Mixed Reviews for Herschel Walker's MMA Debut at Strikeforce: Miami
by Kid Nate on Jan 31, 2010 10:17 PM EST
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On the one hand, Kevin Iole accentuates the positive:
There aren’t too many 47-year-olds this side of Randy Couture who could do what the 1982 Heisman Trophy winner did Saturday in stopping Greg Nagy at 2:17 of the third round in his MMA debut.
Walker’s conditioning was superb and he was barely breathing hard when he got off Nagy after referee Troy Waugh had seen enough and stopped the bout. Contrast that with the performance of about half the cast of Season 10 of "The Ultimate Fighter," heavyweights who seemed to gas literally 30 or 45 seconds into the fight.
And points out why MMA fans should be grateful to Walker:
The promotion for the fight card – which featured three quality matches – was nearly all about Walker. He was on "The Howard Stern Show" and SportsCenter and in newspapers across the country.
Nearly all of those outlets would have ignored the card had Walker not been a part of it.
Sergio Non comes down more in the middle:
Herschel Walker proved he's no Johnnie Morton.
...
A Heisman Trophy winner who played professional football for 14 years, Walker is by far the most prominent NFL veteran to enter MMA. At 47, he's also the oldest.
The most recent season of The Ultimate Fighter featured several cast members who briefly appeared in the NFL before embarking on fighting careers. But prior to Walker, the most notable NFL veteran to try MMA was Morton, a former star wide receiver for the Detroit Lions who lasted just 38 seconds before being knocked out two and a half years ago in his only professional fight.
CBS Sport's Gregg Doyel takes a different view:
So if you're wondering -- no, Herschel Walker doesn't have a future in MMA. At 47, there simply isn't enough time to learn all the intricate skills required to fight at a high level, even for an athlete of Walker's ability. If he's content to fight similarly unskilled opponents and win on sheer athletic ability, he can do that, just as he did Saturday night. He won't draw nearly as much attention again, because the cat's out of the bag: Herschel Walker is a great athlete, but he's not a very good fighter. That's the truth as his career moves forward, although nobody in his camp, not even Walker, was willing to say afterward that his career would move forward. There was always the chance that his professional career would be a one-fight night, another chance for him to dabble.
For his sake, I hope that's the case. Walker is not someone you could possibly root against.
... After booing much of his fight, (the crowd) cheered as he left the cage.
And if they're like me, they were hoping it was the last time they watch a fight featuring Herschel Walker.
All in all, I think I come down somewhere closer to Doyel's view. Yeah Walker's fight held virtually no interest to me as an MMA fan and student of the sport, but he did draw new eyeballs to MMA. It's good that Strikeforce is playing up the spectacle aspects of the sport to draw attention, but it's better that they not overdo it.
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Get Marcus Jones to unretire.
He tackled Barry Sanders in open field. He should be able to take down Herschel Walker, right?
Or set up a four man tourney. Walker, Jones, Bob Sapp, and Wes Shivers. No freakshow.
"Someone is WRONG on the internet. What do you want me to do? LEAVE? Then they'll keep being wrong!"
-Randall Munroe
I think all these guys are right…even Iole. Walker probably needs 6 or 7 more fights before he can cone into his own and I don’t know too many people who think he will still be fighting 2 years from now. It’s nice to imagine Walker rounding out his skills and becoming a legit contender but its not exactly reality.
"It would appear that the strain was more than he could bear".- Doc Holliday
by MyFistYourFace on Jan 31, 2010 10:29 PM EST reply actions
For all that is made on how much good he did for the sport I have my doubts
1) I doubt a whole lot more people tuned in to see him fight. Maybe this card will do more than Evolution but it will probably do less than the Carano-Cyborg card.
2)He may have gotten people like Mike and Tony from PTI to tune in and maybe even others but the bigger question is will they care if Walker is not fighting
3) Sure he might have gotten ESPN to give more attention and CNN and newspapers to give some attention to mma but again does it make a difference if they dont cover the sport anymore.
I guess you could argue it does some good but if CNN shows Walker winning his mma debut but then if it never covers another mma story I just dont see how it was all that great.
I kinda worry about the person tuning in just for that; or just reading about the story and thinking this 47 year old football player came in and beat up an MMA guy no problem. Not knowing they had him fighting a can.
"A champion is someone who gets up when he can't." - Jack Dempsey
by JeremyShane on Jan 31, 2010 11:00 PM EST up reply actions
One of my friends who doesn’t like MMA wanted to see the Walker fight so I invited him over and he went absolutely bananas after the Manhoef-Lawler fight and he wanted to watch the Zaromski-Diaz fight too (I showed him Marius’ past three fights).
So overall he was pretty excited about what MMA can deliver. But he prob wouldn’t have been interested if he didn’t know Herschel Walker was fighting .
watchkalibrun.com
Some guys like the PTI guys may never care again. But let’s not discount how many people became fans of MMA when they tuned in to watch a reality show or when they tuned in to watch a former WWE champion fight in the UFC..etc.
The key is getting new people to turn on fights. Some of them will never watch again but if you can capture a few people with it? That’s pretty good.
Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
MMA Editor - SBNation.com
by Brent Brookhouse on Feb 1, 2010 8:53 AM EST up reply actions
I wish Nudge had put up a better fight or they had picked a better fighter for him. I don’t expect him to fight at top level, but would have liked to have seen a better fight.
He did look like he had good conditioning, which is great for his age though. Definitely an athlete still.
"A champion is someone who gets up when he can't." - Jack Dempsey
Very obvious Herschel was working with Cain. Excellent control, no finishing skills.
by xfreekx on Jan 31, 2010 11:01 PM EST reply actions 7 recs
I thought walker looked good. Have you guys ever watched someone fight for the first time? He skipped amateur fights and went pro, but he is still an amateur.
People will pay to watch him because the name, and Strikeforce will show that fight because the name, but in between all that, he did pretty damn well for a 47 year old beginner.
Sure glad Lesnar got his shit straightened out.
by judonerd on Jan 31, 2010 11:01 PM EST reply actions 2 recs
Well hopefully whoever tuned in to see Walker got to see Lawler KO Melvin.
Now that was a fight.
by HappyLittleTreez on Jan 31, 2010 11:13 PM EST reply actions
On Doyel.
Well, what can you expect from his first fight? Did anyone really expect a 214 pound 47 year old former football player to be a force in the division? This is arguing against the biggest friggin straw man there is.
My brother was a pretty damn good amateur boxer, where you fight only 9 minutes or so per fight, and a lot of his higher caliber opponents gassed. It’s really, really common amongst newcomers. Herschel didn’t, was always active, tried for a submission (!), controlled his (unimpressive) opponent the whole fight
Fact is, Herschel did about as well as could be reasonably expected for his first fight. I really don’t think he’ll go past two more fights, because there’s going to be a limited appetite for it. It wasn’t a great fight, though I still found it entertaining enough to see just because of the back story. I don’t think people will keep tuning in (if they even did last night) long
Walker match was on par with something seen on TUF 10 which got blasted for weak matches.
Cheap stunt matches are just that cheap. Respect to Walker for stepping up but no respect to Strikeforce for putting a fight on the main card that at most should have been on the undercard.
by snakecharmer1340 on Feb 1, 2010 12:15 AM EST reply actions
I’ve been listening to radio programs like the Jordan Breen show, and Breen is of the assumption that Showtime has more say in the matter than Strikeforce/Scott Coker as far as who gets on the main card and whatnot.
So Dana was right. Showtime has a ton of influence over matches.
That’s been the rumor for a while.
by snakecharmer1340 on Feb 1, 2010 2:56 AM EST up reply actions
Yes. Dana was right
Breen uses the Whitehead vs Randleman fight amongst others to show what Showtime, not Strikeforce wants. Also, when Strikeforce was just a regional promotion, they didn’t have these matchmaking problems and whatnot that they are having now. Another example is that Andre Galvao has been signed with Strikeforce for months, but he is going to have his first fight in Strikeforce this March; that is Showtime’s decision, not Coker’s/Strikeforce. It wouldn’t surprise me if Showtime, not Strikeforce, had A LOT more say in regards to Walker and where he should be on the card and who he should be fighting.
So, basically, to move up Strikeforce sold their soul?
This is the problem, over and over again, with whoever tries to take the short path to competing with the UFC. They sell out their medium and long term viability to jump up in competition in the short term.
I wonder how long till Strikeforce has a tomb stone next to Affliction, EXC, IFL, Bodog, etc…
already talking about setting up lashley for fedor. already threw rogers in before his time. wasting all his hard work. it’s great if you can afford one or two big names in every division, but what then? how much lying and disappointing do you have to do to convince your audience all those other fighters and fights matter. how many times can you convince an audience that cung le or scott smith matters, when they so clearly don’t?
The problem is that Showtime does not know MMA at all
Breen uses that Showtime wanted Whitehead vs Randleman as the first match in a main card of a Strikeforce card. Showtime felt that one was a former UFC champion, and the other was also in the UFC, so they figured that would get some eyeballs even though MMA fans in actuality don’t care for both of them. The Bobby Lashley opponent debacle was Showtime as well. Strikeforce and Coker have a track record when they were regional of doing things right, but with Showtime putting their input, they face more problems like having matches announced at the last minute.
I've been flat out telling you guys this was fact for months now...
Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
MMA Editor - SBNation.com
by Brent Brookhouse on Feb 1, 2010 8:54 AM EST up reply actions
However...
let’s not pretend that this would have been on the undercard had showtime not had a say.
Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
MMA Editor - SBNation.com
by Brent Brookhouse on Feb 1, 2010 8:55 AM EST up reply actions
Yeah, it’s kind of odd that people couldn’t figure this out when they signed Fedor yet Herschel Walker flipped the switch for them.
by ufc4 on Feb 1, 2010 10:46 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
TUF 10 Comparison
i don’t get how this comparison is valid. TUF is billed as a tourney where some people have lots of experience and some have virtually none, that’s the way it’s been for years now. how can you compare that, or even a fight at the finale on spike, to a fully advertised, standalone event on showtime?
Westbrook is better known.
Both guys were first round draft picks, but Westbrook was on the receiving end of one of the most famous Hail Mary’s plays in college football history, gained a lot of (bad) press in the NFL for assaulting a teammate, and played most of his pro ball with a much higher profile team (Redskins) than Morton did (Lions).
Strikeforce sucks . . .
Watching that show made me realize how much better the UFC is as a promotion. I just mean that in terms of quality of production, Strikeforce is B-grade compared to the UFC. It just looks like a regional event more than anything.
The shooting flames when a fighter gets ready to enter the ring is indicative of WWE lameness which would appeal to little kids or semi-retarded adults who can’t tell that it’s fake.
Mauro Renallo is an idiot. His voice is more annoying than Goldberg’s and he just has a lot of punch appeal. Did anyone notice when he said of Lashley that “people say he has the body of a Donis, but no, he’s THE Donis!” Well, when people use that phrase to refer to someone’s muscular body, they are comparing them to the body of Adonis, not Donis you frickin moron.
Shamrock loves using the word “literally” like so many other people in the US “entertainment” industry. It’s like the word of the week or something but its use has extended by a couple of years. Most of the time they use the word they mean “figuratively” anyway, although Shamrock didn’t trangress this that much, though I was too busy grinding my teeth to notice.
And really, as viewers, we don’t need Shamrock to circle the reach of a fighter when they’re discussing his attributes as though we can’t read it for ourselves. Jesus Christ!
"Mauro Renallo is an idiot."
This.
I cannot stand this guy, and any promotion or show using him instantly has an up hill fight with me. The words that came out of his mouth during the EXC Kimbo fiasco will forever damn him in my mind.
The thing that gets me about Mauro is how in love he is with his own vocabulary.
Guys who throw around $10 words when a 10 cent word would suffice annoy the shit out of me. Was it really necessary to say that Strikeforce has ‘transmogrified’ into a national promotion? Just because a word has a bunch of syllables doesn’t mean it is the most descriptive or appropriate word to use.
Owning a thesaurus doesn’t make you a great communicator Mauro. It just makes you sound like a pretentious ass.
Any word you have to hunt for in a thesaurus is the wrong word. There are no exceptions to this rule.
Stephen King
by Razreshat on Feb 1, 2010 8:40 AM EST up reply actions 2 recs
LOL
I think that is hilarious considering some of the writers on BE are guilty of that like a mo’ fo’…
I'm the kind of girl who loves to watch a GOOD fight!
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Join the DC Area UFC Meetup Group
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And
I’m completely and entirely unapologetic about it. It also won’t stop since it’s actually how I talk.
I think this whole line of argument is fucking sad. I live in a world where conversation of this sort is common and I then I have to tolerate a race to the bottom in communications when I read the comments around here.
Follow me on Twitter: @MMANation.
Completely not surprised by this reaction
Stay classy Luke.
I'm the kind of girl who loves to watch a GOOD fight!
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Is that a real quote? Well. Imma gonna steal it sir! And while I thank you for it, I will not refer back to your usage of it. Sorry.
"Marcus Davis is a plastic paddy"-Dan Hardy
by BlueberryMuffin on Feb 1, 2010 8:53 AM EST up reply actions
Hmm. Since I would have to hunt for “thesaurus” in a thesaurus, I guess I cannot refer this quote to anyone? Or can I??
"Any word you have to hunt for in a thesaurus is the wrong word. There are no exceptions to this rule"- Stephen King
by BlueberryMuffin on Feb 1, 2010 8:58 AM EST up reply actions
Depends on whether or not you’re trying to catch the largest possible audience from among a population that includes more people without high school diplomas than people with university degrees (as King is, and there isn’t anything wrong with that – he write pop fiction).
"I'm AJB and I endorse this nut-puncher."
by AJB on Feb 1, 2010 3:04 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
transmogrified is a word that regularly appears in calvin and hobbes comic strips. you know, for kids. just because you need to run to a thesaurus doesn’t need the rest of us do. although i agree, mauro is the worst of the bunch, sit him next to shamrock and all i can do is concentrate on quadros and try to contain the rage.
The thing that bugs me about Shamrock is when he says silly shit like “Nick’s punches don’t hurt” and “Cung’s kick’s don’t hurt”. Really Frank? Seriously? It looked like they hurt when those guys had you curling up into a ball to avoid any more abuse.
Also, it wouldn’t be a Frank post without a reference to …
Walker looked terrible and the guy he was up against looked like he had never been in a fight before. That fight was seriously embarrassing, it was like watching a robot fight a spaz when that shit hit the ground.
The mat is my church, the ground is my heaven, Jiu-Jitsu is my religion. And once you hit the ground you're in my world. My world is like the ocean, I’m like a shark and most people don't even know how to swim - Draculino
Bingo, all the hype and nothing to show for it. If they hadn’t talked up Walker like he was the second coming of Christ then I really wouldn’t of minded amateur hour.
The mat is my church, the ground is my heaven, Jiu-Jitsu is my religion. And once you hit the ground you're in my world. My world is like the ocean, I’m like a shark and most people don't even know how to swim - Draculino
by Patrick Tenney on Feb 1, 2010 10:00 AM EST up reply actions
an indication that he’s seen fights end, knows it is possible and can try to do it without an extremely generous and kind ref.
it shouldn’t take you 9 weeks to learn to attempt a rear naked choke when you have someones back. not being able to sink it in is forgiveable, striking the armpit cause you simply have no clue what to do next isn’t.
The best part about it is that Mauro or Frank was saying “Dave Camarillo must be proud right now” after Walker got the fight to the ground in what can only be explained as falling on his opponent. Meanwhile I was thinking “I hope Dave Camarillo isn’t watching this right now….”.
The mat is my church, the ground is my heaven, Jiu-Jitsu is my religion. And once you hit the ground you're in my world. My world is like the ocean, I’m like a shark and most people don't even know how to swim - Draculino
by Patrick Tenney on Feb 1, 2010 10:01 AM EST up reply actions
am i allowed to say i was right?
three good fights on this card? how about two. and let’s hope those walker and lashley fans stayed past the lashley and walker fights, because i saw nothing in those performances that would make a newbie want to stick around.
oh my gosh, i totally saw my boy herschel fight last night. TKO stoppage from strikes to the armpit! I’m hooked!
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