Dana White: Jose Aldo Is Not the Sport's Top Fighter
by Jonathan Snowden on Oct 5, 2010 5:00 PM EDT
in MMA Editorial
Email
Print
Rocky Balboa never lived up to his trainer's high expectations. Mick, who had worked with the greats like Rocky Marciano, wanted the Italian pug to eat lightning and crap thunder.
"You're going to become a very dangerous person."
For the most part, Rocky just blocked punches with his head, signed a power of attorney to give his drunken brother in law control of his finances, and ended up destitute on the streets of Philadelphia. He never ate a bit of lightning. Only crapped the occasional thunder. He was a danger mostly to himself. But Jose Aldo? He's another story all together.
The WEC featherweight champion is faster than lightning, with punches that pop louder than thunder. He brained Manny Gamburyan at WEC 51, just months after making former champ Urijah Faber's leg look like a test subject for the fine folks at crayola (apparently looking for just the right shade to call "bruise.") Aldo shows the potential to be one of the sport's all-time greats. No less an authority than Sports Illustrated's Josh Gross says he may already be the best fighter in the sport:
Others have taken the leap and are calling Aldo the top man in the business. Slow down.
UFC President Dana White calls himself a Jose Aldo fan. But White thinks calling him the best is a bit hasty. OK, it's Dana White - his actual words, charmingly provided to Comcast's Carmichael Dave, were a bit more colorful:
Aldo is an exciting young fighter. But I don't think you become the top fighter in the sport by beating Mike Brown and Manny Gamburyan. It's easy to look pretty impressive against midlevel competition - beating BJ Penn and Forrest Griffin is something else entirely. Professional wrestler Ric Flair said it best. "To be the man, you've got to beat the man." And while I respect Mike Brown, brother, he's not the man.
The featherweight division is just to fresh and shiny new to call anyone from the 145 pound class the best in the world. We are still sorting out the wheat from the chaff- some WEC officials believe it will be two years before the division has worked itself out. Until then, it's hard to say how good Aldo really is. It looks like the answer is "really good." But until he tests himself against other known quantities, it's hard to call him the best.
130 comments
|
3 recs |
Do you like this story?
Comments
Sure thing.
Roll the lighter classes into the UFC, give him a season of TUF, have him show what he’s got against in a Double Championship match against Edgar (or Maynard, or whoever) and make the dude either a star or a goat.
Easy peasy! Except for the damn media contracts.
http://fightdrinker.blogspot.com
by some schmuck in texas on Oct 5, 2010 5:06 PM EDT reply actions
Yes, but...
“Except for the damn media contracts.”
What if, instead of trying to merge WEC with the UFC, simply add a 145 class to the UFC, much as 155 already is.
Move the most marketable guys to the UFC and be done with the WEC except as the minors.
"Sometimes I wonder if the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on, or by imbeciles who really mean it."
-Mark Twain
"If I tell you I'm good, you would probably think I'm boasting. If I tell you I'm no good, you know I'm lying..."
-Bruce Lee
by The American Ronin on Oct 6, 2010 12:44 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
I don't know.
IMO, GSP is in the top two P4P with Silva (who is probably #1). Aldo isn’t in the top 2. Yet.
by pud333 on Oct 5, 2010 5:07 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
I pity the foo
Who ever talk about Rocky Balboa like that.
In front of me :-)
Jackie Treehorn treats his objects like women, man.
There is no way that Aldo can have a better resume than GSP or Anderson
But that’s just because he’s 23 and fights at 145. If you argue that Aldo is the best in the world, its not based on quality wins. Its based off of what you see with your eyes. When you watch Aldo fight, you see a lightning quick fighter who thinks three moves in advance. You see an intuitive striker who watches his opponents and finds just the right combo to take them out. You see a fighter that appears to be im fucking possible to take down. And you see the best leg kicks in the business at any weight. What you don’t see but have heard is that his jui jitsu is even better than his striking. So if seeing all of that you think he’s better than what you’ve seen of GSP or Andy, fair enough.
Disclaimer, I go 1. Andy 2. George 3. Aldo
"I am a man who pisses largely and frequently, which they say is a sign of great mental activity" -Henry Miller-
by Neil Manich on Oct 5, 2010 5:08 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
Aldo has cleared out the division though
i can’t think of anyone in the featherweight division who can stop Aldo. I say Aldo is at least in top 3 in my p4p ranking.
Korea's best MMA Blog, GOT MMA? gotmma.tistory.com
Also, there’s the fact that there’s probably a few people who would be top Featherweights if they weren’t busy fighting at LW in the UFC. Even leaving out Frankie Edgar who’s obviously tied up a bit, Tyson Griffin comes to mind, and I doubt he’s the only one. There just isn’t a lot of incentive to drop out of the UFC LW division if you have relative job security there to go fight in what is essentially the B-Leagues. Only Gamburyan has done it so far and I’m not sure he had much of a choice.
First off, there’s still Josh Grispi who is an arguable threat. 10 wins a row, the last 8 being in the first round, with wins over Mark Hominick, Micah Miller, and LC Davis among them, is nothing to sneeze at.
Beyond that, one problem is a lot of top Featherweights don’t actually fight in the WEC, including Aldo’s training partner Marlon Sandro, who is arguably #2 in the World, or Bibiano Fernandes. Michihiro Omigawa and Hatsu Hioki are other top Featherweights who have been on tears lately. They aren’t huge threats but they’re still the sort of people who add credibility to any claim that you’ve “cleaned out your division,” a claim people are making about Aldo because of wins over just three or four people. If the WEC paid 20k + 20k for top FWs who weren’t TUF winners or stars already under contract, they could have had Omigawa already.
by Chromium on Oct 5, 2010 6:04 PM EDT up reply actions 4 recs
Forgetting a few?
Hioki, Sandro, Omigawa and Bibiano would disagree.
by Anton Chigurh on Oct 5, 2010 8:31 PM EDT up reply actions
i dont see how GSP wouldnt be number 2 7 wins in a row
20-2
beat everyone at ww
frankie is 5 in a row with 13-1 i think
but only 1 belt defense
aldo only has 2 defenses so far and featherweight isnt stacked like welterweight or lightweight are
by Richard Doughty on Oct 5, 2010 5:09 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
And of those 7 wins in a row 5 of them are ranked in the top 8 according to this site. BJ Penn and Serra being the other 2
And Serra was ranked #1 at the time of the 2nd fight.
No one can compete with that recent resume IMO.
Sorry for the triple post. I am a huge GSP nuthugger. :D
and he hasn’t lost a round in like the last 25-30. and maynard beat frankie more recently than serra beat gsp. dana is an ass.
"I want to tell me what you see, let's go ahead and see by the fight what you saw, in the ring"
I thought the consensus was pretty much
1) Anderson Silva
2) GSP
3) ??? (Aldo is certainly plausible, but 3-4 wins at the top of his division isn’t enough to put you in the Top 3 p4p).
We will probably see...
…Zuffa run a TUF season of 145 and then put Aldo up against the winner of it to immediately crown a UFC 145 Champ and when Aldo destroys the guy he gets the Zuffa push for beating a TUF champion and that pleases the uneducated *(read casual fans) which is who Zuffa wants to please.
Support increased fighter pay. Support fighters unionizing.
Or they could just have Faber vs. Torres each coach a team of Featherweights, while facing off in a Bantamweight #1 Contender’s match or something, and you could introduce a whole bunch of middle-tier Featherweights without immediately making the winner look like a chump, and introduce two weight divisions at once in the process because of the coaches.
so who does Dana have at #3 ahead of GSP?
not to mention that calling Edgar #2 is obvious smoke blowing to build up Edgar despite the obviousness of GSP being #2
a life: it's the shit that happens while you're waiting for moments that never come -Lester Freamon
ah, but of course. how could i forget? silly me
a life: it's the shit that happens while you're waiting for moments that never come -Lester Freamon
by eastcoastatlas on Oct 6, 2010 8:03 AM EDT up reply actions
I can’t wrap my head around GSP being ranked under Edgar. Edgar has had an impressive streak, but its nothing compared to the reign of terror GSP has inflicted on his division, either in dominance or consistency.
?????????
8 second knock out!! Where’s GSP’s?
Not saying Aldo is the overall better fighter, but that’s pretty dominant.
http://fightdrinker.blogspot.com
by some schmuck in texas on Oct 5, 2010 5:16 PM EDT up reply actions
Where did i mention Aldo?
I just said I had a hard time seeing Edgard ranked over GSP.
As for Aldo; he has been exciting, but consistency proves greatness, not flashes of brilliance. I enjoy his performances but GSP and Silva have been putting them on for years against other tried and true competitors.
dur
it’s an Aldo post, got ahead of myself.
http://fightdrinker.blogspot.com
by some schmuck in texas on Oct 5, 2010 5:19 PM EDT up reply actions
We heard it with Urijah, Miguel and MT....
All of these guys looked unbeatable down there until they did not; it can be so hard to judge 35 and 45 because the talent is not as developed as say 205 or 170 (the divisions just havent been around long enough) …. I think Aldo is different because he looks so fast and has this amazing technique, but we need to see someone really push him and see how he acts when in a bad spot to know if he is truly one of the great… Does he pull off a the amazing or does he wilt when he cant do what he wants to do (think Mike Tyson)?.. I dont think so, but I don’t think you can put him above GSP or AS at this point. We still don’t know enough.
And Edgar ahead of GSP is laughable at this point.
And I also think Aldo would beat him in a fight straight up, so I don’t know how you have him even top 3 P4P*
*P4P is bs disclaimer….
I think only matters for the top 2-3 guys to select out best of best in the sport overall.
Snowden, you’ve said a lot of things I don’t agree with, but this has gone too far! Rocky Balboa was a multiple champion who was always undersized and against all odds beat everyone except for Antonio Tarver. He helped end the Cold War for Christ sake! I am officially calling for your resignation.
What has a face, but no head and has hands, but no arms?
If you can answer this you can be the new LSU football coach.
Mike Brown is mid-level?
I don’t believe that. Mike Brown was bullying fighters who were supposedly more skilled then he was and making it look easy. Then Aldo absolutely dismantled him.
"So, while you're taking a break from the UFC, hanging out at some lame party that your girlfriend dragged you to, I'll man up and watch some goddamn fights like a goddamn adult."
- Mike Fagan
Support independent artists
http://worldisart365.blogspot.com/
It depends what the author is talking about. Relative to the division, or relative to other divisions in MMA? In the division itself, those guys are the top two besides Aldo. I think by definition they almost have to be top level competition, if for no other reason than to avoid having Aldo being the only high level competitor in there (unless you’re trying to make that point).
Otherwise, if we’re talking relative to other divisions in MMA, yes those two are probably mid level compared to the #1 and #2 contenders of the UFC LHW division, etc.
by BurtBacharach on Oct 5, 2010 5:27 PM EDT up reply actions
I could not agree more with my doppelganger on this occasion. For what they are worth, here are my thoughts:
GSP has bested a champion or former champion on six occasions (Hughes x 2, BJ Penn x 2, Sherk, and Serra), and has beaten an opponent who was consensus top ten pound-for-pound when he faced them on five occasions (BJ Penn x 2, Hughes (when he took the title), Fitch and Alves). GSP has also avenged both of his losses in routs.
Jose Aldo has bested a champion or former champion on two occasions (Faber and Brown) and has beaten an opponent who was consensus top ten pound-for-pound when he faced them on one occasion (Brown). He has not, to this point, avenged his one and only loss.
Given that GSP only has merely three more fights total than Aldo, any P4P comparison between the two degenerates pretty quickly when one considers the immensely more prestigious competition GSP has faced. I find the desire to laud Aldo as the P4P # 1 merely the most recent expression of a very common tendency in the MMA community: to preemptively and excessively tout a fighter when he wins vis-a-vis devastating striking. We saw this with Lyoto Machida, A. Silva, Shogun circa 04-07, et al. The reality is that both Silva and GSP have far more impressive resumes.
Your old road is rapidly aging. Please get out of the new one, if you can't lend your hand - for the times they are a changin'. - Bob Dylan
by Jonathan Snowed In on Oct 5, 2010 5:24 PM EDT reply actions 8 recs
True
And I said as much in my post fight write up. The trouble is that Anderson is getting up there in age and I don’t fully buy that it was only a rib injury that slowed him down. Aldo uses leg kicks better than any fighter I’ve seen and has a killer instinct that’s just scary. If you get in trouble against him, he finishes you, period.
There’s a good chance that no one will ever go 12-0 in the UFC ever again. That alone keeps Anderson at #1 until he loses.
When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift
Contributor for WatchKalibRun.com
Still Subo at Fightlinker.com
by Derek Suboticki on Oct 5, 2010 5:47 PM EDT up reply actions
Aldo finishes fights! Snowden – too, to, two. Come on!
by 209BubbleTrousers on Oct 5, 2010 6:19 PM EDT up reply actions
I have him at #3 too
I think he is the most promising and exciting fighter in MMA though, even more then Jon Jones
Proud member of the newly established Frankie Edgar bandwagon
Cain will beat Brock, I am accepting sig bets.
Depends.
Does Aldo move up to 155 from here? If not, he can be as exciting as he wants but no one will care. It’d be cruel and unusual punishment to feed anyone currently in the WEC to him now.
If Jones gets past Bader and continues to be as impressive in his future bouts, the level of competition will make it way more exciting for me. Jones has been dominating on the ground lately but remember, he had some flashy standup beatdowns against Bonnar and O’Brien.
by BurtBacharach on Oct 5, 2010 5:32 PM EDT up reply actions
Flashy yes, but far from devastating.
He did some cool shit, but he lacked technique. I am more excited to see if he can’t take Bader down how he will react. And I agree that Aldo only has one or 2acceptable challenges at FW, but what interests me so much is if his reflexes and balance will be able to keep him off of his back against a big wrestler at LW.
Proud member of the newly established Frankie Edgar bandwagon
Cain will beat Brock, I am accepting sig bets.
ignore the one and then the 2
I was trying to type fast im in school.
Proud member of the newly established Frankie Edgar bandwagon
Cain will beat Brock, I am accepting sig bets.
I’d call that backwards spinning elbow pretty devastating. I don’t disagree that he lacked technique but he’s quickly making up for that.
by BurtBacharach on Oct 5, 2010 5:42 PM EDT up reply actions
that's my main objection is that we have not seen if he has improved on the feet.
his last 3 fights have ended within the first round via hellbows.
Proud member of the newly established Frankie Edgar bandwagon
Cain will beat Brock, I am accepting sig bets.
Not like
we’ve seen much of Jose’s ground game either.. (though considering his BJJ credentials and the fact that he apparently spends a lot of time working on wrestling I’m sure it is solid)
Jon Jones has easily destroyed his opponents with brutal GnP just like Jose Aldo’s incredible striking wrecked everyone he’s been put up against.
No matter who is potentially better I think we all agree that these 2 guys are going to lead MMA into the future. I love guys like Shogun but I give his generation 1 or 2 more years max. The only 2 current older fighters I can see possibly still being champions are Anderson Silva and GSP.
by Roa on Oct 5, 2010 7:46 PM EDT up reply actions
Aldo is a nova uniao product, i'm not worried in the least about his ground game.
point is that I have seen Jones’ stand-up game and I see major holes, and I hope he is fixing them.
Proud member of the newly established Frankie Edgar bandwagon
Cain will beat Brock, I am accepting sig bets.
but what interests me so much is if his reflexes and balance will be able to keep him off of his back against a big wrestler at LW.
I agree with this too, it’s always the question. Look at Edgar vs. Maynard, same thing. I have the utmost respect for great wrestlers but I find it more fun to watch when someone can really take a wrestler out of their game and keep it standing. It’s becoming rarer and rarer these days.
by BurtBacharach on Oct 5, 2010 5:45 PM EDT up reply actions
Edgar > GSP??
I'm gonna give you three seconds; exactly three-fucking-seconds to wipe that stupid looking grin off your face or I will gouge out your eyeballs and skull-fuck you!
The most ludicrous thing in this article is the part where Frankie Edgar is in the P4P discussion
I grudgingly put him atop the LW rankings, just like I’ll grudgingly put Maynard atop the LW rankings after he UDs Edgar (and bores the rest of us to death).
I might have to accept fighters who can’t finish anyone and don’t hurt anyone wearing belts and being ranked in their divisions, but I’m sure as shit not going to let them into my fictional P4P rankings, damnit.
Also Aldo would obliterate Frankie. Tomorrow. At their respective current weights.
Tatum: I think he's a good man. I like him. I got nothing against him, but I'm definitely gonna make orphans of his children.
How can you not be a top P4P fighter after taking apart BJ Penn?
TWICE. What Frankie did was arguably more impressive than what GSP did to BJ, considering the size difference. I don’t understand how you don’t put him up there with GSP and Silva.
"There's this image that you have, this interior image of something that's absolutely perfect, and that's your signpost, your guide. And you'll never get there. But without it you'll never get anywhere."
He did not take apart BJ twice. He eked out a close and highly-questionable decision once and scored a decisive decision (in which he did no significant damage and never threatened to finish) in his most recent fight. And those are his two signature accomplishments.
In the weight class rankings, the only thing that should matter is who a fighter has beaten, but p4p rankings are trying to get at the larger question of who the best fighters are. Do you really think that Frankie Edgar is the third best fighter on earth? Think before you answer, because unless your name rhymes with tight-thistler, I’m pretty sure you don’t.
Edgar could very easily go off as an underdog in his second straight title defense. I personally pick Gray Maynard, who I also don’t like, to beat him. Is that a guy who we should be talking about as an all-world great.
Edgar is benefiting from a fun little rock-paper-scissors game in the muddled LW division. It would appear that he is BJ Penn’s kryptonite. If that means he’s the UFC LW champ and the #1 LW at this moment, groovy, but he is no way a top P4P guy.
Fitch, Machida, Rua, Fedor and Aldo all have more impressive resumes than Edgar. Maynard is about to have a more impressive resume than him. Good for Frankie for what he’s accomplished, but please.
Tatum: I think he's a good man. I like him. I got nothing against him, but I'm definitely gonna make orphans of his children.
by Dave Strummer on Oct 5, 2010 6:03 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Frankie has three signature accomplishments
Beating Sean Sherk puts you in a class with Matt Hughes, GSP and BJ Penn.
When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift
Contributor for WatchKalibRun.com
Still Subo at Fightlinker.com
by Derek Suboticki on Oct 5, 2010 6:04 PM EDT up reply actions
Do you honestly think
that Frankie Edgar is the third best mixed martial artist on earth? The fifth best?
Matt Hughes had the longest run of title defenses in the history of his division — one of the best in the sport — GSP finished Matt Hughes and started his own incredible string of title wins. Frankie Edgar won a title in a questionable manner and defended it once. Odds say he’s got a real good shot of getting beat in his next defense. I think its insane to put him in that conversation.
Tatum: I think he's a good man. I like him. I got nothing against him, but I'm definitely gonna make orphans of his children.
by Dave Strummer on Oct 5, 2010 6:12 PM EDT up reply actions
I put him in the top eleventy.
and I’m only willing to do this because eleventy isn’t a real number.
by Brandon Starr on Oct 5, 2010 6:18 PM EDT up reply actions 4 recs
I'll give him eleventy
Tatum: I think he's a good man. I like him. I got nothing against him, but I'm definitely gonna make orphans of his children.
by Dave Strummer on Oct 5, 2010 6:22 PM EDT up reply actions
You wouldn’t put Edgar in the top five? GSP, Anderson, Aldo, Rua I’ll give you. Then who? Lyoto? Fitch? Cruz? I just don’t see it.
"I am a man who pisses largely and frequently, which they say is a sign of great mental activity" -Henry Miller-
I’d put the first five guys following GSP at WW, the first three guys following Shogun at LHW, Jake Shields, the UFC’s top three HWs, and Cyborg Santos ahead of Frankie Edgar. I don’t even think he beats Melendez or Florian, let alone Maynard or Aldo. If he fought Aldo, I don’t think it ends much differently than the Faber fight.
He is BJ Penn’s kryptonite – he moves well laterally and doesn’t stand there straight ahead where BJ’s boxing flourishes, and he’s a good enough wrestler to stay out of trouble on the ground. He also beat T-Rex-boxer Sean Sherk, a great win, but not any better than some of the wins held by the people I just mentioned.
That's nuts
Who the hell has Josh Koscheck beat that’s anywhere near BJ Penn or Sean Sherk?
When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift
Contributor for WatchKalibRun.com
Still Subo at Fightlinker.com
by Derek Suboticki on Oct 5, 2010 11:04 PM EDT up reply actions
As far as Kos goes, he doesn’t have a better win then Penn, I’ll give you that. But I’d take the wins over Daley and Diego Sanchez over Sherk and Franca. Sherk hasn’t been the same since he beat Florian, lot of layoffs and injuries. The Dunham fight was the best he looked in a while. He’s a great fighter still when he’s healthy and sticks to the right strategy, but you’re telling me the guy who got pummeled by Dunham is heads and shoulders above Diego Sanchez right now?
The same Diego Sanchez
who trained less than 6 weeks (and that’s generous) for his last bout with some nobody after bailing on his coaches, got drunk all the time, and didn’t give a shit about anything but his own ego? Yeah, Dunham is head and shoulders above Diego Sanchez.
And no, the above is not insider info or anything like that. Anybody who spends time in PB could have seen Diego dropping his cash like it was on fire in clubs nonstop.
"Someone is WRONG on the internet. What do you want me to do? LEAVE? Then they'll keep being wrong!"
-Randall Munroe
Yeah Dana lost me with the Frankie thing.
He beat Penn ONCE. Just because Frankie did a good job in the second fight doesn’t mean we should just forget that first robbery. The ONE time he did beat Penn it wasn’t because Frankie looked sooooo dominant and musular and handsome, it’s that Penn looked like shit. He looked like a shot fighter that was a shell of his former self. I don’t think Penn is shot, I’m saying that’s how he looked in that fight. His one strong performance against a lame BJ doesn’t shoot Edgar into conversations with AS, Fedor, GSP, Aldo, and Minowa.
by Brandon Starr on Oct 5, 2010 6:05 PM EDT up reply actions
Very original choice of words.
The Seahawks are terrible.
/butt hurt
by Brandon Starr on Oct 5, 2010 8:00 PM EDT up reply actions
I'm not that butt hurt. Hasselbeck rapes me numb every week with his worthless QB play.
You sound like a gigantic Penn fan giving no credit to Edgar at all.
Michael Robinson leads the Seahawks in completion percentage, yards-per-attempt, and QB rating.
I'm not even that big of a Penn fan these days. He actually kinda pissed me off with his most recent blog too...
but this is about Edgar being considered #2 p4p which I, and it seems many others, think is ridiculous. He is getting that ranking because of his win (yes win, not wins) over Penn; therefore, I have to discuss that fight to even have this conversation. I think Edgar looked above average and Penn looked below average. Edgar looked like he was fast and in shape; Penn looked terrible. Edgar just doesn’t strike me as that great of a fighter, far from top five, let alone top 2.
I’m not like some of the other Penn fans you’ll talk to from Hawaii. I’m not from here, I’m from Tacoma. I liked Penn as a legit badass when he cared about being a legit badass. I think if he showed up in the same shape that he was in last time he would lose to Edgar again, but not because Edgar is anything great.
by Brandon Starr on Oct 5, 2010 8:20 PM EDT up reply actions
This we can agree on
I cannot get my head around Edgar being ranked that high on any p4p list. Plus as much as I like Frankie, there is no way his reign will last for a long period of time.
Michael Robinson leads the Seahawks in completion percentage, yards-per-attempt, and QB rating.
I have Aldo #1 p4p in mma
It’s not just who he’s beaten but how he’s beaten them. Destroying all the top competition his division has to offer is enough for me to move him past GSP and Silva. Hopefully Aldo makes an eventual jump into the WECs 155 lb division and proves his worth by becoming champion and then goes into the UFC.
If Andy Silva looks impressive against Belfort like I suspect he will then that’ll temporarily vault him back to #1. Same goes for GSP against fragile (intentional) rock.
by Johnnynumber5 on Oct 5, 2010 5:32 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
My insignificant top p4p rankings
1. Jr Aldo
2. Silva
3. GSP
4. Shogun
5. Fedor
6. Edgar
7. Belfort
8. Shields
9. Diaz
10. Cruz
by Johnnynumber5 on Oct 5, 2010 5:38 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Diaz?
Yeesh
"I am a man who pisses largely and frequently, which they say is a sign of great mental activity" -Henry Miller-
how about
1 Herschel
2 CB Dollaway
3 Travis Lutter
4 Greg Nagy
…
I can’t continue like this.
http://fightdrinker.blogspot.com
by some schmuck in texas on Oct 5, 2010 5:47 PM EDT up reply actions
Some guys who should go ahead of Diaz and Belfort....
Jon Fitch, Lyoto Machida, Rashad Evans, BJ Penn, Gray Maynard, a half dozen other guys at 170, Gilbert Melendez, and I could continue on…
"So, while you're taking a break from the UFC, hanging out at some lame party that your girlfriend dragged you to, I'll man up and watch some goddamn fights like a goddamn adult."
- Mike Fagan
Support independent artists
http://worldisart365.blogspot.com/
I might have to accept fighters who can’t finish anyone and don’t hurt anyone wearing belts and being ranked in their divisions
That would be a good thing.
I'm a lover not a fighter
I still got it ;)
And I do accept it, though I don’t have to be happy about it.
Tatum: I think he's a good man. I like him. I got nothing against him, but I'm definitely gonna make orphans of his children.
by Dave Strummer on Oct 5, 2010 6:13 PM EDT up reply actions
If you have Jose Aldo even in your top 5 p4p
You are a major, major idiot.
Follow me on Twitter: @MMANation.
I agree that it’s too early. He needs to go up to 155 to really prove himself. There’s just not enough competition down there for anyone to really tell. A lot of successful guys in the WEC were supposed to take their respective UFC divisions by storm and didn’t when the company was absorbed.
Also, I don’t think it’s a big deal to say he should move to 155. Edgar is in a lot of people’s top 5 and it’s not a stretch to say he could fight at 145.
by BurtBacharach on Oct 5, 2010 5:40 PM EDT up reply actions
You're a major idiot if you have a top 5 P4P list.
And you take it very seriously.
I'm a lover not a fighter
by spectaa on Oct 5, 2010 5:48 PM EDT up reply actions 6 recs
That’s pretty bold. What if you have Alistair Overeem as the #1 heavyweight in the world today?
When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift
Contributor for WatchKalibRun.com
Still Subo at Fightlinker.com
by Derek Suboticki on Oct 5, 2010 5:49 PM EDT up reply actions
Or Jesse Holland, a member of the esteemed meta rankings.
When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift
Contributor for WatchKalibRun.com
Still Subo at Fightlinker.com
by Derek Suboticki on Oct 5, 2010 5:56 PM EDT up reply actions
We do not speak of the strange folk at MMA Mania…
Not that I condone facism or any ism for that matter. Isms are in my opinion, not good. A person shouldn't believe in an ism, he should believe in himself.
I quote John Lennon, "I don't believe in Beatles, I just believe in me". Good point there, after all he was the walrus. I could be the walrus. Wouldn't change the fact I have to bum rides off of people.
Harsh.
What if I base my p4p only on cage backflips?
by Brandon Starr on Oct 5, 2010 6:11 PM EDT up reply actions
More or less of an idiot than if you think Frankie Edgar is a #2 P4P?
Because I’d rather be the Aldo kind of idiot than the Dana White kind of idiot in this equation. I accept that 145 is not as deep as other divisions, but Aldo has beaten everyone they put in front of him in violent, destructive fashion. He’s defended his title twice and is widely considered to be unstoppable at 145. How does that not put him in the conversation?
Tatum: I think he's a good man. I like him. I got nothing against him, but I'm definitely gonna make orphans of his children.
by Dave Strummer on Oct 5, 2010 6:17 PM EDT up reply actions
When the announcers where talking about people considering Jose to be the top p4p fighter I thought it was silly
but now it seems like this sentiment has started spreading like a wildfire.
West coast sucks a dick. 2Pac had nothing on Big and Easy E and Magic Johnson got HIV cause West Coast broads are dirty as hell. I wish I was from New Jersey because the shitty bagels and pizza I have out here are making my butthole bleed.
I think calling him the top P4P fighter is silly
I think calling him “a” top P4P fighter is more than reasonable. Luke is saying that having him in the top 5 makes you a moron.
Tatum: I think he's a good man. I like him. I got nothing against him, but I'm definitely gonna make orphans of his children.
by Dave Strummer on Oct 5, 2010 7:50 PM EDT up reply actions
I agree with this article
145 is just too new and shallow in talent, for now. It’s also the reason Brock Lesnar (and even Cain Velasquez) can’t be a top P4P guy. Their divisions are just too thin.
"There's this image that you have, this interior image of something that's absolutely perfect, and that's your signpost, your guide. And you'll never get there. But without it you'll never get anywhere."
the reason Lesnar can't be a p4p best
is more than that – you prove it by beating credible guys bigger than you. Since there are no credible fighters bigger than Lesnar, QED.
http://fightdrinker.blogspot.com
by some schmuck in texas on Oct 5, 2010 5:55 PM EDT up reply actions
Anderson looked super well rounded last time out.
When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift
Contributor for WatchKalibRun.com
Still Subo at Fightlinker.com
by Derek Suboticki on Oct 5, 2010 6:00 PM EDT up reply actions
Huh?
You have to be small for the weight class to be p4p? Forrest Griffin is probably the only size disadvantage Anderson Silva has ever been at.
When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift
Contributor for WatchKalibRun.com
Still Subo at Fightlinker.com
by Derek Suboticki on Oct 5, 2010 5:56 PM EDT up reply actions
Everyone expects Goliath to beat David.
And it was the Griffin win that finally had me believing the hype about Silva. Until then I figured it was Fedor…why? Because he was pounding the shit out of guys bigger than him!
http://fightdrinker.blogspot.com
by some schmuck in texas on Oct 5, 2010 6:12 PM EDT up reply actions
Jose Aldo takes Edgar's spot in that top 3.
Dana’s trying to make Edgar more marketable.
If Aldo and Edgar fought, Edgar will be spanked by so many heavy leg kicks that he won’t be able to jump around like a Mexican bean for 25 minutes.
No way would Edgar last 25 minutes
I could see Gray Maynard maybe grinding it out to a decision but Aldo would still take it. But Edgar? Nah. Aldo matches or even outclasses him in his best aspect, speed.
by Roa on Oct 5, 2010 7:56 PM EDT up reply actions
i hate the p4p argument
aldos awesome, gsps awesome, silvas awesome, edgars awesome. there done
We have a saying back home that if your coming on, COME ON!!!!
by milk72 on Oct 5, 2010 5:41 PM EDT reply actions 2 recs
Your, sir, are correct. I can argue all day about how 145 comp is subpar, how Silva has looked unimpressive against unimpressive comp whilst GSP dominates everyone, etc. At the ened of the day, their all great.
And can we stop the talk of Aldo >Edgar. Both are natural 145’s but Edgar has actually fought at 155 and beaten all comers except for a big strong Maynard. Jeez you think the guy would get respect by now
Dear audio diary: Today I may have accidentally registered myself as a sex offender! WHAT IS WRONG WITH MY LIFE
- T-Rex
by sitnam90 on Oct 5, 2010 6:14 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
No, because Aldo>Edgar
Aldo is every bit as fast as Frankie and has KO power and finishing instinct. He would kick his leg into hamburger to slow his bouncy ass down and knock him out in the second round.
The good news is, you probably don’t need to take my word for it, because I’ll bet green money that Aldo is moving up, and Frankie will be a good second fight for him after he loses his title to Maynard.
Tatum: I think he's a good man. I like him. I got nothing against him, but I'm definitely gonna make orphans of his children.
by Dave Strummer on Oct 5, 2010 6:27 PM EDT up reply actions
P4P rankings are silly and meaningless, it’s an opinion game and it’s not really worth arguing over IMO.
As much as I love Aldo, I have to agree with the article here. It’s definitely too early calling him the greatest ever, especially considering the smaller pond that 145 still is. Come back in a few years if he’s still unbeaten.
P4P discussions lead to some really intelligent comments and breakdowns
Sure a lot of it is just “Brah GSP would f up Anderson Silva” but just as much is solid MMA discussion.
by Roa on Oct 5, 2010 7:58 PM EDT up reply actions
p4p is silly, BUT
If Gamburyan doesn’t impress Dana as a win for Aldo, why did he get a title shot to begin with. It ‘s almost as if they’re afraid he’ll outshine Edgar..
Scoring points against BJ Penn IMO is less impressive than destroying guys like Mike Brown, and Uriah Faber.
..!..
So out pointing and down right emberrasing a p4p great who has beaten fighters way above his weight class and won, and who had a nearly unblemished LW record, is less impressive then too guys who couldn’t compete at 155
Dear audio diary: Today I may have accidentally registered myself as a sex offender! WHAT IS WRONG WITH MY LIFE
- T-Rex
by sitnam90 on Oct 5, 2010 6:18 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Do you also have a username that is NJmmafan?
You can’t watch that second Penn Edgar fight and say “fuck yeah, Edgar just dominated Penn at his best”. He won the fight and he can get the props for it but BJ looked TERRIBLE. Edgar never came close to threatening a finish and didn’t do anything more than score more points.
by Brandon Starr on Oct 5, 2010 6:21 PM EDT up reply actions
Yes.
KOing the champion, destroying the former champion and KOing the #1 contender without ever losing a round or being put in any danger is more impressive than winning a jobbed decision for a title and out-pointing BJ Penn once.
Tatum: I think he's a good man. I like him. I got nothing against him, but I'm definitely gonna make orphans of his children.
by Dave Strummer on Oct 5, 2010 6:22 PM EDT up reply actions
I guess we will have to agree t disagree, but I simply think BJ is better competition than anyone in 145. And the second win was as dominating a performance one can have over Penn.
Jose Aldo is a great fighter and he can rule 145 for a long time, but until he moves up to 155, he is gonna be a big fish in a small pond.
Dear audio diary: Today I may have accidentally registered myself as a sex offender! WHAT IS WRONG WITH MY LIFE
- T-Rex
by sitnam90 on Oct 5, 2010 6:38 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Nobody will answer the central question
Can you say, with a straight face: “Frankie Edgar is the third best fighter on the planet?”
Tatum: I think he's a good man. I like him. I got nothing against him, but I'm definitely gonna make orphans of his children.
by Dave Strummer on Oct 5, 2010 7:49 PM EDT up reply actions
When will people let the Serra loss go? It was over 3 years ago...
Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try Again. Fail again. Fail better. -Samuel Beckett
Reasoning will never make a man correct an ill opinion, which by reasoning he never acquired. -Jonathan Swift
by Scott C. Broussard on Oct 5, 2010 6:46 PM EDT reply actions
I think GSP is the best. He had the toughest path to where he is, especially having to take the title from Hughes, the most dominate WW ever and then beating him agian.
And I feel like the contenders he fought were tougher then Silva’s
It's kind of weak to say that Aldo isn't the man because Brown wasn't the man.
Because at the time Aldo battered Brown, Brown was considered the man. People were looking at Brown as a top 10 p4p and was wrecking people. He beat the top 145er to be the 145 king and then beat the only 145 legend. That automatically makes him top 7 p4p (because the champ in each weight class gets a spot in it) and based on his performances it’s easy to vault him into the top 3 stratosphere. I know it doesn’t matter but I rank him number 3 behind GSP and Anderson. If he pounds out Grispi and Chad Mendes though, it’d be nigh impossible not to say he’s the best because he’d have beaten every type of fighter, and top level guys at their skill set, handily.
You have to look at the WAY Aldo fights, not just WHO he has fought
Obviously there’s no clear-cut way to determine p4p. You can say what you will about Faber, Brown, and Gamburian, but in my mind these are at the very least “for real” fighters. The case for Aldo comes in the way he beat them — his confidence, and the fact that he really, really hurt these guys. It’s like with Jon Jones — it’s that you can see, plain as day, just how much faster, stronger, and clear-headed his than most other fighters out there.
I agree. Being the best is different than having the best body of work. But obviously being tested by more/better fighters lends credibility to that claim and takes away the argument, “He hasn’t fought X yet.”
The problem is that WHO they've fought is the only concrete measurement
Once you start talking about HOW someone fights you just get into an endless and impossible subjective hypothetical argument about “who would win”.
Although i do think if it’s close you should rank KOs and subs above decs.
"The only freakshow's the one in my pants"
-James Toney
by chasethegoose on Oct 6, 2010 5:08 AM EDT up reply actions
Sorry Mr. White.
You’re not going to convince me that Frankie Edgar is number 2 in the world. Even if you did, I sill wouldn’t order that terrible fight. My head will hurt enough as it is from the night before to sit through that.
The entire
pound for pound argument is stupid.
Forget it Donny, you're out of your element.
CagesideSeats.com
Follow me on Twitter at GenoMrosko
It's no more or less stupid than blogging about MMA in the first place
The P4P argument is as good a way as any to discuss fighters, there skills and where they fit in the larger scheme of things. Sneering about how stupid P4P arguments are is the laziest meme in MMA.
Tatum: I think he's a good man. I like him. I got nothing against him, but I'm definitely gonna make orphans of his children.
by Dave Strummer on Oct 5, 2010 9:25 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Nothing new to see here.
WEC just doesn’t have all the 145 talent. Get omigawa and bibi over to fight aldo and then we can crank the guy up the list.
I love aldo but mike brown, manny & faber are all way overrated just because they are under the zuffa banner.
edgar beat penn the first time in a controversial fight,just like gsp and he beat penn more convincingly the 2d time
Just like GSP,so thats make him better than GSP in THE P4P rankings,thats BS from dana.
Comments For This Post Are Closed
Secondary Sidebar
User Tools
Related FanPosts on Bloody Elbow
Related FanShots on Bloody Elbow
FanPosts
Community blog posts and discussion.
Recommended FanPosts
Recent FanPosts
MMA Rankings
