UFC 121 Analysis: Marketing Cain Velasquez's Hispanic Heritage
by Luke Thomas on Oct 24, 2010 2:00 PM EDT
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I find it incredible that there was even a shred of a debate about whether the UFC's decision to openly and aggressively market Velasquez's Mexican heritage made business sense. They deserve applause for the move, not hand-wringing and consternation. Josh Gross has more:
Much was made on blogs and fight fan forums about the marketing of UFC 121 and Cain Velasquez to the Mexican audience. The UFC billed him as the first potential Mexican heavyweight to win a major championship in combat sports. Velasquez, born in Salinas, Calif., considers himself American but he also grew up paying respects to his Mexican heritage.
The push by UFC appears to have been a huge success, as the nearly 15,000 people inside the Honda Center, many waving Mexican-flag colored garb, were clearly behind Velasquez.
"I think Cain winning the title and holding the title is a big deal for the Latino market," UFC president Dana White said. "Mexico dominated the lighter weight categories in boxing and I think they will in mixed martial arts eventually, too."The difference between Velasquez and other Hispanic fighters, especially those native to Mexico: wrestling. There will need to be a steep learning curve for many young Hispanic fighters making their way into MMA, unless they're exposed to wrestling at an early age. For now, Velasquez would seem to be the exception. But with a fighter like him to look up to, let there be no doubt that a young crop are already mapping out their careers to the top.
"I feel great being the first Mexican heavyweight champion of the UFC," Velasquez said. "I'm going to keep representing. This belt I dedicate to the Mexican people in the United States and Mexico."
The UFC has attempted to make inroads into Mexico for at least half a decade. Velasquez could be the key to getting that done.
The truth is that Velasquez's Mexican identity is as tenuous as it is real. Neither born in nor native to Mexico, he's nevertheless very legitimately part of the vast diaspora of those in America who identify themselves as having a common identity or ancestry connected to Mexico. But, as Gross ably points out, much of what makes Velasquez the fighter he is today are his wrestling skills he likely could have only received in America. His citizenship is unquestionably American, but his identity is fluid and malleable. The UFC recognized as much.
And who in their right mind can think this is something lamentable? Velasquez is not media savvy. Likely never will be. Marketing him on his personality or scary skill-level is a fool's errand. But his identity - a Mexican-American heavyweight of more than considerable skill in front of a massive opportunity - represents a very unique moment. The UFC needed something of a Trojan Horse to begin meaningfully engaging Lations, in America and Mexico, and Velasquez's title shot was the best available option.
I'm not here to suggest there was nothing about the push to market Velasquez so nakedly nationalistically that wasn't clumsy or awkward. Or maybe even slightly racist. There was something a little unseemly about how obvious the marketing pitch was. But the UFC is just beginning this effort. They are developing best practices. And they didn't naively pick any Mexican to promote to other Latinos. They found one with a special opportunity who could achieve something historic for that audience and combat sports itself. The point is the UFC finally had a real opportunity to connect with a huge market that has heretofore not relaxed it's profound attachment to boxing. So they took it. And we are to believe this is regrettable? To whom?
It's yet to be seen whether or not this push of Velasquez will pay important and large dividends, although anecdotally the signs are positive. And while much is being made of Velasquez as an Atlas carrying every Latino MMA fan's dreams on his shoulders, any real effort to engage the Latino market will have to be far more comprehensive. Just remember this: if you're offended by the notion of the UFC using a fighter's mixed heritage to attract new and potentially lucrative audiences to grow the popularity of and eventually the quality of MMA, you're the one standing in the way of the sport's progress and development.
Of all of the very legitimate reasons to criticize the UFC's business decisions, the idea some would select this move as their whipping post is downright offensive. The UFC is doing more to attract Latinos to MMA than any other MMA organization or entity. They deserve a round of applause, not anachronistic criticisms that are as out of touch as they are unproductive. Don't let perfect be the enemy of the good.
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Maybe I'm nitpicking here
But it’s not really the Latino market, it’s just the Mexican market (which is a big part of the Latino market but not even close to being all of it). Mexico does have the biggest Spanish speaking TV networks in America but they do not represent all of Latin America.
Predominately Mexican right now
But it’s all part of a more comprehensive effort.
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Very much so
The heat between the Mexicans and every other group within the Latino diaspora is immense. As a Texas resident, I hear about it alot, especially between the Mexicans and PRicans. I still remember the uproar when a Puerto Rican JLo was cast to play the Mexican Selena.
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by S.C. Michaelson on Oct 24, 2010 2:14 PM EDT up reply actions
Selena didn’t even speak spanish all that well. She was just like velasquez, born here.
'Ello G'vnor!
I guess what I’m trying to say is that unless the Mexican(real mexicans in mexico) people really adopt velasquez then all of that nonsense will probably be minor. I’m sure latinos are liking the idea of a latin fighter taking the championship.
'Ello G'vnor!
I'm just speaking on the heat between the groups
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by S.C. Michaelson on Oct 24, 2010 2:49 PM EDT up reply actions
Sure
There is a clear difference among every culture and country. But my Colombian girlfriend was incredibly excited to Cain win and not only because he’s a good fighter. They are striking while the iron is hot to get Mexcians, but again, it’s the first real meaningful attempt to attract the Spanish-speaking audience. This is the beginning of real Latino outreach.
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It depends on the fighters
I’m looking at this like the situation in the WEC with Zhang Tie Quan, they need Latino fighters to be successful in order to get more buzz going. Cain winning the HW belt is a very good beginning.
Here's my point
Cain does what he did last night, he’s just as big a star and doesn’t have the stink of the UFC’s polarizing marketing tactic on him. Right now, people are in a post-Lesnar ass whopping glow. Once that fades…..we don’t know. We’ll see. You already see pockets of it. By using race as a marketing tool, you open yourself up to a backlash.
You also open yourself up to a thorough examination by the general population. At first glance, you have an American-born, American-bred kid who grew up in the US, speaks perfect English, went to “our” schools and colleges, etc basically “rejecting” his Americanness to claim Mexico. Now couple that with the current political situation where thousands of illegal Mexicans are sneaking across the border to come into America to become a “tax burden” and you have potential.
Cain plays into the biggest fears of anti-illegal immigration people. They believe that these immigrants will come to America and perform a sort of isolationism within our own country, refusing to assimilate. Here you have a man making good money in our struggling economy and yet he’s “rejecting” his country.
Add into that the “Brown Pride” tattoo. Whatever the “reason” (and we will never know, I don’t think it’s racist, but I don’t buy Cain’s sugar-coated BS reason either), it is a starking image and will (and already has) provided some amount of vitriol among non-Mexicans.
Racial pandering/marketing is a very very sensitive area and one that should be delicately handled. I don’t know if the UFC did that job well. Personally, I say they did not, I felt their push was quite strong. They should’ve opted for the more subtle approach, but we’ll see.
(note, I don’t feel this way about Cain, I’m talking about possible perception)
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by S.C. Michaelson on Oct 24, 2010 2:12 PM EDT reply actions 9 recs
I say all this to say
UFC has basically opened Pandora’s box with this choice in advertising, we’ll see if it works. In my opinion, it was not needed.
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by S.C. Michaelson on Oct 24, 2010 2:16 PM EDT up reply actions
I also don't believe it was needed...
I agree with the main points of your post. My own main criticisms with it is that in addition to not being very accurate in its Mexican champion hype(Ricco Rodriguez and Tito Ortiz anyone?) thus not being ‘historic’ as the main article suggests, the UFC has also been very selective in its attempted appeal to the ‘Latino’ market as I’ve seen some try to defend this as because it’s not geared towards them – it’s being marketed very specifically as MEXICAN, regardless of the fact that Cain was born in the USA.
Don't count Ortiz
Since he was to my knowledge always a LHW.
It's not race, and it's not new.
just to clarify, Mexican is a nationality… not a race.
Marcus Davis brands himself with the Irish nationality despite never even having gone to Ireland before the UFC sent him there.
The UFC has openly been hyping Dan Hardy and Michael Bisping under the “first british champion” banner since they got on the scene.
Getting bent out of shape over a fight promoter lying is like getting upset that a hooker won't kiss you. It betrays a deep lack of understanding of the nature of the profession.
It is race basically
Most of teh general public sees “Hispanic” or “Mexican” as a different race
Marcus Davis is WHITE. The majority of America is WHITE. Cain is not WHITE. There aren’t a bunch of illegal Irish immigrants dominating the political landscape right now.
Why can’t people see the difference?
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by S.C. Michaelson on Oct 24, 2010 2:51 PM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
Yes, Marcus brands himself and people call him out about it.
Hardy and Bisping are English – born and raised and still live there (although I think Hardy does train here).
Big difference between the UFC manufacturing a Mexican champion.
"You should work for 15 minutes to knock your opponent out, submit him, or improve your position to give yourself the best chance of doing either." - Dan Hardy
Man
The US is a country of immigrants, people feel really strongly about their heritage. I come from East Sacramento, which was a big destination for Italian immigrants in the late 1800s. My Great Grandfather was born here, and my Grandmother has lived in Sacramento her whole life. When she finally got to go to Italy in her seventies she cried she was so happy. Any and every chance she gets she tells me about going to her Grandmother’s old town of Lucca and how beautiful it was and how she wants to go back again some day. Fuck you for telling her she’s not Italian.
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Get over yourself, no one is talking about your grandmother
"You should work for 15 minutes to knock your opponent out, submit him, or improve your position to give yourself the best chance of doing either." - Dan Hardy
by Day Man on Oct 24, 2010 3:21 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Not directly, I used my grandmother as an example. And it happened to be true, but I could have pulled it out of my ass and the point would have stood. Marcus Davis is Irish American, Cain is Mexican American.
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This is about the UFC’s marketing practices – hence the distinction between Davis and Velasquez
"You should work for 15 minutes to knock your opponent out, submit him, or improve your position to give yourself the best chance of doing either." - Dan Hardy
Davis was marketed as Irish by the UFC
which is why he fought on all the UK cards…they had a heel they could sell.
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by Matthew Roth on Oct 24, 2010 3:29 PM EDT up reply actions
His nickname and his whole well-being was Irish
They couldn’t help but do such. And it wasn’t anywhere near this extent.
Plus he’s White.
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by S.C. Michaelson on Oct 24, 2010 3:30 PM EDT up reply actions
So are the rest of the people from the British Isles
They are white as hell.
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by Matthew Roth on Oct 24, 2010 3:32 PM EDT up reply actions
And he has that priviledge
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by S.C. Michaelson on Oct 24, 2010 3:33 PM EDT up reply actions
It doesn't always have to be a black/white thing man
It gets tired that you fall back to it.
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by Matthew Roth on Oct 24, 2010 3:34 PM EDT up reply actions
Hes not tip-toeing around the issue – he’s actually speaking the truth instead of pretending that those double standards dont exist
"You should work for 15 minutes to knock your opponent out, submit him, or improve your position to give yourself the best chance of doing either." - Dan Hardy
Cain’s entire family is mexican, his dad has been deported multiple times, Cain is only an american citizen because he was born here. He’s a Mexican. Just like how Nam Pham is Vietnamese. He was born here but both parents are from Vietnam.
If a person wants to identify with what they were raised around that’s fine, I don’t see an issue. My friend was born here but both parents are Israeli, he was raised speaking hebrew in his house. If he wants to identify as Israeli good for him.
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by Matthew Roth on Oct 24, 2010 3:37 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
What does that have to do with S.C. talking about the double standard that exists?
"You should work for 15 minutes to knock your opponent out, submit him, or improve your position to give yourself the best chance of doing either." - Dan Hardy
I don't think he's reading/thinking about what I'm actually saying
He just sees race talk and is like “aahhh, don’t wanna hear it” which kind of proves my other point.
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by S.C. Michaelson on Oct 24, 2010 3:57 PM EDT up reply actions
Are you african american?
NOPE! You’re american! Lol!
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by Matthew Roth on Oct 24, 2010 4:03 PM EDT up reply actions
Uhhhhh, huh?
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by S.C. Michaelson on Oct 24, 2010 3:56 PM EDT up reply actions
Clearly you missed his entire point.
Its not about the specific piece of land you were born on, its the culture you were raised in.
My cousin was born in Germany, and Lived in germany till she was 15 (my uncle was a career serviceman stationed in Frankfurt for 20 years) and has German citizenship. She went to German schools. She was fluent in german, ate at german resteraunts and shopped at german stores…
Yet she considered her self 100% american. She followed american politics. she followed the Buffalo Bills, New York Yankees and her favorite movies were all american films….
Should I let her know she’s an idiot for thinking shes american? She was born and raised in GERMANY!! So what if she celebrated Thanksgiving with her family, or that her parents spoke english, because they were born and raised in america..
The point is, its not always about what your passport says, but about how you were raised.
by Fedorable on Oct 24, 2010 3:38 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
Well done.
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No clearly you missed the entire point. This is a post about the UFC’s marketing practices – not about everyone’s anecdotal evidence of people living in one country and being attached to another.
So far I’ve impliedly told someone’s grandmother off and called some girl an idiot – are we so incapable of having a conversation that that’s the best we can do?
"You should work for 15 minutes to knock your opponent out, submit him, or improve your position to give yourself the best chance of doing either." - Dan Hardy
Maybe I did miss the point...
Hardy and Bisping are English – born and raised and still live there (although I think Hardy does train here).
Big difference between the UFC manufacturing a Mexican champion.
To me, it seems as though your trying to say that because Hardy and Bisping were born in england, and hold their citizinship there, its ok for the UFC to market them as British fighters.
But because Cain wasn’t born in Mexico..the UFC is manufacturing the fact that he’s the first “mexican” champion.
So, my responce was that, although born in another country, that doesn’t always define how a person views themselves, or their ethnicity…
But, if I read into that the wrong way, help me out…
We’ll first of all the UFC is manufacturing the “fact” that he’s the first Mexican HW champion. I guess Ricco Rodriguez isn’t Mexican enough to count.
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So am I
But its the Bocce Ball capital of California.
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She can call herself whatever she wants, but in the end she’s a human being the other 6 billion of us.
I find nationalistic pride very odd, especilally when it relates to people who cling to a land they weren’t born in.
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by Mike Fagan on Oct 24, 2010 3:31 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions 1 recs
So do I
But its none of my business how they identify themselves. And if they identify themselves as a certain nationality, and their boss can make money off it, sweet.
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I find nationalistic pride very odd, especilally when it relates to people who cling to a land they weren’t born in.
People “cling” to land they weren’t born in for a simple reason. For example, why do you think Mexican-Americans easily identify/cling to Mexico?
by higgledy-piggledy on Oct 24, 2010 4:53 PM EDT up reply actions
Maybe its just me...
And maybe it says something about this sport, but (IMO), I really don’t think even a small percentage of fans will associate Cain with the political debate that is going on right now (unless its brought up by media to Cain). I really thinking that you are overthinking the scenario.
I think with the hardcore fans, they can appreciate the fact that Cain is the best HW in the world, regardless of race.
I think that Latino fans, who are new to the sport, have a fighter who they love to cheer for, and who they can count on as being one of the best.
I think fans who think marketing Cain as the first mexican HW champion are just looking for arguements, or are butt hurt that Brock got destroyed (Like me..well not the racist thing, just mad brock got whooped).
Again…I could be way off, but I just don’t see this turning into a politcal something or other..
It's already happening
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by S.C. Michaelson on Oct 24, 2010 2:51 PM EDT up reply actions
Good Analysis
Any chance you’ll change your name to Cain Veblacksquez?
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What was Cains BS reason?
i think i missed it.
As for any backlash – you may be right to an extent; the UFC will, unfortunately, have to take racist viewpoints into account into their marketing.
That said, i think their marketing WAS subtle. Boxing marketing is a lot more willing to celebrate the heritage/race of fighters. In fact, i think the UFC should have done more (i found their PRIMETIME series pretty weak). The reason is really simple – i dont think race is a card that you have to actively play in fight marketing (especially when a fighter has “brown pride” tattood on his chest). Racist fans who were turned off by the UFCs marketing, would have been put off by Velasquez either way. The UFC made a smart move – they pushed Cain and his tattoo and his flag to try and earn some Latino fans.
on a side note: i wonder if/how GSPs race/nationality or Anderson’s race/nationality have effected their marketability. I wonder if/how GSPs tattoo has been understood.
That he loved his people so much and his Mexican heritage
So he went out and got the exact tattoo that a very large gang in California uses.
Their marketing wasn’t subtle.
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by S.C. Michaelson on Oct 24, 2010 11:05 PM EDT up reply actions
Did I get a GREENED comment? On BE?
The fuck is the world coming to?
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by S.C. Michaelson on Oct 24, 2010 11:03 PM EDT up reply actions
I’m sad you wrote this, I wanted a 20 minute rant on the radio…
by Phildo on Oct 24, 2010 2:15 PM EDT reply actions 2 recs
You'll get it.
Believe me, this one is hitting the airwaves.
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by Luke Thomas on Oct 24, 2010 2:23 PM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
Zuffa has been desperate for a Mexican fighter
They used to have Paul Buentello do post fight interviews in spanish, Roger Huerta used to do interviews in spanish. And it’s not just the first Mexican MMA HW champ, correct me if I’m wrong but there has never been a boxing HW champ either. Cain has a story that many Mexicans can relate to and the use of his father who has been deported numerous times just furthers this especially in the Southwest. Yes, he was born in the United States but just like how Italian american’s identify themselves as Italian, I don’t think it’s a bad thing he’s identifying himself at least partly as Mexican.
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They may not have chosen Cain, but they definitely chose Roger Huerta in the first time around.
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by Mike Fagan on Oct 24, 2010 2:26 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
Zuffa or the Latin community?
The big push with Roger (talking about how he was a poor kid growing up on the streets) actually annoyed a lot of Mexicans because he was viewed as a pretty boy.
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by Matthew Roth on Oct 24, 2010 2:28 PM EDT up reply actions
he is a good looking man
plus he has a personality
Oh he's a goodlooking guy
But there was a disconnect when you market him as this poor street kid when he had model looks.
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by Matthew Roth on Oct 24, 2010 2:31 PM EDT up reply actions
was he not though? a kid can be from the streets and look like a model.
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by The Omaplatapus on Oct 24, 2010 3:09 PM EDT up reply actions
He was a street kid
But Mexicans felt he wasn’t one of “them” based on his looks.
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by Matthew Roth on Oct 24, 2010 3:12 PM EDT up reply actions
In any case, this is only an issue because “Mexican” is a near slur for a lot of racis white people. No one gives a shit when the UFC plays off GSP’s Canadian nationalism.
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by Mike Fagan on Oct 24, 2010 2:32 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions 1 recs
valid point
but gsp doesnt fight “for his people” and he doesnt have a “white pride” tattoo on his chest
Plenty of fighters do fight “for their people” without backlash. BJ Penn fights for Hawaiians an comes out with borderline separtist slogans on his walkout shirts. Polish fights like Pudz and Grabowski fight for their Polish contingencies. Karo and other Armenians, etc. Almost all the British fighters make it a point.
This would hardly be an issue if Cain Velasquez was Charlie O’Brien coming out to the cage to bagpipes and wearing a kilt with Roddy Piper as his guest cornerman.
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by Mike Fagan on Oct 24, 2010 2:45 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Also, Fedor and Russia.
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by Mike Fagan on Oct 24, 2010 2:48 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Ethnocentrism is a turnoff in all cases, especially in the US where a large portion of the population holds an individualistic philosophy/viewpoint compared to a collectivist philosophy/viewpoint
by oousty on Oct 24, 2010 3:28 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
I don't want to get into political debate so I'll just say this
The tension between Mexicans and people from the US because of the immigration issue I am guessing makes people feel antagonistic towards each other. Cain being a little bit outspoken about the issue, and the Brown Pride tattoo (which I think is no big deal) kinda feeds into that tension.
The illegal immigration issue definitely has a lot to do with the tension
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GSP is WHITE
He has White privilege.
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by S.C. Michaelson on Oct 24, 2010 2:53 PM EDT up reply actions
Can you explain how GSP has White Privilege and how it relates to his MMA career?
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by Matthew Roth on Oct 24, 2010 3:02 PM EDT up reply actions
He can promote his Canadian-ness and not have it be held against him
Unlike a fighter with color. In the end, GSP is White. That is all.
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by S.C. Michaelson on Oct 24, 2010 3:25 PM EDT up reply actions
But you've been holding a fighter of color to a higher standard this entire month
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by Matthew Roth on Oct 24, 2010 3:26 PM EDT up reply actions
Not a higher standard
The UFC hasn’t marketed the GSP’s “Canadianness” since the UFC vs Canada PPV. And that wasn’t him individually.
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by S.C. Michaelson on Oct 24, 2010 3:28 PM EDT up reply actions
He headlines cards in Canada
It’s just not been as front and center in the American media but he does the same press and speaks French in those interviews.
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by Matthew Roth on Oct 24, 2010 3:30 PM EDT up reply actions
And Rich Franklin headlines cards in OH
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by S.C. Michaelson on Oct 24, 2010 3:31 PM EDT up reply actions
and rampage headlines cards in Memphis
oh wait…he fucked that up
You might want to check out the poster for UFC 94.
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by Mike Fagan on Oct 24, 2010 3:33 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Was his Canadianness the big marketing push in that fight?
Or did they actually market the fight?
He had a Canadian flag. It was a very very very small part.
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by S.C. Michaelson on Oct 24, 2010 3:59 PM EDT up reply actions
I have one wrinkle to add to this line of thinking
He can promote his Canadian-ness and not have it be held against him
Unlike a fighter with color. In the end, GSP is White. That is all.
Canadians/Canadiens are not seen by the American public as a boarder jumpers, and they don’t need anchor babies. Canada has national health care and a solid economy, so why leave? Mexico sucks for the vast majority of the people born there, so of course they want a better life in the USA.
Ultimately Race/Nationalism plays a role in motivating many of Cains supporters and detractors. Many fighters who study the various MMA disciplines understand the value of diversity in training, and leave the black and white world views to their fans.
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They are, but at the end of the day, he's still White
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by S.C. Michaelson on Oct 24, 2010 11:05 PM EDT up reply actions
No no no
Its Meskin.
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I just feel like with this move, while he could have been everyones UFC HW champion, instead he chose to be it exclusively to the Mexicans. Great way to alienate all the rest of us.
That’s how I’m feeling about it anyway, I’m expecting many others are as well. Takes a little out of the victory celebration for me, still a great fight and everything though.
by Horselover Fat on Oct 24, 2010 2:27 PM EDT reply actions 5 recs
I feel bad for you if you honestly feel “alienated” over all this.
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by Mike Fagan on Oct 24, 2010 2:36 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions 9 recs
Cosigned
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by Matthew Roth on Oct 24, 2010 2:37 PM EDT up reply actions
That is fine, but maybe you at least understand what I’m getting at. By so heavily focusing on someones heritage, you likely make it all the better for those of the same heritage, but for all the others it’s either indifferent at best or alienating at the worst. I tend to cheer on fighters I like based on their personality and fighting style, not racial or nationalistic motives, but when someone so clearly dedicates his victory and championship to a specific group I can’t help but to feel a little left out.
Again, I don’t think I’m alone in this kind of thinking, I’ve at least gotten two rec’s and Michaelson’s comment below.
by Horselover Fat on Oct 24, 2010 3:21 PM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
No you are not alone – its as natural to feel excluded if you don’t identify with the group as it is to feel included if you do identify with the group
"You should work for 15 minutes to knock your opponent out, submit him, or improve your position to give yourself the best chance of doing either." - Dan Hardy
Don't think he was looking for sympathy.
The UFC and Cain alienated a lot of people, including me. I am happy with his performance, he looked amazing. Not looking for sympathy either, just the way we feel.
I agree with your sentiment
and feel a lot of people felt that way. I didn’t/don’t, but I can see it.
"Boy you got me confused with a man who 'peats himself"
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by S.C. Michaelson on Oct 24, 2010 2:53 PM EDT up reply actions
Yesterday night I was Mexican and it felt great. I’m back at being French today, rooting for Kongo and Diabate, Sarkozy for president, eating frogs and stuff…
I'm a lover not a fighter
To be fair, I was eating sweet chili peppers Doritos while watching the fights, should count for something I guess. You’re out of luck by the way, I’m Swedish and my boy Alexander Gustafsson really schooled Diabate last week!
by Horselover Fat on Oct 24, 2010 5:24 PM EDT up reply actions
Anyone who thinks that this is Racist, or a slap in the face to americans are idiots, and just looking for an argument. How is it offensive to anyone that a person is paying homage to their heritage, and their upbringing. Clearly he was raised in a traditional mexican home, so, just because he was born in america, doesn’t mean he can’t think of himself as mexican.
The UFC has the opportunity to make TONS of money. If the UFC promotes Cain on cards with other fighters with Latino heritage (Diego, Diaz, Condit, Tito, Miguel Torres…if they ever merge with the WEC), there is a huge opportunity for big PPV buys.
Brock will always be a huge draw, and fights against Mir, Carwin will be gold for the UFC, especially after another win or two, a rematch will be one of the biggest PPV’s in a long time.
I can understand some of the racial/nationalist concerns
I just think that the overall feeling is that the UFC can’t use this marketing again. He’s a champ, he’s doing George Lopez show tomorrow night. He’s going to be a spokesman for MMA in the Latino market. The only downside is that there are idiots who think Cain is a racist cause of his tattoo.
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by Matthew Roth on Oct 24, 2010 2:45 PM EDT up reply actions
As a middle american white male, I find ZERO offense to that tattoo. I don’t take it as Hate Whitey, but as I’m proud to be Mexican. Anyone that thinks the tattoo is offensive is just being over sensitive.
I think, long term, the UFC will be able to use the marketing for big money. Like I said, in conjuncture with other fighters, and fighting in area’s that have a strong Latino fan base (Texas, Cali ect…) they have an opportunity to do BIG PPV’s. Also, the UFC uses Bisping, Hardy and guys like that to make the european invasian. Now they have a Bonafide superstar fighter along with legit contenders (Diego, Miguel Torres, Diaz, Condit), a transition to mexico shouldn’t be to hard (politics aside…).
by Fedorable on Oct 24, 2010 2:55 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I watched the fights at home
My buddy went to a bar in town. There was more latino support cain than there was for anyone else. Texas, for those that pay attention to MMA, is very happy. And I don’t think Brown Pride is the same as a White Power tattoo, he’s proud of his heritage.
Cain in the post fight conference said he’d want to fight in SoCal, Texas, or Phoenix. He isn’t faking the funk. His dad has been deported multiple times. Cain is self made and in those communities, he’ll be huge. And as I said, he’s doing George Lopez’s late night show, he’ll make a ton of fans within the Latino community in the coming weeks.
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by Matthew Roth on Oct 24, 2010 2:59 PM EDT up reply actions
The show sucks
But George will help bring out his personality. George, when it comes to the media, can either make or break you in the Latino community. He killed Carlos Mencia’s career. If he can make Cain look good, this will be the most important appearance Cain does post championship.
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by Matthew Roth on Oct 24, 2010 3:05 PM EDT up reply actions
Ohh because someone has an opinion other than yours
we are idiots and looking for an argument? You can get off your horse now, please, before you fall off due to ignorance.
Here’s the issue. When Americans chant USA they are derided as drunken douche bag hicks and that this isn’t about nationalism. When people cheer for Cain waving the Mexican flag because they identify him as Mexican they are not labeled in the same way. It’s clearly a double standard. That’s the piece of this that gets under my skin.
Cheer for whomever you want for whatever you want. I really don’t care. If people are going to call out Americans for cheering for Americans from the position of we shouldn’t be concerned about someone’s nationality then I expect to see the same reaction for people from any country. One can’t be intellectually honest and be selectively concerned about nationalism.
I cheer for different people all the time for different reasons. Sometimes it has to do where they are from. I grew up in Michigan. I pull for all the teams there because I’m from there. I identify with them. I don’t think anyone gets their under ware in a bunch over “statism”.
by jrobb20 on Oct 24, 2010 3:01 PM EDT reply actions 4 recs
No other country chants their country's name when it's a Country A vs. Them fight
You don’t hear GSP vs. Serra “Ca-na-da” chants, did you?
Michael Robinson leads the Seahawks in completion percentage, yards-per-attempt, and QB rating.
That's BS
I hear Mexico chants at games a lot.
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by S.C. Michaelson on Oct 24, 2010 3:27 PM EDT up reply actions
Plus they are more creative and they have little songs at soccer games
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by S.C. Michaelson on Oct 24, 2010 3:27 PM EDT up reply actions
That’s a good point, but unfortunatly, there is a double standard. But the thing is, on an average fight card, there is probably 80% american’s to the 1 canadian, or the 1 mexican. So when american’s boo every fighter that isn’t american, it comes across as ignorant.
American’s don’t boo every fighter that isn’t American – you know who got the biggest and loudest boos last night? Josh Koscheck and Brock Lesnar.
"You should work for 15 minutes to knock your opponent out, submit him, or improve your position to give yourself the best chance of doing either." - Dan Hardy
Americans boo every fighter that isn’t American? Overgeneralizing a bit?
by tharv3 on Oct 24, 2010 3:56 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
When Americans chant USA they are derided as drunken douche bag hicks and that this isn’t about nationalism. When people cheer for Cain waving the Mexican flag because they identify him as Mexican they are not labeled in the same way.
Because its not the same thing. You can’t separate history, culture, experience, perspective just cause two groups of people are waving their national flags. Its inherently different. Just like the “’Brown Pride vs White Pride” tattoo argument… their not the same thing and to compare them as if they are is either naivete or willful ignorance.
No offense but I think waving the Canadian or Mexican flag is equal to chanting USA. Both are an expression of nationality. I see lots of Canadian flags at GSP fights and there were plenty of Mexican flags last night.
This topic will get ugly really fast.
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None of this discussion will matter after JDS knocks Cain out
Then the UFC can start promoting the brazilian heavyweight champion by serving caipirinha on fight night and providing Wallid Ismail instant translations.
Hell yeah!
Does it really matter to hardcore fans how the UFC markets to casual fans and newcomers?
I’m not sure why we should. The angle they take to promote it to people who know nothing or very little about the product will always ring a little false to insiders. It’s just PR.
"One thing I will never do is I will never say never." -Dana White
Cain is already getting coverage on Univision's sunday sports show.
The best part…. it’s happening on the pre-show for one the biggest soccer games of the year. I expect to see Cain on a latin media blitz in the coming weeks.
I never had a problem with the marketing
I just felt it was the equivalent of putting a sign outside my restaurant that says “We Have Air Conditioning”…
"We should just concentrate on what we’re good at… Death Metal and interior design." – William Murderface
i dont understand
you called it “hokey” and “desperate” – i thought i was brilliant
it was an
1. attempt to attract a large mexican fanbase
2. an attempt to market a challenger who could win – always a smart move Can you imagine if they had just continued to market brock lesnar and let Cain play some tired role (the young contender facing the biggest test of his life) – what would they do now that Cain has won?. The UFCs marketing gave Cain a fresh role to play and it was one that fit him like a glove.
How is that the same as “we have air conditioning” …. im SHOCKED that you find it that boring.
This issue is extremely sensitive right now.
SC Michaelson makes some very valid points indeed; this is a massive slippery slope.
Right or wrong, race, religion and politics get people worked up and unfortunately bring out the worse. The immigration issues in this country are ready to explode and by marketing Cain this way, the UFC has taken a massive risk in my opinion.
Let’s not forget, people watch this sport to be entertained. People pay $45 once or twice a month to be entertained, not offended. If somehow, the UFC offends people paying for the fights, it is game over for everyone. In the end, the few die hards will still love it, but the rest watch this for pure entertainment. If they are offended or alienated for whatever reason, whether anyone likes it or agrees with it is irrelevant, they will not pay. Like it or hate it, that’s the truth.
A very slippery slope indeed.
No. This isn't wrestling
he effect of people buying PPV’s to see someone lose is small
"Boy you got me confused with a man who 'peats himself"
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by S.C. Michaelson on Oct 24, 2010 11:07 PM EDT up reply actions
People are going to be offended because Cain is Mexican?
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by Mike Fagan on Oct 25, 2010 12:29 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
True that IrodC
But only up to a point. Personally, I will go to a bar instead of paying the UFC. Sometimes I go to a bar and order it online after to watch it again. Those days are soon coming to an end if the UFC continues certain business practices. Not saying anyone cares, but just the way it is for me.
My thoughts
Last week I wrote a response to BloodyElbow article “Why the UFC Is Playing the Race Card With Brock Lesnar vs Cain Velasquez”. The article was one of many in the MMA blogosphere that proposed that Cain Velasquez was not a very marketable fighter and that a win over Brock Lesnar could only hurt UFC business.
There’s no doubt that Brock Lesnar is one of the biggest moneymakers for the UFC. He has the backing of the prowrestling crowd and the ability to sell himself better then most in the UFC. Even the so-called hardcore fans, who usually despise Lesnar, (probably because of his past as a WWE employee) are drawn to his fights hoping to see him lose. But, in a sport where a loss can amount to having your bloodied and unconscious face replayed on sportscenter over and over…a loss can definitely hurt your drawing power (just ask Chuck Liddell).
So, there might be something to the argument that a big win for Velasquez would mean a big loss for the UFC. …Maybe. I, myself, am not convinced.
In my post earlier, I talked about the drawing power of Velasquez and the chance that, if marketed correctly, he could help the UFC capture some of the Mexican boxing fanbase. Velasquez’s brown pride tattoo and his fluency in Spanish might make him a big star, maybe even bigger then Lesnar if he can defend his title a few times. Needless to say – I thought the UFC was right on the money by marketing Velasquez as the "first Mexican heavyweight champion"! In fact, I thought this was some of the best UFC marketing in a long time. I was tired of the bored – humble champion versus bad boy contender routine.
So, when I started reading more from the MMA blogosphere about Velasquez and the UFCs marketing going into UFC 121, I was quite surprised to find upset writers and fans.
I read, for example, Anthony Pace’s "UFC 121 Preview: UFC Likely Prefers Brock Lesnar Defeats Cain Velasquez" which described the UFC’s marketing as "hokey".
Pace explains that the UFC’s attempt to market Valesques "reeks of being a desperate contingency plan. Obviously, the UFC would love to tap into the massive, rabid contingent of Hispanic fight fans that have so often been the last thing propping up boxing. But I guarantee that 90% of the households purchasing Latin Fury pay-per-views would sooner think “Cain Velasquez” is the name of a distant relative rather than one of the top fighters in MMA."
Others, like Zack Arnold (from Fight Opinion) asked if the UFCs marketing was a blessing or a curse; "Does all the "Brown Pride" talk and "first Mexican heavyweight champion" marketing turn off white UFC fans or is it a matter where white fans largely don’t care one way or the other about this?"
Arnold went on to question the UFC’s narrative based on Velasquez’s birthplace;
"They’ve marketed this fight as Cain’s chance to become "the first Mexican Heavyweight champion" despite the fact that he was born in Salinas, California"
I was quite confused by the reactions to the UFCs marketing. I wrote a response to BloodyElbow’s article and received some disturbing news from KidNate himself who told me about the racist commentary they had seen in response to their own articles;
"I know from watching the responses of Bloody Elbow readers to Cain Velasquez’ “Brown Pride” tattoo that the focus on his heritage is upsetting and confusing to a lot of MMA fans."
I took a look at some of the comments myself article and, unfortunately, my enthusiasm for the UFC 121 pay-per-view was quickly replaced by disgust.
Velasquez’s Brown Pride tattoo and the UFC’s targeted marked was inciting a lot of racist responses. Some had commented that the UFC’s marketing and Velasquez’s tattoo were examples of a larger double standard that allowed black and brown peoples to celebrate their races in ways that white people could not. Some even suggested that his tattoo was "unfair" because a white fighter who wore a "white pride" tattoo would probably be ostracized from his employer instead of receiving a marking push and a title shot.
Of course, this comment displaces the "white pride" label from its historical context – we all know that the "white pride" label has been taken up in western culture in a way that "brown pride" has not. The former is clearly not equivalent to the latter and thus there is no double standard here.
Now, I do not want to suggest that the same racist ideas informed comments from Pace or any other journalist. But I do find it … "upsetting" that fans/journalists were so bored by Velasquez and the UFCs storytelling.
The UFC marketing was an attempt to attract a large Latino fan base over from boxing, it told the unique story of Velasquez’s humble beginnings (I loved hearing from Cain’s father – in fact I think a strong cast of supporting characters if what makes 24/7 and PRIMETIME great) and his win over Lesnar last night means that the UFC were on point.
If they had continued to market Lesnar and ignored his undefeated challenger, Cain’s win would have only hurt. But, because the UFC took the route they did, Cain could grow into a star with drawing power that might even parallel Lesnars someday. Theres nothing desperate or hokey about that. Its just good business, and for once, it was an interesting story from the UFC about a great heavyweight whose proud of his heritage.
this should be a fanpost
not a comment
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by Nate Wilcox on Oct 25, 2010 1:05 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
My excitement for this card was replaced with disgust as well, when they chose to market him as a Mexican instead of a fighter.
I guess you will just have to be as upset as though of us who find Brown Pride tattoos or any other racist markings extremely offensive There is definitely a double standard and to think otherwise is surprising to me, even though it probably shouldn’t be.. The UFC could have simply marketed Cain the fighter, not Cain the Mexican Fighter. But they chose this course of action so they get to live with the reaction and consequences. Good or bad, they’ve taken a certain approach and have to live with it. Time will tell but I for one am offended and disgusted by it. I love fighters or different nationalities, but do find Cain very offensive. With that said, he fought an amazing fight and all due credit to him. I still do not like him and will never pay to see him headline a card. The UFC has lost some of my ppv dollars with this approach. That may not mean anything to them or anyone else, but I will go out on a limb and say I most certainly will not be the only one.
As has been indicated, race is a sensitive issue in this country right now, and in my humble opinion, they made a poor poor choice with this one. A rare lapse in judgement from the UFC marketing machine.
I’m really curious as to what “racist commentary” Kid Nate was referring to.
Kid Nate gave me a couple of examples of comments he had to delete ...
lets just say they were clearly racist.
As for marketing Cain into a “mexican fighter” and not just a “fighter” – do you really think Cains race wasnt a factor until the UFCs marketing dollars got behind him? Do you really think Cains tattoo went unnoticed?
And i want you to try to explain that double standard argument to me. How is “white pride” anywhere near “brown pride”
“white pride” has taken on a meaning in our culture that “brown power” HAS NOT. The celebration of the brown identity is VERY different then the celebration of the white identity and that is because of the way that both have been located in history.
Here’s the double standard. If one accepts the premise that a man’s skin color indicates nothing about him other than the amount of melanin contained within his body then on that basis alone it is equally fallacious to have a white pride tattoo as a brown pride tattoo. To treat them as different is a double standard.
If, as I assume you do, one contends that the atrocities of whites committed over the last couple of hundred years makes a white pride tattoo more offensive than a brown pride tattoo then it is merely the result of arbitrarily drawing a line in time whereby we are going to count racial offenses. The fact of human history is that every race has been both slave and master. If we are to hold races that have been masters as evil then we are all evil. If we are to hold races that have been slaves as righteous, then we are all righteous.
Most often the person that sets the timeline sets it in a manner that makes himself righteous and others evil. Therein lies the double standard.
by jrobb20 on Oct 25, 2010 12:08 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
If one accepts the premise that a man’s skin color indicates nothing about him other than the amount of melanin contained within his body then on that basis alone it is equally fallacious to have a white pride tattoo as a brown pride tattoo.
I forgot, we live in a post-racial utopia.
If, as I assume you do, one contends that the atrocities of whites committed over the last couple of hundred years makes a white pride tattoo more offensive than a brown pride tattoo then it is merely the result of arbitrarily drawing a line in time whereby we are going to count racial offenses.
You realize that people are currently using the term “white pride” while calling for the indiscriminate murder of people of color… and that “brown pride” was used in the civil rights movement of the ’60’s and ’70’s? Because if you did, you would know that your argument is utter shite.
Racism is alive and well… your philosophical meanderings fall to pieces when you speak as if we’re in some post-racial society.
Ohhh really now
Well thanks for your lovely enlighten post bleve_. Nice to have someone so fucking perfect on here as the worlds foremost expert. You expertly fail dude.
sorry, shouldn't have gone off like that
It just is an upsetting topic, especially when there is clearly such a double standard. This issue is going to get ugly in this country in a hurry. It’s unfortunate but I fear the worst. People are so naive if they do not see the double standard for minorities and white males. It is utterly ridiculous these days.
Yes, we get it – brown pride was used in the civil rights movement and we should all completely ignore the current and pervasive uses in violent street gangs because you say so.
"You should work for 15 minutes to knock your opponent out, submit him, or improve your position to give yourself the best chance of doing either." - Dan Hardy
If we’re gonna used the dumbed down, simplistic style of Beck and Limbaugh, then here’s a suggestion. Why don’t you get a white pride tattoo on your forehead and then, in the face of criticism, do wonderful positive things… change the tide for the downtrodden suburban white male… stop asking “society” to make a change for you, get off the couch and make that change.
Also, by that logic, we should take into account every nasty, despicable thing done by our gov’t when someone waves the American flag as to not ignore its unjust violence.
Get over it, he’s not going to take your job or ruin the neighborhood.
Yeah I get it
I’ll just keep my mouth shut, keep paying taxes, and let self proclaimed expertly opinionated people like you make all the decisions as to what is racist or non racist, offensive and not offensive, fair and unfair, good and bad, relevant and non relevant, and right and wrong. And if I’m ever unhappy I should just shut up and take it because you say so.
You have it wrong sir when you say people like me should “stop asking society to make a change for you and to get off the couch and make that change”. I mean really? When in history has the suburban white male EVER asked for that?
You win dumbest statement in the thread with that one. Congratulations, you free cookie is in the mail.
Well
Clear cases of racism should be deleted and are just another example of ignorance.
And of course Cain’s tattoo was noticed by almost all die hard fans and supporters of mma long before this card. However his choosing to display this is his own personal choice. I don’t like it, or agree with it at all, but respect his right to display it. The ufc marketing things is another story.
How is white pride different than Brown Pride? I mean, neither paints a pretty picture and both are associated with extreme forms of racism and intolerance of others. Racism is Racism, any which way you look at it. Just because one form of racism has a longer historical perspective does not make a newer form of it any more acceptable.
A discussion of Race and racism...
… is not as simple as “racism is racism”. In order to investigate the ways that race has been taken up in a particular context (in this case – fight marketing), we have to locate it in the context of history.
and, like i said earlier, White Pride is located VERY differently then Brown Pride. This CANNOT be ignored.
Bleve’s post is very interesting.
To sum things up
There is a BIG difference between marketing Cain the fighter who is proud of his heritage and Cain the Mexican who also, I guess, fights.
"Boy you got me confused with a man who 'peats himself"
SCM aka Black Lesnar aka Slap ya Favorite MMA Writer
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by S.C. Michaelson on Oct 24, 2010 11:10 PM EDT reply actions 2 recs
You might be on to something there
Please expand – how has the UFC marketed Cain too much as a Mexican (and not enough as a fighter)? and why is this egregious?
(I found the UFCs storytelling very fresh – especially for MMA).
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