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FightMetric Report for UFC 108 Main Event (Rashad Evans vs. Thiago Silva)

Photo via D. Mandel at Sherdog

Photo via D. Mandel at Sherdog


It's a huge faux pas in the online gambling community to brag about your winners if you made no public announcement of your play prior to the sporting contest.  So, with FightMetric releasing their report for last night's UFC 108 main event between Rashad Evans and Thiago Silva, I say the following with a whole heaping of reservation.

I scored the fight a 29-29 draw with the second round as the dreaded 10-10.

I didn't tweet it.  I didn't post it in the live thread.  Hell, I didn't even casually mention it in the post-fight analysis.  To be fair, I put a bet on Silva, and I'm always a little wary of offering bold statements in fights in which I may not be able to trust my own sense of objectivity. 

In any case, I wasn't exactly shocked when I woke up to this:

Evans vs. Silva Effectiveness Scores
Evans Silva
R1 81 41
R2 44 42
R3 31 51
Total 156 134

That translates into a 29-29 draw if you extrapolate the Effectiveness Scores into the ten point must system.  FightMetric gives the nod to Rashad if we look at the fight as a whole, and I'm not sure many people are going to disagree that if you factor in the other (and as I've pointed out before, inane) criteria, Rashad takes decision.

Still, round two is another data point we can toss around when we discuss the limitations of the current judging criteria.  Rashad only landed 8 strikes in the round (3 power shots) while going 3-7 on his takedowns and only passing to half-guard once.  Thiago landed 22 strikes (5 power shots) and was more active throwing 31 strikes to Rashad's 23.

In addition, Rami Genaur of FightMetric found this fun stat:

Despite landing eight takedowns throughout the match, Evans managed to land only three strikes on the ground. It is exceedingly rare to see an instance where a fighter lands more takedowns than ground strikes. In fact, Evans now holds the record for least strikes landed by a fighter with five or more takedowns landed.

...

This, of course, begs the question represented by the equation in the title: In the absence of any striking (or submission attempts, for that matter) once on the ground, are takedowns really an effective offensive technique?

108_medium_medium

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This made me laugh.

by argyle on Jan 3, 2010 10:57 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Rec'd lol

Walking the line between intelligence and ignorance since 1985
@deowade

by Deo Wade on Jan 3, 2010 11:15 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

That guy is like a single shot .410. Shoot, stand, open barrel, re-load, repeat.

File under Satire

by Heenan on Jan 3, 2010 11:58 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Man I love watching the look on Neer’s face whenever he gets taken down, it makes me feel all warm and fuzzy inside watching him lose to it.

Guillotine.

by iiowyn on Jan 3, 2010 1:52 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

If it werent for the takedowns Silva would have had Rashad KTFO in the third. I see them as a tactical way of controlling the pace of the fight and your opponents ability to gain momentum. Not only that but as Jon Jones displayed, you can end a fight with a takedown (sort of, Hammil wouldnt have been able to continue with the dislocated shoulder). They also separate a complete martial artist from a fighter who can’t wrestle, which I think is an important element of the sport, by taking away point for takedowns you are saying that the wrestling aspect isnt as important as the striking/submissions, not fair.

by Beyondadrenalin on Jan 3, 2010 10:48 AM EST reply actions   1 recs

basically what you said, although only some of the take-downs were exciting . . . Evans was pretty boring because of his inability to do anything once he had Silva down. With that said, he totally nullified any offense from Silva.

Happy Holidays and A Happy New Year

by VeeisAnimated on Jan 3, 2010 10:51 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

If he had totally nullified his offense he wouldnt have been wobbled by those strikes in the third

by TheBiggertheyare... on Jan 3, 2010 5:36 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

In my opinion, its like you’re saying clinching should be scored positively in a boxing match because clinches are

a tactical way of controlling the pace of the fight and your opponents ability to gain momentum.

This isn’t a wrestling match, its an MMA fight. You shouldn’t be able to score points or win by simply pinning your opponent.

Ricky Hatton came closer to beating Manny Pacquiao than Marquez did to beating Floyd.

-SC

by The Lethal Haze on Jan 3, 2010 12:40 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

there is a big difference between taking your opponent off their feet and holding them in a clinch. Who said anythign about pinning anyone, were talking about taking somebody down.

by Beyondadrenalin on Jan 3, 2010 2:12 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

The complaint isn’t with takedowns in general. Its when someone takes their opponent down and doesn’t improve their position, attempt any submissions, or throw any meaningful strikes. I’m of the opinion that taking someone down and landing in their guard shouldn’t be scored- the fighters went from a neutral position on the feet to a neutral position on the ground, in my opinion.

Taking someone down and holding them there is… known as pinning someone in wrestling. It wins wrestling matches. It stifles action in MMA matches.

Ricky Hatton came closer to beating Manny Pacquiao than Marquez did to beating Floyd.

-SC

by The Lethal Haze on Jan 3, 2010 2:25 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Rashad fought like a coward

This proves it, Thiago had pretty much no answer for his takedowns and now we hear Rashad holds the record for least strikes to takedowns! Thiago is a warrior and although on points he lost that fight, it was obvious who the real victor was last night. He begged Rashad to TRY and hit him and Rashad refused. I personally can’t stand fighters like that. I don’t meant to bash Rashad because anyone who steps up to fight is a brave person but the takedown/ no attack, rinse and repeat strategy should be penalized not rewarded. This fight once again highlights the need for revamping scoring in MMA.

by The Danimal on Jan 3, 2010 10:51 AM EST reply actions   0 recs

Was Randy Couture a coward for avoiding Brandon Vera's muay thai and kickboxing?

I won’t say Evans fought like a coward at all. Silva is a bjj blackbelt and was very comfortable off his back. If a fighter avoids striking with a guy like Paul Daley, does that makes him a coward. No, not at all, it just makes him smart enough to avoid his opponents strength by using one of his best weapons.

Happy Holidays and A Happy New Year

by VeeisAnimated on Jan 3, 2010 10:54 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

What good is a weapon if it lacks any ammo?

Twitter: @FlyByKnite

by FlyByKnight on Jan 3, 2010 10:56 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

what if its a slingshot?

And NEW UFC Welterweight Champion of the World.....Dan "The Outlaw" Hardy!

by slapjaw ackrite on Jan 3, 2010 11:12 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

You can still stab them in the eye with it.

Walking the line between intelligence and ignorance since 1985
@deowade

by Deo Wade on Jan 3, 2010 11:16 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

You can still stab them in the eye both eyes with it.

Fixed.

Guillotine.

by iiowyn on Jan 3, 2010 1:57 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

rec'd

for Snatch reference

Ricky Hatton came closer to beating Manny Pacquiao than Marquez did to beating Floyd.

-SC

by The Lethal Haze on Jan 3, 2010 12:41 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Walking the line between intelligence and ignorance since 1985
@deowade

by Deo Wade on Jan 3, 2010 1:03 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Superman lets bullets bounce off his chest but dodges the gun when his enemy throws it at him…

Guillotine.

by iiowyn on Jan 3, 2010 1:56 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

So, let me get this straight

Boxing = real MMA fighter
Wrestling = cowardice

I completely and utterly disagree with you. Why in the HELL would Rashad want to stand and trade with Thiago? That would be stupid beyong belief.
Just because you don’t like wrestling takedowns doesn’t mean they are cowardly.

"The moment you stop thinking you're the best, it's time for you to get out the game." -'King' Mo Lawal

by duck on Jan 3, 2010 11:05 AM EST via mobile up reply actions   1 recs

So Rashad should of just stood toe to toe with Thiago and exchanged blows? He was a coward because he played to his strengths and his opponents weaknesses? Perhaps you are watching the wrong sport, this is mixed martial arts not boxing.

by who me on Jan 3, 2010 11:42 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

For "Duck" and "who me"

I am not at all saying Rashad is a coward for takedowns, I actually train MMA, we spend hours working td’s and defense. BUT… When training takedowns we train IMPROVING POSITION and DEALING DAMAGE, not just holding a guy down. When all you do is throw a flurry to a takedown and then hump, my trainer yells at me to improve position and rain down blows. Rashad is a coward because his strategy was to muscle Thiago (who rumors say was hurt) to victory rather than trying to finish the fight.

by The Danimal on Jan 3, 2010 11:53 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

well since you train....

You should understand how hard it is to control a top ten LHW on the ground, who is bigger than you and has a BJJ Black Belt, and huge KO power..

All after coming back from the only loss of your career, and a long layoff…

People should know that fighters may have to win an ugly fight here and there to stay atop the ladder. Not every fight is going to be ridiculously epic, in which two fighters are at the brink of defeat throwing bombs, and going for inverted-triangle/kimuras and the like.

I'm like PacMan fightin you silly kids... throw ya Hatton the ring, and get knocked outlike Ricky did.
lol.

by Loot on Jan 3, 2010 12:09 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Rashad wasn’t just holding him down he was trying to improve his position (heck he got to mount once) and just because he didn’t do damage on the ground doesn’t mean that he wasn’t trying to do damage on the ground it just means that Thiago stopped him. Do you honestly believe that Rashad went in to the fight with the strategy of taking Thiago down and then just doing nothing at all with it? Seriously that is ridiculous, he was improving position thoughout and was trying to hit him but Thiago was able to get back to his feet.

by who me on Jan 3, 2010 12:22 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

And just because he tried to do damage and didnt doesn’t mean he should get credit for it.

also he got the mount, and almost immediately thiago stood right back up, Rashads grappling was good enough to get thiago down, but he never did anything with it.

Thiago came closes to ending the fight. it should have been a draw

by TheBiggertheyare... on Jan 3, 2010 5:41 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Please any one who steps in that cage is pretty dam far from a coward. Please just think before you post ! I can’t stand Rashad but a coward he is not. If Silva can’t stop the take down then why stop doing it.

by Shocbomb on Jan 3, 2010 12:08 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Agreed no one who steps in the cage is a coward

I said Rashad fought like a coward. There is no excuse for not trying to finish a fight especially with the good positions he had. And no, I wouldn’t know how hard it is to control a top ten LHW, I only train with amateur fighters personally although I hope to be with the big boys some day.
As far as Silva not stopping the takedown, I 100% agree keep doing it! Finish the fight though dammit! We pay to see who the best complete fighter is, not who the best guy is with takedowns.
It is common knowledge that good takedowns can stifle good striking most of the time, but once you have the takedown, do something with it! Examples, Fedor, GSP, Brock, hurt them once you get them down! It’s a fight, finish the fight!

by The Danimal on Jan 3, 2010 12:28 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

And "wining an ugly fight to stay at the top of the ladder"

This is a good example of not having the warrior spirit, fighters should go out to win a fight, not to win points.

by The Danimal on Jan 3, 2010 12:31 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Once again, how do you know he wasn’t trying to finish the fight and Thiago was just stopping him by getting up so quickly? There is a huge difference between not trying to do anything and just not being able to do anything with the position that you don’t seem to be getting. Hell your thinking is pretty insulting to Thiago Silva, you are acting like he did nothing but lay there instead of actively defending against Rashad trying to improve position.

by who me on Jan 3, 2010 12:37 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

bq.There is a huge difference between not trying to do anything and just not being able to do anything with the position that you don’t seem to be getting.

I remember people giving Kimbo hell because he either didn’t know how to or couldn’t stop Houston Alexander’s circling. There was no “But he was trying guys!” arguments.

Ricky Hatton came closer to beating Manny Pacquiao than Marquez did to beating Floyd.

-SC

by The Lethal Haze on Jan 3, 2010 12:47 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

block quote fail

Ricky Hatton came closer to beating Manny Pacquiao than Marquez did to beating Floyd.

-SC

by The Lethal Haze on Jan 3, 2010 12:47 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I remember people giving Alexander hell (and the UFC letting him go) because that was all he did in the fight. I don’t remember people giving Kimbo that much hell for trying though.

by who me on Jan 3, 2010 12:49 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I agree with your first sentence… and I don’t think either one of us cares enough to go back and read some of those Kimbo-Alexander threads to see who was actually right. Selective memories FTW!

Ricky Hatton came closer to beating Manny Pacquiao than Marquez did to beating Floyd.

-SC

by The Lethal Haze on Jan 3, 2010 12:54 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I know because thiago stuck his chin right out at rashad, and rashad just looked at him.

by TheBiggertheyare... on Jan 3, 2010 5:42 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

warrior spirit is bullshit

and winning points resulting in winning a decision is “going out to win”

Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
MMA Editor - SBNation.com

by Brent Brookhouse on Jan 3, 2010 1:41 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

exactly the bottom line is a win is a win no matter how you get it how pretty it may be or sloppy. To me its just like a pitcher in baseball it does not matter if you pitch a complete game 2 hit Gem or strugle on the mound and only go 5 innings and give up 6 runs a shit load of walks and hits but the end result is your team scores 1 more and you get the W in the end. The W looks the same dam way no matter what the next day in a paper and it counts the same also in the standings.

by Shocbomb on Jan 3, 2010 2:30 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I’m resisting the urge to wax violence on my hatred for the “win” statistic in baseball.

Twitter: @Mike_Fagan_13
http://www.sackmikegoldberg.com

by Mike Fagan on Jan 3, 2010 4:52 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

then forget wins for pitchers and think of wins for teams (especially since that’s more towards what you were saying). Win by 20 or come back from 8 in the bottom of the 9th, they all look the same in the standings at the end of the season.

by Phildo on Jan 3, 2010 5:00 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I wasn’t trying to put down his argument about winning ugly. I just really really hate the W stat for pitchers.

Twitter: @Mike_Fagan_13
http://www.sackmikegoldberg.com

by Mike Fagan on Jan 3, 2010 5:13 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

Warrior Spirit is bullshit??!!

Keyboard warrior spirit at it’s finest displayed right there. No fighter on earth would say or agree with that. This is the last thing I am posting about this but wow, bullshit huh? And you think you’re a fight fan? Enjoy the lay and pray brother.

by The Danimal on Jan 3, 2010 5:42 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Thank God!

(that this is the last thing you are posting about this)

by b2tharad on Jan 3, 2010 6:23 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Who cares how you win its getting the dam W that counts in all sports.

by Shocbomb on Jan 3, 2010 2:33 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

10 point must system, Rashad takes it.

scored as a whole, Thiago takes it

but I don’t see a draw though…

cagar é uma filosofia profunda...
a merda bate na água e a água bate na bunda.

by orcus on Jan 3, 2010 10:58 AM EST reply actions   0 recs

Thiago wins with 45 seconds of control and damage out of 15 minutes?

"The moment you stop thinking you're the best, it's time for you to get out the game." -'King' Mo Lawal

by duck on Jan 3, 2010 11:07 AM EST via mobile up reply actions   1 recs

yep, in my view, you don’t win fights without trying to damage your opponent, which Rashad didn’t. He was only shooting for takedowns and not much more. Granted, that gives you a dominance stance, but as soon as your opponent starts "fighting", you’d lose that status.

cagar é uma filosofia profunda...
a merda bate na água e a água bate na bunda.

by orcus on Jan 3, 2010 2:38 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

he didn't throw strikes, or try to advance his position at all?

did we watch the same fight?

I'm like PacMan fightin you silly kids... throw ya Hatton the ring, and get knocked outlike Ricky did.
lol.

by Loot on Jan 3, 2010 4:09 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

afraid so

cagar é uma filosofia profunda...
a merda bate na água e a água bate na bunda.

by orcus on Jan 3, 2010 4:39 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

yeah he didnt really throw many strikes on the ground, as the article says, he used them just to get takedowns

by TheBiggertheyare... on Jan 3, 2010 5:44 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Rashad would have won a rounds 4 and 5. Thiago had nothing for him. He landed that lucky punch but didn’t have anything left as evidenced by his failure to finish the fight. Rashad would have come out in the fourth round fresh after that 1 minute break.

That was a clear victory for Rashad. People are acting like Thiago did something in the first two rounds and that Rashad was saved by the bell. Silva literally landed ONE clean punch that wobbled Rashad and that makes the fight a draw? Give me a fucking break.

by zeke21 on Jan 3, 2010 11:13 AM EST reply actions   0 recs

Rashad had nothing left, thats why he couldnt take him down anymore

by TheBiggertheyare... on Jan 3, 2010 5:45 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I always find it funny when a fighter “begs” another fighter to engage. Hell if you want to engage, do it. Why would Rashad fall for these antics when he knew he was winning the fight. I thought Thiago made himself look like a fool, because he did have a chance to finish the fight and wasted the opportunity. Those takedowns do count. Its Mixed Martial Arts. If you don’t want to get taken down, learn some takedown defense.

by sidphishus on Jan 3, 2010 11:17 AM EST reply actions   0 recs

the funny thing is that Rashad DID fell for it, and paid for it. Thiago was just too damn tired to finish the job, he needs to work on his cardio and takedown defense more, and have a heart transplant (he need’s one from either Wandy or Cyborg).

cagar é uma filosofia profunda...
a merda bate na água e a água bate na bunda.

by orcus on Jan 3, 2010 2:40 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I just went back and rewatched the fight and I just don’t see Thiago landing as many shots in the second as this says. Other than that I agree with what they got and the conclusions they came to.

by who me on Jan 3, 2010 11:46 AM EST reply actions   0 recs

it’s their job, I’ll take a doctors view on my health more seriously than I take my father’s view (he keeps telling me to put some robitussin on it).

cagar é uma filosofia profunda...
a merda bate na água e a água bate na bunda.

by orcus on Jan 3, 2010 2:43 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Well you gotta let that tussin get to the bone

Giving Shogun his props. I had the fight 48-47 Machida but Shogun put up a monumental performance and I am honored to have seen it in person.

by Day Man on Jan 3, 2010 10:41 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

haha

tussin ought to straighten out the bone! lt’s good

cagar é uma filosofia profunda...
a merda bate na água e a água bate na bunda.

by orcus on Jan 4, 2010 8:59 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I have no sympathy for Thiago in this fight, he had the chance to finish Rashad in the third round and didn’t do it. If he hadn’t spent all his energy acting like an idiot trying to get Rashad to come after him maybe he could have TKO’d him when he had the chance instead of standing there with his hands on his waist letting a still wobbled Rashad recover.

by ufc4 on Jan 3, 2010 11:59 AM EST reply actions   0 recs

I agree and disagree. He made Rashad fight him in the third because Rashad is an idiot. He let the fans affect him. Like I said last night on another site:

I’m giving Thiago a moral victory for actually wanting to fight. He didn’t know what he was doing for the first 10 minutes but he did more in the last five than Rashad did that entire fight. As good as Rashad’s wrestling is, his striking is bad. Very bad. And he knows it. That’s why he went back to his wrestling roots. And he’s very proud. Tremendously proud. And that’s his downfall. Why strike with a guy who’s getting into a rhythm just because he throws his hands up and tells you to strike with him? Rashad is an idiot. Plain and simple. Rampage will kill him. Machida would dehumanize him. And any other 205 striker out there who is at the top of the food chain would send him packing down to 185. That’s where Rashad belongs anyways. I still love how Rashad lets Jardine play the role of tester for him. That’s how I know Rashad is a female body part.

Twitter: @FlyByKnite

by FlyByKnight on Jan 3, 2010 12:46 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

a bit much?

Your analysis is pretty one-sided. during the first 2 rounds Rashad controlled everything about the fight. He used his boxing a lot in Round 1 to setup the takedowns, and worked for position. He was using good body shots, and decent combination striking to stifle Thiago’s offense, and work for a take down. He had some big takedowns in the fight in addition to some guard passing as well, even tho he lacked the GnP we all expected from him.

That last round he took a huge shot and was hurt, but he wasn’t done… and he survived.. and he won. Don’t go around calling guys pussies when just won a fight against a top 10 guy in his weight class. Get the fuck outa here with your fighter bashing bullshit

I'm like PacMan fightin you silly kids... throw ya Hatton the ring, and get knocked outlike Ricky did.
lol.

by Loot on Jan 3, 2010 1:13 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

How is that fighter bashing? He lets Jardine fight everyone first, backs outta fights to let Jardine fight other guys, and then fights them after having a blueprint for them. Case and point: Rampage. I like Rashad as a fighter but he’s a pansy. Fight a guy without having to rely on your teammate first.

Twitter: @FlyByKnite

by FlyByKnight on Jan 3, 2010 1:17 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

he was supposed to fight Rampage correct?

So he probably wouldn’t be fighting Thiago PERIOD if that had happened. With Thiago the UFC had at the least a backstory (Thiago Knocking Jardine stiff, and both of them suffering their first losses to Machida)

I'm like PacMan fightin you silly kids... throw ya Hatton the ring, and get knocked outlike Ricky did.
lol.

by Loot on Jan 3, 2010 1:24 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

agreed

This was a cursed card from the beginning. At least there was a backstory to save this card from complete embarassment.

by capt insano on Jan 3, 2010 1:27 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

For the Record...

Rashad took that shot FLUSH…. That shot may have put a lot of guys out cold.

I'm like PacMan fightin you silly kids... throw ya Hatton the ring, and get knocked outlike Ricky did.
lol.

by Loot on Jan 3, 2010 12:12 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

So what?

You should be penalized in the scoring for taking flush shots, regardless whether you go down or not.

by Dexerion on Jan 3, 2010 12:15 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

so a flush shot means u lose?

I'm like PacMan fightin you silly kids... throw ya Hatton the ring, and get knocked outlike Ricky did.
lol.

by Loot on Jan 3, 2010 1:14 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Stephen Bonner said he scored it a draw as well......

But he gave Thiago a 10-8 in the 3rd. I agree. It was a draw.

by Dexerion on Jan 3, 2010 12:14 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

I don’t see how you can give Thiago a 10-8 in round 3.

Twitter: @Mike_Fagan_13
http://www.sackmikegoldberg.com

by Mike Fagan on Jan 3, 2010 12:19 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

You can't

I had this argument last night with a guy, Thiago was just too gassed in the third, he didn’t do nearly enough to score the round 10-8.

by ufc4 on Jan 3, 2010 12:22 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

It would have been a 10-8 round had Thiago not tried to channel his inner Ali (or, to a lesser extent, Paulie Malignaggi).

Twitter: @FlyByKnite

by FlyByKnight on Jan 3, 2010 12:44 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I don’t get it either.

If you’re going by the logic that “rashad didn’t do anything” than you have to say Thiago didn’t do anything in the first round, so that should be 10-8, and Rashad wins anyway.

by Phildo on Jan 3, 2010 1:02 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

This isn't boxing...

Rashad did go down after one of Silva’s punches but that is not how MMA is scored….no automatic 10-8 round from a knockdown.

by capt insano on Jan 3, 2010 1:33 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I’m always wary of using Fight Metric’s scoring. SImply put, judges don’t score the fight that way. And virtually everybody on the interwebs scored it 2-1 Rashad.

I think sometimes the takedown isn’t considered enough for its psychological impact on the judges. Imagine your a judge ringside. Huge amounts of pressure on you and so forth. YOu don’t have the right angle a lot of the time to see whether punches land flush or not, or how much damage they do. But at least with a takedown, its very clear cut. One guy took another guy down, and is on top of him. It makes scoring the round a lot easier.

Now this is brought on IMO by the utter reluctance and complete taboo of giving 10-10 rounds, because as I said, it puts that pressure on the judge to declare a winner when there may have been no clear one. Hence the reliance on the takedown for scoring- Nothing’s clearer than a takedown. If the 10-10 round was used more (ushering in the HUGE problem of frequent draws) this probably would mean more weight given to strikes

by TLow on Jan 3, 2010 12:46 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

Couple of points.

1) Data and statistics should never be the entire point. They should be used to support a point. The FightMetric reports are just a tool (and arguably the best one around) for helping make or break arguments regarding judging decisions. Without an explanation or putting the data into a proper context, it’s near useless.

2) “Virtually everbody” scoring the bout 2-1 to Rashad means jack and shit to me. I’m not saying it’s wrong in this case (and I pointed out that Rashad winning the decision is the optimal or penoptimal score in the article), but having majority support doesn’t make something right. Tons of people still think the Patriots made a mistake going for it on fourth and short against the Colts, but Belichick made the correct decision from a win probability outlook.

Twitter: @Mike_Fagan_13
http://www.sackmikegoldberg.com

by Mike Fagan on Jan 3, 2010 1:27 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

29-28 Evans

I gave the very boring decision win to Rashad. Neither fighter proved to me that they could ever have another chance at the title in a stacked division like the LHW division. Rashad tried to take a page out of GSP’s book and be unpredictable in his striking and td’s when all he did was throw 1-2’s and push Thiago against the cage to get him to the ground. His wrestling looked sad as Thiago didn’t have to do much at all to get back up every time. All Silva had to do was figure out Rashad’s very predictable timing and he couldn’t even do that. Neither of these guys have anything else to offer this division unless they want to go to another organization.

by capt insano on Jan 3, 2010 1:23 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

Analyze, schmanylize

It was clearly Rashads fight 2 rnds to 1 based on clearly outworking Silva. He did more of the same in round 3 sans the big shot and lesser effective flurry after for about 40 seconds. End of story.

by SimplePsych on Jan 3, 2010 1:27 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

I agree with fight metric

it shouldve been a draw… last night I was thinking thiago was able to do the only real damage in the fight so I thought he deserved a 10-8 but even without a 10-8, it still shouldve been a draw.

by cagefightonacid on Jan 3, 2010 1:59 PM EST via mobile reply actions   0 recs

Has anyone given a thought

to the KO loss to Machida has made him gun shy? Everyone handles getting KOd different.

by Riney on Jan 3, 2010 4:43 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

I don’t know which guy you’re referring to, but I didn’t really get that feeling from either guy last night?

Twitter: @Mike_Fagan_13
http://www.sackmikegoldberg.com

by Mike Fagan on Jan 3, 2010 4:53 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

i definitely thought he looked more hesitant but i feel he was tagged a bunch in the liddell fight but didn’t get fazed…. i think he might not take damage as well after the brutal KO

by cagefightonacid on Jan 3, 2010 6:06 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I don’t see why there is all this hate for Rashad after this fight. (Referring to the comments up thread not this article) What stood out to me was how good Silva was at controlling Evans from the bottom and getting straight back up to his feet. It’s not that Evans wasn’t trying to do any damage, he couldn’t. Put him in with someone who isn’t a black belt as good as Silva and see what happens… or you could always ask Forrest Griffin how that would play out.

Sorry, he Jason Bourned me.

by MMAussie on Jan 3, 2010 5:23 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

I think 10-10 in the 2nd is way more plausible than 10-8 in the 3rd. I do think a TD should be counted as the equivalent to an average strike connecting because it does take some wind out your sails if you land hard plus the energy expended to fight the takedown and get back up is usually more than what is expended to ge the TD.
     If half point scoring were used then I would probably go with 10-9.5 for Rashad but in the absence of half points I agreee that 10-10 is more accurate than 10-9 for the 2nd round. Very few people seem to care about the score fo the round actually reflecting the action that just occurred so I guess the good ole 10-9 will continue to be the score dealt out to 90+ % of all scored rounds. Even if they go to some sort of fractional scoring I’m sure 10-9 or 10-9.5 will still be the most common score dealt out but why not give the judges the tools to score a round differently where there is only 1 or 2% difference in efffectiveness versus 11-15% difference in effectiveness.
       Since the 5 fighters that I happened to mention (in th gambling spotlight) all won ( 6 if you count a nod for JDS earlier) I guess I can brag for a second. But my joy is temepered with my meager winnings due my account being wrecked by Jon Jones, swick, Vera , and ahem, anthony johnson.
      Anyway, I’m kicking myslef for not getting in on cain at +150. I dont think even The Nog can deal with Cain’s relentless top control and ground and pound.

by naturalist on Jan 3, 2010 5:25 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

I disagree with your Cain-Nog assessment.

Nog is gonna get pounded on for the first round. Bad. But once he figures out the rhythm that he’s getting punched in the face, he’ll whip up his standard miracle sub.

It’s not that Cain hasn’t fought anybody with Noguiera level jiujitsu. He hasn’t fought anybody with any notable jiujitsu at all. He’ll gain a lot of props from me if he pulls this win out, but I’m not on the hype train yet.

"Someone is WRONG on the internet. What do you want me to do? LEAVE? Then they'll keep being wrong!"
-Randall Munroe

by pdl on Jan 3, 2010 5:39 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

thanks for pointing out my typo. I meant "The Nog CAN NOT deal the with top control. I did get in on Cain at like +110 but I think he was at +150 earlier.
 
Quick question for you guys. Would you actually count thiago’s punch as a knockdown? Replay shows Rashad went down after he was wobbled and pushed down by Thiago.

by naturalist on Jan 3, 2010 6:34 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I need to see a replay

but Rashad’s legs were pudding after that punch. That was enough to get my attention. Respect the power of Thiago Silva. I still think that the rumored ankle injury played a role in this fight. Limited Thiago’s ability to do much conditioning work, hence his mediocre gas tank and inability to finish. He knew it, hence the reluctance to pull the trigger and gas himself early and the inability to finish when he had the chance. And despite that, he wobbled and nearly ended a normally stout chinned Rashad. Whether it was an actual knockdown or not is purely intellectual, he hits HARD.

"Someone is WRONG on the internet. What do you want me to do? LEAVE? Then they'll keep being wrong!"
-Randall Munroe

by pdl on Jan 3, 2010 7:18 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

LOL...Love the Rashad hate...

I love when Rashad wins and people spend alot of time discrediting his performance. So sad. I hope ‘Shad keeps doing what he’s doing. As long as he’s winning, he has the right strategy. Silva rocking him in the 3rd means squat. He didn’t capitalize, he lost the fight. Simple as that. Was it ugly? Hell yeah. Is it a win? According to the judges it was. That’s all that matters.

by Akorn on Jan 3, 2010 8:00 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

I don’t see a lot of people discrediting his performace, personally I think he did enough to win but you have to admit it was not an impressive display.

by ufc4 on Jan 4, 2010 12:27 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

A win is a win

I admit that i got pretty excited when i saw evans using both his striking and wrestling, especially during the first round when he did that 4 punch flurry with 2 to the body followed by a takedown. but when the fight dragged on and thiago was just standing up after every takedown i was like “WTF Rashad?”.

Anyways still a solid win. It wasn’t that boring to me though.

Skadoosh!

by Jigs on Jan 4, 2010 12:06 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

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