Athletic Commission Tall Tales Come Back to Bite Chael Sonnen in Nevada
In a recent administrative hearing in California, UFC star Chael Sonnen was desperate to get out from under a year long suspension, imposed when his testosterone levels were sky high for his fight with Anderson Silva at UFC 117. Sonnen's defense was that he was under the long term care of a doctor to help regulate the levels of testosterone in his body. He claimed that he had informed the California Commission of his condition before his fight with Yushin Okami in 2009 and that he had also spoken to Nevada State Athletic Commission Executive Director Keith Kizer. Dropping Kizer's name appears it may have been a big mistake.
The California Commission, seemingly tired of hearing competing testimony in a complicated case, simply reduced Sonnen's suspension in half and called it a day. It doesn't look like the Team Quest fighter will have that kind of speedy resolution in Nevada. According to Dave Meltzer in the Wrestling Observer and online reports from Heavy.com, Kizer was not amused - and is going to make it hard for Sonnen when his California suspension is up in 2011. According to the Observer (subscription required):
He said that if Sonnen, whose license in Nevada expires at the end of the year, wants to get licensed to fight in 2011 after his California suspension expires, he won’t get the usual administrative approval. He said that Sonnen is going to have to go before the commission, explain why he made the statements about Kizer and him talking, explain why he claimed he had used testosterone since 2008 but never listed it on his forms, as well as how he would have passed the tests...
Regarding any rumors of Sonnen as a coach of the next season of the Ultimate Fighter reality show, I don’t even know if there would be anything to those rumors, because the timing wouldn’t be good. Even if UFC wanted it, there would be licensing issues. The season starts in February. TUF coaches have to get second’s licenses because the show is filmed in Las Vegas. Sonnen is on suspension in California through March and Nevada recognizes that suspension. Sonnen would have to get specific commission approval to get the second’s license and the his suspension in California not having ended would play a part in the hearing he’d have to go through. There is no hard and fast rule like he couldn’t be a second because of a suspension in another state as a fighter, but it would not be a rubber stamp procedure either.
Sonnen spins a good tale. It helped him cloud the minds of the California Commission, a jedi-like power making it clear to them 'this wasn't the suspension they were looking for.' But it has cost him in Nevada. A better strategy might have been to simply claim confusion over the California policy. After all, the Commission members themselves seemed confused about their own policies. Throwing Kizer under the bus was taking things a step too far. And while MMA fans seem the forgiving sort, Kizer may not be. It will be interesting to see what happens the next time he wants to fight in Nevada.
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Commission members in California don’t understand any of the policies. It’s comical to hear them discuss policies during hearing when one member questions the logic of another, and they basically don’t know how to resolve the issue, thus a fighter gets a reduced suspension. James Toney bitched at Armando Garcia for an entire hearing, then gets a reduced suspension? What a joke.
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"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein
Yea that hearing was a catastrofuck
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There was one commission member who understood
and another who semi-understood
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by S.C. Michaelson on Dec 10, 2010 2:30 PM EST up reply actions
I don’t know — I think Sonnen is a great boxer, don’t you?
by Beau Dure on Dec 10, 2010 2:35 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
This just in!
You now have to have a license for a license to breathe air in Nevada!!
You know Joe, Brandon Vera is considered to be a Heavyweight George St.Pierre because he just comes, comes, and comes again... -Mike Goldberg, UFC 57
Cheick Kongo looks like a cross between Evander Holyfield and pop singer Seal!
Melvin Guilard looks like a little Kevin Randelman!
-Mike "All black people look alike to me" Goldberg, UFC 62/64
Jedi mind trick?
It’s not like the CSAC are the strong minded…

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by Zak Woods on Dec 10, 2010 1:26 PM EST reply actions 4 recs
I really hope justice is served in this.
It’s unfair to opposing fighters, fans, and the sport to know that someone can get off without any reprimand or punishment for their dishonesty.
Semper Fi
PREDICTION for 2010-2011 NFL Season: "The England Patriots will finish 8-8 plus or minus 1" ~8/13/10 1230p
"BRING GERALD HARRIS BACK TO THE UFC!!!"
Without any reprimand or punishment? He was suspended for 6 months… isn’t that a punishment? Alves was suspended 8 months for using a drug that totally gave him an advantage during the fight. 6 months for screwing up on a few forms sounds more than fair for Sonnen.
implying testosterone doesn't give an advantage in a fight
lulz
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by Cory Braiterman on Dec 10, 2010 1:30 PM EST up reply actions
Dan Henderson and Todd Duffee allegedly did the same thing as Chael and are free and clear. Alves used something illegal, Chael failed to mention his situation on his forms. Big difference.
by AintNoSunshine on Dec 10, 2010 1:52 PM EST up reply actions
It's illegal if you don't mention it on the forms.
So Chael did use something illegal.
He is still in violation
"Sometimes I wonder if the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on, or by imbeciles who really mean it."
-Mark Twain
"If I tell you I'm good, you would probably think I'm boasting. If I tell you I'm no good, you know I'm lying..."
-Bruce Lee
by The American Ronin on Dec 10, 2010 2:05 PM EST up reply actions
Agreed 100%. But his breaking fo the rules would have been perfectly fine had he done what Hendo and Duffee did and just mention it on the forms. Alves regardless if he did so or not would still be in the wrong.
by AintNoSunshine on Dec 10, 2010 2:14 PM EST up reply actions
But his breaking fo the rules would have been perfectly fine had he done what Hendo and Duffee did and just mention it on the forms
This isn’t accurate. Sonnen did mention using testosterone on the forms, he didn’t get a TUE to use it.
"Don’t quote old fucks to me" – Brent Brookhouse
by Chris Barton on Dec 10, 2010 2:15 PM EST up reply actions
Right, I am sorry on that one. I always seem to assume the way it was first reported. You are correct
by AintNoSunshine on Dec 10, 2010 2:23 PM EST up reply actions
If he had followed protocal
and gotten the proper TUEC (therapeutic use exemption certificate) then this whole thing would be a non-issue as he would have passed his test.
"Sometimes I wonder if the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on, or by imbeciles who really mean it."
-Mark Twain
"If I tell you I'm good, you would probably think I'm boasting. If I tell you I'm no good, you know I'm lying..."
-Bruce Lee
by The American Ronin on Dec 10, 2010 2:20 PM EST up reply actions
WHich suggests that he probably couldn't have.
… Or, his reasoning was invalid.
Semper Fi
PREDICTION for 2010-2011 NFL Season: "The England Patriots will finish 8-8 plus or minus 1" ~8/13/10 1230p
"BRING GERALD HARRIS BACK TO THE UFC!!!"
by ChicagoMarine on Dec 10, 2010 2:25 PM EST up reply actions
If his lab test support the diagnosis, and the doctor is at huge risk prescribing AAS without that due to the Anabolic Steroid Control Act, then obtaining the TUEC should have been reasonably straightforward.
Even WADA allows TUECs for TRT, and they are the “gold standard” for testing standards and protocol.
"Sometimes I wonder if the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on, or by imbeciles who really mean it."
-Mark Twain
"If I tell you I'm good, you would probably think I'm boasting. If I tell you I'm no good, you know I'm lying..."
-Bruce Lee
by The American Ronin on Dec 10, 2010 2:30 PM EST up reply actions
But their standards are very very rigorous
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by S.C. Michaelson on Dec 10, 2010 2:31 PM EST up reply actions
True
I couldn’t find a link, so I emailed Kid Nate a pdf of their requirements a day or two ago.
"Sometimes I wonder if the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on, or by imbeciles who really mean it."
-Mark Twain
"If I tell you I'm good, you would probably think I'm boasting. If I tell you I'm no good, you know I'm lying..."
-Bruce Lee
by The American Ronin on Dec 10, 2010 2:33 PM EST up reply actions
Still have it?
I’d love to see that. I asked around for some info along those lines a few days ago and didn’t have time to nudge people again.
I do
Send me an email and I’ll send it to you.
"Sometimes I wonder if the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on, or by imbeciles who really mean it."
-Mark Twain
"If I tell you I'm good, you would probably think I'm boasting. If I tell you I'm no good, you know I'm lying..."
-Bruce Lee
by The American Ronin on Dec 10, 2010 2:38 PM EST up reply actions
Well
the doctor had no idea what other sorts of substances Chael could have taken that would lower is T levels, which is fine since it’s not really his field, but it really shows how easy he would be to run game on.
"Don’t quote old fucks to me" – Brent Brookhouse
by Chris Barton on Dec 10, 2010 2:41 PM EST up reply actions
It would take very specialized testing
to find out if he was deliberately gaming the system by artificially lowering his levels just for the 2 test used to diagnosis.
I have seen it done (the lowering part), although it is taxing on the body short-term and takes some pretty specialized and eclectic knowledge (not to be found on google, that’s for sure) to be able to do it.
Part of the reason I have argued for out of contest testing for those on TRT is that it could not be realistically faked every 1-4 weeks without considerable consequences (that would outweigh the benefits).
"Sometimes I wonder if the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on, or by imbeciles who really mean it."
-Mark Twain
"If I tell you I'm good, you would probably think I'm boasting. If I tell you I'm no good, you know I'm lying..."
-Bruce Lee
by The American Ronin on Dec 10, 2010 2:47 PM EST up reply actions
Chael denied even using roids/test boosters, then he created his “situation” out of thin air after realizing he could use it as a legit defense. The guy’s a liar through and through — the guy is a politician and it shows, dude knows how to spin a situation.
His story is shaky.
I just feel that dishonesty should be punished and far too many times we are seeing in society people falling on the “ignorance” claim and I just don’t appreciate it. Accountability is a must in any society.
Semper Fi
PREDICTION for 2010-2011 NFL Season: "The England Patriots will finish 8-8 plus or minus 1" ~8/13/10 1230p
"BRING GERALD HARRIS BACK TO THE UFC!!!"
by ChicagoMarine on Dec 10, 2010 2:27 PM EST up reply actions
To clarify.
Thiago Alves was suspended for use of a diuretic. For an advantage at cutting weight. And might actually prove a disadvantage during the fight.
It’s a huge advantage for the fight itself… without it, he either has to suffer a lot more during his weight cutting and performs like crap, or he missed weight altogether and risk getting cut. It’s arguably a much bigger performance enhancement than whatever Sonnen did.
Disagree.
Anabolic steroids (including testosterone) are taken to enhance muscle development, strength, or endurance. They do so directly by increasing the muscles’ protein synthesis. As a result, muscle fibers become larger and repair faster than the average person’s.
Diuretics elevate the rate of urination, so Alves might have taken it to cut weight or to expend something already in his system. That wasn’t determined.
That being said, the allegations against Sonnen would mean that he obtained a unfair advantage against his opponent REGARDLESS of which is worse between Alves or Sonnen. It’s wrong!
Semper Fi
PREDICTION for 2010-2011 NFL Season: "The England Patriots will finish 8-8 plus or minus 1" ~8/13/10 1230p
"BRING GERALD HARRIS BACK TO THE UFC!!!"
by ChicagoMarine on Dec 10, 2010 2:23 PM EST up reply actions
That's what I think it was.
Similar to Pat and Kevin Wiliams of the Minnesota Vikings and the case against them of using a diuretic.
Semper Fi
PREDICTION for 2010-2011 NFL Season: "The England Patriots will finish 8-8 plus or minus 1" ~8/13/10 1230p
"BRING GERALD HARRIS BACK TO THE UFC!!!"
by ChicagoMarine on Dec 10, 2010 2:28 PM EST up reply actions
No,
they were trying to make weight due to a contractual clause.
"Sometimes I wonder if the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on, or by imbeciles who really mean it."
-Mark Twain
"If I tell you I'm good, you would probably think I'm boasting. If I tell you I'm no good, you know I'm lying..."
-Bruce Lee
by The American Ronin on Dec 10, 2010 2:32 PM EST up reply actions
Perhaps...
… That was never determined.
And is hard to do so.
Semper Fi
PREDICTION for 2010-2011 NFL Season: "The England Patriots will finish 8-8 plus or minus 1" ~8/13/10 1230p
"BRING GERALD HARRIS BACK TO THE UFC!!!"
by ChicagoMarine on Dec 10, 2010 2:54 PM EST up reply actions
Diuretics will help mask certain substances, but not steroids with modern testing methods.
And, since the diuretics themselves are tested for…
"Sometimes I wonder if the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on, or by imbeciles who really mean it."
-Mark Twain
"If I tell you I'm good, you would probably think I'm boasting. If I tell you I'm no good, you know I'm lying..."
-Bruce Lee
by The American Ronin on Dec 10, 2010 2:59 PM EST up reply actions
That doesn't work at all
for steroid testing, and hasn’t for a long time, if it ever really did.
"Sometimes I wonder if the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on, or by imbeciles who really mean it."
-Mark Twain
"If I tell you I'm good, you would probably think I'm boasting. If I tell you I'm no good, you know I'm lying..."
-Bruce Lee
by The American Ronin on Dec 10, 2010 2:32 PM EST up reply actions
Diuretics also mask steroid usage
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by S.C. Michaelson on Dec 10, 2010 2:32 PM EST up reply actions
6 Months is similar to the amount of time that a fighter is suspended after he has a fight to allow healing.
It also gives a fighter MORE time to take up the same questionable tactics that landed him in trouble to begin with.
Semper Fi
PREDICTION for 2010-2011 NFL Season: "The England Patriots will finish 8-8 plus or minus 1" ~8/13/10 1230p
"BRING GERALD HARRIS BACK TO THE UFC!!!"
by ChicagoMarine on Dec 10, 2010 2:17 PM EST up reply actions
Here’s a fine example of a bureaucrat abusing his power to get revenge on someone…
The good news is that Sonnen won’t be wasted on TUF and might be back fighting sooner rather than later. He’d be a nice addition to the April 30th show in Toronto!
so uh....
someone calls you out in public for the world to see on something that apparently is not true… and you wouldn’t want to draw the line in the sand?
c’mon now.
http://mixedmartialartsblogger.wordpress.com/
by Cory Braiterman on Dec 10, 2010 1:28 PM EST up reply actions
Kizer should sue Sonnen as a private matter if he wants to get back at him… making Sonnen’s life difficult to get back at him is cowardly considering Kizer pretty much has final say in the granting of his fight license in Nevada. He’ll basically black mail Sonnen into admitting he lied about his discussions with Kizer in order to give him his fight license again.
You ever heard the saying
Quit while your ahead?
Whatever. Just ban me. You're all gay. - Josh Grant
Thisredengine and Marta Gallo happily married June 2012
i don't think he was ever ahead to begin with
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by Cory Braiterman on Dec 10, 2010 1:34 PM EST up reply actions
are you Chael Sonnen?
or do you just work for him?
Follow me on Twitter @KidNate
by Nate Wilcox on Dec 10, 2010 1:35 PM EST up reply actions 3 recs
Woah
You really got him there….
Can we just count this as breaking rule #4?
Whatever. Just ban me. You're all gay. - Josh Grant
Thisredengine and Marta Gallo happily married June 2012
by II SMASH II on Dec 10, 2010 1:38 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
the "i know you are but what am i"
comeback is returning. Pee Wee has a broadway play now, dontcha know.
http://mixedmartialartsblogger.wordpress.com/
by Cory Braiterman on Dec 10, 2010 1:39 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
It's implied in the small print under rule #7
Triteness and unoriginality will get you nowhere unless you make pop music.
by Cunny on Dec 10, 2010 1:56 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
For starters...
When you come to my house, I’m going to tell you to take off your shoes. I, however, am allowed to wear my shoes in my house if I see fit. Bloody Elbow is our house. We can do whatever we want, you can’t.
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by Brent Brookhouse on Dec 10, 2010 2:18 PM EST up reply actions
Translation:
Fair fucking warning…
"Sometimes I wonder if the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on, or by imbeciles who really mean it."
-Mark Twain
"If I tell you I'm good, you would probably think I'm boasting. If I tell you I'm no good, you know I'm lying..."
-Bruce Lee
by The American Ronin on Dec 10, 2010 2:22 PM EST up reply actions
Understood. But as long as I don’t resort to personal insults, can’t I just return the favor to Kid Nate, or you, or anyone else on staff, when they try to insult me?
Huh?
You’re “returning the favor” of something you imply as an “insult”…
… But, then say that you should be able to make a snide response to someone as long as it is not a “personal insult” in WHICH— you considered to be an insult?
Semper Fi
PREDICTION for 2010-2011 NFL Season: "The England Patriots will finish 8-8 plus or minus 1" ~8/13/10 1230p
"BRING GERALD HARRIS BACK TO THE UFC!!!"
by ChicagoMarine on Dec 10, 2010 2:33 PM EST up reply actions
Short answer?
No
"Don’t quote old fucks to me" – Brent Brookhouse
by Chris Barton on Dec 10, 2010 2:43 PM EST up reply actions
I hate you all
Luke: What was our best moment?
Nate: When I banned Subo?
Luke: That was a good one.
When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift
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by Derek Suboticki on Dec 10, 2010 9:19 PM EST up reply actions
He's not talking about
That kind of head…
"Sometimes I wonder if the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on, or by imbeciles who really mean it."
-Mark Twain
"If I tell you I'm good, you would probably think I'm boasting. If I tell you I'm no good, you know I'm lying..."
-Bruce Lee
by The American Ronin on Dec 10, 2010 1:36 PM EST up reply actions
be sure to tip your waitresses
Have you ever noticed that anybody driving slower than you is an idiot, and anyone going faster than you is a maniac?
George Carlin
This ^
Semper Fi
PREDICTION for 2010-2011 NFL Season: "The England Patriots will finish 8-8 plus or minus 1" ~8/13/10 1230p
"BRING GERALD HARRIS BACK TO THE UFC!!!"
by ChicagoMarine on Dec 10, 2010 2:29 PM EST up reply actions
lol eff that
he needs to quit while he’s behind.
"We have all had to watch Brock Lesnar fart around. That guy is an embarrassment. God damn, you get to hand pick his opponents for him for a while then someone who is a half way decent athlete comes along and hits him once and he pisses his pants and runs. If he wasn't in a cage he would still be running."
-Don Frye
Chael is that you?
Semper Fi
PREDICTION for 2010-2011 NFL Season: "The England Patriots will finish 8-8 plus or minus 1" ~8/13/10 1230p
"BRING GERALD HARRIS BACK TO THE UFC!!!"
by ChicagoMarine on Dec 10, 2010 2:29 PM EST up reply actions
What?
He lied to the AC about his PED use. This isn’t abusing power, it’s using power correctly.
"Don’t quote old fucks to me" – Brent Brookhouse
by Chris Barton on Dec 10, 2010 1:29 PM EST up reply actions
He didn’t lie about his TRT treatments, he was confused on the proper procedures to disclose them. Remember?
What Kizer is doing here has nothing to do with the use of PED’s… it has everything to do with personal vendeta against Sonnen. Everything.
confused
cheating
lying
who knows which it is
except we do know lies were told. other than that, the other two are ambiguous
http://mixedmartialartsblogger.wordpress.com/
by Cory Braiterman on Dec 10, 2010 1:35 PM EST up reply actions
What were the lies, exactly? And who told them? How do we know Kizer isn’t the one mis-remembering things?
we'll start with
“that was some hispanic guy” and work our way down from there.
Lies were told either by Kizer or by Sonnen. Given the current track record, Kizer is more believable to me. Not saying Kizer might not be the one lying, but i’m willing to call a rose a rose at this point.
http://mixedmartialartsblogger.wordpress.com/
by Cory Braiterman on Dec 10, 2010 1:38 PM EST up reply actions
So you’re going to use Sonnen’s trash-talking to sell fights as a basis for Sonnen’s always lying? Seriously? All Sonnen was doing was overcompensating for Anderson Silva and kicked up his trash-talking a notch or two. Big deal. I thought anyone had figured that one out by now. Guess not.
again…
lying
cheating
confusion
now trash talk… all ambiguities for this conversation. a lie is a lie whether you mean it to be hype or trying to save your ass in front of an athletic commision
http://mixedmartialartsblogger.wordpress.com/
by Cory Braiterman on Dec 10, 2010 1:53 PM EST up reply actions
Kos said before his first fight with GSP that he’d knock him out in the first round. Didn’t happen. Does that make him a lier? Of course not, it was trash talk, pure and simple.
which is 100% different
than “i didn’t say that [Lance Armstrong gave himself cancer], that was some hispanic guy”.
try again
http://mixedmartialartsblogger.wordpress.com/
by Cory Braiterman on Dec 10, 2010 1:56 PM EST up reply actions
Have you heard of Stephen Colbert? You do know that whatever he says is under character right? Same with Sonnen. He’s created a character of himself, someone who exagerates everything in order to make everyone care about him. And it’s working a million mile an hour.
thats a better example
but still not applicable. and certainly not applicable when you’re in front of lawyers who will determine whether you will fight or not.
Colbert works for Comedy Central. Sonnen works for the UFC. can’t be a liar/prankster/jokester/whatever you want to label it in the latter capacity
http://mixedmartialartsblogger.wordpress.com/
by Cory Braiterman on Dec 10, 2010 2:00 PM EST up reply actions
I’m saying everyone distrusts Sonnen because he’s said ‘lies’ while playing this character he’s created.
and quite presumably after he was done playing the role
by F'n Clownshoes on Dec 10, 2010 2:04 PM EST up reply actions
Maybe, maybe not. But everyone’s basing their hate and automatic disbelief of whatever Sonnen says because of what he did while playing heel.
i don't hate him
i am upset that he either cheated of massively screwed up something so simple as his paperwork, thus putting a black eye on the sport I love. he’ll not get the benefit of the doubt from me. his Character, be it his moral fiber or his heel role has no leg to stand on
by F'n Clownshoes on Dec 10, 2010 2:15 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
This ^
Semper Fi
PREDICTION for 2010-2011 NFL Season: "The England Patriots will finish 8-8 plus or minus 1" ~8/13/10 1230p
"BRING GERALD HARRIS BACK TO THE UFC!!!"
by ChicagoMarine on Dec 10, 2010 2:35 PM EST up reply actions
nope
your idea and argument has no basis in reality, his character and himself are one in the same
by F'n Clownshoes on Dec 10, 2010 2:00 PM EST up reply actions
unless you know the man personally
you can’t tell me what he is or isn’t “playing”. i understand the role of a heel, i’m just not sure that any real deliniation between the character and the man exists.
by F'n Clownshoes on Dec 10, 2010 2:30 PM EST up reply actions
The hispanic guy was totally unrelated to trash talking Silva.
That was Sonnen unnecessarily getting on a soapbox and then lying about what he said and then who said it when confronted with evidence to the contrary.
Trash talking and lying are two different things.
Exaggerating or distorting personal opinion in not the same as falsely-accusing a government official of approving PEDs.
Jab, jab, towards, short, fierce.
And here we are again with someone finding Sonnen guilty of something without having a clue what he’s talking about. How do you know Sonnen is ‘falsely-accusing’ a government official? We know for a fact that government officials never lie to cover their own asses, right? Let’s wait to see how it plays out before we go and find someone guilty, alright?
In a court of law, yes.
This is not that, and the final decision in this matter is not ours.
You don’t trust dishonest people as a general rule of thumb. Chael is a fast talker who will spin whatever story he likes at the time. He lied before the Silva fight, he lied during it (at the tap), he’s lied about what happened at the public commission hearing…
The man is is just untrustworthy. He may somehow end up being vindicated in this case, but you’ll have to understand the widespread skepticism regarding his honesty.
Perhaps, but it doesn't. It never has and it never will.
Whether you have a history of dishonesty is a factor in a court of law, and it’s a bigger factor in the court of public opinion. Chael has shown himself to be a liar and people don’t trust liars.
hahahaha
Neat! Your opinion is that people should not make up their minds on the evidence provided. I hope you apply that at all points in your life. Especially when you’re hanging out with Chael.
Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
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by Brent Brookhouse on Dec 10, 2010 2:22 PM EST up reply actions
You don’t think something’s wrong when everyone that’s against Sonnen on this matter hated him well before any of this started?
They didn't.
They loved or hated him before the fight. He earned the people’s respect during the fight and became a sympathetic figure when the win was snatched from him at the last minute.
He lost the respect when he popped positive, and now he’s being dishonest after that.
by Cunny on Dec 10, 2010 2:30 PM EST up reply actions 3 recs
THIS ^^^^^^^!!!!
Semper Fi
PREDICTION for 2010-2011 NFL Season: "The England Patriots will finish 8-8 plus or minus 1" ~8/13/10 1230p
"BRING GERALD HARRIS BACK TO THE UFC!!!"
by ChicagoMarine on Dec 10, 2010 2:36 PM EST up reply actions
But, He did say that he was going to beat Andersons ass the
whole fight…
I would have rather been Chael Sonnen after that fight than Anderson Silva…
Anderson Hurt more after that fight than Forrest Griffin after the Silva Griffin fight…
Either the win was snatched from him at the last minute
Or he choked because ONCE AGAIN he could not defend against a triangle choke (albeit in this case, more of a triangle armbar, since as the Gracie brothers noted, he DID defend against the triangle choke properly, but left his arm in there which led to the armbar).
That's not the point.
He was clearly winning the fight and lost at the eleventh hour. How he lost is immaterial.
If this were someone without a history of dishonorable behavior
A Shogun perhaps, or Cain, or Jon Jones, I think people would be far more inclined to give them the benefit of the doubt than they do someone like Sonnen.
"Sometimes I wonder if the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on, or by imbeciles who really mean it."
-Mark Twain
"If I tell you I'm good, you would probably think I'm boasting. If I tell you I'm no good, you know I'm lying..."
-Bruce Lee
by The American Ronin on Dec 10, 2010 2:25 PM EST up reply actions
This is true
But Sonnen should have known this would happen, unless he has cell to cell records to back up what he says and wants to risk taking this to the mat so to speak.
Any official in Kizer’s position can always find something in the rules to screw you on, if they really put their mind to it.
"Sometimes I wonder if the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on, or by imbeciles who really mean it."
-Mark Twain
"If I tell you I'm good, you would probably think I'm boasting. If I tell you I'm no good, you know I'm lying..."
-Bruce Lee
by The American Ronin on Dec 10, 2010 1:37 PM EST up reply actions
Sonnen’s pretty smart. I wouldn’t be surprised if he came out with cell phone records showing he’s talked with Kizer in the past, or someone really close to Kizer, at the very least. That would certainly blow a hole in Kizer’s “I’ve never spoken with Sonnen, ever.” defense.
I can’t believe he would have said what he did without it at least being partially true, but if he tries to play hardball, one way or another they will burn him to the ground.
"Sometimes I wonder if the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on, or by imbeciles who really mean it."
-Mark Twain
"If I tell you I'm good, you would probably think I'm boasting. If I tell you I'm no good, you know I'm lying..."
-Bruce Lee
by The American Ronin on Dec 10, 2010 1:56 PM EST up reply actions
What happens if Sonnen brings proof that he did have discussions with Kizer? What then? That would imply Kizer’s also a liar. Let’s and see how it evolves, that’s all I’m saying.
Unless he has something that
unequivocally proves it happened like he says, he will lose no matter what.
And even if he does, and he prevails, he loses in the end and will be persona non grata in US MMA.
"Sometimes I wonder if the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on, or by imbeciles who really mean it."
-Mark Twain
"If I tell you I'm good, you would probably think I'm boasting. If I tell you I'm no good, you know I'm lying..."
-Bruce Lee
by The American Ronin on Dec 10, 2010 2:04 PM EST up reply actions
If he comes out with proof that he’s ever talked with Kizer, no matter about what, he’s proven that Kizer is a big liar that can’t be trusted. Anything that Kizer after that will have to be questionned.
It appears that you my friend
have clearly never had dealings with a regulatory authority.
Your points are valid, but at this point, whether Sonnen is telling the truth about Kizer or not makes no difference in the ultimate outcome.
"Sometimes I wonder if the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on, or by imbeciles who really mean it."
-Mark Twain
"If I tell you I'm good, you would probably think I'm boasting. If I tell you I'm no good, you know I'm lying..."
-Bruce Lee
by The American Ronin on Dec 10, 2010 2:08 PM EST up reply actions
Kizer might very well look very bad in all this. He’s looking very vengeful and vindictive because he didn’t like something big bad Sonnen told about him.
No he isn't
He’s looking like a competent head of an AC wondering why an athlete would lie about being allowed to use a PED in his state.
"Don’t quote old fucks to me" – Brent Brookhouse
by Chris Barton on Dec 10, 2010 2:13 PM EST up reply actions
A competent head of an AC might be pushing it… he’s the one who thinks judging is fine in MMA, remember?
dude, give it up. do you know kizer or sonnen personally? probably not.
youre totally willing to back up sonnen (who has proven that in the very least, he doesnt think too much of honesty) and you are assuming alot about kizer, who before last week you probably didnt even know existed.
by Meth Wyzzyrd on Dec 10, 2010 8:26 PM EST up reply actions
I agree it looks bad
And frankly I am surprised Kizer spoke publicly in the manner he did. Hubris perhaps? Honestly, if Sonnen does have solid evidence, Kizer’s public words may come back to haunt him, given the high profile nature of this.
"Sometimes I wonder if the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on, or by imbeciles who really mean it."
-Mark Twain
"If I tell you I'm good, you would probably think I'm boasting. If I tell you I'm no good, you know I'm lying..."
-Bruce Lee
by The American Ronin on Dec 10, 2010 2:14 PM EST up reply actions
He didn’t lie about his TRT treatments
Sure, but he certainly may have lied as to WHY he is having TRT treatments. Since there is zero evidence he actually needs TRT medically.
This has everything to do with his PED use. He used a PED and lied to get out of it, which didn’t work. When the time comes for him to get a new license his lying about PED use SHOULD come back to haunt him.
"Don’t quote old fucks to me" – Brent Brookhouse
by Chris Barton on Dec 10, 2010 1:43 PM EST up reply actions
Again, you’re playing doctor, I see? Who was the guy Sonnen brought at the hearing to defend his need for TRT?
some dude who could barely answer without stumbling over his own words
http://mixedmartialartsblogger.wordpress.com/
by Cory Braiterman on Dec 10, 2010 1:54 PM EST up reply actions
And again
that doctor didn’t provide any evidence of his claim. It’s pretty simple.
"Don’t quote old fucks to me" – Brent Brookhouse
by Chris Barton on Dec 10, 2010 2:11 PM EST up reply actions
Appeal to authority
doesn’t work for me. Sorry.
"Don’t quote old fucks to me" – Brent Brookhouse
by Chris Barton on Dec 10, 2010 2:44 PM EST up reply actions
and the documents that actually could prove this one way or the other
that the doctor is supposed to have as part of Chael’s medical history (the one thing that could have exonerated Sonnen), were “misplaced” by the good doctor. LOL
When I'm on the mic it goes down, CINTRON
-Joell Ortiz
by The Lethal Haze on Dec 10, 2010 6:58 PM EST up reply actions
He was going to be in violation regardless
No documentation would have saved him, although perhaps a completed TUEC package with a fax time stamp would have gotten it reduced a little more.
The bottom line – without a TUEC it is, by definition, a violation.
"Sometimes I wonder if the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on, or by imbeciles who really mean it."
-Mark Twain
"If I tell you I'm good, you would probably think I'm boasting. If I tell you I'm no good, you know I'm lying..."
-Bruce Lee
by The American Ronin on Dec 10, 2010 7:58 PM EST up reply actions
With the Anabolic Steroid Control Act, the only way they can be legally prescribed is with proper testing to establish a medical need. No doctor (not even that one) would be foolish enough to go into a high profile public administrative hearing without being on arguably solid ground.
Now whether Sonnen took steps to deliberately skew the initial test results, or if they came as a result of previous AAS use, I can’t say.
"Sometimes I wonder if the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on, or by imbeciles who really mean it."
-Mark Twain
"If I tell you I'm good, you would probably think I'm boasting. If I tell you I'm no good, you know I'm lying..."
-Bruce Lee
by The American Ronin on Dec 10, 2010 2:00 PM EST up reply actions
Right
and since no evidence was provided to establish why he needed TRT it’s a pretty glaring problem. Sonnen being on TRT for a while, allegedly, without getting a TUE from any AC magnifies the issue.
"Don’t quote old fucks to me" – Brent Brookhouse
by Chris Barton on Dec 10, 2010 2:13 PM EST up reply actions
As I mentioned elsewhere
IF Sonnen and/or his doctor lied about having a legitimate basis, they should be tried for perjury along with their respective licensing issues that will result.
While I agree much about this seems peculiar at best (dose – “one shot”), there is simply no evidence shown yet that proves anything either way, other than he had a high T/E ratio and he had synthetic test in his system.
"Sometimes I wonder if the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on, or by imbeciles who really mean it."
-Mark Twain
"If I tell you I'm good, you would probably think I'm boasting. If I tell you I'm no good, you know I'm lying..."
-Bruce Lee
by The American Ronin on Dec 10, 2010 2:17 PM EST up reply actions
The evidence for either side is circumstantial. I find more weight with Sonnen never having a TUE and, allegedly, lying about the NSAC than in anything else.
"Don’t quote old fucks to me" – Brent Brookhouse
by Chris Barton on Dec 10, 2010 2:21 PM EST up reply actions
As an overlooked aside,
Shouldn’t Sonnen, who while a douche seems like a reasonably smart guy, or his manager, made damn sure the paperwork was exactly in order? You know, like everyone else does?
Any info out there on how many TUECs CSAC and/or NSAC have issued to MMA fighters? Not just for TRT, for anything?
"Sometimes I wonder if the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on, or by imbeciles who really mean it."
-Mark Twain
"If I tell you I'm good, you would probably think I'm boasting. If I tell you I'm no good, you know I'm lying..."
-Bruce Lee
by The American Ronin on Dec 10, 2010 2:28 PM EST up reply actions
That’s how I feel about it (re: getting a TUEC). If I’m using a substance that I know is legal, but only borderline-legal, I’d make damn sure that everything is 100% cleared.
None more gangster.
"What if I told you yut yut Devil Dog Semper Fi oohrah?"
Oddly enough
One of the things that actually makes me think Sonnen did have a legitimate case is the fact that he took an injection the day before the fight.
Had he stopped 3-4 weeks out, his T/E would likely be under 4:1 and he would have never been flagged for further testing (where the presence of synthetic testosterone was found).
"Sometimes I wonder if the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on, or by imbeciles who really mean it."
-Mark Twain
"If I tell you I'm good, you would probably think I'm boasting. If I tell you I'm no good, you know I'm lying..."
-Bruce Lee
by The American Ronin on Dec 10, 2010 2:37 PM EST up reply actions
the fact that he took an injection the day before the fight.
I’ve been trying to figure this one out myself. Unfortunately, we’ll never know and there are just to many possible answers.
"Don’t quote old fucks to me" – Brent Brookhouse
by Chris Barton on Dec 10, 2010 2:47 PM EST up reply actions
I think we will ultimately find out
this one is just too public to ignore. Surely the commission’s physician will take a close look at his lab work and related materials before approving a TUEC, and if Sonnen simply stops using it, that is a defacto admission of guilt because, generally speaking, that is a life-long problem.
"Sometimes I wonder if the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on, or by imbeciles who really mean it."
-Mark Twain
"If I tell you I'm good, you would probably think I'm boasting. If I tell you I'm no good, you know I'm lying..."
-Bruce Lee
by The American Ronin on Dec 10, 2010 3:02 PM EST up reply actions
Sonnen can’t just stop. His doctor is on record as saying it would be life threatening if he wasn’t using.
When it is for legitimate medical reasons
It is almost always for life.
"Sometimes I wonder if the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on, or by imbeciles who really mean it."
-Mark Twain
"If I tell you I'm good, you would probably think I'm boasting. If I tell you I'm no good, you know I'm lying..."
-Bruce Lee
by The American Ronin on Dec 10, 2010 5:35 PM EST up reply actions
Good point
There is just so many odd things going on with that story. I just get a “smoke/fire” vibe. IIRC, Lindland has aTUE. How did that conversation never come up?
"Don’t quote old fucks to me" – Brent Brookhouse
by Chris Barton on Dec 10, 2010 2:45 PM EST up reply actions
Here’s a fine example of a bureaucrat abusing his power to get revenge on someone…
These guys have all the power in the world within their little fiefdoms, Sonnen was a total fool to say that, even if it were true.
Anyone with basic knowledge of how the real world works could see this coming as surely as day follows night.
"Sometimes I wonder if the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on, or by imbeciles who really mean it."
-Mark Twain
"If I tell you I'm good, you would probably think I'm boasting. If I tell you I'm no good, you know I'm lying..."
-Bruce Lee
by The American Ronin on Dec 10, 2010 1:35 PM EST up reply actions
It's got nothing to do with Kizer at this point.
It’s in the news that Sonnen allegedly informed “someone/anyone” from the NSAC, about approval of TRT. That alone is enough to instigate an investigation by said commission. Chael’s really done it this time.
It certainly looks like he screwed the pooch this time. If he really did have conversations with Kizer, a public apology from Sonnen may suffice if he doesn’t push it any further.
"Sometimes I wonder if the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on, or by imbeciles who really mean it."
-Mark Twain
"If I tell you I'm good, you would probably think I'm boasting. If I tell you I'm no good, you know I'm lying..."
-Bruce Lee
by The American Ronin on Dec 10, 2010 2:18 PM EST up reply actions
From the sound of things Kizer isn’t going to let Chael of easy which means he won’t let him do TUF. Which means no Sonnen/Wandy TUF. Which probably means Dana will book a Silva/Sonnen rematch instead and Okami will be left out in the cold.
or
just have wand/sonnen fight each other while okami gets his rematch. Then in fall of ’11 the winner of that tilt gets the winner of the okami/belfort/silva trio.
http://mixedmartialartsblogger.wordpress.com/
by Cory Braiterman on Dec 10, 2010 1:30 PM EST up reply actions
Talk about having a man by the short and curlies

http://mixedmartialartsblogger.wordpress.com/
by Cory Braiterman on Dec 10, 2010 1:28 PM EST reply actions 3 recs
lmao
“the short and curlies”
"We have all had to watch Brock Lesnar fart around. That guy is an embarrassment. God damn, you get to hand pick his opponents for him for a while then someone who is a half way decent athlete comes along and hits him once and he pisses his pants and runs. If he wasn't in a cage he would still be running."
-Don Frye
explain why he claimed he had used testosterone since 2008 but never listed it on his forms, as well as how he would have passed the tests…
As for the “passed the tests” portion of this, because there is no out-of-competition testing, only the T/E ratio test, if he doesn’t take an injection within 3-4 weeks of the fight, he would be clear.
Not sure if CSAC test for it, but if he added hCG (like Cushing did) to stimulate natural testosterone production, then while his actual testosterone level would be higher (blood test only), his T/E ratio would actually be lower.
"Sometimes I wonder if the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on, or by imbeciles who really mean it."
-Mark Twain
"If I tell you I'm good, you would probably think I'm boasting. If I tell you I'm no good, you know I'm lying..."
-Bruce Lee
by The American Ronin on Dec 10, 2010 1:30 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
Also, I keep reading this places and we have no way of knowing if it is true.
imposed when his testosterone levels were sky high for his fight with Anderson Silva at UFC 117.
The only thing that was sky high was his T/E ratio (which BTW the commission kept telling SC Michaelson was a “testosterone to estrogen” ratio). We neither know nor can infer anything about his actual levels from this (blood test only).
"Sometimes I wonder if the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on, or by imbeciles who really mean it."
-Mark Twain
"If I tell you I'm good, you would probably think I'm boasting. If I tell you I'm no good, you know I'm lying..."
-Bruce Lee
by The American Ronin on Dec 10, 2010 1:32 PM EST reply actions
The funny thing is
I think he is an ass personally, but this it is ridiculous the liberties that people are taking with the facts here, thus my compulsion to correct them.
"Sometimes I wonder if the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on, or by imbeciles who really mean it."
-Mark Twain
"If I tell you I'm good, you would probably think I'm boasting. If I tell you I'm no good, you know I'm lying..."
-Bruce Lee
by The American Ronin on Dec 10, 2010 1:39 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
This really isn’t that bad for Sonnen. Yes he has to pass on the TUF thing. But as long as he doesn’t fight in Nevada any more he won’t have to apply for a licence there so he will get away with his stories. After all there are lots of other states and countries. If they do the foreign TUFs out of country Chael can get a piece of that action.
There is no way
the UFC will endanger their relationship with the NSAC by doing that.
"Don’t quote old fucks to me" – Brent Brookhouse
by Chris Barton on Dec 10, 2010 1:45 PM EST up reply actions
And even if Dana were fool enough to try
The also-regulated-by-Nevada in their main business Fertita brothers would never allow such a clash.
Think Casino – when you thumb your nose at the rightful regulators, you will pay, one way or another.
"Sometimes I wonder if the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on, or by imbeciles who really mean it."
-Mark Twain
"If I tell you I'm good, you would probably think I'm boasting. If I tell you I'm no good, you know I'm lying..."
-Bruce Lee
by The American Ronin on Dec 10, 2010 2:02 PM EST up reply actions
It's not like the NSAC is ignorant of foreign ventures
See Indiana denying Gary Goodridge a January fight after finding out about him being at Dynamite!! 2009 getting taken out by Gegard Mousasi.
To answer the question of whether or not Kizer is forgiving, we turn to Big John.
John?
Don't believe a word I say, I don't train BJJ.
I blog at TangleBones - you should follow me on Twitter here.
If you like it, you should put a rec on it.
by jemaleddin on Dec 10, 2010 1:45 PM EST reply actions 7 recs
well played
thats a rec
http://mixedmartialartsblogger.wordpress.com/
by Cory Braiterman on Dec 10, 2010 1:55 PM EST up reply actions
Good point
But John also had issues with the UFC itself. Sonnen has the backing of the UFC.
Wolfgangsta @ www.ninjasplace.com
by Urijah Bieber on Dec 10, 2010 1:59 PM EST up reply actions
I wonder what everyone's gonna say
When the NSAC re-licenses him without incident and this thing blows over.
Wolfgangsta @ www.ninjasplace.com
Without a public mea culpa, it won’t happen.
"Sometimes I wonder if the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on, or by imbeciles who really mean it."
-Mark Twain
"If I tell you I'm good, you would probably think I'm boasting. If I tell you I'm no good, you know I'm lying..."
-Bruce Lee
by The American Ronin on Dec 10, 2010 2:05 PM EST up reply actions
I think Sonnen and Kizer deserve each other
They are the new odd couple.
Have you ever noticed that anybody driving slower than you is an idiot, and anyone going faster than you is a maniac?
George Carlin
I don't believe for a second
that Kizer will do anything other than what he’s always done. Sonnen will be licensed without much fuss.
Wolfgangsta @ www.ninjasplace.com
by Urijah Bieber on Dec 10, 2010 2:50 PM EST up reply actions
Everything that Sonnen says should be taken with a grain of salt.
Heck, even if he were standing right in front of me and said as much, I still wouldn’t believe him. He talks a lot of shit and for once it’s come back to hit him square in the face. He’s a politician that told the wrong lie this time.
If you see Sonnen coaching the next TUF anyway, we will all know that Dana White's pimp hand is massive.
Have you ever noticed that anybody driving slower than you is an idiot, and anyone going faster than you is a maniac?
George Carlin
There is no way that happens
against the NSAC’s will, even if they find a loophole in the licensing regs.
"Sometimes I wonder if the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on, or by imbeciles who really mean it."
-Mark Twain
"If I tell you I'm good, you would probably think I'm boasting. If I tell you I'm no good, you know I'm lying..."
-Bruce Lee
by The American Ronin on Dec 10, 2010 2:39 PM EST up reply actions
There is no way the NSAC
goes against the UFC’s will.
Wolfgangsta @ www.ninjasplace.com
by Urijah Bieber on Dec 10, 2010 2:51 PM EST up reply actions
For starters, there is no way the UFC would go to bat for Sonnen even through back channels unless they were absolutely certain that he was 100% correct, which they can never be.
More importantly, the Fertita brothers main business is the casino business, and there is ZERO chance they would allow Dana to publicly defy a Nevada state commission when their business is so closely regulated by another Nevada state commission.
"Sometimes I wonder if the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on, or by imbeciles who really mean it."
-Mark Twain
"If I tell you I'm good, you would probably think I'm boasting. If I tell you I'm no good, you know I'm lying..."
-Bruce Lee
by The American Ronin on Dec 10, 2010 3:05 PM EST up reply actions
Sure sure
I’m banking on this fading away into nothing.
Wolfgangsta @ www.ninjasplace.com
by Urijah Bieber on Dec 10, 2010 3:28 PM EST up reply actions
Coming soon to a theater near you!
Shnak is CAPTAIN CONTRARY!
Questioning all proven logic and convention!
by mountaineers101 on Dec 10, 2010 3:11 PM EST via mobile reply actions
Dude, Ronin
Gotta hand it to you man. Threads like this are why I like BE, you really know your shit. Thanks for all the knowledge you’re dropping on us. Really makes me looks smart to my friends/coworkers when I explain what’s going on to them later lol
but really, These informative civil debate threads are my favorite.
"We have all had to watch Brock Lesnar fart around. That guy is an embarrassment. God damn, you get to hand pick his opponents for him for a while then someone who is a half way decent athlete comes along and hits him once and he pisses his pants and runs. If he wasn't in a cage he would still be running."
-Don Frye
Hmmmmm
http://www.nooooooooooooooo.com/

"When I beat Wanderlei I’m a take his belt, pull his pants down and spank him for being so ugly" - Quinton Jackson

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