Ken Shamrock suffered a TKO loss to Mike Bourke at KOTC: Platinum in South Africa last week, when he injured his knee during a scramble in the second round and was unable to continue.
over 1 year ago
Scott Haber
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it's sad
that he doesn’t have any other mean of income so he could retire from fighting. He gave us many years of fights during the sport’s darkest days, he should be able to retire with honor… unfortunately, that’s not the case.
"whether or not you can ever become great at something, you can always become better at it. Don’t ever forget that. and don't say; ‘oh I’ll never be good’. you can become better. then one day, you'll wake up and you will find out how good you became having transcended whatever limits you might have thought you couldn't pass"
--Neil deGrasse Tyson
Oh don’t give me that, like he’s a victim or something.. He made over a quarter mill for each of the Tito fights. He would be able to retire with ease if he knew how to manage his money. I’m sure he would have a non fighting job in sf or ufc if he didn’t have such an abrasive personality. Ken screwed Ken.
by wilderdude on Nov 28, 2010 11:49 AM EST via mobile up reply actions 1 recs
Yeah I know, but let’s not act like he was screwed over. He did it all to himself.
by wilderdude on Nov 28, 2010 12:06 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
so what?
it’s not against the law to be stupid, sure, he should have saved some money, but he didn’t, that doesn’t mean you should have the mentality of “serves him right” as if you’re proud to acknowledge he deserves this.
"whether or not you can ever become great at something, you can always become better at it. Don’t ever forget that. and don't say; ‘oh I’ll never be good’. you can become better. then one day, you'll wake up and you will find out how good you became having transcended whatever limits you might have thought you couldn't pass"
--Neil deGrasse Tyson
I’m not proud to acknowledge that he deserves this, but he is responsible for his situation. I’ll save my sympathy for fighters that were legitimately screwed over.
Oh, and retirement money is not a right. And if he is capable of getting his ass kicked for money, he is also capable of working a real job.
by wilderdude on Nov 28, 2010 12:39 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
hang on
you say retirement money isn’t a right? you sure about that? if you work, you should get retirement money, and below you say he does get them, if he does I stand corrected, but I’m skeptical about that.
And if he is capable of getting his ass kicked for money, he is also capable of working a real job.
yeah, a fighter who spends his life fighting probably does not have experience or training to do something else, let alone be hired to work with something else.
"whether or not you can ever become great at something, you can always become better at it. Don’t ever forget that. and don't say; ‘oh I’ll never be good’. you can become better. then one day, you'll wake up and you will find out how good you became having transcended whatever limits you might have thought you couldn't pass"
--Neil deGrasse Tyson
I said he wasn’t entitled to any retirement money..
Shamrock has however made enough money to retire with ease. Just didn’t hold on to it.
A fighter may not be skilled in other areas, but who’s to say he can’t learn something new if he really wanted to.
by wilderdude on Nov 28, 2010 12:48 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
I said he wasn’t entitled to any retirement money..
why not? he worked didn’t he? he’s entitled…
Shamrock has however made enough money to retire with ease. Just didn’t hold on to it.
ok, that isn’t retirement money… you realize it’s different, no? and I already said he wasn’t smart to not hang on to his money, but that doesn’t mean he isn’t entitled to retirement money.
A fighter may not be skilled in other areas, but who’s to say he can’t learn something new if he really wanted to.
who is going to hire him without any other experience or any other training… the only place he’ll be able to work is McDonalds… and he wouldn’t be able to make enough to pay Dana and CO. back…
"whether or not you can ever become great at something, you can always become better at it. Don’t ever forget that. and don't say; ‘oh I’ll never be good’. you can become better. then one day, you'll wake up and you will find out how good you became having transcended whatever limits you might have thought you couldn't pass"
--Neil deGrasse Tyson
Pro wrestler Shane Douglas, from another industry that has no pension, went on to be a manager at a target store. I don’t think shamrock is the kinda guy to swallow his pride and do something like that.
by wilderdude on Nov 28, 2010 1:14 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
he is the owner of the lions den gym.
He isn’t flat broke. He owes Zuffa money. when he pays that off he might hang up the 4 ouncers. Unless he still likes to fight.
"I wish Anthony Pace was my father just so I could claim to be the fruit of his loins."
"Even Hulkamania wouldn't get you out of this hold"
"True strength is not always shown through victory. Stand up, try again and display strength of heart."
by the-gentle-way on Nov 28, 2010 1:19 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
but do they even have many athletes anymore?
"whether or not you can ever become great at something, you can always become better at it. Don’t ever forget that. and don't say; ‘oh I’ll never be good’. you can become better. then one day, you'll wake up and you will find out how good you became having transcended whatever limits you might have thought you couldn't pass"
--Neil deGrasse Tyson
idk?
If he has 200 students at $150 a head for tuition. That’s $30,000 gross per month. The money isn’t in training pros. Its in training everyone.
"I wish Anthony Pace was my father just so I could claim to be the fruit of his loins."
"Even Hulkamania wouldn't get you out of this hold"
"True strength is not always shown through victory. Stand up, try again and display strength of heart."
by the-gentle-way on Nov 28, 2010 1:51 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
I just don't think his gym has a big reputation anymore
I’m not so sure he can get that many students and match that monthly payment, since the sport has passed him by. I hope that’s the case though.
"whether or not you can ever become great at something, you can always become better at it. Don’t ever forget that. and don't say; ‘oh I’ll never be good’. you can become better. then one day, you'll wake up and you will find out how good you became having transcended whatever limits you might have thought you couldn't pass"
--Neil deGrasse Tyson
different people
with different opportunities, I just hope the system changes so that fighters (and other people, such as Pro Wrestlers) do start getting pensions, they deserve it. they hurt their bodies to entertain us, and we shouldn’t just turn around with a big FU towards them when their done.
"whether or not you can ever become great at something, you can always become better at it. Don’t ever forget that. and don't say; ‘oh I’ll never be good’. you can become better. then one day, you'll wake up and you will find out how good you became having transcended whatever limits you might have thought you couldn't pass"
--Neil deGrasse Tyson
Do you get a pension?
Do you get a pension? I don’t, and am thinking that this is probably true for most people.
I’m a contractor. Like many of the fighters, I work from contract to contract. I’ve got a 401K, Roth-IRA, and my savings. I’m the only one who contributes to them. I pay for my own health coverage. A pension would be nice, but I think they’re going the way of Dodo bird.
by emeraldringer on Nov 28, 2010 2:09 PM EST up reply actions
I'm not retired
once I do however, I will… and I have a small company.
"whether or not you can ever become great at something, you can always become better at it. Don’t ever forget that. and don't say; ‘oh I’ll never be good’. you can become better. then one day, you'll wake up and you will find out how good you became having transcended whatever limits you might have thought you couldn't pass"
--Neil deGrasse Tyson
Congratulations on that. Congratulations to your employees also. Finding a company, especially a small one, that guarantees to pay out benefits for life to all of its employees isn’t easy to find these days.
by emeraldringer on Nov 28, 2010 2:22 PM EST up reply actions
it's not up to me
it’s a right that people have through law, I understand that contractors such as yourself currently don’t have those rights in the US, but I think they should.
"whether or not you can ever become great at something, you can always become better at it. Don’t ever forget that. and don't say; ‘oh I’ll never be good’. you can become better. then one day, you'll wake up and you will find out how good you became having transcended whatever limits you might have thought you couldn't pass"
--Neil deGrasse Tyson
What country do you live in?
I’m in the US and have never worked for a company that offered a pension.
by emeraldringer on Nov 28, 2010 2:41 PM EST up reply actions
Brazil
we’re a bunch of socialists, I guess…
"whether or not you can ever become great at something, you can always become better at it. Don’t ever forget that. and don't say; ‘oh I’ll never be good’. you can become better. then one day, you'll wake up and you will find out how good you became having transcended whatever limits you might have thought you couldn't pass"
--Neil deGrasse Tyson
I think your heart's in the right place...
…but I don’t think it’d work here in the USA. I ran my own small business for a few years in the 90s. I eventually had to shut it down. I wouldn’t even have been able to start it if I had to worry about pensions for employees.
The employment picture here in the US would be even worse if all the small companies had to worry about supporting retired workers for life with company-sponsored pensions. That would in turn have consequences on those already retired who depend on Social Security (less companies providing jobs, less companies paying taxes, etc. = less $ for social security, less $ to help support those in need.)
Good talking to you.
by emeraldringer on Nov 28, 2010 3:00 PM EST up reply actions
I think I may have confused what "pension" means
each employee that you pay, you pay their salary and a percentage you pay the government, once their retired or have an accident and can’t work for a while, they get that money back. not sure if that’s a pension or not, I have to look into what pension is. this is my fault with confusing the term.
"whether or not you can ever become great at something, you can always become better at it. Don’t ever forget that. and don't say; ‘oh I’ll never be good’. you can become better. then one day, you'll wake up and you will find out how good you became having transcended whatever limits you might have thought you couldn't pass"
--Neil deGrasse Tyson
socialist with hot women, top notch Martial arts, pretty beaches and hot women.
Why do I live in the US again?
"I wish Anthony Pace was my father just so I could claim to be the fruit of his loins."
"Even Hulkamania wouldn't get you out of this hold"
"True strength is not always shown through victory. Stand up, try again and display strength of heart."
by the-gentle-way on Nov 28, 2010 4:54 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
you are welcome anytime brother
:p
"whether or not you can ever become great at something, you can always become better at it. Don’t ever forget that. and don't say; ‘oh I’ll never be good’. you can become better. then one day, you'll wake up and you will find out how good you became having transcended whatever limits you might have thought you couldn't pass"
--Neil deGrasse Tyson
orcus
I have been reading your posts for years and I would like to say, you only write real ass shit when you post. The only thing I have disagreed with you about is shogun vs. Dragon I. Which is understandable.
Shamrock is an asshole and seems to also be bad with money. I think zuffa should have just given him the last fight he thought he was owed. He could have fought mark hunt. it would have been cool to see him say good bye to the fans like that.
"I wish Anthony Pace was my father just so I could claim to be the fruit of his loins."
"Even Hulkamania wouldn't get you out of this hold"
"True strength is not always shown through victory. Stand up, try again and display strength of heart."
by the-gentle-way on Nov 28, 2010 1:14 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
thanks brother
I appreciate it. btw; SHOGUN! :p
"whether or not you can ever become great at something, you can always become better at it. Don’t ever forget that. and don't say; ‘oh I’ll never be good’. you can become better. then one day, you'll wake up and you will find out how good you became having transcended whatever limits you might have thought you couldn't pass"
--Neil deGrasse Tyson
That's not the point
The guy is a legend of the sport and an old dude with a really beat up body trying to compete in one of the most dangerous sports in the world, because he can’t get money by other means.
It’s very sad.
Ken Shamrock's Thanksgiving meal
You know Joe, Brandon Vera is considered to be a Heavyweight George St.Pierre because he just comes, comes, and comes again... -Mike Goldberg, UFC 57
Cheick Kongo looks like a cross between Evander Holyfield and pop singer Seal!
Melvin Guilard looks like a little Kevin Randelman!
-Mike "All black people look alike to me" Goldberg, UFC 62/64
by Jonnycaz2.0 on Nov 28, 2010 1:59 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
do you mean he doesn't deserve basic rights
such as retirement money? (not sure what the correct terminology for this is in the states).
"whether or not you can ever become great at something, you can always become better at it. Don’t ever forget that. and don't say; ‘oh I’ll never be good’. you can become better. then one day, you'll wake up and you will find out how good you became having transcended whatever limits you might have thought you couldn't pass"
--Neil deGrasse Tyson
He got retirement money… He blew it all. That’s not my fault.
by wilderdude on Nov 28, 2010 12:37 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
are you sure he gets retirement money?
"whether or not you can ever become great at something, you can always become better at it. Don’t ever forget that. and don't say; ‘oh I’ll never be good’. you can become better. then one day, you'll wake up and you will find out how good you became having transcended whatever limits you might have thought you couldn't pass"
--Neil deGrasse Tyson
Nothing that was specifically earmarked as “retirement”, fighters are independent contractors, they have to save/manage their cash on their own. I’d love it if the ufc had a pension program. Gotta realize that it’s not the case.
by wilderdude on Nov 28, 2010 12:51 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
do they not pay taxes?
I mean, sure, if the laws are not currently made so they can get some sort of retirement fund, I sure hope it changes. most of these fighters won’t have anything to fall back on once they retire.
"whether or not you can ever become great at something, you can always become better at it. Don’t ever forget that. and don't say; ‘oh I’ll never be good’. you can become better. then one day, you'll wake up and you will find out how good you became having transcended whatever limits you might have thought you couldn't pass"
--Neil deGrasse Tyson
Yeah everyone pays taxes, and if they do pay into social security they are entitled to it… Once they hit 65 or whatever the current retirement age is. They don’t get any special treatment.
by wilderdude on Nov 28, 2010 1:10 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
well
they should definitely make an exception to fighters, they can’t retire at 65 (maybe Randy will be able to, who knows?).
I understand they are currently not entitled to these funds, I’m just arguing that they should.
"whether or not you can ever become great at something, you can always become better at it. Don’t ever forget that. and don't say; ‘oh I’ll never be good’. you can become better. then one day, you'll wake up and you will find out how good you became having transcended whatever limits you might have thought you couldn't pass"
--Neil deGrasse Tyson
no, i disagree. when you work in a field where you can (and did) make more money for one fight than most people make in 10 years, you are not gonna get gifted an early retirement from the government.
I don’t think Shamrock ever made that type of money.
"whether or not you can ever become great at something, you can always become better at it. Don’t ever forget that. and don't say; ‘oh I’ll never be good’. you can become better. then one day, you'll wake up and you will find out how good you became having transcended whatever limits you might have thought you couldn't pass"
--Neil deGrasse Tyson
yeah he was dude, look at the payouts reported for shamrock/ortiz fights. he was a huge name in the ufc, once zuffa took over, he was stacking paper to the ceiling.
he got paid 100k for UFC 61
"whether or not you can ever become great at something, you can always become better at it. Don’t ever forget that. and don't say; ‘oh I’ll never be good’. you can become better. then one day, you'll wake up and you will find out how good you became having transcended whatever limits you might have thought you couldn't pass"
--Neil deGrasse Tyson
that was after his stock had dropped… for that TUF finale vs. rich franklin he was pulling down 230,000, and i don’t have the figures right in front of me, but i remember him making 300,000+ before as well. i’m sure pride paid him good cash for that fight vs. shamrock as well. then there’s his WWE career…
you can look at someone like jens pulver, that’s a sad story, shamrock is just a tale of irresponsiblity.
even if he was getting 300k for a fight
that’s not more than what most people make for 10 years, and his high paying jobs were a few fights, that’s not what he was getting for most of his fights. Not sure about his WWE career though.
"whether or not you can ever become great at something, you can always become better at it. Don’t ever forget that. and don't say; ‘oh I’ll never be good’. you can become better. then one day, you'll wake up and you will find out how good you became having transcended whatever limits you might have thought you couldn't pass"
--Neil deGrasse Tyson
well like i said i don’t have the figures in front of me, but i do remember him making 400k for at least one fight. which is where i got the 10x what most people make annually thing from.
most people don’t make 40k a year in the US?
"whether or not you can ever become great at something, you can always become better at it. Don’t ever forget that. and don't say; ‘oh I’ll never be good’. you can become better. then one day, you'll wake up and you will find out how good you became having transcended whatever limits you might have thought you couldn't pass"
--Neil deGrasse Tyson
average is at 50k
as of 2006
"whether or not you can ever become great at something, you can always become better at it. Don’t ever forget that. and don't say; ‘oh I’ll never be good’. you can become better. then one day, you'll wake up and you will find out how good you became having transcended whatever limits you might have thought you couldn't pass"
--Neil deGrasse Tyson
not sure nowadays though
"whether or not you can ever become great at something, you can always become better at it. Don’t ever forget that. and don't say; ‘oh I’ll never be good’. you can become better. then one day, you'll wake up and you will find out how good you became having transcended whatever limits you might have thought you couldn't pass"
--Neil deGrasse Tyson
though to be fair
that’s household income
"whether or not you can ever become great at something, you can always become better at it. Don’t ever forget that. and don't say; ‘oh I’ll never be good’. you can become better. then one day, you'll wake up and you will find out how good you became having transcended whatever limits you might have thought you couldn't pass"
--Neil deGrasse Tyson
yeah but you’re just splitting hairs at this point… so he made 6x what average person makes in a year in a single fight.. that’s still high.
what I'm trying to get to
is that he didn’t make that kind of money in all of his fights, in fact, he only made that kind of money in a few fights, and the 400k value, if true, is only one fight (and probably the highest paid).
"whether or not you can ever become great at something, you can always become better at it. Don’t ever forget that. and don't say; ‘oh I’ll never be good’. you can become better. then one day, you'll wake up and you will find out how good you became having transcended whatever limits you might have thought you couldn't pass"
--Neil deGrasse Tyson
That's average household income, not personal income
That includes married couples as single incomes.
yeah
I acknowledged that above
"whether or not you can ever become great at something, you can always become better at it. Don’t ever forget that. and don't say; ‘oh I’ll never be good’. you can become better. then one day, you'll wake up and you will find out how good you became having transcended whatever limits you might have thought you couldn't pass"
--Neil deGrasse Tyson
Are we asking you to donate money to him?
Just asking for a little sympathy.
Apparently, sympathy is too socialist.
This is really sad
A year or two ago I would have made some smart ass comment about him but its to the point now I feel sorry for him. I really wish he would give it up. Whats even more sad is that one of the pioneers of our sport and a guy that helped build the UFC is so broke he has to keep fighting even when he and everyone else knows he will lose.
I'm gonna give you three seconds; exactly three-fucking-seconds to wipe that stupid looking grin off your face or I will gouge out your eyeballs and skull-fuck you!
It's also sad that he's one of the pioneers that made money
He just spent it thinking it’d never run out. But he has made probably 10million+ just from Pride / WWF / UFC / IFL / Sponsorships…he just didn’t save it.
Follow me on twitter @thisredengine
Also please check out SBnation's Red Bulls blog @ www.onceametro.com
by Matthew Roth on Nov 28, 2010 11:01 AM EST up reply actions
True
He probably got the money management brain cells beat out of him over his career.
I'm gonna give you three seconds; exactly three-fucking-seconds to wipe that stupid looking grin off your face or I will gouge out your eyeballs and skull-fuck you!
He can’t retire until he pays Zuffa back the $175,000 in legal fees he owes them from unsuccessfully dragging them into court.
"If I wanted to spend a half hour between two hairy legs I'd go to your mother's house." -Don Frye
by mburtoni on Nov 28, 2010 10:58 AM EST via mobile reply actions
Maybe he should think about skilled trades so he won’t get punched in the face on a regular basis.
Keep Firing, Assholes!
Time to put some meat in your pain sandwich.
If he hadn't pissed everybody off
He could probably make decent money as a hype guy for a promotion like Frank does.
"I am a man who pisses largely and frequently, which they say is a sign of great mental activity" -Henry Miller-
Contributor at cagepages.com Come check us out.
He is not THAT bad off...
He can:
1. Run a gym
2. Train fighters/coach
3. Do seminars
4. Start broadcasting either for a regional promotion or a mid-major if one wants him.
5. Move in with wes sims
All of these (save one) are viable money making avenues for his talents. Truth is, they just involve actual WORK rather than just showing up, being a bit embarrased then going home. If its worth it to him ok, but to make it sound like he HAS to fight or starve is a bit silly.
by kcfighter on Nov 28, 2010 11:53 AM EST via mobile reply actions
shamrock and Sims
That is a reality show waiting to happen.
"I wish Anthony Pace was my father just so I could claim to be the fruit of his loins."
"Even Hulkamania wouldn't get you out of this hold"
"True strength is not always shown through victory. Stand up, try again and display strength of heart."
by the-gentle-way on Nov 28, 2010 11:58 AM EST via mobile up reply actions 1 recs
I heard that Shammy isn't the greatest trainer in the world.
I hope someone can elaborate, but I heard that he doesn’t like not being the top dog so he has a hard time training pros.
by SilverNBlackZach! on Nov 28, 2010 1:02 PM EST up reply actions
i heard he wasn't a very good teacher in 90's.
But that could have changed. With age often comes wisdom and peace.which are good to have when teaching.
His leg locks are top notch. I would check out a seminar if he came through town.
"I wish Anthony Pace was my father just so I could claim to be the fruit of his loins."
"Even Hulkamania wouldn't get you out of this hold"
"True strength is not always shown through victory. Stand up, try again and display strength of heart."
by the-gentle-way on Nov 28, 2010 1:27 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Ken's not all that articulate and is prone to saying overly controversial things
I don’t think anything involving him speaking for a living would be feasible. Plus, his main issue is that he’s pissed off all of his connections.
Bourke
was the same guy used as fodder for Tank Abbott in February last year…
“As for Abbott, who was last seen getting knocked out by Kimbo Slice last year, he knocked out Bourke in 29 seconds. That’s nothing unusual for Bourke, who has been knocked out in 11 seconds and in 17 seconds in the past. Bourke now has a career record of 8-12-1. Abbott improved his record to 10-14.”
http://www.mmafighting.com/2009/02/14/ken-shamrock-beats-ross-clifton-tank-abbott-beats-mike-bourke/
Really sad
I remember when I used to hold Ken Shamrock in such a high regard. But now it seems like that thought is a distant memory.
by nevergoasstomouth on Nov 28, 2010 2:24 PM EST reply actions
My first thought.
When a ball goes into a net, it only means something because we decide it means something. When somebody punches somebody in the face it always means something.
by lowellthehammer on Nov 28, 2010 2:44 PM EST up reply actions
Did he make the big money in MMA? no
I am sure that Vince McMahon paid him well however. I’m also sure if he wanted to he could probably go back into the WWF
The same WWE that is firing wrestlers?
And pro-wrestling is worse for his body than MMA.
there goes his undefeated record
we mutha fuckin thug life riders westsiiiide till we die
by cosmic fist technique on Nov 28, 2010 6:23 PM EST via mobile reply actions
between that leg kick TKO against Pedro Rizzo and now this….Shamrock’s body is just falling apart. that is the sad part, regardless of misspent money or whatever.
Gatti. Dekkers. Pele. Aoki. Kang. Vanderlei. Basillio. Harry Greb.
by theworldsoldestsport on Nov 28, 2010 11:29 PM EST reply actions
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