Josh Gross to ESPN: Dana White's Least Favorite Reporter Joins Sports Powerhouse
ESPN, the worldwide leader in sports, has significantly upgraded their MMA coverage, adding the sport's best reporter, Josh Gross, to their team. Gross has covered the sport of MMA for more than a decade, traveling all over the world to bring fans the stories no one else could, or in some cases were, willing to. First for the beloved Full Contact Fighter and later for Sherdog and Sports Illustrated, Gross fearlessly reported the news of the day, with bylines time stamped from Japan to Mississippi, all in search of MMA excellence.
Gross is one of a handful of reporters on Zuffa's enemies list. He's barred from events and any official media coverage and bringing up his name can elicit profanity from the UFC brass. That wasn't always the case. In fact, Gross was once so respected by UFC President Dana White that he was offered a job running the editorial portion of the official UFC website. How did Gross go from a job offer to a blanket ban? The answer is complicated.
Before entities like ESPN were interested in MMA, news, rumors, and information were carried to a small but loyal group of hardcore fans by independent websites like Sherdog, MMA Weekly, and publications like Full Contact Fighter. It was a true grassroots movement and UFC owner Dana White seemed to appreciate the effort of these groundbreaking reporters and fans. At the UFC 52 press conference White gave a shout out to many of the stalwart few who had followed the UFC through the good times and the bad. Mere months later, things had changed.
The media sites who had walked a long road with the UFC were out, replaced by the corporate media du jour. No one was sure exactly what happened or why. Rumors circulated that Sherdog, MMA's leading website, was banned because of a dispute with the UFC over DVD sales. Of course, that doesn't explain why other media like Weekly and Full Contact Fighter were also banned at the same time.
Others suggested that White didn't appreciate the depth of the site's coverage, considering it a betrayal when competing promotions were given the same number of column inches as the UFC. No one knows for sure and requests for comment have been met with either silence or a cryptic 'You know why they were banned."
One thing we know for sure: Gross and others weren't banned for "spoiling" the fourth season of The Ultimate Fighter. That show hadn't even been filmed when credentials from the hardcore MMA sites were pulled. The fallout from that infamous Gross podcast, however, may have permanently colored the relationship between the reporter and the UFC.
Gross's spoiler was the shot heard around the world. MMA fans and media alike debated the propriety of the move, with some suggesting that his revelation of the season four finalists was payback for White revoking his credentials. While Gross wouldn't discuss many of the issues in this story, he was willing to go on the record with an explanation for his TUF spoiler:
Some have said I did so in retaliation because we did not have access. It's easy to appear that way, but in reality I reported the finalists because season 4 wasn't a game show. It had legitimate implications for the sport, with winners being crowned No. 1 contenders in two divisions. I thought that was newsworthy while acknowledging many people may not want to know, so I included it at the end of a podcast after warning listeners to turn down their volume. It was never splashed on the front page of Sherdog.com. Never even mentioned there. But, of course, I can't do anything about controlling the dissemination of news once it's out.
It remains to be seen if Gross will be welcomed back to the UFC now that he's flying the ESPN flag. He was denied credentials repeatedly while representing Sports Illustrated, one of the most respected sports outlets in any medium. Regardless of credentials, he will continue providing a mix of fantastic features and interviews and remain steadfastedly above the politics of the industry, a nice counter to Franklin McNeil's "UFC insider" approach. While McNeil soaks in the "official" UFC, Gross will provide the view from a distance, allowing him the freedom to report on the sport generally. This is a great move for ESPN, a great move for Gross, and whether Dana White recognizes it or not, a great moment for MMA journalism. MMA is a serious sport deserving serious coverage - and today ESPN has confirmed that to the world by hiring the best.
[UPDATE 1:33 p.m. ET] Dana White responds via Twitter:
@BloodyElbow it amazes me this guy gets hired. Scary!!!
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Aaah Josh Gross
MMA’s very own Joe Morgan. Barf.
"Now you see that evil will always triumph, because good is dumb."
How is he similar to Joe Morgan at all. Morgan is a commentator who is a former player. Gross is a legitimate journalist who is not a former fighter. They’re not similar at all…
Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
MMA Editor - SBNation.com
by Brent Brookhouse on Nov 15, 2010 1:14 PM EST up reply actions
Maybe you could say he’s MMA’s Gammons and anyone who isn’t UFC is his “Boston.” But Morgan?
by Jonathan Snowden on Nov 15, 2010 1:15 PM EST up reply actions
That sits better
But Morgan was fired so it seemed more in line with my wishes.
"Now you see that evil will always triumph, because good is dumb."
by menckenstein on Nov 15, 2010 1:18 PM EST up reply actions
Holy Crap
JOSH GROSS doesn’t hype other organizations enough for you?
Luke: What was our best moment?
Nate: When I banned Subo?
Luke: That was a good one.
When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift
Contributor for WatchKalibRun.com
Still Subo at Fightlinker.com
by Derek Suboticki on Nov 15, 2010 2:58 PM EST up reply actions
That’s the second time I’ve seen an MMA personality compared to Joe Morgan this weekend (first was Goldberg). Odd.
http://www.instrength.com
You’re the Joe Morgan of blogging.
"I'm gonna go after number one, whoever it is. If it's Anderson, or I gotta go up after the guys at 205, or go on a diet and go after Jose Aldo-- it doesn't matter." -Chael Sonnen
by Charles Awad on Nov 15, 2010 2:33 PM EST via mobile up reply actions 3 recs
You’re the Joe Morgan of Joe Morgan analogies
by IRodC on Nov 15, 2010 3:39 PM EST up reply actions 3 recs
great story
nice writeup jonathan — definitely excited to see what this means for ESPN’s coverage and for ESPN’s access moving forward
was that recently? I know she did piece meal work for them but I wasnt aware that she left espn. could be.
I just her mention something on twitter about it a few weeks ago and people congratulating her. I’m not 100% for sure, I just remember it in passing. Supremacy would know more, he talks to her a lot.
http://www.instrength.com
You haven’t the slightest clue…no diss.
by Jonathan Snowden on Nov 15, 2010 1:37 PM EST up reply actions
That's correct...
from what I understand anyway
Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
MMA Editor - SBNation.com
by Brent Brookhouse on Nov 15, 2010 1:51 PM EST up reply actions
ooh
did not know that, you must hate ESPN though, right?
"whether or not you can ever become great at something, you can always become better at it. Don’t ever forget that. and don't say; ‘oh I’ll never be good’. you can become better. then one day, you'll wake up and you will find out how good you became having transcended whatever limits you might have thought you couldn't pass"
--Neil deGrasse Tyson
liar!
:p
"whether or not you can ever become great at something, you can always become better at it. Don’t ever forget that. and don't say; ‘oh I’ll never be good’. you can become better. then one day, you'll wake up and you will find out how good you became having transcended whatever limits you might have thought you couldn't pass"
--Neil deGrasse Tyson
my president elect
"whether or not you can ever become great at something, you can always become better at it. Don’t ever forget that. and don't say; ‘oh I’ll never be good’. you can become better. then one day, you'll wake up and you will find out how good you became having transcended whatever limits you might have thought you couldn't pass"
--Neil deGrasse Tyson
it's photoshop btw
the middle finger, that is :p
"whether or not you can ever become great at something, you can always become better at it. Don’t ever forget that. and don't say; ‘oh I’ll never be good’. you can become better. then one day, you'll wake up and you will find out how good you became having transcended whatever limits you might have thought you couldn't pass"
--Neil deGrasse Tyson
I didn't click for the larger photo
But for like a month I’ve thought it was late-90s Rosie O’Donnell
"Tim Sylvia’s sphincter is demonstrably weaker than Andrei Arlovski’s chin." – hlebtasic
by Anthony Pace on Nov 15, 2010 1:51 PM EST up reply actions
lmao
she’s ugly as hell, but the lady is a tough SOB and a great politician, and that’s all that matters :p
"whether or not you can ever become great at something, you can always become better at it. Don’t ever forget that. and don't say; ‘oh I’ll never be good’. you can become better. then one day, you'll wake up and you will find out how good you became having transcended whatever limits you might have thought you couldn't pass"
--Neil deGrasse Tyson
It’s amazing and ironic what that old marxist job Lula – and now hopefully Dilma – has done in moving Brazil into an economic world power.
social programs
is a necessity, and that’s the only reason we are on our way to catch up to the rest of the developed world.
"whether or not you can ever become great at something, you can always become better at it. Don’t ever forget that. and don't say; ‘oh I’ll never be good’. you can become better. then one day, you'll wake up and you will find out how good you became having transcended whatever limits you might have thought you couldn't pass"
--Neil deGrasse Tyson
Agee 100%. I think Lula has come up with the perfect path: increasing social programs and safety nets while pursuing market liberalization under the guidance of technocrats. It’s amazing that Brazil, a country outside of the arc of history, is seriously a contender for world power status.
we're still a young democracy
we’re catching up :p
"whether or not you can ever become great at something, you can always become better at it. Don’t ever forget that. and don't say; ‘oh I’ll never be good’. you can become better. then one day, you'll wake up and you will find out how good you became having transcended whatever limits you might have thought you couldn't pass"
--Neil deGrasse Tyson
Lula did a hell of a job.
He did a really good job continuing Cardoso’s liberalization programs, and managed to be in the right with virtually all of his political instincts. Here’s to hoping Rousseff keeps up the trend of effective, long-sighted political leadership. Lord knows we could use some of it here in the States!
From what I've read
The US could take a lot from Brazil’s efforts in the energy sector
"Tim Sylvia’s sphincter is demonstrably weaker than Andrei Arlovski’s chin." – hlebtasic
by Anthony Pace on Nov 15, 2010 2:09 PM EST up reply actions
I don’t think there is much for us to take from their sugar ethanol production. I’ll have to look into their other policies before forming an opinion.
It was an offhand general comment
But Brazil seems to have had a bit of trouble integrating new ethanol energy into its economy, what with state regulations being a major point of contention at the moment.
It’s heavy dependance on hydroelctricity and biomass are quite interesting, though.
"Tim Sylvia’s sphincter is demonstrably weaker than Andrei Arlovski’s chin." – hlebtasic
by Anthony Pace on Nov 15, 2010 2:51 PM EST up reply actions
she went through a few plastic surgeries after undergoing chemo, that’s why she looks a bit different today too.
"whether or not you can ever become great at something, you can always become better at it. Don’t ever forget that. and don't say; ‘oh I’ll never be good’. you can become better. then one day, you'll wake up and you will find out how good you became having transcended whatever limits you might have thought you couldn't pass"
--Neil deGrasse Tyson
still to come:
UFC to pull ESPN’s media credentials… indefinitely…
"whether or not you can ever become great at something, you can always become better at it. Don’t ever forget that. and don't say; ‘oh I’ll never be good’. you can become better. then one day, you'll wake up and you will find out how good you became having transcended whatever limits you might have thought you couldn't pass"
--Neil deGrasse Tyson
I was being sarcastic
just goes to show DW is a bully and will back down when dealing with an organization as big as ESPN, he might only twitt about it :p
"whether or not you can ever become great at something, you can always become better at it. Don’t ever forget that. and don't say; ‘oh I’ll never be good’. you can become better. then one day, you'll wake up and you will find out how good you became having transcended whatever limits you might have thought you couldn't pass"
--Neil deGrasse Tyson
you are 100% correct.
If MMA is going to be the big sport that Dana wants it to be then he has to play ball with the big boys like ESPN. And with that, the UFC has to be ready for people reporting the news, not just rejurgitating (spelling) a lot of the BS that gets put out by DW and the UFC brass.
What i wonder is will ESPN report on other ORGs like they will do with the UFC
Sheeeeeeeee-it
I think so
MMA Live talks about SF and Dream, etc, and that’s ESPN
"whether or not you can ever become great at something, you can always become better at it. Don’t ever forget that. and don't say; ‘oh I’ll never be good’. you can become better. then one day, you'll wake up and you will find out how good you became having transcended whatever limits you might have thought you couldn't pass"
--Neil deGrasse Tyson
what has shown him backing down?
No one has said Gross is getting credentialed. Gross being at SI didn’t stop others at SI or MMA fighting from getting credentialed.
I was talking about ESPN
not Gross in particular
"whether or not you can ever become great at something, you can always become better at it. Don’t ever forget that. and don't say; ‘oh I’ll never be good’. you can become better. then one day, you'll wake up and you will find out how good you became having transcended whatever limits you might have thought you couldn't pass"
--Neil deGrasse Tyson
They can’t ESPN is a UFC media partner
by MattParker117 on Nov 15, 2010 3:19 PM EST up reply actions
I love outdated terminology.
“Column inches.” That’s cute. STOP THE PRESSES!
by Autotuned Genki Sudo on Nov 15, 2010 1:15 PM EST reply actions
I feel like Snowden stole your girlfriend or something
"Don’t quote old fucks to me" – Brent Brookhouse
by Chris Barton on Nov 15, 2010 1:16 PM EST up reply actions
Nah...
… just borrowed some of my favorite records on wax cylinder and didn’t return them. My phonograph is useless without them!
by Autotuned Genki Sudo on Nov 15, 2010 1:37 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Outdated?
This is a term still widely used at newsdesks around the country
"Tim Sylvia’s sphincter is demonstrably weaker than Andrei Arlovski’s chin." – hlebtasic
by Anthony Pace on Nov 15, 2010 1:53 PM EST up reply actions
this is great. I love how gross finally has a bigger stage and can't be ignored by the zuffa brass.
The guy tells it like it is.
I'm pretty sure
they’ll still ignore him.
"Don’t quote old fucks to me" – Brent Brookhouse
by Chris Barton on Nov 15, 2010 1:20 PM EST up reply actions
right, i used the wrong expression there. i meant to say he'll be harder to ignore.
and having him now on ESPN must make them squirm.
by destructivist on Nov 15, 2010 1:31 PM EST up reply actions
I don't like Gross
I never have. I doubt him going to ESPN will change whatever it is about him and his journalism that I don’t like. I find him distasteful and nonsensically combative.
And we all know, including Gross, he shouldn’t have given out this spoilers.
"Don’t quote old fucks to me" – Brent Brookhouse
by Chris Barton on Nov 15, 2010 1:18 PM EST reply actions 6 recs
His explanation made perfect sense to me.
by Jonathan Snowden on Nov 15, 2010 1:22 PM EST up reply actions
Making sense
didn’t make it right.
"Don’t quote old fucks to me" – Brent Brookhouse
by Chris Barton on Nov 15, 2010 1:24 PM EST up reply actions
Because it ruins the concept of the show. Because it actually hurts the sport to report spoilers in a show that needs ratings driven by people not knowing who won. There is never an acceptable reason to do anything to hurt the sport or the promotion of the sport, barring some sort of report where fighters are being unjustly treated or some such.
"Don’t quote old fucks to me" – Brent Brookhouse
by Chris Barton on Nov 15, 2010 1:23 PM EST up reply actions
Go ahead
and add “when fighters do bad shit” to my last sentence. I assumed it wouldn’t need that level of clarification. Regardless, it’s not at all similar to what we’re talking about.
"Don’t quote old fucks to me" – Brent Brookhouse
by Chris Barton on Nov 15, 2010 1:28 PM EST up reply actions
Your last sentence is contradictory and ambiguous. It’s not surprising that people aren’t clear on what you mean.
Twitter: @Mike_Fagan_13
I thought it was pretty clear
Short of reporting something that is actually hurting the sport in some way, you shouldn’t report things in such a way that you would do harm to the sport.
"Don’t quote old fucks to me" – Brent Brookhouse
by Chris Barton on Nov 15, 2010 1:32 PM EST up reply actions
There is an argument to be made that having fights relevant to the overall title picture in two weight classes with results hidden for months hurts the sport to a degree in the legitimacy department.
Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
MMA Editor - SBNation.com
by Brent Brookhouse on Nov 15, 2010 1:38 PM EST up reply actions
What argument?
I honestly can’t see how that would hurt legitimacy. I’m willing to do a 180 on this if you’re right.
"Don’t quote old fucks to me" – Brent Brookhouse
by Chris Barton on Nov 15, 2010 1:41 PM EST up reply actions
To casual fans (the ones you’re arguing TUF exists to attract) sports work in a certain way. They don’t work where everything happened months ago but you have to wait until now to know what happened and now you get one week to take in the storyline of the big event.
If say…the NFL decided to run the AFC championships as a “reality show” and held the games in a closed stadium with contracts not to give results to friends, family and media and you found out one week in advance (after a month long break after the last game) who will be playing in the AFC championship game (with the winner playing for the NFL championship in the Super Bowl). Fans of all sports would consider that an absurd notion and would (rightfully) expect that they knew what was happening as it happened not down the road.
It just doesn’t work with the concept of how sports should run at the championship level. At the “new contender trying to earn his shot” level…sure. But not at the championship level.
Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
MMA Editor - SBNation.com
by Brent Brookhouse on Nov 15, 2010 1:48 PM EST up reply actions
Hmmm
Maybe I am missing the point here, but I think the only reason your NFL example wouldn’t work is because fans are simply accustomed to the playoffs working a certain way.
To be fair, I think I would dig the suspense your scenario would generate. Not that the NFL needs more suspense.
"Don’t quote old fucks to me" – Brent Brookhouse
by Chris Barton on Nov 15, 2010 1:51 PM EST up reply actions
I think a better example would be changing the NFL Draft into a reality show.
Twitter: @Mike_Fagan_13
I considered that at first...
but what changed TUF 4 into a “spoilerable” event for me was that it had ramifications on the championship picture, not just a “new guy coming in”
Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
MMA Editor - SBNation.com
by Brent Brookhouse on Nov 15, 2010 1:54 PM EST up reply actions
Right
and I get that what made it “spoilerable” for Gross too, if he is to be believed. So far, I just disagree that the title gives it some sort of special dispensation to be spoiled.
"Don’t quote old fucks to me" – Brent Brookhouse
by Chris Barton on Nov 15, 2010 1:55 PM EST up reply actions
Which might get more viewers :p
I could see why fans would be pissed off. But would it hurt the legitimacy of the draft?
"Don’t quote old fucks to me" – Brent Brookhouse
by Chris Barton on Nov 15, 2010 1:54 PM EST up reply actions
In my eyes, it would hurt the credibility of the NFL. And those draft results would be spoiled the second a reporter got his or her hands on them.
Twitter: @Mike_Fagan_13
Hell yes they would be
and the NFL would be furious. I’m not following how it’s hurts the NFLs credibility, though.
I’m also thinking we’d have to assume some built in promotional gain the players would receive from the “Reality Show Draft”.
"Don’t quote old fucks to me" – Brent Brookhouse
by Chris Barton on Nov 15, 2010 1:57 PM EST up reply actions
But would it hurt the legitimacy of the draft?
Really?
Treating the draft like an episode of Monday Night Raw = NFL getting absolutely hammered everywhere in the media.
If Derek Jeter clubbed a baby seal on earth day while wearing a mink coat and crocodile skin boots while burning tires on an iceberg, the reaction would be "Its OK Derek, you’re a Yankee." -First mammal to wear pants
Wait
How would it be turning into Monday Night Raw. Nobody is claiming the results would be “fixed”.
"Don’t quote old fucks to me" – Brent Brookhouse
by Chris Barton on Nov 15, 2010 1:59 PM EST up reply actions
It's not the results
It’s the treatment of the event.
The draft is something that effects every single team in the league. From the players to the executives to the fans.
Hiding the results of that like it’s a pre-taped pro wrestling event (or like TUF) would kill a lot of the credibility of it.
If Derek Jeter clubbed a baby seal on earth day while wearing a mink coat and crocodile skin boots while burning tires on an iceberg, the reaction would be "Its OK Derek, you’re a Yankee." -First mammal to wear pants
Absolutely they shouldn't.
Independent media have an implicit obligation to protect those they cover — isn’t this obvious? It’s stenography, er, journalism 101.
Give me a fucking break.
by StephenDedalus on Nov 15, 2010 2:14 PM EST up reply actions
I disagree completely with that. The media shouldn’t pussyfoot around the concepts a company has designed to further itself within the sport. The media reports facts. Those were facts. I’d be more interested to know how he found out than anything, because everyone associated with the show signs SILENCE PAPERS, do they not?
http://www.instrength.com
agreed
it’s more the UFC’s/Spike’s fault for leaking the info, reporters shouldn’t get blamed for doing their jobs.
"whether or not you can ever become great at something, you can always become better at it. Don’t ever forget that. and don't say; ‘oh I’ll never be good’. you can become better. then one day, you'll wake up and you will find out how good you became having transcended whatever limits you might have thought you couldn't pass"
--Neil deGrasse Tyson
It's easy to hide behind this "noble" concept
that the “media reports facts” so anything they report should be okay. That’s simply not true, though. The media has a responsibility not ONLY to their readership, but to the sport/topic/etc. that they report on as well.
There is no way to justify reporting something that has no usefulness other than hurting the sport. It didn’t help a fighter. It didn’t reveal some misdeed. It was reporting a spoiler, which anyone should know isn’t acceptable.
"Don’t quote old fucks to me" – Brent Brookhouse
by Chris Barton on Nov 15, 2010 1:31 PM EST up reply actions
If anything, the idea that the media should protect a company that promotes a sport would be noble. However, it goes completely against the entire idea of reporting in general. Your definition of justification baffles me. Reporting spoilers is COMPLETELY acceptable. I have no idea how you can argue against that.
No offense, I know you and generally agree with you, but I hope you never become a reporter. I would never know if what I’m reading is the truth or a company’s narrative.
http://www.instrength.com
Again
I’m not suggesting they should protect a company. This is protecting the sport and the fighters being promoted in this format. I could give a shit if it was ZUFFA or not.
I don’t know what kind of reporter I’d be. I certainly wouldn’t just give you a company line, which I think is consistent with my post history here. I wouldn’t “report” things that had no journalistic gain than page hits at the expense of fighters, though.
"Don’t quote old fucks to me" – Brent Brookhouse
by Chris Barton on Nov 15, 2010 1:40 PM EST up reply actions
There’s no such thing as “protecting a sport” in this regard. That’s not how it works, that’s not how it should work, and I hope it never comes into practice on a large scale. I don’t care if it’s Zuffa either, the point stands either way.
Gross thought the information was relevant to the sport. You keep saying it wasn’t relevant. He thought it was, as Brent pointed out above. I agree with Gross on this point. It wasn’t throwaway info. Even if it was, that doesn’t mean he should sit on it.
http://www.instrength.com
It was relevant to the sport, sure. Reporting it did more to hurt it than help it, which is my issue. I think his motive was clear as day, screw the fighters being promoted, he wanted his shot as poking the bear.
I disagree on “protecting the sport”. I think everything reported should be weighed on the damage your report will do and if the pros outweigh the cons.
"Don’t quote old fucks to me" – Brent Brookhouse
by Chris Barton on Nov 15, 2010 1:46 PM EST up reply actions
"Reporting it did more to hurt it than help it, which is my issue."
With the exception of issues related to national security or the lives of various actors, “protecting” something is not the job of any reporter. Is it news? Then report it. It’s not Gross’ job to protect the sport. It’s not mine either.
Follow me on Twitter: @MMANation.
by Luke Thomas on Nov 15, 2010 1:49 PM EST up reply actions 6 recs
I don't like that attitude
I guess that’s where the divide lies with me and you guys. I think the “Is it news? Report it and who cares about the repercussions” It’s lazy and intellectually dishonest.
I’m willing to bet it has more to do with my philosophy than reality. But it is what it is to me.
"Don’t quote old fucks to me" – Brent Brookhouse
by Chris Barton on Nov 15, 2010 1:53 PM EST up reply actions
It’s easy in a sport that we’ve all had to “protect” to some degree from all kinds of crap (from claims that it was simply barbarism to claims of it being unsafe…etc) to feel that we should all always look out for the “best end result” for the sport. But once you get to the point where you’re a part of the media the game changes.
We’re no longer a part of the fanbase. We’re an instrument to report on truths (when wearing the journalist hat) or to provide somewhat educated opinion (when wearing the editorial hat).
To know something is fact and not report it because you think that it may make some people feel “spoiled” is more dishonest to me in my job than not reporting it to “protect” the sport.
And this is coming from the guy on staff who fought the hardest to ensure tape delayed results didn’t get frontpaged here.
Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
MMA Editor - SBNation.com
by Brent Brookhouse on Nov 15, 2010 1:58 PM EST up reply actions 7 recs
I didn’t fight hard, but I was probably the most solidly in the camp of “Fuck ’em, results on the front page or die” camp.
Twitter: @Mike_Fagan_13
by Mike Fagan on Nov 15, 2010 2:00 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
You know
Maybe you hit the nail on the head. Since I’m not media I get to still fight the “good of the sport” side in the argument.
I can see why that would feel dishonest. I’d have a hard time with it, myself.
"Don’t quote old fucks to me" – Brent Brookhouse
by Chris Barton on Nov 15, 2010 2:01 PM EST up reply actions
LOL
Maybe that’s it.
"Don’t quote old fucks to me" – Brent Brookhouse
by Chris Barton on Nov 15, 2010 2:01 PM EST up reply actions
"Report it and who cares about the repercussions" It’s lazy and intellectually dishonest."
No, it’s our job. We’d be dishonest doing anything else.
Follow me on Twitter: @MMANation.
Like I just told Brent, I can empathize with that feeling. Where you know something and hiding it would feel more dishonest.
"Don’t quote old fucks to me" – Brent Brookhouse
by Chris Barton on Nov 15, 2010 2:03 PM EST up reply actions
If I got a story that all UFC champions were juicing
And i knew it to be 100% true. Had indisputable truth. No way it was wrong. Would I run it?
In a heartbeat.
Follow me on Twitter: @MMANation.
You may have missed this, but I had mentioned earlier that there were some grayer areas. In that example, for instance, the fighters are doing far more harm to the sport by taking PEDs than reporting would do. Reporting it would be one of the only ways to help the sport get rid of that problem.
"Don’t quote old fucks to me" – Brent Brookhouse
by Chris Barton on Nov 15, 2010 2:09 PM EST up reply actions
Now we have the OTHER end of the spectrum with MMA writers
being overly protective.
Reppin' the NYMMAI.
Black Lesnar aka Slap ya Favorite MMA Writer
Follow me on Twitter
Read me at WatchKalibRun . Imma write til the wheels fall off.
by S.C. Michaelson on Nov 15, 2010 5:31 PM EST up reply actions
We’ll have to disagree then. Because a reporter, while probably being a fan of the sport they’re reporting on, still have to remain impartial. Reporting is their job, not furthering the sport.
http://www.instrength.com
For the life of me
Reporting is their job, not furthering the sport.
I don’t see why it shouldn’t be both.
"Don’t quote old fucks to me" – Brent Brookhouse
by Chris Barton on Nov 15, 2010 1:58 PM EST up reply actions
That's kind of how I roll
I feel like I am coming off as some holier than though, douchebag. I hope that’s not the case.
"Don’t quote old fucks to me" – Brent Brookhouse
by Chris Barton on Nov 15, 2010 2:02 PM EST up reply actions
Well, it’s not naivete in the sense that I realize that’s not how it works in reality. It is how I think it should.
"Don’t quote old fucks to me" – Brent Brookhouse
by Chris Barton on Nov 15, 2010 2:04 PM EST up reply actions
I wouldn't ask you to be
I just think there is integrity to be found in protecting the topic you report on as well as reporting the truth/facts. I think those things can co-exist.
"Don’t quote old fucks to me" – Brent Brookhouse
by Chris Barton on Nov 15, 2010 2:05 PM EST up reply actions
It's a fairly honorable calling, however
"Tim Sylvia’s sphincter is demonstrably weaker than Andrei Arlovski’s chin." – hlebtasic
by Anthony Pace on Nov 15, 2010 2:06 PM EST up reply actions
Let’s create a fictional world. It’s 1972 and the Watergate burglars have just been arrested. Bob Woodward is put on the beat. A omniscient being approaches Woodward and says, “Bob, you have a big case here. This will be one of the biggest news stories of the 1970s, if not the entire 20th century. But, Bob, I am here to tell you that if you bury this story, allow Nixon to complete his second term of office, the United States will achieve the greatest 10-year span of prosperity ever seen on Planet Earth. Report the story and he gets impeached, Ford becomes President, Carter wins in ’76, energy crisis, etc. etc.”
By your logic, Woodward should turn the other way, yes? And the state of our nation (and the world) is much more important than a fight promotion, yes?
Twitter: @Mike_Fagan_13
by Mike Fagan on Nov 15, 2010 1:43 PM EST up reply actions 5 recs
… an imaginary omniscient soothsayer and “logic” don’t belong in the same discourse.
by Autotuned Genki Sudo on Nov 15, 2010 1:46 PM EST up reply actions
Woah
I’m not going to pretend that reporting a crime is somehow equivalent to reporting a title contender. It’s just not close enough to “apples to apples”.
That said, I totally do think that would be a fun discussion to have.
"Don’t quote old fucks to me" – Brent Brookhouse
by Chris Barton on Nov 15, 2010 1:48 PM EST up reply actions
The incomparable gravity of the two situations aside
rec’d
"Tim Sylvia’s sphincter is demonstrably weaker than Andrei Arlovski’s chin." – hlebtasic
by Anthony Pace on Nov 15, 2010 1:58 PM EST up reply actions
sounds like the plot of the Watchmen
in my fictional world, Gross is the Rorschack of the MMA world!
Who's the only one here who knows illegal ninja moves from the government?
Chris Barton and Glenn Beck
“There is no way to justify reporting something that has no usefulness other than hurting the sport.”
Now lets just change the word, ‘sport’… to ‘Republican candidate’…. and I think we just found a new term for Chris Barton’s point: “The Rush Limbaugh / Fox News School of Journalism”
That is what you are advocating dude. That MMA reporters should be partisan hacks who "fight’ for their side… in this case the side of ‘the sport’
Reporters are not parrots man. They do not exist to do Dana’s bidding.
I bet you probably think that the ‘Liberal Media’ should stop reporting when soldiers die lest they dampen enthusiasm for the war…. OR when a Vice- Presidential candidate sits down for an interview… we shouldn’t ask her to name the magazines and books she reads?
These comments read like Barton vs the World. Am I the only one banging my head against the screen trying to figure out what the point here is? But then again, have you ever seen the comments section of any article linked by Matt Drudge….. Its an endless stream of Tea Parties who just won’t give up on their narrative. Yes we know.. Obama is a Muslim! Kinda reminds me of whats going on here.
It’s fuckin journalism. They aren’t responsible for the bare truths of the sport and the effects they have. Their job is to uncover facts and report on them. That’s it. This idea you have of journalism and the need to censor for the good of the whole… it just smacks of fascism.
by judonerd on Nov 15, 2010 1:29 PM EST up reply actions 6 recs
Wow
Reporting spoilers isn’t exactly “journalism” at it’s finest. There was no reason to report spoilers for the show other than to poke the bear.
"Don’t quote old fucks to me" – Brent Brookhouse
by Chris Barton on Nov 15, 2010 1:34 PM EST up reply actions
Gross could report anything he wants but he shouldn’t complain when he gets banned. People shouldn’t hold that against the UFC either.
Well
That’s sort of outside of what I am arguing. I don’t think anyone actually thinks Gross shouldn’t pay his penance.
"Don’t quote old fucks to me" – Brent Brookhouse
by Chris Barton on Nov 15, 2010 2:10 PM EST up reply actions
Holding arguably the best reporter in the sport out of credentials even when he writes for one of the most influential publications in the history of sports journalism for revealing results with major implications at the championship is absolutely something I think is wrong.
Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
MMA Editor - SBNation.com
by Brent Brookhouse on Nov 15, 2010 2:13 PM EST up reply actions 6 recs
Well when you say it like that
On the other hand, holding out a reporter who has a history of being combative with my company seems pretty reasonable.
"Don’t quote old fucks to me" – Brent Brookhouse
by Chris Barton on Nov 15, 2010 2:15 PM EST up reply actions
Of course people believe Gross should have access to the events. Almost everyone I know thinks he belongs cageside at the UFC. Besides, as the article makes very clear, he didn’t lose credentials because of TUF IV.
by Jonathan Snowden on Nov 15, 2010 2:14 PM EST up reply actions
he article makes very clear, he didn’t lose credentials because of TUF IV.
Yea, but it’s not at all clear why he lost them in the first place. Reporting that isn’t helping him get his credentials back anytime soon. Which he had to have known.
"Don’t quote old fucks to me" – Brent Brookhouse
by Chris Barton on Nov 15, 2010 2:16 PM EST up reply actions
Maybe he views credentials as the means instead of the end.
by StephenDedalus on Nov 15, 2010 2:17 PM EST up reply actions
Gross is the best journalist covering MMA right now. Dana White doesn’t have to acknowledge that, but maybe — hopefully — some day he’ll lighten up. But I doubt it. That Gross remains without credentials to UFC events says all that needs to be said about the attitude at Zuffa.
by StephenDedalus on Nov 15, 2010 2:16 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Poke the Bear?
Journalists often deliver spoilers. The good ones will say “Spoiler Alert” and give you a chance to click elsewhere or turn off the TV.
i would agree with that in almost any other situation.
But this one is a gray area.
"Even Hulkamania wouldn't get you out of this hold"
"True strength is not always shown through victory. Stand up, try again and display strength of heart."
by the-gentle-way on Nov 15, 2010 1:41 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
This isn't actually true
There is a big part of Journalistic Ethics that is Minimize Harm. No journalistic body actually think it’s okay to simply report news regardless of it’s impact.
"Don’t quote old fucks to me" – Brent Brookhouse
by Chris Barton on Nov 15, 2010 3:54 PM EST up reply actions
Journalistic Ethics
That sounds like an oxymoron. Like jumbo shrimp, or exciting Fitch.
http://www.instrength.com
I agree
and I think that’s really sad. There IS such a thing. I don’t know why it seems to be slipping away from us under the guide of “Hey it’s the truth, I report it”, but that’s not the way it’s supposed to be.
Granted, it’s blurrier in a lot of ways in sports journalism because often times there is much less at stake. I was reading up on the ethics of reporting A-Rods extra-marital affairs. There used to be an unwritten rule in Sports Journalism that you didn’t report things like that, it was unethical. Then one day the poles shifted. I guess I just don’t approve of how they are shifting.
"Don’t quote old fucks to me" – Brent Brookhouse
by Chris Barton on Nov 15, 2010 4:06 PM EST up reply actions
I disagree. gross reported who the next contenders were @ 185 and 170, which is entirely outside the context of the show.
by destructivist on Nov 15, 2010 1:33 PM EST up reply actions
No it wasn't.
"Don’t quote old fucks to me" – Brent Brookhouse
by Chris Barton on Nov 15, 2010 1:34 PM EST up reply actions
Sure was..
Able to get my UFC fix and my boxing fix all in one day, without having to choose. Granted i also choose MMA but sat worked out perfect.
I’m glad Sportsnet has the rights to air this. This is a Sport, it should be on sport channels, not on some crappy cable channel that panders to the sub 70 iqs out there.
Sheeeeeeeee-it
its the equivalent of publishing the end of a bad movie in a review.
I usually have an inside scoop on somethings with tuf due to fighters being from my camp or a friends, but its silly to wreck it for others. Its kinda a dick move.
"Even Hulkamania wouldn't get you out of this hold"
"True strength is not always shown through victory. Stand up, try again and display strength of heart."
by the-gentle-way on Nov 15, 2010 1:39 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Movies are fiction. This is a reporter for a sport reporting on the men who will fight to determine a title challenger.
It’s not THAT different than the fact that fighters and camps leak about every fight that is being made months before the UFC officially announce it and it gets reported on every site on the Internet…except that there was a silly reality show concept behind it.
Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
MMA Editor - SBNation.com
by Brent Brookhouse on Nov 15, 2010 1:40 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
i see your point.
But do you see mine? I just think this was a very “gray” area type thing. Not so much for the ufc ,but the fans. Sucks to know the ending before you see it. I would rather be suprised.
"Even Hulkamania wouldn't get you out of this hold"
"True strength is not always shown through victory. Stand up, try again and display strength of heart."
by the-gentle-way on Nov 15, 2010 1:47 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
I did not know the result of TUF 4 until the last episode aired. I had zero problems avoiding spoilers.
Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
MMA Editor - SBNation.com
by Brent Brookhouse on Nov 15, 2010 1:50 PM EST up reply actions
fair enough.
So you like to be suprised. Noted.
"Even Hulkamania wouldn't get you out of this hold"
"True strength is not always shown through victory. Stand up, try again and display strength of heart."
by the-gentle-way on Nov 15, 2010 1:54 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
haha...
yeah. i’m quite “anti-spoiler”
Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
MMA Editor - SBNation.com
by Brent Brookhouse on Nov 15, 2010 1:59 PM EST up reply actions
So you like to be suprised. Noted.
Why do images of black ski masks and duct tape come to mind? Very ominous statement there, especially with a name like “the-gentle-way”
"Tim Sylvia’s sphincter is demonstrably weaker than Andrei Arlovski’s chin." – hlebtasic
by Anthony Pace on Nov 15, 2010 2:00 PM EST up reply actions
lmao
I spit my drink out reading that. A true lol!
"Even Hulkamania wouldn't get you out of this hold"
"True strength is not always shown through victory. Stand up, try again and display strength of heart."
by the-gentle-way on Nov 15, 2010 2:22 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
btw its the English translation for Judo.
"Even Hulkamania wouldn't get you out of this hold"
"True strength is not always shown through victory. Stand up, try again and display strength of heart."
by the-gentle-way on Nov 15, 2010 2:23 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Is it really?
That’s interesting, thanks for keying me in
"Tim Sylvia’s sphincter is demonstrably weaker than Andrei Arlovski’s chin." – hlebtasic
by Anthony Pace on Nov 15, 2010 2:25 PM EST up reply actions
i thought it was 'the way of flexibility'?
'if you don't have humility as a fighter, fighting will bring humility to you...'
yup… He had every right to report it… and zuffa had every right to blacklist him. There’s really no argument.
Anyone who argues Gross had a right to report it then they should have no problem with understanding Zuffa’s right to kick his ass out.
Zuffa has the “right” to withhold credentials from anyone they want for any (or absolutely no) reason whatsoever. I don’t think that’s the argument.
Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
MMA Editor - SBNation.com
by Brent Brookhouse on Nov 15, 2010 2:17 PM EST up reply actions
And it’s obscuring the point that he was kicked out for other reasons entirely.
by Jonathan Snowden on Nov 15, 2010 2:18 PM EST up reply actions
Right...
those “you know why” reasons…
Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
MMA Editor - SBNation.com
by Brent Brookhouse on Nov 15, 2010 2:21 PM EST up reply actions
yeah, because Gross was solely responsible for spoiling the non-live europe cards. How bout every sports news outlet that put it on their crawl or update list?
a life: it's the shit that happens while you're waiting for moments that never come -Lester Freamon
by eastcoastatlas on Nov 15, 2010 2:40 PM EST up reply actions
Why shouldn’t he?
Every TUF season should be spoiled imo, just like every tape delayed MMA card.
It’s a f’n reality show.
Really?
It’s nothing like a tape delayed card. The shows primary goal is to get more casual eyes watching MMA and to build new stars. If you already know all the winners, why watch? It absurdly hurts the building of new stars and the promotion of the sport.
"Don’t quote old fucks to me" – Brent Brookhouse
by Chris Barton on Nov 15, 2010 1:25 PM EST up reply actions
Again, that’s a narrative created by the UFC, within the bounds of a sport. While I see your point in regards to furthering the sport, that’s not what the media does. Dana would LOVE IT if the media would stick to doing that, but that’s really the basis of a lot of points here – anyone who goes against Zuffa gets the boot. The media doesn’t have to play along with a company. It ruins their own credibility.
http://www.instrength.com
I disagree
Granted it IS the UFCs show, but it’s not because it’s a UFC product that I have the problem. It’s a vehicle to promote new coming guys and get eyeballs on the sport, something we should all want. Reporting spoilers for it goes against all of those things.
There should be some sort of journalistic responsibility short of “we can say what we want because we have to tell the truth!”. That’s nonsense.
"Don’t quote old fucks to me" – Brent Brookhouse
by Chris Barton on Nov 15, 2010 1:37 PM EST up reply actions
That’s the UFC’s problem.
MMA media is supposed to provide coverage of what happens, not to promote it or follow along
Yeah but Gross shouldn't have been surprised by the UFC's reaction either.
Giving away results affects ratings which affects ad revenue.
how do you know he was surprised?
'if you don't have humility as a fighter, fighting will bring humility to you...'
again, I dont understand why you are wetting your diaper over TUF being "hurt".
Every other reality show on global airwaves has spoiler sites and they are bigger and more of them.
by destructivist on Nov 15, 2010 1:34 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
Because
TUF is the reason the sport is where it is today.
"Don’t quote old fucks to me" – Brent Brookhouse
by Chris Barton on Nov 15, 2010 1:35 PM EST up reply actions
debatable but you are entitled to your opinion.
But keep in mind, your argument is starting to fall apart
by destructivist on Nov 15, 2010 1:37 PM EST up reply actions
The Ultimate Fighter reality show is the single reason where the sport is where it’s at today?
Twitter: @Mike_Fagan_13
Single?
No. Fuck… maybe.
"Don’t quote old fucks to me" – Brent Brookhouse
by Chris Barton on Nov 15, 2010 2:06 PM EST up reply actions
Casual eyes aren’t listening to Josh Gross’ podcast.
Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
MMA Editor - SBNation.com
by Brent Brookhouse on Nov 15, 2010 1:41 PM EST up reply actions
..er...casual ears
Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
MMA Editor - SBNation.com
by Brent Brookhouse on Nov 15, 2010 1:41 PM EST up reply actions
True
but those hardcore ears went on and told everyone they could. Which, while not technically isn’t on Gross, he had to know that.
"Don’t quote old fucks to me" – Brent Brookhouse
by Chris Barton on Nov 15, 2010 1:43 PM EST up reply actions
The biggest problem with this arguement is that ‘hardcores’ who listened a 2.5 hr Josh Gross podcast are already fans of the sport. Anyone who would be flipping channels and land on TuF and be intrigued by MMA would not also be the same person who was reading BE daily and listening to MMA related podcasts. Knowing that Matt Serra won the show would exist in a seperate reality from those people.
Second, does knowing the winner really ruin your enjoyment of a show? This isn’t the latest Harry Potter movie or something, where knowing a big twist can suck the life out of a movie. This is fighting. The other night I watched a 3 hr MFC card, even though I knew all the winners. Why? Because I wanted to see HOW they won. Knowing who wins is a small part of the overall MMA realm, something that I think you’re ignoring.
Third, TUF4 was in no way about building new stars. They were a bunch of washouts who failed in the UFC once, and largely have failed in the UFC again. I mean, the fucking show winner couldn’t even make weight to have his title fight. Even for this latest season, if I knew that Bruce Leroy won the show, that would have no bearing on how interested I was in seeing how he fought his way to the finale.
by indy31 on Nov 15, 2010 1:49 PM EST up reply actions 4 recs
While at it.... just make the entire TUF tournament a one hour highlight show.
Why even bother trying to let the fans get to know the fighters.
THIS
I was spoiled for TUF 2 and I remember (even though I loved Rashad) being SHOCKED that he beat everyone and made it to the finals. I remember the spoilers said he beat Whitehead (who was a “legit” Hughes prospect) and Jardine (who was just a badass looking dude). I remember thinking “No way can my boy Rashad beat all these dudes”, but he did. It enhanced the show.
Reppin' the NYMMAI.
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by S.C. Michaelson on Nov 15, 2010 5:35 PM EST up reply actions
Why do you think it should be understood that journalists covering the sport should be complicit in keeping secret the results of a reality television show? Because in your mind the show has noble ends?
by StephenDedalus on Nov 15, 2010 2:23 PM EST up reply actions
in fact
many critics gives out spoilers to movies… just saying…
"whether or not you can ever become great at something, you can always become better at it. Don’t ever forget that. and don't say; ‘oh I’ll never be good’. you can become better. then one day, you'll wake up and you will find out how good you became having transcended whatever limits you might have thought you couldn't pass"
--Neil deGrasse Tyson
sure
but it’s not something uncommon or unethical as many are trying to say here.
"whether or not you can ever become great at something, you can always become better at it. Don’t ever forget that. and don't say; ‘oh I’ll never be good’. you can become better. then one day, you'll wake up and you will find out how good you became having transcended whatever limits you might have thought you couldn't pass"
--Neil deGrasse Tyson
you're presuming
that you can’t report something if you get information for it because the big gorilla might not like it. that’s not how things should work.
"whether or not you can ever become great at something, you can always become better at it. Don’t ever forget that. and don't say; ‘oh I’ll never be good’. you can become better. then one day, you'll wake up and you will find out how good you became having transcended whatever limits you might have thought you couldn't pass"
--Neil deGrasse Tyson
TUF "tv show" is different than a normal event.
It’s half tv show and half tournament.
but it is a tv show
:p
"whether or not you can ever become great at something, you can always become better at it. Don’t ever forget that. and don't say; ‘oh I’ll never be good’. you can become better. then one day, you'll wake up and you will find out how good you became having transcended whatever limits you might have thought you couldn't pass"
--Neil deGrasse Tyson
this is true Orcus
Its also true 800lb gorillas sit where ever the fuck they want. Its one of life’s ironys.
"Even Hulkamania wouldn't get you out of this hold"
"True strength is not always shown through victory. Stand up, try again and display strength of heart."
by the-gentle-way on Nov 15, 2010 2:04 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
that's not true!
we make them stay inside a zoo if we want them to!
"whether or not you can ever become great at something, you can always become better at it. Don’t ever forget that. and don't say; ‘oh I’ll never be good’. you can become better. then one day, you'll wake up and you will find out how good you became having transcended whatever limits you might have thought you couldn't pass"
--Neil deGrasse Tyson
it is how things work.
If you are a tv reporter and you give out too much information in the screeners you get sent early, you stop getting screeners.
Again...
fiction versus legitimate real sports coverage. they’re not the same thing.
Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
MMA Editor - SBNation.com
by Brent Brookhouse on Nov 15, 2010 2:14 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
After the end of the NBA season there is a time period where teams are not allowed to talk to free agents form other teams.
If a team broke that rule and worked out a deal before the deadline, and it got out, the team would definitely stop talking to the reporter involved.
It’s not a coincidence that every other thing that happens in the sports world except the people that manage to sign long, complicated contracts in the minutes after teams are allowed to start talking to players gets reported in the media before teams announce things.
Rec'd
the ufc wants it all ways, it wants the week in week out retention (audience) and tension of a ‘soap opera’ (hence the house, the ‘hi jinx’ the japes etc) while also building marketable assets for the future within the context of the sport. It needs to be cognisant of the fact that where they bring the format into direct alignment with the championship level competition – the wild and uncontrollable elements of media who actually care about these things may well disrespect their wishes. To me this just smacks of there being people who wont be bullied by the corporation and good for them.
Gross publicised his spoilers so that they could be avoided, if they were then repeated by websites and individuals who weren’t responsible / scrupulous enough to repeat spoiler warnings then that speaks volumes about them. Under those particular circumstances, people have the opportunity to select media that will publicise that they will issue spoilers. yes?
This hasn’t happened with any other series of TUF, so people griping like its destroyed the fabric of their lives should re-appraise and move on.
'if you don't have humility as a fighter, fighting will bring humility to you...'
BTW Snowden
“LOL” at the caption for the pic, that got me good.
"Now you see that evil will always triumph, because good is dumb."
Spoilers
Anyone who calls results from a taped delayed event spoilers is a neanderthal.
Anyone who complains about results being reported, or tv results (hell with a gigantic warning) a spoiler is just an imbecile.
by Brent Nahmias on Nov 15, 2010 1:29 PM EST reply actions 3 recs
Since all of Bloody Elbow’s tape-delayed coverage contained “SPOILER WARNING” you just called the entire BE staff Neanderthals. Good stuff.
Getting bent out of shape over a fight promoter lying is like getting upset that a hooker won't kiss you. It betrays a deep lack of understanding of the nature of the profession.
No...
he was saying that people who complain about results given with a gigantic warning that there will be results are neanderthals.
Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
MMA Editor - SBNation.com
by Brent Brookhouse on Nov 15, 2010 1:43 PM EST up reply actions
that’s his second point, the one about imbeciles. In his first point, the claim is that the act of calling such results “spoilers” makes one a neanderthal.
Getting bent out of shape over a fight promoter lying is like getting upset that a hooker won't kiss you. It betrays a deep lack of understanding of the nature of the profession.
I wouldn't go as far as to call them neanderthals and imbeciles
But I agree with your general point.
If Derek Jeter clubbed a baby seal on earth day while wearing a mink coat and crocodile skin boots while burning tires on an iceberg, the reaction would be "Its OK Derek, you’re a Yankee." -First mammal to wear pants
“Michael Jordan-esque in his reporting is Josh Gross”
"I’m anti-stalling, not anti-wrestling." - lowellthehammer
no... no .no he's not
"Even Hulkamania wouldn't get you out of this hold"
"True strength is not always shown through victory. Stand up, try again and display strength of heart."
by the-gentle-way on Nov 15, 2010 1:51 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
I was thinking the same thing
Kid Nate must be stoked right now
"Tim Sylvia’s sphincter is demonstrably weaker than Andrei Arlovski’s chin." – hlebtasic
by Anthony Pace on Nov 15, 2010 2:02 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
People get way too worked up about the TUF spoiler thing. The only sin Gross committed by giving out the results was pissing off Zuffa, and he has to pay for that sin.
TUF is a reality show, look at the rest of the reality shows and the media around them. There are plenty of entertainment reporters who know the final people for Survivor, the Bachelor, amazing race, any other reality show that isn’t semi-live like Dancing with the stars. There are plenty of places where people can find those results if they want them, but the people that giving them out piss off the studios, and they lose their access as a result.
Exactly, Gross knew he was going to piss off the UFC. Now he wonders why no credentials?
He complains that the UFC isn’t letting him cover the events. WTF did he expect? He burned that bridge. Not the UFC.
Was Gross hired by ESPN proper or ESPN.com?
Just wondering if MMA coverage at the worldwide leader has graduated to network status or if it is still limited to the interweb.
Which is always brutal
"Don’t quote old fucks to me" – Brent Brookhouse
by Chris Barton on Nov 15, 2010 2:07 PM EST up reply actions
"@BloodyElbow it amazes me this guy gets hired. Scary!!!"
Is Dana talking about Gross or Snowden?
"Josh was not very sportsmanship."
by MMAInFeRioRiTy on Nov 15, 2010 2:06 PM EST reply actions 7 recs
Dana talks about Gross. Freaking Dana.
@jay83ca gross, hunts dumb but gross is a scumbag and a bad guy.
3 minutes ago via Twitter for BlackBerry® in reply to jay83ca
'scumbag' and 'bad guy' do me a lemon!
every now and then, just can’t help but see the odd crack in the ‘dana brand;’ tough but likeable, fair guy… not the hooker but the promoter with a heart of gold etc…
time will peel the layers of this guy like an onion… we’ll see.
'if you don't have humility as a fighter, fighting will bring humility to you...'
Okay
If I take myself and more importantly Gross out of this situation…
I get this news. I know reporting it could ruin the fun for a lot of fans. Potentially hurt the show and hurt the sport. Hurt the fighters being promoted on the show. That sucks.
On the other hand, now that I have the information sitting on it would feel like lying. I know it would.
That’s a tough call. I honestly don’t know what I’d do.
"Don’t quote old fucks to me" – Brent Brookhouse
I know
if I did report it I would expect a backlash and feel like I had it coming.
"Don’t quote old fucks to me" – Brent Brookhouse
by Chris Barton on Nov 15, 2010 2:13 PM EST up reply actions
Here’s the deal. “Reporters” like to go around taking dumps in other people punch bowls and then get all butt hurt when their are ramifications. ie Jim Gray.
"There wasn't a man voting for it that didn't think that under a setup of this kind he'd muscle in on the profits of the men abler than himself...But while he was thinking that he'd get unearned benefits from the men above he forgot about the men below who'd get unearned benefits too. He forgot about all his inferiors that would rush to drain him just as he hoped to drain his superiors...That was our real motive when we voted. That was the truth of it. But we didn't like to think it. So the less we liked it the louder we yelled about our love for the common good."
their=there
"There wasn't a man voting for it that didn't think that under a setup of this kind he'd muscle in on the profits of the men abler than himself...But while he was thinking that he'd get unearned benefits from the men above he forgot about the men below who'd get unearned benefits too. He forgot about all his inferiors that would rush to drain him just as he hoped to drain his superiors...That was our real motive when we voted. That was the truth of it. But we didn't like to think it. So the less we liked it the louder we yelled about our love for the common good."
Haha
As the sport gets bigger Dana has less and less control over the media.
“Wahhhhhh”
Come on dude this isnt a surprise.
In a perfect world dana would hire his own reporters to cover the UFC. Noticed how we now have ultimate insider, etc., Just think if the UFC has their own channel, they could not only pick content but choose how it is covered as well.
by destructivist on Nov 15, 2010 2:52 PM EST up reply actions
I don’t get why dana gets crucified for this. Every other sport has their own channel and their own insane media policies.
And other sports get crucified for insane media policies. See MLB.tv blackout regions (especially the Las Vegas market). Or the NFL blacking out games that don’t sell out. Or the role of bloggers in the media in any sport. AFAIK, the NHL is the only organization that has any sort of pro-blogger policies. Or the woman who wore a Florida Gator hat to a Arkansas Razorback press conference.
Dana and the UFC aren’t being unfairly criticized here.
Twitter: @Mike_Fagan_13
Overall…meh. It doesn’t seem like a move that’s inherently great or scary. No real strong opinion about it in general. But this…
But, of course, I can’t do anything about controlling the dissemination of news once it’s out.
Just to comment on this one small piece, that seemed rather disingenuous to me. It wouldn’t take a rocket scientist to figure out what would happen with that information once it got out there, especially when you’re dealing with spoilers.
identical case to how results for LIVE ufc events are handled. if you dont want to see it, why are you looking at a site that reports it?
by destructivist on Nov 15, 2010 2:54 PM EST up reply actions
I've come around on Gross
I congratulated him (while reminding him how dumb co-promotions is via Twitter).
I’m splitting the difference here – good guy, good job, good writer, shouldn’t have leaked TUF results.
Luke: What was our best moment?
Nate: When I banned Subo?
Luke: That was a good one.
When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift
Contributor for WatchKalibRun.com
Still Subo at Fightlinker.com
by Derek Suboticki on Nov 15, 2010 3:03 PM EST reply actions
ESPN, the worldwide leader in sports, has significantly upgraded their MMA coverage, adding the sport’s best reporter, Josh Gross, to their team.
Not a bad article but I did get a laugh at the very first sentence. I’m not sure I would call Josh Gross “the sport’s best reporter”.
Yeah… I didn’t take it personally.
Luke: What was our best moment?
Nate: When I banned Subo?
Luke: That was a good one.
When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift
Contributor for WatchKalibRun.com
Still Subo at Fightlinker.com
by Derek Suboticki on Nov 15, 2010 3:20 PM EST up reply actions
That’s an interesting question: who would you suggest? Please don’t list one of the stenographers who saves the UFC thousands on press releases but doesn’t really teach us much of anything about the sport.
by Jonathan Snowden on Nov 15, 2010 3:22 PM EST up reply actions
I hired Jeremy Botter and think he is awesome. But Josh Gross is Josh “fucking” Gross.
by Jonathan Snowden on Nov 15, 2010 3:31 PM EST up reply actions
maybe i am biased
since i have been following MMA forever and was a big fan of sherdog but i do think Josh gross is the best reporter. A close second although not sure you could label him a reporter would be Jordan breen. I think they both use an honest good insight into the sport.
its better to be a lion for a day than a sheep all your life
Why Jonathan Snowden of course :D
It is a loaded question being as it’s something based on personal preference but I’m sort of partial to Dave Meltzer and I also really like Ariel Helwani and Mike Chiappetta. I think it’s more for the personality instead of actual journalistic work but I also like Jordan Breen more than Josh Gross.
Yea
I don’t have an exhaustive knowledge of MMA journalists by any means, but I’d list each one of those guys above Gross.
I’m not kissing ass when I say that BE staff journalists are all better than Gross, regardless if they think so or not. There is a reason I read this site to begin with.
"Don’t quote old fucks to me" – Brent Brookhouse
by Chris Barton on Nov 15, 2010 4:17 PM EST up reply actions
I’d be weary of any “journalist” who collects a paycheck from the UFC or its partners.
Twitter: @Mike_Fagan_13
Me too. Or anyone who was a consultant without divulging that information.
by Jonathan Snowden on Nov 15, 2010 4:23 PM EST up reply actions
To add
If a guy gets any sort of “freebie” from a promotion, it should be a warning sign. That shit happens more and more in sports. Almost to the point where certain Sports Journalists effectively flaunt how “insider” they are.
"Don’t quote old fucks to me" – Brent Brookhouse
by Chris Barton on Nov 15, 2010 4:26 PM EST up reply actions
I'm wary of anyone that calls themself a "journalist"
As are most people in the world. Journalists routinely rank at the bottom of polls of the most respected professions. Usually hovering barely above politicians. Here’s but one from Britain. http://www.angus-reid.com/polls/39414/nurses_are_most_respected_professionals_in_britain/
"There wasn't a man voting for it that didn't think that under a setup of this kind he'd muscle in on the profits of the men abler than himself...But while he was thinking that he'd get unearned benefits from the men above he forgot about the men below who'd get unearned benefits too. He forgot about all his inferiors that would rush to drain him just as he hoped to drain his superiors...That was our real motive when we voted. That was the truth of it. But we didn't like to think it. So the less we liked it the louder we yelled about our love for the common good."
Well you should be
it’s another big “no no” in Journalistic Ethics.
Same answer to Snowden ;)
"Don’t quote old fucks to me" – Brent Brookhouse
by Chris Barton on Nov 15, 2010 4:25 PM EST up reply actions
The UFC may have to restore Gross's credentials
If ESPN UK designates him as one of there reporters I believe the UFC is contractually bound to credential him.
I understand the backlash towards Gross for leaking the results, but the notion that it "hurt the sport" or potentially could have is a bit disingenuous.
You know what else hurts the sport? Finding #1 contenders for your title belts through a crass, bootleg fake-ass-Real-World reality show. Because such an endeavor just SCREAMS credibility.
As dumbass as the season may have been
Do you mean that the fights were in fact worked?
The dumb thing was making them number one contenders.
There should be another “comeback” season but with no title implications
I like the idea
do it with guys who got cut previously and are trying to make it back to the UFC.
@TylerTreese on twitter
check out my site @IWannaPolka
I love gross.
He’s fair headed and even handed.
Something Dana White has never been.
"One should always be cold minded and remember that a ridiculous incident may occur any time."
how does an even handed person write an open letter to dana white about steroids, call for steroid users to be banned for the ufc for life, and then remain silent when strikeforce signs a 3 time steroid user?
by Phildo on Nov 15, 2010 6:39 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
This is an excellent question.
Luke: What was our best moment?
Nate: When I banned Subo?
Luke: That was a good one.
When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift
Contributor for WatchKalibRun.com
Still Subo at Fightlinker.com
by Derek Suboticki on Nov 15, 2010 8:20 PM EST up reply actions
Fan-freakin'-tastic!!!!
I was soured on Gross from one of his many appearances on Inside MMA when he continually answered questions from Bas and especially Kenny Rice with this sense of superiority and arrogance that made me really want to jump through the TV and smack that smug look off his face. Gross does bring a lot of insight into the sport, I don’t know what his deal is with Zuffa/UFC where he not necessarily downplays the UFC, but is on the jock of all Non-UFC promotions.
Gross is on-point with his delivery most of the time.
I love to read his writing, but as an editor, I cringe when I read his material. I cringe when I read most of Sherdog and MMAJunkie, in fact. The fact that Bloody Elbow, a site whose writers are paid next to nothing, takes bigger care in editing their work before publishing (not perfect in this regard, obviously) than Sherdog and the other big sites amazes me. I’m no grammar Nazi (or am I, since it’s my job), but when I read “professional,” articles, it’s what I expect.
And then God created Saturn... and he liked it, so he put a ring on it.
Twitter me and what not.
Not a fan of Gross
He got what he deserved with Zuffa. couldn’t care less if he ever gets credentialed.
Forget watergate and all the other comparisons. Imagine if, when at its peak, the results of survivor were published, what do you think CBS would do?
Wasn't Gross involved with the bullshit Lindland docu too?
If I were Dana I wouldn’t give this guy credentials. Fuck him.
All troll no soul
Josh gross is a joke. You can read all his ufc zingers. Figures Snowden would right this. Both useless to current mma journalism. Get with or all ready before your extinct.
by pmeout on Nov 16, 2010 9:41 PM EST via mobile reply actions
Sorry about the word scramble… Stupid swype
by pmeout on Nov 16, 2010 9:44 PM EST via mobile up reply actions

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