator) are missing the boat on how well video interludes could work for them. It allows greater control over the content – unlike those uncomfortable on the sport interviews – and speaks to an audience raised on music videos, you tube, and trailers.
I would love to throw in getting rid of Buffer and Goldberg, but I know it wouldn’t fly.
I'd prefer Martinez
But the Goldy stuff is traditionally overblown.
Also, you’re way too kind to Strikeforce’s intros. They’re static— never been to a party where people perk up to see Brett Rogers standing in a junkyard with a camera strafing him. Everyone needs work there.
"I'm gonna go after number one, whoever it is. If it's Anderson, or I gotta go up after the guys at 205, or go on a diet and go after Jose Aldo-- it doesn't matter." -Chael Sonnen
by Charles Awad on Dec 11, 2010 4:50 PM EST up reply actions
I'm totally coming over
I die a little bit inside when I want to show my enthusiasm and everyone around me is telling dick jokes and doing shots.
"I'm gonna go after number one, whoever it is. If it's Anderson, or I gotta go up after the guys at 205, or go on a diet and go after Jose Aldo-- it doesn't matter." -Chael Sonnen
by Charles Awad on Dec 11, 2010 4:56 PM EST up reply actions
I know Joe is with Golden Boy but I wonder if Strikeforce could sign him? That would be a major improvement for them.
Goldy mostly loses points for dropping product placements everywhere. Buffer is truly a pox on the UFC. I know new fans (especially boxing fans) that look away when he’s on screen.
All I can say about the two strikeforce examples I gave is that they were really effective in an understated way (tip everyone: the build up is as or more important than the payoff: see Sergio Leone movies for examples) People who knew nothing about Fedor suddenly couldn’t wait for the match. I was shocked. That’s when I knew he would have been monstrous in the UFC.
I dislike both Buffers
Bruce is incredibly douchey and Michael makes me want to die whenever adds his little “flourishes” to foreign fighters’ names
Even GSP can't make the Princeton Tiger less of a sissy...
by Anthony Pace on Dec 11, 2010 7:09 PM EST up reply actions
I feel like I'm the only one that digs Michael Buffer
I don’t know, sometimes when I’m getting ready for a workout, I imagine him announcing me to the crowd and it sounds right.
by black dragon on Dec 12, 2010 4:25 PM EST up reply actions
Strikeforce intros are legit high quality intros and new every single time. I don’t know about you but they sure fire people up at my house. And just like most other people on here say. Its embarrassing when the Gladiator chanting intro comes on. Its silly.
Mike Goldberg: "You know Joe, When Matt and his brother Mark Hughes were growing up, they would pound each other behind the barn."
by xFenixKnightx on Dec 11, 2010 6:40 PM EST up reply actions
Closing commentary is a great idea. There are a lot of Jim Lampley haters out there, but the man knows how to close every show. Goldie should watch and learn.
by steak_knife on Dec 11, 2010 4:46 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
He doesn't know how to do actual commentary sadly....
Or he used to and then stopped caring and resorted to BANG BANG BANG
Accustomed to mediocrity.
Other than the BangBangBang stuff he is the best in the biz, playa.
Mike Goldberg: "You know Joe, When Matt and his brother Mark Hughes were growing up, they would pound each other behind the barn."
by xFenixKnightx on Dec 11, 2010 6:31 PM EST up reply actions
SSreporters making a joke. A very unfunny joke.
Mike Goldberg: "You know Joe, When Matt and his brother Mark Hughes were growing up, they would pound each other behind the barn."
by xFenixKnightx on Dec 12, 2010 3:08 PM EST up reply actions
Who would be abject to the Harold Lederman role of scoring the fight?
Instead of Lederman have someone like Helwani score fights round by round. eddie Bravo did it one time but he’d be way too baked to continue.
Accustomed to mediocrity.
Objectivity goes out the window with someone like Bravo
Someone pulls “Crackhead Control”, “The Strawberry Kush Blossom”, a “Roach Clip Guard Pass”, or some other ridiculously named 10th Planet move and they’ll win the round.
Walking the line between intelligence and ignorance since 1985
@deowade
Unintelligent Defense, I bring Cricket bats to fist fights.
does "Octagon control" become replaced by "bogarting the cage"?
Even GSP can't make the Princeton Tiger less of a sissy...
by Anthony Pace on Dec 11, 2010 7:10 PM EST up reply actions
I can hear it now
Rogan: “Oh, Rampage is bogarting the Cage.”
Bravo: “Yea, he straight ganked it from him.”
Goldie: “Don’t forget to check out Blue Mountain State on Spike (2 second pause) TV.”
Walking the line between intelligence and ignorance since 1985
@deowade
Unintelligent Defense, K-1 Level Typing
“If Carlos Condit is going to get out of this position, he’s really going to need to ash the blunt.”
Even GSP can't make the Princeton Tiger less of a sissy...
by Anthony Pace on Dec 11, 2010 7:43 PM EST up reply actions
“OH! Nice reversal using the blunt spray!”
Walking the line between intelligence and ignorance since 1985
@deowade
Unintelligent Defense, K-1 Level Typing
Never thought of this. Another good addition I say.
Mike Goldberg: "You know Joe, When Matt and his brother Mark Hughes were growing up, they would pound each other behind the barn."
by xFenixKnightx on Dec 11, 2010 6:32 PM EST up reply actions
When has Ariel Helwani ever displayed an ability to break down what happened in a fight?
Twitter: @Mike_Fagan_13
Umm, Never. lol
Mike Goldberg: "You know Joe, When Matt and his brother Mark Hughes were growing up, they would pound each other behind the barn."
by xFenixKnightx on Dec 12, 2010 3:04 PM EST up reply actions
My two cents on your two cents
“*Gladiator intro needs to go away or be completely redone with new music. Get rid of the cheesy outdated music and opera chants during Tale of the Tapes
*Needs more of a sporting event feel, less nu-metal rock concert, WWE attitude vibe. Face the Pain needs to face the trash can and dive in."
Agreed, although I don’t mind Face the Pain, the gladiator entrance + tale of the tape chant is not so good.
“*Better crowd lighting. UFC events are too dark on camera. I’m not saying it needs to be all bright in there but maybe they could add some colored lighting to the audience like Top Rank did with Pac/Margs.
*New canvas color. The current color is very drab and does not look good in HD. They need something with more pop.
*Commentators should both wear jackets at least. Affliction makes sport coats don’t they, Rogan?"
These are really non-issues for me.
“*Add a 3rd man. Kenny Florian, Mir or Randy. Someone with real fight experience that actually adds to the fight with different insight.
*Compustrike stats. This is a no brainer"
Sure. Sounds good
“*No prelim fights directly after the main event. Closing comments from Goldy and Rogan immediately after the main event. Sign off with a prelim fight if enough time. Hardcores still get their prelims fight and casuals still get to hear the closing commentary. Right now as it is most people do not stick around for it.
*National Anthems on Title fights. Every professional sporting event has this. Also, this is a opportunity to get star singers to do guest appearances on UFC PPV’s by singing the National Anthem should an American fighter fight for the title. "
ehh…not so much. I mean, maybe have closing commentary then prelims as opposed to prelims then closing commentary. Stuff like National Anthems fill up time that could be spent showing us more fights, so no thanks.
CPG
Alistair Overeem - StrikeForce HeavyWeight Champion, K-1 2010 World Grand Prix Champion
Learn to use block quote.
Bolts from the Blue // "It is what it is." - A.J. Smith
Bloody Elbow // "Richard is a jewel." - Kid Nate
by Richard Wade on Dec 13, 2010 12:10 PM EST up reply actions
no
CPG
Alistair Overeem - StrikeForce HeavyWeight Champion, K-1 2010 World Grand Prix Champion
by Chris Groves on Dec 15, 2010 3:16 AM EST up reply actions
In fairness to Goldy
Those stupid plugs have surely got to be coming from the production truck. He’s the ultimate company man. If you hire a replacement it won’t be that much different.
Goldie sucks but maybe they can hire someone else for play-by-play but keep the Goldie comfort in our hearts by hearing his voice in the plugs.
Accustomed to mediocrity.
I never said get rid of Goldy or Rogan because I know they aren’t, BUT…they do have the power to run less ads and add more detail to the fights. You’re right Goldy is just doing his job. If it wasnt for him I wouldnt have this awesome sig. =P
Mike Goldberg: "You know Joe, When Matt and his brother Mark Hughes were growing up, they would pound each other behind the barn."
by xFenixKnightx on Dec 11, 2010 6:42 PM EST up reply actions
He's not doing his job.
His job is play by play commentary. And he doesn’t do that. Reading the ads is out of his control, but Goldberg could be replaced by literally anybody with radio experience. Jon Anik could step in tomorrow and do the same job.
I don’t believe that the UFC has some incredible commentary team when half of it is clearly dead weight.
"Someone is WRONG on the internet. What do you want me to do? LEAVE? Then they'll keep being wrong!"
-Randall Munroe
by pdl on Dec 11, 2010 6:52 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I’m saying he is doing his job because the UFC wants him to do those ads. I know he sucks greasy balls at play by play. I know exactly what he is going to say WHEN he is going to say it. Its really annoying and its why we will never have those historic “DOWN GOES FRAZIER!” or any other kind of memorable sports calls. He is a robot. But UFC likes him. =(
Mike Goldberg: "You know Joe, When Matt and his brother Mark Hughes were growing up, they would pound each other behind the barn."
by xFenixKnightx on Dec 11, 2010 6:56 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Yup, Anik did a great job and he has a less generic tone like Goldy.
Mike Goldberg: "You know Joe, When Matt and his brother Mark Hughes were growing up, they would pound each other behind the barn."
by xFenixKnightx on Dec 12, 2010 3:04 PM EST up reply actions
I will never understand why they keep the dated, generic, gawd-awful nu-metal garbage when they own the rights to the Pride FC theme.
"A guy in Texas came up to me and told me ‘Frye you're not mixed martial arts, you're no holds barred’, and I said you're god damn right partner." ~ Don Frye
Also, this is how you’re supposed to do a fucking entrance/intro to the show:
"A guy in Texas came up to me and told me ‘Frye you're not mixed martial arts, you're no holds barred’, and I said you're god damn right partner." ~ Don Frye
by sBruce24 on Dec 12, 2010 3:42 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Say what you will about the over the top entrances, but what I REALLY like, is the opening ceremony of the show. All the fighters being introduced while a montage plays, I loved it, especially if we get dudes banging on drums at the same time…but the drums may be a bit much.
Twitter me @kkelchner621
Read me at WatchKalibRun
by Kaleb Kelchner on Dec 12, 2010 9:50 AM EST up reply actions
Here's the thing
Pride FC’s production is very Japanese. The theme, the decor, the announcing, the stereotyping of fighters, the match making, everything. It’s all very Japanese. There is alot that the UFC can take from Pride, but alot of it wouldn’t fly with Americans.
Walking the line between intelligence and ignorance since 1985
@deowade
Unintelligent Defense, K-1 Level Typing
Understood.
And I will be the first to admit I don’t really miss the Screaming Lady or Zuluzinho. But I’m just saying it wouldn’t hurt them to use a few things like the music, some of the intros (think the video montage for Fedor-Cro Cop) and some of the production values. K-1 level aesthetics would be good for their main shows.
"A guy in Texas came up to me and told me ‘Frye you're not mixed martial arts, you're no holds barred’, and I said you're god damn right partner." ~ Don Frye
I agree the Video Montages and VTR's were/are fantastic
And I think they’d be a great addition to the UFC’s production. For instance Dream’s VTR for Bibiano Fernandes at Dream.13 completely shits on the UFC’s attempts.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=naz3ketYkpo
But alot of the other stuff still would be too over the top for most.
Walking the line between intelligence and ignorance since 1985
@deowade
Unintelligent Defense, K-1 Level Typing
Better Quality provided by Chris Nelson
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RGIfvMDnPxU
Walking the line between intelligence and ignorance since 1985
@deowade
Unintelligent Defense, K-1 Level Typing
Anything with Bjork in it gets a thumbs up from me.
When you're rich you don't write checks - Randy Moss
by s.r.genovese on Dec 12, 2010 12:39 PM EST up reply actions
I like the idea of 3 commentators .
I always liked when Randy was in the booth..
by #1 piggy on Dec 12, 2010 12:27 PM EST reply actions 2 recs
my two cents
Gladiator needs 2 go or at least updated. How about have the gladiator actually fight another warrior like a Ninja? That would be more in spirit with the MMA wouldnt it?
yes. YES! A thousand times, YES!
less nu-metal rock concert, WWE attitude vibe. Face the Pain needs to face the trash can and dive in.
"God bless....God."
Semper Fi'
Pain don't hurt...
by RolloTomasi on Dec 12, 2010 1:58 PM EST reply actions 2 recs
I'd like it if they went in this direction, but thats just me.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DXB9KYwtwOg
Mike Goldberg: "You know Joe, When Matt and his brother Mark Hughes were growing up, they would pound each other behind the barn."
by xFenixKnightx on Dec 12, 2010 3:16 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Music wise of course.
Mike Goldberg: "You know Joe, When Matt and his brother Mark Hughes were growing up, they would pound each other behind the barn."
by xFenixKnightx on Dec 12, 2010 3:17 PM EST up reply actions
No national anthems
Agree with most of your ideas but I can’t stand national anthems. To me it’s just a waste of time and everytime the national anthem is played before a sporting event I just want to get it over with
by Viva Italia on Dec 12, 2010 5:10 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
Easy solution
Replace Face the Pain with a John Tesh original.
by Revolver on Dec 12, 2010 5:54 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
In terms of getting new fans
it absolutely needs to change that horrible music, get goldie the hell out of there, and yes, use national anthems. Even if I don’t really want to hear a national anthem, it gives the impression of a true international competition that means more than just the UFC.
There’s a lot of aspects of the UFC that non-fans just roll their eyes at (I’m thinking of my friends here, most of them don’t like MMA), and it’s not the actual sport, it’s the way the UFC presents it. People go to boxing shows in suits, people go to UFC shows in Affliction shirts. I’m not saying one is intrinsically better, but the classiness of boxing helps it be accepted as a real legitimate sport a lot. The UFC has used their brand recognition to grow the sport by leaps and bounds, but now i think its time to take a step back and let the sport do the talking, while the UFC takes the back seat and lets it grow.
Also, i liked how Bellator introduces the fighters. It’s short, classy, gives us a feel for the fighter, a bit of background, done. UFC could do some of that, rather than just using tired cliches in interviews. “Oh is he the guy who said he was going to impose his will on the other guy? Oh, that was the other guy? Oh, he was the guy who said he was definitely going to finish the guy.”
"The only freakshow's the one in my pants"
-James Toney
by chasethegoose on Dec 13, 2010 3:33 AM EST reply actions 3 recs
See, you get it.
Walking the line between intelligence and ignorance since 1985
@deowade
Unintelligent Defense, K-1 Level Typing
by Damon O. on Dec 13, 2010 9:50 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Ha!
Mike Goldberg: "You know Joe, When Matt and his brother Mark Hughes were growing up, they would pound each other behind the barn."
by xFenixKnightx on Dec 13, 2010 11:19 AM EST up reply actions
If the 'classiness' of a sport determines its mainstream acceptance,
than you should relay this information to fans of the NFL. It is a moot point, and you have the relationship inverse: sports become large not because they mold uniquely to the fans, but rather, because they cause the fans to mold uniquely to them.
by Disco-Platypus on Dec 13, 2010 1:32 PM EST up reply actions
ITS TIME TO END THIS SUFFERIN
'cause the heart that betrays itself willingly, Is like a nation that trades freedom for stability, its so seductive to be cold and corrupted and isolated and try to be an independent republic, But liberty to be loved on the surface is worthless, The sacrifice of revolution with no purpose
by ImmortalTechnique92 on Dec 15, 2010 11:08 PM EST reply actions
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