What Does UFC 123: Rampage vs Machida Mean for the Light Heavyweight Title Picture?
by Nate Wilcox on Nov 16, 2010 10:51 AM EST
in UFC Analysis
Email
Print
On Saturday at UFC 123 we'll be treated to a rare non-title main event that actually has some significance when Quinton Jackson aka Rampage faces Lyoto Machida. But how much significance does this fight actually have?
Both men are former champions who held the belt for one successful title defense and then lost it in their second defense attempt. Both men are coming off a loss.
Dana White hasn't committed to a title shot for the winner, per MMA Junkie:
"I don't know," he told MMAjunkie.com. "The fight has to happen first (before I decide)."
..."The 205-pound division is so stacked with so many good fights," he said. "I'm waiting for this logjam to free up. [Rua's] knee is clogging this whole thing up. So once his knee is healed up, we're going to be putting on some sick 205-pound fights next year."
White is referring to champion Mauricio "Shogun" Rua's delicate knee which required surgery following his defeat of Machida at UFC 113. That's the third reconstructive surgery on Rua's knee in as many years.
Rua's first title defense will come against Rashad Evans, who defeated Rampage at UFC 114. Here's White talking to MMA Junkie about Rua's knee and the timing of that fight:
White believes a yet-to-be-announced March card in the United Arab Emirates (expected to serve as UFC 128) is the most likely date for the fight. Ultimately, the date will depend on the status of Rua's knee, which he had surgically repaired this past June. Rua's knees have proven troublesome for the past few years of his career, but White believes the issue may now finally be resolved.
"He's had these knee problems before, and he got his knee done in Brazil and then never did the therapy he was supposed to do," White told MMAjunkie.com (www.mmajunkie.com). "(He) always tried to come back too soon. The guy who did his knee this time is the best. He might even be the best in the world, and Shogun's done all the right things - done the right rehab, taken time off, didn't come back training too soon.
The most obvious factor in determining whether or not the winner of Rampage vs Machida gets an immediate title shot is the outcome of the fights. If Jackson wins, it's highly likely that he'll be tapped for a title fight regardless of who wins the Shogun vs Evans bout. Jackson is an old rival of Shogun's from Pride, but UFC fans have never seen the two face off. Shogun vs Rampage 2 will be an easy sell given Rampage's popularity and the ability of the UFC to put their 2005 bout on Spike TV numerous times to hype the rematch.
Rampage vs Rashad at UFC 114 was one of the UFC's best ever selling PPVs, I expect no hesitancy on White's part in booking that rematch either.
Machida is a different beast. He's already faced Shogun twice, once scraping by with a controversial decision win and being definitively KTFO'd in the rematch. So if Lyoto gets past Rampage, he'll have to be rooting for Evans to use his wrestling to take the title from Shogun. Given Machida's utter deconstruction of Rashad at UFC 98, his claim on a title shot will be hard to refuse.
White and UFC matchmaker Joe Silva have plenty of other options in the stacked light heavyweight division. Veteran stars Rich Franklin and Forrest Griffin will face off at UFC 126. While neither man has an exactly compelling case for title contention, the dollar value of booking them against Shogun or Rashad would have to be appealing to Zuffa brass.
Young guns Jon Jones and Ryan Bader will meet on that same Superbowl weekend UFC 126 event. They have the opposite problem. A win would certainly render either fighter worthy of challenging for the title, but neither fighter has proven to have the marquee value to headline a major card.
I think the most likely scenario is that Machida will beat Rampage and Rashad will beat Shogun, making Evans vs Machida 2 the obvious next title fight. That creates a golden opportunity for the UFC to showcase the winner of Jones vs Bader against the winner of Franklin vs Griffin with a title shot promised to the winner.
115 comments
|
1 recs |
Do you like this story?
Comments
I think the most likely scenario is that Machida will beat Rampage and Rashad will beat Shogun, making Evans vs Machida 2 the obvious next title fight.
I wonder if that is what’s going to happen. I don’t see Rampage winning this fight at all but Shogun/Evans I think could go either way. You’re probably right to lean there if for no other reason than the knee surgery though.
Good article. I like this fight a lot.
Hope Shogun comes back strong
but I am really concerned about about laying on top of him for 5 rounds and getting the UD
by mmablitzkrieg on Nov 16, 2010 11:00 AM EST up reply actions
YEs, because that's what Rashad does. Just "lay on people"
Which he hasn’t really done…ever.
Reppin' the NYMMAI.
Black Lesnar aka Slap ya Favorite MMA Writer
Follow me on Twitter
Read me at WatchKalibRun . Imma write til the wheels fall off.
by S.C. Michaelson on Nov 16, 2010 11:19 AM EST up reply actions
it definately isnt fair to say that
he mixes strikes and takedowns very well and is active on the gound
if thiago silva was a little smarter and pressed rashad more though he woulda knocked him out, and rampage also had a solid chance to ko him
rashads chin worries me and i dont like his chances in a 5 rounder with a super dangerous striker in shogun
"I have smoked weed with alot of UFC champions" - Joe Rogan
Like how Evans mixed in 6 standing strikes during a 15 minute fight against Silva.
The 3 ground strikes he added really helped keep Silva off balance too.
by truck on Nov 16, 2010 11:48 AM EST up reply actions 7 recs
good point
been awhile since ive seen that fight, he was more active against rampage though
regardless i think shogun knocks his ass out, i cant stand rashad
"I have smoked weed with alot of UFC champions" - Joe Rogan
I fight = people? That's fuzzy math
Reppin' the NYMMAI.
Black Lesnar aka Slap ya Favorite MMA Writer
Follow me on Twitter
Read me at WatchKalibRun . Imma write til the wheels fall off.
by S.C. Michaelson on Nov 16, 2010 5:50 PM EST up reply actions
To be fair
you said he had never done it.
"Don’t quote old fucks to me" – Brent Brookhouse
by Chris Barton on Nov 16, 2010 6:29 PM EST up reply actions
That is exactly all he did against Thiago Silva...
He took him down and laid on him as much as possible.
1 fight
Reppin' the NYMMAI.
Black Lesnar aka Slap ya Favorite MMA Writer
Follow me on Twitter
Read me at WatchKalibRun . Imma write til the wheels fall off.
by S.C. Michaelson on Nov 16, 2010 5:50 PM EST up reply actions
didnt he geg like 12 takedowns against silva and throw like 8 punches on the ground?
"Even Hulkamania wouldn't get you out of this hold"
"True strength is not always shown through victory. Stand up, try again and display strength of heart."
by the-gentle-way on Nov 16, 2010 12:44 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
I’m not confident that we’ll ever see the same Shogun again. 1 reconstructive knee surgery is bad enough, but 3?!?! I get the whole “best surgeon in the world” talk, but it’s still gotta be a rough recovery
For real, he’d be retired if this was any other sport. Hopefully his rehab goes good and he doesn’t lose any of his trademark athleticism.
i had one reconstruction
which was pretty severe and ive never been the same athletically since
i cant even imagine 3 surgeries
"I have smoked weed with alot of UFC champions" - Joe Rogan
around 6-8 months before i felt comfortable on it again
and a pretty big loss in explosiveness, flexibility, and agility
although i changed my workout habits after the injury cause i was done with football, so i just do cardio, jiu jitsu, and boxing now where before it was all about heavy powerlifting and speed training so that probably factors in as well
"I have smoked weed with alot of UFC champions" - Joe Rogan
3 reconstructive surgeries ....
Those surgeries put a bullseye on his knee, which doesn’t even need a direct hit to become re-injured. I think I would lose every last hair on my head if i had to wait a year every time Shogun defended the belt but had to nurse a knee as a result
Defend it, then retire shogun, so you’re not in a wheel chair the rest of your life
You know Joe, Brandon Vera is considered to be a Heavyweight George St.Pierre because he just comes, comes, and comes again... -Mike Goldberg, UFC 57
Cheick Kongo looks like a cross between Evander Holyfield and pop singer Seal!
Melvin Guilard looks like a little Kevin Randelman! UFC 62/64
-Mike "All black people look alike to me" Goldberg
by Jonnycaz2.0 on Nov 16, 2010 12:53 PM EST up reply actions
let' wait and see what happens
there is no reason to think he’d need to get further surgeries at all, if doctors are clearing him to fight I’m sure his knee is fine. a retired Shogun is a dent in my MMA!
"whether or not you can ever become great at something, you can always become better at it. Don’t ever forget that. and don't say; ‘oh I’ll never be good’. you can become better. then one day, you'll wake up and you will find out how good you became having transcended whatever limits you might have thought you couldn't pass"
--Neil deGrasse Tyson
No more Number One Contender figts!
I am sick to death of hearing about how someone is going to be “given a title shot if they beat X”. It’s killing me.
All I see anymore is people fighting to win the rounds, and not actually putting an exclamation point on the fact they should be a contender.
If you need examples, please see:
Kos (v Daley)
Evans (a shining example v Rampage)
Fitch (v Alves)
Okami (v Marquardt)
I could keep going, but you get the idea. Let’s go back to the days of getting your title shot after you have actually earned it…rather than done just enough to get it.
I really doubt any of the fighters in the fights you mentioned would have fought differently if it wasn’t a contender fight. Fitch and Okami especially… the way they fought in those fights, that’s how they always fight.
The worst #1 contender in recent memory was definitely KenFlo v. Maynard at UFC118.
I don’t support #1 contender fights either, though. I would support them if they were 5 rounds, because every example you mentioned (well, maybe not Kos v. Daley) I’d have loved to see go longer.
oh man
here’s to hoping Forrest beats Franklin and somehow works his way back to a title shot, Shogun deserves a rematch to clear his name!
"whether or not you can ever become great at something, you can always become better at it. Don’t ever forget that. and don't say; ‘oh I’ll never be good’. you can become better. then one day, you'll wake up and you will find out how good you became having transcended whatever limits you might have thought you couldn't pass"
--Neil deGrasse Tyson
clear his name?
that fight like Shogun-Machida 2; had a definitive finish
by Kevin Jennison J. Zametov-St Pierre on Nov 16, 2010 10:45 AM EST up reply actions 2 recs
it can be argued
that factors played into that, but I’m not about to debate that again, I just hope he can get a rematch down in the future. btw, that’s a long ass name you got that there :p
"whether or not you can ever become great at something, you can always become better at it. Don’t ever forget that. and don't say; ‘oh I’ll never be good’. you can become better. then one day, you'll wake up and you will find out how good you became having transcended whatever limits you might have thought you couldn't pass"
--Neil deGrasse Tyson
yeah it is haha, my friends usually just call me KJJ
i think a rematch would be a good fight tho. ive learned to never count that crazy Griffin out
by Kevin Jennison J. Zametov-St Pierre on Nov 16, 2010 10:57 AM EST up reply actions
Griffin appeared to be just too big for Shogun. The reach and height difference seemed to hurt Shogun in the striking department.
Shogun just foolishly underestimated Griffin
And thought he could handle him at far less than 100%…hopefully he has learned his lesson.
"Sometimes I wonder if the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on, or by imbeciles who really mean it."
-Mark Twain
"If I tell you I'm good, you would probably think I'm boasting. If I tell you I'm no good, you know I'm lying..."
-Bruce Lee
by The American Ronin on Nov 16, 2010 11:49 AM EST up reply actions
Only Shogun uhggers make those excuses, I mean factors
You step in the cage, it’s as is. Just like a used car.
Reppin' the NYMMAI.
Black Lesnar aka Slap ya Favorite MMA Writer
Follow me on Twitter
Read me at WatchKalibRun . Imma write til the wheels fall off.
by S.C. Michaelson on Nov 16, 2010 11:20 AM EST up reply actions
yes, I’m a proud Shogun nutthugger, and to you I say… whatever…
"whether or not you can ever become great at something, you can always become better at it. Don’t ever forget that. and don't say; ‘oh I’ll never be good’. you can become better. then one day, you'll wake up and you will find out how good you became having transcended whatever limits you might have thought you couldn't pass"
--Neil deGrasse Tyson
Don’t forget that Griffin had legit factors before that fight.
- - - - -
VEe is ANIMated!
by VeeisAnimated on Nov 16, 2010 12:48 PM EST up reply actions
which one?
"whether or not you can ever become great at something, you can always become better at it. Don’t ever forget that. and don't say; ‘oh I’ll never be good’. you can become better. then one day, you'll wake up and you will find out how good you became having transcended whatever limits you might have thought you couldn't pass"
--Neil deGrasse Tyson
if you're talking about the elbow injury
I’m aware of that, I just think a knee injury would play a bigger factor in training.
"whether or not you can ever become great at something, you can always become better at it. Don’t ever forget that. and don't say; ‘oh I’ll never be good’. you can become better. then one day, you'll wake up and you will find out how good you became having transcended whatever limits you might have thought you couldn't pass"
--Neil deGrasse Tyson
I think
If everyone fights with injuries of varying degrees and if you aren’t fit to be in the cage then you shouldn’t fight, once those doors close, no excuses.
"So, while you're taking a break from the UFC, hanging out at some lame party that your girlfriend dragged you to, I'll man up and watch some goddamn fights like a goddamn adult."
- Mike Fagan
Support independent artists
http://worldisart365.blogspot.com/
See, this is why I’m not really trying to get back into this debate. Shogun made no excuses and has said in different interviews when asked that "Forrest was the better athlete that night", I however don’t think injuries are created the same, and I do think it played a factor in their fight. The dude gassed way too much, and the reason for that is because he couldn’t train well enough, and the reason for that was his bummed knee. The fight was legit, Forrest won, he didn’t make excuses, I did. I started this comment bracket by only wishing he could potentially get a rematch so both guys can go at it 100% and he can clear his name (IMO he wins that fight 99/100). That’s only my opinion, people who think Forrest can win in a rematch as well or if they think the injury played no factor into the fight is fine with me too, I don’t really care, I just want to see a rematch :p
"whether or not you can ever become great at something, you can always become better at it. Don’t ever forget that. and don't say; ‘oh I’ll never be good’. you can become better. then one day, you'll wake up and you will find out how good you became having transcended whatever limits you might have thought you couldn't pass"
--Neil deGrasse Tyson
Yeah, lets stop with the excuses already
They don’t change the past or the future, they just make you seem unable to see reality clearly.
Fair enough
Don’t get me wrong, I’m not saying injuries weren’t a factor and not all injuries are created equal, there’s just two things about the talk after this fight that bother me:
1) Forrest Griffin can never seem to get credit for anything. His two biggest wins are marred by Shogun’s knee and a close decision that some people thought should have gone Rampage’s way. Forrest Griffin’s size, work rate and tenacity create problems for just about anyone he fights and it doesn’t seem absurd to me to suggest that he’d win rematches with either fighter.
2) Injuries play a role in every fight, something a lot of fight fans, not necesarily you in particular, can’t grasp.
"So, while you're taking a break from the UFC, hanging out at some lame party that your girlfriend dragged you to, I'll man up and watch some goddamn fights like a goddamn adult."
- Mike Fagan
Support independent artists
http://worldisart365.blogspot.com/
Forrest won that fight
nothing will change that :p
"whether or not you can ever become great at something, you can always become better at it. Don’t ever forget that. and don't say; ‘oh I’ll never be good’. you can become better. then one day, you'll wake up and you will find out how good you became having transcended whatever limits you might have thought you couldn't pass"
--Neil deGrasse Tyson
By the way Orcus, I stil think Griffin will give Shogun some problems BUT NO WAY he subs him again.
- - - - -
VEe is ANIMated!
by VeeisAnimated on Nov 16, 2010 2:14 PM EST up reply actions
if they ever come to fight again
we shall make a sig bet :p
"whether or not you can ever become great at something, you can always become better at it. Don’t ever forget that. and don't say; ‘oh I’ll never be good’. you can become better. then one day, you'll wake up and you will find out how good you became having transcended whatever limits you might have thought you couldn't pass"
--Neil deGrasse Tyson
she’s the man!
"whether or not you can ever become great at something, you can always become better at it. Don’t ever forget that. and don't say; ‘oh I’ll never be good’. you can become better. then one day, you'll wake up and you will find out how good you became having transcended whatever limits you might have thought you couldn't pass"
--Neil deGrasse Tyson
Shogun himself made no excuses, but
we are just stating the obvious here. Specifically, it was obvious in the Griffin and Coleman fights that Rua didn’t have anywhere near the cardio he showed in the first Machida fight, and that is key.
Either Rua is able to take the time and come back at or near 100% cardio-wise or he won’t, but I am hopeful he learned his lessons from the Griffin and Coleman fights – that his talent alone in not going to be enough – and that he will not attempt to come back too soon, regardless of any organizational pressure.
"Sometimes I wonder if the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on, or by imbeciles who really mean it."
-Mark Twain
"If I tell you I'm good, you would probably think I'm boasting. If I tell you I'm no good, you know I'm lying..."
-Bruce Lee
by The American Ronin on Nov 16, 2010 2:06 PM EST up reply actions
exactly
it was obvious in the Griffin and Coleman fights that Rua didn’t have anywhere near the cardio he showed in the first Machida fight, and that is key
not only that, but throughout his whole career, he never breathed that hard in fights before.
"whether or not you can ever become great at something, you can always become better at it. Don’t ever forget that. and don't say; ‘oh I’ll never be good’. you can become better. then one day, you'll wake up and you will find out how good you became having transcended whatever limits you might have thought you couldn't pass"
--Neil deGrasse Tyson
Totally agree here. I’m looking at Tim Sylvia’s back and Anderson Silva’s ribs.
- - - - -
VEe is ANIMated!
by VeeisAnimated on Nov 16, 2010 2:13 PM EST up reply actions
yep
:p
"whether or not you can ever become great at something, you can always become better at it. Don’t ever forget that. and don't say; ‘oh I’ll never be good’. you can become better. then one day, you'll wake up and you will find out how good you became having transcended whatever limits you might have thought you couldn't pass"
--Neil deGrasse Tyson
hashad is the worst ever for shogun stylastically
"How you expect to run with the wolves come night when you spend all day sparring with the puppies" - Omar Little
by The Omaplatapus on Nov 16, 2010 10:36 AM EST reply actions
stylistically
"How you expect to run with the wolves come night when you spend all day sparring with the puppies" - Omar Little
by The Omaplatapus on Nov 16, 2010 10:37 AM EST up reply actions
As long as Evans takes Shogun down and keeps him down. He really wasn’t able to keep a big Thiago Silva down and I think Shogun is just as crafty on the floor.
- - - - -
VEe is ANIMated!
by VeeisAnimated on Nov 16, 2010 11:01 AM EST up reply actions
Shogun
has elite sweeps, and top control is the weakest point in Rashad’s MMA Wrestling game imo. In a 3-rounder, Rashad probably grinds out the UD, but in a 5-rounder, I think a healthy Rua tires out Rashad even from the bottom, ultimately leading to a KO/TKO in the 4th or 5th.
"Sometimes I wonder if the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on, or by imbeciles who really mean it."
-Mark Twain
"If I tell you I'm good, you would probably think I'm boasting. If I tell you I'm no good, you know I'm lying..."
-Bruce Lee
by The American Ronin on Nov 16, 2010 12:09 PM EST up reply actions
Conditioning would be key in that fight.
If you watch the Evans / Silva fight, Evans finished 100% of his attempted takedowns in round one. He landed something like 3 of 7 in round two and 1 of 5 or 6 in round 3.
The takedowns are taxing on both Evans and his opponent. Shogun can’t come back in less than top condition if he wants to avoid being laid on.
If he can keep the fight standing and / or get up off the ground repeatedly, it is only a matter of time before Evans gets put to sleep.
Agreed, and I'll take it a step further...
There is essentially a 0% chance that Rashad finishes Rua via GnP or submission and if Rua comes in with (or close to) the sort of cardio he showed in the first Machida fight, I really think that by no later than the end of the 3rd (and perhaps much sooner) Rashad will be so much more worn down than Rua that his takedowns will be stuffed and he will then get KTFO.
As you said, conditioning will be key, and if Rua is at 90% or more of what he had in the first Machida fight, he wins via KO/TKO. If he doesn’t come in at that level, Rashad gets the UD.
Neither guy cuts any real amount of weight, so they will be within 5 pounds of one another in the cage.
"Sometimes I wonder if the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on, or by imbeciles who really mean it."
-Mark Twain
"If I tell you I'm good, you would probably think I'm boasting. If I tell you I'm no good, you know I'm lying..."
-Bruce Lee
by The American Ronin on Nov 16, 2010 12:36 PM EST up reply actions
We see this fight playing out the same way.
- - - - -
VEe is ANIMated!
by VeeisAnimated on Nov 16, 2010 12:50 PM EST up reply actions
if Rua comes in with (or close to) the sort of cardio he showed in the first Machida fight
I agree, but my only comment is that the Machida fight was very slow paced and methodical. I think he had to dig deeper in the fight against Little Nog. Fighting through take downs and against Rashad’s body weight will be a little tougher than the Machida fight was. Rua has to be in tip top shape.
Winner of Griffin/Franklin vs Winner of Bones/Bader to start sorting out who else gets up there is a great opportunity for the UFC.
One way or another it’s going to be an entertaining young fighter taking on an established UFC draw
by Superstitiousmma on Nov 16, 2010 10:55 AM EST reply actions
That is a great idea in theory
But if Jones really won’t fight Rashad I don’t think they can risk that since Jones would be the prohibitive favorite to come out of that group of four (Jones, Bader, Franklin, Griffin).
"Sometimes I wonder if the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on, or by imbeciles who really mean it."
-Mark Twain
"If I tell you I'm good, you would probably think I'm boasting. If I tell you I'm no good, you know I'm lying..."
-Bruce Lee
by The American Ronin on Nov 16, 2010 12:11 PM EST up reply actions
Jones might come out on top of that group, but for them to fight Rashad would need to come out on top of his next two fights too (not an easy task). In my mind that outcome is attempting to guess ahead of the game too far, and it wouldn’t make sense to put off some solid matchmaking now on the small chance you run into a minor complication later (which incidentally we’d still run into if Rashad held the title and Bones kept winning)
by Superstitiousmma on Nov 16, 2010 2:19 PM EST up reply actions
I agree
It just can’t be announced as #1 contender fights because of that risk, as Dana re-learned with Fitch-Alves. Then again, I’m not particularly in favor of guaranteed title shot fights in general, or they should at least have a finishing component attached for them to be a “guaranteed” title shot.
"Sometimes I wonder if the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on, or by imbeciles who really mean it."
-Mark Twain
"If I tell you I'm good, you would probably think I'm boasting. If I tell you I'm no good, you know I'm lying..."
-Bruce Lee
by The American Ronin on Nov 16, 2010 2:53 PM EST up reply actions
Also
If the winner of Jones-Bader is to face the winner of Griffin-Franklin as I think they should, they will likely be ready to have that fight around the same time as Rua-Evans finally happens (or within a few weeks at least).
Of course, if Machida beats Rampage as he should, and Rashad beats Rua (as he might), a back door way to a Jones title fight is by giving Rashad Machida next, then Jones would face Machida for the title since Machida beats Rashad 9/10 times.
"Sometimes I wonder if the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on, or by imbeciles who really mean it."
-Mark Twain
"If I tell you I'm good, you would probably think I'm boasting. If I tell you I'm no good, you know I'm lying..."
-Bruce Lee
by The American Ronin on Nov 16, 2010 2:57 PM EST up reply actions
Once Machide and Bones win their next fights
Surely they face each other for “No1 Contender”
"I don't worry much about losing. What's so bad about losing? I'll fight again, I'll still get paid and hot chicks will still have sex with me for no good reason."
*Machida
"I don't worry much about losing. What's so bad about losing? I'll fight again, I'll still get paid and hot chicks will still have sex with me for no good reason."
i'm thinking (hoping)...
That the winner of machida / Jackson will fight the winner of griffin / Franklin. The loser will fight the loser of the aforementioned fights and the winner of Jones / bader will fight the winner of shogun / Evans. Hope so anyway!
by Joe Obo on Nov 16, 2010 11:01 AM EST via mobile reply actions
It really does depend on how the the two fights play out. IMO, I think the UFC would really get behind Rampage and Shogun winning their matches. I could see them making that match and playing off their first fight in Pride. Rashad/Rampage and Rashad/Machida might also get some love if the UFC can’t find a more compelling match-up than those. The least likely rematch coming out of those two fights is Shogun/Machida. I could see them passing on this after we’ve already seen these guys for the title twice now even if a rubber match is due. They might let Machida rack up a couple more wins and let someone else get a title shot in the meantime – maybe Randy since Rua seems to be keen on fighting him, or maybe more likely Jones should he get past Bader.
It really does depend on how the the two fights play out. IMO, I think the UFC would really get behind Rampage and Shogun winning their matches.
Do you mean that’s what they’d want to happen? I agree that this makes sense…but if they really wanted Rampage to fight Shogun again I feel like they wouldn’t have given him Machida. That’s a really tough fight for anyone.
by BurtBacharach on Nov 16, 2010 11:17 AM EST up reply actions
Rampage would have to face Machida eventually someday anyway, and who else would you have had him fight?
Me? No clue. I’m just saying the UFC could have tried to set up a rematch with Forrest or a fight with Franklin or something like that. If they want to make a fight they tend to make that fight. At the same time this is actually much more of a legit matchup which I am very grateful for.
by BurtBacharach on Nov 16, 2010 12:27 PM EST up reply actions
Yeah, I do think that’s what they’d want to happen. About him fighting Machida though…who knows, maybe they think he really can win that fight? I’m not sure who else could have been substituted for Machida to better set up Rampage/Shogun II, to be honest. I don’t think Forrest or Randy was available at the time they set it up. I don’t think they would have wanted to go there with Bader or Jones yet. Maybe Franklin would have worked though?
Maybe it's a sensible match up?
And they have a plan for either fighter winning?
It’s two top five fighters coming off a loss, two former champions, the fight makes sense. There is no plan for a build to one particular fight. There’s a plan for building credible contenders which is done by making competitive matches something Joe Silva and co do quite well.
"So, while you're taking a break from the UFC, hanging out at some lame party that your girlfriend dragged you to, I'll man up and watch some goddamn fights like a goddamn adult."
- Mike Fagan
Support independent artists
http://worldisart365.blogspot.com/
Sure it's a sensible match-up
I wouldn’t doubt that they have a plan for either fighter winning, I’m merely acknowledging that the UFC would likely find the match-up of Shogun vs. Rampage an attractive one, and that they probably have no interest in a Shogun/Machida III at this point in time. Again, it all depends on the outcome of certain fights that haven’t taken place yet.
completely off topic
but KTFO’d has always bugged me… Knock The Fuck Outed? Doesn’t make sense.
www.mmalinker.com
See also: people saying “RPMs”.
None more gangster.
"What if I told you yut yut Devil Dog Semper Fi oohrah?"
I wish there was an edit button this site
Knocked The Fuck Outed
KTFO’d still doesn’t make sense….
I’m still not sure why I’m perpetuating this.
www.mmalinker.com
by exsanguinator on Nov 16, 2010 7:26 PM EST up reply actions
you are right
KHTFO is knock him the fuck out…
"Sometimes I wonder if the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on, or by imbeciles who really mean it."
-Mark Twain
"If I tell you I'm good, you would probably think I'm boasting. If I tell you I'm no good, you know I'm lying..."
-Bruce Lee
by The American Ronin on Nov 16, 2010 7:44 PM EST up reply actions
the most likely scenario is that Machida will beat Rampage and Rashad will beat Shogun, making Evans vs Machida 2 the obvious next title fight. That creates a golden opportunity for the UFC to showcase the winner of Jones vs Bader against the winner of Franklin vs Griffin with a title shot promised to the winner.
If Jones gets past Bader and the winner of Forrest and Rich, and Rashad beats Shogun, we’re going to have a Jackson camp stalemate :(
If its really true that they won’t fight one another, and I can’t imagine Rashad wanting any part of Jones, then the UFC is stuck in the situation where they can’t announce that the winner of Jones-Bader gets a title shot.
They could (and should imo) announce in the pre-fight run-up that the winner of Jones-Bader gets the winner of Griffin-Franklin – it is the best way to get some name recognition built up for the yound guys, and I see no way Griffin or Franklin could beat Machida, Rua or Jones.
In fact, in the highly unlikely event that Rampage somehow beats Machida, then that scenario makes the most sense (along with giving Rampage a title shot against the winner of Rashad-Rua without any other fights).
Should Machida win, I think he will get the winner of Jones-Bader and the winner of Franklin-Griffin gets a title shot next. Never mind that either Machida or Jones would destroy Griffin or Franklin.
At the end of the day, the UFC does not want Rua-Machida 3 just yet, and that fact + Rashad’s unwillingness to fight Jon Jones leaves them with their hands somewhat tied as far as pre-announcing upcoming title shots.
"Sometimes I wonder if the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on, or by imbeciles who really mean it."
-Mark Twain
"If I tell you I'm good, you would probably think I'm boasting. If I tell you I'm no good, you know I'm lying..."
-Bruce Lee
by The American Ronin on Nov 16, 2010 12:28 PM EST up reply actions
What is up with that racist pic?
Rampage isn’t that dark. You can barely see the brother.
Reppin' the NYMMAI.
Black Lesnar aka Slap ya Favorite MMA Writer
Follow me on Twitter
Read me at WatchKalibRun . Imma write til the wheels fall off.
by S.C. Michaelson on Nov 16, 2010 11:21 AM EST reply actions
When I first saw it I was wonder why Quentin's head was floating in space
If Derek Jeter clubbed a baby seal on earth day while wearing a mink coat and crocodile skin boots while burning tires on an iceberg, the reaction would be "Its OK Derek, you’re a Yankee." -First mammal to wear pants
*was wondering
If Derek Jeter clubbed a baby seal on earth day while wearing a mink coat and crocodile skin boots while burning tires on an iceberg, the reaction would be "Its OK Derek, you’re a Yankee." -First mammal to wear pants
the new voice for this guy
Twitter @i_c_u_hater
http://dreamthemez.wordpress.com
http://dreamthemez.unfilteredmma.com
http://fightlife.unfilteredmma.com
by Thats It For you! on Nov 16, 2010 12:39 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
they both destroy stars
sorry Chuck :(
by Str8_right on Nov 16, 2010 3:38 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
why does Machida have two bodies
horrible photoshop job by whoever did that
@TylerTreese on twitter
check out my site @IWannaPolka
by TylerTreese on Nov 16, 2010 11:44 AM EST up reply actions
It looks like one of those cheesey family portraits
Where your face is set inside your profile.
"I am a man who pisses largely and frequently, which they say is a sign of great mental activity" -Henry Miller-
Contributor at cagepages.com Come check us out.
Too soon
I don’t think either guy gets an immediate title shot. Pushing them back in there right away feels extremely narrow minded to me. It’s not as if 205 is hurting for talent. This isn’t Strikeforce. If it were to happen the only rematch that sounds good to me is Rua-Jackson but giving Jackson the title shot right away I think cheapens the rest of the division. That said, Rua-Jackson is a highly marketable fight.
Jackson has the most distance from the belt right now as well, losing it in July 08 to Griffin and having three fights since. The Machida-Rua storyline took a very long time to unfold and Machida getting a title shot right away after losing the belt (twice, to many eyes) is pretty inappropriate. He just fought Rua twice and in the fight before that he fought and smashed Evans. If that happened you could set is as the dictionary definition of a circlejerk. Gotta get some new blood in there.
I think the appropriate thing both timing-wise and matchmaking-wise is the winner of this fight getting a title eliminator (officially or otherwise) to decide to the next contender for Rua or Evans.
"One thing I will never do is I will never say never." -Dana White
Should Rampage somehow win, I think he gets a title shot next regardless of who wins, based on his history with both guys and his PPV drawing ability. In that scenario, I think the winner of Griffin-Franklin gets the winner of Jones-Bader for the next title shot.
Should Machida win I hope he gets the winner of Jones-Bader, but I suspect he gets the winner of Griffin-Franklin instead, then it depends on how Rua-Rashad plays out.
The UFC is going to try to align things such that there are “name” guys with drawing power involved no matter what. Regardless, I don’t think the UFC wants a situation where Jones is potentially the next #1 contender awaiting the winner of a Rashad-Rua title fight, nor do they want another Shogun-Machida title fight unless they have run through everyone else first.
Personally, I think Machida beats Rampage rather easily, and Jones beats Bader rather easily. Not sure about Griffin-Franklin, but either guy loses to Machida or Jones, so I don’t see it going that way.
I would take Rashad over Rua in a 3-rounder all day long, but in a 5-rounder, if Shogun shows up at or near 100% cardio and health wise, I think he wears Rashad down even from the bottom. Rua has elite sweeps and Rashad’s top control is the biggest hole in his MMA Wrestling game by far IMO, so I think eventually he gets worn down enough that Shogun can start avoiding being taken down by late in round 3 or in round 4 which then results in Evans getting KTFO sometime in round 4 or 5.
"Sometimes I wonder if the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on, or by imbeciles who really mean it."
-Mark Twain
"If I tell you I'm good, you would probably think I'm boasting. If I tell you I'm no good, you know I'm lying..."
-Bruce Lee
by The American Ronin on Nov 16, 2010 12:07 PM EST reply actions
Aww come on, Machida can defeate Rampage but NOT rather easily. Rampage’s chin has a strong argument. With that said, Bader will not be easily disposed of by Jon Jones. I just don’t see that happening either.
I can imagine Rampage bitching about he needs another tune up fight before getting a title shot against the winner of Rua/Evans.
- - - - -
VEe is ANIMated!
by VeeisAnimated on Nov 16, 2010 12:53 PM EST up reply actions
Its not that I think Machida comes in, tosses Rampage all over the cage before throwing him down and pounding him out a la Overeem-Rogers, but I think that he is the single worst match-up stylistically for Rampage at LHW, and I think he gets a fairly easy UD without ever truly being in real danger. Of course, if this were Rampage circa 2006 this would be a much more interesting fight.
I think Bader is a somewhat lesser version of Rashad (albeit with better top control), and while he may fare somewhat better than Maty (at least in the first round), by the second round this goes like the rest of Jones’ recent fights.
"Sometimes I wonder if the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on, or by imbeciles who really mean it."
-Mark Twain
"If I tell you I'm good, you would probably think I'm boasting. If I tell you I'm no good, you know I'm lying..."
-Bruce Lee
by The American Ronin on Nov 16, 2010 2:03 PM EST up reply actions
Good Article
I agree with your assessment. The layoff for Shogun gives the edge to Rashad. And as much as I don’t much care for Machida at all, I think he gets the nod over Rampage. I will be rooting for Shogun and Rampage though.
this article makes me happy
potential match up potions abound. possible match ups after the 4 big LHW matchs are all potentially huge. here’ what i think and it’s not backed up by any insight just whimsical thoughts.
Rua beats Rashad
Rampage beats Machida
Forrest beats Franklin
Jones beats Bader
which leads to …..
Rampage v Rua (for belt)
Forrest v Rashad (rematch) will sell tickets
Machida v Jones, if Jones wins he gets next title shot
Franklin v lil’ Nog, i think he’ll beat Tito
Bader v T Silva, i think he’ll beat Vera
Just havin’ a little fun….
I'm hope Rampage takes out Lyoto
But, I also kind of want to see him move up to HW. I think this is the right time for him to make that move and I would flip for a Brock v Rampage bout.
I agree
He has a better chance at remaining relevant at HW than he does at LHW imo.
"Sometimes I wonder if the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on, or by imbeciles who really mean it."
-Mark Twain
"If I tell you I'm good, you would probably think I'm boasting. If I tell you I'm no good, you know I'm lying..."
-Bruce Lee
by The American Ronin on Nov 16, 2010 7:45 PM EST up reply actions
I don’t get why forest is written off as a contender, especially with a win over Franklin. Forrest has a win over shogun (the current champ) and rampage (who is being considered for a shot with a win). His only recent losses are to rash (who rampage also lost to) and Anderson.
by Bazz1119 on Nov 16, 2010 6:23 PM EST via mobile reply actions
On paper he is a legit contender
I just don’t see him as having any real chance against the elite at LHW (Shogun, Machida, Jones).
"Sometimes I wonder if the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on, or by imbeciles who really mean it."
-Mark Twain
"If I tell you I'm good, you would probably think I'm boasting. If I tell you I'm no good, you know I'm lying..."
-Bruce Lee
by The American Ronin on Nov 16, 2010 7:46 PM EST up reply actions
Comments For This Post Are Closed
Secondary Sidebar
User Tools
Related FanPosts on Bloody Elbow
Related FanShots on Bloody Elbow
FanPosts
Community blog posts and discussion.
Recommended FanPosts
Recent FanPosts
MMA Rankings
