Co-Promotion in the UFC? A Noble Idea, Nothing More

by Leland Roling on Jan 22, 2010 6:03 PM EST in News Comment 93 comments

Last Wednesday, Sports Illustrated writer Josh Gross unleashed an article outlining what the focus of mixed martial arts should be this year. In the article, Gross makes these claims:

Serious issues remain unresolved, and new ones will surely arise. Concerns of oversaturation on American television will be met head on in 2010. The impact of collective bargaining for fighters could begin to play out in a real way. A dire need for competent regulation and judging is underscored each time fighters step in the cage. Expansion of MMA internationally will certainly be a story in the coming year (especially with the UFC planning a major push into Asian markets and governments like China poised to embrace the sport). And on the home front, a promotional war between the UFC and Strikeforce is likely to intensify.

Our own Kid Nate chimed in with his own thoughts of the article's points, and former BE commenter and Fightlinker writer subo ranted back. It's safe to say that it's a touchy subject among fans, and it seems that many are split on the issue.

The central issue revolves around the UFC not willing to co-promote with other organizations and it's robbing the fans of some great fights that should have happened. While I'm not a resounding voice in the MMA blogosphere, I couldn't help but throw out my own opinion among the thousands already out there. I'm generally in favor of co-promotion for the fights, but the UFC would be crazy to do so in 2010 or while being in the position they're currently in.

Oversaturation still seems like a farce to me. Many readers here have tried to liken it to Major League Baseball in that they turn on their television in the afternoon and stumble through their 500+ digital television packages hitting multiple games. I think that's a little unfair because oversaturation is usually based on the more die-hard fans becoming overly tired of the sport due to watching it so much, not casual fans roaming their channel guides and saying "Jesus Christ! There is way too much baseball!".

From my own experience, most MMA fans won't be affected by the HDNet, Showtime, Versus, CBS, Fox Sports,and NBC deals that were worked out with various promotions. Most will probably tune in for the CBS cards that Strikeforce promotes due to their quality on the main card, but I doubt droves of casual fans will get "tired" of MMA because of all the events. Most fans will only see the few CBS cards and the UFC cards.

Of course, others are saying that co-promotion will ultimately solve oversaturation because the fans don't buy the "bad" UFC cards. If we had co-promoted cards, more huge fights would happen -- thus bolstering PPV buyrates. Sounds great, right?

The only problem is that the UFC is at the top of the food chain when it comes to revenue and the business side of the sport. Why would they want to share the revenues when they'll probably gain the services of the fighter down the road anyways?

Sure, it hasn't worked out for everyone. Fedor Emelianenko has remained out of the UFC due to his management demanding a co-promoted event, and some writers believe that's a sure sign that the UFC needs to lax their policy on co-promoting fights. I'm not exactly sure why though. I want to see Brock Lesnar vs. Fedor Emelianenko like the next guy, but do I think that one fight will ultimately change the way the UFC does business. Be realistic.

Other promotions have time against them in this scenario. The UFC continues to make money despite the slowdown in their revenue margins. Strikeforce, on the other hand, will always have the visible problem of trying to find quality match-ups for their roster of fighters, a roster that seems increasingly more interested in moving to the UFC after the exposure they receive from network audiences.

The UFC also pays more than any other promotion in the sport, and promotions trying to keep up with those numbers will find themselves out of business. This is much of the reason why some of the big fights we wanted to see years ago didn't pan out till later, but it can eventually hurt the UFC's enemies.

2010 won't be the year to focus on matching top fights in my mind. It'll be the year to prove the Strikeforce can actually maintain revenues and move forward. CBS/Showtime has money, but they aren't going to keep a MMA promotion afloat that isn't making good profits. If they can't do so, the UFC will be another step closer to pure domination, and then we will get to see the best vs. best -- because the UFC will own almost all of them. It's seems increasingly more believable that the UFC will grab up everyone before the UFC actually fails enough to scatter most of the talent among many promotions.

The UFC's marketing and resources at their disposal to hype the fighters they currently have is astounding as well. It is worlds ahead of Strikeforce at this point because of the amount of money they have available, and it shows in their campaigns on Spike and the online content. Sure, hardcore fans want to see these perceived great fighters who reside outside of the UFC come into it and challenge for titles, but the UFC could sit around and bring in sub-par talent to those fighters and still win out by marketing them to the casual fanbase.

Why? Because they can still market them as the next great thing in mixed martial arts, and your buddy down the hallway will still have never have heard of Shinya Aoki or Fedor Emelianenko, nor would he care.

I want fights that we can't have just as badly as the next hardcore fan on the block, but it's an illogical idea at this point in the UFC's history. A true fan who would be willing to risk some revenue to snag big fights is what you ultimately need, and Dana White isn't that guy right now.

This is a business, and Dana White isn't the president of another promotion behind the UFC in revenues right now. It makes sense for all of the other promotions to co-promote in order to continue being relevant, but the UFC doesn't need to do so.

I've heard this same idea from Josh Gross for years, and while I think it sounds like a great idea -- it gives off the feeling that it's an idea that is more based on pride and power to the people. Give the people what they want, Josh Gross says. Sounds grand and spectacular, but it almost never works out that way.

I'm not opposed to what Gross says. I'm just very pessimistic when it comes to the things that need to happen in order for co-promotion to actually occur in the UFC. More big fights would be made... if there weren't any egos and this wasn't a business. Unfortunately for many fans, business is what drives all sports to where they are today. Co-promotion in the UFC is nothing more than a noble idea that won't come to fruition any time soon. It's more likely that the UFC will gobble up the competition and outlast the masses of promotions out there.

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Comments

I think this is a well written article that actually had some thought put into it unlike the 2 responses mentioned in your article which seemed more like fanboy rants.

by Sliup on Jan 22, 2010 5:12 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

Nice work Leland.

by Phildo on Jan 22, 2010 5:13 PM EST reply actions 2 recs

The goofy Dana pic makes this even more impressive.

http://www.twitter.com/TB_Money

by Beer Monster on Jan 22, 2010 5:14 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

The UFC has all the power. Why give it away?

by snakecharmer1340 on Jan 22, 2010 5:18 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

As the resident grammar nazi, I think you’ve made another mistake

I want to see Brock Lesnar vs. Fedor Emelianenko like the next guy, but do I think that one fight will ultimately change the way the UFC does business. Be realistic.

that should be don’t, I think

by TLow on Jan 22, 2010 5:31 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

You’re correcting someone when you’re not sure yourself?

by scrambledeggs on Jan 22, 2010 5:33 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

It’s called tact. You’ll learn someday…

by TLow on Jan 22, 2010 5:41 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

LOL. You’re not at all arrogant in your comments. You might want to look tact up in the dictionary and stop worrying about correcting other people’s grammar.

by scrambledeggs on Jan 22, 2010 6:33 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I caught the same thing.

This st should be about corrections, which are inevitable in an article of this size:

Paragraph 6: “It’ll be the year to prove the Strikeforce can actually maintain revenues and move forward.,” should read “..prove that Strikeforce..”

Awesome article, Leland.

There is no such thing as innocence, only degrees of guilt.

by misterjonez on Jan 22, 2010 5:37 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

The, “I” should go before, “don’t.”

That’s if he forgot to add a question mark at the end of the sentence instead of a period, then it would make sense.

'Ello G'vnor!

by IHateMMA on Jan 22, 2010 5:47 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Ah, you could be right. It could be a rhetorical question, a la Frank Mir…

by TLow on Jan 22, 2010 5:54 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Don’t change anything Team UFC, you’re doing great!!!

Except maybe the gladiator man. That was old 4 years ago.

Keep firing Assholes!

Mind numbing, tedious and ultimately self defeating.

by Ubernoober on Jan 22, 2010 5:37 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

I am a bit tired of the gladiator intro, myself. But I can’t think of what they’d replace it with.

by Jason H. on Jan 23, 2010 1:58 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

The Gladiator is the UFC’s version of Ronald McDonald or the Energizer bunny. It is so strongly tied in to the UFC brand there is no chance whatsoever that they will just abandon it.

by Steve4192 on Jan 23, 2010 7:43 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I really wish they could get full broadcast rights to Teenage Wasteland, that video they show in the venues right before the broadcast starts is freaking awesome.

Guillotine.

by iiowyn on Jan 23, 2010 9:06 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I always wondered why subo wasn't around any more.

Good for him.

There is no such thing as innocence, only degrees of guilt.

by misterjonez on Jan 22, 2010 5:39 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

The best part is that he lost a bet to me and is now stuck with a Kansas City Chiefs avatar pick for the rest of internet eternity.

Keep firing Assholes!

Mind numbing, tedious and ultimately self defeating.

by Ubernoober on Jan 22, 2010 5:41 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

The day UFC starts Co-Promoting...

could likely be the day MMA starts to die down in popularity, especially in the US.

I'm like PacMan fightin you silly kids... throw ya Hatton the ring, and get knocked outlike Ricky did.
lol.

by Loot on Jan 22, 2010 5:51 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

The only way UFC will co promote with another org is by buying it up and killing it.

"If your going to come on then come on!" - Harold Howard

by Bandaka on Jan 22, 2010 5:51 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

As things are there is no reason for the UFC to co-promote. To do so would be to introduce their fans, the vast majority of which who think nothing of calling the sport “ultimate fighting”, to their competitors. Zuffa owes 85% of the North American mma audience, so it makes no sense for them to turn the spotlight on another promotion and tell everyone “hey everyone, these fights are just as worthy of your attention as ours”. But that doesn’t mean that 2 or 3 years from now if Strikeforce or someone else can capture 30% of the increasing pie, that the UFC would’t feel compelled to co-promote. And my hope is that will be the case., that every two years the UFC champ would be forced to meet the StrikeForce/Dream Champ in a co-promoted match, until eventually the two merge into one monolithic organization – after they’ve come to an agreement with the Fighters’ Union.

by nottheface on Jan 22, 2010 5:53 PM EST reply actions 2 recs

I'll rec that

even though I have no desire for co-promotion under any circumstances. Nor a Fighter’s Union.

But it would be fantastic if another org could out-maneuver Zuffa for a significant piece of the pie and force some interesting counter-moves.

There is no such thing as innocence, only degrees of guilt.

by misterjonez on Jan 22, 2010 6:13 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Should the UFC co-promote? No.
Do I want them to? Yes.

by nastyem on Jan 22, 2010 6:05 PM EST reply actions 11 recs

That about sums it up for me.

Ranking MMA

by JRN on Jan 22, 2010 7:54 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

thats a rec

by Pain on Jan 22, 2010 9:12 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Sounds about right lol

Walking the line between intelligence and ignorance since 1985
@deowade

by Deo Wade on Jan 22, 2010 9:57 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

As I said way back during the Fedor negotiations:

The UFC has ZERO incentive to co-promote. Zero. Zip. Nada. None.

They are hugely successful and have nothing to gain but roster expansion under co-promotion. There would be losses in virtually every other area. It’s in no way worth fracturing a great business model.

I specializes in grammar fail.

by a tommy point on Jan 22, 2010 6:16 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

but they will when sf starts to compete

by Pain on Jan 22, 2010 9:13 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

When? More like IF, and a huge IF.

Even the casual sports fans I know are like “Herschel Walker? Isn’t he like 50? What the hell is he doing fighting next week????”

by Jason H. on Jan 23, 2010 1:59 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

True.. but

Moussasi, Hendo, Mo, Nick Diaz, and Fedor keep making noise itll go down. Just like Boxing.

by Pain on Jan 23, 2010 2:33 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Whoever thinks UFC should co promote is nuts.

WHy would the top org help out or give attention to SF or any other org?

Second, robbing fans of what fights?

There are only a handful of fighters outside the UFC anyone cares to see fight UFC guys, Fedor, Mousasi, Aoki, thats really it.

Fedor is a free agent after two fights, and could be UFC bound, UFC has what, 9 of the 10 best LHW in the world? SF has 1. Frankly, the UFC can make better and bigger fights in the LHW div without Mousasi. Shogun/Machida vs Rampage is huge, Shogun vs Spider is bigger.

LW Aoki is a fight with BJ that would be good, but how big? nobody in the US knows Aoki, and he cant fight for shit on his feet, so when BJ rocks him to sleep I mean, I dont know.

Sure there are 3 fights that co promo could offer the UFC, but the UFC doesnt need them, and nor should they help out any other orgs, would they do the same if reversed?

No.

UFC doesnt need co promo, you only co promote cause you have to. SF and DReam work together cause they have to, not cause Coker is so great and loves mma and the fans and all this, he needs there fighters cause his roster is weak, he needs to bring Aoki in to fight Melendez cause who else would anyone care about?

You think anyone wants to see Gurgel fight for the title? Even Shaolin most wouldnt know who that is, maybe Noons, but hes been away for a while, he needs Aoki cause he doesnt have anyone else that fans care about.

He needs Marius cause really, Jay or riggs is next in line to fight for a WW title, really?

He needs to co promote, UFC doesnt. UFC holds the best in the world, Zuffa has the best BW, FW, LW, WW, MW, LHW and number 2 HW in the world, not to mention the majority of top 10 fighters in every div. Every single div in the sport the UFC has either half or more of the top 10 fighters in most rankings.

UFC doesnt need to co promote.

and the too much mma, yeah maybe from other orgs, people may not care about Bellator when they have UFC or even SF, but the UFC can never have too many events.

by KRS827 on Jan 22, 2010 6:17 PM EST reply actions 1 recs

Second, robbing fans of what fights?

There are only a handful of fighters outside the UFC anyone cares to see fight UFC guys, Fedor, Mousasi, Aoki, thats really it.

Kinda answered your own question there, eh?

Ranking MMA

by JRN on Jan 22, 2010 7:55 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

When you have the #1 brand that is considered the pinnacle of the sport, why co-promote? Co-promotion will turn the UFC into the clusterf*#$ that boxing is today.
Oversaturation? As if 100’s of meaningless baseball and basketball games aren’t an example of oversaturation. Yet, millions of people still watch them. How; I have no idea. Mind-numbing boredom.
P.S. “F” Fedor and his M1 Global. Mousasi vs. Gary Goodridge. What a joke.

by tharv3 on Jan 22, 2010 6:17 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

co-promotion is really only for the hardcore fans

The matches that can come from co-promoting are really hardcore fans dream matches and that is why you really wont see the UFC co-promote.

What would make the UFC believe that the co-promoting a Fedor vs. Brock matchup would outsell Brock vs. Randy or Lesnar vs. Mir? Because to have that logic you would have to be able to sell the idea that there are a bunch of Fedor fans that didnt watch UFC 81, 87, 91 or 100 that will tune in to watch Fedor fight Brock. Are there that many Fedor fans that dont watch the UFC? I dont think so.

Same story with Penn vs. Aoki. Why would the UFC co-promote a Penn vs. Aoki match up when I’d bet it couldnt touch Penn vs. Florian, Penn vs. Sanchez, and I’d even question if it could outsell Penn vs. Sherk.

So that is the thing. By co-promoting these “dream matchups” the UFC would be really only appeasing the hardcore fan base who are dying to see these matchups.

I think if the UFC thought that they could really get a lot more eyes by co-promoting they would but the reality is the fans that are dying to see Lesnar vs. Fedor will still watch Lesnar vs. Couture, Mir, or Carwin and the fans that are dying to see Penn vs. Aoki will still watch Penn vs. Florian, Sanchez, and Edgar.

by bigdmmafan on Jan 22, 2010 6:18 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

by DamnSevern on Jan 22, 2010 6:23 PM EST reply actions 7 recs

I think I could watch this forever.

2010 Seahawks Goals: Master the forward pass, sack the QB, and knock Arizona off their perch.

by SSreporters on Jan 22, 2010 7:06 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I think

this is the combination of pure and awesomeness.

by proflex on Jan 22, 2010 9:02 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Incredible piece Leland. Thank you.

by Riney on Jan 22, 2010 6:28 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

As usual, Leland does a bang-up job.

by Lynchman on Jan 22, 2010 6:34 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

I don't understand why people keep talking about the UFC copromoting.

It’s a nonstarter. Seriously, as long as the UFC is in the position they are in, it’ll never happen. It’s like me wanting the Canucks to win a cup. Do I want it to happen? Yes. Will it happen? Nope. Until the MMA landscape changes for the worse for the UFC, all this copromotion talk is masturbation.

You have to be the man... you have to be very, like, alpha male with her. You know? Decide what you do and everything. So, show her who's the boss, you know? - GSP

by pud333 on Jan 22, 2010 6:41 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

Do the Canucks want to trade the Sedine sisters for Kessel in the “Underwhelmer of the Year” sweepstakes?

Keep firing Assholes!

Mind numbing, tedious and ultimately self defeating.

by Ubernoober on Jan 22, 2010 6:42 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I’m convinced there is nothing the Canucks can do to win a cup. They are chronically underachieving. Even if they did great during the regular season, they’d still bow out in the first or second round.

You have to be the man... you have to be very, like, alpha male with her. You know? Decide what you do and everything. So, show her who's the boss, you know? - GSP

by pud333 on Jan 22, 2010 6:50 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Send the Sedine sisters to Toronto where there is still hope.

If all the Canadian teams pool their resources in Toronto, the Cup will come back home in 2010!

Keep firing Assholes!

Mind numbing, tedious and ultimately self defeating.

by Ubernoober on Jan 22, 2010 6:51 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

haha. Vancouver has such an irrational hatred for Toronto, I’m sure Canuck fans would rather see the team blow up instead of giving up to Toronto.

You have to be the man... you have to be very, like, alpha male with her. You know? Decide what you do and everything. So, show her who's the boss, you know? - GSP

by pud333 on Jan 22, 2010 6:53 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

The Leafs won't be relevant for decades

Vigneault going past the 2nd round is his kryptonite. His coaching just goes to crap. We go from attacking play to “dump and chase” and it kills us all the time.

2010 Seahawks Goals: Master the forward pass, sack the QB, and knock Arizona off their perch.

by SSreporters on Jan 22, 2010 7:07 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I'm a Leafs fan...

but I hate them so much.

by PM23 on Jan 23, 2010 10:47 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

You're right

The Canucks will never win a cup.

Blackout612- "Wuts teh UFC?"
Ubernoober- "It like two guy who just stand and swing for fence and try to knock each other shit out it awesome"

by Blackout612 on Jan 22, 2010 9:45 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

UFC is co-promoting with Flash Entertainment.

So there. haha.

by snakecharmer1340 on Jan 22, 2010 6:47 PM EST reply actions 1 recs

I dont even think Co-promotion is a noble idea… you want to get 1 fight today and lose hundreds and thousands tomorrow. If Co-promotion was a reality today we wouldn’t even know who the hell guys like anderson silva or Machida are. The sport would be dead. Boxing has a 100 years of good will built up over generations that are now putting up with these shenanigans… MMA doesn’t have that good will to throw away.

Gross used to mention 12 fights years ago when selling this silly co-promotion idea now he is down to 2 and he’s so desperate that on one of them he has to reach because the opening line for Bj penn vs Aoki would be laughable.

So every year that he’s been preaching this nonsense his case file has shrunk… and now him and his new sidekick want Zuffa to compromise everything. We’re at a point as fans where we are only down to 1 fight that hasnt been delivered yet… And for that 1 fight (which can still be delivered) they want hundreds and eventually thousands thrown away.

You want co-promotion with whom exactly??? Strikeforce cant even get their own fighters to fight each other… fighters on their own roster refuse fights, pick and choose their opponents, and pad their records.
.
Now, Collective bargaining is a noble idea with good intentions but I just dont see any path of that happening with a global foot print developing and where Zuffa is actually paying fighters. With or without existing competition if you create a star you have to pay them like one… there’s just too many ways to monetize a name. .

by mmalogic on Jan 22, 2010 7:32 PM EST reply actions 5 recs

The nobility exists

in giving the loyal hardcore fans what they want. Unfortunately for us, we aren’t entitled to the events we wish we could see…

As for the collective bargaining, I don’t think it will happen over pay. Image rights will be the wedge issue.

"Someone is WRONG on the internet. What do you want me to do? LEAVE? Then they'll keep being wrong!"
-Randall Munroe

by pdl on Jan 22, 2010 7:43 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Noble? at what cost? how is it noble to compromise the integrity of the sport and turn it into the mess boxing is today? how is it noble knowing the Anderson Silva’s of tomorrow will never get his shot or the fights he deserves?

by mmalogic on Jan 22, 2010 8:06 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

It's not the integrity of the sport

it’s the integrity of the business. It makes perfect sense from a sporting perspective.

"Someone is WRONG on the internet. What do you want me to do? LEAVE? Then they'll keep being wrong!"
-Randall Munroe

by pdl on Jan 22, 2010 8:31 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

how has it been making sense for boxing?

by mmalogic on Jan 22, 2010 8:32 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

You are talking past me again.

I do not care for this game.

"Someone is WRONG on the internet. What do you want me to do? LEAVE? Then they'll keep being wrong!"
-Randall Munroe

by pdl on Jan 23, 2010 2:10 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Unless Strikeforce took over upwards of 40 % of the market you will never see Zuffa co-promote though it would be great for the fans. As for collective bargaining with the low pay (compared to other sports) and Zuffa constantly harrasing sponsors I don’t think we are far off. Sooner or later the middle tier fighters have got to stand up to Zuffa.

by KING FEDOR on Jan 22, 2010 8:38 PM EST via mobile up reply actions 0 recs

That will be the problem… middle tier is a dime a dozen. The top tier will never do it.

And a middle tier guy from brazil is like a lottery winner – he’ll give you his left nut to fight… which brings up the global impact and how organizing would be impossible.

I can see some kind of organizing attempt in the US in the mid tier guys – but really the mid tier UFC fighters do better than mid tier boxing guys. if you include the fight night bonuses its almost impossible to get people to stay on the line.

And I dont see any top tier playing this game.

It didnt happen in the wwe and boxing, I don’t see any path that it could happen here. You’’ll get the onseys twoseys here and there but for the most part unless Zuffa fucks up I dont see it.

There was a possibility this would have been imposed by the government but lobbyists and all those shenanigans are in place for that. If companies were as politically savvy decades ago as they are today, there would be no unions in any of the major sports.

by mmalogic on Jan 22, 2010 8:54 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs

I think the fact that Zuffa owns so much of the market organizing is a distinct possibility. In boxing there was/ is too many different orginizations. The fighters could organize against the UFC and the smaller companies would have to fall in line

by KING FEDOR on Jan 22, 2010 9:08 PM EST via mobile up reply actions 0 recs

why would they organize against the org that can actually consistently pay them top dollar as long as they perform and offer sponsors the spot not only on PPVS but also on fight nights and TUF finales?

CBS doesnt even show entrances, which is the only time people are wearing sponsored T’s until after the fight. SF just isnt as well designed yet, and theyre going to need to catch up to the beast fast

by amadeus on Jan 22, 2010 9:11 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

if fighters organize accross the board strikeforce and pretty much every other small org will be out of business in 24 hours.

by mmalogic on Jan 22, 2010 9:15 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Yeah, that and the fact the most fighters are concentrated in about a dozen fight camps.

But then we’re talking about the towel boy not getting paid and that shit just crosses the line.

I agree, I do think there will be at least one significant attempt because of centralized power structure and concentration of the camps but i see the line breaking at “go”. Overseas people have different mindsets (even those who have come to america)… they think not working for someone willing to pay you is some kind of lunacy.

At the end fighters have people around them that depend on the fighter getting paid so it’s gonna be an extremely difficult thing to do.

by mmalogic on Jan 22, 2010 9:22 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs

Honestly, why do you think UFC paid Wanderlei so much? CroCop? Why are they bringing in Takanori Gomi, coming off of a lackluster 2 years, to fight one of their top guys?

UFC brings in tons of fights that are really just to please the hardcore fans. Most people could give a shit about CroCop, but the guy was making as much money as headliners because UFC wanted to see him in the Octagon. There are plenty of instances where the UFC brass did something that wasn’t all that business savvy because they’re fans of the sport and want to please hardcores like us…..hell, look at how much money they offered Fedor! The guy has never sold over 100k PPVs in the US and they were going to make him one of the highest paid in the UFC.

The fact that they drew the line somewhere seems to be getting them strife, but business wise, the PRIDE stars weren’t smart moves. But UFC are fans and want to please the fans.

Are there a few stragglers here and there? Sure. But 99% of the fighters I want to see are in UFC…the other few, well, they’ll come around and play with the big boys or pad their records against scrubs into the sunset.

by Jason H. on Jan 23, 2010 2:06 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

It's only noble...

In that many hardcore fans want to see it happen, but really believe it’s a bad idea from a business standpoint. Anyone with a logical outlook can see it doesn’t make business sense, BUT… purists want to see it happen to see all of these best vs best fights.

Ultimately however, I think the UFC stands a better chance of dominating the landscape over co-promoting… ever.

Follow me on Twitter @lelandroling
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein

by Leland Roling on Jan 22, 2010 8:41 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

yeah short term we’d get that one fight, maybe 2. Long term it would kill the sport, not just the business but the sport would just erode away. If the fighters and managers take over it’s done.

This is the ADD market – boxings fickleness would just kill it overnight.

by mmalogic on Jan 22, 2010 8:59 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I will agree that some of the lackluster fights we saw this year made me feel like saturation but I agree with the article that it is far from having NFL Sunday Ticket. That being said, the question is quality over quantity as far as I am concerned. If the UFC is the only organization, I think that will harm quality. They are far and above the most well done show, but what needs to be focused on is an organic growth. Purists like us who sit on blogs all day rather than work, buy all the PPV’s, etc. Don’t go for the whole world yet, just the people who will obsess. This is really why the NFL is so strong. Fantasy Sports League, an entire Sunday spent drinking beer and ignoring the wife, and that leads the wife to watch too, because she has too. Now she is wearing a Jersey and swearing at Favre. MMA is so far from that. To prevent it from being a fad, they really need to make exciting events every time, and have some regularity.

Co-promotion … bah. That is just bad for the sport. It feels hokey. The UFC needs to go it alone and become the NFL. Otherwise, you are just Vadim and Coker. Two shady ass guys who are what you’d expect from a fight organization. Btw, Coker’s interview was very interesting today regarding Pride.

by b_radical on Jan 22, 2010 8:12 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

The concept of co-promotion

As It was suggested by Finklestien in the UFC/Fedor Talks. Made me think of an metaphoric analogy to something like this.

You go into a luxury car dealer. There is a special one of a kind, top of the line model. For whatever reason you want to buy it. They tell you that they will sell it to you, but it will be over market price of course, and in addition. The dealers Sales Manager and the Salesman that you buy it from get to drive it 50% of the time.

Now to you and me that sounds crazy. But to people from Russia believe it or not, this is a reasonable concept in a maverick economy that was once controlled entirely by government.

Of course this would not work in the UFC’s case for Fedor anymore than it would for one of you thinking about buying a new Luxury car.

by SimplePsych on Jan 22, 2010 8:17 PM EST reply actions 1 recs

you just got to suck it up and pay Fedors handlers… build his preist a church for god sakes. This whole co-promotion nonsense is how they siphon and make there money instead of taking 15%… they end up with over 50%.

Buy vadim a new dog. this next negotiation will be it… if it doesn’t happen it’s not going to happen.

Co-promotion will never happen… Zuffa will sooner just buy M-1 if it was even worth anything before doing that.

People are talking about co-promotion when it would just be cheaper to buy strikeforce or m-1 or whatever else than the long term consequences of dealing with co-promotion.

Strikeforce’s contracts arent worth shit. Shane Mcmahon wouldnt even wipe his ass with them. You’d think at a minimum exit strategy they would structure things in a way where they can get somebody who’d want to buy these things.

by mmalogic on Jan 22, 2010 8:30 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs

I think CBS/Showtime is going to find out in 2010 that the benefit isn’t extraordinary, and they might bail. I mean, how much revenue can we estimate Strikeforce is producing?

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"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein

by Leland Roling on Jan 22, 2010 8:42 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

i think its truly because you cannot finance high level fighters salaries with money from gate and a tv contract, it wont be profitable enough. A successful org that wants to pay top dollar is going to have to have some sort of PPV package to supplement their money, and right now the UFC has a strangehold on the money coming from MMA ppv.

by amadeus on Jan 22, 2010 8:46 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

My thoughts exactly. I mean, what’s stopping CBS from airing some ridiculous variety show in Strikeforce’s place and being just as profitable with a lower production value? Or a sitcom? I suppose Saturday’s are bad for both though, and sports is an unique thing to show on Saturday nights.

Follow me on Twitter @lelandroling
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein

by Leland Roling on Jan 22, 2010 8:48 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Strikeforce needs a real commitment from CBS after this show otherwise their last hope will be PPV… and then that will determine what happens.

This strikeforce show is very important… pivotal because even if they have to go the ppv route this will be their biggest outlet to push something.

But even with strikeforce out of the picture these guys find some fucking way to get their claws in someone or something else… so I think Zuffa will still have to do some kind of magic to get this done. Not a stadium but a church and if the deal has to be done in a way for the handlers to be happy so be it. That’s on Fedor. He has 2 more fights left with them (m1)- if he wants to give them control that’s his business.

by mmalogic on Jan 22, 2010 9:14 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

i think people need to stop worrying about fedor fighting in the ufc, realize its not going to happen, and go on with our lives. cuz nothing we say pro or con in this debate reaches any ears that care about our opinions. the bottom line is money, is business, and if youre not talking about the bottom line, neither side wants to hear it.

by amadeus on Jan 22, 2010 9:21 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

and all that is made out of how many people watched Fedor/Rogers

how many of those same people will now buy a Fedor PPV? I’d guess not that many. Probably more than Affliction but not much more and with Affliction they were able to at least stack their cards somewhat. With the Showtime contracts and everything they cant take the majority of there fighters and stick them on PPV or Showtime will be pissed.

I do agree that Strikeforce needs a real commitment from CBS because it can just be a show to show deal. It will be very interesting to see how much the Hendo acquisition plays a part in ratings because that is supposed to be a major signing for them and if Hendo doesnt bring ratings it will be a huge dissapointment.

by bigdmmafan on Jan 22, 2010 9:26 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Hendo probably won’t bring the ratings, his KO of Bisping was 6 months ago and when he talks he’s about as exciting as drying paint.

The UFC has problems promoting him with their machine, what the hell is Strikeforce going to do with him?

Keep firing Assholes!

Mind numbing, tedious and ultimately self defeating.

by Ubernoober on Jan 22, 2010 9:37 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Its kind of hard selling a ppv 3 or 4 months after a network show…. nobody gives a shit anymore. Affliction had the hardcore fanbase. The strikeforce show wont be as stacked and when you give something away it’s hard to then charge for it whereas Affliction came in on ppv. affliction numbers are optimistic at this point.

by mmalogic on Jan 22, 2010 9:38 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I think you’re gonna need an addendum to the gegard mo piece regarding strikeforce’s problems… Either Jake or CBS doesn’t want the hendo vs shields fight.

I couldn’t wonder why they’d even consider that because it’s tailor made for a snoozefest.

Now the question is if this fight doesn’t happen who does Hendo fight?

by mmalogic on Jan 22, 2010 9:30 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

have you seen more than just the report that the fight isn’t signed yet?

by Reaser16 on Jan 22, 2010 9:35 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

no I just heard one of those parties doesn’t want or is resisting the fight. Im assuming it’s CBS and not shields.

If it’s shields then he’s decided to come to the UFC. If it’s CBS then they’ve decided they dont want turtle fucking on primetime.

by mmalogic on Jan 22, 2010 9:42 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

cool, thanks for the response. I had just been reading the bout agreements haven’t been signed and some people were saying that even though people keep saying the fight is official it is not.

even Coker had a quote saying it’s the fight he “wants to make” a few days ago, but that’s different from saying it’s the fight that’s going to happen or is made.

by Reaser16 on Jan 22, 2010 9:57 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

oh, Then more than likely it’s CBS.

by mmalogic on Jan 22, 2010 10:05 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Glad a grownup has finally chimed in on this.

Keep firing Assholes!

Mind numbing, tedious and ultimately self defeating.

by Ubernoober on Jan 22, 2010 9:25 PM EST reply actions 2 recs

I want ice cream!!!!!!!!!!!!!1

Blackout612- "Wuts teh UFC?"
Ubernoober- "It like two guy who just stand and swing for fence and try to knock each other shit out it awesome"

by Blackout612 on Jan 22, 2010 9:47 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I’ll start worrying about over-saturation when I hear someone besides the most hardcore of the hardcore freaking out about it. Listening to Sherdog radio a few days ago, Jordan Breen and that Brandon guy that supposedly calls every Sherdog radio show 45 minutes in advance so he can be the first caller were gnashing their teeth about over-saturation. It was like listening to fat asses worrying that McDonald’s is opening too many stores.

Co-promotion is fools gold.

by Jahbulon on Jan 22, 2010 9:27 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

UFC 107 will counter program Strikeforce Miami

Keep firing Assholes!

Mind numbing, tedious and ultimately self defeating.

by Ubernoober on Jan 22, 2010 9:37 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

dvr is sweet

by amadeus on Jan 22, 2010 9:44 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

What M1 was asking for was as much true Co-promotion as...

the Soviet Union was true Communism.

Just saying.

by Razreshat on Jan 22, 2010 11:20 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

UFC sold 10% to flash entertainment to fast track expansion into foreign territories. Co-Promotion with M-1 would have accomplished the same goal wouldn’t it? It’s not like the UFC wouldn’t of gained anything from it and they wouldn’t of had to sell any of the company to make it happen.

“Russia’s Channel 1 (16 million viewers), the main event was also televised in some capacity in China, Latin America, United Kingdom, New Zealand, Ukraine, Finland, Africa, Turkey, Israel, Indonesia, Bulgaria, Romania and Malta, according to the promotion.”

http://www.mmafighting.com/2009/11/30/m-1-global-strikeforce-over-25-million-watched-fedor-vs-roger/

I don’t see how it would have hurt anymore than it would have helped. I understand not wanting to give anyone a piece of the limelight when you have built yourself up to be the number one promotion on the planet … but c’mon it’s not like there aren’t any positives from a business perspective.

by Johnnynumber5 on Jan 22, 2010 11:38 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

big difference

they’re making zillions from the sale. they’re partnering with deep pocket oil money.

m1 would not be buying into the ufc. m1 and zuffa can’t co-exist in a business due to zuffa and gambling and m1 with rumored mob ties.

http://mixedmartialartsblogger.wordpress.com/

by KrmtDfrog on Jan 22, 2010 11:50 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

No, it wouldn’t have accomplished the same goal. Too many reasons to type, and everyone should already know most of them if they’ve followed the Fedor/UFC story the last few years…

by Reaser16 on Jan 23, 2010 12:21 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

The “M-1 Breakthrough” show should have taught you all you needed to know about M-1’s competence in expanding into foreign territories.

by Dlanor A. Knox on Jan 23, 2010 12:22 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Well at least from my perspective

they are 2 different situations. I dont think the UFC sold 10% to Flash just to fast track expansion into foreign territories. I think there are a lot of different reasons.

But 2 I think the main reason why it was easier to do a buy-in with Flash instead of a co-promotion with M-1 is Flash is not an mma company. Flash not owns 10% of the UFC or Zuffa, dont know which, but so they want the UFC to do well and they will try and do whatever to help Zuffa make the UFC bigger.

M-1 is an mma company and I personally dont feel like they are in any partnerships to help their partners. I feel like M-1 has did business deals with Affliction and Strikeforce because they had more money and deeper roots in US mma. I feel that M-1 is looking for the best deal to get M-1 a shit load of cash and exposure. M-1 is looking to help M-1.

The difference is Flash now owns part of the UFC and so they are going to do whatever they can to help the UFC make money so they in turn make money. With Co-Promotion M-1 doesnt care how Strikeforce does unless it’s a co-promotion venture. Example if they only made 100 dollars profit from Strikeforce:Evolution, M-1 wouldnt care because they were not involved in that show and didnt receive any profits.

by bigdmmafan on Jan 23, 2010 12:27 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

should, could and will

are different things. SHOULD the ufc co-promote? from who’s point of view? Mine as a fan? Theirs as a business? COULD they? Sure. They don’t want to. WILL they? See previous answer.

http://mixedmartialartsblogger.wordpress.com/

by KrmtDfrog on Jan 22, 2010 11:48 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

That’s up to you. Phrase the question in the context of however you want it.

Should the UFC co-promote? From a business point, no. From a fan viewpoint, we all would love it. But does it make sense for the UFC. Ultimately, no, it doesn’t.

Follow me on Twitter @lelandroling
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein

by Leland Roling on Jan 23, 2010 11:51 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs