The Suicide King That Is Boxing: Mayweather vs. Pacquiao Off
by Luke Thomas on Jan 7, 2010 9:31 AM EST
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Kevin Iole reportsBut the fight ran aground over Mayweather’s insistence on Olympic-style drug testing. The sides agreed to mediation this week in Santa Monica, Calif. before retired federal judge Daniel Weinstein, but a solution could not be reached and the sides walked away.
Arum said Pacquiao is planning to fight Yuri Foreman, the World Boxing Association super welterweight champion, on either March 13 or March 20 in a bid for yet another world title. Arum said he wants to put that fight in Las Vegas, but said he still has to negotiate a site and will speak to Dallas Cowboys owner Jerry Jones about holding it in Cowboys Stadium.
Mayweather is expected to pursue a fight for March with former super lightweight champion Paulie Malignaggi.
Reading boxing writers closely the last few weeks, many viewed this potential Pacquiao vs. Mayweather superfight as the final culmination of a boxing resurgance. It wasn't going to stop MMA, but it surely would've answered criticisms about boxing's modern viability as well as recharge melancholy fans. All of that is now gone.
Strangely, it was thought that there was too much money, too much meaning to keep this fight from happening. But the reverse appeared to be true: there was too much at stake for the parties to be able to produce an agreement. There was too much to risk in a sport of artifice. I tend to think Mayweather's camp was not only hypocritical, but also insistent on perfucntory roadblocks. It doesn't matter. What matters is that at a moment when the sport could've crushed the ugly dissent from within the community and quelled cricitism from beyond, it gave in to it all. Red tape and self-sabotage ultimately overcame potential and even destiny. Doesn't that sound familiar?
Dana White is going to have a field day with this one. I don't know that I blame him. What an absolute shame.
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It's funny watching everyone get strung along.
I specializes in grammar fail.
by a tommy point on Jan 7, 2010 12:22 AM EST up reply actions
Yeah, I was in the “too much money for it not to happen” up until a week ago, but I now no longer believe such things.
Twitter: @Mike_Fagan_13
http://www.sackmikegoldberg.com
There’s only one reason why this fight wouldn’t happen: Floyd is scared he’ll lose the zero.
Floyd’s entire identity, as Larry Merchant has pointed out, is wrapped up in the fact that he hasn’t lost a fight. Whenever there has been criticism of Floyd for not fighting the top welterweights in the world, Floyd has been able to hide behind the zero. Thus silencing the critics. The same goes for his perceived penchant for choosing smaller opponents. He’s got the zero, can’t argue with him. Merchant is of the idea that Floyd might just be legitimately scared of losing his place in history, his identity. It might just mean more to him than a 35 million dollar payday.
Me? I’m of the idea that Mayweather chose “Money” as a nickname for a reason. This fight will happen. The zeroes Floyd loves most usually line up 6 or 7 deep.
The danger is trying to balance all of the back-and-forth posturing so that the public doesn’t completely lose interest. Something which may be closer to happening than all parties involved realize.
I specializes in grammar fail.
by a tommy point on Jan 7, 2010 12:41 AM EST up reply actions 6 recs
too much is made on records in boxing
randy coutures 17-10 and a legend of mma, anderson silva has 4 losses and is p4p the best but if floyd losses it tarnishes his legacy
Not really
They groom boxers much differently.
Blackout612- "Wuts teh UFC?"
Ubernoober- "It like two guy who just stand and swing for fence and try to knock each other shit out it awesome"
I guess he hasn't really studied his boxing history
To this day… The consensus greatest professional boxer of all time was Walter Smith Jr, AKA “Sugar” Ray Robinson. Who’s record stood at 175-19-6 by the time retired. The consensus greatest Heavyweight fighter – Cassius Marcellus Clay Jr, AKA Muhammad Ali’s Record is 56-5. In fact, one of the few boxers to retire undefeated is way far down on the all time list. His name was Rocky Marciano. And he is around #10 all time heavyweight. Why is that?. Because adversity brings greatness. Seeing someone down, then rise again and conquer their adversaries they way they did inspired the people whom love them to this day. Floyd should know by now, that a record does not greatness make.
by SimplePsych on Jan 7, 2010 4:25 AM EST up reply actions 2 recs
What list are you looking at?
Rocky Marciano should not be far down anyones list of greatest of all time.
by b2tharad on Jan 7, 2010 8:21 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
No undefeated fighter is in the top 30 or so
Marciano is the best of the undefeated fighters, and he fought in an exceedingly weak era, but he did take on all comers. After that, you have luminaries like Joe Calzaghe, Ricardo Lopez, Sven Ottke, Lazslo Papp and Harry Simon. Sure, a few hall of famers, but other than maybe Lopez, nobody who would be in a top 50 all-time list.
Bad Left Hook - The SB Nation boxing blog
"Baseball is played on the field, not on a calculator."
Joe Louis
I’m pretty sure he is the consensus greatest HW fighter of all time.
by Chris Barton on Jan 7, 2010 11:31 AM EST up reply actions
Floyd will rationalize it by saying he can just fight 3 times against less-than-stellar competition, and he’ll get the money he would have got from this fight. And sadly, he’s probably right.
"He's taking more hits than Nick Diaz's bong." - The Voice
His delusional pride and obsession with being undefeated trumps that logic. He’s proven it time and time again.
"He's taking more hits than Nick Diaz's bong." - The Voice
Have them go to work on the home boys here,
with a pair of pliers and a blow-torch.
There is no such thing as innocence, only degrees of guilt.
http://www.boxingscene.com/?m=show&id=24534
Insidesports.ph, Standard Today, Viva Sports and BoxingScene.com understand that the Mayweather handlers led by Golden Boy Promotions CEO Richard Schaefer and Mayweather’s top adviser Al Hayman had tried to convince the fighter to agree to the 24-day blood test proposal which Pacquiao had agreed to and which medical experts had said was more than sufficient to detect any traces of performance enhancing drugs, but they were turned down by Mayweather resulting in the fight being called off.
Mayweather is either terrified of Manny, a distinct possibility, or he’s up to his usual pre-fight hype antics.
I specializes in grammar fail.
by a tommy point on Jan 7, 2010 1:20 AM EST up reply actions
If this is a pre-fight antic
he’s gotta realize that this is more than just playing the heel, he’s actually tarnishing the image of his entire sport
Wouldn’t put anything past the Mayweather family. That’s why I still think this fight happens.
I specializes in grammar fail.
by a tommy point on Jan 7, 2010 1:27 AM EST up reply actions
since when has floyd shown that he cares about anything other than himself? he doesnt give a fuck about the sport of boxing, the fans or any fighter.
by sadface on Jan 7, 2010 2:34 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
Fuck!
I haven’t EVER bought a boxing PPV, and this was going to be my first.
Damn.
"You guys are jerking eachother off with some pseudo deep bullshit." - Kid Nate
by Kaleb Kelchner on Jan 7, 2010 12:20 AM EST reply actions 7 recs
Funny. I was just about to write that this is a boxing match that could actually draw MMA fans over to watch!
Hey, before MMA, it was boxing, so I’ve always appreciated a great boxing match. This fight was huge, and I really hope they still make it happen, but the sooner, the better.
Weather it happens down the road or not, right now, both men are in their primes, the best they will liekly ever be. That is so rare, and for boxing this fight was important.
What a shame.
"You guys are jerking eachother off with some pseudo deep bullshit." - Kid Nate
by Kaleb Kelchner on Jan 7, 2010 12:25 AM EST up reply actions
I hadn’t been this excited for a boxing match in a very, very long time. I would have skipped a UFC event for this, hands down.
I love me some Sexyama!
If I had $30-50 million pretty much in the bank there’s no way in hell I’d let it fall through, how completely stupid are these guys gonna feel looking back 20 years from now.
Yeah no shit.
Especially considering Mayweathers rumored financial issues.
by MauiPimpin on Jan 7, 2010 12:25 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
Except that they'll still fight, no doubt
But it’s less likely that this will be a two fight or three fight series the longer they wait. I expected at least two..
Blackout612- "Wuts teh UFC?"
Ubernoober- "It like two guy who just stand and swing for fence and try to knock each other shit out it awesome"
another kick to boxing when its down
this sport really doesnt have much left this situation displays just about everything wrong with it in a nutshell
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Keep firing Assholes!
It’s as if you fell down a flight of stairs, then logged onto the internet.
by Ubernoober on Jan 7, 2010 12:23 AM EST reply actions 3 recs
Only way it would is if they say he's fighting George Foreman.
by Plunkett on Jan 7, 2010 12:38 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
thatd actually be pretty cool
boxing should start doin freakshow fights super-hulk style
As a jew I’m really happy about this fight , it’s gonna be an honor to watch Yuri fight one of the best boxers ever – tho it’s clear he’s going down HARD in that fight . But who cares , go Yuri go go go!
I wouldn't be so sure he's going down.
See below for why
Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
MMA Editor - SBNation.com
by Brent Brookhouse on Jan 7, 2010 9:10 AM EST up reply actions
Either a smaller fighter or someone who’s not quite top of the class.
by Monday Morning Martial Artist on Jan 7, 2010 3:09 AM EST up reply actions
He’ll rip boxing and/or Mayweather for failing.
Twitter: @Mike_Fagan_13
http://www.sackmikegoldberg.com
Rightfully so. Mayweather done fucked this one up good.
Keep firing Assholes!
It’s as if you fell down a flight of stairs, then logged onto the internet.
Right, because this kind of shit would never happen in MMA. Who won that Lesnar-Fedor fight in September again?
MMA isn’t nearly so reliant on a single bout.
Blackout612- "Wuts teh UFC?"
Ubernoober- "It like two guy who just stand and swing for fence and try to knock each other shit out it awesome"
Well it’s not like this fight was gonna save boxing, it would make a few select people that much richer and the rest of the boxing world would be in the same position a year from now that they are today.
I don’t know what the argument is here, but it’s clearly very important to boxing’s future. They need it a lot more than MMA could ever need Fedor/Brock.
Blackout612- "Wuts teh UFC?"
Ubernoober- "It like two guy who just stand and swing for fence and try to knock each other shit out it awesome"
by Blackout612 on Jan 7, 2010 12:42 AM EST up reply actions 3 recs
What other boxing matches were you looking forward to? Boxing has been building momentum recently with some very good fighters putting on very good fights. This could be the most important fight early on in this century for boxing, and the sport needs it to build future fights. You can’t build on Pacquiao vs. Some guy and Mayweather vs. Pauli-whatever.
by gavingavinkindgavin on Jan 7, 2010 5:21 AM EST up reply actions
This is right in Dana’s whellhouse for ranting.
Complain about Fedor/Brock all you want,but it was never this close to happening and then getting pulled away.
The other thing, is he now has a big time example to point at and say that exclusive contracts and having one matchmaker and organization is better than letting everyone do their own thing and hoping it all works out in the end.
This is especially true because of the perception they’re putting out that it has fallen apart over something like drug testing, which can never be an issue in the UFC, because everything is standard when you fight in the UFC. No negotiation over specific purse splits, no ring/glove size, you do whatever drug testing the commission says, etc.
he'll rip boxing for failing to deliver to the fans once again
u gotta remember dana started as a boxing guy and is a self proclaimed boxing fan
Exactly, haven’t you seen what happens when Dana dosen’t get what he wants???
"You guys are jerking eachother off with some pseudo deep bullshit." - Kid Nate
by Kaleb Kelchner on Jan 7, 2010 12:36 AM EST up reply actions
To tie this back into MMA ...
By the time the end of March rolls around, we’ve got GSP-Hardy/Mir-Carwin; what looks like possibly a loaded show in Abu Dhabi; Fedor’s April fight; Machida-Shogun 2 on May 1; and probably Rashad-Rampage on Memorial Day weekend. And boxing will have missed its opportunity to seize on the media storyline of its resurgence in the interim.
One less show in March to compete against as well. Could have had Mayweather-Pacquiao on the 13th, UFC 111 on the 27th, And Wrestlemania on the 28th. PBF-Pac could’ve broken the record and Wrestlemania will probably do 600,00+ buys domestically. This fight being canceled will only do good things for UFC 111.
by Plunkett on Jan 7, 2010 12:45 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
I still think this might go down in the future, but if not, hopefully one of them will step up and fight the winner of Berto/Mosley.
"He's taking more hits than Nick Diaz's bong." - The Voice
as a competely casual boxing fan
i dont care about anyone other than these 2 cause basically the media tells me too mosley berto means absolutely nothing to me
This not only hurts boxing but it hurts those that still support it… namely, HBO. Shaefer is getting his butthole chewed out while everything falls apart.
What a dumb fucking moron. After all his meddling in HBO boxing and fucking up the product now this shit. Greenburg you gone fucked up relying on this amateur and your enemies from within will be shitting your carcass out.
It's impressive to see
a man so in touch with his emotions.
There is no such thing as innocence, only degrees of guilt.
I think Dana would be bummed about this..
based on a few statements he made, he seemed to really want to see that fight happen.
I still think this will happen.
Maybe not today, but in the near future. However, I do agree that this might have been the final chance to give a resurgence to Boxing. All the big names in boxing are done or nearly done, and I think people will look back on this in a few years and talk about it being the final nail in the coffin.
I love me some Sexyama!
Goddammit...
RT @pacquiaonews: RT @KevinI: Top Rank: “Manny is moving on. It doesn’t appear Mayweather wants to fight Pacquiao.”
Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try Again. Fail again. Fail better. -Samuel Beckett
by Scott C. Broussard on Jan 7, 2010 1:19 AM EST reply actions
Even if this fight does eventually happen
the damage to the reputation of boxing has already been done. They’d come so far erasing all the negative connotations of the past few years, and they had this one shining opportunity to put a nail in that coffin once and for all; the two biggest names of their time were on a collision course, and the fight that needed to happen was actually going to happen.
Sadly, like an old addict, they’ve fallen back on old habits. The fight that needs to happen isn’t happening. Even if it finally happens later, the damage has been done.
I’m a die hard MMA fan who never got in to boxing, but this still makes me sad.
Maywheater's dad has been accusing Paquiao of using steroids for a while.
I knew they would mess this up.
by snakecharmer1340 on Jan 7, 2010 1:22 AM EST reply actions
"I see him beating Anderson Silva. I see him picking him apart. Him at a 131 years old...(trails off)." - Tito Ortiz on Vitor Belfort at Affliction:DOR
by Rundownloser on Jan 7, 2010 1:31 AM EST reply actions 13 recs
Mayweather Vs. Pacquiao on Nov-Dec 2010...
"I' Always Look Tired, I Play Possum" - Mark "The Hammer" Coleman
Not December...
that’s an “off month” in boxing. The big month would be September
Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
MMA Editor - SBNation.com
by Brent Brookhouse on Jan 7, 2010 9:12 AM EST up reply actions
i wish i could rec this via mobile.
by sadface on Jan 7, 2010 2:39 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
If Pacquaio beats Yuri Foreman and Mayweather beats Paulie Malignaggi, then will Pacquaio vs Mayweather finally happen? The setup that played out in Pacquaio beating Cotto and Mayweather beating Marquez was really good in setting up a bout between Pacquaio vs Mayweather, so it just seems so ridiculous that this happened. Outside of an injury, it sucks that this bout that made a lot of sense isn’t going to happen when boxing and even non-boxing fans are clamoring for it.
Mayweather will not be great WITHOUT Pacquaio
A very similiar fighter to PBF, Sugar Ray Leonard wasn’t great until he lost to a hungry, young Panamanian named Roberto Duran. THAT gave him the motivation to be great. Pacquaio IS PBF’s Duran. Count on it!
I apologize for the rant
f*ck unjustified pride of being undefeated
f*ck fear of blood testing when you are the p4p best fighter
f*ck wanting co-promotion and being a parasite
f*ck not wanting to co-promote
f*ck steriod use
now its over, i’m going to move on and hype myself on Coleman vs Couture
I am. I think. I will. - Ayn Rand
I find it very emblematic...
that boxing thinks that one big fight between its two biggest names will symbolize its resurgence when the sports focus on a small hand full of fighters is one of its biggest problems in the first place.
by Razreshat on Jan 7, 2010 8:37 AM EST reply actions 3 recs
The Yuri Foreman fight is a legitimately dangerous one for Manny and could fuck everything up down the road. Foreman is a much bigger guy than Manny is used to fighting. Rather than Oscar draining himself to meet Manny, Manny will have to come up to light middle for that fight.
Foreman has the ability and length to just keep Pacquiao outside with his jab (he has 5 inches of reach on Manny). That is the really scary thing about this fight. On paper it looks like “Manny Pacquiao vs. Who?” but in reality it is a fight that Foreman really could win.
Manny will be a big favorite, and obviously should. And I’m not saying that Foreman will beat him. I’m just saying that the risk of taking this fight is bigger than it might be on first glance.
It does have the ability to possibly sell decently though as Manny has a large fanbase as does Foreman as the first Israeli world champion.
Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
MMA Editor - SBNation.com
by Brent Brookhouse on Jan 7, 2010 9:22 AM EST reply actions
Manny could just use leg kicks or a takedown to negate Yuri's reach advantage...
oh, wait. What are we talking about?
I don’t post much, but here is my take. Yuri Foreman is going to get creamed by Pacman. He has never seen or sparred with someone so fast. Then Manny has his 8th linear championship, which, I think matches the all-time record of Sugar Ray Robinson, considered the greatest boxer of all time. Once Pacman has #8, Bob Arum holds all the cards against Matweather. His guy (Manny) will currently and all-time be considered a better boxer, Manny stepped considerably in weight/height/reach in beating Foreman, and Arum will have an extra 6 months of spinning Manny being afraid of needles into "Floyd is scared of losing the “0”, but my guy is one of the greatest all-time and he has 4(?) losses."
Can someone in the know tell me when they think the last day for this thing to get done for the March 13 date?
I read lots of people that say they still think this is going to happen, but it seems to me that time is running out. Other people also think that this is the death blow, but what do you think the real drop dead date is?
It's dead...
at least for March 13 it is dead. The Foreman fight is already pretty much a done deal for Manny and Floyd will fight the weekend before against Paulie and everyone will be expected to shell out $120 to watch on back to back weekends.
If they both win, expect to see another round of negotiations for a September date. IF it still happens that’ll be when it does. If it doesn’t happen in September I, personally, don’t think it ever does.
Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
MMA Editor - SBNation.com
by Brent Brookhouse on Jan 7, 2010 9:56 AM EST up reply actions
No one should buy these fights
Even if you find them interesting, your just supporting their dodging.
I agree 100%. Will I buy Pacman-PBF a few months down the road though? You’re goddamn right I will. And I don’t care if every UFC belt is up for grabs the same night. This is fight of the century, maybe millenium.
I'm the best ever. You're the most average in a minute.
And NEW UFC Welterweight Champion of the World.....Dan "The Outlaw" Hardy!
by slapjaw ackrite on Jan 7, 2010 4:51 PM EST up reply actions
Why is Floyd the bad guy here?
Manny is refusing the kind of routine testing all Olympic level athletes receive. What is he hiding? Floyd is putting his health and his future lucidity on the line: he has every right to insist on real drug testing.
by Jonathan Snowden on Jan 7, 2010 10:49 AM EST reply actions
Why should he submit to Olympic level testing if he’s not an Olympic athlete?
by BilboMcFonzie on Jan 7, 2010 10:54 AM EST up reply actions
So the bout can be contested drug free?
by Jonathan Snowden on Jan 7, 2010 10:57 AM EST up reply actions
Manny’s excuses about his rhythm being thrown off seems a bit weak.
I guess Floyd has a record of dodging fights, and there was always a bit of a perception that.
I’m sure Manny and his people fear that Floyd is just gonna keep coming up with reasons for the fight not to happen, but I feel like Manny should also bear some responsibility if this fight doesn’t happen.
Kinda late to discuss this aspect of negotiations, as there was a shit storm when the issues of testing were first brought up by Mayweather’s camp. Personally, I see nothing wrong with it, but apparently, Manny has a deathly fear of needles. Lame. Yeah. But, if it’s true, then I’m not suprised Manny fought the idea so much.
I have an insane fear of my knees bending backwards and breaking (kneebars are hard to watch for me) so if theres like, a slippery path I have to walk, that pops into my head and I either find an alternate route, or take my ass home. Yeah, it’s silly, but for me, it’s real, real enough that it can effect how I go about my personal life. If Manny dosen’t like needles, and for sure dosen’t want to go through dealing with that fear prior to the biggest fight of his career, I cannot blame him. There are plenty of other forms of drug testing that athletic commisions can handle, and do handle, regularly, and it’s good enough for the rest of the world.
"You guys are jerking eachother off with some pseudo deep bullshit." - Kid Nate
by Kaleb Kelchner on Jan 7, 2010 11:17 AM EST up reply actions
It’s only good enough for people who don’t care if the fighters use drugs. That’s why many fighters at the highest level of MMA are using.
by Jonathan Snowden on Jan 7, 2010 11:19 AM EST up reply actions
The big thing to me is the idea of “why now?” Floyd has been trying to stay undefeated every fight of his life. He KNEW this would be an issue. manny accepted testing within an amount of time that experts said would detect if he was using in a way that would impact the fight….but Mayweather’s camp was completely unwilling to be flexible.
Maybe Manny should step up and do random testing, but wait, there is another side to this: Whether Pacquiao’s refusal to agree to the tests are acceptable or not, what right does Mayweather and his camp have to decide whether the sport’s testing standards are sufficient? As our own poster Es Milano puts it: “Mayweather and Golden Boy are so deluded as to believe that the boxing world revolves around them. It is arrogance in the extreme. It is also disparaging to Pacquiao, a fighter who commands total respect from all corners of the sport for the entertainment that he provides and the respect he gives his opponents, and who has a spotless record when it comes to drug testing. It is more than likely a clear attempt from Mayweather to once again avoid a dangerous encounter. What a shame that the most talented fighter of the last 20 years lacks the respect and the courage to really test his skills.”
- Word.
Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
MMA Editor - SBNation.com
by Brent Brookhouse on Jan 7, 2010 11:39 AM EST up reply actions 2 recs
No real experts believe that the testing Manny wants is sufficient.
by Jonathan Snowden on Jan 7, 2010 11:51 AM EST up reply actions
That's ridiculous
manny accepted testing within an amount of time that experts said would detect if he was using in a way that would impact the fight
Cycling Steroids, HGH, EPO, Blood doping (i.e. centrifuge red blood cells)…All of these things are going to help and won’t be caught with the current regime…Now I’m not saying manny is doing these or that Floyd isn’t dodging, but that statement is ridiculous.
What the experts said was that if he were on something that would impact the fight…a blood test at 24 days would catch it combined with the post fight testing.
Now I’m not medical expert to verify or not. but that’s what was said.
Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
MMA Editor - SBNation.com
by Brent Brookhouse on Jan 7, 2010 12:24 PM EST up reply actions
Clearly WADA disagrees
I’m not disputing that some doctor said that…Nor is it necessary for me to lay out a detailed case on exactly the type of doping that could still be done, but there is a clear gold standard for testing…Its Olympic or maybe even TDF style testing…Some doctor saying otherwise doesn’t effectively refute that.
Only...
Those tests have never caught anyone, so I’m not sure the guys from WADA actually use the best information.
by Chris Barton on Jan 7, 2010 12:36 PM EST up reply actions
Tyler Hamilton
Was caught with in competition blood testing.
Dehydroepiandrosterone
Is what he got popped for, IIRC
by Chris Barton on Jan 7, 2010 12:40 PM EST up reply actions
His first suspension
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tyler_Hamilton
He was blood doping the first time…Basically taking blood centrifuging it and re-injecting the red blood cells to increase your red blood cell count. He didn’t use his own red blood cells which you can pick up ONLY through blood testing.
No one credible says this. Bob Arum and flunkies are not credible.
by Jonathan Snowden on Jan 7, 2010 1:35 PM EST up reply actions
To say they don’t care is kind of silly. Everyone cares (at least all the clean ones) but serious testing costs $$$, so until something remedies that, they’re shit out of luck.
"You guys are jerking eachother off with some pseudo deep bullshit." - Kid Nate
by Kaleb Kelchner on Jan 7, 2010 11:40 AM EST up reply actions
Somehow I think there is the money to perform drug tests for a fight that will bring in a hundred million dollars or more.
by Jonathan Snowden on Jan 7, 2010 11:52 AM EST up reply actions
Manny didn't refuse it.
Al Hayman had tried to convince the fighter to agree to the 24-day blood test proposal which Pacquiao had agreed to and which medical experts had said was more than sufficient to detect any traces of performance enhancing drugs, but they were turned down by Mayweather resulting in the fight being called off.
by Chris Barton on Jan 7, 2010 11:37 AM EST up reply actions
24 days is pretty funny.
http://www.bloodyelbow.com/2010/1/7/1238531/manny-cant-take-a-real-drug-test
by Jonathan Snowden on Jan 7, 2010 11:37 AM EST up reply actions
Why is 24 days funny?
Your link doesn’t seem to have much to do with 24 days… especially since doctors apparently said it was sufficient.
'He built his whole reputation as a waffle house chef. They’ve been serving him up ham and eggs with a side of canned tomatoes' - Don Frye on Fedor Emelianenko
by Well Read Idiot on Jan 7, 2010 11:40 AM EST up reply actions
I can probably find one who says I need marajuana for my hypertension if I look hard enough…
"I'm AJB and I endorse this nut-puncher."
It isn’t sufficient. To catch people using EPO or HGH you need random and regular tests and 24 days prior doesn’t cut it. Of course, Paq’s decisions about what testing could be allowed seems to be on a sliding scale. Originally he wouldn’t do it inside 30 until they found the footage from 24/7 of him being “needled” 15 days before the Hatton fight.
by Jonathan Snowden on Jan 7, 2010 11:50 AM EST up reply actions
oh that photo is 15 days before hatton fight?
now it makes more sense. cheers.
'He built his whole reputation as a waffle house chef. They’ve been serving him up ham and eggs with a side of canned tomatoes' - Don Frye on Fedor Emelianenko
by Well Read Idiot on Jan 7, 2010 11:51 AM EST up reply actions
No that photo is a man saying he is “afraid of needles” getting one of his many tats. There is apparently no need for the “media” to be skeptical of Manny, I guess because Floyd is a jerk…
by Jonathan Snowden on Jan 7, 2010 11:54 AM EST up reply actions
My thing is simple. Olympic style testing is what I want in combat sports. No doubt.
But right now that isn’t what we have and for Floyd to decided that he gets to accuse fighters of using and demand that they submit to his demands for testing outside the scope of what is mandated by the overseeing commission is kind of horseshit.
Floyd never cared about this kind of testing until now. Where was his concern for cleaning up the sport when he was showing up overweight to fight an already undersized JMM?
Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
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by Brent Brookhouse on Jan 7, 2010 12:07 PM EST up reply actions
If Manny is not using, he should prove it. I think it is the least Floyd or any other fighter deserves. Frankly, there are some UFC fighters and opponent would be smart to ask take additional tests as well.
We know that the State’s tests are laughable. Anyone with money to burn like these guys will use what they want and skate through. This is potentially a major step and shouldn’t be taken lightly just because Floyd is a jerk.
by Jonathan Snowden on Jan 7, 2010 12:13 PM EST up reply actions
But again, the whole point is that there really isn’t much reason to suspect Manny heading in. Floyd’s camp just feels that he “couldn’t really be that good” so they start demanding testing. I blame both sides here but I don’t exactly think it’s crazy for Manny to say “fuck you” and refuse to do it.
If a commission says to do it, okay. But it is not the fighters who determine the type of testing.
Floyd is wrong for suddenly pretending that he wants the sport to be cleaned up, Manny is wrong for just not dong it.
But to pretend that Floyd is some great man because he’s pulling a stunt that was designed TO upset Manny and his camp isn’t any more honest than saying that manny has nothing to prove.
Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
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by Brent Brookhouse on Jan 7, 2010 12:16 PM EST up reply actions
Why do we need to rely on comissions
Look everyone is to blame for baseball not instituting real testing earlier…People blame the players union for blocking testing so here you have the opposite…
Why should Floyd risk his reputation if he even suspects Manny is doping because Manny is “Scared of Needles”
Now of course I think Floyd is searching for excuses here or trying to get in Manny’s head as much as possible so I don’t really blame Manny, but to me its not like one person is to blame.
Well then we agree.
“I blame both sides here” and “Floyd is wrong for suddenly pretending that he wants the sport to be cleaned up, Manny is wrong for just not dong it.”
Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
MMA Editor - SBNation.com
by Brent Brookhouse on Jan 7, 2010 12:29 PM EST up reply actions
Can you explain to me how a post-fight blood test wouldn't prove...
that he wasn’t using for the fight, combined with with blood testing 24 days out and some random urine tests? The only thing I could really come up with was maybe blood doping that’d help him train harder.
At least to me, if that’s what you’re calling off the fight for, then Mayweather is more to blame than Manny.
Associate Writer - WindyCityGridiron.com
That’s the argument, that after the 24 he could blood dope to train harder and then stop doping a few days before the fight and avoid detection.
by Chris Barton on Jan 7, 2010 12:42 PM EST up reply actions
Testing 24 days prior is a joke. Testing day(s) after is a joke. The current testing procedures are beyond laughable. I don’t see how there can be much debate that Manny is trying to avoid rigorous testing. That should speak volumes.
by Jonathan Snowden on Jan 7, 2010 1:38 PM EST up reply actions
Apparently there is an argument...
You just don’t want to make it, considering you did your absolute best to blast Manny without actually answering my question.
I’m absolutely fine if you just want to give Money a hug and tell him it’s all going to be okay, but please don’t come around here acting like it’s some kind of crusade against PED if you can’t even point out something more substantial than blood doping for the express purpose of more cardio training that the suggest testing regime wouldn’t have caught?
Once again, and hopefully for the last time, what would the suggested testing regime not have caught except for the the slight possibility of blood doping for training purposes, and even that is sketchy?
Associate Writer - WindyCityGridiron.com
24 days out is a ludicrous time frame for testing for EPO. I don’t agree with the premise that there is only a “slight” possibility of blood doping, so I don’t really intend to answer that question. It is a rigged one. ;) I don’t agree that there aren’t other drugs that could be used in the two week period between the blood test and when you would need to cycle off many anabolics.
Beyond that, a scheduled drug test is in itself a bad call. There needs to be several random tests throughout the process.
by Jonathan Snowden on Jan 7, 2010 4:14 PM EST up reply actions
You do realize that testing...
isn’t to prevent cheating, but to detect and deter it right? Cheaters are going to cheat, and haters are going to hate.Blood testing up to 24 days prior, a blood test immediately after the fight, and random urine testing throughout should detect pretty much everything.
Associate Writer - WindyCityGridiron.com
Prove he is clean?
I could say the same about several MMA fighters. Thats not realistic.
EPO or HGH
EPO can now be detected with urine testing. The blood HGH test has NEVER caught someone using HGH…. The other problem with HGH testing, as I know it, is there is WAY more to it then just getting blood drawn. It’s a whore of a process where you have to fast 12 hours and then get blood drawn at intervals.
I’m not sure what the cut off is for detecting HGH, then again I don’t think anyone knows since the test NEVER catches anyone.
by Chris Barton on Jan 7, 2010 12:35 PM EST up reply actions
HGH Urine Testing
Is also now available, turns out. Since the Olympic blood test never caught anyone I’m pretty sure the new Urine Analysis couldn’t be worse.
Works for Manny, not Floyd.
by Chris Barton on Jan 7, 2010 12:42 PM EST up reply actions
but this isn’t all about hgh. The HGH test for urine doesn’t cancel out all the other things that the blood tests are used for.
What are they used for?
As far as anyone is talking, the blood test is for HGH and EPO because urine testing catches the rest. Well urine testing catches both of those now and the HGH testing has always been a joke.
The man who essentially beats all these designer drugs disagrees. A blood test is still the best way to detect PEDs and Manny is scared of that form of testing. For whatever reason, although fear of needles seems spurious at best….
by Jonathan Snowden on Jan 7, 2010 1:40 PM EST up reply actions
This makes no sense. The olympic blood testing hasn’t caught anyone for HGH. I don’t know who you’re talking about specifically but I’ve read quite a bit of literature about this today (one of the awesome benefits of this community) and there isn’t any evidence to suggest that this extra blood test will actually enhance the chances people will be caught with PEDs.
The HGH UA is new and so is the EPO one (I think). I can’t find any reason why those couldn’t be used to avoid the entire problem… other than Floyd has wanted out of this fight for a long time.
As far as anyone is talking, the blood test is for HGH and EPO because urine testing catches the rest. Well urine testing catches both of those now and the HGH testing has always been a joke.
Yes, but you are ignoring the fact that blood testing works for a variety of other things. A urine test for EPO and HGH doesn’t make blood tests useless.
He’s saying that the variety of other things that they catch can also be detected equally well through a urine test. This means that when looking at the results of a blood test and urine test, the results should correlate, with the sole exception being that the blood test reveals unusual levels of HGH and EPO.
Whether that’s true or not, I don’t know, I haven’t done the research personally, but that’s why he’s ignoring the other things.
Thank for clarifying
I couldn’t figure out what I wasn’t communicating right. Urine covers everything except those two (and now even those two can be covered) and if they go with UA it can be as random as they want with no balking from Mannys camp.
So ask the olympic comittee what they think
since he wanted olympic testing
'He built his whole reputation as a waffle house chef. They’ve been serving him up ham and eggs with a side of canned tomatoes' - Don Frye on Fedor Emelianenko
by Well Read Idiot on Jan 7, 2010 11:51 AM EST up reply actions
Mayweather history
Mayweather has a history of ducking fighters. Pacquiao has no history of steroids or even steroid links. Mayweather Sr, a convicted drug dealer, should not be even listened to when he makes baseless allegations.
by illmaticwarrior on Jan 7, 2010 12:14 PM EST reply actions
Yes, we all know Floyd isn’t the ideal poster-child for boxing..but that still doesn’t make the Manny not agreeing to Olympic-style testing any less odd or dubious.
Maybe he took it
as an insult from a drug dealer?
Mayweather Boycott
The arrogant coward needs to be humbled. He talks about all the money he has, yet he has irs problems. Why do people even want to watch this dude? He has to be one of the the most boring boxers in the world. I won’t pay 50 to see a guy run around the ring and decision fighters.
by illmaticwarrior on Jan 7, 2010 12:37 PM EST reply actions
Pacquiao superstition
The last time Pacquiao lost a fight was in 2005, when he had his blood drawn 2 days before the fight with Morales. He thinks it weakened him, and that is the main reason he wants to know when he’s supposed to get his blood drawn.
by illmaticwarrior on Jan 7, 2010 12:47 PM EST reply actions
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