Wes Sims Didn't Get Enough Bobby Lashley in the Cage, Lashley Talking Title Shot
by Kid Nate on Jan 31, 2010 1:39 PM EST
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Apparently Wes Sims thought the ref pulled Bobby Lashley off him too early. From MMA Mania:
Wes Sims was hamming it up for just about everyone who would watch following his first round technical knockout loss to Bobby Lashley during the post fight press conference that never happened at Strikeforce: "Miami" tonight from the Bank Atlantic Center in Sunrise, Florida.
But all the quirky smiles and awkward tension went out the window when "The Whole Show" decided to push Lashley, turning what everyone thought was another act into potentially the second round that Sims felt he deserved.
...
Lashley and everyone else soon realized that he was actually, maybe, being serious. Lashley went to remove the bag that was on his back, indicating that he was ready to retaliate. Sims even encouraged him to take it off.
Fortunately the two were separated before they embarrassed themselves further.
Kelvin Hunt had this to say about the whole debacle:
I hate to say it, but I have to believe I was right when I said that Strikeforce should have canceled the Lashley/Sims fight. I mean Sims didn't come to fight, and we still don't know what Lashely brings to the table. They asked Lashley what this win proved and I don't think I ever heard an answer. Put Lashley in there with Mike Whitehead on the CBS card. It's time to stop wasting our time with this guy and let him fight someone that's halfway credible.
But despite his less than stunning performance against Sims, Lashley is ready for bigger and badder opponents. From an interview with Showtime Sports, via MMA Mania:
"Well, it's one of two things. Either they're going to allow me do it the way I wanna do it and build, or they're going to give me a title shot. Either or. I would like a title shot. I guess it's Overeem, he's the one who has the title right now. Him or Fedor, whoever. I wanted to take my time to build up but everyone's pushing me to get bigger and better fights so if I'm going to get bigger and better fights let's go for the best."
Lashley does seem to attract attention online, but we'll see if he actually draws viewers. The bigger question is how he'll do against more credible competition. It's too bad for Strikeforce that UFC signed away Paul Buentello. I think Buentello's one dimensional, but dangerous, boxing game would be a perfect test for Lashley.
But according to Josh Gross, Scott Coker is ready to throw Lashley considerably deeper into the pool:
Also one the card, heavyweight Bobby Lashley, a hyped fighter who many want to compare to Brock Lesnar because of his dominating physical appearance and professional wrestling ties, dominated an overmatched, undertrained Wes Sims to earn a stoppage. The performance did nothing to advance Lashley's career. That may come next, said Coker, who would like to see a bout between Lashley, now 5-0, and Brett Rogers.
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One of the funniest Mauro comments was that Sims was riding a three fight win streak. Later, he said that Sims did lose a match on TUF, but that wasn’t official and doesn’t really count. Now, I don’t even know if the win streak is even true. I’ll assume it is. If, in fact, you saw Sims’ fight on TUF, you know that he looked absolutely awful. He wasn’t a credible threat coming in though Lashley is certainly no Fedor.
It seems like centuries ago when Sims fought Mir. The broadcast team went way overboard all night. I find Wes Sims pretty funny at times. That is all I can say about him at this point.
I was kind of supportive of bringing Lashley along at a measured pace. I wanted to reserve judgment on him until he had a chance to develop, but this whole thing is getting a little ridiculous. Give him someone decent. Hell, if he wants to talk, give him Brett Rogers.
TUF doesn’t count.
Participating on TUF is considered exhibition fights, and don’t count towards a fighters pro record.
There you have it.
I realize that, doesn’t change the fact that we all saw him fight on the show and he lost.
by ufc4 on Jan 31, 2010 3:17 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Nope,
He won on TUF.
Just like he beat Frank Mir
by macrazy on Jan 31, 2010 3:24 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
If they were to book Lashley vs Rogers, I would be stoked to see it. Hopefully they do it.
by pRoXiMo on Jan 31, 2010 2:37 PM EST via mobile reply actions
I dunno
Staying on his feet against a top wrestler could be a real problem for Rogers. Of course he could very well KTFO Lashley before it gets that far.
Follow me on Twitter @KidNate
Is Lashley really as good of a wrestler as everyone makes him out to be though? I didn’t get to see his fight last night yet but everything I’ve heard about him before this makes it sound like he’s good but not great. And Rogers didn’t look completely lost on the ground against Fedor.
by ufc4 on Jan 31, 2010 3:20 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
I mean Sims didn’t come to fight
Well what the fuck did they expect? They booked the fight a week in advance, apparently it was too difficult for SF to find a can to fight Lashley a month ahead of time. Of course they barely announce their shows more than a month in advance so I guess this kind of crap is to be expected.
I said it before, if they booked Wes on Jan. 1 this is a good first fight in Strikeforce for Lashley. Booking it Jan 23rd is a joke.
And Brett Rogers? Did Lashley piss Coket off?
by John Nash on Jan 31, 2010 3:14 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
I Bet he didn't get enough in the cage...
That stoppage was weak.
I'm like PacMan fightin you silly kids... throw ya Hatton the ring, and get knocked outlike Ricky did.
lol.
It’s not often you see the fighter displaying the only common sense in regards to his career.
Too bad so many messageboards and blogs are so vocally pushing Lashley to fight competition above his caliber just because he’s famous.
There is a big difference between “better than wes sims” and “above his caliber.” He shouldn’t be fighting brock, but he shouldn’t be fighting people who have 0 chance of stopping a takedown or 0 chance of doing anything on their back.
Either give him a wrestler at the same level of experience as him in mma, or shit, I’d take a top bjj purple belt or a new brown belt very little mma training just so lashley won’t be looking for a takedown 1 second into the fight. Or if he does get that takedown he isn’t guaranteed victory.
he shouldn’t be fighting people above his caliber, but if he’s fighting someone who he can take down and kill in 3 minutes, he already did that 3 times before last night, there is absolutely no point to a fourth.
by Phildo on Jan 31, 2010 3:08 PM EST up reply actions 3 recs
Shane Del Rosario.
I’ll be more than happy to see that fight, and it’s not a mismatch. Two prospects in a fight to move up in competition. Give him a journeyman like Mike Kyle.
"Someone is WRONG on the internet. What do you want me to do? LEAVE? Then they'll keep being wrong!"
-Randall Munroe
Yep.
There’s two fighters we don’t quite know enough about who might be very tough competitors in the same weight class and the same promotion. Unless Lashley demands to be coddled some more, this is a compelling and likely competitive fight.
Plus I like Del Rosario and think he deserves to fight somebody who can give him a name. If he can beat Lashley, then maybe he gets Bigfoot as his top 20 test?
"Someone is WRONG on the internet. What do you want me to do? LEAVE? Then they'll keep being wrong!"
-Randall Munroe
My progression: either Whitehead, Kyle, or Humphries next. Or maybe Pruder if you want to market it to the prowrestling crowd. Then either Shane Del Rosario or Lavar Johnnson. If he wins he’s ready for a Rogers or Arlovski (or Tim Sylvia if he isn’t looking that impressive). If he can go 3-0 – which I doubt – you’re ready for a pretty marketable Fedor fight.
by John Nash on Jan 31, 2010 3:19 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
You just raised a question in my head...
Who do you think is stronger, Rogers or Lashley? I’m not convinced that Lashley’s muscles are good for much but show and Rogers seems to have built up a good amount of functional muscle.
As for Lashley vs. Arlovski, that would be a great battle of who looks scarier. I got Arlovski by R2 TKO (HE LOOKS LIKE LEONIDAS!).
Another option: Coker says he wants Overeem to get a fight in the US before Fedor to build his domestic hype train. Lashley brings eyes and says he’ll take a title shot. It will look like two comic book characters, and people will see the “big scary black man” character get kneed unconscious by a bigger, scarier, foreign man. That goliath should fight that pudgy Russian dude next!
"Someone is WRONG on the internet. What do you want me to do? LEAVE? Then they'll keep being wrong!"
-Randall Munroe
Is Bobby Lashley scary looking ‘cause he’s black? Because he looks pretty amiable to me.
Twitter: @Mike_Fagan_13
http://www.sackmikegoldberg.com
I use that phrase somewhat sarcastically and with a whole lot of disdain
because it is, historically, a valuable marketing tool to ignorant casual fans.
"Someone is WRONG on the internet. What do you want me to do? LEAVE? Then they'll keep being wrong!"
-Randall Munroe
Just one in the long list of reasons you’re at the top of my favorite commenter list.
Twitter: @Mike_Fagan_13
http://www.sackmikegoldberg.com
People thinking a guy who can’t pass Wes Sims’ guard will be ready for someone who is arguably the best fighter in the sport in a year or less is exactly what my post is about.
I agree
Here’s is my comment with my key caveats in bold:
My progression: either Whitehead, Kyle, or Humphries next. Or maybe Pruder if you want to market it to the prowrestling crowd. Then either Shane Del Rosario or Lavar Johnnson. If he wins he’s ready for a Rogers or Arlovski (or Tim Sylvia if he isn’t looking that impressive). If he can go 3-0 – which I doubt – you’re ready for a pretty marketable Fedor fight.
Notice I said if he wins and that If he can go 3-0 against that kind of competition they could make a marketable fight against Fedor (nothing about him winning).
Not trying to pick a semantics battle, or think you’re being a dick, I just want the record to show I am not some starry-eyed dreamer about Lashley’s abilities. But at the same time StrikeForce will only be getting returns on their investment when they can start marketing him as a potential contender.
My problem here is with Lashley:
Either they’re going to allow me do it the way I wanna do it and build, or they’re going to give me a title shot.He’s basically saying that either they allow him to hand pick cans or they give him Fedor/Overeem now. They pay him too much money to just have him fighting clowns and of course fans are going to bring up high level matches for him when he’s bringing them up himself. He was a top level amateur wrestler and is 5-0 in MMA, it’s about time he either proves himself against an actual competitive opponent or he just goes back to pro wrestling full time. You can’t let him book his own fights and talk about fighting for belts too. If he is ever going to be anything in this sport he has to start taking and winning hard fights that actually prove something.
Agreed 100%
I don’t think he’s ready, or that it would be fair, to put him against Rogers let alone Fedor right now. But he should be willing to take on a Scott Barrett-level opponent next and progress from there. If he loses a couple of times, at least StrikeForce will know he’s not the world beater some hope he is and he can either stick to it and get paid in comparison to his talent and drawing abilities or go back to prowrestling.
Where were you when Jon Jones was fighting Parker Parter and Moyses Gabin in his fifth and sixth fights? Or Jacare fighting Haim Gozali and Bill Vucick? Or Ben Askren fighting Matt Delanoit in August in his third fight?
Lashley has every right to progress as he sees fit.
Twitter: @Mike_Fagan_13
http://www.sackmikegoldberg.com
What was the pay difference?
When you are paying HUGE dollars you need a quicker turn around on your investment (see Lesnar).
Really I thought it was the promotions that booked the fights not the fighters. If he’s wanting to fight low level guys for minor companies like all the guys you mentioned did for those fights then perhaps he shouldn’t of signed a big money contract with a first tier MMA promotion. You can’t expect Strikeforce to subsidize Lashley working his way though regional level competition until he feels comfortable taking a step up to low level national level competitors all the while calling out Fedor and Overeem. No one is forcing him to get paid big money for fighting on National tv right now but the least he could do is fight competitive fights if he wants to be at that earning level in the sport.
What he earns should have little baring on the level of his competition. If Lashley can bring in eyeballs,even if he is fighting overmatched opponents, than he has the right to ask StrikeForce to pay him for that. In the long run it will probably hurt him and StrikeForce, but that will be their mistake. Speaking for myself I tend to not judge a fighter’s merits based on his pay.
If you want to push for a Bellator style payouts based on performance, tI can get behind that.
True
but the fights have to seem somewhat competitive otherwise Lashley starts to look like Marcus Gastineau rising through the HW ranks in boxing in the early 90’s.
I think he and StrikeForce would have been better served if they had him keep his original fight against Waterman, before coming into StrikeForce and getting Wes Sims on more than 8 days of notice. After that I can’t see why they can’t start having putting him against a Dan Christison or Travis Wiuff or fighters with comparable experience: Scott Barrett, Daniel Puder, or Joel Wyatt in Shine.
Or if they think he needs more polishing they could move him to the Challengers cards and let him get a couple more fights under his belt before moving up to their main cards. There would be less pressure that way, but I don’t think it would be worth what they’re paying him.
Do we know what he's getting paid?
I assume it’s less than the UFC would offer, but more lucrative since it allows him to collect TNA checks as well.
"Someone is WRONG on the internet. What do you want me to do? LEAVE? Then they'll keep being wrong!"
-Randall Munroe
I don't know
but I assume it is enough that StrikeForce wants to put him on their CBS cards and not their Challenger cards.
Thst actually makes some sense but I think Lashley would just be too big for him.
by ufc4 on Jan 31, 2010 3:22 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Would Mo’s speed adavantage cancel that out? I think Bobby would struggle to get him down to the ground.
Mark it 8 Dude.
by Earl Montclair on Jan 31, 2010 3:24 PM EST up reply actions
I would think King Mo would kill him. It would be like Randy versus Brock where Randy’s incredible wrestling ability negated Brock’s size advantage. Except in this scenario not only is Lashley’s wrestling crediantials nowhere near Brocks, but Brock could standup against Randy. Lashley would get pwned by Mo when on their feet.
by John Nash on Jan 31, 2010 3:29 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Plus even when Brock got cracked a little by Randy his shrugged it if with his “fire hydrant” head, to qoute Stephan Bonnar. Lashley has a tiny little jaw and I think Mo could KO him standing.
Mark it 8 Dude.
by Earl Montclair on Jan 31, 2010 3:32 PM EST up reply actions
You didn’t read the article from Sherdog the other day describing the science of knockouts. Big heads don’t protect you from knockouts at all.
by John Nash on Jan 31, 2010 3:36 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Thats what I get for trusting fuckin stoners. Thanks a lot Joe Rogan!
Mark it 8 Dude.
by Earl Montclair on Jan 31, 2010 3:37 PM EST up reply actions
King Mo wins by destruction. Superior (if unorthodox) striking, wrestling, and finishing skills.
Mo was the top 185 lb. wrestler in America for something like three years and placed second in the Olympic trials. Lashley had issues taking down a last-minute replacement Jason Guida.
by HarmlessNinja on Feb 1, 2010 6:26 AM EST up reply actions
This.
And King Mo, for as much as his standup needs work, is a much better striker than Lashley, and I would actually go out on a limb and say that while Lashley might be flat out “stronger”, that Mo brings much more power and explosiveness to the fight which would show in both his grappling and striking.
"I'm AJB and I endorse this nut-puncher."
by AJB on Feb 1, 2010 9:28 AM EST up reply actions
This is so fucking stupid.
Keep firing Assholes!
Mind numbing, tedious and ultimately self defeating.
by Ubernoober on Jan 31, 2010 3:51 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
I think Cormier would be better served taking the slow route and actually developing. He looked awfully green in his last fight. He is exactly the kind of prospects id like to see on their challengers shows as oppossed to what we usually get.
It was an early stoppage
The announcers noted that Sims “went limp” and therefore it was a good stoppage. What actually happened was Lashley swept out the knee that Sims was balanced on and he fell flat onto his belly.
I was saying the same thing. I feel for Sims, he was already pushing his way up as the ref stepped in. It’s easy for me to analyze it after the fact though.
by HarmlessNinja on Feb 1, 2010 6:29 AM EST up reply actions
Rematch
I’d be okay with a rematch between these two. If you give Sims enough time to train (and promote the fight) It could be a fight that’s 1) Worth it 2) A little more competitive.
by MMA42 on Jan 31, 2010 5:32 PM EST reply actions 2 recs
Wes Sims is never going to be much better, after 38 fights in a nine year career and you still don’t have the basics of a ground game or a take down defense then you probably never will.
Ya its weird Wes has not improved his takedown defense living on the street in Vegas. I know of some hobos and vagrants out there who have sick ground games. He should be much better.
Mark it 8 Dude.
by Earl Montclair on Jan 31, 2010 8:24 PM EST up reply actions
We’re missing out on the potential for a Bobby Lashley/Wes Sims trilogy.
Keep firing Assholes!
Mind numbing, tedious and ultimately self defeating.
I doubt he’s been living on the streets for the last 6 years but he isn’t any better than when he fought Frank Mir in 2004 (28 fights ago). I would point out the 6 weeks in the TUF house but then he was on Rampage’s team so I doubt he learned much there. Still the idea that if he had one training camp now he would all the sudden develop skills he has never had before and be able to keep Lashley from doing the only thing Lashley knows how to do is a bit of a stretch. Wes Sims vagrant living under a bridge or Wes Sims main card fighter with 30k in his pocket and 6 weeks of training camp aren’t going to change the fact that Bobby Lashley would just take him down and sit on him again. Still I guess as long as Strikeforce will pay him Sims should get as much as he can out of them, Wes Sims vs Fedor on CBS!!!!!
Lash "Strong"?
If he is so strong then why didn’t he engage in the test of strength with Wes at the start of the match? Now we will never know.
by jmooby on Jan 31, 2010 10:08 PM EST via mobile reply actions
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