Dana White in Talks With M-1 Global - "I Want Fedor, I Like Mousasi Too"
by Nick Thomas on Jan 3, 2010 6:07 PM EST
in MMA News
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PrintAccording to an interview with sherdog.com (at the 4:50 min mark):
Sherdog: You mentioned talking to M-1 recently, more recent than anyone thought. What's going on there?
Dana White - "Listen, I think there's a million different ways to cut deals. Believe me, I want Fedor more than the people that are yapping that they want him in the UFC. And I like Mousasi too. So I would love to have them both in the UFC. And there's a lot of different ways to cut a deal".
... "There's only one way to find out how Fedor would do in the UFC. Get his ass over here and let's get him in there and get him fighting. I could do the same thing with Mousasi. I like Mousasi, I don't know how he'd do over here. There's a lot of really good guys here. It's not like fighting in other promotions. They are not deep enough. There are not enough good fighters over there for them to challenge. There is here, that's what makes it fun and interesting".
HT: sherdog.com
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not a bad idea and zuffa definetly has the cash for it but the problem would be the rumored russian mob connections that m1 has
The only thing they’d be buying is the fighters, it’s not like they’d be merging businesses.
by ufc4 on Jan 3, 2010 6:33 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
More like…Dana White Talks M-1 Global.
by MMASuPreMaCy on Jan 3, 2010 6:12 PM EST reply actions 2 recs
Seriously...
Can the columnists here stop using misleading headlines? It is clearly unsubstantiated.
by H8ff0000 on Jan 3, 2010 7:23 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
No, he didn’t. He says there are ways to cut a deal with them. That’s it. He didn’t say anything to the extent of ’I’m talking to them’.
You mentioned talking to M-1 recently
"You hit too hard, too hard, too hard..."
by spectaa on Jan 3, 2010 8:18 PM EST up reply actions 6 recs
Supremacy is the absolute king of unsubstantiated statements, posts, and headlines.
Guillotine.
by iiowyn on Jan 3, 2010 9:09 PM EST up reply actions 4 recs
harsh… he’s got some redeeming aspects too
by cagefightonacid on Jan 4, 2010 10:14 PM EST up reply actions
Dana wants Fedor in the UFC, only problem is that Fedor does not want Fedor in the UFC… so it ain’t happening…
cagar é uma filosofia profunda...
a merda bate na água e a água bate na bunda.
by Orcus on Jan 3, 2010 6:13 PM EST reply actions 2 recs
good point… I don’t think fedor has any desire to ‘prove himself’, make more money or really want anything that the ufc has to offer.
by cagefightonacid on Jan 3, 2010 6:38 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
agreed, he does not value money (there is nothing wrong with that), I don’t see him in the UFC.
cagar é uma filosofia profunda...
a merda bate na água e a água bate na bunda.
i think he did until he became wealthy.
by cagefightonacid on Jan 3, 2010 7:12 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
But do teh people who tell him what's best for him like money?
I have a feeling his agent may feel differently…
"The moment you stop thinking you're the best, it's time for you to get out the game." -'King' Mo Lawal
but that’s the problem, Fedor has said he trusts M1 to make calls regarding his future without consulting him, and what they decide is fine with him. He puts his faith blindly in people like Vadim. Now, I’m not saying Dana is any better, but I’ll be damned if any one fighter would put Dana in trusted of their future as Fedor does in Vadim.
cagar é uma filosofia profunda...
a merda bate na água e a água bate na bunda.
So if Dana makes Vadim happy...
Fedor’s in UFC, yes?
"The moment you stop thinking you're the best, it's time for you to get out the game." -'King' Mo Lawal
well if you put it that way..
pretty damn much, yep thats it
by B-A-N-A-N-A-S on Jan 3, 2010 8:17 PM EST up reply actions
Dana's a smart guy
I bet he finds a way to make Vadim happy.
"The moment you stop thinking you're the best, it's time for you to get out the game." -'King' Mo Lawal
Dana saying he wants fighters
and thinks he has good, competitive match ups for them and is unsure of how they’d handle a deep division? This is good promoter talk. Knocks the competition in a sporting sense by critiquing the divisions depth, not shit talking the talents of high level fighters. More respectful, achieves the same goal. I approve. Good on you, Dana White.
"Someone is WRONG on the internet. What do you want me to do? LEAVE? Then they'll keep being wrong!"
-Randall Munroe
by pdl on Jan 3, 2010 6:14 PM EST reply actions 8 recs
it’s not only is it promoter talk, but it’s the truth also. There is no denying the HW and LHW divisions are deeper in the UFC than SF at the moment.
cagar é uma filosofia profunda...
a merda bate na água e a água bate na bunda.
LHW is a blowout
but HW is arguable. UFC has some really overvalued guys. Don’t want to get into the argument, not sure which side I’m on anyways, but it’s not a gigantic leap in quality either way.
"Someone is WRONG on the internet. What do you want me to do? LEAVE? Then they'll keep being wrong!"
-Randall Munroe
by pdl on Jan 3, 2010 6:30 PM EST up reply actions
I don’t blame you, if I was on that side of the argument I wouldn’t wanna get into it either.
by ufc4 on Jan 3, 2010 6:32 PM EST via mobile up reply actions 5 recs
It’s part of the problem.
Actual skill of the HW division? You could make an argument for SF. Known fighters that have been exposed to the public (and the ability to publicize and sell fights in the future) you have to lean towards the UFC.
i gotta disagree with that sure rogers and fedor are real good but werdum is a limited and borderline top 10 heavy, bigfoot silva i personally think is terrible, and overeem hasnt fought there in over 2 years so he barely counts as someone on their roster
by milk72 on Jan 3, 2010 6:35 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I didn’t say that wasn’t the case, all I’m saying is that when you take into account how marketable the fighters are and each orgs ability to market the fights in the future, UFC wins in a landslide. It all depends on how you rate Nog, Dos Santos, Cain and Carwin. If you think they’re for real, UFC wins, if you think they aren’t for real, it’s not a big gap.
Either way, it’s much easier to market the fights in the UFC division.
by Phildo on Jan 3, 2010 6:37 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
So who is better than Mir/Carwin/Santos/Nog/Cain/Brock as far as depth is concerned?
Keep firing Assholes!
It’s as if you fell down a flight of stairs, then logged onto the internet.
by Ubernoober on Jan 3, 2010 6:34 PM EST up reply actions 7 recs
SF has two great HW’s besides Fedor, that is Werdum and Overeem (and maybe Rogers too). That’s it. one guy lost in the UFC already (but I wish he wasn’t cut), one guy likes to fight overseas and not in the US, and the other has questionable ground game…
cagar é uma filosofia profunda...
a merda bate na água e a água bate na bunda.
by Orcus on Jan 3, 2010 6:36 PM EST up reply actions 3 recs
You call someone that got cut by the UFC great?
Go get that bread, Kimbo Slice. - Mike Fagan
by SouthAlaBamaRampage on Jan 3, 2010 6:37 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
that fight was over too quick, he got caught and went down, it wasn’t a beating. He shouldn’t have got cut, if he were to lose again than maybe, but not after one loss!
cagar é uma filosofia profunda...
a merda bate na água e a água bate na bunda.
Generally people are “cut” because they cannot hang with the fighters in the organization. Gurgel was cut. Henderson and Werdum were let go.
Guillotine.
by iiowyn on Jan 3, 2010 6:52 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
Exactly. People use “cut” in a misleading way all the time to discredit fighters unfairly. For example, you’ll hear that Andrei Arlovski was “cut” or “washed out” of the UFC, despite leaving on a 3-fight win streak.
by JRN on Jan 3, 2010 7:55 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
he was cut, he didn’t even know he was out of the UFC until he saw it online. The money thing was between the UFC and his sister.
cagar é uma filosofia profunda...
a merda bate na água e a água bate na bunda.
no doubt, but it wasn’t a beating, just a well placed punch. I’m as big JDS fan as most, I’m not trying to take away from his win, I’m just saying that Werdum shouldn’t have been let go of the UFC (damn iiowyn, cut just sounds better damn it!).
cagar é uma filosofia profunda...
a merda bate na água e a água bate na bunda.
agreed
although back then, he was not well known.
cagar é uma filosofia profunda...
a merda bate na água e a água bate na bunda.
I remember watching him hit pads in Dana’s Vlog and thinking “holy shit”, then watching the betting lines take a major shift.
Guillotine.
It didn’t help when Werdum weighed in at 250 or 255 or whatever.
Twitter: @Mike_Fagan_13
http://www.sackmikegoldberg.com
Only 4 of Roger’s opponents have their own Wikipedia pages.
Fedor
Arlovski
Murphy
Thompson
Keep firing Assholes!
It’s as if you fell down a flight of stairs, then logged onto the internet.
Just like Carwin.
Exactly the same.
"Someone is WRONG on the internet. What do you want me to do? LEAVE? Then they'll keep being wrong!"
-Randall Munroe
by pdl on Jan 3, 2010 6:40 PM EST up reply actions
Carwin has beat all 4 of his wikipedia victims :P
Keep firing Assholes!
It’s as if you fell down a flight of stairs, then logged onto the internet.
Ok...
but Fedor is that loss. Carwin beat Gonzaga, Rogers beat Arlovski. One major relevant win for each, and Carwin’s is against a top ten while they were still top 10.
"Someone is WRONG on the internet. What do you want me to do? LEAVE? Then they'll keep being wrong!"
-Randall Munroe
by pdl on Jan 3, 2010 6:42 PM EST up reply actions
Arlovski was FUBARed right from the getgo and Gonzaga was coming off a few wins.
Keep firing Assholes!
It’s as if you fell down a flight of stairs, then logged onto the internet.
by Ubernoober on Jan 3, 2010 6:42 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
that’s crazy! even I have my own wikipedia page!
by CliChe Guevara on Jan 3, 2010 6:40 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
ha!
I thought I deleted that from human history, I’ll remember to do it tonight!
cagar é uma filosofia profunda...
a merda bate na água e a água bate na bunda.
haha, had to give him some special powers to gun down the dragon
cagar é uma filosofia profunda...
a merda bate na água e a água bate na bunda.
lol
are you becoming a Shogun fan, brother?
cagar é uma filosofia profunda...
a merda bate na água e a água bate na bunda.
exactly… ufc hw is the deepest hw div of all the orgs easily
by cagefightonacid on Jan 3, 2010 6:36 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Cain is real overvalued.
I’m not going into the nitty gritty, don’t care enough, but the challenges at the top aren’t too significantly different.
"Someone is WRONG on the internet. What do you want me to do? LEAVE? Then they'll keep being wrong!"
-Randall Munroe
by pdl on Jan 3, 2010 6:38 PM EST up reply actions
Cain is like a really really big LW with a cast iron head. Beats anyone in SF not named Fedor.
Keep firing Assholes!
It’s as if you fell down a flight of stairs, then logged onto the internet.
by Ubernoober on Jan 3, 2010 6:41 PM EST up reply actions 4 recs
Let’s lineup the ufc’s top 15 hw’s against SF’s- do they even have 15 hw’s?
by ufc4 on Jan 3, 2010 6:42 PM EST via mobile up reply actions 4 recs
I'm not debating this.
because I don’t care. My point is that at the top, both of them have credible challenges for Fedor. The difference in UFC and SF heavyweights is NOTHING like the difference between their LHWs.
And the top 15 of each org? Who cares. The number 15 in UFC isn’t gonna fight Brock, the number 15 in SF won’t fight either Fedor or Overeem. Doesn’t matter right now.
"Someone is WRONG on the internet. What do you want me to do? LEAVE? Then they'll keep being wrong!"
-Randall Munroe
by pdl on Jan 3, 2010 6:46 PM EST up reply actions
I’ll be happy to see a showdown between Fedor and Overeem, and also Werdum. But besides that, there’s not much interest from me (maybe a tiny interest in a rematch with Rogers). But in the UFC, there is a bunch of interesting match ups. Can’t deny that.
cagar é uma filosofia profunda...
a merda bate na água e a água bate na bunda.
by Orcus on Jan 3, 2010 6:48 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
There are fights in both orgs I'm very interested in seeing.
I sure as hell wouldn’t complain if Fedor doesn’t fight Overeem and fights Brock instead. I would have been just as happy with either a Carwin or Rogers fight for him, as I see them being very similar challenges and similarly credentialed. I see each org as having 2-3 compelling fights for him in the next year or two. Beyond that, there’s no point in speculating since the landscape changes so much over even a few months.
"Someone is WRONG on the internet. What do you want me to do? LEAVE? Then they'll keep being wrong!"
-Randall Munroe
by pdl on Jan 3, 2010 6:53 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
I want to see all of them fight under one organization personally.
Guillotine.
by iiowyn on Jan 3, 2010 6:54 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
As soon as fighters have a way to protect their rights
via a union or other form of collective bargaining, I’ll agree with you. I do not like monopolization of labor with no protections for the employed/contracted.
"Someone is WRONG on the internet. What do you want me to do? LEAVE? Then they'll keep being wrong!"
-Randall Munroe
by pdl on Jan 3, 2010 6:58 PM EST up reply actions
This is strictly my fan perspective. I hope the sport can get there and avoid the numerous pitfalls that lead to messes like how boxing ended up.
Guillotine.
by iiowyn on Jan 3, 2010 7:01 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Totally agree.
I like a two org approach though. One US, one Japan. Call me crazy, I think it’s just that I love each approach so much. Now, if Zuffa bought DREAM but left the product alone, only using the assets to set up super-fights I’d be happy. As long as there’s the aforementioned protection for athlete’s rights. With Dana banning sponsors for assumed or imagined personal slights and demanding lifetime image rights… I just can’t support anybody wanting a lack of competition, be it foreign or domestic. It’s necessary to pressure the UFC grow into becoming a better organization.
"Someone is WRONG on the internet. What do you want me to do? LEAVE? Then they'll keep being wrong!"
-Randall Munroe
by pdl on Jan 3, 2010 7:12 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Zuffa purchase of DREAM will
NEVER happen. DREAM is the same guys that did PRIDE, and they absolutely fucked Dana at the drive-through when he bought them out the last time. All he got was the video library and zero chance to run an organization in Japan due to all the poison pills and hip-deep shit they’d brought in to wreck the thing.
There is no such thing as innocence, only degrees of guilt.
After Fedor beets Werdum his next challenger is Overeem. While we’re waiting for that fight Dream runs it’s 8 man HW tourney:
Antonio Silva
Josh Barnett
Andrei Arlovski
Tim Sylvia
Sergei Kharitonov
Brett Rogers
Fabricio Werdum
Pedro Rizzo
Who ever comes out of that tourney gets the next crack at Fedor. And probably deserves it.
I hope it’s Sergei, that dude’s been MIA for a too long, time to make a great re-appearance.
cagar é uma filosofia profunda...
a merda bate na água e a água bate na bunda.
shit
I thought it was for real, it’s too late, I better get to bed!
cagar é uma filosofia profunda...
a merda bate na água e a água bate na bunda.
Not your fault, the comments is the place where you can just post random lists of fighters and pretend that they are in the plans of every org that isn’t zuffa and expect people to believe it.
Give him more credit than that, he knows it wasn't real
I just made up a hypothetical tournament to show that there would be a way to build up another opponent for Fedor that orcus would be interested in watching. I have no clue who he’ll face or what Strikeforce is up to that is why you come up with hypothetical to offer a potential alternative.
Call the tournament “Fighting Fedor”
Keep firing Assholes!
It’s as if you fell down a flight of stairs, then logged onto the internet.
The comment you originally replied to is which is DEEPER, that’s why I brought up comparing the top 15.
by ufc4 on Jan 3, 2010 7:12 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
And right above what you replied to
I said the challenges “at the top” were comparable. Top 15 in any particular organization is not a representative field of who will get a matchup a top P4P fighter and is pretty irrelevant in discussions of elite fighters. The only exception is the UFC LHW division, where everyone in the top 15 is pretty freakin’ dangerous against anybody on any night. UFC WW division is the only other division that comes close to having 15 really relevant fighters.
"Someone is WRONG on the internet. What do you want me to do? LEAVE? Then they'll keep being wrong!"
-Randall Munroe
by pdl on Jan 3, 2010 7:25 PM EST up reply actions
I think I can safely say that Frank Mir, Junir dos Santos, Shane Carwin, Antonio Rodrigo Nogueira, and Cain Velasquez would beat any HW in SF other than Fedor 90% of the time.
by ufc4 on Jan 3, 2010 8:07 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Just Strikeforce or their whole potential roster? I think Josh Barnett takes Mir. People will laugh because everyone wants to mock Josh, but I think that would end in a grappling match and Barnett as proven himself the better grappler. Werdum potentially the same. And Carwin? He’s still a big question mark to me. Big Nog too. I think we have to see if he’s really back to contender class. Otherwise I would tend to agree.
That assumes that Barnett can piss clean.
Bolts from the Blue // "I have got to be the most boring GM in the league." - A.J. Smith
Bloody Elbow // " looks like your comment violated rule #4. and it’s a heck of a rule, rule #4" - Kid Nate
You people… guy fails a drug test multiple time and some people will never let him forget it.
by John Nash on Jan 3, 2010 8:55 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
Let him fight in Japan
and I’ll watch every single one.
"Someone is WRONG on the internet. What do you want me to do? LEAVE? Then they'll keep being wrong!"
-Randall Munroe
by pdl on Jan 3, 2010 8:57 PM EST up reply actions
seriously
I’m all for giving a few more chances, I say if he tests dirty 5 more times than ban him!
cagar é uma filosofia profunda...
a merda bate na água e a água bate na bunda.
3 times?? and people are supposed to be cool?
by cagefightonacid on Jan 4, 2010 10:12 PM EST up reply actions
90%? Really? Would you like to give me 9-1 on my money if any of those guys fights any non-Fedor Strikeforce HW in the future?
Twitter: @Mike_Fagan_13
http://www.sackmikegoldberg.com
Look Fagan, just because you have a man-crush on Overeem doesn’t mean he has ever actually beaten a good HW.
by ufc4 on Jan 3, 2010 11:59 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
And there’s no way the top 3-5 HW’s in SF are +900 dogs to Mir, Carwin, etc.
Twitter: @Mike_Fagan_13
http://www.sackmikegoldberg.com
fedor vs a healthy brock
overeem vs mir
werdum vs JDS again
rogers vs carwin
bigfoot silva vs velasquez
herchel walker vs gonzaga??
dont think i forgot any SF guys and i got ufc winning most of these
Herchel gets the Kimbo treatment
cagar é uma filosofia profunda...
a merda bate na água e a água bate na bunda.
In order to make an argument about something, it is wise for you to do the research. In this case, you don’t know who SF has as HW, and Herschel Walker is NOT their 6th best HW. Not even close.
Heavyweight:
Alistair Overeem [CHAMP]
Fedor Emelianenko (M-1)
Fabricio Werdum
Antonio Silva
Brett Rogers
Roger Gracie
Bobby Lashley
“King” Mo Lawal (HW & LHW)
Shane Del Rosario (HW & LHW)
Mike Whitehead
Levar “Big” Johnson
Daniel Cormier
Ray Sefo
Jon Murphy
Carl Seumanutafa
Mike Cook
Not Yet Signed, In Talks, Or Some Relation:
Andrei Arlovski
Tim Sylvia
Sergei Kharitonov (DREAM)
Josh Barnett
by MMASuPreMaCy on Jan 3, 2010 7:29 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
So...
Roger Gracie is their 6th best HW? How about the 6th best that will actually fight? A LHW or a unproven Lashley?
Throwing Herschel out there was obviously a joke, but if you look at the roster that you just listed, it still doesn’t say a whole lot.
by MMAWrestling on Jan 3, 2010 7:33 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
It says a lot considering they didn’t have a HW division last year.
=)
And corrected…Roger Gracie is moving down to LHW.
not really herschel was a joke as the 6th heavy but really not far off after bigfoot silva the talent level drops severly to the 6th guy they have and i personally think silva sucks
and sure lashley might be good but i havent seen anythin yet from him
by milk72 on Jan 3, 2010 7:48 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
both of them havent fought anyone who comes even close to mattering before and are nowhere even close to the level of UFC fighters yet
by milk72 on Jan 3, 2010 8:12 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Which is why they are HW prospects. Again, SF did NOT have a HW division just 1 year ago.
by MMASuPreMaCy on Jan 3, 2010 11:45 PM EST up reply actions
so u cant say they’re pretty damn good if they have done nothing before, thats like me saying todd duffee is one of the UFCs good heavyweights
and didnt overeem win the SF heavyweight title in 07? so they had a heavyweight division a year ago
No, they had Paul Buentello vs Alistair OVereem in 2007 and never had a HW division since. Overeem wasn’t even signed to SF until mid last year.
Also, no one is disputing who has the most depth in the HW division, obviously that always goes to the UFC, but when people say that Walker is SF’s 6th best HW, that is just silly.
Also, no one is disputing who has the most depth in the HW division, obviously that always goes to the UFC
See above:
There is no denying the HW and LHW divisions are deeper in the UFC than SF at the moment. -orcus
LHW is a blowout but HW is arguable. -pdl
But Strikeforce is only putting on 12 cards with (4 CBS/ppv shows max and 8 Showtim cards – Challengers doesn’t really count for this) with 4 or 5 fights making up a broadcast, while UFC has 20 cards a year a year (13 PPV and several TUF finals and Fight night with 5 or 6 fights broadcast. So you are talking twice as many fights needed for the UFC to fill their cards. As long as Strikeforce posses half as many top 20 fighters as the UFC the quality for Fedor and the other top Strikeforce fighters won’t be signicantly lower.
Look at it this way: Strikeforce has the number 1, 4, 7, 10, 13 , 16, and 19 HWs while the UFC has all the others. If each of their top fighters has 2 fights that year it’ll look like
Strikeforce #1 vs 4 and later winner of 7 vs 10.
While for the UFC it’ll look like #2 vs 3 and winner of 5 vs 9 or 6 vs 8. The UFC is definitely better but it doesn’t make that much of a difference.
by John Nash on Jan 4, 2010 2:33 AM EST via mobile up reply actions 1 recs
It does make a big difference after
those four fights play out in SF. They’ll be out of credible fighters in the division after they tourney, and they’ll once again be taking UFC cast-offs to fill the roster.
It is absolutely hilarious to me how high up the rankings guys shoot after they leave the UFC. Without like, you know, fighting anyone.
There is no such thing as innocence, only degrees of guilt.
UFC:
Borck Lesnar
Frank Mir
Big Nog
Shane Carwin
Junior Dos Santos
Cain Velasquez
Gabriel Gonzaga
Mirko Cro Cop
Stefan Struve
Cheick Kongo
Todd Duffee
Paul Beuentello
Roy Nelson
Ben Rothwell
Pat Barry
Gilbert Yvel
Rolles Gracie
Antoni Hardonk
Tim Hague
Mike Ruossow
Chris Tuchscherer
Chase Gormley
Mostapha Al Turk
Heath Herring
James McSweeney
Brendan Schaub
Matt Mitrione
Kimbo Slice
Randy Couture
(taken from ufc.com… I think everyone here listed is still with them)
by MMAWrestling on Jan 3, 2010 7:50 PM EST up reply actions 5 recs
Bull-
shit.
Keep firing Assholes!
It’s as if you fell down a flight of stairs, then logged onto the internet.
by Ubernoober on Jan 3, 2010 8:36 PM EST up reply actions 4 recs
You usually don't stick your nose out on positions like this.
I just don’t see any way to agree with your position here, though. UFC HW division actually has depth, after the ‘top 6 or 7’ outside the UFC, there’s literally nothing but guys who would get their heads knocked off by Roy Fucking Nelson. And where the hell does Big Country rate on the UFC depth chart?
There is no such thing as innocence, only degrees of guilt.
Pretty high actually.
He’s one of the top ten HWs they have. If he fights Cain next, he’ll be Cain’s toughest fight yet.
"Someone is WRONG on the internet. What do you want me to do? LEAVE? Then they'll keep being wrong!"
-Randall Munroe
by pdl on Jan 3, 2010 8:54 PM EST up reply actions
Put it this way, then:
Take all of the guys outside that imaginary 6-7 top group and how many of them would be any more than fodder for the TUF house?
There is no such thing as innocence, only degrees of guilt.
TUF fodder?
I think Roy Nelson would beat a good deal of Strikeforce guys, being a level above the Shane Del Rosario’s of the world. Aside from him though… somebody like Daniel Cormier, with his one professional fight, would have handily smashed Kimbo and the football players. Even an undersized King Mo could have wrestled his way through that tournament if you take Roy out of the equation. The talent pool was piss poor beyond Big Country (who had no business being there) and the potential shown by Schaub and Wren.
If you asked me if a majority of Strikeforce heavys would sink or swim in the UFC, I’d say sink. But if they were on Team Rashad for TUF 10, they’d manhandle the guys in the house. And honestly, Roy Nelson is a top 10 UFC heavyweight. Congrats on poor goalpost setting.
"Someone is WRONG on the internet. What do you want me to do? LEAVE? Then they'll keep being wrong!"
-Randall Munroe
Nah, wasn't goalpost setting whatsoever.
Marcus Jones would fight well against many/most of the guys who are outside that mythical 6-7 top guys.
Matt Mitrione would do quite well against them. Maybe he doesn’t win more than half, but they’re all fights.
Brendan Shaub (sp?) is also a guy who would give them fits.
Kimbo gets his ass handed to him by basically anyone who has a reasonably rounded MMA game. And by that I mean MW or higher.
Dunno about Titties. He probably hangs pretty tough against them, also.
So no, I’m not using typical trolling tactics to minimize the opposing viewpoint. When I say ‘fodder,’ perhaps my meaning isn’t the same as others. I mean “would fit right in with the cast of, without distinguishing from the herd at the outset.”
But thank YOU for playing. We’ll be spinning the wheel after these messages.
Be sure to spay and neuter your pets. It’s important.
There is no such thing as innocence, only degrees of guilt.
Damn that illness hit him harder than I thought!
Guillotine.
by iiowyn on Jan 3, 2010 9:19 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
The entire depth of the HW division is pretty much a kiddy pool compared to any other division.
Guillotine.
Fucking A.
Agree.
"Someone is WRONG on the internet. What do you want me to do? LEAVE? Then they'll keep being wrong!"
-Randall Munroe
by pdl on Jan 3, 2010 6:44 PM EST up reply actions
I think Fedor ends up in the UFC
he beats Rogers, then beats Werdum, then beats Over(ated)eem . . . what is left for him in Strikeforce?
by mason_beer on Jan 3, 2010 6:14 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
this is a great interview
i’m glad they can laugh and jaw at each other in good fun… and i take his word for it when he says he doesn’t want an outcome. i think he knows he can make more money off of rashad vs rampage but i think they are beyond that point and plan ahead to make intriguing match-ups no matter who wins. great job sherdog and dana.
by cagefightonacid on Jan 3, 2010 6:23 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
I want Fedor vs a more developed dos Santos more than any other fight. That would be Fedor vs a Nogueira blackbelt with thunderous striking, that sounds better to me than a match-up with Lesnar. Thing is, could Fedor be diminished or retired by that time?
We're just a million little gods causin' rain storms, turning every good thing to rust.
by Anthony Pace on Jan 3, 2010 6:24 PM EST via mobile reply actions 2 recs
dos santos is still so highly underrated id say hes the #3 heavyweight in the UFC right now after mir and a healthy brock
he really deserves a title shot with his body of work but the mir carwin matchup and the velasquez big nog matchup leaves him a little lost for now, gonzagas not really an intriguing matchup for him but kinda all hes got i see him finishin gonzaga in the 1st and i dont see who else he could fight soon
by milk72 on Jan 3, 2010 6:30 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I love JDS, favorite heavyweight right now
but you guys are literally overrating him. He’s a purple belt under Nog. Maybe brown by now. He’s got a good ways to go before a black belt.
I agree he should be right in the title picture, but don’t pretend he’s something he’s not.
"Someone is WRONG on the internet. What do you want me to do? LEAVE? Then they'll keep being wrong!"
-Randall Munroe
by pdl on Jan 3, 2010 6:36 PM EST up reply actions
He may be a purple belt, but I guarantee that purple belt is ranked higher than Rashad’s black belt:p
cagar é uma filosofia profunda...
a merda bate na água e a água bate na bunda.
by Orcus on Jan 3, 2010 6:38 PM EST up reply actions 3 recs
uh oh, Brazilian questioning the legitamacy of a gracie black belt?!
by cagefightonacid on Jan 3, 2010 7:08 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
lol
that’s ok, I’m actually from hell :p
cagar é uma filosofia profunda...
a merda bate na água e a água bate na bunda.
Well, technically the underworld.
Hell is/was more of a christian thing. Not invented by them, but certainly popularized and made mainstream there.
Orcus is much older than Christ. He’s also the main enemy in the most bad-ass adventure module I’ve ever had the pleasure of using to kill off every single high-powered group I’ve DM’d. Rappan Athuk, baby ;)
There is no such thing as innocence, only degrees of guilt.
Roman god of the underworld. Later merged with Dis Pater, and ten merged/ was replaced by Pluto (Hades). Eventually become the demon Dispater because of Dante’s Inferno. Pretty fascinating and pointless stuff.
damn fool
how dare you tell me who I am? I’ll strike you down where you stand!!!
ok, let’s bring down a noch :p
all old gods before christianity are considered pagans, that’s just a word given by christianity to differentiate themselves from other religions and to try and falsify them as well. But I’m going to stop now, because I think we’re breaking the rules with this discussion :p
cagar é uma filosofia profunda...
a merda bate na água e a água bate na bunda.
Religion discussion?
Where’s my helmet?
Keep firing Assholes!
It’s as if you fell down a flight of stairs, then logged onto the internet.
But this isn't religion.
It’s actually right-down-broadway theology and mythology. Nothing religious about anything that’s been said, aside from sideways references to a particular theos (christianity).
I’d really be shocked if this ST got flagged for religion.
There is no such thing as innocence, only degrees of guilt.
I stick to the “if you don’s have something nice to say don’t say anything at all” when it comes to talking religion/theology/politics etc.
Keep firing Assholes!
It’s as if you fell down a flight of stairs, then logged onto the internet.
I think that's pretty close to the deal with most
big blogs/forums like this one. And I’m not trying to stir anything up, it just seems to me that we were commenting on how the term ‘pagan’ came to be. Wasn’t anything disrespectful in there, just some illumination on the origin of a wildly misunderstood term.
I guess there’s one word there, ‘falsify,’ which could be construed as negative, but I would have to think that pretty much everyone understands that all religions compete in the arena of ideas, and sometimes the only way to make your idea look better is by kicking dirt on the other ones.
There is no such thing as innocence, only degrees of guilt.
Be cool if there was a SB nation “mud pit” where off-topic stuff like politics/religion/etc could be discussed beacause there are a lot of smart people around here worth talking to.
Keep firing Assholes!
It’s as if you fell down a flight of stairs, then logged onto the internet.
by Ubernoober on Jan 3, 2010 10:09 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
There are plenty of SBN blogs where they put up with a lot more crap than we do.
Bolts from the Blue // "I have got to be the most boring GM in the league." - A.J. Smith
Bloody Elbow // " looks like your comment violated rule #4. and it’s a heck of a rule, rule #4" - Kid Nate
I got to be honest
when you threatened me I pissed myself a little.
Just don't let him hit you with the wand,and you've got a chance.
Otherwise, not so sure you can make a 50 on your fortitude save.
There is no such thing as innocence, only degrees of guilt.
by misterjonez on Jan 3, 2010 9:48 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I mean, you're tough,
but not that tough.
There is no such thing as innocence, only degrees of guilt.
Nice find.
Most of the images I’ve got are black and white. That’s a pretty sweet one.
There is no such thing as innocence, only degrees of guilt.
Meh, maybe it was my DM but I wasn’t really impressed with that one. World’s Largest Dungeon ftw!
Guillotine.
I dunno,
I’ve been told I’m a pretty good DM, and I’ve also been told that I can be absolute hell when it comes to enforcing the actual rules, rather than letting the players slip through the cracks on stupid stuff.
And really, it is a massive dungeon, but there are tons of ways to skip on down to the bottom.
I think to enjoy real dungeon crawls, it’s up to the DM to impose the claustrophobic dread that would actually come with being deep underground with demons, dragons and all sorts of nastiness waiting around the corner. In my experience, some high-leverage encounters with enemies using deadly poison is usually enough to get everyone puckered up quite beautifully.
But just enforcing stuff like the 2nd Ed. fireball secondary damage can be absolutely devastating. It really helps to bring the thing up in realism, rather than paper-and-penciling an MMO, which to me, is retarded.
There is no such thing as innocence, only degrees of guilt.
You guys are nerds
And by the way the giant series (Steading of the Hill Giant Chief, Glacier Rift of the Frost Giant Jarl, and Hallof the Fire Giant King) plus the Lost Caverns of Tsocanth are the greatest adventures ever published.
Wow, goin' old skool there.
My own personal favorite series is the Dragon Mountain boxed set. But that one would come off so terribly without a good DM.
But then I’ve always preferred to play and run 1st-7th level characters. There’s much more drama and danger in the average encounter at that level, and it can make for some really entertaining stories to tell later.
There is no such thing as innocence, only degrees of guilt.
It is Tsojcanth.
And I was hamstrung by a lack of players during that era =(
The Red Box basic rulebook was the third book I ever learned to read.
Guillotine.
All the original EGG stuff I DMed back in the 80’s with a group of 8 players. One ODed, one is in methadone treatment, one is serving time, and another is still on probation. A pretty Effed up group, but it was all in fun.
It kind of sucks to see what happened to most of the people
we game with. About like you said, half of them are complete fuck-ups, the rest are just ordinary people.
Some of the best parties of my life revolved around gaming. Holy shit, that stuff is/was fun.
There is no such thing as innocence, only degrees of guilt.
i wouldnt say im overrating him he definetly has more accomplishments recently than carwin big nog or velasquez
carwin really only beat gonzaga, nog beat randy, and velaquez barely beat kongo, and rothwell id say KOing werdum, struve, and yvel and makin cro cop quit go above everyone else’s
I was addressing that largely to RD Sr.
and you only for not correcting him. Cain weren’t heavily hyped and marketable for a push to Mexico, and Mir wasn’t such a good self-promoter, and there wasn’t a refusal to fight Nog, I think JDS would be in talks for the title/interim belt. His lack of a title shot has nothing to do with his accomplishments or skills. Can’t wait to see more from him.
"Someone is WRONG on the internet. What do you want me to do? LEAVE? Then they'll keep being wrong!"
-Randall Munroe
by pdl on Jan 3, 2010 6:56 PM EST up reply actions
let me clarify
I don’t think he’s ready now. I say by the time he’s got that blackbelt from the Noguieras and after a fight with another top contender or two (I REALLY want him to fight Cain), he’ll be as dangerous a HW as there is right now, and probably a tougher challenge to Fedor than Brock. I jizz my pants thinking JDS could be a faster, stronger version of Big Nog, with more powerful striking. I’m not saying he is that, but he can be…
We're just a million little gods causin' rain storms, turning every good thing to rust.
i think that could be an absolutely epic fight. if JDS wins, I think he’s the no. 1 contender far and away to the belt, and if Mir wins his place amongst top-3 heavyweights is ironclad and he gets his rematch with Lesnar.
We're just a million little gods causin' rain storms, turning every good thing to rust.
Note how Dana doesn’t even try talking directly to Fedor anymore.
He has to deal w/ M1. Sad but true.
Lord, I hope he gets them over though!
by jhf884 on Jan 3, 2010 6:40 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
He doesn't talk directly to Anderson or Lyoto either.
He talks to their management, Ed Soares. Not a big deal.
"Someone is WRONG on the internet. What do you want me to do? LEAVE? Then they'll keep being wrong!"
-Randall Munroe
by pdl on Jan 3, 2010 6:43 PM EST up reply actions
OK, but M1 isn’t exactly the same as having management. (unless that management is corrupt russians :P)
M1’s relation w/ Fedor is practically the definition of conflict of interest.
by jhf884 on Jan 3, 2010 6:45 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
It is exactly the same, if I understand correctly.
M1 is the firm which manages him as an athlete. If we want to talk corruption, there’s plenty of guys with huge conflicts of interest in MMA that could be called corrupt. M1 is just the most public, and far from the most atrocious.
"Someone is WRONG on the internet. What do you want me to do? LEAVE? Then they'll keep being wrong!"
-Randall Munroe
by pdl on Jan 3, 2010 6:48 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
M1 is also a promotion just like the UFC. It’s weird, they are managers/fight promoters. Those Russians!
cagar é uma filosofia profunda...
a merda bate na água e a água bate na bunda.
So is Wallid Ismail?
"Someone is WRONG on the internet. What do you want me to do? LEAVE? Then they'll keep being wrong!"
-Randall Munroe
by pdl on Jan 3, 2010 7:46 PM EST up reply actions
Nope. A manager is a person.
M-1 is a corporation, which Fedor has only a 10% stake in, despite being far and away it’s most valuable asset.
You don’t “own” 10% stake in your management company, while letting your manager own/control the rest (are there other stakeholders? Whatever the case, Vlad effectively has control of the corp)
Also, which is it? Is it “not a big deal”? Or are they corrupt?
Finally, I never said there weren’t plenty of corrupt managers.
Fedor doesn’t speak English, Dana doesn’t speak Russian, that’s the reason!
cagar é uma filosofia profunda...
a merda bate na água e a água bate na bunda.
by Orcus on Jan 3, 2010 6:45 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Please Dana
Shock the MMA world, bring Fedor and Mousasi to the UFC. If anyone can get it done its Dana sandwiched between two Fertitta’s holding briefcases full of money!
by B-A-N-A-N-A-S on Jan 3, 2010 6:50 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
This is the first thing I thought of when I saw this
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i3MXiTeH_Pg
"I will do nothing lightly. When I walk, I will walk heavily. When I fight, I will fight with conviction. When I speak, I will speak strongly. When I love, I will love with everything"
Considering Fedor and Mousasi have exclusive contracts with Strikeforce, Dana’s comments are either tampering, or bullshit.
by smoogy2 on Jan 3, 2010 8:22 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
UFC could do a show in japan under the PRIDE banner if they wanted to and hire bas rutten to do commentary, not do drug testing for that show, use a ring instead of a cage…. yeah i know not gonna happen, but one can hope
Meaning they should just hold the fight in England.
Simple enough solution.
There is no such thing as innocence, only degrees of guilt.
Just to keep this fantasy alive for a lot of people I am going to point out that I believe Fedor’s contract allows him to fight for other promotions outside of the US. So I will be the first to start the rumor that the UFC and M-1 plan on co-promoting an event in South Korea.
And Dana? What no love for Karl Amoussou?
south korea?
how about UFC 113 in Canada eh?
ahhhhh North America Exclusive
the edit button would be helpful here, otherwise everybody will know im not smarter then a 5th grader :p
by B-A-N-A-N-A-S on Jan 3, 2010 8:45 PM EST up reply actions
I was actually surprised to see I made it halfway down the comments page before I saw MMASuPreMaCy listing of every fighter not signed by Zuffa to give credence to the ridiculous notion that Strikeforce’s roster had more depth. Because Ray Sefo ≥ Roy Nelson, right?
Either everyone else is discussing in much more intelligent conversation or he’s growing tired. Either way, we win.
by Tap or Snap Radio on Jan 3, 2010 10:06 PM EST reply actions 4 recs
LOL
That wasn’t what I said but sure. Someone said that Herschel Walker was their 6th best HW, which is obviously not true.
by MMASuPreMaCy on Jan 3, 2010 11:53 PM EST up reply actions
duh
He’s their top HW
We're just a million little gods causin' rain storms, turning every good thing to rust.
by Anthony Pace on Jan 4, 2010 2:00 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Either everyone else is discussing in much more intelligent conversation or he’s growing tired. Either way, we win.
Or…people need better reading comprehension.
=)
by MMASuPreMaCy on Jan 3, 2010 11:55 PM EST up reply actions
Then why not just list six SF HWs? Why list Ray Sefo, a fighter nearing 40 with two MMA bouts to his name? Why add the “Not Yet Signed, In Talks, Or Some Relation” list?
It was partially a retort to whoever said Walker was SF’s sixth best HW, yes, but it was still drenched in your usual anti-Zuffa, pro-Strikefo… no, pro-anything not Zuffa bias.
by Tap or Snap Radio on Jan 5, 2010 8:38 PM EST up reply actions
When Fedor is standing in the Octagon, i'm going to care.
Never ending soap opera: Fedor and the UFC.
by snakecharmer1340 on Jan 3, 2010 11:19 PM EST reply actions
No, that lawsuit isn’t going to have any bearing on M1 and their ridiculous demands the UFC. Dana is just bullheaded enough to continue to bash his head against the wall hoping for a different outcome funny thing is the hardcores should love him for that. Yet they seem to have no clue just how important he is to making all the fights they claim to want happen.
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