46 Year Old Ken Shamrock Wants Cage Time
by Nate Wilcox on Oct 4, 2010 10:26 AM EDT
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Ken talks to Sherdog and blames ring rust for his recent losses:
"The money wasn't there, and there wasn't enough organizations around that could pay that kind of money," he said. "All day long you could get fights for $1,200 or $5,000, but you're not going to get them for anymore than that. They're just not there."
However, Shamrock believes he's found a solution. He said he has worked out a deal with veteran promotion King of the Cage, which holds pay-per-views and also airs on HDNet, to fight regularly and also use his popularity to build the KOTC brand.
"I'm going to be able to fight a lot more often under a contract I'll have with them," he said, "and I'll be able to get paid."
The 17-year veteran of professional MMA acknowledged that he's had a rough couple of years. In addition to struggling inside the cage, he lost a contract dispute with the UFC in April and was ordered to pay the company $175,000 in legal fees.
This is the part of the fight game that's the hardest to stomach. It's been a sad cliche of fight sports since at least the 1930s when former boxing champ Jack Dempsey was reduced to doing worked bouts with pro wrestlers. Perhaps no spectacle was sadder than the 1950s plight of Joe Louis who was forced by an enormous IRS debt to face Rocky Marciano in a virtual snuff bout.
I was never a particular fan of Ken Shamrock, but I have a huge respect for his accomplishments and contributions to MMA. It is sad to see him like this, reduced to fighting for a paycheck long after he should have left the cage.
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I’m surprised Ken hasn’t made another run at pro wrestling.
"So, while you're taking a break from the UFC, hanging out at some lame party that your girlfriend dragged you to, I'll man up and watch some goddamn fights like a goddamn adult."
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by Worldisart on Oct 4, 2010 10:41 AM EDT reply actions 1 recs
This.
I’ve thought that Shamrock could be reasonably successful getting back into wrestling. If nothing else, Vince McMahon would be glad to put the cage fighter out on TV to get beat by all his stars, showing indeed that pro wrestling is “superior” to MMA.
That said, I’m glad this hasn’t happened. While Ken needs the money, I don’t know that he needs the abuse of wrestling 100-150 nights a year. Sadly, I see this idea causing a lot more problems to Shamrock’s health. You’d hope that a fighter with a legacy like Ken Shamrock would have an easier time making ends meet, but I guess that wanton spending and burning bridges isn’t the best way to get ahead in life.
youre right....
He is way too old for the look that the WWE goes for. I mean lets be honest….. Ken has old man boobs at this point. They dont want that on WWE. lol
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They kept Ric Flair’s manboobs on tv for a long time.
by FragglesHateKos on Oct 4, 2010 2:43 PM EDT up reply actions
Ric’s still showing them off on TNA but then Ric Flair is Ric Flair, he’s been in the business for nearly 40 years and still gets a bigger fan reaction than most of the current stars.
by who me on Oct 4, 2010 3:30 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
The best thing going tuh-day!
Have you ever noticed that anybody driving slower than you is an idiot, and anyone going faster than you is a maniac?
George Carlin
Ken couldn’t handle the WWE’s schedule, pro wrestling is harder on the body than MMA is. He could probably wrestle TNA’s schedule but they wouldn’t pay him shit for it.
I’m still slightly surprised he isn’t more involved in wrestling. I heard he was backstage meeting people at a WWE event in Buffalo, but that may have been years ago. He could make some easy money going to fanfests and making spot appearances in the indies. Shamrock seems like he wants to make money one way and one way only, which is getting beat down on a semi-regular basis.
I think sadly MMA is better for him.
As much grief as pro wrestling might get, it is pretty hard on the body. It doesn’t give you three months to train and recover, it’s a near nightly ordeal that I think would just grind him down all the faster.
What needs to happen is the UFC and he could bury the hatchet and we’d see him retire in an office job while still doing the occasional publicity for them. That though will probably never happen as Ken does not in the least seem like one to suck up his pride. :(
by Empty Thoughts on Oct 4, 2010 12:37 PM EDT up reply actions
It's pretty bad when you can legitly say MMA is healthier than Pro Wrestling
Vince has those guys running slave contracts
Those guys are making millions, though.
And then God created Saturn... and he liked it, so he put a ring on it.
Twitter me and what not.
Hendo
One of the many SF fighters I’d pay NOT to see.
Feed him to a prospect but dont waste another main event of this has-been/never-was
Whaaat? If you’re talking about Dan Henderson and not some other Hendo I don’t know about…you ARE a lunatic.
http://www.instrength.com
The lose – jump weight class lose – jump weight class lose – jump weight class cycle got old in PRIDE.
The guy has zero major wins. The big name he’s beat?
Bisping – #13 MW
Silva – Coming of a loss
Belfort – Dude was 2-2 (with 2 weak wins) and tested hot after the fight
Rich Franklin – Franklin’s no weight class period, split decision
Besides the fact he never defended a title and lost his last 185 fight but since PRIDE didn’t actually make their champs defend…he got to run away and keep his belt. Every time he’s been against a real top fighter in their prime he’s lost.
by Lunatic-Fridge on Oct 4, 2010 10:50 AM EDT up reply actions
I'm confused
Why is he talking about Dan Henderson?
"So, while you're taking a break from the UFC, hanging out at some lame party that your girlfriend dragged you to, I'll man up and watch some goddamn fights like a goddamn adult."
- Mike Fagan
Support independent artists
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Yeah, the only guy to ever hold two belts in Pride has zero major wins. Okay champ.
http://www.instrength.com
If PRIDE made their champs defend in every fight, he wouldn’t have either of those belts.
by Lunatic-Fridge on Oct 4, 2010 10:58 AM EDT up reply actions
Why are you talking about Dan Henderson?
This is an article about Ken Shamrock. You seem to be very confused.
"So, while you're taking a break from the UFC, hanging out at some lame party that your girlfriend dragged you to, I'll man up and watch some goddamn fights like a goddamn adult."
- Mike Fagan
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by Worldisart on Oct 4, 2010 10:59 AM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
I wanted to say "I won't take the time to respond to this," but...
Bisping is an upper-level gatekeeper who doesn’t get hit hard often. His wig has come off once and we know to who.
Wanderlei Silva was basically the major win at 205 in pride.
Belfort pissing hot does not take away from a win against him. BELFORT (increased strength? How do you steroid inject a name?) wouldn’t be a worse win than Belfort.
Rich Franklin wasn’t an awesome win at the time, but he needed one and got it.
"All I guarantee is violence" - Wand
so when hendo beats babalu
We are all gonna make sure your not jumping back on the band wagon. If you hate him that’s fine, but he had 1 bad showing against a top mw guy and suddenly he’s a has been/never was?
That’s what pisses me off about a lot of mma “fans” these days. We are all so quick to critisize these fighters and jump on and off there bandwagons that we forget that they could beat any of our asses any day of the week. Anyone that’s involved in the sport probably won’t badmouth any other fighter on the net. (unless they’re Shane carwin, chael sonnen or tito)
Henderson was excelling in one of the toughest sports in the world when you were probably still in diapers. At least get your facts straight before you start bashing guys that aren’t even in the topic of this post. Just my opinion.
"Catch Wrestlers don't look for opportunities, we create them" - Josh Barnett
by Submit24 on Oct 4, 2010 10:59 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Ok....this got posted to wrong wrong topic
B/E seems to crash every 4th topic for me…either puts the comment on the wrong forum or triple posts it…
The OP of “One of the many fighters I’d pay NOT to see.” goes double for Shamrock.
by Lunatic-Fridge on Oct 4, 2010 11:00 AM EDT up reply actions
he’s also a refridgerator
I’ve got big walnuts. Gorilla nuts.
by Austin Martin on Oct 4, 2010 11:36 AM EDT up reply actions
Never-was?
the only person to ever hold two championship belts at once no matter what YOU think of PRIDE competition is enough to make sure he is and was a somebody in this sport.
Nice
I'm the best ever. You're the most average in a minute.
by slapjaw ackrite on Oct 4, 2010 1:12 PM EDT up reply actions
Now that's a fight not fit for PPV
Severn Vs K. Shamrock: Brawl at the geriatric clinic
Then he can get poked in the eye
and Seth Pe…. oh that happened already.
It's tough to feel real sorry for Ken
He could have parlayed his reputation as a pioneer of the sport into a nice little business with appearances, gyms and conceivably even color commentary, but he has chosen to alienate the people and organizations around him at every turn.
I agree that old, damaged fighters working for paychecks is an awful spectacle, but in many cases, Ken’s including, you have to wonder at the choices that bring them to that point.
Tatum: I think he's a good man. I like him. I got nothing against him, but I'm definitely gonna make orphans of his children.
well
anyone with an understanding of tragedy knows that they’re most often self-inflicted. Doesn’t make it any less depressing. I’m not part of the blame culture I guess.
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Isn’t it fascinating how the very traits that made him great – the chip on his shoulder, the constent need for respect and acknowledgement, the rage fueled work ethic, the pathalogical competitiveness – are the very traits that led to his current state. Guys like Shamrock aren’t 9-5ers who can turn it off when the whistle blows.
by John Nash on Oct 4, 2010 12:29 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
It’s a sad story but it doesn’t change the fact that it’s all Ken’s fault. We aren’t talking about Jens Pulver here Ken made and lost fortunes in his career. At a time when most MMA fighters weren’t making squat Ken was making big money at it, he has gyms and he made quite a bit of money off pro wrestling too and now he has nothing because of his own actions. You don’t see Frank Shamrock (who didn’t make a fraction of what Ken did) bitching and moaning about how they still have to fight to pay the bills. I’ll save my sympathy for guys like Jens because those guys deserve it.
by who me on Oct 4, 2010 1:32 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
This is what I was trying (and failing) to say above
There are plenty of former fighters who sold their bodies out for this sport and have been left with very little to show for it. Jens Pulver is an excellent example. Contrast that with Ken Shamrock, who is probably still one of the top-ten lifetime earners in MMA history, and who seems to have just made terrible self-defeating choices at every possible turn. It’s still sad that he thinks he has to go out there and get mauled to pay his legal bills, but it’s tempered somewhat by his lousy and unrepentant behavior.
Tatum: I think he's a good man. I like him. I got nothing against him, but I'm definitely gonna make orphans of his children.
by Dave Strummer on Oct 4, 2010 2:33 PM EDT up reply actions
Ken’s sad like a lot of champion boxers or ball sports stars are sad, they made the big money and blew it. It’s a very different sad than other MMA oldtimers who never made the big money to start with. I’ll save my sympathy for those guys who bled for my entertainment but never got the big money/perks because they did it for their love of the sport not their love of money.
He has both gyms (multiple) and does appearances. Its just that those businesses combined don’t guarantee you much of anything. I mean, how long can he really get tons of appearance money? Ken’s gonna be completely unknown to a generation of fans coming down the pike by only 4-5 years.
by VirtualBalboa on Oct 4, 2010 11:24 AM EDT up reply actions
Shamrock fought in an era where there was no money in this sport. Now that there is, he’s gonna stick around as long as possible to collect it. After all, look around a little – who has retired from the early days of the sport? Compare that to the list of the people still around and fighting.
And those guys that did retire (Rutten, etc) all did it because of injuries. That being said, there was money in the sport back in the day. It’s not the type of money Lesnar’s getting now, but it wasn’t fighting for chump change either. Shamrock did quite well monetarily in Japan, from what I can remember. Ken Shamrock is the cause of most of Ken Shamrock’s problems. I don’t think anyone can really dispute that.
http://www.instrength.com
by Tim Burke on Oct 4, 2010 11:41 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Brock Lesnar probably made more for his fight with Carwin than Ken Shamrock has made in his entire career minus UFC 61. The biggest money he probably made in his career was with the WWF, which is why he went there to begin with.
I think he probably made more money than the majority of us posting here did during his peak, but he probably had a lot more expenses than the rest of us too. Take the gyms – they don’t operate for free. They don’t lack startup costs. Has he recouped the cost of operating the Lions Den locations he has? Did he have a co-investor? Who managed his money back in the 1990s? Were they honest? Did they steal some and run off? None of us know. What I do know is this – everyone that was a major fighter in that era who can fight either does or pro wrestles or does both aside from Bas Rutten and the Gracies (who can make tons doing seminars).
by VirtualBalboa on Oct 4, 2010 11:51 AM EDT up reply actions
That’s not a very good argument – he made more than Ken did in his entire career, except for that one fight where he got a shitload of cash. Ken made lots of money in MMA, even if it was from one fight. It’s pretty undeniable.
Guy Mezger never did pro wrestling from what I can remember. Igor Vovchanchyn. Heath Herring. Mario Sperry, lots of the Brazilians. They all found other outlets to make money in. Ken Shamrock easily could have done the same thing, and did with pro wrestling for a while.
http://www.instrength.com
I don’t even know if Shamrock made a percentage on UFC 61. Its very possible Lesnar made more than Shamrock in one fight vs. a career including that fight. Did Ken make a couple million dollars fighting in MMA over a career? Probably. How much of that went to training staff? Managers? Back to promoters? How much was spent on trying to keep the Lion’s Den running in the late 1990s?
Guy Mezger retired because he had a stroke. Luckily Ken Shamrock gifted him the Lion’s Den in Texas when he decided to go to the WWE. More important than that was Guy collecting paychecks from a certain NBA owner. Mario Sperry has the option of the BJJ seminar world. Heath Herring is a struggling actor who tried to sit out his UFC contract. Vovchanchin has a restaurant business in Russia but its not like anyone is regularly checking in to see how he’s doing with that. Comparing that list to the vast assortment of guys still stuck fighting/wrestling (Severn, Pat Smith, Goodridge, Funaki, Yanagisawa, Takahashi, Coleman, Ken Shamrock, etc etc etc), things look a lot uglier.
by VirtualBalboa on Oct 4, 2010 12:23 PM EDT up reply actions
How much did Ken blow on stupid shit? How well did he manage his money? Why wasn’t he smarter about his business decisions?
Questions can be raised on both sides of that fence.
As for fighters, you stated that none of the old guard didn’t supplement their income with pro wrestling. None of the guys I stated did, and are still making a living. You’re moving your goalposts a bit, but I was never really arguing your point. I just think you’re making too many excuses for Ken. He made a lot of money. There’s no need for him to be getting in the cage at 45, even if a lot of things didn’t go his way.
http://www.instrength.com
Quoted from my above post for emphasis so that you don’t continue to mischaracterize what I say.
just think you’re making too many excuses for Ken. He made a lot of money. There’s no need for him to be getting in the cage at 45, even if a lot of things didn’t go his way.[/quote]Dana White often talks about a “fighter’s mentality” – Some guys who fight don’t have it or lose it. Bob Sapp is a good example. Most great fighters are made of something other than freakshow, and Ken’s probably one of them. Likely he’s a very competitive fighter who put his whole being into the sport. Most of the guys listed here are and were of that breed. Asking someone like that to think about 20 years from now, especially for guys who were competing in the infancy of the sport and making but a pittance compared to the fighters of today may seem logical to you but is ineffective and nieve. The reason these guys are all broke and still fighting is the same reason just about every boxer in existence ends up broke and fighting until they’re forced to stop.
by VirtualBalboa on Oct 4, 2010 12:47 PM EDT up reply actions
Ahh, I thought you said “who COULD fight”, as in were good fighters back in the day. My bad for the miscommunication.
http://www.instrength.com
And to be really clear, it should be noted that Bas Rutten did dabble in pro wrestling. ;)
Seriously though, its like this. You and I have retirement accounts probably at real jobs where we recieve a real wage or salary. If you believed that in 24 months, you would be making ten times what you do now, would you still be investing 5% in a 401K? That’s what contending fighters (both those who make it and those who don’t) think all the time, right up until they become shopworn and start thinking about getting their last payday or two or three.
by VirtualBalboa on Oct 4, 2010 12:59 PM EDT up reply actions
Well, I’m Canadian and don’t have a 401k, but I understand what your point is. My point is that fiscal responsibility isn’t thrown out the window because you’re a fighter.
http://www.instrength.com
Its easy for us to say things like that, but ultimately you’re hoping for something that is unrealistic and goes against the mentalities of these guys. Add in these fighters having made amounts equivalent to present day gatekeepers and it only looks worse the old guys.
by VirtualBalboa on Oct 4, 2010 1:09 PM EDT up reply actions
If I made ten times what I do now I still wouldn’t be making a small fraction of what Ken Shamrock has made and blown over the years(he made millions of dollars in his career). Of course if I was a athlete I would also be very cognizant of the fact that the earning window is very small. Being financially stupid is no excuse for any of us at any earning level but blowing millions is really sad.
Again, this is easy to say and do when you are not the athlete. I’m just telling you what the mentality is and how it repeats itself frequently. You don’t have to like it. It simply is. You want it to be different? You might as well be arguing that you don’t want the US government to spend a quarter of its budget on defense. You won’t get anywhere.
by VirtualBalboa on Oct 4, 2010 10:20 PM EDT up reply actions
What the hell does being an athlete have to do with anything in terms of not being a financial dumb ass? It’s the same for everyone all around, if you don’t manage your money properly then you end up without money in the end, rich or poor, athlete or couch potato, when it comes to actually living in your means and saving for your future the best you can it’s all the same.
I don’t care what their mentality is there are plenty of examples that have been made for even the dimmest of athletes to see the need to not be a complete moron with their money when they actually have it. If you are trying to make some kind of excuse for athletes who blow all their money due to their ’mentality" well then that is a pathetic excuse to make for them. No one cares if I like it or not, I am just pointing out that what is their fault is their fault and I have no sympathy for guys who had it all and lost it due to being knuckleheads.
I explained the mentality. I can give you a thousand examples of that mentality playing out repeatedly in the context of MMA or boxing. I’m not asking for you to apologize or think differently about Ken Shamrock. I’m just telling you what it is and that if you’re a fan of MMA, you’re gonna see it forever. What you think and your mentality is from the outside is irrelevant to what these guys actually think and how they act.
by VirtualBalboa on Oct 5, 2010 9:41 AM EDT up reply actions
The “mentality” does keep playing out which means that there is plenty of examples for these guys as to what not to do. That makes it even worse when one of them blows it now, it’s not like they can claim ignorance that their money won’t last forever.
Of course they can’t. But you’re talking about this being part of a fighter’s psychological makeup. How many fighters that are successful alternately believe they are vulnerable? Truth is that its not many. No one is going to get anywhere in this business without being single minded, and that double edged sword makes it so that a lot of these guys have no fall back and end up broke.
Like I said, I’m not asking you to feel sorry for Ken. This is what it is. You don’t want to see fighters become broken down shells? Stop watching MMA.
by VirtualBalboa on Oct 5, 2010 12:35 PM EDT up reply actions
Ken is basically now a scary ghost story you tell to up and coming MMA fighters.
The guy keeps doing it to himself, which sucks, and it is why I have no sympathy for him since he is in this place mostly due to his own fault, but that doesn’t make it any less sad. Personally, I don’t enjoy seeing these MMA legends get beat on like punching bags. If promotions want to continue to use Ken and squeeze every last drop of the Shamrock name, then that’s their prerogative, but there’s no honor in any of this. It’s almost like he wants to die in the cage.
Give him Keith Jardine
Good rebound fight for Keith, good name for Ken to make a buck while still having a losing streak to justify the matchup. Also like the Kimbo suggestion if it could still happen.
Anyone think Frank would come out of retirement for a fight vs. Ken? That could be the last big psycheque for either guy.
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by hobbie on Oct 4, 2010 12:43 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
In a perfect world, the athletic commission in the next state Ken tries to fight in will take a look at his recent fights and unimpressive multi-year skid and refuse him a license.
"If I wanted to spend a half hour between two hairy legs I'd go to your mother's house." -Don Frye
by mburtoni on Oct 4, 2010 6:42 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
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