Strikeforce: Miami Post-Fight Analysis and Thoughts
by Anton Tabuena on Jan 31, 2010 4:51 AM EST
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So Strikeforce: Miami ended, and aside from the usual production problems, awkward post-fight interviews, and other small things, it was still a pretty good night of fights which brought a lot of entertainment.
- Nick Diaz used his length well to keep an aggressive and dangerous Marius Zaromskis at bay, and though both guys ate a lot of shots to dish out their own, it was still a pretty impressive victory for the new Strikeforce welterweight champion. He probably now gets in the top 10, but that's if his urine test doesn't over turn another quality victory.
- Nick's first title defense will likely be against Jay Hieron, who's fight sadly was buried in the prelims. EA Sports MMA said they'd air it on their website, but that broadcast failed too, and at least they apologized. Showtime distanced themselves from EA shortly after.
- Speaking of prelims, the night was full of stoppages and finishes, but as usual, they still didn't find a way to televise any of the undercard bouts. Poor Jay Hieron, but he's a free agent now, so if he's really unsatisfied...
- Strikeforce seems to still have trouble with the proper timing of the bouts. They had to push back the Michael Byrnes vs David Zitnik's bout till after the main event "due to time constraints", but at least they didn't cancel it like they did for the Miller vs Davis fight.
- Marius Zaromskis, although he seemed to have a chance when he dropped Diaz, was still very much over matched and had trouble dealing with the 5 inch reach disadvantage. He will have a chance rebound from this loss when he defends his DREAM Welterweight title this March, probably against Kiyoshi Tamura.
- Cris Cyborg is scary. Strikeforce will soon run out of pretty girls to match up against her, and the rest will probably try to drop to 135 lbs now. They really need that 145 lb women's tourney to build up a new challenger for her, though I'd prefer if Gina Carano fights the winner of that for a title shot.
- Marloes Coenen showed a ton of heart, but I think she should go back down at 135 lbs and join the upcoming tourney.
- Herchel Walker despite looking extremely stiff, flat footed, and resembled nothing like a Taekwondo Black belt, had a pretty successful debut. He showed decent power, wrestling skills, cardio and rock hard abs that you surely wouldn't see from the average 47-year-old. If his post fight interview was any indication, it looks like he might still be interested in getting another MMA fight.
- Herschel Walker wasn't the only Black Belt making his MMA debut that night. Former Power Ranger, Jason David Frank won by omoplata in his first amateur MMA fight. Like Herschel, he also has a black belt, weighs 215, started MMA late (he's 36), and also has a strong following. Instead of feeding Herschel another unknown and unskilled guy, why not match them both up? Embrace the freakshow-ish nature his fights, and lets have an entertaining bout between two guys who are serious about the sport, and are on a similar experience and skill level.
- Greg "Nudge" needs to go back to smaller shows, or maybe even think about taking up a different sport.
- Bobby Lashley finished a very out of shape Wes Sims in the least surprising outcome of the night. He says he's willing to take a step up in competition. A match against a blown up Mike Whitehead might be the perfect opponent for him.
- Wes Sims had a tough task going in to a fight on short notice, but at least he got paid $30,000, and he already has another fight scheduled against Tim Sylvia. Not bad for someone literally living on the streets just a few months ago.
- Robbie Lawler put up a miracle-Scott-Smith-from-the-brink-of-defeat-ish Knockout that shattered the dreams of our own Leland Roling. If 'Ruthless' indeed wants to bolt for the UFC after his contract, I think this fight made him deserve it. He's probably going to have a hard time walking for a few days though.
- Melvin Manhoef, although he got caught as he got a bit sloppy trying to finish off Lawler, did gain a lot of new fans that night. Bouts against Cung Le or Scott Smith could be a real interesting second fight for him.
- Get rid of that entrance ramp. It's cheesy. It only works for guys like King Mo, but they didn't show his entrance anyway, so what's the point?
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Oh, and one more thing.
Good job on whoever designed the Strikeforce ID/lanyards. Now they have a picture of GSP with the strikeforce brand on his neck.
Great night of fights
Lashley needs to step up in competetion.
Lawler won, regardless of it was a lucky punch or not. Nobody remembers who was winning the fight you remember who won.
Walker did well in his debut. That being said if they put him in there with anybody with skill I will seriously fear for his safety.
Diaz and Cyborg both won and looked impressive. Good for both.
Post fight interviews are just getting weird. From Quadros seeming to care more about Lashley’s and Diaz’s wins then they did to Walker telling the fans not to boo fighters and Brett Rogers shouting out his friends when he wasnt even fighting and I didnt even understand the point of interviewing Rex Ryan(does he even know Walker?).
Last thing is I hate not knowing when the next Strikeforce big event is. I know there is Challenger’s but I wish they could have cards done in advance. If they are having an event in March they should be plugging it and the CBS April card should be getting plugs in to.
Really? Don’t take this personally, but rather as a response to all who thought this card was anything above mediocre.
I’m a big MMA fan, not just UFC, and this card almost bored us to death. While I will still remain interested in Strikeforce, several of the people watching with me, are probably lost as viewers.
Wes Sims is terrible, and I don’t want to hear about no training camp. If you are a fighter looking for a break, you stay in shape and prepared to take opportunities that come along, such as this. It’s too bad, because there probably was a fighter out there who did just that and got passed over for Sims name. Sims hasn’t been even decent in quite awhile and he needs to rethink what he is doing.
Lashley is unimpressive. I don’t want to hear another word about Overeem’s physique as long as Lashley is in the sport. That is a lot of push ups! I think even a mid level fighter destroys Lashley.
While the Walker fight became somewhat tedious, I can live with a fight like that on a good card. Unfortunately this wasn’t a good card. Nagy looked like a local amateur and maybe not that good, but that is ok here. As for the stoppage, laying on the mat and not doing anything is absolutely cause for a stoppage.
Lawler’s punch was anything but lucky. He kept his hands high, blocked a lot of punches and when Melvin slipped up, bam. Prior to that, it was completely one-sided and it felt like you watching someone get killed.
Nothing against Coenen, but she was out of her league. The problem is, who is in Cyborg’s league?
Zaromskis was game, but overmatched by Diaz’s size. I actually have no problem with this fight and it was by far the best of the night.
The production, announcing, etc., stunk. I used to be forgiving, but SF seems to be making zero improvements in this area,
The problem is this, I usually hate when a great night of fights comes to an end, but as a group, we were not entertained most of the night and couldn’t wait for the fights to be over. This isn’t a good thing when you are trying to make your place in a crowded MMA market.
I usually try not to be negative about promotions and fighters, but in this case, it has to be said.
by BJJDenver on Jan 31, 2010 11:45 AM EST up reply actions 8 recs
I agree with you on the Lawler punch. Definetly bad defense on Maneof’s part. As for the fights I watched it with seven other people and everyone seemed to enjoy them
Thank god the lucky punch theory is finally quieting down
And thank you Anton for not making that statement AND for pointing out Manhoefs part in the outcome.
I'll give Manhoef this much...
he does the best Rick Flair impersonation post KO-punch on the planet.
agreed...
My GF woke up from her sleep (sick, after returning home from the hospital) and had the presence of mind to ask me wtf was wrong with camera angles, and the announcing… She even asked me why it took so long to see a replay of a questionable stoppage (i forget which one)…
It could’ve been worse, but had the presentation been better it would’ve been more enjoyable.
I'm like PacMan fightin you silly kids... throw ya Hatton the ring, and get knocked outlike Ricky did.
lol.
My thoughts exactly.
You have to be the man... you have to be very, like, alpha male with her. You know? Decide what you do and everything. So, show her who's the boss, you know? - GSP
Melvin owns the ramp. Stop hatin'.
I specializes in grammar fail.
by a tommy point on Jan 31, 2010 5:43 AM EST reply actions 1 recs
I think I'm going to cancel my Showtime subscription
So where do Strikeforce go from here? They don’t seem to have enough compelling fights in the future to really justify my subscription, their best fighters (Shields, Henderson, that Russian guy whatshisname, Mousasasasasssassi) will be on CBS and their fighters with name recognition to casual fans are fighting nobodies or has-beens. The Lashley fight really soured my mood. Sims looks like he just swung by to fight after spend the last of his TUF stipend on a two day Golden Corral binge and all Ranallo and friends could do was mention 6’8, 6’8, 6’8. I’m glad there’s nobody’s come up with a drinking game tied to the Strikeforce commentary team or I’d die of liver failure before the co-main event.
And yeah, bush league production values. The ramp (for some reason reminds me of the Running Man), the booty girls swarming around the ring (but at least they’re not go-go dancing on camera any more!), the somewhat disinterested ring announcer and OH MY GOD I really dislike Mauro Ranallo and Stephen Quadros’ announcing.
I finish beers at 1:55.
Excuse my poor grammar, I have been drinking
I needed it after watching amateur hour with Herschel Walker. Good job on looking way better than I could possibly hope to and beating a guy with a few more fights and experience than you, but can someone remind me why this was main card worthy?
I finish beers at 1:55.
....
Because it made people WATCH the event?
Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
MMA Editor - SBNation.com
by Brent Brookhouse on Jan 31, 2010 10:08 AM EST up reply actions
Somehow, that always escapes detection
Ratings are kind of important to television executives, even on channels that don’t sell ads.
"The moment you stop thinking you're the best, it's time for you to get out the game." -'King' Mo Lawal
Since when did the sport of MMA get these purist? Baseball and hockey have a small part of there fan bases that are purists and it really turns a lot of people off. The Herschel Walker fight most likely put 15 to 20 % more eyes on the fight due to the hype from ESPN
I would guess even more. Take Lashley and Walker off this card and it gets 300,000 viewers. With those two “freakshows” I am guessing around 500,000 people tuned in. That’s a pretty big difference.
by John Nash on Jan 31, 2010 12:59 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
While we all know why they did it(or at least should get it), that doesn’t mean we should just condone it happening in any event. I think perhaps this is getting into a strikeforce vs UFC type internet debacle but honestly any time there is a hint of the UFC doing this they get chewed o by fans too.
And if the UFC booked this fight they showed be chewed out
The UFC makes $400 million a year and owns 85-90% of the market, while StrikeForce brought in around $30 million last year. They’re a basically unknown promotion that desperately needs exposure, so I have no problem holding them to a different standard.
by John Nash on Jan 31, 2010 1:23 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
But you can’t hold them to a different standard when they are trying to compete with Zuffa. You could when they were holding shows in San Jose every 6 months, but now that they have a budget and tv deal and are nationalizing, you need to hold them to the same standard.
We hold the WEC to the same standards and they bring in less revenue yearly than Strikeforce.
twitter.com/thisredengine
by Matthew Roth on Jan 31, 2010 1:35 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Hmm. Strange that everyone doesn’t want to compare the UFC payscale to other major sports because the UFC has been around only 20 years to the 70+ years of the other major league sports But as soon as a regional mma promotion goes national, we should think that within 9 months they should compared to the standard bearer of mma? Now, isn’t that a double standard?
by John Nash on Jan 31, 2010 2:07 PM EST via mobile up reply actions 3 recs
Not at all, Lets face it Striekforce is trying to be a top level national MMA promotion and compete with the UFC, of course there are going to be comparisons. If they don’t like it they can always go back to being a regional promotion on 2 am on NBC. If your going to be putting on nationally broadcast shows (in the CBS show case to larger audiences than the UFC normally gets)then of course your going to be compared to your direct competition.
Comparing the UFC to other completely unrelated sports is light year different from comparing two companies directly competing for market share in the exact same sport.
On much of what they do, I have no problem comparing them. To capture eyes they definitely have to work on their production values, because they come across as second rate to the UFC. Not booking fights at least a month in advance comes across as disorganized. There are numerous items on my list.
But at the same time they desperately need to get exposure to grow their market share so that they at least have a chance at competing, well then, I can give them some slack for booking on the main card a famous name – who takes the sport seriously – in a gloried amateur bout. Do you also want to burden them with the handicap of having to put on cards as meaningful as the UFCs when they don’t have the revenue or audience yet to support them?
What I’m saying is that the second you nationalize your organization you open yourself up to more scrutiny because you are directly trying to compete. Signing Fedor and Dan Henderson were coups but you can’t use the excuse of revenue as a reason not to hold them to the same standard. And I’m not even referring to the booking. The actual production is atrocious with the slanted camera angles. These aren’t local bouts, these are shows with an actual camera crew and an actual budget. Do I think Strikeforce shows potential? Yes, they put on very entertaining bouts. But I also feel that they are sacrificing long term growth potential for short term gain. Having Lashley fight Wes Sims who wasn’t training at all is a farce. These bouts should be booked with enough time to give fighters legitimate camps. Coker has been doing this long enough to know this.
twitter.com/thisredengine
by Matthew Roth on Jan 31, 2010 5:43 PM EST up reply actions
On a lot of that I agree. Especially the Lashley fight. If they would have announced Wes on Jan 1, that would have been a decent first fight in StrikeForce for him. As it was, it turned into a joke.
It’s all the moralizing over Herschell that I find peculiar. If the UFC did it, of course it would be a joke. They’re a known commodity supposedly representing the top league of mma. StrikeForce makes no such claim to being number one. They are just looking to carve a niche out in the market. And they need eyeballs to compete, yet people want to handicap them by saying they can’t put on fights that attract attention.
I have no problem with the Walker fight due to his post fight comments. My only gripe is that he’s essentially an amateur who got close to top billing because of his fame outside of MMA. We all had the same gripe with Kimbo being the headliner for EXC. When there are more deserving fights on the card, it’s hard for a fan not to complain about having more important fights passed over.
Strikeforce has the same problems EXC had in that they are now a major org just because of the showtime/cbs deal. If they put this card on without tv, no one would complain. When you nationalize you tend to have people finding issues with things you do wrong. They just have a lot to improve upon and if they can’t sign more top 10 talent away from Zuffa, their matchups will get stale and people will stop tuning in.
twitter.com/thisredengine
by Matthew Roth on Jan 31, 2010 6:02 PM EST up reply actions
A couple of big differences between Walker and Kimbo:
1) Walker was on the main card on Showtime, Kimbo was the main event on CBS.
2) Walker and StrikeForce admit that he’s a novice and that he isn’t going to be going against any top fighters anytime soon or actually, ever. Elite tried to market Kimbo as a legitimate top fighter and that his wins against Tank and Megapunk where sold as confirmation of this.
3) On the Elite XC CBS shows, Kimbo – and maybe Gina – was the show. People tuned into see him and cared little for that a great Daley/Shields fight was on the same card. Walker is booked in the middle of a card as a way to promote StrikeForce and introduce fans to their other fighters. In this sense, he is really helping the other fighters out.
4) In addition Walker is coming across as a great spokesperson for the sport to those with little exposure to it. The myth of Kimbo was he learned to fight serving time in prison (this is false, of course) and underground bare-knuckle brawls.
If Striekforce wants to be a meaningful player in the sport then they need to bring sports meaning to what they are showing. Yea Walker bring’s eyeballs in the short term but just what is he offering to the company to help them grow? I mean you could book Brad Pitt vs a wild bear on a MMA show and draw tens of millions of eyeballs to your promotion but would that actually help you build your reputation as a legitimate sport? See the goal isn’t just to get eyeballs now it’s to build something that will last (the lesson that should of been learned from EliteXC). Once you get branded as the guys who do the celebrity MMA fights then you are stuck with that (of course that may be fine for Showtime). They have to be really careful with this.
Of course if they just want to use Walker as a MMA ambassador then they could get just as much mileage out of putting him on the announce team as from letting him fight.
I don’t care how much either makes, that’s their problem not mine, I’m going to call it as I see it. If it comes down to being what works for Strikeforce then this is what other companies will start doing too and the actual sport will suffer for it. The Walker fight is one thing but there is no reason at all to be making freak show fights out of Lashley’s bouts, just give him a competitive opponent. Just as many casual fans would of tuned in to see Bobby Lashley fight a competitive fight and they would of got more out of it as far as building their company for the long run too.
by who me on Jan 31, 2010 1:36 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I won’t argue with you if you want to complain about the Lashley fight. If they would have booked Wes January 1 I would have been happy with it, but what ended up with was inexcusable.
by John Nash on Jan 31, 2010 1:59 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
The Yankees Payroll
is consistently top of the league… But when it comes time for Baseball Tonight to compare their rotation or starting lineup to The Devil Rays when they face off you won’t get tears from me.
I'm like PacMan fightin you silly kids... throw ya Hatton the ring, and get knocked outlike Ricky did.
lol.
Why all the ramp hate?
I like ramps.
But I’m right with you on showtime, I basically subscribed to see Fedor, and all his and Mousasi’s fights are going to be on CBS anyway. Also, Showtime’s movie selection is ridiculously bad (Dexter is a great show though).
by WanderleiNoooooo! on Jan 31, 2010 10:30 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I like ramp.
I blog at Ridiculous Upside. I know you'll love it.
by Scott Schroeder on Jan 31, 2010 1:46 PM EST up reply actions
Are you just naming things in the room
And saying you love them, Brick?
"Someone is WRONG on the internet. What do you want me to do? LEAVE? Then they'll keep being wrong!"
-Randall Munroe
by pdl on Jan 31, 2010 2:51 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
No way do they match Manhoef with Cung Le. Le’s game is picking apart low-to-mid level strikers and Manhoef is too good for that. Le’s coming off a loss to a hand-picked journeyman that was there to make him look good. I’d think they’d drag out that Greg Nagy guy again before putting Le in with a real standup guy like Manhoef.
he's a heavyweight..
why on earth would le fight him
"he's the best punchy face man in the buisness"
by blubber_guard on Jan 31, 2010 8:29 AM EST up reply actions
The fights were good
But it was very underwhelming live for some reason. The generic entrance music made it seem kind of cheap, lots of lulls in action,the crowd was pretty flat most of the night. Other than the obvious fights the biggest pop from the crowd came from seeing Hendo, GSP, Alves, and Rogers. They all got huge pops. Mousasi got a nice ovation but not huge. Lots of local ATT fighters on the undercard. Rex Ryan got so much heat it’s not even funny.
"I will do nothing lightly. When I walk, I will walk heavily. When I fight, I will fight with conviction. When I speak, I will speak strongly. When I love, I will love with everything"
Gifs
So will people be posting gifts or whitemare and manhoef getting KTFO? Zaromskis will come back better. He just needs to set up a GOOD ground game and somehow develop a better chin. But not bad honestly…
Speaking of which
why was Diaz’s win a TKO and not a KO. One punch dropped the guy, he missed with the second and the ref backed him away. Looks like a KO to me. And man, that left hook as Manhoef was falling was nasty. I was just saying “man he’s going to kill the Ruthless one.” then bam, overhand right, left hookish uppercut for the finish.
by black dragon on Jan 31, 2010 7:52 PM EST up reply actions
Keep the ramp
Mayham and King Mo are enough to keep the ramp. Over time I’m sure other fighters will come up with interesting entrances. It makes for a little more fun. Try to steal some of the pagentry from Japan.
i guess this is the heart of the debate, i think the more they keep themselves separate from WWE and the various shady japanese orgs the better. there is still an impression amongst a lot of the public that these are just worked fights anyway, why exacerbate the problem adding meaningless pomp to the product? let guys like mayhem and king mo do stuff if they really want to, but don’t start expecting fighters with better things on their minds to come up with increasingly more ridiculous entrances just to get a few seconds more face time.
there is still an impression amongst a lot of the public that these are just worked fights anyway
Really? I thought the general public impression was that MMA is that thing where they kill each other.
i’ve been asked several times and i once read an interview with jesse ventura about brock and the journalist felt it necessary to ask if the fights were fixed or not. add in to that the japanese fights that have been rumored to be worked and it may not be an extremely prevalent view, but i think there are still plenty of people around the world who believe it.
Why does pageantry / fancy entrances = WWE? Last time I went to a basketball game I recall plenty of hype on the introductions.
by WanderleiNoooooo! on Jan 31, 2010 10:34 AM EST up reply actions
Because this isn’t team basketball it’s a fight sport.
Lets face it MMA is what pro wrestling would be if pro wrestling was a real sport instead of sports entertainment. In the US there is a real stigma against pro wrestling that doesn’t exist in Japan, there are also different expectations in the US and Japan for this kind of stuff. In the US if you are wanting to push that you are a real sport then you want to appear more like boxing in set up and as little like pro wrestling as possible. In Japan you want to put as much pro wrestling theatrics in there as you can.
Yeah, I lived in Japan during the Pride years and that’s when I got into MMA, so for me I really sort of expect some presentation. The UFC puts on great fights but lacks flair.
by WanderleiNoooooo! on Jan 31, 2010 10:44 AM EST up reply actions
When I used to watch a lot of boxing I can remember everyone really getting into the ring entrances. Prince Naseem and Camacho come to mind.
i guess i’m pretty alone on this so i’ll just defend or explain my view.
i came from being a pro wrestling fan. one of the things that attracted me most about the ufc was that virtually everything unnecessary was cut away. no rules, no silliness, just two men in a cage proving who was better. while pro wrestling was a show, mma was a sport. the purest sport on earth. covering it with pretty lasers and explosions seemed not only unnecessary but oppositional to everything it stood for.
then in pride you had the lasers and the titantrons and so on. you also had a ridiculous number worked fights, set up fights and freak show fights. it was my every nightmare of what mma could turn in to and sadly this caused me to miss out on a lot of legendary fights.
essentially i take mma seriously and i want it to be taken seriously. i can’t justify the effect this would have on the overall marketability of the product, but i’d much rather it was treated with the gravitas of an olympic event, instead of the pomp and nonsense of a superbowl or wrestlemania. i just don’t think it needs it, and it wastes time. show me a prelim, i’d much rather see that than some mid-carders desperate attempt to get a little more face time.
by K Krush on Jan 31, 2010 11:02 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I see where you’re coming from. I’m just a sucker for anything flashes and shoots out smoke.
by WanderleiNoooooo! on Jan 31, 2010 11:16 AM EST up reply actions
if strikeforce wants to put on a special the night before an event and let mayhem and king mo do dance routines and zippy stand up acts, that’s more than fine with me. but as it’s unrelated to the reason i tuned in to the fight event, i don’t care to see it at the fight event, especially if that means i see less fights in the fight event.
I got that part the first time
I’m just saying’ a) if you want the fights treated like this straight-faced somber deal then every show on the planet must bum you out and b) the Olympics actually has lots of pageantry.
Pageantry and theatrics can be two very separate things. The Olympics starts out with an opening ceremony but they don’t introduce every athlete before every event with Pyrotechnics and a laser light show. The Olympics just isn’t a real comparison for what happens at MMA events, heck what happens at most sports isn’t either.
living in Japan from 2004-2006 totally spoiled me when it comes to a good MMA show
by SilverNBlackZach! on Jan 31, 2010 11:15 AM EST up reply actions
and this is probably another area where i differ from a lot of fans. i have almost no desire to see these live. everytime i go to a live sporting i wish i was watching at home where instead of watching from one poor vantage point i get to see the best of like 8 different, close-up camera angles, and instead of getting commentary from the loudest/drunkest asshole near me i get rogan, bas, that guy from wec who isn’t frank mir etc.
I feel you on the going to the live event thing. I’m a Redskins season ticket holder and I always enjoy the game it self more on away weeks but I really enjoy the “event” feeling of going to the game. I just feel like there would be more growth in the sport if casual fans were treated to an event like they put on in Pride or Dream. I would love to see a UFC event sell out a bigger venue
Lawler to UFC?
If ‘Ruthless’ indeed wants to bolt for the UFC after his contract, I think this fight made him deserve it.
Is this a rumor, I don’t recall coming across anything about him going to the UFC.
The fights were very good, but as many have said, they really need to get rid of the pyro and entrance ramp. They use generic music, don’t have any close up shots, so what’s the point?
by FightCardHammer on Jan 31, 2010 10:12 AM EST reply actions
on beatdown last night they said he was really trying to not end up in SF after Elite died, but he couldn’t get out of the contract. That + getting dicked around in december and totally no-selling it when they asked him about shields after the fight lead me to believe he wants out asap.
by Phildo on Jan 31, 2010 10:37 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
other than he won, i don’t see how that was a good showing for walker. it doesn’t fit in to any of the categories of “entertaining fights” that i’ve ever heard of. close? no. technical? no. heated? no. was there any tension? no. it was just a muscular, awkward looking man, awkwardly trying to hold down a noticeably much weaker man and finally getting the tko due to strikes to the armpit. would the public prefer to watch someone they know learn the basics on the job rather than someone they don’t who can already do things they’ve never thought of?
Poor Jay Hieron, but he’s a free agent now, so if he’s really unsatisfied…
He’s a free agent after only two fights in Strikeforce?
Haha, at one point I thought that Lawler might KO himself with his own flying leg…
by dancingChicken on Jan 31, 2010 10:50 AM EST reply actions 1 recs
did my post dissapear?
I'm like PacMan fightin you silly kids... throw ya Hatton the ring, and get knocked outlike Ricky did.
lol.
Showtime didn’t broadcast it.
by dancingChicken on Jan 31, 2010 10:53 AM EST up reply actions 7 recs
Jason David Frank vs. Herchel
Come on….thats not a good match up. Jason needs to cut to MW or WW, he is not a true LHW.
"If your going to come on then come on!" - Harold Howard
Leland's reaction after the Manhoef fight.
You have to be the man... you have to be very, like, alpha male with her. You know? Decide what you do and everything. So, show her who's the boss, you know? - GSP
Not impressed with Manhoef
once he had Lawler’s right leg messed up and Robbie was checking the leg-kicks by swinging his leg way up in the air after impact, each time lawler swung his leg up, Melvin had openings for right hooks, especially right after the last leg kick before Robbie tagged him. If Manhoef doesn’t hurt his opponent quickly, he misses a lot of opportunities and also leaves himself open quite a bit
Goldie: "Michael Jordan-esque in his grappling skills is Travis Lutter."
Rogan: "No, no he's not. No."
I think if maybe he made it to the end of the round his corner might have pointed it out. He definetly gave that fight away. Robbie may not have made it out for the next round with the way he was limping
also a good point. The punch itself wasn’t lucky (it was good technique), but Lawler was damn lucky he got that in there before the end of the round
Goldie: "Michael Jordan-esque in his grappling skills is Travis Lutter."
Rogan: "No, no he's not. No."
Embarrasing Night for Dream
After the beating their Welterweight Champ took and Manhoef getting KTFO, Dream is probably second guessing why they are even co-promoting. Theres no way they send their golden boy Aoki to America to get destroyed by Melendez and have another championship belt get illegitimized
I was wondering about this as well. I don’t want to go overboard with a caught up in the moment reaction but if this trend continues it won’t be good for DREAM.
Just BE.
If the Japanese-based fighters don't get into weight cutting..
This will continue, Zaromskis should be fighting at LW. Also see Ishida.
by WanderleiNoooooo! on Jan 31, 2010 4:27 PM EST up reply actions
The one big thing that came out of this show for me was wondering who is actually running the show now. Strikeforce has went from a very interesting regional company to being EliteXC part two. It just makes me wonder at how much influence Showtime has in these shows because it’s really starting to look like the same old same old from guys who don’t know MMA and that’s not what I expect out of Strikeforce.
by who me on Jan 31, 2010 12:13 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
True, and they have a LOT of influence. Showtime is basically a bunch of idiots, lol.
Seriously, one of my friends that fought on Showtime for them, let’s call him “Boom”, almost didn’t fight because of the network guys. They have big say in who fights, what the match up is and the contract negotiations for guys brought in specifically to fight on Showtime. This is basically a bunch of guys that dont know mma, wielding a lot of power over Strikeforce.
Something that needs mentioning is the camera angles. It honestly felt like the cameramen were standing on inclines and just never got a straight shot. This ended up making me dizzy. This is a huge deal for me because if you’re Showtime, you have the funds to get proper production, and this seemed very amature. HDnet has better production with no where near the funding.
As for the fights, they set up two squashes which bothered me. The Lashley/Sims match bothered me more because Lashley/Strikeforce keeps going back to the “he only has four fights” excuse. If that’s the case then don’t book him on the main card. You can’t play this both ways. Walker surprised me and I do think that if he did start MMA 10 years ago he’d be incredible. Just a natural athlete.
If you take anything from the Lawler fight it’s that nothing is over till it’s over. And also that Lawler is most likely bolting for the UFC. Which means that after the Hendo/Shields fight there isn’t another challenger.
Cyborg is a beast and unless Erin Toughill can beat her, there isn’t another challenger. At this point I don’t even want to think about a Carano/Cyborg II.
Diaz is a great talent but this fight showed how thin the WW division is outside of the UFC. Zaromskis was boarderline top 10 after the Dream tournament and he was completely outclassed. Now with word that Sakurai is getting the next shot over Heiron who’s now a free agent, I wouldn’t be surprised if Jay leaves for Zuffa. Diaz has no other challengers after Sakurai.
twitter.com/thisredengine
Zuffa will probably still sign him to limit challengers. Best way to kill a belt is to take away the challengers. No top 10 welter weight is leaving the UFC so Strikeforce needs to bring in talent from Japan and/or bring along their prospects (they have some pretty good ones) a little fast.
twitter.com/thisredengine
by Matthew Roth on Jan 31, 2010 12:36 PM EST up reply actions
BJJDenver emphasized alot of the stuff that I didn’t like about this event above. The only fights that really interested me going in where Manhoef/Lawler and the women’s title bout. Lawler really showed a ton of patience and heart. Manhoef looked damn impressive up until the point where he dropped his hands and Lawler tagged him. Coenen really put up a good fight, but she was just physically overmatched. Cyborg looked even better than she did against Carano. Her ability to mix decent technique with raw power makes her a tough fight for any woman out there.
The rest of the fights on the main card turned out about like I would have guessed. They were one-sided. Diaz was just too big for Zaromskis though he fought hard. Walker is impressive for his age and relative inexperience, but that’s about it. Nagy and Sims never seemed to have a chance in there matches. Who the hell knows about Lashley. He hasn’t fought anyone. My guess is that he’d get beaten if he ever does given his current abilities.
You know it’s one thing to make mismatches. What’s worse, however, is Strikeforce’s seeming inability to have fights set weeks in advance. I just hate that. These are big shows they’re putting on on Showtime and CBS. Get it together. Generally speaking, a guy brought in at the last minute is going to be overmatched due to lack of training and/or not very good, anyway. The UFC can better pull it off if pressed due to their deep pool of talent though they usually don’t unless injuries muck things up.
I just don’t like Mauro and Frank Shamrock. They’re just not my cup of tea. If you’d never watched football, you’d think Herschel Walker was the be all and end all of professional sports. As a long-time Cowboy’s fan, I’m quite aware that he was very good in his day, but come on. I’ll always be in his debt for helping to fund three championships with all the Cowboy’s received when they traded him.
I’m not real high on Strikeforce at the moment.
by Cannon Jacques on Jan 31, 2010 12:54 PM EST reply actions 2 recs
I really agree with you on the mismatches. The UFC has had some mismatches, but a couple of the fights were absolutely ridiculous. Lashley / Sims was just sad. The only up side really is Sims got paid a bunch of money, and hopefully he got to keep most of it cause he probably didn’t have to pay a team of coaches. As for the Walker fight, I know he’s a beginner, but Nagy did absolutely nothing. Nothing. It was three rounds of just… I dunno. Shields looks like a rock star next to that one.
You have to be the man... you have to be very, like, alpha male with her. You know? Decide what you do and everything. So, show her who's the boss, you know? - GSP
Utter mismatches are a great way to dazzle MMA fans. Particularly if it happens in Japan.
See:
Crocop vs Dos Caras Jr
Wanderlei Silva vs [nameless Japanese undersized victims]
Megareem vs Any MMA opponent 2009-2010
Keep firing Assholes!
Mind numbing, tedious and ultimately self defeating.
Japanese fans have very different expectations from the sport than US fans do. You don’t have to look any farther than Bob Sapp for that, he’s the biggest star in the history of the sport in Japan but can’t even get a mainstream bout in the US.
Not to mention the fact that none of these mismatches did anything to “dazzle” fans. Yeah, Diaz did put on a show, but, damn, he had a major size advantage that made me feel like the fight shouldn’t have ever been close. Hell, Zaromskis, with all he had to overcome, had Diaz in trouble for a bit. Lashley and Walker certainly don’t equal Cro Cop or Wand.
by Cannon Jacques on Jan 31, 2010 2:02 PM EST up reply actions
Couple of things
1. My gut feeling is that the reason that Strikeforce doesn’t announce their next event until the 11th hour is to avoid any potential UFC “Counter-programming”.
2. Sometimes promotions will put guys in with opponents that should dominate as a way of hyping said fighter going forward. When the UFC gives Bill Mahood to Forrest Griffin or Can X to Roger Huerta. No backlash. yet somehow Strikeforce is wrong for it?
3. I like the ramp. It’s awesome when they do the entrances in Dream. American MMA can use more of that sort of thing.
4. Far too many haters in general on MMA message boards. God forbid an MMA organization doesn’t ask for 50 bucks of your money to show you their content. If you don’t like Strikeforce, then don’t watch it.
" Tell me something Steve, How does a guy from Puerto Rico loose a ball in the Sun? "
I think:
1 – That may well be a part of it, but Strikeforce is also co-promoting and using a bunch of fighters that it doesn’t have under exclusive or long-term contract. Logistics is the biggest issue in trying to get their cards set because they want to announce a card far in advance (like the UFC does) without the stable of ready-and-waiting fighters to do so. Japanese promotions also tend to announce fights at the last minue, and it certainly has nothing to do with trying to avoid counter-programming. At this points there’s more similarities between Strikeforce and DREAM or WVR than with the UFC.
2 – I said this in a different post, but I’ll say it again. None of the mismatches offered to Griffin, Huerta, Velasquez, or anyone else for that matter are on the egregious level of Lashley-Sims (or Lashley-Ambriz, for that matter) or Walker-Random Guy because the UFC simply doesn’t have that level of “can” on their roster. That’s not to say that the UFC doesn’t make matches to make someone look good or to make the likelihood of victory very probable; they absolutely do. But it’s a matter of degrees and there’s about 180 of them between some of the matches this weekend and what the UFC considers “favourable treatment”.
3 – I like it too, always have, but for some reason it seems not to fly with North American audiences. Someone suggested it’s the similarity to pro-wrestling; I’m not sure. For whatever reason, those of us who like it seem to be in the minority.
4 – It’s also been said before, but Showtime isn’t free. Then there’s the double bind of either don’t watch Strikeforce and get called a “ZUFFA nuthugger” with the implication that you’re not a “real FAN of MMA”, or watch something that you know you won’t enjoy and, predictably, comment on the shortcomings. Besides, there WERE MAJOR FLAWS with this past Strikeforce show. People pointing that out aren’t haters; they’re just right.
"I'm AJB and I endorse this nut-puncher."
by AJB on Feb 1, 2010 2:57 PM EST up reply actions
fair enough
I just get the feeling sometimes that people troll the boards simply to bitch about all things non-ufc.
I love the UFC and the Cards that they put on
I also love that other promotions are being put on cheaper/free TV and giving more fighters a venue to make a living and gain exposure.
Too many people cannot see the forrest through the trees in these matters. If we want MMA to grow and attract top level athletes. There needs to be spots for these guys to be able to make a living out of the sport.
" Tell me something Steve, How does a guy from Puerto Rico loose a ball in the Sun? "
The thing that sticks out in my mind is how much these late fight bookings is costing Strikeforce. Paying Wes Sims $30,000 for a fight doesn’t bode well for their bottom line. I’m guessing if they would have booked Wes for that fight against Lashley 2 months ago he would have took the fight for around $5,000.
Also a 6 figure payday for Herschel Walker makes no sense to me. I know he brought extra eyeballs but it’s not like Herschel Walker has a long time future in Strikeforce. Just my opinion but Strikeforce should be reserving paydays that large to guys that are going to be cornerstones of their organization.
Just BE.
by mattman73 on Jan 31, 2010 1:27 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
Early bookings
Will just ensure that the UFC has more time to set up a counter programming card.
" Tell me something Steve, How does a guy from Puerto Rico loose a ball in the Sun? "
Hey Anton,
When you say Diaz is probably top ten do you mean top ten welterweight like a reasonable person or are you talking top ten pound for pound like Mauro “What the hell am I saying” Ranallo?
Giving Shogun his props. I had the fight 48-47 Machida but Shogun put up a monumental performance and I am honored to have seen it in person.
Liar.
No reasonable person still likes Brandon Vera.
Keep firing Assholes!
Mind numbing, tedious and ultimately self defeating.
Im confused about all this Zaromskis mismatch talk.
Plenty of people here had picked him, and in my mind it was a touch fight for both men. It turned out that they both gave each other hell, Diaz just gave more of it. It was a pretty competitive fight on paper and nobody got totally outclassed. Each fighter was put in dangerous situations.
The only thing I have to ask is if Zaromskis would have done better if the fight were in a ring.
"Someone is WRONG on the internet. What do you want me to do? LEAVE? Then they'll keep being wrong!"
-Randall Munroe
From what I’ve seen, Zaromskis is a great striker. Very few people can go up against top fighters who are much bigger and prevail. There are guys like BJ Penn and Dan Henderson who have the skills to make it work. Diaz had a significant reach advantage over a middleweight in Frank Shamrock. That advantage plus that of height and just overall size was very obvious against Zaromskis. I agree that Zaromskis gave Diaz hell at times, but he was at a huge disadvantage due to size. It was just a bad matchup for him.
by Cannon Jacques on Jan 31, 2010 4:02 PM EST up reply actions
Koscheck vs. Rumble had the same challenges.
That’s the thing with weight classes, they reduce the size mismatch but can never totally eliminate it and that’s part of the sport. Look at Joseph Benavidez. Cruz doesn’t outweigh him that much, but is built differently. Rani Yahya had a similar build, and Benavidez learned how to deal with length and get inside.
The other thing to note is the disadvantages of size. It was apparent early on that Zaromskis was much quicker to the punch and his handspeed spelled trouble. When he got inside he was throwing about 3 punches before Diaz could get one off, largely due to his smaller size. Diaz adjusted and nullified that.
While it was a tough matchup for Zaromskis, it wasn’t an easy one for Diaz either. I picked Nick, but didn’t have enough faith to bet anything more than shots with a friend.
"Someone is WRONG on the internet. What do you want me to do? LEAVE? Then they'll keep being wrong!"
-Randall Munroe
Just waaaay too much handsome.
twitter.com/thisredengine
by Matthew Roth on Feb 1, 2010 12:21 AM EST up reply actions
one of these guys wants to fight at heavyweight
i would have thought its the one on the left looking at the photo
'He built his whole reputation as a waffle house chef. They’ve been serving him up ham and eggs with a side of canned tomatoes' - Don Frye on Fedor Emelianenko
by Well Read Idiot on Feb 1, 2010 9:26 AM EST up reply actions
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