Josh Thomson believes the UFC/WEC Merger was a nice way of saying the WEC had failed (via lasvegassun.com)
"They made it sound so great that a company went under. The simple fact of the matter was that the WEC failed and they put it with the UFC to carry it."
"To compare WEC lightweights to Strikeforce and the UFC is not fair because if they were that good, they would have been fighting for the UFC. I think the world of (Jamie) Varner, but I beat Hermes (Franca) and Hermes beat Varner. Varner was the WEC champ for awhile. So, where does that leave us?"
-- photo via strikeforce.com
over 1 year ago
Nick Thomas
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I love that Thomson continually wants to do MMA math. Beating Hermes automatically means he would beat Varner. Fights 4 and 6 years ago aren’t all that relevant today. I mean, Josh lost to Yves who lost to Hominick who was in the WEC at the time of the merger. Yves also lost to Mike Campbell who was cut by the WEC. So, Josh, where does that leave us?
by swells2048 on Nov 9, 2010 10:19 AM EST reply actions 10 recs
Those damned logic proofs back in middle school math really screwed me.
Apparently, Thomson suffers from the same academic shortcomings.
by LikeTheWhiskey on Nov 9, 2010 1:57 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
you’re a fighter josh, you should know better than to use MMAmath. we shall see. why aren’t you in the UFC? why did you lose to Clay Guida? why does you former 8-fight win streak include nobody worth a damn except Gilbert Melendez, who subsequently beat you? WHY DON’T FIGHTERS JUST SHUT THE FUCK UP INSTEAD OF TALKING NONSENSE ON BEHALF OF THEIR PROMOTIONS? FOLLOW THE MONEY, DON:T DISPARAGE ANY PROMOTION, IT DOESN’T HELP YOU.
a life: it's the shit that happens while you're waiting for moments that never come -Lester Freamon
by eastcoastatlas on Nov 9, 2010 10:19 AM EST reply actions 1 recs
JZ is certainly worth a damn. So are the other guys that Josh fought. Let’s tone it down 12 notches.
by Jonathan Snowden on Nov 9, 2010 10:28 AM EST up reply actions
JZ wasn’t in the streak, but yes, is worth a damn. really, all these guys are worth a damn because they step in the ring/cage, but I’m relating this to the context of how Josh talks like he and Gilbert are unquestionably the top 2 LWs in the world. if he’s gonna act like it’s on that level, i’m gonna treat it as such. So, with the caveat that Josh Thomson believes he is so much better than anyone in the WEC and thus should be evaluated on that criteria, let’s look at the streak: Duane Ludwig is a one-dimensional guy who loses to anybody with any wrestling, Nam Phan is 4-5 since he started fighting above regional competition, and there is nothing on the internet about any of his other win-streak opponents beyond their fightfinder records, which aren’t impressive.
Most importantly, he’s just being dumb by speaking negatively about any promotion (and it’s parent company by proxy) that highly likely to be his best option for future employment considering the precariousness of any promotion outside of Zuffa. It’s annoying.
a life: it's the shit that happens while you're waiting for moments that never come -Lester Freamon
by eastcoastatlas on Nov 9, 2010 10:38 AM EST up reply actions
Josh talks like he and Gilbert are unquestionably the top 2 LWs in the world
In our interview with him he said top 10, maybe top 5.
by Jonathan Snowden on Nov 9, 2010 11:41 AM EST up reply actions
point still stands even then. outside of JZ, Gilbert, and even if i include Guida 4 years ago, Josh’s competition in the past 5 years is no more relevant to the top 25 than the competition at the top of WEC’s 155 in the past 5 years. I’d even argue that outside of JZ and Gil, Josh’s competition isn’t even WEC level.
a life: it's the shit that happens while you're waiting for moments that never come -Lester Freamon
by eastcoastatlas on Nov 9, 2010 12:07 PM EST up reply actions
I don’t know about the last five years. That’s a weird timeframe since it was before the WEC was a Zuffa property. Since the WEC revamp, Josh has fought top guys in three of five fights.
by Jonathan Snowden on Nov 9, 2010 12:53 PM EST up reply actions
getting into a debate about where Josh Thomson fits into the picture was counterproductive on my part. everyone else here has said the more mildly-worded version of what i thought. the main thing i mean to get at is:
“To compare WEC lightweights to Strikeforce and the UFC is not fair because if they were that good, they would have been fighting for the UFC.”
other than Josh and Gil, nobody in Strikeforce’s LW division is unquestionably better than most of the WEC lightweight division. and since legit co-promotion with Dream has only happened twice (Gil/Aoki and Josh/JZ), he doesn’t really have a leg to stand on. he can continue re-matching with Gil and JZ all he wants, but that doesn’t show he can defeat more than a couple styles.
a life: it's the shit that happens while you're waiting for moments that never come -Lester Freamon
by eastcoastatlas on Nov 9, 2010 1:06 PM EST up reply actions
JZ, Shaolin. Fancy Pants, Noons, Ishida, and Masvidal are all UFC level fighters.Gurgel was also at one point a UFC fighter. To say that there are no legit match ups for Thomson is incredibly short sighted as there obviously is a lot of talent in that LW division. Come to think of it, I think that Gurgel vs Thomson would be fireworks,
www.mmalinker.com
by exsanguinator on Nov 9, 2010 8:31 PM EST up reply actions
JZ wasn't in the 8 fight win streak...
@TylerTreese on twitter
check out my site @IWannaPolka
by TylerTreese on Nov 9, 2010 10:40 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
kind of ironic, Snowden
"How do you shoot the devil in the back? What if you miss?"
by DamnSevern on Nov 9, 2010 10:41 AM EST up reply actions 8 recs
stick the chill pill up somebody else's ass and give me this:
a life: it's the shit that happens while you're waiting for moments that never come -Lester Freamon
by eastcoastatlas on Nov 9, 2010 10:48 AM EST up reply actions
Second that.
Bolts from the Blue // "It is what it is." - A.J. Smith
Bloody Elbow // "Richard is a jewel." - Kid Nate
4th.
He’s got his Jerry Millian act down to a T.
yeah for sure
he has a nice little bit of MMA-math going on right there.
WEC vs Strikeforce
Hasn’t the WEC shows been getting more viewers then the Showtime Strikeforce shows?
I think the numbers are close depending on who is fighting, but I think Versus is in far more homes.
Maybe it's because I thoroughly enjoyed the WEC shows
but to say it was a failure just sounds idiotic, IMHO.
Don't gain the world and lose your soul, wisdom is better than silver or gold.
I don't think......
It has been a failure at all. They are getting a good amount of viewers and their one PPV did numbers higher than expected. Rather than it “failing” I think they probably came to the conclusion it wouldn’t get any bigger than it was doing and decided a merger would be better.
When are people going to stop comparing a cable network to a subscription channel?
Michael Robinson leads the Seahawks in completion percentage, yards-per-attempt, and QB rating.
Perhaps when said cable network isn't part of a subscription package?
I know with my standard cable package I don’t get either Versus or Showtime and opted into both only because of the MMA being shown. Makes the comparison valid enough for me.
by Empty Thoughts on Nov 9, 2010 12:22 PM EST up reply actions
Versus is standard for a lot of people, and at worst, part of a large channel package that costs 1015$ dollard for a ton of channels. Showtime is 10-15$ just for one channel. Versus is in way more homes, and still must get most of it’s revenue from advertising sales. Showtime makes waaaaayyy more money per viewer of a show than Versus because they cost the same for one channel as Versus does as part of a bunch of other channels. When WEC is getting just a few thousand more viewers than Strikeforce on Showtime, Strikeforce/Showtime is still making a lot more money. that’s why the comparison doesn’t work.
a life: it's the shit that happens while you're waiting for moments that never come -Lester Freamon
by eastcoastatlas on Nov 9, 2010 12:58 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Not sure about the numbers
But VS is in more homes, yeah.
Although I think SF’s recent cards have been really entertaining.
Say 5 million people watch a show on VS that has a total viewership of 40 million people but only 1 million people watch a show on Showtime with a total subscriber base of 5 million people. Who wins?
It’s still a debate over cable channel vs pay channel. Different markets, different measures of success and so many different ways actual ratings apply to the different criteria.
There’s really no way to compare the two and have it be a fair fight. What people should really be looking at is if there was a card on Spike and then a card on VS and compare those viewership numbers while at the same time comparing how many people watch a Strikeforce show to how many people watch Boardwalk Empire or True Blood on HBO.
Cable channels have completely different yardsticks for success than pay channels do. You have a point when comparing number of viewers in total but when you take into account all of the peripherals it paints an entirely different picture as far as ‘success’ is defined.
www.mmalinker.com
by exsanguinator on Nov 9, 2010 8:44 PM EST up reply actions
cringe worthy
"How you expect to run with the wolves come night when you spend all day sparring with the puppies" - Omar Little
by The Omaplatapus on Nov 9, 2010 10:38 AM EST reply actions
I mean Forrest Griffin beat Rampage. Forrest’s best friend’s cousin beat him up in middle school, who had previously transferred to my primary school and I beat him up in first grade so where does that leave us?
It's official. Les Miles DOES NOT have a deal with the devil. He beat him Nov. 6th, 24-21.
ooh, i know the answer: You’re Kevin Bacon
a life: it's the shit that happens while you're waiting for moments that never come -Lester Freamon
by eastcoastatlas on Nov 9, 2010 10:46 AM EST up reply actions 2 recs
I've seen WEC shirts being worn by the general public a few times
never seen any Strikeforce gear.
The two WEC DVD releases have been in Wal-Mart, doubt the lone Strikeforce release is there.
WEC has had a successful PPV (far eclipsing the #s of other MMA PPVs for example Affliction Banned).
If anything the WEC has been more successful than SF in several ventures. WEC was far from a huge success but it wasn’t a failure.
I could make a similar list of triumphs of SF over WEC (CBS deal, etc) but what i’m saying is that WEC was pretty much the #2/3 promotion outside of the UFC and had a lot of success.
@TylerTreese on twitter
check out my site @IWannaPolka
boy oh boy
he’s got this one all wrong
i as a fan have been salivating for this merger to happen. more fighters and more division is a good thing for us fans. not to mention giving the ufc an ability to fill out their cards that are lacking with fights that will be exciting.
now days there’s alot of top notch talent around the world spread out in different promotions. but the depth of the ufc’s lw division, especially after this merger, puts it in a whole other class from any other promotion
strikeforce has talent but it just can’t compare
The sea refuses no river. The idea is to remain in a state of constant departure while always arriving. It saves on introductions and goodbyes. The ride does not require explanation - just occupance.
by Johnathan Willis on Nov 9, 2010 10:53 AM EST reply actions
forgive the typos
too early to be typing
The sea refuses no river. The idea is to remain in a state of constant departure while always arriving. It saves on introductions and goodbyes. The ride does not require explanation - just occupance.
by Johnathan Willis on Nov 9, 2010 10:55 AM EST up reply actions
Where does that leave you Thomson?
Still in Strikeforce…zing!
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by achengy on Nov 9, 2010 10:55 AM EST reply actions 5 recs
Yeah, well that's like, your opinion.
Michael Robinson leads the Seahawks in completion percentage, yards-per-attempt, and QB rating.
Butcher.
Bolts from the Blue // "It is what it is." - A.J. Smith
Bloody Elbow // "Richard is a jewel." - Kid Nate
As a businessman
Josh makes a heck of a fighter.
Tatum: I think he's a good man. I like him. I got nothing against him, but I'm definitely gonna make orphans of his children.
What’s with strikeforce fighters like Thomson and Noons constantly running over their peers? Thomson is way too full of his own shit.
"I'm gonna go after number one, whoever it is. If it's Anderson, or I gotta go up after the guys at 205, or go on a diet and go after Jose Aldo-- it doesn't matter." -Chael Sonnen
by Charles Awad on Nov 9, 2010 11:18 AM EST via mobile reply actions 1 recs
This guy
Walking the line between intelligence and ignorance since 1985
@deowade
Unintelligent Defense, I bring Cricket bats to fist fights.
by Damon O. on Nov 9, 2010 11:27 AM EST reply actions 12 recs
Josh Thomson lost to Clay Guida who lost to Dan Duke who has a record of 2-1 and doesn’t even have a Wikipedia page. Long into short, Dan Duke would whip Josh Thomson’s ass.
by scottwgiblin on Nov 9, 2010 11:43 AM EST reply actions
Wow
A guy fighting for Strikeforce (disclaimer – I like Strikeforce and ordered Showtime for it right after they bought elite xc) is calling the WEC a failure? What a dork. Plus, how wrong is he? There’s no way the WEC was losing money. Their ratings may not have always been totally up there, but they are/were a strong brand in a very saturated market and that says a hell of a lot. They helped to make and air fights that made the careers of many new stars – Jose Aldo, Uriah Faber, Miguel Torres, Carlos Conditt, Donald Cerrone (though Tapout helped him along A LOT with their show), Anthony Pettis, etc etc and those are just the relatively recent stars under the Zuffa banner..
Which stars made their names in Strikeforce? Gilbert Melendez, Josh Thompson, Cung Le… and I struggle to think of another. WEC had far more effective match making and promotion – true they had the huge boost of Zuffa’s money and the VS deal, but they just simply do it better than Strikeforce and I don’t know many fans who would disagree.
Josh Thompson = FAIL. Good luck getting owned by Gil again.
There’s no way the WEC was losing money.
Are you sure? You might be right. But here are the attendance numbers for WEC 51.
Attendance: 3,791; Gate: $190,620; Comped Tickets: 1,511; Paid Attend: 2,280
That is from mmapayout.com. That is almost as many comped tickets as sold tickets. Then right after we get the merger news. The PPV did well becuase they did every thing they could to hide the fact it was a WEC show and make people think it was a UFC show.
That doesn’t mean you’re losing money. You’re losing money if you do what affliction did and buying the tickets at face value to inflate the gate then selling them for less.
Giving away tickets is free, and then you make money from them buying food/drinks/etc.
Doesnt the venue keep food drinks non licensed goods?
by Papercut Elbow on Nov 9, 2010 4:16 PM EST up reply actions
i think that the people running hte event would get some of it, either directly or from the sight fee or when it comes to negotiating if they need to pay for the arena.
Even if they get nothing, it still costs nothing to let someone walk in the door. It’s better to have someone not pay and see the event than to have them not pay and not see the event.
PLUS!
How often has the WEC had problems making the right fights happen???
Frikking NEVER. The only fight that I can think of that got put on the back burner for an inordinate amount of time was the Varner-Cerrone rematch and that wasn’t the fault of WEC at all… Plus in the meantime Ben Henderson became a new star.
Dont mention Bendo now
Josh made a fuss about how Henderson was ahead of him in ranking
Dear audio diary: Today I may have accidentally registered myself as a sex offender! WHAT IS WRONG WITH MY LIFE
- T-Rex
by sitnam90 on Nov 9, 2010 12:38 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Thomson just lost alot more fans again.
Mir, Aldo , Axe Murderer , Bones, Nightmare
If i got tied to a chair in a room with nothing but a TV and was forced to watch one thing for the rest of my life, it would be the WEC.
Not I
I still think he’s an amazing fighter. What he says doesn’t matter as much to me, although I think he made some decent points here.
I wouldn’t say I’m not a fan anymore. He’s a great fighter to watch just can’t stand what comes put of his mouth sometimes.
Mir, Aldo , Axe Murderer , Bones, Nightmare
If i got tied to a chair in a room with nothing but a TV and was forced to watch one thing for the rest of my life, it would be the WEC.
So because Varner lost to Franca, the WEC was a failure?
That’s either moronic or some really deep sh*t right there.
Give me smallest finger on man's hand. I'll produce information. Computer unnecessary.
by hobbie on Nov 9, 2010 12:29 PM EST via mobile reply actions
Sure MMAmath is dumb
But Thompson would run ship in the WEC’s lightweight division. It would be scary actually.
"I am a man who pisses largely and frequently, which they say is a sign of great mental activity" -Henry Miller-
Contributor at cagepages.com Come check us out.
How many fights does he have left on his Strikeforce deal?
I bet he’ll re-sign with them. And if he does, he need not say anything thing about the UFC again.
Walking the line between intelligence and ignorance since 1985
@deowade
Unintelligent Defense, I bring Cricket bats to fist fights.
I can't imagine him fighting anywhere else
But the guy can say whatever he wants.
"I am a man who pisses largely and frequently, which they say is a sign of great mental activity" -Henry Miller-
Contributor at cagepages.com Come check us out.
Oh, he can say whatever he wants
But you’d think he’d want to back up all of his talk right?
Walking the line between intelligence and ignorance since 1985
@deowade
Unintelligent Defense, I bring Cricket bats to fist fights.
Thompson would run ship in the WEC’s lightweight division.
Bull.
I have seen nothing in the last few years to indicate to me that Thomson would ‘run ship’ on the WEC LW division. The guy is one of the most inconsistent fighters in the sport. He will occasionally put on a brilliant performance (like in the first Melendez fight), but he is incapable of stringing performances like that together. He might beat a Shaloirus here or a Cerrone there, but he would eventually show up with his ‘B game’ and get steamrolled by a hungry, motivated guy like Pettis or Bendo.
by Steve4192 on Nov 9, 2010 2:49 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
You know...
I used to like Josh Thompson as a fighter. Now I just want him to shut the fuck up.
by Diz D on Nov 9, 2010 1:11 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
Josh... How about this...
Zuffa realized that they could get way more out each fight if it happened under the UFC brand. Why get one dollar if you can get two! That doesn’t mean the WEC failed. It just means the UFC brand is just that strong. Zuffa was leaving money on the table and Zuffa doesn’t like doing that.
Josh… nobody outside the hardcore MMA community knows who you are, playboy.
Give The Punk some respect
He’s a good fighter, and says what he thinks about shit. Look what he told the judges after his fight against JZ??? He gave them shit to their faces. I give him a lot of credit for that.
As for what he said, I agree to a certain extent. WEC wasn’t going to last. The UFC came in and rescued them with the merger. Its not like two powerhouse promotions got together.
WEC + UFC = The Future
http://www.bloodyelbow.com/2007/12/10/95940/809
KM: If your contract is with WEC and you are on deck with UFC can you clarify the connection? I thought WEC were running independently.
JA: My contract is with Zuffa. I am considered a WEC fighter and they don’t like to cross paths like that, they are trying to build it up. What I was told is eventually the idea is build them up to where they are even with each other and have title unifications and stuff like that. We are still a year, maybe two years away.
Nice little find here…
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