Fedor Emelianenko or Brock Lesnar: Who Is the More Powerful Brand?
by Michael Rome on Jan 28, 2010 1:21 PM EST
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Businessweek's decision to rank Fedor Emelianenko ahead of Brock Lesnar in the power 100 ranking of athletes has spurred a lot of discussion. On its face, it's absurd. Both men compete in American promotions, and Brock Lesnar is a far bigger star. He makes more money, his name drives much more media interest, and his record on PPV is second to none.
Before I go further, I should note that I don't believe Businessweek considered any of the points I am about to mention. I think the person who made the list probably knows very little about MMA. Still, there are a few points to make on behalf of Fedor Emelianenko's marketability.
Everything you can say about Fedor's marketability has to be characterized in future terms, because it is yet to be realized. Since he's not in the UFC, it is a big uphill battle to be a big mixed martial arts star. We all saw the buyrate Brock Lesnar drew for K-1 Dynamite, and then the number he did in the UFC just a few months later. The combination of the UFC brand and a big star is a powerful thing. Who knows how big of a deal Fedor would be if he had the UFC machine behind him?
From a sports marketing perspective, Fedor and Brock both have significant strengths and limitations. For Brock, his name is so well-known and he's such an obvious draw that certain companies would love to have him connected to their brand. At the same time, his outspoken political views and his post-fight interview at UFC 100 might scare some blue chip companies away from working with him. These companies are already skeptical about working with fighters, let alone fighters perceived as volatile.
An icy Russian undefeated knockout artist has a lot of marketing appeal. A chubby guy in a sweater doesn't. Fedor could be very marketable if he was portrayed and built a certain way, but nobody has pulled it off yet. I think a good sports marketing firm could do a world of good for Fedor, especially in terms of monetizing him in Russia. I haven't seen his people pursue certain obvious routes though.
Another thing to consider is uncertainty. Both men's fame rests on a shaky premise. If Fedor loses, a lot of that aura he has will go away. Will he still be a big star if he loses? Of course. Will he lose more than Brock Lesnar? Yes. At the same time, we don't know what Lesnar we will see next time he fights. Will he be timid coming off the injury? I don't think so, but what if he isn't the same guy? People would figure it out in a hurry and all that marketability might disappear.
I believe Brock Lesnar should be ranked above Fedor Emelianenko if you're talking about powerful sports marketing brands in 2009. But it's not crazy to think Fedor could be extraordinarily marketable if he had the UFC branding machine behind him and a savvy sports management team. Similarly, I think Brock could become a complete marketing phenomenon in 2010 if he comes back victorious and actively pursues a few major deals.
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Fedor is much more powerful as far as overseas marketing and buys go, in America for sure it’s Brock.
The mat is my church, the ground is my heaven, Jiu-Jitsu is my religion. And once you hit the ground you're in my world. My world is like the ocean, I’m like a shark and most people don't even know how to swim - Draculino
I really doubt Fedor is more marketable overseas.
by Chris Barton on Jan 28, 2010 1:03 PM EST up reply actions
I think he did bigs number for that last Strikeforce event, and pretty good world wide, not to say that would be better than what Brock would do except in Russia.
I'm sure he did!
I’m not trying to imply Fedor isn’t a powerful international brand, sorry if it came off that way. What I mean to contend is that Brock is a MORE powerful brand, Russia and it’s former constituent parts not withstanding.
by Chris Barton on Jan 28, 2010 1:19 PM EST up reply actions
Fedor is bigger in Asia too, and he’s bigger in a lot of Western Europe (excluding possibly England).
The mat is my church, the ground is my heaven, Jiu-Jitsu is my religion. And once you hit the ground you're in my world. My world is like the ocean, I’m like a shark and most people don't even know how to swim - Draculino
by Patrick Tenney on Jan 28, 2010 1:28 PM EST up reply actions
Fedor is not bigger in either of those places.
by Chris Barton on Jan 28, 2010 1:29 PM EST up reply actions
Than Brock? I think you’re mistaken; Fedor in Japan > Brock in Japan. In places like Holland, Belgium, and a lot of the European countries that have followed K-1 for years (and thus Asian MMA by proxy) Fedor is bigger than Brock.
The mat is my church, the ground is my heaven, Jiu-Jitsu is my religion. And once you hit the ground you're in my world. My world is like the ocean, I’m like a shark and most people don't even know how to swim - Draculino
by Patrick Tenney on Jan 28, 2010 1:33 PM EST up reply actions
Fedor was never the big draw in PRIDE, but when Brock pro-wrestled in Japan he WAS the big draw.
I don’t think you’re logic on why people in Holland etc. follow Asian MMA as opposed to UFC/WWE actually pans out. Can you support that, or is it just an opinion?
by Chris Barton on Jan 28, 2010 1:35 PM EST up reply actions
I lived in Belgium and Holland for a few years when Fedor was in Pride and people were all over his nuts 24/7, I haven’t been back since Brock has been in the UFC but people never gave 2 shits about pro wrestling so I doubt they care that much about his “stardom”.
The mat is my church, the ground is my heaven, Jiu-Jitsu is my religion. And once you hit the ground you're in my world. My world is like the ocean, I’m like a shark and most people don't even know how to swim - Draculino
by Patrick Tenney on Jan 28, 2010 1:46 PM EST up reply actions
Interesting
I don’t know much about what people from that region watch. I’d be curious to see ratings etc. if they keep track of international events like that. I know when I used to watch Pro-Wrestling the used to do big European tours and they always seemed super popular there.
I assume with the UFC holding shows in Europe now the focus would be more to them than DREAM/WVR. In addition, Fedor hasn’t really had a presence in those shows for a while now.
by Chris Barton on Jan 28, 2010 1:50 PM EST up reply actions
I don’t know how much the UFC has invaded Europe (other than England) but I know that people in Belgium and Holland are f’n K-1 addicts and they were in love with Pride when that was around. I haven’t been back since the UFC really exploded so it might of changed, people there tend to stick with other Europeans/Non-Americans as far as their allegiance/fandom goes though.
The mat is my church, the ground is my heaven, Jiu-Jitsu is my religion. And once you hit the ground you're in my world. My world is like the ocean, I’m like a shark and most people don't even know how to swim - Draculino
by Patrick Tenney on Jan 28, 2010 1:57 PM EST up reply actions
I’m just thinking with how good they did in Germany and the marketing their trying to do in France so they can go there soon, things may have become more ZUFFA focused.
Be interesting to find out.
by Chris Barton on Jan 28, 2010 2:13 PM EST up reply actions
I’m French, I can hardly tell what’s going on in each 44 countries of Europe, but Pride was so strong back then, it’s really really hard to believe Brock got more name recognition than fedor.
I’m looking for polls on French websites, I found this: 2009 Best fighter Lol. No BJ no Brock, I’ll keep looking.
"You hit too hard, too hard, too hard..."
I think Brock will not last another year as champion, pretty soon the debate will become irrelevant :p
Pain is Temporary
Pride is Forever
I think Fedor will be eaten by a bunny rabbit with rabies
and pretty soon the debate will become irrelevant :p
see what a pointless game that is?
I think Brock will not last another year as champion, pretty soon the debate will become irrelevant :p
Amen
"Hey, sewer rat may taste like pumpkin pie, but I'd never know 'cause I wouldn't eat the filthy motherf**ker" - Jules Winnfield
by WeaponElDeem on Jan 28, 2010 3:18 PM EST up reply actions
This whole article completely disregards Fedor’s co-ownership of M1 and all the shit they have caused (for better or worse) in the MMA world. Sure Brock has a bigger name, but Fedor has huge behind-the-scenes influence in the MMA world that Lesnar can’t touch.
Sure glad Lesnar got his shit straightened out.
Any idea
Why Buisnessweek ranked them the way that they did?
I tend to agree with Rome, as usual. If the UFC machine got behind Fedor he would become a monumental figure and a cash cow. With seeing how much Mir can now seemingly pull on PPV a fight with him and Fedor would be UFC 100/101 caliber imo.
i personally think even with the UFC machine pushing him Fedor would never reach Brock Lesnar status as far as PPV buys. Brock vs anybody sells
"Frank Mir had a horseshoe up his ass. I told him a year ago. I pulled it out of him and I beat him over the head with it." Brock Lesnar
And why can we say that about Brock? The UFC hype machine. Without the UFC Brock couldn’t and didn’t sell in MMA.
by Chris Barton on Jan 28, 2010 1:33 PM EST up reply actions
I don't think that one freakshow fight on a terrible K-1 dynamite show with a late replacement
is quite enough to judge Lesnar’s non-UFC drawing power.
Well we have that fight as evidence. You have your fantasy that he might have started to sell well. Who knows, maybe your fantasy would equate with reality. For me, I’ll just take that actual evidence we have and accept it.
by Chris Barton on Jan 28, 2010 1:39 PM EST up reply actions
Fact is Brock is a bold out spoken american who has the look people flock too and the built in fan base like no other. UFC helped him but he also helped them. Brock could easily put up 500K outside the UFC something Fedor has never done.
"Frank Mir had a horseshoe up his ass. I told him a year ago. I pulled it out of him and I beat him over the head with it." Brock Lesnar
Could he?
Because the reality is, he didn’t.
by Chris Barton on Jan 28, 2010 1:45 PM EST up reply actions
The reality is....
Brock has the LOOK of a Champion
Fedor has the look of an Ice Cream Truck Driver.
Which makes both of them marketable, just in different ways.
by Chris Barton on Jan 28, 2010 2:14 PM EST up reply actions
Well I suppose...
…you could have Fedor do Ice Cream commercials geared toward Children. He seems like a likeable guy…
Brock, on the other hand, belongs on those old-school SLIM-JIM COMMERCIALS.
“NEED A LITTLE EXCITEMENT??? SNAP INTO A SLIM-JIM!! RAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARRRRGGH!!”
Compare Brock to Chuck Liddell.
Even as a longtime dominant champ with YEARS of UFC hype, Chuck was not the same star Lesnar is. An even closer parallel is Matt Hughes… Midwestern wrestler with a big ego and a mouth to match holding a belt. Lesnar’s stardom is a level above what Hughes ever was.
Being a dominant figure and having UFC marketing can accomplish a lot, but Lesnar is a special case. He’s a character like Kimbo Slice with perceived skills and dominance of a prime Matt Hughes… that can not be reliably replicated artificially by any promoter. Fedor may be an unstoppable wrecking machine and beat the #2-5 ranked heavyweights one after another all in one night, but his skills alone can not make him as powerful of a brand as Brock.
"Someone is WRONG on the internet. What do you want me to do? LEAVE? Then they'll keep being wrong!"
-Randall Munroe
Brock did what?
100k? in his MMA debut?
Fedor is the best HW of all time, and has done what on PPV?
At this point Brock wouldnt sell like the UFC but could probably earn more than Fedor on PPV.
I'm like PacMan fightin you silly kids... throw ya Hatton the ring, and get knocked outlike Ricky did.
lol.
I don’t think Fedor would reach Lesnar’s stardom just with the UFC behind him; he’d be another Anderson Silva. A definite big name and good draw, but not speaking english well doesn’t help; the biggest thing though is that Brock was famous before he came to MMA.
Though I do think that if Fedor had the UFC behind him he would be much bigger. Not to mention if he came over to the UFC and beat their top HW’s… well, beating Brock might steal a bit of his spotlight.
"A champion is someone who gets up when he can't." - Jack Dempsey
Fedor
had the opportunity to have the UFC machine behind him but he turned it down.
Half the criteria is missing in your analysis
Half of the ranking was based on in-ring/cage performance over the last two years.
by Jonathan Snowden on Jan 28, 2010 1:11 PM EST reply actions
So, because Lesnar lost to Mir, Fedor is a better brand? So based on this criteria, Fitch was a better brand than GSP in 2007 and 2008? (Since GSP lost to Serra and Fitch went 8-0)
The list is a combination of athletic achievement and "the presence and personality to help sell billions of dollars’ worth of goods and services every year. "
by Jonathan Snowden on Jan 28, 2010 1:21 PM EST up reply actions
I didn’t make the list. But if you just read the above, you’d think it was solely based on marketability.
In reality, neither fighter has proven to be exceptionally marketable, as only GSP has broken the barrier of mainstream endorsements. And even his are on a very small scale. So, when comparing Lesnar and Fedor to the other athletes on this list, marketability was likely a strike against both men!
by Jonathan Snowden on Jan 28, 2010 1:35 PM EST up reply actions
performance, marketability and earning potential
Using these criteria (and thanks for pointing it out) I have no idea who they made this list. Performance wise it’s probably a wash between those two. Marketability…. I guess Lesnar has a slight edge. Earning Potential, I’d give to Brock simply because the UFC grants him more potential.
Weird.
by Chris Barton on Jan 28, 2010 1:41 PM EST up reply actions
slight edge in marketability?
Who, aside from MMA diehards, even KNOW who Fedor is? Even before the fight he had on TV against the Grimm, Fedor was a virtual unknown…Brock was well-known and popular.
From Business Week:
Working with Horrow Sports Ventures and CSE, an integrated sports and marketing firm in Atlanta, Bloomberg BusinessWeek.com developed the methodology for the 2010 edition of the Power 100 ranking of the most powerful athletes in professional sports. The Power 100 rankings are based on a blended mix of athletes’ “on-field” and “off-field” performance to determine which athletes are having the greatest overall impact in the world of sports. On-field scoring is determined by statistically ranking each athlete’s sports performance within his or her peer group over a two-year period. For each sport, key performance metrics include such measures as points scored, money earned, laps lead, and batting average, to name a few. This ranking is then adjusted by the overall popularity of the sport itself, based on an index of fan avidity and TV viewership. The off-field scoring is developed from hundreds of surveys on athletes and how the general public perceives them. The data was compiled by E-Poll Market Research, a leading provider of custom research services and products for entertainment and media companies, using their E-Score® Celebrity database. Athlete rankings are based on such attributes as awareness, appeal, trustworthiness, and influence. In addition, the amount of endorsement dollars each athlete earns rounds out the off-field ranking.
A few key points about creiteria:
-money earned. (Tiger is #1)
-how the general public perceives them. (Tiger is #1 ?)
-Trustworthiness. (Tiger is #1 ???)
ohh shit.
..even the monitor got photoshopped well. haha. :)
by Anton Tabuena on Jan 28, 2010 1:17 PM EST up reply actions
ohh shit is right
Mazzagatti’s in the ring.
by joerogansvnecktee on Jan 28, 2010 2:09 PM EST up reply actions
Yeah, Maz reffing a Brock fight is the most unlikely part of that pic.
by ufc4 on Jan 28, 2010 3:18 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Fedor is staring at brocks
cocksword.
Keep it clean, there are children afoot.
by Ulf Murphy on Jan 28, 2010 1:26 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
not to mention un-original joke makers.
Mark it 8 Dude.
by Earl Montclair on Jan 28, 2010 1:47 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Just keepin it honest for us in the 10% of that, bro.
Mark it 8 Dude.
by Earl Montclair on Jan 28, 2010 1:49 PM EST up reply actions
I’m smarter than the average hater.
Mark it 8 Dude.
by Earl Montclair on Jan 28, 2010 1:54 PM EST up reply actions
It was there for the taking.
Next time I will be sure to clear my unoriginal joke with you beforehand. Thank you for your reply and for taking the time to put me in my place.
don’t be a sad panda.
Mark it 8 Dude.
by Earl Montclair on Jan 28, 2010 2:14 PM EST up reply actions
Wow, I just got chills looking at this pic, oh how I wish Fedor would man up and sign with the UFC, instead of fucking around fighting Rogers or Werdum.
As for the article, its not even close, Brock is 10x the star Fedor is, its not even close, even Fedor in the UFC as the HW champ with the UFC behind him he wouldnt be as big as Brock.
Fedor looks as big as Carwin...
…unfortunately his gut looks bigger than his arms just a tad.
He looks like some guy who just got off the couch to grab a beer from the fridge. :)
Uh it's based on the world not just the US.
Asia + Russia + other markets + strike force = Fedor.
Brock = the United States where MMA isn’t THAT big.
Fedor is a global brand.
UFC fights are shown in more places worldwide then Strikeforce and/or Fedor fights.
by MMAWrestling on Jan 28, 2010 1:32 PM EST up reply actions
dont really believe that is true. SF/M1 announces their tv deals outside US to give them some sort of glitter, while the UFC have been doing it for years now.
I am. I think. I will. - Ayn Rand
I'm confused.
You don’t believe what MMAWrestling posted is true…. but then you seem to agree with him.
by Chris Barton on Jan 28, 2010 1:42 PM EST up reply actions
i blame
“Emmeliaaanenkooo Fedddooooor” – Pride Entrance by Japanese scream girl w/ goth-russian music.
I am. I think. I will. - Ayn Rand
she is actually American
"For some reason Dana White doesn't like me, and I don't care enough to find out why. So he can go pound sand up his ass as far as I'm concerned."
Don Frye
by keyboardwarrior on Jan 28, 2010 2:44 PM EST up reply actions
href=“http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lenne_Hardt” >
"For some reason Dana White doesn't like me, and I don't care enough to find out why. So he can go pound sand up his ass as far as I'm concerned."
Don Frye
by keyboardwarrior on Jan 28, 2010 2:47 PM EST up reply actions
Uh..You keep saying that...
…if it makes you sleep well at night, I suppose.
Only reason that Strikeforce is shown more overseas is that the UFC has had difficulty trying to expand to other countries(until now) aside from the UK.
I guarantee you that once the people there see some REAL GOOD FIGHTING, they’ll stop watching that garbage(StrikeFarce).
That is kind of unfair.
I might not be the staunchest of Strikeforce supporters but for every shitty fight they put on you get 1-3 very entertaining fights. I thoroughly enjoyed the Diaz vs Shamrock card. But I am a UFC fanboi so take that with a grain of salt.
The problem is, Fedor’s global brand is worth less than the UFC’s brand.
If it wasn’t, Fedor and his crew wouldn’t keep needing to find american companies to hook up with to get him to fight. If Fedor’s global brand was so strong. M1 would have just set up the Sylvia, Arlovski, and Barnett fights on their own, they wouldn’t have needed to get Affliction (and now SF) to pay them millions of dollars to “consult” they could have just set up the fights on their own.
How many orgs has went Bankrupt with Brock in them again?
"Frank Mir had a horseshoe up his ass. I told him a year ago. I pulled it out of him and I beat him over the head with it." Brock Lesnar
by pitbull187 on Jan 28, 2010 1:24 PM EST reply actions 2 recs
THIS.
K-1 Dynamite is still around, isn’t it? Brock was there for one fight against a can…..
K-1 USA isn’t exactly thriving though.
by VirtualBalboa on Jan 28, 2010 2:48 PM EST up reply actions
The only thing Fedor has going for him is that apparently he has alot of shills in important places considering some of the press he’s received considering he’s never been a draw.
It’s kind of amazing that a bunch of deluded fanboys can prop him up to be even in the discussion of who is the more powerfull brand with a guy who dominates ppv buyrates like Lesnar.
Gotta give it to the guys at M1, even though most of the people don’t know or care about him they have somehow conned a bunch of hardcores into drinking the kool-aid and putting him on lists like these which he has no business being in.
by Raker on Jan 28, 2010 1:40 PM EST reply actions 3 recs
Brock has sold more PPVs.
Fedor has put 3-6 times as many asses in seats at a time. Hooray!
"Someone is WRONG on the internet. What do you want me to do? LEAVE? Then they'll keep being wrong!"
-Randall Munroe
Are we counting WWE in this?
'He built his whole reputation as a waffle house chef. They’ve been serving him up ham and eggs with a side of canned tomatoes' - Don Frye on Fedor Emelianenko
by Well Read Idiot on Jan 29, 2010 5:40 AM EST up reply actions
The one thing I didn't see brought up
is the fact that Fedor doesn’t really care to be a star, it’s never been important to him and correct me if I’m wrong but isn’t hasn’t he said something to the effect of him being a bit uncomfortable in front of the camera?
by ChillMike on Jan 28, 2010 1:40 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
same with brock though. this is the guy who lives in the woods with no internet connection or tv and dana has to drag to interviews.
but when he does get dragged to those things he puts on a show.
by Phildo on Jan 28, 2010 1:52 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Yup
and Fedor sits there like he’s on tranquilizers
Mark it 8 Dude.
by Earl Montclair on Jan 28, 2010 1:53 PM EST up reply actions
Brock wins this one...
Brock wants to be a star. Anytime he’s in front of the camera he puts on a show. He’s definitely a character. Fedor actually looks like he’s getting a root canal. UFC and MMA in general need to focus on great fights and improving the visibility of their sport. That means figuring out ways to educate the public. Give people a reason to care.
Eventually UFC will have to move away from depending on PPV to grow their organization. Part of the reason why boxing isn’t as big is most fights are either on PPV or HBO. No more fights on broadcast or basic cable for that matter. They are too focused on putting together fights that sell, not fights that push their sport forward. Sadly, MMA is going in this direction without the foundation that boxing has.
F U Man
This is not meaningless!!!
Ya it is.
Mark it 8 Dude.
by Earl Montclair on Jan 28, 2010 2:30 PM EST up reply actions
Fedor is vastly bigger outside the States, than Brock is
I think ya’ll are highly…highly, mistaken if you think Lesnar’s a bigger draw outside the US than Fedor is. The other issue is Fedor actually has part ownership of M-1, and as such, is much…much more powerful than Lesnar in the business world. Inside the US, of course Lesnar will have higher draws. That’s to be expected. Russia + Asia are all Fedor though, which, well, you could get every person in the US interested in MMA and it still wouldn’t match the pool they’ve to draw from in Europe/Asia.
If M1 is so pwerful and such a great business, why can’t they afford to put a fedor fight together on their own?
Are there more people in Russia and Asia, yes. But that doesn’t make Fedor a more powerful businessperson.
by Phildo on Jan 28, 2010 2:52 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
You're missing the point...
It’s not about which organization is bigger, it’s which figure is more powerful in the business world. Given Fedor’s stake in M-1, and Brock’s lack thereof…it’s rather simple to understand why Fedor’s placed slightly higher.
It gives Fedor many many more opportunities for business, than the US. Why is that so difficult to understand?
Fedor’s stake in m1 doesn’t matter because m1 doesn’t matter, that’s the point.
The only thing m1 has done so far is prevent fedor from fighting in the UFC. Brock, on the other hand, has let the UFC make a shitload of money.
And you know this how?
Monetarily speaking, you know jack and shit about where this places Fedor. What Brock does for the UFC doesn’t make BROCK a more powerful business man, you get it? If the question were UFC versus other venues, or Dana White as a marketing genius versus the answer would overwhelmingly be in the UFC’s favor. This is not, however, to say that the UFC is capable of reaching as many viewers as Fedor. Because, that is certainly not the case. Think about the viewers who watched Fedor v Rogers internationally, then think about the fact it was like 3am their time. Primetime in Asia/Europe, Fedor puts up numbers the UFC dreams about.
In this case however, Fedor, himself, has more business power than Brock. Laugh at it all you want, but I fail to see why it’s such a contentious issue really. They’re both great at what they do, except Fedor’s a bit more into the business end of MMA, than Brock. Is that truth really going to keep you up at night?
if brock WANTED to be on that side, he would do FAR FAR better than Fedor even could. He has what people refer to as a personality. Us hokies from the US feel strongly about people with personalities, one way or the other. one sweater and one face isnt going to do it for us, sorry.
by Austin Martin on Jan 28, 2010 6:52 PM EST up reply actions
Really?
Please illustrate your point with numbers, and statistics please… I’d love to see if you have a legitimate point or if you’re just spouting off speculation and trying to pass it off as fact.
I'm like PacMan fightin you silly kids... throw ya Hatton the ring, and get knocked outlike Ricky did.
lol.
Brock has more popularity in the U.S
But if both men had a fight (not with each other) that was broadcasted world wide through one channel, Fedor would have more viewers by the millions.
Performance could also mean what happens in the ring as well as outside of it. In that sense, Fedor most assuredly had a more impressive 2009 in that sense, even if he didn’t generate the same amount of money.
SBJ has taken a lot of flak from MMA fans for some recent articles about MMA’s growth and ability to generate ad revenue. I don’t think they really care if they step on any toes.
Everyone missed the most
important part, Pujols at 4!
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