UFC 123 Recap and Analysis
by Jonathan Snowden on Nov 21, 2010 1:58 AM EST
in UFC Editorial
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It's always great for the main event to deliver, and UFC 123's top fight delivered in spades. There was talk all week long that Quinton "Rampage" Jackson hadn't trained hard. Talk that he wasn't ready for Lyoto Machida, that he didn't want to be a fighter anymore. Rampage silenced all those critics by pursuing Machida with a singular purpose for three rounds in one of the year's most evenly matched fights.
My only critique of this fight? It should have been longer. This is the perfect example of why it makes sense for all UFC main events to be five rounds. Jackson and Machida was just getting really interesting when the fight was abruptly stopped after 15 minutes. That fight needed 10 more minutes. Hopefully we'll get our two additional rounds in a rematch that the announcers and both fighters pushed heavily post fight.
This was a tremendous card from beginning to end. Some quick thoughts:
- Quinton cut off the ring well and immediately. He took the center of the cage and pushed Machida into the fence. Rampage initiated most of the clinches, dominated the pummel, and landed stronger punches throughout the first two rounds. It was a close fight, but I had it 29-28 Rampage.
- The third round was a perfect example of all MMA is capable of delivering. We had a furious display of striking, takedowns, submission attempts and defense, just great action from bell to bell. It was a shame it had to come to an end.
- I've been critical of B.J. Penn and I am not alone. Even one of his good friends told me this week that Penn is the most frustrating fighter in the sport. But when he is interested and motivated, Penn can still be one of the best the sport has ever seen. When he's not, it's a long night of lethargic boxing. This was Penn at his best, an emotional win that meant a lot for all the Penn fans in Hawaii.
- What's next for Penn is anyone's guess. Will he want to continue at welterweight? Or is a return to 155 pounds in the cards? It would be interesting to see Penn test himself against a welterweight like Carlos Condit as he pursues a third fight with Georges St. Pierre. If Penn does go back to 155 I'd really like to see him in a showcase fight to get fans excited about another run at the title. Donald Cerrone is the perfect victim.
- Phil Davis continues to impress. He manhandled a game Tim Boetsch, eventually securing a modified hammerlock now being called the "Mr. Wonderful." It's time for Davis to move out of the middle of the card and test himself against a serious fighter, but I suspect the UFC will let him simmer on the undercard for a bit. It might be the best thing for his career. A string of highlight reel wins will make him kind of a big deal when he does get the call to go to the top of the card.
- The only stinker of the night was Gerald Harris and newcomer Maiquel Falcão. And it's a great night of fights when that one stands out as particularly bad. Falcão looked great for two rounds before losing focus in the third. It was funny to hear announcer Joe Rogan turn on him as the third round went on. Lots of potential and I can't wait to see him back.
- George Sotiropoulos didn't need three knee braces and a pair of ankle sleeves to submit Joe Lauzon. He just needed superlative technique and the heart to survive a fast paced early attack from the Boston native. I hadn't been convinced by Sot before this fight. Now I'm a believer.
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I don’t see how this was some different BJ Penn. He tried the exact same thing against Edgar the 2nd time. He stormed across trying to overwhelm him with strikes. The difference? He was promptly thrown on his head.
Yeah it was a great win and it was awesome, but let’s be realistic.
His demeanor and attitude were completely different. Friends say he was into it like he hasn’t been in some time.
by Jonathan Snowden on Nov 21, 2010 1:17 AM EST up reply actions
That is what people say after half his fights.
BJ will never be able to beat Frankie Edgar if all things are equal and BJ doesn’t switch up his game plan. Against much slower opponents with weak stand up defense, and that have difficulty taking him down, BJ crushes them. His style is to beat you with his uncanny speed and reflexes and against Edgar he doesn’t match up well because he doesn’t change up his approach. He doesn’t use his natural size advantage against someone like Edgar, he fights him the same way he fights larger guys like Hughes, GSP even Machida. It has very little to do with BJ’s demeanor. He’s always had Hughes number. The only reason Hughes won the second fight was because of a freak injury that BJ had in the second round.
by Daniel Humire on Nov 21, 2010 1:25 AM EST up reply actions
They told me this before the fight. The Irons death really opened his eyes to his place in Hawaiian culture.
by Jonathan Snowden on Nov 21, 2010 1:26 AM EST up reply actions
Had no influence in the fight...
Hughes is just a terrific match up for him. Always has been. Always will be. Edgar is not.
by Daniel Humire on Nov 21, 2010 1:28 AM EST up reply actions
there was a visible difference in his demeanor for this fight than the Edgar fights. That is undeniable.
by Johnnynumber5 on Nov 21, 2010 1:33 AM EST up reply actions
Demeanor sure...
…If you mean he wasn’t doing the Gegard Mousasi impression before the fight I agree. But that is all hogwash it wouldn’t have mattered against Edgar. Penn said he was trying to stay as relaxed as possible against Edgar the second time around because the first time he gassed and didn’t want to gas again. But the bottom line is his style, where he relies on finesse and speed and technique just doesn’t work well against someone who is faster, more athletic and perhaps even has better stand up technique than him. But he tries to beat Edgar the same way he fights everyone else. It wasn’t until like the 4th round when Penn finally went for a takedown that he had some success. But he didn’t have the gas anymore to keep up the pace. Penn just doesn’t really adapt his style to who he’s fighting like say Anderson or GSP might. He fights everyone the same exact way. This style is perfect for fighters much slower than him with limited stand up defense and have trouble taking him down like Matt Hughes.
Penn can have the best training in the world, the best demeanor in the world if he fights Frankie Edgar the same way he fights everyone else he will always lose. Those are fights that are really Frankie’s to lose. Assuming he comes in tip top shape and is on point, he has Penn’s number. What Penn has to do to beat Edgar is to bully him, to outgrapple him, smother him against the cage, grind him down and use his natural size advantage. This is just not in BJ’s nature. But if he always tries to fight a fast man’s fight against Frankie he will always lose.
by Daniel Humire on Nov 21, 2010 5:34 AM EST up reply actions
How do you know that?
Iron’s was a friend of BJ who happens to be the same age. If one of my friends died like that I would get my shit together too.
What I mean is that...
…people are trying to chalk up Penn’s losses to Edgar to intangibles like ‘demeanor’ and ‘mindset’ and ‘attitude’. But it’s much simpler than that. It’s a matter of physics and statistics and probability more than anything. BJ fights a fast man’s fight he always has and he probably always will. He doesn’t adapt his style for anyone. Call it stubbornness or whatever, that’s just how he is. This style is just not good when your opponent is faster, more athletic than you can can stay unpredictable and has the skills to damage you. Frankie has weaknesses too, but BJ doesn’t try to exploit any of them when they fight. He tries to beat Frankie at his strengths and that is why he loses to Frankie. Against Hughes, his style always had Hughes at a disadvantage mainly because Hughes always struggles greatly to take BJ down. And if you force Hughes to fight a stand up fight his odds of winning greatly diminish. Especially against a far superior striker like BJ Penn…style make fights bro.
by Daniel Humire on Nov 21, 2010 5:38 AM EST up reply actions 2 recs
That may be true
but all I have to go on is what happened in the cage, and the fact remains he started his last fight in the exact same fashion. It seems as if ‘motivated BJ and unmotivated BJ’ is a parabole to ‘old Vitor and new Vitor’. When he dominates he’s motivated. When he doesn’t win early, gets worn down, and loses, he was lazy and not training.
by zY on Nov 21, 2010 1:43 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
It’s not some big secret BJ Penn isn’t always the hardest working guy in the gym. But,
Nevermind motivation … I’m talking specifically about his demeanor and confidence level. He seemed angry, didn’t give his corner guys hugs and looked genuinely mad at the world and ready to fight. His demeanor before the last Edgar fight and this fight were totally different. He seemed like he had a real chip on his shoulder.
I’m not making excuses for Penn or taking anyway anything from Edgar. He lost twice to Edgar and the second time he was dominated. Whether or not changing camps had an impact (seemed to help him for the two fights after the GSP fight) on him being “motivated” I did see a genuine killer in the octagon tonight from the time he was making his entrance walk.
by Johnnynumber5 on Nov 21, 2010 2:44 AM EST up reply actions
Rogan says stuff like “he’s looking to zombie his crackhead control into a Nigerian banana split!” but then his mind is totally blown by a hammerlock. What a character. I wish there was an adult in the booth like Randy to reel him in a bit sometimes.
by smoogy2 on Nov 21, 2010 1:19 AM EST reply actions 5 recs
A Nigerian Banana Split sounds like a painful sex move
And it made me laugh. Rec’d.
Michael Robinson leads the Seahawks in completion percentage, yards-per-attempt, and QB rating.
And I'd take Rogan over the crap that was Strikeforce last night
Even though Rogan definitely has a lingering high during his broadcasts.
For me it’s Rogan #1, Miletich #2, Florian/Couture #3.
Michael Robinson leads the Seahawks in completion percentage, yards-per-attempt, and QB rating.
Strikeforce was on last night?
Could have fooled me.
by Daniel Humire on Nov 21, 2010 1:26 AM EST up reply actions
Actually it was The Three Stooges
Zaromskis (Larry), Mauro (Mo), and Quadros (Curly Jo).
Michael Robinson leads the Seahawks in completion percentage, yards-per-attempt, and QB rating.
I was just talking about the guys I like
in regards to commentating. Imagine Rogan and Schiavello doing UFC together. Epic.
by Johnnynumber5 on Nov 21, 2010 2:46 AM EST up reply actions
Strikeforce’s Challengers crew is great.
by Jonathan Snowden on Nov 21, 2010 1:28 AM EST up reply actions
Quadros' face is horrifying
And Mauro is just way to hyperbolic and feels the need to shout over nothing.
Michael Robinson leads the Seahawks in completion percentage, yards-per-attempt, and QB rating.
They were really good on SFCS 11 and then not so much for SFCS 12. When Mauro sticks to his job title they work well, but sometimes he forgets he has two people paid to provide the color commentary and tries to do too much.
Rogan, on the other hand, is forced to do too much because Goldie is incapable of adding anything. So naturally his performances are all over the map.
i'll give goldberg some credit though, since about 117 he's been getting a little better analysis wise and doesn't draw a blank as often.
by destructivist on Nov 21, 2010 2:13 AM EST up reply actions
His analysis should be a product of his play by play commentator. But he is incapable of offering real play by play commentary. He has no feel for the action, especially standing. The only time he actually mentions specific techniques is when a corner shouts them out so he can repeat them verbatim. “He’s looking for the 3-2, Joe” is not a helpful comment when the viewing audience has never heard competent play by play commentary that would help them understand what a 3-2 is.
Yes absolutely, the guy has little to no insight in most cases. But I think we can all agree that this is why Zuffa keeps him around because it keeps things simple for the casual crowd.
by destructivist on Nov 21, 2010 3:05 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
They keep him around less because of that and more because that he does the job that he is intended to do well. That job is to shill advertisers products during the fights and get in their spots.
by VirtualBalboa on Nov 21, 2010 8:23 AM EST up reply actions
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Hey UFC4 go fuck yourself, how about that? Fucking punk, I was just asking for the source that says lesnar gets 5 mill a fight, it’s obvious one does not exist. Bunch of gabronis on a site pulling figures out of your ass.
by Garrett Bennicas
by ufc4 on Nov 21, 2010 12:17 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Mauro is making a case for being the worst guy in the business at this point and Quadros has gotten pretty bad too...
Miletich has gotten downright good though.
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by Brent Brookhouse on Nov 21, 2010 12:32 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
This.
Luke: What was our best moment?
Nate: When I banned Subo?
Luke: That was a good one.
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by Derek Suboticki on Nov 21, 2010 9:22 PM EST up reply actions
Falcão
should give 15% percent of his winnings to the other guy. he starts after about 3 minutes into the first round. tries to re apply a choke after a ref stops him to break because the round is over. takes almost all of the 3rd round off wtf. the other guy got his ass kicked but at least he didn’t stop trying.
Harris should give up 80% of his purse
For pretty much putting forth a crappy effort.
Michael Robinson leads the Seahawks in completion percentage, yards-per-attempt, and QB rating.
they should all give 100% of their purse to me.
Moisture is the essence of wetness.
by troy145 on Nov 21, 2010 1:29 AM EST up reply actions 2 recs
I didn't know you worked for the IRS...
Michael Robinson leads the Seahawks in completion percentage, yards-per-attempt, and QB rating.
I think Harris was doing well before he got rocked in the first. Then he seems to have gassed in the 2nd but I think that was moreless due to the fact he was a second from being unconscious at the end of the first. Also Falco held onto that hold at least 2 seconds after the bell. Not a Harris nuthugger just trying to say that its hard to go after it in the 3rd when he was beat on for 2 rounds and almost choked unconscious that must have taken a lot out of him. Also Falco impressed me not in the 3rd but he looked good in the 1st 2 rounds. Just my opinion.
by abnewf on Nov 21, 2010 1:32 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
WHY SPOUT LIES
he was done from the end of the first round and yet he was still coming forward. hurt and tired he kept trying. what was the others guys excuse for packpeddling for a almost a whole round. he could have took him out instead he got what he deserved BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
I thought Falcao's decision to jog the 3rd was ridiculous
But Harris was down 2 rounds and did almost nothing.
Michael Robinson leads the Seahawks in completion percentage, yards-per-attempt, and QB rating.
what was harris' strategy exactly? i think to falcao's credit he had gerald dazed throughout the fight.
by destructivist on Nov 21, 2010 2:14 AM EST up reply actions
I think he was afraid.
He couldn’t get the TD, and whenever he’d strike he’d get rocked and dropped. He had no method of winning.
I don’t know what was up with that. But what I’m saying is Joe Rogan was saying “He must know he’s down 2 rounds to 0”, “he has to do something” etc, etc. But at that point he just couldn’t. He just had nothing left he was gassed from almost being choked in the first, then defending the choke for most of the 2nd.
Not every 3 round main event is Rampage v. Machida. Plenty of them are Mir v. Cro Cop, too.
by Rich Hansen on Nov 21, 2010 1:22 AM EST reply actions 2 recs
We’ll see fewer of those stinkers with the bringing in of the lighter guys.
Moisture is the essence of wetness.
Except
I doubt those lighter guys would ever headline a PPV.
Michael Robinson leads the Seahawks in completion percentage, yards-per-attempt, and QB rating.
Those guys will be huge stars in two years or less. Book it, Dan-o.
Moisture is the essence of wetness.
It depends
I’d say yes if Faber and Aldo dominate their divisions.
Michael Robinson leads the Seahawks in completion percentage, yards-per-attempt, and QB rating.
I love Lauzon
but he needs to get with one of the good high school wrestling teams in Boston and have them work his cardio from now on. Any state champ wrestler could go harder, longer, than Lauzon. That ISNT what she said btw.
Moisture is the essence of wetness.
Not going to happen until he changes his attitude
A good friend of mine trains with Joe from time to time. I say time to time because my friend has excellent wrestling and jiu jitsu, but Joe stopped training with him because Joe was getting beaten by him in practice.
Pride goeth.
by AngryTwinkie on Nov 21, 2010 1:37 AM EST up reply actions
Not trying to be a tool...
But most of Joe’s game is wrestling and BJJ… if your boy is better than Lauzon at those things, he must be a headliner somewhere, right? Anyways, Joe trained in Hawaii for a few months with Urijah and BJ. Joe’s not a better wrestler than either and definitely not better at BJJ than BJ.
Moisture is the essence of wetness.
Are you trying to set up a a Penn/Cerrone fight to make subo suffer?
And what’s with Rogan getting all confused when Davis and Sot pull out the catch techniques?
Although it was great to hear Rogan basically admit that the sport takes back seat to the entertainment in the Falcao-Harris match.
by John Nash on Nov 21, 2010 1:29 AM EST via mobile reply actions
Well put Mr Snowden
You articulated the same feelings I had for this event.
Watching BJ come out with his angry eyes and pacing back and forth like a caged animal, I just knew he was going to finish that fight.
Rampage looked really good! What a great fight, too bad there werent 2 more rounds :(
From what I can tell, Machida had one of those losses that didn’t really push him back very much, but I would like to see him back in the win column again. I would personally give the fight a draw, but of course draws in MMA (unless there is a foul and a point deduction) just don’t exist.
The thing with Phil Davis is that while his standup is definitely improving, he kept throwing that same body kick that kept getting caught by Boetsch, which shows me that while I feel that Davis can hang and beat tougher competition, bringing him up at this pace will allow him to develop his striking much better.
I don’t know where Penn should go from here. Some said Penn vs Fitch or Shields in Welterweight. If Edgar loses to Maynard, then Penn should probably go back to Lightweight.
Falcao looked good for two rounds, and I thought that Harris was going to take this coming into the fight. That third round was a stinker.
Watch out for Barboza because he just looks like that prospect with amazing potential like an Oliviera. Those leg kicks and overall striking technique was good, and he looked to have some good wrestling.
Check out MMA For You at http://www.youtube.com/user/Gobusiness123 for MMA reviews, predictions, and analysis.
Hell froze over
I don’t tend to agree with Jonathan Snowden often but when I do…I prefer Dos XXs…
Well put,, sir. You made some great points…all of which I agree with.
Joe was hurt though. This one is different.
by Jonathan Snowden on Nov 21, 2010 1:37 AM EST up reply actions
Good night of fights
I thought Machida took it 29-28. I ain’t mad because I really like Rampage and it was awesome seeing him look good again. I lost it when he was going for the slam and then Machida got out of it.
What can you say about BJ tonight? He looked fantastic and brought down the house. Everyone I was watching the fight with went nuts. Will he be a champ again? Probably not unless he can get a lightweight title fight against Maynard but there are plenty of entertaining options for him.
I totally whiffed on Sot and Lauzon. I thought Lauzon would be able to keep a frenetic pace and win a highly entertaining decision but it seems like he just doesn’t have a good gas tank. He was working Stout in that first round then gassed and he fought fairly even with George in the first tonight but then he looked awful in the subsequent rounds. Sot vs Sherk sounds good to me.
Machida should have been more aggressive in the second round
And too bad nobody realized that was a knockdown.
www.ninjasplace.com
Botter says it’ll be BJ vs Fitch at 127.
http://twitter.com/#!/JeremyHeavyMMA/status/6233237881888768
Penn will face jon fitch in Sydney.10 minutes ago via Osfoora for iPhone[/quote]
WAR PENN!!!!
Don’t get LNPed to death.
Michael Robinson leads the Seahawks in completion percentage, yards-per-attempt, and QB rating.
That’s a horrible fight. I hope the smart people at the UFC rethink that.
by Jonathan Snowden on Nov 21, 2010 1:50 AM EST up reply actions
how can that be i thought fitch was signed to fight ellenberger
by destructivist on Nov 21, 2010 1:55 AM EST up reply actions
alright, i guess this becomes a title eliminator then?
by destructivist on Nov 21, 2010 2:09 AM EST up reply actions
Great night for me
9-2 record and $1,036 won on my Davis/Foster/Sot parlay.
I even picked Sot by sub 2.
Michael Robinson leads the Seahawks in completion percentage, yards-per-attempt, and QB rating.
3 things
1. we need 5 round non title matches. its in the unified rules now i believe, lets do it.
2. im no penn fan, but i would absolutely love to see penn vs sanchez rematch at 170, both guys are in similar positions career wise.
3.i made fucking cheddar on falcao.
I had Machida winning the first round...
…but seems like judges don’t count leg kicks. He clearly won the limited stand up in the first round. But much like his first fight against Shogun, they ignored his leg kicks and awarded the round to the guy coming forward taking the punishment.
The only thing I saw Rampage do well was the body slam style takedown in the second round and the uppercut. But besides that, he really did nothing to win the fight.
Those leg kicks were ineffective and weak. Page’s work on the cage was better than anything Machida did at distance.
by Jonathan Snowden on Nov 21, 2010 1:51 AM EST up reply actions
They were so ineffective that they kept Rampage out of punching range the entire first round
Whereas Rampage landed exactly ZERO effective punches in the first round. His most effective strike in the first round was the foot stomps because he actually made Machida move his feet.
by Daniel Humire on Nov 21, 2010 5:25 AM EST up reply actions
And Machida reversed him against the cage anyways
And Rampage quit clinching him and kept trying to knock him out Shogun style only from further and further away as the round progressed. The only effective strikes in the first round were Lyoto’s because he EFFECTIVELY kept Rampage at a distance while Rampage actively kept trying to close distance in the first round. All Rampage did right in the first round was continue to come forward.
The first round was a draw.
by Daniel Humire on Nov 21, 2010 5:27 AM EST up reply actions
I disagree with that
I didn’t think either guy landed much in the way of offense in round 1 to be a deciding factor. Jackson controlled the octagon, kept coming forward and initiated more dominant positions. The first two rounds were close but I gave rounds 1 & 2 to Rampage and round 3 to Machida. I didn’t see Machida doing so much more than Rampage that would merit getting the rounds based purely on striking.
by Johnnynumber5 on Nov 21, 2010 1:53 AM EST up reply actions
Machida controlled the distance and had the more effective striking in Rd. 1
Which is why he controlled the distance. By the end of the round, Rampage was literally throwing punches at kicking distance and hitting air. So there is the proof that Machida’s ‘ineffective’ and ‘weak’ kicks were actually effective. His knee to the body (hardest strike of the round) in particular. But Rampage was coming forward. So both have positives. Neither was a clear winner of the round.
by Daniel Humire on Nov 21, 2010 5:40 AM EST up reply actions
This card was probably my favorite UFC of the year ... maybe of all time
It had my two favorite fighteres of all time (’Page and Penn) getting big and well deserved wins as well as solid technique from most of the fights. Other than rd 3 in the harris vs falco fight. I straight up lost myself when Penn knocked Hughes stiff … even more than when Cain finished Brock.
I’m the first guy to give the UFC a hard time when they deserve it but I have to say they were really on top of their game tonight. Made me forget completely about the last card on spike. I watch all MMA and the gap between the defacto #2 and #3 North American MMA promotions (SF & Belllator) is staggering. Those other organizations are the equivalent of comparing the arena league to the NFL or KIA to BMW.
I also can’t say enough positive things about Phil Davis. The guy has all the making of a future champion and a 205 lb version of GSP. I think the inevitable titanic clash between he and Jon Jones for the LHW title in a few years will be one of the next great UFC trilogies. Phil just needs to keep plugging away at his striking and his takedowns will be just as unstopable as GSPs
That Barboza kid looked pretty sick as well. I saw a lot of Jose Aldo in him with his style … probably just less stopping power.
Yeah, Barboza was absolutely dominant
He was sick.
"I thought he was going to punch me and I was totally accepting of it. I was planning a reason to thank him if he did." Brian Wilson on Buster Posey
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WHO THE **** wanted to see 2 more rounds of Machida and Rampage? the first 2 were sleep-inducing enough.
Gatti. Dekkers. Pele. Aoki. Kang. Vanderlei. Basillio. Harry Greb.
by theworldsoldestsport on Nov 21, 2010 2:03 AM EST reply actions
I didn't find it boring at all...
more tense than anything in the first two rounds, but the third round was excellent.
Same here
Just because a fight isn’t action packed doesn’t mean it’s boring. I found watching both men trying to work vastly different strategies to be highly entertaining. Is it a fight I’d show someone new to the sport to get them jazzed up? Probably not but I enjoyed every second of it.
I enjoyed it.
If Derek Jeter clubbed a baby seal on earth day while wearing a mink coat and crocodile skin boots while burning tires on an iceberg, the reaction would be "Its OK Derek, you’re a Yankee." -First mammal to wear pants
Great write-up about the event. I think you’re putting a little more on BJ’s win than I would’ve. I think it says more about the condition of Matt Hughes chin than it does about BJ correcting the problems he had against Edgar. I think faster more diverse fighters like Edgar will always outstrike him and I think Edgar wins at this point 10/10 against BJ.
does anyone else see the obvious problem in calling for 5 round main event non-title fights AFTER THE FACT?
This site has had people banging that gong for a long ass time (most notably Mike Fagan)
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by Brent Brookhouse on Nov 21, 2010 12:36 PM EST up reply actions
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