More Views on the Brock Lesnar vs Fedor Emelianenko BusinessWeek Rankings
by Kid Nate on Jan 28, 2010 9:31 PM EST
in MMA News
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Our own Michael Rome has commented on the Business Week's "Power 100 Athletes" list that featured both Fedor Emelianenko and Brock Lesnar. But I thought it would be fun to do a round up of what some other writers think on the topic.
Here's James Kimball from MMA Mania's take:
"The Last Emperor" came in at number 82, beating out such names as Danica Patrick and Floyd Mayweather. Brock just cracked the top 100 coming in at number 96. If you're a little surprised with Fedor taking down Lesnar in this particular heavyweight battle, remember that Emelianenko has a far greater global appeal.
While Lesnar was blasting UFC sponsors last summer, Fedor was starring in an incredibly funny Snickers commercial that aired in Asia.
But to properly measure the significance of this perceived breakthrough, we have to combine the appearances of both Lesnar and Fedor in this esteemed list, not compare them.
Nothing against Fedor, Cagewriter has had the Russian legend ranked No. 1 on its pound-for-pound list since it joined Yahoo! Sports in June of 2008, but it's hard to make a case that he has the biggest financial might in the MMA world. By the end of 2010, with two more CBS fights under his belt, maybe. But right now Lesnar, who just appeared on ESPN's SportsCenter last week, and American stars Randy Couture, Chuck Liddell and Tito Ortiz along with French-Canadian phenom Georges St. Pierre would all appear to have more economic impact.
The list has to based solely on U.S. influence since the top five athletes are Tiger Woods, LeBron James, Phil Mickelson, Albert Pujols and Peyton Manning. If it's a worldwide ranking, there's no soccer player worthy of the top five? Or international stars with huge followings in their homeland like Yao Ming or Manny Pacquiao?
Now obviously lists like this are mostly fluff and don’t mean anything, but I would still agree that Fedor should be ahead of Brock in business power rankings based on the fact that he’s the only major fighter right now who fights for his own promotion company, M-1 Global. The fact that anyone booking Fedor has to ‘co-promote’ with him shows how much power he’s got.
Personally I think they're both clearly lagging behind Kimbo Slice in terms of general pop culture appeal. Sad as that may be.
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No david beckham or c ronaldo in the top 5 makes this list null n void
by Roujam on Jan 28, 2010 6:59 PM EST via mobile reply actions
Interesting
The list has to based solely on U.S. influence since the top five athletes are Tiger Woods, LeBron James, Phil Mickelson, Albert Pujols and Peyton Manning. If it’s a worldwide ranking, there’s no soccer player worthy of the top five? Or international stars with huge followings in their homeland like Yao Ming or Manny Pacquiao?
Good point. Considering that, I have no idea how/why Fedor makes this list.
by Chris Barton on Jan 28, 2010 7:00 PM EST reply actions 2 recs
If it’s a worldwide ranking, there’s no soccer player worthy of the top five? Or international stars with huge followings in their homeland like Yao Ming or Manny Pacquiao?
This is true, Cofield speaks the truth, I think that’s a great argument and this is a list based on US national impact and not world wide.
Pain is Temporary
Pride is Forever
by Orcus on Jan 28, 2010 7:00 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
Brock’s last 2 fights made over $100 million combined in PPV sales, I think that pretty much sums up who has more power to me.
But Strikeforce and Shotwime plans on using Fedor to catapult themselves into major promotion category, so his impact may prove greater. If Lensar retires tomorrow the UFC will still be here, while Strikeforce/Showtime’s future kind of depends on Fedor.
That said, I think it’s kind of pointless to try and figure out what specifics we should use to calculate which one belongs higher on a subjective list. We should all be happy that the sport is taken serious enough that two fighters made the top 100.
But Strikeforce and Shotwime plans on using Fedor to catapult themselves into major promotion category
Where have I heard this before….
an episode of pinky and the brain i think
by ruckus on Jan 28, 2010 7:17 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
*what are we going to do today Vadim?
*the same thing we do everyday Fedor, trying to take over the world!
Pain is Temporary
Pride is Forever
by Orcus on Jan 28, 2010 7:31 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
Fedor has fought live venues
with crowds multiple times greater than anything Brock has done in the UFC.
It is very difficult to argue just on sales numbers, since Fedor has fought on broadcast television over and over again while Brock is always PPV. Not to mention that Brock gets huge bonuses from the UFC brand, having been on the incredibly marketed centennial card, and having been supported on that by a TUF coaches fight and one of the other UFCs top draws in GSP. To say that Brock alone drew those numbers is disingenuous. He is still the largest draw in MMA, but to claim he should be above Fedor by comparing UFC 100 sales to Affliction: DOR sales is not a compelling argument.
"Someone is WRONG on the internet. What do you want me to do? LEAVE? Then they'll keep being wrong!"
-Randall Munroe
In the last two years Fedor has only fought 3 times and only one of those was on network (very few people actually watched the two Affliction events). Also a big chunk of this is based on us marketing power with advertisers, does Fedor have any of that at all? and more importantly did he have that much at all in the vast majority of the two years they looked at(his network fight in November was at the very end of the time frame they were examining).
I missed a few of the criteria initially.
Within the time limitation, you are correct. As for his marketability in the US, the next CBS show will tell us about that. He did decent ratings last time. If he can get all of those eyes back and some word-of-mouth hype, he’ll be a very powerful force to advertisers. Not sponsors, but mainstream companies buying expensive ad space. I think that’s arguably more important than Jack Links Beef Jerky and one outstandingly successful but heavily supported PPV.
I was surprised at the list and disagreed initially, but I think I’m starting to change my mind. Not sure where I stand right now…
"Someone is WRONG on the internet. What do you want me to do? LEAVE? Then they'll keep being wrong!"
-Randall Munroe
I think that perhaps in 2010 it will make sense if Fedor does two more big CBS shows this year but for 2009 I just don’t know. Fedor’s big showing just barely made it into the time frame they were looking at. Of course Brock was out for much of 2009 so maybe that played into this in a significant way, still Fedor just doesn’t have any marketing muscle in the US and his name recognition is lagging well behind Lesnar’s in the US.
Yes but the people who actually made the list disagree.
by scrambledeggs on Jan 28, 2010 8:19 PM EST up reply actions
Actually how do we know if they disagree with anything I just said? Perhaps they really are just weighing Fedor’s CBS fight and number one fighter rating on Sherdog against the fact that Brock only fought once in 2009. They didn’t break down their scoring for these people or why they just put a name on the list and gave the briefest of breakdowns of who they were/what they did in 2009. Heck even in their listing they have none down for major sponsors for Fedor, that right there agrees completely with what I wrote above.
You're making some claims that aren't totally true.
Fedor is big enough to get CBS to agree to show MMA again. That is significant power. The viewership skyrocketed for his fight. There were no issues getting ad space sold on a card that hinged on his name and skills.
Again, I still don’t know. Both of them are monumental figures in MMA today. I agree that Lesnar’s inactivity hurt his standing a lot, but the more I consider the arguments the harder it is to pick a side. I’d say they are almost interchangeable in terms of a numberic ranking and almost incomparable in terms of their business accomplishments and potential.
"Someone is WRONG on the internet. What do you want me to do? LEAVE? Then they'll keep being wrong!"
-Randall Munroe
Your making assumptions here. CBS was talking about putting Striekforce on long before Fedor ever came up in the discussion. They didn’t just agree to do it because of Fedor they just snagged him to stick in a headliner. As for selling ad space how do you know that Fedor was the reason ads sold, heck how do you know there were no issues? Do you work for CBS? Do you have inside information that no one else has? CBS went with Fedor as a headliner and this CBS show actually sold it’s ad slots, beyond that your just jumping to a lot of conclusions.
As for the viewership skyrocketing, the viewership always skyrockets for the headline fights like that on free shows, particularly when they run overtime. That would of only been notable if they hadn’t got a run over jump in ratings.
CBS sold all of the ad space way before they expected to.
That says something about the value of both Fedor and credible MMA as a whole. As for why the ads sold… they sold because advertisers expected good ratings. Fedor was the draw of the card. Fedor also drew the most eyes, just like he was supposed to. As for the run over argument… that sounds incredibly flimsy. You’re grasping at straws.
And don’t you remember all of us wondering what it would take to convince CBS to put on a show? Sure they talked about it, but Coker needed something big to convince them. CBS wasnt keen on it until Carano vs. Cyborg happened and the promise of Fedor. The combination of the two sold them.
"Someone is WRONG on the internet. What do you want me to do? LEAVE? Then they'll keep being wrong!"
-Randall Munroe
CBS selling all the ads is great and all but that doesn’t mean you can just go and attribute that to Fedor (especially in regards to this article) unless you are going to attribute all the ads sold for UFC 100 replays on Spike and all the UFC unleashed episodes with Lesnar fights. Advertisers know what demographics to expect from MMA events and what CBS has done in the past and that has as much to do with selling ad time on the show as it does having Fedor headlining the show.
As far as the run over goes it’s not grasping at straws at all. A ratings jump can just as easily mean that the rest of the card was underperforming ratingswise, heck you can attribute the big jump to Gina Carano not being on the card before Fedor like she was on the two Kimbo CBS shows. Heck lets just compare the ratings directly to other major US MMA fights:
Fedor vs Rogers did 5.46 million viewers
http://www.mmanews.com/other/Strikeforce:-Fedor-Vs.-Rogers-Ratings-From-CBS.html
MOST-WATCHED INDIVIDUAL FIGHTS IN U.S. MMA HISTORY
Based on Average Number of Viewers using Minute-by-Minute Ratings
1. EliteXC on CBS (5/31/2008): Kimbo Slice vs. James Thompson—- 7.281 million viewers (Aired from 11:27 PM to 11:40 PM)
2. UFC on Spike TV (10/10/2006): Tito Ortiz vs. Ken Shamrock—- 6.524 million viewers (Aired from 9:42 PM to 9:45 PM)
3. EliteXC on CBS (10/4/08): Seth Petruzelli vs. Kimbo Slice—- 6.451 million viewers (Aired from 11:08 PM to 11:08 PM)
4. EliteXC on CBS (5/31/2008): Robbie Lawler vs. Scott Smith—- 5.867 million viewers (Aired from 10.39 PM to 10:57 PM)
5. UFC on Spike TV (9/8/2007): Quinton Jackson vs. Dan Henderson—- 5.811 million viewers (Aired from 11:29 PM to 12:03 AM)
6. EliteXC on CBS (5/31/2008): Gina Carano vs. Kaitlin Young—- 5.508 million viewers (Aired from 10:09 PM to 10:17 PM)
7. UFC on Spike TV (9/8/2007): Michael Bisping vs. Matt Hamill—- 5.475 million viewers (Aired from 10:41 PM to 11:06 PM)
8. EliteXC on CBS (10/4/08): Jake Shields vs. Paul Daley—- 5.338 million viewers (Aired from 10:34 PM to 10:44 PM)
9. EliteXC on CBS (10/4/08): Gina Carano vs. Kelly Kobold—- 5.171 million viewers (Aired from 9:45 PM to 9:59 PM)
10. EliteXC on CBS (10/4/08): Andrei Arlovski vs. Roy Nelson—- 5.154 million viewers (Aired from 10:12 PM to 10:20 PM)
11. UFC on Spike TV (10/10/2006): Kendall Grove vs. Chris Price—- 5.100 million viewers (Aired from 9:13 PM to 9:17 PM)
12. UFC on Spike TV (9/8/2007): Cheick Kongo vs. Mirko Cro Cop Filipovic—- 5.098 million viewers (Aired from 9:58 PM to 10:24 PM)
13. UFC on Spike TV (9/8/2007): Marcus Davis vs. Paul Taylor—- 5.023 million viewers (Aired from 9:35 PM to 9:39 PM)
14. UFC on Spike TV (7/19/2008): Anderson Silva vs. James Irvin—- 4.795 million viewers (Aired from 11:38 PM to 11:38 PM)
15. EliteXC on CBS (5/31/2008): Joey Villasenor vs. Phil Baroni—- 4.348 million viewers (Aired from 9:47 PM to 9:48 PM)
16. UFC on Spike TV (10/10/2006): Jason MacDonald vs. Ed Herman—- 4.297 millon viewers (Aired from 8:44 PM to 8:47 PM)
17. UFC on Spike TV (9/8/2007): Houston Alexander vs. Alessio Sakara—- 4.204 million viewers (Aired from 9:13 PM to 9:14 PM)
18. UFC on Spike TV (10/10/2006): Matt Hamill vs. Seth Petruzelli—- 4.007 million viewers (Aired from 8:09 PM to 8:28 PM)
19. UFC on Spike TV (7/19/2008): Brandon Vera vs. Reese Andy—- 3.847 million viewers (Aired from 10:58 PM to 11:19 PM)
20. EliteXC on CBS (5/31/2008): Brett Rogers vs. Jon Murphy—- 3.824 million viewers (Aired from 9:26 PM to 9:27 PM)
http://www.mmaweekly.com/absolutenm/templates/dailynews.asp?articleid=7362&zoneid=1
So Fedor vs Rogers comes in 8 on the list, right below Bisping vs Hamill. Can we stop talking about just how impressive Fedor’s ratings are now?
by who me on Jan 28, 2010 10:38 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
What’s really sad is that the actual number one watched MMA fight in the US would be Carly vs Shelby Marx on Nickelodeon. Yes a fake MMA fight on a pre-teen show on a kids network crushed all real US mma events with it’s 7.9 million viewers.
In all fairness
It was a pretty good fight.
by John Nash on Jan 29, 2010 1:14 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I don’t recall comparing UFC 100 sales to anything.
by ufc4 on Jan 28, 2010 8:04 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Seriously?
Brock’s last 2 fights made over $100 million combined in PPV sales, I think that pretty much sums up who has more power to me.
Key:
Bold: Reference to UFC 100.
Phrase denoting a comparison.
If you weren’t comparing UFC 100 to anything, then your two statements are unrelated gibberish. Can you clarify?
"Someone is WRONG on the internet. What do you want me to do? LEAVE? Then they'll keep being wrong!"
-Randall Munroe
Yes, I referenced UFC 100, YOU compared it to Affliction: DOR, not I. I was simply making a statement about the insane amounts of money he brings in for his company.
by ufc4 on Jan 28, 2010 8:29 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Alright...
So Brock drew a lot of money to the UFC. That’s your first sentence. What was the second one? He has more power than who, and based on what?
"Someone is WRONG on the internet. What do you want me to do? LEAVE? Then they'll keep being wrong!"
-Randall Munroe
There are a helluva lot more ways a fighter can bring in revenue than PPV sales, and Strikeforce isn’t even on PPV yet so that’s why I didn’t bring up Fedor’s sales numbers. But based on the number I stated I think it’s pretty obvious who generates more revenue, unless CBS paid Strikeforce 8 figures for the card back in November, which I’m about 99.99999985 percent sure they didn’t.
by ufc4 on Jan 28, 2010 8:40 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
You are speaking in nonsequiters, sir.
I asked what your second sentence meant. You seem reluctant to clarify the meaning within the context of the original post. Unless you have a change of heart on that issue, I have nothing else to say here.
"Someone is WRONG on the internet. What do you want me to do? LEAVE? Then they'll keep being wrong!"
-Randall Munroe
Personally I think they’re both clearly lagging behind Kimbo Slice in terms of general pop culture appeal. Sad as that may be.
Yeah possibly… and the online search/buzz data that we put out would support that. But I think the Kimbo mystique among casuals is at serious risk. It can only take so many hits: High profile Petruzelli KO, frustrating TUF 10 loss, and the drawn out ugly win over Houston. At some point I suspect casuals will stop caring. Or heck, maybe not. He is Kimbo after all.
However, we’ve seen both Kimbo and Fedor headline cards on CBS, which is an interesting comparison. While Kimbo might have drawn the bigger ratings (correct?) I think I felt more palpable excitement among non-MMA-fan friends and random sports fans about Fedor. With all of the hype (and slightly cheesy marketing), but then Fedor also DELIVERING on the build-up with the exciting fight and huge KO over Rogers… that really means something. Fedor became a twitter trending topic, was water cooler talk the next day, etc… Basically, I’d say that despite the lower ratings, Fedor may have come out the winner in the “Fedor vs Kimbo CBS Headline Duel.” Kimbo didn’t generate any new fans when he headlined on CBS, whereas I think Fedor generated about 4 million new fans.
Question is… what would happen if, say… Lesnar vs Carwin had taken place as originally scheduled this past November, AND was on network TV, with the UFC brand name behind it? I suspect Brock might have beat out all of them.
www.tapology.com | twitter @tapology
However, we’ve seen both Kimbo and Fedor headline cards on CBS, which is an interesting comparison. While Kimbo might have drawn the bigger ratings (correct?) I think I felt more palpable excitement among non-MMA-fan friends and random sports fans about Fedor.
Yes, Kimbo got higher ratings:
The complete broadcast of Fedor vs. Rogers, which concluded at 11:24 p.m., drew an average of 4.04 million viewers.
Of the four MMA broadcasts on CBS, Fedor vs. Rogers ranks third, led by EliteXC’s "Primetime," which averaged 4.85 million viewers, and "Heat," which drew 4.56 million viewers. Both were bolstered by the presence of breakout stars Kimbo Slice and Gina Carano. CBS’ July 2008 broadcast of Elite XC’s "Unfinished Business" ranked last with an average of 2:57 million viewers.
I think Kimbo on PPV is a really interesting thing.
I’ve said it before but I’ll say it again. I don’t think he can draw as well on PPV now because of two things:
1) No one has ever paid to watch Kimbo fight. Youtube, CBS and Spike TV. That is very different from plunking down $50.
2) He has not looked impressive since the Tank Abbott fight. The Thompson fight didn’t seem to hurt his appeal, the Petruzelli fight didn’t, the Nelson TUF thing didn’t seem to, will the Alexander fight? The first time where he was actively boring in a fight. Maybe it was Houston’s fight, maybe it wasn’t. Regardless, at some point people are going to stop caring.
Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
MMA Editor - SBNation.com
by Brent Brookhouse on Jan 28, 2010 7:50 PM EST up reply actions
The Kimboplex has to be worth at least 900k PPV buys on its own.
I specializes in grammar fail.
by a tommy point on Jan 28, 2010 7:56 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Of course, this probably cancels out 750k of those buys:
I specializes in grammar fail.
by a tommy point on Jan 28, 2010 8:01 PM EST up reply actions
This is the best fail gif ever
since it supplies its own facepalm.
"Someone is WRONG on the internet. What do you want me to do? LEAVE? Then they'll keep being wrong!"
-Randall Munroe
Kimbo/Mercer was on PPV? Not that it was a huge succes but it was on PPV.
by scrambledeggs on Jan 28, 2010 7:58 PM EST up reply actions
A) wasn’t a pro fight
B) no one bought it
I also don’t believe it wasn’t carried by all means (cable, dish network, directv)
Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
MMA Editor - SBNation.com
by Brent Brookhouse on Jan 28, 2010 8:03 PM EST up reply actions
i think putting him on this ppv is going to be the big kimbo ppv experiment. I don’t think putting him on the Spike show makes sense, because I’m not sure if people will buy the ppv after seeing Kimbo fight. I think an hour of “see kimbo on ppv” will do more for ppv sales than showing Kimbo on Spike and then saying, “buy the ppv”
It would be nice to know the ratings break down from the finale before and after Kimbo fought, to see how many kimbo fans stuck around.
Kimbo selling on ppv is not a given, because of the things you said, but if they can get people to pay for him, that would be great, if not, he can stay on Spike from now on.
If you check out the article 50% of the criteria is based on the athlete’s performance in their field.
So considering Fedor hasn’t lost a fight in nearly nine years that probably has something to do with his ranking.
The on field isn’t just about athletic performance it also includes things like money earned from the sport. It’s 50% inside the sport and 50% outside of the sport for 2008 and 2009. They don’t care about him not losing a fight in 9 years they only care about what he has done in the last two and it’s not just about his record it’s about overall performance inside the sport in every aspect.
Working with Horrow Sports Ventures and CSE, an integrated sports and marketing firm in Atlanta, Bloomberg BusinessWeek.com developed the methodology for the 2010 edition of the Power 100 ranking of the most powerful athletes in professional sports. The Power 100 rankings are based on a blended mix of athletes’ “on-field” and “off-field” performance to determine which athletes are having the greatest overall impact in the world of sports. On-field scoring is determined by statistically ranking each athlete’s sports performance within his or her peer group over a two-year period. For each sport, key performance metrics include such measures as points scored, money earned, laps lead, and batting average, to name a few. This ranking is then adjusted by the overall popularity of the sport itself, based on an index of fan avidity and TV viewership. The off-field scoring is developed from hundreds of surveys on athletes and how the general public perceives them. The data was compiled by E-Poll Market Research, a leading provider of custom research services and products for entertainment and media companies, using their E-Score® Celebrity database. Athlete rankings are based on such attributes as awareness, appeal, trustworthiness, and influence. In addition, the amount of endorsement dollars each athlete earns rounds out the off-field ranking.
http://www.businessweek.com/lifestyle/content/jan2010/bw20100120_150140.htm
Do you want to be a fucking economist?
I specializes in grammar fail.
by a tommy point on Jan 28, 2010 7:31 PM EST up reply actions
Nice satchel. Just like the one Indiana Jones carries
by KING FEDOR on Jan 29, 2010 7:06 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
I think publications like making up BS lists with no logic so people will talk about the newspaper/magazine/website more often. Heck, this very website does it with their rankings.
What a genuinely stupid thing to say...
Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
MMA Editor - SBNation.com
by Brent Brookhouse on Jan 28, 2010 8:04 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
What do you think P4P discussions are all about? Or even ranking UFC and non-UFC fighters when they have no chance of fighting against each other? It’s just a way to increase web traffic for websites.
Debating who should be ranked higher, Mousasi or Griffin has no basis in reality since they have ZERO chance of fighting right now due to the way the sport is run.
Power Athletes List? Give me a break. They are comparing different sports that have no basis for each other. And this idea of “power”. Just made up. What a guy is worth is shown in his contract size and his endorsement deals.
So, like
You’ve heard of a sports forum/blog, right? You know what this is?
You can discuss sports without just talking in hypotheticals.
I’ll gladly talk about the pro’s and con’s of GSP vs. Hardy…. Why? Because the fight is going to happen. It’s a reality in March.
GSP vs. Shields? Until Shields signs with the UFC…. It’s about as real as Avatar.
Talking about GSP vs Hardy is all hypothetical cuz we don’t know what’s gonna happen.
by ufc4 on Jan 28, 2010 8:24 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
There is a date, location, and venue for GSP vs. Hardy. It’s not different then debating who is going to win the Super Bowl. We know the game will happen.
GSP vs. Shields has no way of happening. Neither does Mousasi vs. Griffin. They are in different leagues. It’s like rankings a MLB Team and a Japanese Team in the same rankings. It has no basis of reality. They have no chances of fighting until one of the athletes changes leagues.
There was also a date, location, and venue for Fedor vs. Barnett.
by ufc4 on Jan 28, 2010 8:34 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
That discussion was still based in reality
Unlike you.
Have you visited the internet before?
'He built his whole reputation as a waffle house chef. They’ve been serving him up ham and eggs with a side of canned tomatoes' - Don Frye on Fedor Emelianenko
by Well Read Idiot on Jan 29, 2010 4:16 AM EST up reply actions
So to prove my point….
Brock Lesnar can generate 1.7 Million PPV Buys for the UFC. Fedor Emelianenko can’t even generate 150,000 for Affliction.
Lesnar is worth more. End of story. This idea of power is a made up idea.
So...
You’re saying Lesnar is better at an idea you say is made up? Cool, bro.
Jake Shields has more mana points than Anderson Silva!
"Someone is WRONG on the internet. What do you want me to do? LEAVE? Then they'll keep being wrong!"
-Randall Munroe
by pdl on Jan 28, 2010 8:12 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Money is not made up. Lesnar generated 1.7 Million X $50. That’s a number based in reality.
What has Fedor brought in?
Interesting, but retarded.
Lesnar was on the most heavily advertised UFC card of all time, featuring a whole season of TUF hype (Bisping vs. Hendo) and one of the top draws in MMA (GSP). Of course Brock and his back and forth with Mir are responsible for a ton of those buys, but to say Lesnar generated that money alone is insane. An unprecedented media push, TUF, GSP, and an opponent interested in selling the fight were all instrumental to that number.
Fedor was the driving force behind putting Strikeforce on CBS. The advertising dollars from that show, while not officially disclosed, are huge. And that was only his first fight, we will see if he can repeat or improve those ratings on the next show.
"Someone is WRONG on the internet. What do you want me to do? LEAVE? Then they'll keep being wrong!"
-Randall Munroe
Do you honestly think the people at business week made that kind of distinction or if they just compared headliner against headliner?
I couldn't tell you.
They might have. They might not. No way to tell.
"Someone is WRONG on the internet. What do you want me to do? LEAVE? Then they'll keep being wrong!"
-Randall Munroe
If the advertising dollars are not disclosed, how do you know they are huge? You talking funny business here.
You are downplaying Lesnar’s worth. He can generate millions more then Fedor. It’s as simple as that.
UFC PPV numbers are not officially disclosed.
You are talking funny business here.
I think Lesnar is incredibly valuable. He may be the biggest draw in MMA. PPV numbers and network numbers are impossible to compare, so I can’t say who is bigger between Lesnar vs. Fedor, Kimbo, or Carano.
"Someone is WRONG on the internet. What do you want me to do? LEAVE? Then they'll keep being wrong!"
-Randall Munroe
When you start to question one of the most reliable sources in MMA today, you quickly lose your position in a discussion.
Oh, you mean like you do below?
Right. Your skepticism can’t have artificial boundries and still be credible.
"Someone is WRONG on the internet. What do you want me to do? LEAVE? Then they'll keep being wrong!"
-Randall Munroe
I’m talking about you saying we make up BS lists with no logic with our rankings…when we don’t make up a fucking thing
Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
MMA Editor - SBNation.com
by Brent Brookhouse on Jan 28, 2010 8:56 PM EST up reply actions 3 recs
Fightlinker’s point is stupid. Fedor doesn’t have power. The organizations just refuse to accept common sense. When you see organization after organization who touches this guy go out of business…. Why would you sign him to the same terms?
And yes, that’s talking to you Scott Coker and Strikeforce!!
well technically 2 out of 3 organisations that relied on him got bought out by UFC
1st pride, then affliction
elitexc…well we will let that one slide
by jackrussell on Jan 28, 2010 10:35 PM EST up reply actions
I don’t know about “drawing power” being better than Brock’s, especially in a heavily U.S based list.
That being said, i think people do underestimate how much people care about this guy in the states. In both the Sylvia and Rogers fights, he was cheered on by quite a huge margin over the hometown american fighter (and delivered two awesome finishes.)
Also, his presence basically saved the CBS broadcast by pulling in those late numbers. So he’s a pretty big force, disproportionate to some UFC fighters because they’re part of a more established brand with deeper roster and more interchangeable fighters.Fedor is certainly not interchangeable…
People coming in to watch the news saved the broadcast.
Fedor has no drawing power on PPV. This has been proven time and time again. His best showing on PPV isn’t even half of what UFC 108 did.
I didn’t devote my screen name to one half of this discussion.
I never said Fedor sucks. I said Fedor has no drawing power. Or to say it better, he can’t generate money like even the Top 10 draws of the UFC can.
My screen name
is sarcasm.
What do you thin Buisness Weeks angle is?
To rile up the UFC and Dana White fans.
To sell magazines. Which is why they are going to put as many different sports in this list as possible. Get as many eyeballs on it as possible.
Do you think the people at that magazine have any clue about MMA? They don’t. Which is why it is so funny that people are putting actual weight into this thing.
Power = Money. They should have just made a list of sport’s biggest earners. Oh wait, SI already does that….
"People coming in to watch the news saved the broadcast"
lol…I’d like to know if you actually believe this complete BS.
by scrambledeggs on Jan 28, 2010 8:15 PM EST up reply actions
What is BS about it? An entire generation is scheduled to flip on the news at a specific time every day. Fedor’s fight started around that time. To think that the timing had no help in the ratings bump is to deny very basic viewing habits.
What troll stops when so many people are so intent to keep feeding him? Good grief half his points seem serious and half are just crazy talk, just stop replying to him.
I learned my lesson
Unfortunately it took me two hours to learn that lesson…
In the coveted male 18-34 group (who don’t normally watch CBS on Saturday nights), the ratings increased from 2.2 during the 9-11 PM portion to 3.1 during the main event,, so it’s hard for me to see how the "vast majority" of the additional 1.5 million viewers were tuning into the 11 PM news. There is no way that the Saturday 11 PM news on CBS draws that many young male viewers.
And show me the increase of the older demographic for a side by side comparison…. That’s the only way you can prove it was mostly the younger fanbase.
Dave Meltzer’s Wrestling Observer (http://www.f4wonline.com/) – need a subscription but here’s an excerpt:
As far as match-by-match ratings, Werdum vs. Silva gained 113,000 viewers and did a 2.15. Mousasi vs. Sokoudjou gained 178,000 viewers and did a 2.25. Jake Shields vs. Jason Miller gained 504,000 viewers and did a 2.63 rating. However, it peaked during the third round and lost 79,000 viewers in the fourth and fifth round.
The Emelianenko vs. Brett Rogers fight gained 1,493,000 viewers from the prior quarter, the second largest audience gain for any live fight in the short history of the sport on U.S. television. The record setting gain for a fight was 1,643,000 for the Gina Carano vs. Kelly Kobold fight on October 4, 2008 when Elite XC was on CBS.
That doesn’t back up your statement from above. In fact, it’s completely different information that doesn’t go into the demographics.
Listed is the 18-34 demos go to http://www.mastergamer.com/ for the minute by minute overalls and compare the two.
In addition ratings are based on the fact that someone watches something for the measured quarter, not that they just happened to flick the channel on during that 15 -minutes. Older Americans who happened to turn on the fight by accident for news would most likely have changed the channel to another station and as such would not have been watching long enough to count towards the overall ratings. But here is the interesting fact, immediately following his KO of Brett viewing jumped another 300,000 as channel surfers stumbled upon the replies. These 300,000 extra viewers were not counted in any ratings.
by John Nash on Jan 28, 2010 8:51 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I assume you are referring to the November 13th entry. Once again, does not back up your statement of the increased viewership being an increase of a specific demographic.
He is the one making claims with specific numbers. And now he can’t name the source. Which means he made up those numbers.
Couldn’t because I am working and don’t have time to do your research for you, could it? How about you subscribe to the wrestling observer and save me some time, But here you go:
Strikeforces ratings from 11:00 -11:15
The main event of CBS SATURDAY NIGHT FIGHTS featuring Fedor Emelianenko vs. Brett Rogers reached 5.46 million viewers while drawing impressive young adult and male demographic ratings, according to Nielsen live plus same day ratings from 11:00-11:15 PM on Saturday, Nov. 7. The demographic ratings include a 3.5/10 in men 25-54, 3.3/11 in men 18-49 and 3.1/12 in men 18-34, 2.5/7 rating in adults 25-54, 2.4/8 in adults 18-49 and 2.4/09 in adults 18-34.
Link: http://www.mmanews.com/other/Strikeforce:-Fedor-Vs.-Rogers-Ratings-From-CBS.html
Compare to ratings for last 30 minuted for all 18-49
10:30 p.m. – Viewers: 4.01 million (#3), A18-49: 1.8/ 6 (#1)
Link: http://tvbythenumbers.com/2009/11/08/tv-ratings-saturday-strikeforce-fedor-vs-rogers-averages-3-79-million-in-prime-time-on-cbs/32941
Notice something? 18-49 went up from 1.8 to 2.4 during Fedor’s fight. Not really the target audience is it for CBS news? Now either you subscribe to WO or Variety so you can see the breakdown for yourself or you link me a source that prove’s I’m wrong.
Oh, and a .6 share is equivalent to over 1.3 million viewers.
Okay, now let me tell you where you are just flat out wrong in certain assumptions.
From your original statement: “In the coveted male 18-34 group (who don’t normally watch CBS on Saturday nights), the ratings increased from 2.2 during the 9-11 PM portion to 3.1 during the main event”
You are taking an average of an entire 2 hour program and comparing it to the overtime part. To make a proper comparison, you would need to see the difference between 10:30/11 to 11/11:15. That is a true indicator of how that demographic changed from one time period to the next.
The beginning of the program of course would reduce that number down because there were just less viewers.
You went from talking about the 18-34 demographic to now talking about both genders from 18 to 49. You still have yet to prove your initial statement.
Did you make those numbers up?
Overall key demos from 9:00-11:00 pm
Househoulds: 2.3
M1834: 2.2
M1849: 2.3
9:00 p.m. – Viewers: 3.50 million (#4), A18-49: 1.5/ 5 (#3)
9:30 p.m. – Viewers: 3.53 million (#4), A18-49: 1.6/ 5 (#2)
10:00 p.m. – Viewers: 4.12 million (#3), A18-49: 1.9/ 6 (#1)
10:30 p.m. – Viewers: 4.01 million (#3), A18-49: 1.8/ 6 (#1)
Source:http://tvbythenumbers.com/2009/11/08/tv-ratings-saturday-strikeforce-fedor-vs-rogers-averages-3-79-million-in-prime-time-on-cbs/32941
From 11:00-11:15
3.3/11 in men 18-49 and 3.1/12 in men 18-34, 2.4/8 in adults 18-49 and 2.4/09 in adults 18-34.
Source:http://www.mmanews.com/other/Strikeforce:-Fedor-Vs.-Rogers-Ratings-From-CBS.html
But here is your problem:
From your original statement: "In the coveted male 18-34 group (who don’t normally watch CBS on Saturday nights), the ratings increased from 2.2 during the 9-11 PM portion to 3.1 during the main event"
You are taking an average of an entire 2 hour program and comparing it to the overtime part. To make a proper comparison, you would need to see the difference between 10:30/11 to 11/11:15. That is a true indicator of how that demographic changed from one time period to the next.
Unfortunately all we have are the 18-34 overalls (1.7) and the 18-49 adults overalls (1.7) and at 10:30-11:00 (1.8) and the corresponding overall viewers (3.79 mil) and at 10:30-11:00 (4.01 mil). Notice how the 18-49 seems to match the 18-34 overalls. I think we can safely assume that male viewers where not turning on the tv in the last half hour as an equal number of females was turning off the TV.
Key info:
overall viewers went from 3.94 from 9-11 and 4.01 million at 10:30 to 5.46 million from 11-11:15.
18-34 males went from 2.2 overall 9-11 to 3.1 from 11:00-11:15 – a .9 increase
18-49 males went from 2.3 overall 9-11 to 3.3 from 11:00-11:15 a 1.0 increase
all 18-34 adults went from a 1.7 overall 9-11 to 2.4 at 11:00-11:15 – a .7 increase
all 18-49 adults went from a 1.7 overall 9-11 to 1.8 at 10:30 to 2.4 from 11:00-11:15 – a .7 increase
all 25-54 adults went from 1.7 overall to a 2.3 from 11:00-11:15 – a .6 increase
Isn’t it remarkable that all adults 25-54 went up .6 from 9-11 to 11-11:15 but that 18-34 males went up .9 from 9-11 to 11-11:15 and 18-49 males went up a full point in that time frame. That the increase in ratings actually shrinks the wider you cast the demographic net? What could that mean? That young men must be twice as likely to tune in to the 11:00 CBS news than any other demographic group?
Did you make those numbers up?
Are you incapable of hitting a link?
And I did name the my original source: The Wrestling Observer which has a complete breakdown of the demos of that event. You can also find it on Variety and a more detailed breakdown on TV y the Numbers. Unfortunately you need a subscription to all of those for full access.
Shit, I actually thought I posted this:
"The main event of CBS SATURDAY NIGHT FIGHTS featuring Fedor Emelianenko vs. Brett Rogers reached 5.46 million viewers while drawing impressive young adult and male demographic ratings, according to Nielsen live plus same day ratings from 11:00-11:15 PM on Saturday, Nov. 7. The demographic ratings include a 3.5/10 in men 25-54, 3.3/11 in men 18-49 and 3.1/12 in men 18-34, 2.5/7 rating in adults 25-54, 2.4/8 in adults 18-49 and 2.4/09 in adults 18-34."
"For the entire broadcast, CBS SATURDAY NIGHT FIGHTS (S) (9:00-11:24PM) averaged 4.04m viewers, winning its time period among adults 18-34 and men 18-34, and delivering ratings significantly higher than the Network’s season to date averages in the time period among young adult and male demos. The ratings include a 1.8/06 in adults 18-49, 1.8/07 in adults 18-34, 2.6/07 in men 25-54, 2.5/08 in men 18-49 and 2.3/09 in men 18-34."
And I was mistaken, it went from 2.3 to 3.1 not 2.2.
Before you get too wrapped in what the numbers mean remember that there are only 12,000 nielsen households that all these ratings are based on. These aren’t real numbers they are statistical projections.
And yet TV executives make a huge deal about these numbers.
No question that that Nielsen ratings are horrible. They are still the standard for how TV revenues are determined through advertising.
As is stated above, I’m not claiming he has more drawing power than Lesnar, because I don’t think anyone does.
But regardless of that, I guess there’s a school of thought out there that says Fedor is basically some Russian unknown with little American marketability. I’m saying that’s not true, and that perhaps people underestimate his popularity in the states. I’m also pretty sceptical of the idea that it was newswatchers that saved the CBS broadcast. It’s a pretty dramatic jump there….
Misssing the point?
Instead of arguing about Fedor being ranked ahead of Brock shouldn’t we be applauding the fact that MMA is on this list?
That was my point exactly king fedor
It’s not not meant for a comparison of the two fighters, but rather a talking point as to the relevance of MMA in non sports-focused, and certainly non MMA-focused, publications like Business Week.
by James Kimball on Jan 28, 2010 10:49 PM EST up reply actions
I dont know
If you switch Fedor to UFC PPV and Lesnar to CBS, we can easily see the difference.
I like Fedor but Lesnar is way more powerful right now.
If we merit Fedor for being the reason SF in shown in CBS, imagine the excitement of Coker and CBS if Lesnar presented himself to SF on Network TV.
Fedor’s current power is more situational than a product of his own marketability. I think.
I am. I think. I will. - Ayn Rand
I agree with all of that but I was thinking about the way they determined these rankings and noticed that reliability with sponsors was a big part of this and that is one thing Lesnar isn’t. I wonder if his big mouth and blatant political views knocked him down the list because that isn’t something that appeals to advertisers? This may actually be more of Lesnar hurting his own marketability due to his personality rather than them actually thinking Fedor is better known.
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