What is "good footwork"?
by JaeeJaee on Oct 25, 2010 2:07 PM EDT
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After debating with a few of you pertaining to footwork, I have decided to put a little of what I know up.
Disclaimer after the jump. Enter at your own peril!!!!
Disclosure: I do not claim to be the next Greg Jackson, Kru Mark Dellagrotte, Kru Phil Nurse or world class trainer. I also do not claim to be the next Buakaw, Rambaa Somdet or Floyd Mayweather. I am however an aspiring amateur fighter living in the D.C. Metro area (alexandria) that has dabbled in a little of this and a little of that over the past three years. I do consider myself a Judoka (not a very good one, yet), A Jiu Jitsu player (just starting to show any promise there) and a Nak Muay (still just a baby really). I started at Capital BJJ with Jeremy Lafreniere, moved to One Spirit with Pedro Sauer(BJJ) and Maurice Allan(Judo), cross-trained at Gold Medal Grappling under Kris Mccray and have been to a few other places here and there. I have taught a class or two. I have competed in my fair share of Judo and BJJ competitions. I also had my first amateur MMA match (second one is November 20th), and am looking to do my first Muay Thai match here very soon.
The whole point of this statement is that I am not the final authority on these matters. I do know a little and I may miss big points or even have flawed concepts. If you have anything to add, please don't hesitate. My aim here is to educate our community. I know the reason we all argue so much is because we as a whole are passionate about our MMA. So if you are still with me after this, please continue to read.
Firstly there are some things that need to be clearly defined. I'll call on my old buddy Webster initially, then explain the terms as they are used in boxing (I am not Brent when it comes to boxing, just a jersey boy who grew up watching an occasional match with his dad).
Movement - (1)the act or purpose of moving; espescially: change of place or position or posture (2) a particular instance or manner of moving.
Both of these apply. Movement in boxing (as it is in life)is most normally used to mean manuvering. It can also refer to head movement, hand movements, your hips and knee's or all these things combined. In order to be effective all these area's should work together.
Footwork - the management of the feet (as in boxing); also : the work done with them.
No need to elaborate further on that, it's pretty straight forward.
Here is a concept many MMA aficionados seem to miss: Many elements in fighting are related but not the same (like movement and footwork). It is possible to be bad at one but effective at the other.
It is actually possible to have great footwork and poor movement. Say a guy gets caught in shootouts and doesn't move or he is Frankenstein from the waist up, he chooses bad angles, etc. These can all result in a guy looking as though he has poor footwork when in fact his footwork is sound.
Now in our sport the more common trend I am seeing is horrible footwork (I'll elaborate on that later) with effective movement. "How can that be possible?" you are thinking (or something along those lines, I imagine). Well allow me to explain.
THE ? COMMANDMENTS OF FOOTWORK
Keep in mind MMA is a dynamic sport. Like anything in life, there can be single exceptions to these rules. Also there are other kinds of footwork. But here I will elaborate on "triangle" footwork as this is pretty much the same for most fighters, the only thing you really change is your stance, however wrestling and some TMA's may use different footwork. What's written below will still apply to 99% of MMA fighters.
THOU SHALT NOT CROSS THY FEET
The rule is as it sounds. Many times (especially when retreating or moving laterally) fighters will cross their feet. The problem with this is it throws you off balance. In boxing it makes you susceptible to the knockdown from punches. In MMA you also have to kick to worry about. If losing your balance isn't bad enough, there's that pesky habit you have of trying to regain your balance once it's broken. For a fighter, this means dropping their hands. When that happens... BOOM GOES THE DYNAMITE. Many people are knocked out when moving out of strikes. If you are retreating and off balance the likelihood of eating a shot on the button increases greatly.
THE HEEL-TOE
This one is simple enough. When you step forward you pick up your heel first, then you pick up your toes.
YOU MAY KNOW HOW TO HEEL-TOE, BUT CAN YOU TOE-HEEL
(This is a follow up to the last one, it's the second portion of the movement, but it is possible to do one right and the other wrong). So you have stepped forward using the proper "heel first toe second" method. Now as your foot comes down your toes should hit the ground first followed by your heel. Not too hard so far right?
FOLLOW THE LEADER
The rule of thumb is whichever direction you are moving in, the foot that is closest to it is the first to go. So if I am in an orthodox stance (right handed, meaning my left hand and leg are closest to my opponent) and I want to step to my right, my right foot moves first. If I want to step back... once again my right foot moves first (since it's my rear foot). Forward or to my left are both left foot first movements. Now there is one amendment to this rule. There are some who will teach a half step with the right initially and a full step with the left for when you are stepping left. I find both methods have their uses.
CHOPPED AND SCREWED
A common mistake that is also made is constantly taking big steps. It takes work and repetition, but if done right your feet should move no more than a few inches at the most. Now, your coach may encourage your to really step in to attack occasionally and that's fine as long as you don't step too deep. Personally I try to never step further than 3 inches.
CAN'T TOUCH THIS
One area that you will commonly see fighters abandon solid footwork in is when they are out of striking range. For Many I think this is just a bad habit from how they train (your coach has you hitting the pads in perfect form but as soon as he steps off you get out of your stance). For some it is intentional, they feel they can relax. Once again, I personally am not a fan of this. Dropping your hands out of range is one thing, but your balance being compromised doesn't bode well if your opponent surprises you and lunges at you like a jealous crush who just saw you kiss his dream girl.
STEP, SHUFFLE. STEP, SHUFFLE. STEP, SHUFFLE.
In both boxing and Muay Thai (not that watered down kickboxing that is taught in america and passed off as Muay Thai but actual Muay Thai) the recommended method of walking is a push step. Your lead foot (in whatever direction you are moving in) takes it's first step while your rear foot stays more or less planted. You then slide your rear foot into place. The goal is to minimize the time your feet leave the ground in order to maximize both the power you can generate and maintain maximum balance. if a fighter is skipping to my lou, they are definitely not displaying sound footwork. An occasional skip is acceptable, but too much is just begging to be countered.
Hopefully you were able to gain something from the above post. If this goes over well I may actually put full effort into another fan post in the future, complete with video's and the whole shebang. At this point my impatience has grown immensely. So rather than go on a gif hunt and work it to perfection, I will do a quick proof read (emphasis on quick) and post this now. Adding the gifs as I find them later. Half-assing for the win!
Remember Kiddies, play nice!
The FanPosts are solely the subjective opinions of Bloody Elbow readers and do not necessarily reflect the views of Bloody Elbow editors or staff.
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Maybe you can verify how amazing Schaub’s footwork looked on Saturday. His ability to back up quickly, circle out and strike was awesome.
When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift
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by Derek Suboticki on Oct 25, 2010 2:13 PM EDT reply actions
You pretty much called it. His footwork was fundamentally sound. He maintained his balance, never crossed his feet. I actually think the biggest key to his victory was his footwork. With it he never let Gonzaga find his range and was always in a position to strike. he also did a great job of slipping punches, no greatly exaggerated movements. Just enough to be out of harms way and return fire.
"I’m anti-stalling, not anti-wrestling." - lowellthehammer
Gonzaga needed to use this type of footwork in the fight
"I say after someone throws a punch isn't everything else the rest of the night a counter?.......Kinda?"
Mike Goldberg
UnintelligentDefense.blogspot.com
by Earl Montclair on Oct 25, 2010 7:44 PM EDT up reply actions 7 recs
Another footwork note.
Circling in the proper direction is key. In general, you want to circle away from your opponent’s power hand to make it harder for them to land. Circling in the wrong direction gets you Bisping’d.
by Verklemptomaniac on Oct 25, 2010 3:08 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
I was going to include that
but I figured that is more key to movement and that could be a separate post all its own. I was thinking stances and movement could be combined.
One thing to note with movement (as a believe you alluded to when you stated “in general”) is it is okay to circle toward the power hand for the sake of mixing it up. It’s when you do it constantly that it becomes an issue. That said I seldom circle toward the power hand.
"I’m anti-stalling, not anti-wrestling." - lowellthehammer
If you've read it and have not rec'd it, you're an ass.
the Rooster! the Rider! a Man on the Rooster! the Rider of the Apocalypse!
Or, like people who've boxed/kickboxed
you learned this stuff almost ten years ago.
I mean no disrespect, but they’re basic concepts and also incomplete.
For example, the tiny steps should can be a quick shuffling motion. Meaning that you can cover a huge distance safely by shuffling quickly and keeping the feet far apart. I just takes a well trained fighter to do it correctly.
Another thing is the weight distribution is so different for each combat sport. In Karate and boxing, you need about equal weight on both feet. In MMA, like Muay Thai, you have to step lightly with your lead leg, so the weight is distribution 40/60 or even 30/70 on the rear leg.
Pivoting is one the most important aspects of footwork. They allow you to completely evade an attack and counter cleanly with one of your own. Guys like Machida pivot on their rear leg at times to completely confuse and surprise his opponent. Anderson uses basic boxing pivots, usually an inside pivot, but he also does much more advanced techniques like the forward sidestep. He steps forward and the left to evade, then pivots inside to counter with the left. He used this technique on Chris Leben.
MMA also requires a much more staggered stance. Meaning that the feet need to be much farther apart to square the hips in order properly defend a takedown or clinch. This dramatically changes the nature of a fighters footwork. You can’t put your feet on that imaginary line, so you really have to pay attention to how far apart they are and which direction your hips are pointing.
When you circle away from a fighter with the opposite stance, you have to keep your lead leg outside of theirs.
Good post for beginners or fans to learn a little. Sorry if I seemed critical.
by Scandinavian Heat on Oct 26, 2010 5:22 PM EDT up reply actions
In MMA, like Muay Thai, you have to step lightly with your lead leg, so the weight is distribution 40/60 or even 30/70 on the rear leg.
This is wrong. That much weight on your back leg will negatively impact your ability to sprawl in a huge way.
Obviously, each stance has its advantages and disadvantages as well.
MMA should be 50/50 according to Machida, but you can’t plant your lead leg while punching or stepping, because someone will blow out your knee with a low kick.
Watch Shogun fight, does he distribute his weight evenly? No, he lightly bounces his lead leg while he steps forward. Even Junior Dos Santos steps lightly on his front foot. An example being when he countered Gonzaga’s leg kick with a left hook. He did it with his left foot off the ground.
That’s why MMA footwork and stances are so different across the sport. Some fighters even change stances during fights to accomplish a certain goal. Its also the reason a great striker can be out struck by a wrestler, he has to change his normal stance to counter the takedown.
by Scandinavian Heat on Oct 26, 2010 6:48 PM EDT up reply actions
I’d point out that Shogun’s stance might be part of the reason he struggles with good wrestlers. And JDS’s foot was off the ground because he was preparing to check the leg kick that Gonzaga faked, not because it’s his normal stance.
I think it’s fine to go into a more traditional Thai stance with the front foot light situationally, but using it as your default is going to hurt your ability to get your hips back and sprawl. Not many fighters do it because of that, Shogun’s the only one I can think of. Even Wanderlei keeps his front foot more planted, though he still has wrestling troubles.
Did you read what I wrote below?
My point is that a good fighter has to be able to adjust his stance and footwork to fit the situation. No TMA stance is perfect for MMA, so a fighter needs to tweak their specific sport’s stance to encompass grappling and kicks.
Rashads Evans’ footwork seems wrong, but its because its in between a boxing and wrestling stance and is bouncing back and forth. What loses in style points he gains in unpredictability.
Of course Shogun’s Muay Thai stance hurts his wrestling. But he’s beaten Kevin Randleman, Rampage Jackson, Ricardo Arona and has never lost a decision.
And duh, JDS was reacting to a low kick, that’s what I wrote. If his leg was planted he wouldn’t have been able to move it quickly at all. He was treading lightly on that lead foot leading up to that punch as well.
You cannot plant your lead leg often at all. Its pretty puch the cardinal sin of MMA striking. Someone will cripple you.
by Scandinavian Heat on Oct 26, 2010 8:10 PM EDT up reply actions
My point is that a good fighter has to be able to adjust his stance and footwork to fit the situation. No TMA stance is perfect for MMA, so a fighter needs to tweak their specific sport’s stance to encompass grappling and kicks.
I was responding to your original point, which was:
In MMA, like Muay Thai, you have to step lightly with your lead leg, so the weight is distribution 40/60 or even 30/70 on the rear leg.
A generalization like that simply isn’t true. Likewise:
You cannot plant your lead leg often at all. Its pretty puch the cardinal sin of MMA striking. Someone will cripple you.
What do you mean by “planting?” If you’re saying 50-50 weight distribution or heel down on the front leg, I disagree. Most fighters fight with their front heel down. Even JDS, watch the Roy Nelson fight. I don’t care what the potential is for getting your “knee blown out,” it just doesn’t happen the way you describe it. Not the way MMA is right now. The cardinal sin IMO is dropping your hands while punching, btw.
Of course Shogun’s Muay Thai stance hurts his wrestling. But he’s beaten Kevin Randleman, Rampage Jackson, Ricardo Arona and has never lost a decision.
So? I don’t care about Shogun as a fighter. I’m not arguing he can’t beat wrestlers. He has amazing sweeps and BJJ off his back, good for him. I’m arguing about his stance and what it does to his ability to sprawl. Which is, hurt.
And duh, JDS was reacting to a low kick, that’s what I wrote. If his leg was planted he wouldn’t have been able to move it quickly at all. He was treading lightly on that lead foot leading up to that punch as well.
You were making a generalization that he steps lightly with his front foot and no, he doesn’t. I can’t find any other videos of him that are still up, so I’ll have to point to the Roy Nelson fight above. He keeps his heel on the ground more often than not, and generalizing that he usually or often steps lightly based on one specific defensive action is inaccurate. Shogun is an aberration because he’s one of the few fighters to use a stance where his front heel is pretty much always off the ground.
You have absolutely no clue what you are talking about.
Its all situational.
No fighter should fight on their heels. Athletes are trained to move on the balls of their feet. Just because you see both feet on the ground doesn’t mean the lead one is planted firmly.
Does Roy Nelson throw leg kicks?
Dropping your hands while you punch just shows you either suck at striking or are just lazy/tired.
I point out one of the best fighters alive an example and you say ‘so’.
That proves you’re an idiot who doesn’t actually train or fight.
I don’t know why I’m arguing with you. You obviously don’t truthfully know anything about actually fighting, you rec’d the dude for describing a fucking pivot. You sound like the guy who learned how to fight from a TKD magazine.
No matter how much I repeat it you just don’t get. MMA is too diverse for one stance to work every fight. Every fighter should do what works best for them at that time.
by Scandinavian Heat on Oct 26, 2010 9:00 PM EDT up reply actions
Also
This:
In MMA, like Muay Thai, you have to step lightly with your lead leg, so the weight is distribution 40/60 or even 30/70 on the rear leg.
Is a sweeping generalization. Which contradicts with this:
Its all situational.
Fine. It’s situational. Don’t tell me you “have” to keep more weight on the back foot in MMA then.
No fighter should fight on their heels. Athletes are trained to move on the balls of their feet. Just because you see both feet on the ground doesn’t mean the lead one is planted firmly.
Again, what do you mean by “plant?” In the sense that you have 80% or more weight on one foot, of course. You can’t move then. You CAN throw a punch from that kind of plant, and you’re not always at risk for a leg kick if your timing and setup are right. You’re contrasting “stepping lightly” and having a 60-40 ratio on the back foot to planting the front foot, so I’m forced to assume a more even ratio or having the heel on the ground counts as “planting” to you. And just because no fighter should fight on their heels doesn’t mean it doesn’t happen. More saliently, if fighting on your heels were punished as brutally as you portray, it wouldn’t happen. But it does. See: Leben, Chris; Carwin, Shane; Silva, Anderson; Jackson, Rampage. All dangerous strikers.
But oh! All of them have been vulnerable to leg kicks in the past (except maybe Silva)! Well gosh, I wonder how they continue fighting at a high level when their knee gets blown out every time they put their front heel down? Could it be you’re wildly overstating the risks of using a more even weight ratio, vis a vis the power of leg kicks, and understating the wrestling disadvantage a back-heavy stance puts you at?
Does Roy Nelson throw leg kicks?
Which actually fits my point quite well. How many fighters in MMA are the devastating leg kick specialists who will punish someone for “planting” their front foot? Fewer than you seem to assume. We’re talking about the reality of MMA here, not what would happen if Remy were in the UFC (he’d get taken down and punched to death, btw).
Dropping your hands while you punch just shows you either suck at striking or are just lazy/tired.
Now this is bad technique…unfortunately it’s widespread in MMA. Evidence.
I point out one of the best fighters alive an example and you say ‘so’.
Because we are NOT TALKING ABOUT SHOGUN, THE FIGHTER. We are talking about HIS FUCKING STANCE. It helps his ability to check leg kicks. It hurts his ability to sprawl. This lends no evidence to fighters “having” to keep more weight on the back foot.
I don’t know why I’m arguing with you. You obviously don’t truthfully know anything about actually fighting, you rec’d the dude for describing a fucking pivot. You sound like the guy who learned how to fight from a TKD magazine.
Dim mak. Dim mak, bro.
I rec’ed him for adding to the conversation in an intelligent way. Who cares if it’s basic? Your recs are too precious to give to anything less than a masterclass on advanced striking technique?
I don't feel I'm overstating the power of leg kicks at all.
Look what legs kicks have done to good speedy fighters like Urijah or Huerta. Look what they did to Rampage. Or Manhoef/Lawler. Even Machida was limping in the final rounds of his first fight with Rua. Gonzaga has devastating low kicks, JDS knew that. More and more fighters are using the leg kick well. We’ve even seen people using push kicks to push in extended lead legs. Like when Uscola kicked in McKray’s knee.
Case in point, here’s Rhadi Ferguson’s first fight.
By on their heels I mean flat footed. Shane Carwin is a terrible puncher who has power. Anderson does not fight flat footed, he may occasionally to clown someone. Leben’s striking isn’t that good. He’s wild puncher. Rampage got out struck by Rashad, who was bouncing during each exchange, because he couldn’t move well enough. He’s a plodder and he’s paid for it.
In conclusion, I agree. Not every fighter is a leg destroying machine. But there are more and more guys becoming that. Any professional fighter should have their own individualized stance that allows him to use his strengths and negate his opponent’s. If he can kick well you better adjust. A boxer with a bad knee is just a slow dude with gloves on.
by Scandinavian Heat on Oct 26, 2010 10:14 PM EDT up reply actions
Ok, I’m with you for the most part. Definitely agree with the end.
I’d almost call clowning Anderson’s stand up style though…he drops his hands, puts his front heel down and leans forward, daring you to hit him. Then he Griffins you.
Sorry for being a bitch earlier
I just love fighting and especially striking so much. Sports its pretty much all I know. I took it as if you were calling me a liar or an idiot. I apologize.
by Scandinavian Heat on Oct 26, 2010 10:54 PM EDT up reply actions
No prob
In fairness, I’m an idiot a fair amount of the time.
by Scandinavian Heat on Oct 27, 2010 1:20 AM EDT up reply actions
How many fighters bounce on their toes?
I wonder why that is…
by Scandinavian Heat on Oct 26, 2010 9:05 PM EDT up reply actions
See, the thing is...
Lots of fighters do that at range to “shake out,” but how many stay on their toes once they engage? Ross Mason vs Marius Zaromskis is one of the few fights you’ll see where both fighters stay on the balls of their feet the entire fight, even while moving within punching range. It looks markedly different than most MMA because it IS.
Bouncing on your toes at range is like what Goldberg considers to be “good head movement.” Meaning random bobbing and weaving well outside of punching range.
Goldberg is an idiot :)
Being on your toes allows you to change direction, cover distance and shift momentum much easier. It also allows you to absorb blows a little better. That’s why any serious fighter should be conditioned enough to bounce for 15 minutes.
by Scandinavian Heat on Oct 26, 2010 10:15 PM EDT up reply actions
Goldberg is an idiot :)
Yes.
Being on your toes allows you to change direction, cover distance and shift momentum much easier. It also allows you to absorb blows a little better. That’s why any serious fighter should be conditioned enough to bounce for 15 minutes.
See, I agree with you on the “should.” And I’d go further, it may be that most fighters are conditioned to do it, but they don’t seem to be in that habit during the actual fight.
You cannot plant your lead leg often at all. Its pretty puch the cardinal sin of MMA striking. Someone will cripple you.
patbarrybreaksdanevansonsleg.gif
http://fightdrinker.blogspot.com
by some schmuck in texas on Oct 27, 2010 11:16 AM EDT up reply actions
Basically
MMA is so vast that a fighter should be comfortable in a couple stances and also be able to adjust them to the situation.
by Scandinavian Heat on Oct 26, 2010 6:53 PM EDT up reply actions
Good post for beginners or fans to learn a little
This was the entire point of the post. Also, the post was about footwork, not movement or stances. Which, while related to footwork, are not what I was trying to break down. Each of those areas are so broad that it would take more time than I have or am currently willing to spend on this post. I just thought to address the key things you look for when you look at a fighters footwork to see if it’s fundamentally sound or fundamentally flawed.
I have noticed a recent trend where a fleet footed or quick fighter is said to have “good or great footwork” when in fact they have horrible footwork (Rashad Evans, Frankie Edgar, to name a few).
The quick shuffling you mentioned is misleading. Ideally you would shuffle quickly, but it’s not entirely necessary for solid fundamental footwork. Especially since situation dictates. as you yourself have mentioned. Either way, the point of that section was to look for people who jump into their strikes. While it can be an acceptable tactic, it should be something you seldom do.
I appreciate the criticism, but please realize, this post was aimed at people who may have never set foot in a gym, let alone trained. As fans, they have the right to be educated on their sport in order to help it grow. Every fan who gains knowledge becomes a better ambassador for our sport. When you talk down as you have, it pushes people away. I would never talk down to anyone who takes my classes.
The entire tone of this post here is entirely too harsh for a topic that should be drama free. Nothing you have said is necessarily wrong, so I get the sense this topic in general got you excited and you didn’t take the time to organize your thoughts. I see also that after this post (save for a few jabs at those who may be less knowledgeable than yourself), you left the hubris out of your post. I would much rather have you contributing calmly than sparking arguments.
Now, if you can take my criticism without getting too offended, let’s take our shared knowledge and see how we can make this post better!
Do you disagree with any of the fundamentals above? (keep in mind, we are looking for visual cue’s that will show new or less knowledgable fans whether or not what they are looking at is solid).
And is there anything you would like to add. Thanks.
"I’m anti-stalling, not anti-wrestling." - lowellthehammer
I sincerely apologize
You’re right. I could have been a lot less negative and I completely missed the point of your post. I tend to look way too far into things. After reading about your training and knowledge in MA, I was kinda expecting to read some new techniques or some slick tips you picked up along the way. Then I read I guy say you’re an ass for not rec’ing it. So yeah, I kinda(definitely) got uppity about my knowledge. That’s a terrible way to teach and share. I would never do that to my clients.
No, I don’t disagree with your principles at all. They definitely provide a solid foundation to attack or evade. I also agree that the topic is so broad it would be very difficult to make one all-inclusive post to explain it all.
You hit the nail on the head, this topic doe excite me a lot. I drill footwork basically everyday, cause its the most important/under-trained aspect of striking IMO. I should have taken more time to carefully explain some supporting principles to add. Especially when describing the relationship between footwork, stance and weight distribution. And, no. I can’t think of any more simple concepts you could teach a beginner, so you must’ve done a really good job. I apologize and respect your effort to inform fans.
by Scandinavian Heat on Oct 27, 2010 4:30 PM EDT up reply actions
I should tell you
In high school, they called me ‘twinkle toes’ cause I was always shuffling and bouncing on my balls of my feet.
by Scandinavian Heat on Oct 27, 2010 5:30 PM EDT up reply actions
Thank you. I could see from your topics that you feel much like I do (I think footwork is everything and like you said it is by far the most overlooked aspect of training). I get so tried of hearing fans say this person or that person has great footwork just because they move their feet quickly or bounce around a ton.
"I’m anti-stalling, not anti-wrestling." - lowellthehammer
You can practically stand still if your footwork is good enough. I’m sure you know, its all about distance and angles. The guy with the best footwork can usually dictate the range and angle of the exchange. Some guys can sit in the pocket and never get touched; because its his pocket and not the opponent’s. He’s just making you believe he’s in range. That’s what Silva has really mastered.
Dominick Cruz has incredible speed and light feet, but absolutely no discipline. He turned what would be outstanding footwork into a wild mess that almost cost him his title.
by Scandinavian Heat on Oct 27, 2010 7:48 PM EDT up reply actions
The saying goes
Smart feet make sharp hands.(I think)
by Scandinavian Heat on Oct 27, 2010 8:05 PM EDT up reply actions
one thing I could say
I think its important that a beginner learns shuffle quickly. It really gets you out of bad situations and puts your opponent into one.
High level MMA striking is getting closer and closer to a point-fighting style. It seems like every event we see a new fighter who gets in, gets out and doesn’t get hit. Edgar, Florian, Cruz(when he’s being smart), Melvin Guillard, the Master Machida, even Rashad Evans dabbles in it.
I wouldn’t be surprised to see GSP play the outside striking game with Koscheck.
by Scandinavian Heat on Oct 27, 2010 4:44 PM EDT up reply actions
I absolutely agree
that it’s a great habit to get into. I think learning every nuance of the game, from pivoting, slipping, how and when to lean is essential. It’s just hard to get the average person reading these post to imagine these concepts without at least having picture examples.
I definitely think you have plenty to add, and I’m sure there are some key facts that stick out in your mind you could break out.
"I’m anti-stalling, not anti-wrestling." - lowellthehammer
Posture
Its really important to keep your head and torso over your hips at all times. You’ll see a lot of guys who will lean forward, backward or to whatever side they’re stepping, especially when they’re tired. Not only does it throw you off balance making it hard to strike, it also makes you much easier to hit because you to reset before you can react properly. If you lean backwards while getting punched, you’re probably going to eat the mat, followed by some leather.
Proper posture all helps ensure good technique. By keeping your center of gravity, you don’t have to overcompensate for balance by altering/omitting technique. Its really helps reduce wild variation in your technique. Proper posture reduces fatigue and greatly reduces the risk of injury.
You’re right. It is extremely difficult to try to write these concepts down in an understandable way, without taking a year.
by Scandinavian Heat on Oct 27, 2010 8:01 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeah, but many many “hardcore” MMA fans didn’t box/kickbox and don’t know what they’re watching, that’s why we should applaud when someone commmits their time to educate folks.
the Rooster! the Rider! a Man on the Rooster! the Rider of the Apocalypse!
by dancingChicken on Oct 27, 2010 11:43 AM EDT up reply actions
Thank you
The amount of detail he’s asking for is unreasonable for a post such as this. Anything in life has to be taught in levels, starting with the fundamentals. Fundamentals remain constant regardless of experience. All fans need to understand are the fundamentals. Anything else can be updated in installments.
"I’m anti-stalling, not anti-wrestling." - lowellthehammer
Very true
You have to create a solid foundation, then build on top of that.
by Scandinavian Heat on Oct 27, 2010 5:31 PM EDT up reply actions
Including the already mentioned bit about circling away from an opponent's power hand
and the set up for throwing hooks, this is definitely a “Things that frustrate dutchbaby” article. Good stuff.
small steps?
Diego Sanchez, baby! Even at a full run, he seems to be scurrying moving his legs from the knee down only.
But my pick for best footwork in mma is still Machida. It was basically what got him an undefeated record, and Rua’s recognition of this, and strategy to stop it is what made HIM champion.
http://fightdrinker.blogspot.com
by some schmuck in texas on Oct 25, 2010 7:14 PM EDT reply actions
He has great footwork.
But much of his footwork is from the TMA category, so some things that aren’t allowed in western boxing styled footwork, he does. He is an exception though, as he has shown his footwork is wellrounded, he can do both TMA stuff and western stuff. But if you are going to mention Machida, it’s only fair to mention Anderson. His showdown with Forrest is a prime example of great footwork vs nonexistent footwork. I have long said that would be Forrest undoing. I just never imagined it would be exploited in such a devastating way!
"I’m anti-stalling, not anti-wrestling." - lowellthehammer
he does cross his feet a lot
mostly in what my shuaichiao teacher called a ‘stealing step’ to spin out of the way of a charging opponent. Back foot moves across the line of the front foot, shifting the center of gravity and turning the body. It’s breaking the rules you described, but has still been incredibly effective for him, at least against less sophisticated opponents (like Ortiz.)
http://fightdrinker.blogspot.com
by some schmuck in texas on Oct 25, 2010 10:00 PM EDT up reply actions
It’s actually less like crossing his feet because he’s pivoting his hips and shoulders to face a new direction. In that way from his opponent’s perspective his feet are crossed, but because his shoulders, hips and feet are all in alignment, he’s on balance. Tricky, that Machida.
well put
I don’t know much about sumo, but I’ll bet that when folks talk about the sumo aspects of machida’s game, this is part of it.
http://fightdrinker.blogspot.com
by some schmuck in texas on Oct 25, 2010 10:10 PM EDT up reply actions
His big problem in footwork was exposed during the first Shogun fight, in that he’s in the habit of only circling to one side. Against Shogun, the wrong one.
Machida can do it all, but for a southpaw like him, circling right is the best thing to do 95% of the time. Its so hard to hit a southpaw with good timing and footwork. Almost impossible to jab them and your right hook/overhand are too far away to really be a threat. You have to depend on your straight right and lead hook.
The reason Shogun was able to catch Machida so early is that he just fought him for 25 minutes 6 months earlier and probably studied tape for close to a year. That, and Shogun is awesome.
by Scandinavian Heat on Oct 26, 2010 5:26 PM EDT up reply actions
Idk about striking footwork
But in wrestling, when taking a good penetration step and shooting a double or something, its always been taught to me, and I teach my wrestlers, “Heel-Toe-Knee.” So when taking our shot, we make a good penetration step with our heel touching the ground, followed by the tow, and then the knee, from there posting up and turning the corner to finish our takedown.
But this seems to be a striking article so idk.
Moisture is the essence of wetness.
Yes.
You are right, and I do that as well for my double. This is talking about striking exclusively. The footwork I use for my judo and wrestling are 100% different. I should add a section in the post that implicitly states that. Thanks.
"I’m anti-stalling, not anti-wrestling." - lowellthehammer
Great explanation of basic footwork. Rec'd.
To add to the conversation, the reason you want to have good footwork and be on balance offensively is to get your hips under your punches. Poor footwork often translates to poor movement offensively because it takes power away from your punches and kicks, and leaves you off balance, leading to the problem you so accurately describe:
If losing your balance isn’t bad enough, there’s that pesky habit you have of trying to regain your balance once it’s broken. For a fighter, this means dropping their hands.
Which is exactly what makes Machida’s shotokan/sumo sweeps so effective even when they don’t knock you down. Thaigo Silva fight is a perfect example.
Another perfect example of poor footwork taking both power and defense away from a figher is Marcus Davis’ fight against Nate Diaz, particularly in the 2nd and 3rd rounds. After the first, Diaz’s reach starts to intimidate him and he starts swinging from range without committing with his feetk. He starts winging his overhands from too far out, which robs him of all power and accuracy, and leaves him struggling to bring his hands back to his head because he’s so off balance.
Depending on what happens in my fight
I may take the video from this one and explain some of the principals behind the judo sweeps I use, if I have to go that route. If I do I plan on watching much tape on machida and using him as an example (along with Dong Hyun Kim).
"I’m anti-stalling, not anti-wrestling." - lowellthehammer
Good example by the way
with diaz. I remember what you are talking about. I’ll have to rewatch the fight to point out exact moments where he deviated from sound footwork. I also need to get some good gif’s of Penn Edgar 2 so I can show that while Frankie utilized better angles and his quickness, Penn actually had better footwork, he just had poor movement.
"I’m anti-stalling, not anti-wrestling." - lowellthehammer
Tai Sabaki
The footwork and movement that Machida uses is collectively known as tai sabaki. It’s common to many Japanese/Okinawan martial arts including Shotokan, Kendo, and Aikido. Generally speaking one of the primary aims of tai sabaki is to avoid the line of attack while simultaneously gaining a favorable attacking position.
Example: Opponent attempts straight linear attack or short range circular attack to your right. In orthodox stance, you can slide your left foot to the left a few inches then rotate your body 90 degrees, pivoting on the left foot. Your opponent’s attack misses while you are in prime position to counterattack.
A lot of these kind of techniques are demonstrated in Machida’s DVD, naturally.
by Flying Gogoplata on Oct 25, 2010 10:24 PM EDT reply actions 2 recs
Not until your mom gets home :P
I spend most if my time reading, training clients or working out myself.
by Scandinavian Heat on Oct 26, 2010 8:41 PM EDT up reply actions
I apologize for raining on the incomplete/obvious info parade.
by Scandinavian Heat on Oct 26, 2010 8:42 PM EDT up reply actions
They are sound techniques too. Unfortunately my forte is western footwork, as even the thai’s are pushing it these days. Machida’s footwork is no joke, hes probably forgotten more than I will ever know! Tomorrow I would like to add your quote to my article if you don’t mind. Well, everyone who has added anything. I would kind of like to make this a comprehensive explanation of footwork.
"I’m anti-stalling, not anti-wrestling." - lowellthehammer
Appreciate the offer...
But I trust that you can whip up a lot more just by googling “tai sabaki” and “kendo footwork.”
If you are going to quote it though, please add “clockwise” before “90 degrees.” Don’t want people rotating the wrong way!
by Flying Gogoplata on Oct 25, 2010 10:34 PM EDT up reply actions
lol, no problem.
Perhaps I can use you as a lead in. I would just like to give credit where it’s due. That gem was all you.
"I’m anti-stalling, not anti-wrestling." - lowellthehammer
Also
Being kinda perfectionist here but the left foot should slide to the left AND forward (i.e. to the Northwest) because the opponent may not step forward enough when he attacks, so you have to close the distance.
by Flying Gogoplata on Oct 25, 2010 10:41 PM EDT up reply actions
I got you.
You definitely want to be comprehensive when explaining these things anyway, as a minor detail can make the change between being good technique or bad technique.
"I’m anti-stalling, not anti-wrestling." - lowellthehammer
It just a fundamental principle
not so much a good or bad technique.
Its all situational, a ‘good’ technique in one situation may be terrible in another.
by Scandinavian Heat on Oct 26, 2010 8:24 PM EDT up reply actions
That's just one specific pivot.
Anderson calls it the forward sidestep to pivot.
The opponent doesn’t always come straight forward. There’s a lot of different pivots and shuffle/pivot combinations, no one pivot is better than another.
by Scandinavian Heat on Oct 26, 2010 8:30 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeah, sure, that wasn’t meant to be the only way, just one way to deal with one specific type of attack.
by Flying Gogoplata on Oct 26, 2010 9:08 PM EDT up reply actions
You can pivot both ways.
Inside and outside. Not clockwise or counter clockwise.
Machida actually pivots off of his rear foot as well.
by Scandinavian Heat on Oct 26, 2010 8:18 PM EDT up reply actions
I hate you :P
me above:
“Pivoting is one the most important aspects of footwork. They allow you to completely evade an attack and counter cleanly with one of your own. Guys like Machida pivot on their rear leg at times to completely confuse and surprise his opponent. Anderson uses basic boxing pivots, usually an inside pivot, but he also does much more advanced techniques like the forward sidestep. He steps forward and the left to evade, then pivots inside to counter with the left. He used this technique on Chris Leben.”
by Scandinavian Heat on Oct 26, 2010 8:20 PM EDT up reply actions
A big part of pivoting is moving the whole body at once. Not dragging the foot or leading with it.
by Scandinavian Heat on Oct 26, 2010 8:22 PM EDT up reply actions
Dunno if this applicable
But most fighters don’t ever pivot their feet to generate power when close up. It’s a huge technique used in boxing to generate power when close up. Ie they use a full kinetic link when punching resulting in a lot of arm punches or rotation only at the hip.
Not a movement based “footwork” but it’s still missed a lot.
Yep
He means driving the lead toe into the mat while you throw the lead hook.
by Scandinavian Heat on Oct 26, 2010 9:04 PM EDT up reply actions
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