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Brock Lesnar and the Star System: Can UFC Adjust to New Realities?

UFC Owner Lorenzo Fertitta

For years after buying the UFC from Semaphore Entertainment Group, the new owner's of MMA's biggest promotion had a simple mantra: it's the brand stupid. Instead of putting money into promoting individual fighters, fighters who may come and go, the focus was on building the UFC brand. UFC owner Lorenzo Fertitta explained the strategy to Yahoo's Kevin Iole:

One of the things we do is that we invest heavily in the brand. We spend tens of millions of dollars on marketing. We're investing back into the sport. What that does is make everything more valuable for the fighters going forward. They should be happy that we invest back into the sport, because it continues to grow and they can make more money. This isn't a short-term thing.

This was the opposite approach fans were used to. In the sport of boxing, fighters had long ago taken the reigns from promoters. Money in that sport went to the top fighters in the main event - and the show was sold by these top stars, men like Mike Tyson and Oscar De La Hoya. The undercards were such an afterthought that they were rarely ever mentioned on the television broadcasts and certainly didn't make it on the air in their entirety.

Fertitta and Dana White took a different tack. They sold the UFC as an event. Sure, you'd get a great main event at a UFC show. But you'd also get hours of entertaining fights on the undercard. It was a brilliant move, one that Fertitta argues in an enlightening interview in The Atlantic, benefited the fighters as much as the promotion:

I believe that what we built here is an incredible machine and an incredible brand. You hear a lot of criticism, ‘these guys all they care about is the brand, it’s not about the fighters.’ Well let me tell you what. This brand has made a lot of money for a lot of fighters who in and of themselves didn’t have a brand of their own before they fought in the UFC. So the brand creates a lot of value for these guys. 

Now, after building this sport into a billion dollar brand, Fertitta and White face a new challenge. Despite (or more likely because of) their hard work building the UFC into the Kleenex of MMA, fighters are emerging that transcend the promotion. It's not longer enough to sell the UFC brand and expect the dollars to pour in. Fans are starting to differentiate between fighters and cards that are "must sees" and ones that can be skipped over.

The biggest difference maker, of course, is the UFC's mammoth heavyweight champion Brock Lesnar. Lesnar, according to data compiled by MMA Payout, adds almost 600,000 additional buyers to the average UFC pay per view. That's worth a cool $25-30 million to the UFC and their television partners. To Payout, it's part of a trend showing fans are able to distinguish compelling content from the run of the mill.

Television numbers are down across the board for the UFC. That doesn't indicate a lack of interest. As we've seen with Lesnar and other top stars, there is huge interest in the UFC. But that interest is only in the high end product. Less stellar matchups will net less impressive results. The brand no longer does the heavy lifting:

...the television ratings are dropping on Spike for just about everything. I don’t think this a reflection of the sport or a slight to the potential of the product. Rather I think it comes back to provide compelling content. When the UFC provides content like UFN 14 (Silva vs. Irvin) or UFC 105 (Couture vs. Vera) people are going to tune in. When the UFC offers up something like Swick-Burkman as a main event for UFN 12, people won’t.

I hear a lot of concern about over-saturation in the marketplace, but it really all comes down to the product offering. The good events will be highly successful and the bad events will experience just mediocre results.

What we are seeing is perhaps the beginning of a paradigm shift in MMA promotion. The brand alone will no longer sell the sport. That takes compelling fighters and compelling matchups. The UFC's continued success is contingent on recognizing this and rewarding the fighters that draw ratings and create interest accordingly. If Fertitta and White hold fast to the way of doing business that built the company, doors will open for the competition. The UFC has done a masterful job creating this sport from nothing. Now we'll see how well they do at remaining on that carefully constructed pedestal.

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Good read.....

Hes dead on too. I didnt buy my first UFC event for the first time in over like 6 or 7 years. It was the Lidell Franklin card. I figured I could just go to the local Applebees (they buy every one) and watch it there for free.

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by DJ Pullout on Oct 21, 2010 12:09 PM EDT reply actions  

but then again there are a ton of people who never buy a card at their house and always go to a bar.

a life: it's the shit that happens while you're waiting for moments that never come -Lester Freamon

by eastcoastatlas on Oct 21, 2010 1:43 PM EDT up reply actions  

What drum? I don’t understand your critique. Maybe you could expand a bit so there can be a real dialogue?

by Jonathan Snowden on Oct 21, 2010 12:12 PM EDT up reply actions  

How does it change the numbers

When you look at aggregate buys on a calendar year basis, given that there are more shows per year than before. Who has the most accurate PPV tracking figures where they can be compared?

"Sometimes I wonder if the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on, or by imbeciles who really mean it."
-Mark Twain
"If I tell you I'm good, you would probably think I'm boasting. If I tell you I'm no good, you know I'm lying..."
-Bruce Lee

by The American Ronin on Oct 21, 2010 1:41 PM EDT up reply actions  

Because the UFCs weakest,

crappiest cards still sell more PPVs then all the other promotions combined? I have only skipped 1 UFC PPV in the last several years. It is because I know what I am getting. Once in awhile I will buy a non UFC PPV and usually regret it.

We are in playoff baseball season, the ncaa football has started, and the NHL and NFL are in full swing. You can expect to see swings in the number of viewers. It wasn’t to long ago when we (the fans) would get maybe a total of 6 cards a year in MMA. Now we have 50+. I love my MMA and have waited years to have options about what I could watch. Just because I can’t/Don’t watch every single thread of TUF/Bellator/Primetime stuff doesn’t mean I won’t follow MMA. I just have choices now.

by Riney on Oct 21, 2010 3:33 PM EDT up reply actions  

I love my MMA and have waited years to have options about what I could watch. Just because I can’t/Don’t watch every single thread of TUF/Bellator/Primetime stuff doesn’t mean I won’t follow MMA. I just have choices now.

That’s the capsule version of this article…

by Jonathan Snowden on Oct 21, 2010 4:06 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

Jesus

Nice to see that Dana and the Fertittas not only model certain business aspects after the WWE, but they also subscribe to the “take the same supplements as your workers” policy Vince McMahon does. Check out the pipes under that suit!

But more to the point of the article: This is what happens when there are so many options available each month. If there is not an eye-catching main event, why bother when there will be one in another week or two?

BOOSH

by Farthammer on Oct 21, 2010 12:11 PM EDT reply actions  

I wonder if it is due to narcissism or wishful thinking?

Like, maybe if I get huge and train BJJ a few days a week, I’ll look cooler to the fighters. Maybe they will jump in the octagon like Vince jumped in the ring.

BOOSH

by Farthammer on Oct 21, 2010 12:15 PM EDT up reply actions  

yeah, because these guys weren’t meatheads at all before they bought a fight promotion

a life: it's the shit that happens while you're waiting for moments that never come -Lester Freamon

by eastcoastatlas on Oct 21, 2010 1:46 PM EDT up reply actions  

It is hard work keeping the fighters opressed!

Guillotine.

by iiowyn on Oct 21, 2010 2:28 PM EDT up reply actions  

lol really?

Guys making above average livings and doing something they love, thanks almost entirely to Zuffa.

Yeah, fuck Zuffa for making a profit, and for essentially creating the sport we love, I only like promotions companies with flawed business models.

ps: oppressed has 2 p’s.

Jon Jones LHW Champion 2011
Gray and Pray LW Champion 2011

by ShaiZ on Oct 21, 2010 8:14 PM EDT up reply actions  

I thought the misspelling gave it away =(

Guillotine.

by iiowyn on Oct 21, 2010 9:01 PM EDT up reply actions  

Good read indeed

Something new that has come up is the rumored trademarking of “ufc combative sports” to differentiate MMA from simply UFC events. In this way its a workaround for places that dont have legislation in place.

Why is this an issue? Well in the article we have lorenzo basically saying they are investing into/helping the sport. Dana has also repeatedly said UFC opens new doors for other promotions.

If “ufc combative sports” are to become legal in some places instead of mixed martial arts as a whole, are they really helping the sport? Or are they just driving their brand as this article focuses on?

by destructivist on Oct 21, 2010 12:12 PM EDT reply actions  

They are the sport Sir.

Guillotine.

by iiowyn on Oct 21, 2010 2:28 PM EDT up reply actions  

Truth, If the UFC fails

MMA fails.

Maybe that won’t be the case in the future, but right now it is.

These other promotions (as much as I love them, and believe they’re essential) need the UFC to survive.

They use EX middlin’g UFC guys to headline there shows just because UFC has promoted them enough to be recognized.

Jon Jones LHW Champion 2011
Gray and Pray LW Champion 2011

by ShaiZ on Oct 21, 2010 8:16 PM EDT up reply actions  

Honestly I hate the "Over-Saturation" talk

I feel there is no way in my mind and my personal opinion that you can over-saturate the sport of MMA on TV or even the UFC in general. Everytime I turn on the tube I am looking for fights or fight news and I love it. I hate hearing about bad numbers because I don’t want them to do less business or free TV stuff because of it.

I also only probably speak for hardcore fans too so I don’t know how relevant my point is in the real world. I do however love having MMA on TV as much as possible and I hope for as many free fights as I can get and will always add a +1 to my demographic or a +.001 rating increase lol

by The_One_Yandle on Oct 21, 2010 12:13 PM EDT via mobile reply actions  

I don’t think it’s oversaturation exactly. There is a market for the product. It’s just fans are able to distinguish between the compelling stuff and the filler. The cards have to be better to draw an audience.

by Jonathan Snowden on Oct 21, 2010 12:14 PM EDT up reply actions  

Agreed

That definitely appeals more to casual fans as opposed to the hardcores which I guess make up the bulk of wether or not a PPV does good compared to doing great. The Hardcores will always tune in casuals are more reluctant to sit certain events out that don’t intrigue them.

It is hard for me to look from the outside in though in this debate because I sit with the hardcores and I can’t even fathom missing a PPV let alone free fights on TV even if I have to wait through 45 minutes of Real World type house drama lol.

by The_One_Yandle on Oct 21, 2010 12:21 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions  

Also

I sometimes find the “Filler” fights just as intriguing if not more so than the “Compelling” fights on certain cards as well. But this also relates to me being more of a hardcore fan I suppose as compared to a casual.

by The_One_Yandle on Oct 21, 2010 12:24 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions  

But this is the potential saving grace...

The nature of the sport means that often, undercard and under-sold fights will turn out spectacular simply because there are so many different ways to fight and win. This is different than boxing, where you have a better idea of how your opponent is going to at and how to counter him. Even on a terrible show like 119, we got to see Lauzon dominate Ruediger in extremely entertaining fashion.

by gzl5000 on Oct 21, 2010 1:08 PM EDT up reply actions  

Its funny that you mention boxing’s weaknesses and then use an example of a UFC fight from recent history that was a foregone conclusion entering the ring.

by VirtualBalboa on Oct 21, 2010 1:11 PM EDT up reply actions  

Ah, but even though the conclusion was (seemingly) forgone, who expected J-Lau’s suplex or the degree to which he controlled Ruediger on the ground? I mean, first, you’ll always have the odd Matt Serra/GSP I fight where a foregone conclusion goes dramatically the other way. Second, even if it is all but pre-determined, you might still see a very exciting fight in a way you didn’t expect.

by gzl5000 on Oct 21, 2010 2:45 PM EDT up reply actions  

Agreed

There has to be an eye on the mix of fights for a given card being great, not simply matching up the best and most available guys…you run the risk of getting Strikeforce Nashville when you do that…

"Sometimes I wonder if the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on, or by imbeciles who really mean it."
-Mark Twain
"If I tell you I'm good, you would probably think I'm boasting. If I tell you I'm no good, you know I'm lying..."
-Bruce Lee

by The American Ronin on Oct 21, 2010 1:44 PM EDT up reply actions  

This is 100% true, but true in the same way that

Farve and the Vikings heading to GB will have a bigger audience than say:
Jags at KC
Cards at Seattle
SF at Carolina

by truck on Oct 21, 2010 2:21 PM EDT up reply actions  

The Sport's Young, International Stars

Anything’s possible, of course, but my feeling is that MMA is only at the tip of the iceberg in terms of popularity. If you look at the really popular sports, people will watch the big time events religiously, regardless of the participants (Wimbledon, a professional football game, a college football game, etc.). Of course, MORE people will watch if there’s a storyline or a superstar, but even without those fare weather fans these sports do huge and consistent numbers. The sport simply isn’t old enough for enough people to really appreciate it as a sport rather than “Celebrity Deathmatch.”

For me, the UFC’s strategy of pushing its international stars is where the real money is at, because these fighters clearly don’t need to be the best of the best, which makes it far easier to keep the hype train alive. Bisping is the poster child for this. While the UFC of course wants to increase its foothold in the U.S., I think they realize that the real growth potential is abroad. I mean, if you look at what they’re paying fighters, and then imagine even a few million viewers in each country around the world, and of course regional shows, we’re talking serious money.

by superflat on Oct 21, 2010 12:36 PM EDT reply actions  

Zuffa came up with selling the UFC as an event? I seem to remember SEG selling everything as Ultimate something and not Randleman vs Rizzo.

by John Nash on Oct 21, 2010 12:36 PM EDT via mobile reply actions  

Yeah

You could argue not selling the main event was a natural progression for a promotion that went from promoting tournaments to non tournament fights.

"I am a man who pisses largely and frequently, which they say is a sign of great mental activity" -Henry Miller-

by Neil Manich on Oct 21, 2010 12:52 PM EDT up reply actions  

MMA is no different than any other form of entertainment

When there is a huge game on, when a sitcom has a season premier or finally there are more viewers. The UFCs growth was amazing and PPV numbers went up and up because they were bringing in more fans. Now the growth has leveled off and they are in a typical entertainment situation.

Like when a show like Dexter premiered. More and more ppl watch every season till about the 3rd maybe 4th then levels off to where there are only spikes on the big episodes.

by KidThunder on Oct 21, 2010 12:38 PM EDT via mobile reply actions  

Your editing’s a bit weak on this one, Snowden.

by vborn on Oct 21, 2010 12:38 PM EDT reply actions  

Did you win some money or something Jon?

I’m looking at all these replies and they’re nice and inviting reply’s…I’m kind of missing the ole Snowden reply a little bit.

What has a face, but no head and has hands, but no arms?
If you can answer this you can be the new LSU football coach.

by DayGeaux on Oct 21, 2010 1:22 PM EDT up reply actions  

The UFC should reward fighters based on achievement, not ratings. That is what will be good for the sport as a whole, as opposed to for their brand, and keep MMA from becoming pro wrestling. If that opens the doors for other promotions, that will also be good for the sport.

by Finian1 on Oct 21, 2010 12:42 PM EDT reply actions  

I’m inclined to agree with you…but how would that look in your opinion? What would be different?

by gzl5000 on Oct 21, 2010 1:09 PM EDT up reply actions  

If the UFC adopted a policy of rewarding fighters strictly for achievement and not charisma or notoriety, it would have to do what it says it does already. It would look the same except that the UFC would, by necessity, have to continue to promote the sport and not the individual star fighters. There might be fewer slugfests, as the company would not be trying to figure out how to keep a fighter like Jon Fitch out of main events, but in the long run I think the sport will be healthier because its most powerful promotions would be run based on principles, not just greed.

MMA isn’t staged like pro wrestling, but it’s promotional model is very similar. If this cultural change weakened the UFC brand to the degree that other, equally important promotions could emerge, I think it would look like pro wrestling from roughly 1963 to roughly 1986. There were a few big, dominant promotions and many smaller promotions, some independent and some affiliated with the larger promotions.

In short I think that it is not good for any industry to be dominated so thoroughly by one company. It’s bad for the fans and for the fighters.

by Finian1 on Oct 21, 2010 3:48 PM EDT up reply actions  

Ok…so you’re mainly talking about contracts and their composition, maybe cutting the Stephan Bonnars who are exciting but don’t win, and putting Fitches in title contention whether or not they’re exciting?

It makes me cringe as a fan….but I kinda agree. I love Stephan, but he’s not good enough to compete, and Jon is soooo boring but dammit, he wins. Time for a title shot.

by gzl5000 on Oct 21, 2010 4:53 PM EDT up reply actions  

As much weight as the UFC brand carries fans will always want and need stars. There has to be somewhat of a balance between the two.

What has a face, but no head and has hands, but no arms?
If you can answer this you can be the new LSU football coach.

by DayGeaux on Oct 21, 2010 1:24 PM EDT reply actions  

The UFC will always be the world's premiere MMA organization.

Brock Lesnar: UFC as Tom Brady: NFL. Brady didn’t play for a year and the brand kept on keeping on.

When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift
Contributor for WatchKalibRun.com
Still Subo at Fightlinker.com

by Derek Suboticki on Oct 21, 2010 1:58 PM EDT reply actions  

Right. If Drew Brees retired tomorrow I’d still watch the Saints every Sunday. Hell I watched them during the 2-14 seasons.

What has a face, but no head and has hands, but no arms?
If you can answer this you can be the new LSU football coach.

by DayGeaux on Oct 21, 2010 2:18 PM EDT up reply actions  

Exactly.

And if Drew Brees retired and tried to use his talents to grow the UFL, who will get the audience?

The brand is as important as ever.

by truck on Oct 21, 2010 2:25 PM EDT up reply actions  

Obviously star power can have a huge impact, even in mainstream sports. The NBA took off because of the star power of Magic and Bird, and reached its peak behind Jordan. Since Jordan’s retirement from the Bulls rating have gone done. The importance of individual stars has been known for quit some time in the NBA. In fact, star power probably plays a bigger part in the NBA than all the other major sports. Each team has their own star to serve as the face – conveniently not obscured by a helmet or hat – of the team. The NFL has always marketed themselves as teams above the individual talent. I see the UFC more along the line of the NBA then the NFL, and I even see the Hollywood model as being more apt then any team sports model.

by John Nash on Oct 21, 2010 2:32 PM EDT up reply actions  

The NBA is still the premier league though...

a single player moving elsewhere doesn’t change that.

An individual team’s ratings may go down, but that is really no different than different PPV’s getting different buy rates. So long as the UFC remains the top organization according to public perception they will be able to suffer through the loss of the odd star here or there.

Obviously if they lose every star at once and try to field replacements all bets are off…

by truck on Oct 21, 2010 2:41 PM EDT up reply actions  

The difference between the NBA – or any professional league – and the UFC is that:
- team sports are made up of team. Fans are generally fans of teams because of some sort of historical or regional importance to them. Outside of GSP I don’t see a fans following a fighter because he’s “their” fighter.
- they’re leagues. A team coud never leave any of the major leagues because their success is dictated by the rules of the league. To become the NFL champs you have to win enough games in the regular season to secure a playoff birth, then you have to win in the playoffs to make it to the Superbowl, and if you win that your the champ. At least until next season when it all starts again. The UFC has none of that. Fighters are pitted against each other. We aren’t watching playoff, or seasons, we are watching fights which for all practical purposes could be randomly thrown together.

As long as the UFC can draw more fans, sell more ppvs, and pay their fighters more than any competitor things won’t change. But as soon as Brock and Overeem are so big that they know they could put that fight on and keep $20 mil each, then you’ll see it happening.

by John Nash on Oct 21, 2010 2:54 PM EDT up reply actions  

But as soon as Brock and Overeem are so big that they know they could put that fight on and keep $20 mil each, then you’ll see it happening

…and then what?

Arlovski left and chased a one time pay cheque, how did that work out for him?

by truck on Oct 21, 2010 2:58 PM EDT up reply actions  

Also

How many people bought that PPV?

I don’t see a fans following a fighter because he’s "their" fighter.

If this is true it works against what you are saying. Because right there you are acknowledging that it isn’t the fighters that the fans are following.

by truck on Oct 21, 2010 3:01 PM EDT up reply actions  

Let me clarify: it is my opinion that fans follow fighters because they are fans of the fighter, not because that is their default choice because he is the “fighter of San Fran” or the “fighter of the Twin Cities”. Unlike your home team or your religion, fans get to choose the fighters they want to cheer for.

by John Nash on Oct 21, 2010 3:05 PM EDT up reply actions  

jehovah witnesses???

Or so I hear. I keep my pitbull in my front yard to avoid those conversations with them. :-)

"Even Hulkamania wouldn't get you out of this hold"
"True strength is not always shown through victory. Stand up, try again and display strength of heart."

by the-gentle-way on Oct 21, 2010 4:04 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions  

People also choose the team they cheer for. I live in DC and my boss is a huge Cowboys fan.

Guillotine.

by iiowyn on Oct 21, 2010 4:51 PM EDT up reply actions  

Well, in his four fights after leaving he made a reported $3.25 mil – or over $800,000 per fight – as compared to the $175,000 he earned in his last bout with the UFC. So, I would say it worked out great for him. How it worked out for Affliction is another matter…

by John Nash on Oct 21, 2010 3:03 PM EDT up reply actions  

Timmay made $800,000 for fighting Fedor. One paycheck isn’t worth it if your ability to draw is completely shot afterward.

When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift
Contributor for WatchKalibRun.com
Still Subo at Fightlinker.com

by Derek Suboticki on Oct 21, 2010 3:04 PM EDT up reply actions  

Hypothetical: Timmy doesn’t asked to get released and stays, losing to Frank Mir and Brock. What happens? Does the UFC cut him after three straight losses? If they resign him what do they pay him?

by John Nash on Oct 21, 2010 3:08 PM EDT up reply actions  

I think they would have given him a more winnable fight after Nog. The entire time, he’s making exponentially more in endorsements than he did in Affliction.

When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift
Contributor for WatchKalibRun.com
Still Subo at Fightlinker.com

by Derek Suboticki on Oct 21, 2010 3:10 PM EDT up reply actions  

Like JDS? Or Carwin? More winnable than Mercer?

As for endorsements, do you think he was making over a $100,000 a fight? He was never that popular and this was pre-Brock, huge ppv era, so somehow I don’t think it be anymore than that. Especially for a fighter not taking part in the main event.
So if he stayed in the UFC and lost his next two he would have made $400,000. – $200,000 for fighting and $200,000 for endorsements. Compared to the $800,000 + for one fight with Fedor. With the upside that if he beat Fedor he would have had a lot more leverage negotiating a new contract with the UFC. But apparently it would have been smarter for him to turn down a huge payday now because in the course of 4 or 5 fights he might make more. Unless he lost and got cut. Or injured.

I think we should ask ANance if Sylvia thinks he made a big mistake. From what I understand he was pretty wise with that money.

by John Nash on Oct 21, 2010 3:22 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yeah, and Sylvia says he’s happy with where he’s at now. Then again, I wouldn’t expect him to say “I’ve made a terrible mistake”

When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift
Contributor for WatchKalibRun.com
Still Subo at Fightlinker.com

by Derek Suboticki on Oct 21, 2010 3:29 PM EDT up reply actions  

Its easy to pick

2 fighters that EVERYONE knew was overpaid and use them as an example. Maybe Huerta is a better example.

by Riney on Oct 21, 2010 3:37 PM EDT up reply actions  

or Henderson.

Use any example you want. The grass isn’t greener.

by truck on Oct 21, 2010 3:40 PM EDT up reply actions  

But I didn’t choose them as my example, Truck and Derek did. Affliction was a special case anyways, and that is why I loved them: they paid great and made horrible shirts so I didn’t have to feel guilty knowing they were burning money putting on great fights.

by John Nash on Oct 21, 2010 3:48 PM EDT up reply actions  

Brock Lesnar is more important to the UFC

Than Brees, Brady, or Peyton are to the NFL combined.

"I am a man who pisses largely and frequently, which they say is a sign of great mental activity" -Henry Miller-

Contributor at cagepages.com Come check us out.

by Neil Manich on Oct 21, 2010 2:34 PM EDT up reply actions  

...as evidenced by the fact that they did okay in the one year between his fights...

Brock is a short cut. If the UFC dies when Brock retires, then maybe all this talk of exponential growth needs to stop.

by truck on Oct 21, 2010 2:42 PM EDT up reply actions  

No one is saying the UFC will die without Brock. No one is saying he’s their only star. The point is That stars matter more than before in selling the shows.

by Jonathan Snowden on Oct 21, 2010 2:45 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions  

Matter more now then when?

I agee with you to an extent, but the UFC isn’t all of a sudden at the mercy of their fighters. Arlovski and Sylvia were non draws ages ago, while Couture, Ortiz and Liddell attracted big fan fare.

by truck on Oct 21, 2010 2:48 PM EDT up reply actions  

To further this

Arlovski and Sylvia were both allowed to walk while Ortiz and Couture ended up having big drawn out disputes and came home.

The UFC isn’t really at the mercy of the fighters more now than they were then and they have crossed this bridge before.

by truck on Oct 21, 2010 2:56 PM EDT up reply actions  

Randy was the turning point.

If a UFC champion proved they would break their contract if they were unhappy, then that would have opened the floodgates.

It didn’t happen.

When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift
Contributor for WatchKalibRun.com
Still Subo at Fightlinker.com

by Derek Suboticki on Oct 21, 2010 2:57 PM EDT up reply actions  

The point is That stars matter more than before in selling the shows.

This fact – that the UFC has more marketable stars than they ever have before – can be true without signaling a potential paradigm shift. This fact entrenches Zuffa’s position, not endangers it.

When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift
Contributor for WatchKalibRun.com
Still Subo at Fightlinker.com

by Derek Suboticki on Oct 21, 2010 2:52 PM EDT up reply actions  

He’s back!

What has a face, but no head and has hands, but no arms?
If you can answer this you can be the new LSU football coach.

by DayGeaux on Oct 21, 2010 3:50 PM EDT up reply actions  

We'll see

Perhaps one day, your fantasy will come true. I’m taking the Vegas odds on that. If Zuffa is ever anything but the preeminent MMA peddler on the planet, then I was wrong. Until then, I’m right.

When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift
Contributor for WatchKalibRun.com
Still Subo at Fightlinker.com

by Derek Suboticki on Oct 21, 2010 4:09 PM EDT up reply actions  

I’ll stand by my statement. There’s nothing in this article that suggests Zuffa will ever be anything other than the ’preeminent MMA peddler." The ball is in their court. Are you impaired while reading this?

by Jonathan Snowden on Oct 21, 2010 4:12 PM EDT up reply actions  

My attorney has advised me not to answer that.


What we are seeing is perhaps the beginning of a paradigm shift in MMA promotion. The brand alone will no longer sell the sport. That takes compelling fighters and compelling matchups. The UFC’s continued success is contingent on recognizing this and rewarding the fighters that draw ratings and create interest accordingly.

The word “perhaps” notwithstanding, that is nothing but saying that the UFC isn’t as important as it once was and that the UFC has to do what you think it should do or else it will lose ground. If there is one thing I am thankful for regarding Zuffa, it’s that they ignore people like you (here, I’ll save you the trouble: I KNOW JOE SILVA WHO DO YOU KNOW LOL).

You are most certainly suggesting the UFC may lose its preeminence when you start talking about paradigm shifts, the brand losing importance and what the UFC must recognize to continue their success. Here’s the deal: the UFC will succeed whether or not they follow your advice.

When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift
Contributor for WatchKalibRun.com
Still Subo at Fightlinker.com

by Derek Suboticki on Oct 21, 2010 4:20 PM EDT up reply actions  

You would make a tremendous yes man to a bound to fail business. Not sure what you are studying in between criminal charges, but hopefully you end up with a MBA and a low end Brooks Brothers suit.

The UFC has already made major changes to the way they promote fights. There is no weakness associated with meeting the challenge of a changing marketplace. Only an idiot would think the way the sport is promoted won’t need to change as the business grows.

by Jonathan Snowden on Oct 21, 2010 4:36 PM EDT up reply actions  

They created the marketplace – I’ll leave it to them to grow and harvest it. I don’t think they’ll be taking a great deal of advice from the guy that wrote that UFC 100 was bad for the sport.

When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift
Contributor for WatchKalibRun.com
Still Subo at Fightlinker.com

by Derek Suboticki on Oct 21, 2010 5:47 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

lol…have him tell it Lesnar can just go open his own mma company and keep the extra 600k buys it HAS to generate due to his star power alone…

by Anothermmafan on Oct 21, 2010 5:49 PM EDT up reply actions  

Lesnar, according to data compiled by MMA Payout, adds almost 600,000 additional buyers to the average UFC pay per view.

Do you contend this is untrue? Please don’t abuse strawmen in our comments.

by Jonathan Snowden on Oct 21, 2010 6:11 PM EDT up reply actions  

The point is, if you remove “UFC” from that quote, the number changes.

When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift
Contributor for WatchKalibRun.com
Still Subo at Fightlinker.com

by Derek Suboticki on Oct 21, 2010 6:28 PM EDT up reply actions  

and that number changes by a lot

by Anothermmafan on Oct 21, 2010 6:30 PM EDT up reply actions  

Of course it does. Poor Subo, once again unable to comprehend the conversation in a desperate effort to make it “UFC vs. the World.”

by Jonathan Snowden on Oct 21, 2010 6:47 PM EDT up reply actions  

Despite (or more likely because of) their hard work building the UFC into the Kleenex of MMA, fighters are emerging that transcend the promotion.

That’s simply not true. Brock Lesnar, nor any other fighter, transcends the promotion.

When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift
Contributor for WatchKalibRun.com
Still Subo at Fightlinker.com

by Derek Suboticki on Oct 21, 2010 6:56 PM EDT up reply actions  

slightly but it gets the point across

the UFC is synonomous with MMA in america, they’re already the NFL NBA and MLB of their sport

the casual american sports fan knows about the UFC, brock lesnar, georges st pierre and has no idea who fedor, nick diaz, are and what the hell a strikeforce is

to further this dan henderson coulda became a gigantic star after his UFC 100 performance but instead he went to strikeforce and fell off the face of the earth

"I have smoked weed with alot of UFC champions" - Joe Rogan

by milk72 on Oct 21, 2010 2:41 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

Brock Lesnar: UFC as Tom Brady: NFL. Brady Lesnar didn’t play fight for a year and the brand kept on keeping on. In fact they were still very solid with their PPV buy rates and even did over a million buys with Evans / Rampage

by truck on Oct 21, 2010 2:33 PM EDT up reply actions  

Well done.

When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift
Contributor for WatchKalibRun.com
Still Subo at Fightlinker.com

by Derek Suboticki on Oct 21, 2010 2:40 PM EDT up reply actions  

The brand builds the storylines..

Plain and simple.. The brand builds the interest and keeps the interest with story lines..

The marketing strategy is the x-factor.. They’ve taken what the WWE invented and expanded it and crossed it over into the realm of real sport.. It was a genius business model then and it is genius now..

The WWE looked at the parallel between sports and entertainment and crossed them into each other.. Thus many forget that WWE was thought to be “real” for many years before they came out of that closet.

The WWE seen the success that major sports branding established, and also saw the success that having hollywood type drama built up does to the brand. The members (fighters or wrestlers) are merely the byproduct of the brand and not the other way around..

The success of the sport relies solely on Zuffa’s ability manage and market the brand long term. Much like the NFL success over the AFL.. Or the NBA over the ABA.. Ect.. The dominate brand will continue to stand out and the story lines will always create new interests within the brand..

8-29-09

Keith Jardine is now known as "The Dean of Antihistamine" because he is always sleeping early in fights..

7-3-10

BROCKLESNARRRR!!!!

by MMAuthority on Oct 21, 2010 3:28 PM EDT up reply actions  

What we are seeing is perhaps the beginning of a paradigm shift in MMA promotion. The brand alone will no longer sell the sport. That takes compelling fighters and compelling matchups. The UFC’s continued success is contingent on recognizing this and rewarding the fighters that draw ratings and create interest accordingly.

To an extent.

I do agree with some of this. I have talked before about fans becoming more educated and since they know what is going on they are more selective, but that isn’t the whole story. The brand is still a huge factor.

People are going to be more selective about which UFC events they watch, but they aren’t about to start looking at other organizations. Most people don’t even know other options exist. Ultimately the news is bigger and the fights are bigger because they happen in the UFC.

Just like a football player may excel in the UFL, fighters may excel in other MMA organizations but ultimately the majority of the people that are buying the PPV’s don’t care. They consider the UFC to be the big leagues.

by truck on Oct 21, 2010 2:15 PM EDT reply actions  

Has anyone noticed

that we are also in the midst of the worst depression since the thirties?
The fact that the UFC is still selling hundreds of thousands of PPV’s when the people I know don’t have money to buy health insurance or a new car,speaks volumes. When(if) the economy comes back to life, the PPV’s will arc upward as well, for the average cards as well as the GSP – Brock spectaculars…
The softness in the non-Star card buys is much more attributable to the economy than the saturation aspect, imo.

by Dootch on Oct 21, 2010 2:51 PM EDT reply actions  

Television ratings

as a whole have been declining. Cable television suffered it’s first ever decline in subscribers, according to the Motley Fool. We, as a society, have more choices (video games, ipad, streaming movies) than we did even a few years ago, and it’s fracturing our leisure time.

by Dootch on Oct 21, 2010 3:23 PM EDT up reply actions  

+1 Dootch

TV ratings primarily decline because we have “more options” now..

For example.. I don’t watch TV anymore.. But any shows I want to watch.. I’ll download them off the net and watch them when I get down time.. I personally know more than 100 people that do this religiously now.. Especially for shows on premium cable stations.. Why pay an extra 40-60 a month for premium channels to watch Dexter, Entourage, Weeds, and True Blood ?

I’ll just download them off the net in HD and watch them when I get free time..

The same can be said for cable or satellite in general.. Lot’s of people are skipping the extra cost for TV and using the net to satisfy their entertainment needs..

8-29-09

Keith Jardine is now known as "The Dean of Antihistamine" because he is always sleeping early in fights..

7-3-10

BROCKLESNARRRR!!!!

by MMAuthority on Oct 21, 2010 3:35 PM EDT up reply actions  

This.

Me schedule is so fucking hectic being self employed and having 4 kids. I wait for shows like Dexter to be released so I can buy them and watch on my schedule. It sin’t possible for me to be on my sofa every Wednesday at 7pm.

by Riney on Oct 21, 2010 3:41 PM EDT up reply actions  

I used to wait for Dexter on DVD

but a couple spoilers ruined it for me and now I download every episode as they air.

by truck on Oct 21, 2010 3:45 PM EDT up reply actions  

lol.. me too

I download every episode right after they air and then either stockpile a couple and make a “catch up” day or just watch it right then if I have time..

Even show on regular TV.. I download the free shows like the Event for example.. I just don’t have time to watch it as they air and DVR has gotten boring.. at least downloading them I don’t even have to skim through commercials..

That type of options makes it more enjoyable for me.. so naturally if there are a lot of people doing as I do, it’s understandable as to why ratings may drop.. Especially when I don’t even use my DVR anymore…

8-29-09

Keith Jardine is now known as "The Dean of Antihistamine" because he is always sleeping early in fights..

7-3-10

BROCKLESNARRRR!!!!

by MMAuthority on Oct 21, 2010 4:15 PM EDT up reply actions  

I download every episode right after they air and then either stockpile a couple and make a "catch up" day or just watch it right then if I have time..

I watch them asap after I download them. I can’t stand having to wait a week between episodes now though. God damn cliff hangers!! WTF was she talking about!!!

by truck on Oct 21, 2010 4:21 PM EDT up reply actions  

LOL..

I want that shit to be 2 hours long !!!!

I’m the same way with Sons of Anarchy.. That shit has me hooked and I get pissed it’s only an hour !!!!

8-29-09

Keith Jardine is now known as "The Dean of Antihistamine" because he is always sleeping early in fights..

7-3-10

BROCKLESNARRRR!!!!

by MMAuthority on Oct 21, 2010 4:27 PM EDT up reply actions  

I suspect that’s a mischaracterization of what the unnamed article said. “Cable” may be losing subscribers but premium television generally is not. What have been the marked changes in television viewership between 2008-2010?

by Jonathan Snowden on Oct 21, 2010 3:47 PM EDT up reply actions  

I know that

sports-wise, the MLB, NHL, MLS, NBA and NASCAR have all suffered ratings drops, from noticeable to catastrophic (NASCAR). The NFL I don’t know.
As a whole.the 18-34 demo has suffered the biggest drop.
Here is trending data to 2008; I can’t imagine the trend has been reversed in this economic climate over the past year and 2/3, and my guess is it has gotten worse with streaming and the previously mentioned other leisure options that have gained popularity in the past couple of years.
http://tvbythenumbers.com/2008/12/03/updated-where-did-the-primetime-broadcast-audience-go/9079

by Dootch on Oct 21, 2010 4:00 PM EDT up reply actions  

That’s not remotely what this article says. In fact, this article shows a growing cable audience. It’s about the fall of the network television audience.

by Jonathan Snowden on Oct 21, 2010 4:10 PM EDT up reply actions  

You're not looking at the trend

a;; viewership peaked in 2004-05. That’s the whole point. Broadcast, Premium, Basic, name your poison; they’re all declining. This isn’t comparing cable to broadcast, it’s comparing cable to itself and where the ratings have headed over the past 5-6 years, which is down.

by Dootch on Oct 21, 2010 4:14 PM EDT up reply actions  

Holy shit

Is he correct about the trend or isn’t he?

When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift
Contributor for WatchKalibRun.com
Still Subo at Fightlinker.com

by Derek Suboticki on Oct 21, 2010 4:21 PM EDT up reply actions  

Ad supported basic cable has increased viewership every year since 1984. So, no, he’s not right when he says:

they’re all declining.

by Jonathan Snowden on Oct 21, 2010 4:24 PM EDT up reply actions  

Combined HHV for broadcast and cable combined peaked in 2004-2005 at about 74%. In 2008, it was below 70%. That’s what it says, in black and white (and color).
More people are watching cable than broadcast? Yes. But it is a larger piece of a shrinking pie, and the younger demo has the biggest shrinkage (joke inserted here).
And, I am saying that trend is accelerating, due to the other options we have now that we didn’t even a few years ago.

by Dootch on Oct 21, 2010 4:29 PM EDT up reply actions  

The article characterizes primetime television viewing as relatively static. It is slightly down from an alltime high in 2004-2005 but above where it stood in the 1980’s. Meanwhile, overall television viewership is at an all-time high.

And more people are watching cable every year.

by Jonathan Snowden on Oct 21, 2010 4:33 PM EDT up reply actions  

Spikes overall ratings dropped

17% in 2009 from 2008. It has the 10th largest viewership in the 18-34 demo.

by Dootch on Oct 21, 2010 4:39 PM EDT up reply actions  

Dootch is emphasizing the central point..

The ratings aren’t a direct indicator of audience viewership anymore.. Primarily due to the fact that there are lot’s of people using the internet for their entertainment as opposed to TV. It doesn’t mean people are losing interest or not watching.. Not in the least.. They now have more options in how and when they watch, therefore it will directly effect how the ratings show..

I just mentioned in a previous thread.. I don’t even use my DVR anymore.. I like downloading my shows and watching them at my own convenience. I choose to download them now because they edit out the commercials altogether. Which means I can get the same thing and not have to spend time skimming through commercials on certain shows.

I watch the new NBC show “The Event”.. That’s a free show on regular cable.. I still choose to download it and watch it when I can rather than DVR it and then skim through commercials while watching it. Therefore, I’ve directly affected the ratings, but haven’t put a dent in the actual viewership.

8-29-09

Keith Jardine is now known as "The Dean of Antihistamine" because he is always sleeping early in fights..

7-3-10

BROCKLESNARRRR!!!!

by MMAuthority on Oct 21, 2010 4:22 PM EDT up reply actions  

No

UFC Fight Night 12 did a shitty rating (what that has to do with Brock Lesnar, we’ll never know). Thus, the UFC is struggling and must immediately change what it’s doing.

/being the Skip Bayless of MMA

When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift
Contributor for WatchKalibRun.com
Still Subo at Fightlinker.com

by Derek Suboticki on Oct 21, 2010 4:25 PM EDT up reply actions  

UFC television ratings are down this year across the board. The WEC is flailing. Ratings are becoming dependent on the stars attached to an individual show, not a promotion’s logo. Stars like Brock Lesnar play as big a role in selling a show on PPV as the promotion’s name. That’s what Brock has to do with this article. It’s evident to anyone who isn’t an astroturfer or a simpleton.

by Jonathan Snowden on Oct 21, 2010 4:30 PM EDT up reply actions  

Look…they tested running shows without a big marketing push and tons dumped into it. Middle/high name fighters ect ect. Their return was nice relatively speaking. Kinda like an indie movie doesn’t do mainstream numbers..but the return vrs investment is worth it. Not to mention the return the get from oversaturation…..average views then watch less other brands of mma. So yeah you doing numbers showing less is cool..but it doesn’t even close to hold the whole truth of this machine. imo

by Anothermmafan on Oct 21, 2010 5:08 PM EDT up reply actions  

The UFC made Brock Lesnar into a PPV seller. His numbers more than doubled between his debut and UFC 100. They made him, and they wll make others.

When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift
Contributor for WatchKalibRun.com
Still Subo at Fightlinker.com

by Derek Suboticki on Oct 21, 2010 5:48 PM EDT up reply actions  

Wow. If it’s that easy, I’d have expected they’d try to do it again!

by Jonathan Snowden on Oct 21, 2010 5:56 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

So K1 did 600k buys extra on Brock’s first fight??

by Anothermmafan on Oct 21, 2010 5:59 PM EDT up reply actions  

Of course

It’s 100% transferable with or without the brand. Ask Tim Sylvia!

When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift
Contributor for WatchKalibRun.com
Still Subo at Fightlinker.com

by Derek Suboticki on Oct 21, 2010 6:01 PM EDT up reply actions  

I see it now

DeathCluth MMA. 1st ppv 600k buys 100% just ask Snowden…

by Anothermmafan on Oct 21, 2010 6:05 PM EDT up reply actions  

Lesnar, according to data compiled by MMA Payout, adds almost 600,000 additional buyers to the average UFC pay per view.

Do you contend this is untrue? Please don’t abuse strawmen in our comments.

by Jonathan Snowden on Oct 21, 2010 6:11 PM EDT up reply actions  

No

I disagree with you saying it’s all personal star/draw power. UFC and Lesnar are a good ‘partnership.’ You’re trying to isolate a single thing instead of the overall topic you OP. This was one short commented jab I did sure…but overall even you must understand the invest/return model. They don’t care if every show breaks records. Sure it would be nice, but hell it’s not even smart. Say the UFC only did 6-7 shows a yr and made them barn burners. Nice sure…but there is still a lot of money left on the table. Not to mention the opening you give for other orgs to garner interest in the UFC off time. Instead put on filler shows. Make half as much, but spend a 1/3 as much. Keep people seeing UFC with everything related to MMA. Look..if the UFC only makes it tougher for other companies to exist..that alone is profit to them. Brock also gets a piece of buys..as all real draw stars should. The stance of the op is off.
wec not withstanding..never did like that idea/model……the UFC is pretty on point.
My question is, "do you believe Brock can be with any other org out there and generate 600k buys all together? Personally I don’t even think Fedor and Brock can generate that much draw outside the UFC. Then start counting for more than one event.

by Anothermmafan on Oct 21, 2010 6:28 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

I wonder why he didn’t respond to this.

When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift
Contributor for WatchKalibRun.com
Still Subo at Fightlinker.com

by Derek Suboticki on Oct 21, 2010 7:01 PM EDT up reply actions  

It is quite easy to read with pretty simple ideas actually.

Guillotine.

by iiowyn on Oct 21, 2010 9:03 PM EDT up reply actions  

It’s hundreds of words in a block of text with ellipses instead of paragraph breaks and stuff like:

You’re trying to isolate a single thing instead of the overall topic you OP. This was one short commented jab I did sure…

No thanks…

by Jonathan Snowden on Oct 21, 2010 10:02 PM EDT up reply actions  

So we are wall of text artist or the point is invalid

The truth is Snowden knows nothing of business. Obvious in his lack of understanding of models. FUNNY thing is…WHAT point does he make here? NONE…what does the UFC have to adjust to Explain that!! What new model does the UFC need to use?
My comment gets deleted for ‘namecalling’ and yet Snowden calls people names in this very post? Double standards to protect the obviously weak minded.

Stop pretending like you’re a Wharton when you have 00 understanding of overall models.

by Anothermmafan on Oct 23, 2010 10:50 AM EDT up reply actions  

Build your company around your new 'paradigm shift'

then your star gets smashed like Brock just did. Everything else in the post is obious. Better to hold other companies down with their ability to oversaturate and be ok.

Either way…gogo your plan to start DeathCluth PPV….LOL

Stick to blogs cut and paste.

by Anothermmafan on Oct 24, 2010 12:30 AM EDT up reply actions  

Exactly

I don’t have a TV, neither do many of my friends. I stream or download anything I want to watch. It hasn’t dampened my enthusiasm for the UFC, or MMA in general.

by Dootch on Oct 21, 2010 4:45 PM EDT up reply actions  

Meh

The brand continues to be a big factor to everything else. Opponents, like villains in a good hero movie, are needed as much as your main guy. Like Sonnen and Silva. The marketing and push behind a fighter such as Lesnar’s caliber still needs marketing, promotion and competition beyond 1 or 2 fights. If Lesnar started and stayed in Strikeforce we would see a massive drop off in buys…not to mention we would say, ‘cool, now let’s see him against the best in the UFC.’ This article would have you believe that if Brock was in Bellator they would be seeing 1million ppv buys per Brock….lol

by Anothermmafan on Oct 21, 2010 4:43 PM EDT reply actions  

So pretty much what your saying is

The UFC has gotten it’s name out there, but a lot of it’s fighters haven’t?

I'm Don Frye and your not. - Don Frye

by MrTechnique420 on Oct 21, 2010 5:27 PM EDT reply actions  

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