Summary of the Brock Lesnar Conference Call
by Michael Rome on Jan 20, 2010 4:22 PM EST
in MMA News
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Below is the summary of the Brock Lesnar conference call that followed his appearance on SportsCenter.
--Brock Lesnar is ready to start training immediately, and will fight the winner of Shane Carwin and Frank Mir. If something happens to Mir or Carwin in that fight, the winner of Nogueira-Velasquez will get a shot.
--Brock was suffering for almost a year with stomach pains and didn’t know what it was. During training camp for Shane Carwin everything snowballed and fell apart. He was missing full weeks of training camps.
--Brock had diverticulosis, not diverticulitis, which is the more minor case. One of his diverticuli ruptured, creating a hole in his stomach lining. His body couldn’t eat enough food to get nutrients, so he was operating at 60-80%.
--Brock may fight the same weekend as the next Expo.
--Brock's lowest moment was getting care from Canada. "We have the best doctors in the world" in the United States, tells us he's opposed to widespread health reform. Doctors in Canada couldn't do anything for him, it was like he was in a third world country. Brock loves Canada and owns property in Canada, but he'd definitely want to be in the U.S. to get care. Restates that he loves Canadians, but he's not a fan of their healthcare.
--His wife saved his life by getting him out of the hospital. She drove 100 miles an hour to get out of Canada and into the hospital in North Dakota. He was in the hospital in Bismark for 11 days. The doctors drained pockets in his stomach and removed 14 CC's of fluid from his stomach.
--He left the hospital and went to Mayo for a second opinion, and they told him the same thing: he needed surgery. They wanted to do another procedure in a month, so he went home, changed his diet and started working out.
--What got him here was an all-protein diet, not enough fiber, so he had to change his diet entirely. He started some natural healing medicine, and did a lot of praying. He went and got a colonoscopy at Mayo on January 5th, and the doctors found nothing. The doctors told him he wouldn't need surgery.
--He will be back in the gym Thursday morning, and he's going to be ready for everybody and anybody.
--Brock: "I'm a carnivore. I'm a member of the NRA. Whatever I kill I eat. For years I was surviving on meat and potatos, and when the greens came by I kept passing them." Now he's paying more attention to keeping a balanced diet.
--On the bad night in Canada: He went to sleep, and woke up in shock and cold sweat. It was a huge problem, he didn't know where he was, and knew he needed medical help. He was far away from the hospital, 2.5-3 hours from what he thought would be a good medical facility.
--Brock refuses to disclose where he was treated. Says he is mentioning this because he's opposed to President Obama's healthcare plan and he wants to disclose to the citizens of the United States how bad universal healthcare is. Brock is speaking on the behalf of Americans, and on behalf of doctors (He was speaking to Neil Davidson of the Canadian press at this point). Machinery at the Canadian hospital wasn't working, so he went to where he could have it done.
--At his lightest, Brock was at 248. Today he is 273 pounds. Brock joked the last time he weighed 248 pounds was second grade.
--On a third fight with Frank Mir: He would be thrilled to fight Frank Mir. Didn't beat him as bad as he could, would like to get his hands on "that stalker." Says Frank Mir is his stalker now, and has made that his mission in life, so he would be happy to take care of that again.
--Brock is feeling great, was back in the gym last week helping sparring partners. Brock isn't dwelling on the past, thinks he will be better than ever. Says all the other heavyweights are shitting their pants.
--Brock is unhappy about his camp coming out and saying things. He wants to get rid of those people, mad about them speaking on his behalf. Brock is a private guy. He didn't want to talk to anyone before because there was nothing to say.
--Brock is not a believer in socialism.
HT: cagewriter.com
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So nice to have Brock Lesnar’s opinion on the healthcare issue. Yes, I am being sarcastic.
Yes, I live in a country with universal healthcare – which is falling apart because the politicians are in love with the American system.
by Monday Morning Martial Artist on Jan 20, 2010 2:52 PM EST reply actions
I live in a country with universal healthcare and there is no chance that it will ever change, since it works amazingly well.
I can’t even see the point of having the American healthcare, other than if I was a doctor that wanted insane amounts of money.
Believe me, where I live it did work well – until someone got the smart idea of forcing everything to ‘turn a profit’. Now everything related to healthcare is understaffed, overworked and underfunded.
by Monday Morning Martial Artist on Jan 20, 2010 4:04 PM EST up reply actions
I can’t even see the point of having the American healthcare
You don’t own an insurance or pharmaceutical company nor are you having your pockets stuffed by lobbyists… makes a lot of sense from their point of view.
American healthcare system’s overhead is 25%, in other capitalist democracies their universal healthcare system’s overhead comes in at 3-10%… billions and billions of waste and inefficiency.
The U.S. does have the best healthcare in the world for specialty procedures but one of the worst for primary care, meaning for basic care for the majority of its citizens. We have a worse infant death mortality rate than most underdeveloped countries. Crazy.
Well, in defense of Brock’s opinion, he is rich. Rich people in the US get the best care in the world. The bad side effect of not running your medical system for profit is that you don’t always have immediate access to every top of the line machine out there, which, as a millionaire athlete in the US, I would guess Brock usually does.
All that being said, I’m glad he got treatment, is ok now, and I am even more glad I’m a Canadian with great healthcare.
by McEwen on Jan 20, 2010 2:56 PM EST up reply actions 12 recs
I don't think money has anything to do with Brock's opinion
There is a meme that runs strong in a large segment of the population, that anything that the federal government does must be evil. I believe it grew out the Reconstruction, the New Deal, and the Civil Rights movement.
Yeah, notice the central factor in two of your examples...
Sigh.
Don't believe a word I say, I don't train BJJ.
I blog at TangleBones - you should follow me on Twitter here.
by jemaleddin on Jan 20, 2010 3:17 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
Not to get in a whole health care debate, but saying only the rich in America get good medical treatment is far from the truth. No one in my family has gotten anything but the best of medical care for as long as I remember, and we are far from rich. Yes, there are imperfections with the American healthcare system, but lets not pretend that its all evil. There is a reason why the rest of the world comes to America for medical treatment.
by neyvit on Jan 20, 2010 3:14 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
I would encourage you to look at this graph
A graph of spending on health care per country (on the left) and life expectancy on the right and notice where America is on there. I’m just saying.
Don't believe a word I say, I don't train BJJ.
I blog at TangleBones - you should follow me on Twitter here.
Thank you.
I love how people will focus on anecdotal evidence rather than facts.
You have to be the man... you have to be very, like, alpha male with her. You know? Decide what you do and everything. So, show her who's the boss, you know? - GSP
Awww!
We should totally cuddle now. :-)
Don't believe a word I say, I don't train BJJ.
I blog at TangleBones - you should follow me on Twitter here.
Oh I would date jemaleddin in a second if I was a woman or gay. He looks like a cuddler, that jemaleddin. I like that. I like to be held, I like to be pampered
You laugh,
but he’s not wrong.
Don't believe a word I say, I don't train BJJ.
I blog at TangleBones - you should follow me on Twitter here.
Do you think people are going to stop being obese and lazy when we get universal healthcare? The average life expectancy will not change very much in either direction.
Well, universal health care isn't a panacea
….but obesity isn’t killing as many people as lack of preventative care is, and that’s something it would provide.
Don't believe a word I say, I don't train BJJ.
I blog at TangleBones - you should follow me on Twitter here.
You'd have to examine a broad range of studies
Since there isn’t a single comprehensive study that’s been done, but when you read that early breast cancer screening can reduce death rates by up to 60%, it becomes pretty obvious how big an impact that is.
I can dig up all the studies you need, but the most important ones are those that show that obesity ISN’T as linked to mortality as previously thought.
Don't believe a word I say, I don't train BJJ.
I blog at TangleBones - you should follow me on Twitter here.
1. Citizens of the United States of America spend more on health care because they can.
2. There are all kinds of reasons life expectancy is shorter in the United States that have nothing to do with health care. For which the often cited chart does not normalize.
3. If the United States could divert much of its military spending to health care knowing that its neighbors would bail it out should the need arise, universal health care might be an option.
by jrobb20 on Jan 20, 2010 5:43 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
The chart is based on life expectancy at birth
and as such, is normalized for the kind of effects (higher murder rate, higher traffic deaths) that you’re talking about.
Don't believe a word I say, I don't train BJJ.
I blog at TangleBones - you should follow me on Twitter here.
I'm actually
surprised by the info on the chart, I didn’t think that Canadian and American life expectancies would be that different. With that being said, no health care system is perfect, both the Canadian and American systems have pro’s and con’s, both produce excellent research on varying topics. I’ve known people from both countries that have gone to the other for “better” care. so I think the argument is truly mute.
actually, an increasing number of wealthy Americans are opting to go abroad for medical care. So many people come from around the world and are educated in American universities and medical schools and then return to their countries of origin to actually practice medicine that if you are rich, you can get the same quality healthcare in places like UAE and Singapore for a fraction of the cost.
"If I wanted to spend a half hour between two hairy legs I'd go to your mother's house." -Don Frye
Agreed!
I am even more glad I’m a Canadian
You have to be the man... you have to be very, like, alpha male with her. You know? Decide what you do and everything. So, show her who's the boss, you know? - GSP
by pud333 on Jan 20, 2010 3:30 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
I wonder how Brock feels about Molson.
Some people think I am a dumb, ugly human being, but really I am a beautiful ape, with exceptional verbal skills.
The Mayo Clinic is a non-profit Hospital. They are pretty much the best of the best for state of the art equipment and rank in the top 3 for best hospital in the US.
And the Canadian hospital Brock was in..
..was in the rural municipality of Gimli Manitoba. Population 5500.
Obviously completely representative of the Canadian health care system, just as the Mayo is exactly like every hospital in the US system..
Brock’s an idiot.
PS: I’ve lived in the US, Canada and Australia, had health care issues in all three, and only in the US did I not get immediate high quality treatment. In fact, I had to work ill for two months before I could afford to be treated in the US, which left me far sicker. The quality of care I got in the US was no better, and possibly worse, than I had elsewhere. If anecdotal evidence matters any.
http://www.vancouversun.com/mma
by Ozzz on Jan 20, 2010 4:12 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Awesome.
Holy crap, I’ve never even heard of Gimli. Sounds like a Lord of the Rings character. Seriously, how the heck can Brock compare that to the Mayo clinic? I don’t want to fighter bash, but that’s just fucking stupid.
You have to be the man... you have to be very, like, alpha male with her. You know? Decide what you do and everything. So, show her who's the boss, you know? - GSP
Clearly I should turn in my geek card, cause I should have known that.
You have to be the man... you have to be very, like, alpha male with her. You know? Decide what you do and everything. So, show her who's the boss, you know? - GSP
I agree, I live in Rochester, MN where the Mayo Clinic is and there are a lot of people from out of state that I have heard horror stories about their local hospital which led to them going to Mayo.
Mayo’s system needs to be used more as an example of how the current healthcare system can work.
One hospital way out in the middle of nowhere
supported by a huge endowment that doesn’t even take Medicare is an example of the system working?
Yeah, their methods don’t scale.
Don't believe a word I say, I don't train BJJ.
I blog at TangleBones - you should follow me on Twitter here.
YES YES YES.
I'm like PacMan fightin you silly kids... throw ya Hatton the ring, and get knocked outlike Ricky did.
lol.
The fallacy implication is that in a universal system you have access to the “best care in the world” because it’s free. You have access you just may die waiting in line.
Rubbish.
Lines only exist for non-urgent procedures, like hip replacements, lapband surgery, etc.
Unless you’re out in rural Manitoba. Then you have lines because who the fuck wants to be a doctor in rural Manitoba?
Ditto rural West Virginia.
http://www.vancouversun.com/mma
I am not a millionaire athlete, nor am I remotely considered rich. I have had two surgeries in my life. My ACL and meniscus were repaired by the same guy that works on the New Jersey Devils. Recently, I shattered my collarbone and needed surgery. The doctor who did my surgery also happens to work on the Olympic Cycling team. To say that rich people in the US get the best care in the world, while true, is also somewhat misleading. Poor people get excellent care, also.
are you poor?
or high middle class? or middle class? do you have health care coverage?
Pain is Temporary
Pride is Forever
Dude.
Kids in the US die from tooth infections because mom and dad can’t afford to get to a dentist. Laws in Texas allow kids on life support to be taken off the machine if their parents can’t cover the bill.
The poor get reamed like Mrs Lesnar.
http://www.vancouversun.com/mma
Everyone probably has had different experiences with universal healthcare some good and obviously Brock had a bad one. Same thing with American healthcare. I will say I used to live in MI on the border with Canada and the Canadians were always coming over the border to get treated by American doctors. I don’t know any Americans who went over there to get treated.
It is interesting that in the current American system nearly all the new drugs are developed here instead of countries with socialist medicine. Apparently the opportunity for profit is a good incentive.
I know a family with property in Canada and the US
who do most of their healthcare through Canada. One of their kids goes to a top of the line psychologist in the US, but gets all their medication from him in Canada. If they didn’t, then their kid wouldn’t be able to afford her meds and would be dealing with severe untreated OCD (would wash her hands until they bled. Literally) and depression. This is just one family of course, there are examples on both sides.
And the reason for dominance of the American pharmaceutical market is that we stole German patents after WWII and made it a focus of our production. The government also pumps it up since aside from computers, it’s the only thing the US produces anymore. It has nothing to do with American ingenuity or ideals such as capitalism. And although we used to have about 85% of the global market cornered, it’s down to almost 70% in a matter of 15ish years. Apparently those Germans that all of “our” ideas came from are still really good at making new medicine. So… yeah, the american system is interesting. But it’s far from the best at development, and is rapidly losing its dominance as an industry as it rests on [stolen] laurels.
"Someone is WRONG on the internet. What do you want me to do? LEAVE? Then they'll keep being wrong!"
-Randall Munroe
Brock forgot the important part of pimping our American Healthcare system… It’s the most amazing health care in the world if you are filthy rich like he is.
"A champion is someone who gets up when he can't." - Jack Dempsey
by JeremyShane on Jan 20, 2010 10:31 PM EST up reply actions
or I could have read more of the responses and seen ten people already say the same thing more or less… (didn’t think the responses to the one comment would be this long)
"A champion is someone who gets up when he can't." - Jack Dempsey
by JeremyShane on Jan 20, 2010 10:32 PM EST up reply actions
any chance of getting audio on this conference call?
"Frank Mir had a horseshoe up his ass. I told him a year ago. I pulled it out of him and I beat him over the head with it." Brock Lesnar
He started some natural healing medicine, and did a lot of praying.
I lol’d.
Anyway, he’s about as blue collar as you get, he only needs to lose 90% of his teeth, carry a shotgun everywhere and say “We don’t like your kind around here.” to Big Nog/Velasquez.
praying works
when you have money and shit load of doctors :p
Pain is Temporary
Pride is Forever
by Orcus on Jan 20, 2010 2:56 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
More prayers are answered at the Mayo clinic
then at any other US hospital.
by Trysdor on Jan 20, 2010 2:56 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
would you say there are more healthy wealthy individuals or more healthy poor individuals?
Pain is Temporary
Pride is Forever
Simple statistics will tell us that there are far more healthy poor individuals
simply because there significantly more poor people to be healthy or not.
Backing up my implication
simply looking at the extremes, millionaires vs poverty stricken, there are approximately 4 times the number of poverty striken people in the US, (40 million vs 10 million.) Even assuming that every single millionaire is healthy, which is of course untrue, only 25% of those in poverty must be healthy in order to match the number of millionaires. There are definitely more poor healthy people then there are wealthy healthy people.
That's true everywhere, though. Health isn't exclusively tied to access to health care
Clean water, quality food, even birth control, all are more easily accessed by the wealthy and play a huge role in overall health.
that’s true, but IMHO health care sure plays a role as well. If you get sick and is denied coverage from your provider (or if you don’t have a provider and is denied access), you’ll surely get worst and/or die, the rich does not have to worry about that. Creating a public health care system would not fix all the problems, but it would sure minimize it IMO.
Pain is Temporary
Pride is Forever
The funny thing is
I totally agree with you and am in favor of health care for the poor. I was merely playing a semantics game with you because it was fun. My original post was pointing out that so-called “prayers” get answered a hell of a lot more at top quality hospitals like the Mayo.
Regardless of the hospital,
…there’s a positive correlation between prayer and negative outcomes for patients with heart trouble.
I’m not sure if a study has been done on shaved bears with stomach pains.
Don't believe a word I say, I don't train BJJ.
I blog at TangleBones - you should follow me on Twitter here.
In one of Dawkin’s book he mentions the study, I’d imagine it would have no effect at all, but it actually made cases worse according to him.
Pain is Temporary
Pride is Forever
It's an inherently flawed study
because people in the worst shape are the most desperate, and far more likely to pray then someone not in as bad a shape.
similar =/= same.
The people who are getting closer to dying are the ones who start praying. Those who are further from death naturally survive, and don’t become as desperate. You can’t freeze illness as a moment in time. It’s a process.
it will be very hard finding thousands of people with the exact same problem and exact same body type among other issues that could make the study more accurate. Similar is as good as it gets.
I’d argue that most theists pray no matter how bad the situation may be (my whole family are theists, my dad is a former Pastor, 90% of my country is theist, I know how theists acts from experience), and from what I remember reading the study was done with people in similar circumstances (close to death + prayers, close to death – prayers, further from death + prayers, further from death – prayers). If the study was done differently, I’d agree with you that it’s disingenuous, but it wasn’t.
Pain is Temporary
Pride is Forever
The people weren't dead
they still had time to pray as they slipped further away. It’s not as though they could ask them at the hour of their death. People who are very close to death will usually pray out of sheer desperation. It’s the whole grief process, bargaining and all that.
The study was made by observing each patient’s stay in the hospital, observing those that prayed and those that didn’t (without telling them either about the study, so to not compromise the findings). They didn’t wait until they were dying to count the ones that were praying, the study took over 8 months of observations if I’m not mistaking (I can’t remember the exact number of months the study covered).
Pain is Temporary
Pride is Forever
That's even worse
Lots and lots of people pray without the ritualistic trappings. They can do it quietly in their head, without anyone knowing. Again, flawed study.
most people pray with the ritualistic trappings, telling them or asking them if they were praying would make the study flawed. you can’t have it both ways, if the study had asked them if they were praying, I’m willing to bet you’d say it’s a flawed study (correct me if I am wrong), if the study did not ask (as is the case), again you’ll say it is flawed.
Pain is Temporary
Pride is Forever
No, that's not the study I was talking about.
Don't believe a word I say, I don't train BJJ.
I blog at TangleBones - you should follow me on Twitter here.
This one.
Don't believe a word I say, I don't train BJJ.
I blog at TangleBones - you should follow me on Twitter here.
You haven't read the study at all
So you shouldn’t just spout randomly about it. Your argument is completely inaccurate.
Don't believe a word I say, I don't train BJJ.
I blog at TangleBones - you should follow me on Twitter here.
this is true, but prayer usually is made by a third party. It can help if an individual is praying for himself but only to a psychological degree. against a well developed cancer I don’t think it would do any good.
Pain is Temporary
Pride is Forever
Depends on your idea of prayer. Asking for intervention is different then believing in intervention. Prayer and the notion of “faith” have huge similarities to positive visualization that have shown to reverse cancers.
“I believe God can save me” is similar to, “I believe my body can heal itself” but is different from, “Please God save me.”
I believe my body can heal itself
^ = faith
Please God save me
^ = prayer
Prayer and the notion of "faith" have huge similarities to positive visualization that have shown to reverse cancers
there is no study that can support that claim
Pain is Temporary
Pride is Forever
Johns Hopkins University researchers learn that monthly religious attendance more than halved the risk of death due to heart disease, emphysema, cirrhosis of the liver, suicide, and some cancers . . . . A study finds that coronary care unit patients who were prayed for by strangers fared better than patients who did not receive prayer.
http://www.religionandhealth.com/godfaithhealth.html
There’s hundreds of thousands of cases of cancer “miraculously” going into remission… the power lies in the person “believing” whether it be in a God or positive energy or whatever… .
got anything from a non religious source?
give me something peer reviewed. I mean, I hope you can see how this is biased…
Pain is Temporary
Pride is Forever
Well, you can put the label of bias on any research trying to make a connection. The guy’s an epidemiologist with a Phd in preventative medicine… how is a Johns Hopkins Study a religious source? Are you just focusing on the title of his book?
Here’s another link with some examples… from scientists, not priests…
http://books.google.com/books?id=YDsDAAAAMBAJ&pg=PA14&lpg=PA14&dq=Dr.+David+B.+Larson+religious+4,000&source=bl&ots=zOTdvuiFoM&sig=QyQKpa5km_Bj1_BgiUFRA4Ue9rY&hl=en&ei=ZRYS8PuEYLStgPA0azGBw&sa=X&oi=bookresult&ct=result&resnum=6&ved=0CBkQ6AEwBQ#v=onepage&q=&f=false
Well, you can put the label of bias on any research trying to make a connection
no you can’t, if you have a study showing up on a religious site regarding how great it is to pray, it’s fair to say it has a bias.
Here’s another link with some examples… from scientists, not priests…
ok, one; that’s not a study, it’s a story on those people listed talking about their ‘studies’. One claiming he made a study to show how studying the bible once a week will decrease your blood pressure… any respectable scientist would never make such claim. If there are any connections, perhaps a real study would state (if true) that reading a book once a week may drop your blood pressure, but it’s not the powers of the bible that would.
Two; even if they are scientists, they can be wrong. Just because some scientist said something doesn’t make it true (even Einstein was wrong in some of his ideas). There are ‘scientists’ that believe the world is 6k years old… hope you get the point. The only way to make a study reliable is to make it peer reviewed.
Pain is Temporary
Pride is Forever
no you can’t, if you have a study showing up on a religious site regarding how great it is to pray, it’s fair to say it has a bias.
It wasn’t on a religious site, it was on a site for a book written by a professor of epidemiology, hope you can see the difference.
ok, one; that’s not a study, it’s a story on those people listed talking about their ‘studies’
Can you point out where I said it was a study, I said here’s a link with some examples.
perhaps a real study would state (if true) that reading a book once a week may drop your blood pressure, but it’s not the powers of the bible that would.
I’m not trying to claim that the Bible would make that happen, my whole point has been the power of belief within the individual… not the belief of divinity or even in the supernatural but the belief in a possibility of a certain outcome.
even if they are scientists, they can be wrong. Just because some scientist said something doesn’t make it true… The only way to make a study reliable is to make it peer reviewed.
You know how many “peer reviewed” studies denounce global warming? Your last statement completely nullifies your presumption that a peer reviewed study is the end all be all. Scientists are people, you think they’re some objective drones without agendas or motivations outside the realms of science? Do you think there’s one benevolent, objective organization that funds scientific research? You try to speak with authority with huge weaknesses in your logical foundation.
let me try to take it from the top…
It wasn’t on a religious site
http://www.religionandhealth.com/godfaithhealth.html
ok then…
Can you point out where I said it was a study, I said here’s a link with some examples
fair enough
I’m not trying to claim that the Bible would make that happen, my whole point has been the power of belief within the individual
I didn’t say you were, that’s what your ‘study’ claimed… if one point is unreliable, there is no reason to think everything else isn’t.
You know how many "peer reviewed" studies denounce global warming?
show me one!
Your last statement completely nullifies your presumption that a peer reviewed study is the end all be all. Scientists are people, you think they’re some objective drones without agendas or motivations outside the realms of science
peer reviewed studies are the end of it all. science is the only reliable system to fact-check reality. peer review is a system to filter the ‘good’ from the ‘bad’ in the scientific community, fact checking and passing along the reliable science from the unreliable. can a scientist have an agenda? sure, that statement is 100% sound. Can the community as a whole have an agenda? from America to Korea, from India to the Netherlands, from Russia to Japan, can scientists from all the countries come together to make a conspiracy theory? Sure, it’s plausible…… but I find that very unlikely.
You try to speak with authority with huge weaknesses in your logical foundation.
I am far from an authoritarian on anything, much less science. Common sense though makes me not want to buy your argument, that’s all. Present me with undisputable facts and I should change my stance. I am not afraid of being wrong. You seem to be taking this a bit personal though, we are after all in a very thin line in respect to the rules in the community (ie no religion talks), so if you’d like we should quite while we’re ahead… proceed with caution :p
Pain is Temporary
Pride is Forever
by Orcus on Jan 21, 2010 3:06 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
show me one!
http://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&q=cache:-DXysB83b6QJ:amadorcitizens.camp7.org/DocumentHandler.ashx%3FDocId%3D2947+peer+reviewed+study+denounces+global+warming&hl=en&gl=us&pid=bl&srcid=ADGEESiMIs_YuX8Tsuyilkw-tKxWSX7FfnZpBYSNxFxMatKPco05BHAQ7BRmWNTizB9L5j25EVX1qa9DCcUUclnnL-Bp8SB9QNFXTAE8AntFRoOAus5S7-8Wn-Q2StXmjVvKv1tha0CG&sig=AHIEtbTwHAkpjvE3W86yeJePvNFqLLajsQ
we are after all in a very thin line in respect to the rules in the community (ie no religion talks), so if you’d like we should quite while we’re ahead… proceed with caution :p
Ugh… I’ll refer you to my whole quote concerning our exchange…
I’m not trying to claim that the Bible would make that happen, my whole point has been the power of belief within the individual… not the belief of divinity or even in the supernatural but the belief in a possibility of a certain outcome.
that article is opinioned. The study had a result and a few scientists were giving their opinions on the finding and denying global warming. it’s not the study denying it, it’s those crazy deniers :p
Ugh… I’ll refer you to my whole quote concerning our exchange…
what I’m saying about religion is that our discussion is shifting that way.
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Secondly, the article I linked to was concerning a Duke study, it wasn’t some rogue scientist in the confines of a church. Maybe you’re not familiar with how research gets approved in a university, but I can assure you they go out of their way to make sure the university’s reputation isn’t thrown under the bus when approving the study.
frankly, the University’s reputation went under with the whole ‘praying works’ argument.
Pain is Temporary
Pride is Forever
Because you summed it up in your mind simplistically as a “‘praying works’ argument”. The actual study went like this:
The recent Duke Study, which examined 4,000 North Carolinians between the ages of 65 and older, found that the more religious the person, particularly a person who attended religious services and prayed weekly or studied the Bible at least once a week, the lower his blood pressure."
You dishonestly summed that up as:
he made a study to show how studying the bible once a week will decrease your blood pressure…
I understand some people’s need and reliance on what they deem to be objective science, but at least be intellectually honest about the information I’m posting.
so I’m honest? You just need some reading comprehension skills :p You made a claim regarding a study… check…. on that study, I found the quote I gave you…. check…. how am I being dishonest?
If I have a friend that told me that drinking coke works for stomach aches, and then I see him also eating dirt and telling me that it’s good for his vision, I’m going to call BS for his first claim… see the connection?
Pain is Temporary
Pride is Forever
Dude, you’re claiming
he made a study to show how studying the bible once a week will decrease your blood pressure…
is a direct quote? Its not, you’re slanting it to say it was totally designed to prove the benefit. The study was setup and the conclusions from that study, “suggest” that prayer helps with the caveat by scientists stating that its a “relaxation strategy” that gives it most of its beneficial results. C’mon man, yes, you’re being dishonest.
If I have a friend that told me that drinking coke works for stomach aches, and then I see him also eating dirt and telling me that it’s good for his vision, I’m going to call BS for his first claim… see the connection?
Yeah, exact same as a study of 4,000 random people… very limp analogy.
this is from that article:
…particularly a person who attended religious services and prayed weekly or studied the bible at least one a week, the lower HIS blood pressure. those people, according to the study, were 40 percent less likely to have high diastolic pressure or diastolic hypertension, which is associated with heart attacks and strokes, than those who didn’t attend religious services, prayed weekly or studied the bible at least once a week.
see, to me ‘or’ means one or the other… perhaps to you there is a different meaning? Still think I am dishonest?
On a side note, notice the HIS I highlighted in that quote, was the study done with only men or are they not politically correct?
Yeah, exact same as a study of 4,000 random people… very limp analogy.
ok, try this one. There is a small town who’s citizens all claimed to have seem a UFO up in the sky, it’s over 50k people and a ‘study’ was made confirming they were not lying. I don’t buy their BS either :p
Pain is Temporary
Pride is Forever
Go ahead and skip over the whole point that you said you quoted it when you paraphrased what you wanted. Now that’s rational.
Your analogy would be true if you said, out of 100k people who looked into the night sky, 50k saw a ufo. When studied the people who who saw the ufo were more likely to have drunk mushroom tea on that night. It goes back to that whole logical reasoning thing. Your analogies are pretty atrocious.
I’m not skipping anything. the story you linked mentions; “reading the bible at least once a week will drop your blood pressure”. I am not being dishonest, if you can’t back your own examples, I can’t help you…
When studied the people who who saw the ufo were more likely to have drunk mushroom tea on that night.
where to make assumptions on people who claims to have seem ‘something’, how intellectually dishonest from you sir!
Pain is Temporary
Pride is Forever
I’ll take your approach. Show me a peer reviewed study that discounts the positive effects of prayer or faithful belief in a positive outcome on a health related situation.
Until I see one worthy of my consideration, I’m forced to call BS on your assumption that it doesn’t work.
I see why you take this approach, its easy and insulating.
Whatever you say Diego.
Go do some cartwheels.
"Someone is WRONG on the internet. What do you want me to do? LEAVE? Then they'll keep being wrong!"
-Randall Munroe
so what part of that makes him “about as blue collar as you can get”? the natural medicine or the prayer?
by b2tharad on Jan 20, 2010 3:16 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
I love you Brock Lesnar
Don’t ever leave me again…
by ufc4 on Jan 20, 2010 2:55 PM EST via mobile reply actions 1 recs
Canadian Healthcare;
BROCKLESNAR is not impressed with your performance.
Blackout612- "Wuts teh UFC?"
Ubernoober- "It like two guy who just stand and swing for fence and try to knock each other shit out it awesome"
I will put Brock in the group of people who don’t know what socialism is.
Some people think I am a dumb, ugly human being, but really I am a beautiful ape, with exceptional verbal skills.
by szucconi on Jan 20, 2010 2:58 PM EST reply actions 3 recs
If you're going to start making lists of thinks that Brock Lesnar doesn't know,
…don’t start with political ideologies, start with BJJ. :-)
Don't believe a word I say, I don't train BJJ.
I blog at TangleBones - you should follow me on Twitter here.
Yeah, I LOL when I hear the “socialism is evil” thing, as people here are driving on public roads to visit public libraries to get books for their kids going to public schools. Not to mention medicare and social security, etc. Doofuses.
certified warlord
by kenpoboy67 on Jan 20, 2010 3:06 PM EST up reply actions 3 recs
socialism isn’t having any sort of public facilities or w/e.
“Socialism refers to the various theories of economic organization advocating public or direct worker ownership and administration of the means of production and allocation of resources, and a society characterized by equal access to resources for all individuals with a method of compensation based on the amount of labor expended”
I.e. where the govt. owns lots of industries, particularly the core industries. Applying these basic categories to the real world get a bit hairy, but it’s fair to say that most rea societies have free market aspects and socialist aspects.
The current American health care system is hardly a free market, though people seem to think it is.
"an excellent example of why most MMA "journalism" is a joke. Pseudonyms like "toxic" and shitty writing like that dopey article"--- Joe Rogan.
by toxic on Jan 20, 2010 3:27 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I’m not sure where you stand on the matter.
Do you think a public health care system is socialist?
Pain is Temporary
Pride is Forever
My point is that you aren’t a socialist if you like the fire department. And that a health care market that is heavily regulated and controlled is not a free market.
I’ll leave it at that.
"an excellent example of why most MMA "journalism" is a joke. Pseudonyms like "toxic" and shitty writing like that dopey article"--- Joe Rogan.
by toxic on Jan 20, 2010 3:43 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Exactly
As you can see from this chart, Brock and all the others are really on to something when they worry that we are are at risk of becoming a socialist nation.
by John Nash on Jan 20, 2010 3:38 PM EST up reply actions 8 recs
RUN! THE COMMIES ARE COMING!
Don't believe a word I say, I don't train BJJ.
I blog at TangleBones - you should follow me on Twitter here.
love this graph
We're just a million little gods causin' rain storms, turning every good thing to rust.
by Anthony Pace on Jan 20, 2010 5:09 PM EST up reply actions
* Brock was suffering for almost a year with stomach pains and didn’t know what it was.
* Brock’s lowest moment was getting care from Canada.
So was he training in Canada for almost a year? Otherwise this sounds like American Health Care Fail to me.
Don't believe a word I say, I don't train BJJ.
I blog at TangleBones - you should follow me on Twitter here.
Notice that it was American doctors to misdiagnosed it as mono to begin with.
I’m really curious what hospital he was at in Canada. If he was out hunting somewhere, then I’m guessing it was probably in some backwater little town, which would have alot more to do with the level of care than socialism.
Then he hops in the car and drives to North Dakota, because apparently the world leaders in health care are in fucking Bismark.
So in summary, this guy’s argument against socialized medicine is perhaps not the most well thought out.
There's a reason he's a fighter...
…and not on a health care advisory panel.
Don't believe a word I say, I don't train BJJ.
I blog at TangleBones - you should follow me on Twitter here.
by jemaleddin on Jan 20, 2010 3:45 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Doctors in Canada couldn’t do anything for him, it was like he was in a third world country
Yeah, right, I’d like to hear the real story from those doctors.
He makes it sound like people are dying left and right in Canada.
Do you expect Lesnar to have a different view? He fits every mold of a Republican.
by snakecharmer1340 on Jan 20, 2010 3:03 PM EST reply actions
I get why,
but I think it sucks that with all those other statements, and Brock Lesnar coming back, people are still focusing on the politics…
by Anton Tabuena on Jan 20, 2010 3:05 PM EST reply actions 3 recs
I think it's because Brock focused on the politics.
But that’s just speaking for myself.
Don't believe a word I say, I don't train BJJ.
I blog at TangleBones - you should follow me on Twitter here.
by jemaleddin on Jan 20, 2010 3:06 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
note: i said I get why people are focusing on the boring politics issue… but I still think it sucks.
by Anton Tabuena on Jan 20, 2010 3:13 PM EST up reply actions 3 recs
Thinking more about it, it is totally relevant to MMA and MMA fighter. The dynamic of fighters as far as wealth is like a microcosm of the public. A small portion being very rich and getting the best, while some get none at all. i.e. Forest Griffins arm in the first season of TUF and Randy Couture and his blood doc keeping him young. Its not only an issue of wellness, its a competitive advantage to have good health care. If this were an up and coming Brock Lesnar who won his local Tuff man show and had no money training for his UFC debut, we might be reading about his funeral.
Some people think I am a dumb, ugly human being, but really I am a beautiful ape, with exceptional verbal skills.
Even more importantly,
More fighters could afford to fight full time if they had guaranteed health care. One of the guys here (Brent?) wrote that up for his things MMA needs to continue to grow article, so this discussion is ENTIRELY appropriate.
Don't believe a word I say, I don't train BJJ.
I blog at TangleBones - you should follow me on Twitter here.
never said it wasn't.
i just said it was boring.
by Anton Tabuena on Jan 20, 2010 3:22 PM EST up reply actions
Well, we agree on that much.
But what is there to say about Brock? He’s fighting in half a year against an opponent to be named later?
Don't believe a word I say, I don't train BJJ.
I blog at TangleBones - you should follow me on Twitter here.
yeah, but what else is there to talk about form this interview? we already knew about everything else.
by gavingavinkindgavin on Jan 20, 2010 3:39 PM EST up reply actions
Yeah...
that was me. It would be a really big deal for fighters were that to be the case. Imagine not working for years though pain until you need major surgery when you could have handled it with a minor surgery early in your career.
I’ve caught a guy with my ankle while we were rolling and busted him open. He, rather than dropping money on stitches, had me superglue him shut. This was like 3 weeks before a fight. How lame is that?
I mean, not even getting into the political side of things. It would just be a big help for fighters.
Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
MMA Editor - SBNation.com
by Brent Brookhouse on Jan 20, 2010 3:38 PM EST up reply actions
Would be huge. Promotions being forced to hire fighters as employees and provide insurance while they were under contract would be a huge plus as well. And lets not even start discussing pensions. A lot of these guys are going to be unable to walk in a decade or two.
Its not even that so much. Covering fighters under contract is fine and maybe a nice step, but the real issue is having no support system to grow as MMA fighters. Wrestling can get you through college, but it’s not MMA. BJ became great by being a freak and living in a gym. He didn’t worry about money. Now think about how many freaks could be out there working and not about to work the craft. Same issues exist for boxing. It’s less so for Football and baseball since they are so ingrained in culture.
Some people think I am a dumb, ugly human being, but really I am a beautiful ape, with exceptional verbal skills.
Agreed.
Now go tell that to Brock.
Better yet, wait until there’s universal health care first…
Don't believe a word I say, I don't train BJJ.
I blog at TangleBones - you should follow me on Twitter here.
Open medicare so everyone can buy in (medicare for all). eliminate the Antitrust exemption, allow people to buy private insurance across state lines, and have tort reform. That’s it.
That solves most everyone’s problem, improves the system and makes all ideologies happy…. but that’s not what we’re getting are we?
We’re getting some fucked up shit where people are forced to buy insurance from private monopolies who control government policies. That’s not even socialism – it’s closer to fascism.
It’s a disaster.
This is the problem with big governemnt and allowing it to get involved in everything… they cant come up with optimal solutions to our challenging problems.
Only Free people and free enterprise can.
by mmalogic on Jan 20, 2010 4:54 PM EST up reply actions 8 recs
I know, but you have to give the socialists something. If I had my way I’d let people opt out of or get rid of social security, medicare, medicaid and all the other bullshit.
Socialism is great if it’s voluntary and local. I’d like to decide for which causes I want to contribute to based on how they perform – kind of keeps them honest and incentivizes good work and productivity.
America is like strikefarce now. Watch what happens there and you’ll see what’s in store for the future of the once greatest nation on earth.
There was a mechanism to self correct at that time… People back then actually had common sense intellect. Stupid is the current majority now. We now have ignorant (farm boy) stupid and highly educated (college elite) stupid.
For each policy issue there’s 3 or 4 major players now that call the shots from education, to healthcare to defense, food, energy etc… and nothing to counteract that.
The only thing keeping things alive is what little free enterprise in certain sectors we have left. Free people and free enterprise and amazing things can happen.
Look at any country and ultimately it’s the corruption that either destroys it or never allows it to get going. We have legalized corruption and bribery.
There was a reason and wisdom behind Limited Govt… and that was because it is corruptable and if it was limited it would have little effect and can be easily rectified. If Govt controlled little money then it wouldnt be worth it to bribe And if Govt was decentralized and there was more power at the local level it would be easier to combat the corruption.
I just dont see any path for self correction pre implosion.
by mmalogic on Jan 20, 2010 5:40 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I agree, but I think the implosion happened in MA. Big govt has been rejected and the economy is just on hold waiting.
I hope so.
Ideally the good news in Mass is that now we may get some gridlock and govt can get out of the way for the time being and (do nothing) while the free enterprising people fix the mess these idiots created.
One party control is an absolute nightmare. The govt grew more under bush then at any other time in history besides the current regime.
The best case scenario would be to have one party control the white house, an opposing party controlling the house of reps and a close to equal split in the senate which will probably happen in 2010 and 2012. Whether it stays that way…
Hopefully This dynamic would stay this way for a good decade plus so they are neutered long enough for free enterprise to fix these problems.
by mmalogic on Jan 20, 2010 6:07 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
So you live in or are from MA. I’m narrowing your identity down.
"I see him beating Anderson Silva. I see him picking him apart. Him at a 131 years old...(trails off)." - Tito Ortiz on Vitor Belfort at Affliction:DOR
by Rundownloser on Jan 20, 2010 7:31 PM EST up reply actions
Yeah allow people to buy insurance across state lines so that all insurance companies move to the state with the most lenient insurance regulations where they can concentrate all of their lobby money on one state and make the laws even more lenient on them. Great idea.
by Polyh3dron on Jan 20, 2010 5:18 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
so… if less regulation means a worse product then…. you’re going to get what you pay for right?
One state may become the “saturn” for health insurance while another becomes the “mercedez” for health insurance.
You do realize there’s a mcdonalds and a mortons steak house right? the product they serve is different… they both make money and serve alot of customers. I kind of like having those options.
Morton’s has different “regulations” for the type of meat they buy and how they prepare it to Mcdonalds. This is why Mortons can sell a burger for more than 10 times the amount and have customers happily paying for it.
So yes… Allow purchasing across state lines. If a states regulations doesn’t improve the product then those regulations arent worth shit. This will improve the cost, the regulations and the quality and diversity of the product.
Dont fuck with my mortons steak because you want to feed everyone Mcdonalds.
by mmalogic on Jan 20, 2010 6:20 PM EST up reply actions 4 recs
Except...
Your fucking dinner selection isn’t as important as the life and health of the most worthless human being on the planet.
Thanks. Let me know what someone wants to only be somewhat healthy.
Associate Writer - WindyCityGridiron.com
Except… my freedom to choose what I want to eat for dinner or my dinner selection is actually worth more than that humans life… infact it is worth millions of lives because that’s how many died to ensure I and there children have that freedom to choose what the fuck they want to eat.
They didnt die so politicians can take our money and give 30% of it to the insurance industry. They didnt die so they can take our money and give it to wall street. They certainly didnt die so govt engineered monopolies could dictate what I can and what I cant do with my doctor.
If you allow interstate commerce on insurance products and eliminate the anti trust exemtpion the insurance products will become more robust, cheaper and higher quality. That’s what real competition produces. You wouldnt have an iphone or a computer if it wasnt for this simple principle.
Instead of the insurance companies working with 30% margins it will go down to 5 to 7 and They will be more focused on facilitating a better and more effective healthcare experience. They’ll probably provide vitamin d for free because that reduces cost tremendously as well as other prevention protocols like proper diet, exercise memberships,etc…
Open medicare to all ages… I dont give a shit as long as there are performance and budget controls. The post office is great but I better damn have my options of fedex, UPS and dhl.. Not a govt engineered monopoly. I want my private options developed organically by good ideas, real entrepreneurs and based on the markets needs where there’s real competition to continue to improve it.
People who still need a mommy’s teet can have medicare and the adults can have the grown up stuff. This is the absolute best solution for all ideologies and we’re not getting it because the majority is stupid.
by mmalogic on Jan 21, 2010 12:03 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
This is how it works in Australia
Our healthcare system is very good
Limited (but available) free medical care with robust competition in the private insurance sector (my health insurance was so low and i could claim all sorts of extras like chiro, acupuncture, physio etc.)
helps having a nation of ~20million though. Much easier to organise, less poor people.
'He built his whole reputation as a waffle house chef. They’ve been serving him up ham and eggs with a side of canned tomatoes' - Don Frye on Fedor Emelianenko
by Well Read Idiot on Jan 21, 2010 10:00 AM EST up reply actions
Deregulation did wonders for the financial industry, didn’t it.
by Polyh3dron on Jan 20, 2010 6:58 PM EST via mobile up reply actions 2 recs
I don’t want to be snide, but why do you tout the United Arab Emirates so much? Everything, including the 10% they just bought into Zuffa, is owned by the state. If that isn’t several steps closer to a “radical and authoritarian nationalism with a corporatist economic system”, also known as fascism, then what our current system is, I don’t what is.
Precisely. If Brock hates Socialism so much, he must hate Zuffa for being 10% Government owned.
by Polyh3dron on Jan 20, 2010 7:45 PM EST via mobile up reply actions 1 recs
Abu Dhabi or the UAE has nothing to do with socialism. Actually their system is closer to singapore’s which is ranked highest as a free enterprise nation.
Abu Dhabi is creating the only “Green” city in the world. You’re not taxed on productivity in general in the UAE. Innovation and Enterprise is highly encouraged there.
Look at Cuba and Singapore then you’ll see what socialism produces and what Free enterprise produces. The revolution in Cuba and Singapores indpendence was only around 14 years apart.
Look at the difference. Look at the quality of life for the average person.
Singapore is a metropolis… it’s like your in the jetsons. Cuba is a shit hole like the flintstones. The average pay in Cuba is like 2 bucks a week.
Singapore is the 17th richest nation in the world and it’s only been 50 years.
I didn’t say they had anything to do with socialism, I compared the UAE to fascism, also known as “radical and authoritarian nationalism with a corporatist economic system”. And Abu Dhabi isn’t a bastion of free enterprise, it’s a place with a lot of money which they, the government of Abu Dhabi invest into companies, like Zuffa.
And of course they don’t have to tax my much because the government has a stake in everything, Except in the free trade zones, the UAE requires at least 51% local citizen ownership in all businesses operating in the country as part of its attempt to place local control over all assets.
And of course the quality of life is great for it;s citizens, who make up only 80% of the population. The plantation of the south were great for those that ran them too.
On the current Index of Economic Freedom, released Jan 13th, 2009, by those lefties at The Heritage Foundation and The Wall Street Journal, the UAE comes in 54th, behind Mexico, but ahead of China. For perspective we come in 6th. Ten of the top twenty are from “socialist” Europe. So I wouldn’t be waving the UAE as a shining example of socialism.
So they give 51% of what you make to their citizens instead of taking it for themselves as taxes… what a horror. Talk about a novel concept. Other govt’s take around 51% from you for themselves.
That’s part of the old system anyway. Everyone operates out of the free trade zones now where you keep 100% of your earnings and own 100% of your assets.
in 10 years, you’ll see where things are headed.
Abu Dhabi isnt a government… it’s a business. They know what business model works and it’s the singapore/hong kong model…. not the cuban socialist variety.
It’s effective and efficient. Some of the greatest universities in the world are opening up shop there.
You’re right Abu Dhabi isn’t a state but the personal estate of a family. I have to admit to you that I am a little alarmed that you put on a pedestal a place ruled by monarch, where the position of head of state is hereditary, where only 20% of the population are citizens will full rights, where foreign workers have to get a personal sponsor to work there – the kafeel system – and need permission to leave the country, and where almost all domestic companies are owned by the state (bet you there’s never a conflict of issue with them). This is your capitalist paradise?
Next time you are there, and I’m being serious, and your enjoying the large wages they’re throwing at you, the numerous third world servants at your beck and call, and what an adult Disneyland it is, please take note of the number of actual UAE nationals who actually have a job or do anything in their own country and tell me how any other country can imitate this without the vast amounts of oil they’re living on.?
by John Nash on Jan 21, 2010 1:24 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
Ruled by monarch… how do you think companies and family businesses are “ruled”. This is one of the last places people are being oppressed. You want to do some activism your efforts are better invested somewhere else.
Next time you put on a pair of sneakers ask yourself how many kids were pistol whipped into making them.
Spare me this nonsense. Ive spoken to the laborers… they would be making 10 times less back home – do you realize how many jobs the UAE produces for the region and how much that contributes into its growth and development when they go back home.
In the beginning for a few years there were unsavory head hunters screwing people (taking there passports) when bringing them… but that’s all been cleaned up. America had over a 100 years of actual slavery so you need to get some perspective on things. You know how many were killed building the great wall of china?
They do have vast amounts of oil but they will be able to sustain quite well eventually even without it factored into the equation. They have been diversifying and buying into and have interests in pretty much every sector and the portfolio is only growing. They buy IQ, they buy everything. I applaud their ambitions, forward thinking and trying to better their existence.
Capitalism and Democracy are 2 different things. You seem to combine the 2 incorrectly. Democracy is not even the ideal governing system. A Republic is (which is what the USA was founded as – see pledge of allegiance: “and to the republic…”).
Democracy doesn’t equal freedom.
By the way the UAE is currently ranked 46 in the economic freedom index… so it moved up 9 spots from the old data you were looking at. It has begun.
Yeah, I kinda want to say a whole lot more, but it’s an MMA blog so I’m restraining myself as best I can.
You have to be the man... you have to be very, like, alpha male with her. You know? Decide what you do and everything. So, show her who's the boss, you know? - GSP
I agree, I have more to say on the issue, but on an MMA blog, I will keep my trap shut.
Some people think I am a dumb, ugly human being, but really I am a beautiful ape, with exceptional verbal skills.
FOR THOSE ABOUT TO BROCK
we salute you.
by DamnSevern on Jan 20, 2010 3:08 PM EST reply actions 6 recs
rec’d for AC/DC. Nog vs. Velasquez will be in Australia.
by MMAInFeRioRiTy on Jan 20, 2010 3:15 PM EST up reply actions
I can see how he’d think that. He is rich. Unquestionably the U.S has some of the best health care in the world. Access to it, and cost, is a whole other deal, and the statistics are pretty undeniable- even foxnews will admit that. Canadians pay about half as much and live longer.
Drawbacks under both systems. I prefer the Canadian one, and aside from this kind of hyperbole over “socialism”, it works fairly well…
by TLow on Jan 20, 2010 3:10 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
I think a lot has to do with location…I live in Rochester, MN where the Mayo Clinic is and I can’t count the amount of hospital care horror stories I have heard from non-residence that were initially treated in a hospital somewhere else in the US.
Mayo Clinic is one of a few unique situations that show how a not-for-profit hospital can work and provide top level care. If all of the healthcare system could follow suit there would be no need for the universal healthcare issue.
The biggest flaw with universal healthcare is the loss in incentive for innovation. I think a lot of universal healthcare systems thrive because they reap the benefits from innovation coming out of non universal care systems like the US. There needs to be a way to fund research and development in medicine before universal healthcare can truely work.
Which is why I am stunned at the opposition to the public option. It gives us the benefits of both, a non-profit healthcare system that competes with a for-profit healthcare system, allowing competition to keep prices down.
It's just proof that Plato was right
and democracy is a terrible form of government because the masses are stupid and fickle and have no idea what’s good for them. Where’s my philosopher king when I need him.
Where’s my philosopher king when I need him.
I hate to break the news to you… He has passed away.
'He built his whole reputation as a waffle house chef. They’ve been serving him up ham and eggs with a side of canned tomatoes' - Don Frye on Fedor Emelianenko
by Well Read Idiot on Jan 21, 2010 10:14 AM EST up reply actions
The only problem with the healthcare system in the US is the cost…Medical costs are going out of control since they almost solely get paid for by insurance companies. The insurance companies spread the cost throughout all their customers and make it difficult if not impossible for people that would cost them a lot of money to join.
Thanks, Brock, for your opinion on our health care system.
The Canadian health care system has its problems, but sorry Brock, you’re rich. Of course you can afford the best doctors in the US. There are millions of Americans that would greatly benefit from universal health care. Also, the US is 37 on the WHO reports. Canada isn’t much better at 30, but I’d hardly call it third world.
That being said, I’m glad Brock is okay, and I’m glad he’s wanting to fight Mir again.
You have to be the man... you have to be very, like, alpha male with her. You know? Decide what you do and everything. So, show her who's the boss, you know? - GSP
Brock's Point is
That you don’t even have the doctors regardless of money to give a solution in Canada for his illness. Only in American he had that option. Since the Canadian health care system doesn’t incentive innovation or medical procedures and rations care, you get people with Brock’s illness and others with Cancer & heart disease that come to America to get treatment.
Yea reform would be nice in America to lower costs but that comes from Tort reform (making BS lawsuits on the medical field limited) and creating more competition between insurance companies by allowing them to sell accross state lines like car insurance (ie Geico). Soclialising Health Care by the government that doens’t ever need to show a profit like Canada, only spreads misery equally.
Just take a look at the United States Postal Service. They are bankrupt can’t send mail efficently and Fed Ex & UPS (profitable private companies) can deliver regular mail faster cheaper and better but the government won’t allow them.
I’m glad Brock decided to highlight this point during his interview. People don’t realize what this government really means by reform.
by KillerInstinct on Jan 20, 2010 3:57 PM EST up reply actions
Arrrrghhh, must resist...urge...to...debate!
…
Also, the USPS gets me my Netflix within a single day. So there.
I finish beers at 1:55.
Just as one example off the top of my head, the lung transplant program in Toronto is considered to be probably the best in the world, and is currently pioneering a revolutionary new transplant procedure that was developed entirely in Toronto.
There is no shortage of medical innovation in Canada. The only reason Canadians go to the US for treatment is to shorten the waiting period, NOT because the level of care is better.
Yea We must Resist Agreed
Not the site to debate this. I’m going to make a few quick response to Agent & Pud. Waiting 8 months to a year for heart surgery is related to the level of care as you could die if you don’t get the surgery soon enough.
To Pud, not sure what facts prove that Canadian’s live longer but the truth on what they percieve as spending less is because they are all taxed much higher than us to pay for the care. How else does the government pay for all the medience for everyone.
Bottom line is if Mommy & Daddy (the government) takes care of providing it’s son’s & daughters (we the people) of everything, they have the right to tell who gets what level of care and who doesn’t (or for any other socialised aspect of life). Because they love all of their children but if they can’t pay for them all then, they let them all suffer equally. While the children don’t have incentive to take care of themselves as they think their parents will do everything for them.
Or we keep the free market route, and just enable them better as competition solves the issues. Plus we all would be incentive to take care of ourselves and be more shrewed in our life choices. Having the advantage of real independent choice, not being told by the government what are choices are.
But enough of this shit as it all changes anyway with the dems losing 60 votes in the Senate anyway. I’m looking forward to see Free Market Brock take on the old former Socialist Russian Fedor to actually settle debate. Which could also mean that this debate may never really end as well.
by KillerInstinct on Jan 20, 2010 4:24 PM EST up reply actions
Um, no. If our doctors sucked so bad, I wonder why Canadians live longer and spend less on their healtcare than Americans? Our doctors here are excellent. I question what really went on with Brock and the doctors. Forgive me if I don’t fully believe Brock’s interpretation of what happened and how incompetent the doctors were. It’s nice that he can sit there and criticize the Canadian doctors, while at the same time picking and chosing what info he decides to release to the public, cause he’s a private guy, right?
You have to be the man... you have to be very, like, alpha male with her. You know? Decide what you do and everything. So, show her who's the boss, you know? - GSP
Canadians live longer because they eat better and have less stressful lives.
Forget about all these UN reports and charts… You cant isolate quality of medical treatment because there’s alot of other factors involved like diet, stress, etc… here’s the only indicator you need to know:
Poor americans go to canada for care and Rich Canadians go to America for care.
poor people buy Saturns. Rich people buy mercedez. Figure out which one is the better car and you’ll realize which country actually has the better treatment and care.
The best doctors go where they get paid the best… just like the best baseball players go where they get paid the best.
Canada is a good option for poor people and America is a good option for rich people. Mcdonalds is a good option for poor people and Mortons Steakhouse is a good option for rich people… But which one offers the better food?
by mmalogic on Jan 20, 2010 5:23 PM EST up reply actions 4 recs
The fact that the rich get better care than the poor is obvious. But you can’t just forget about the facts. Yes, there are many variables that effect quality of life, like diet, stress, etc. But what Brock is doing is comparing some doctor out in the middle of Gimli Manitoba to the doctors at the Mayo clinic. Yes, rich Canadians go to the US for treatment, but it’s because they are bypassing the wait times, which is a huge problem in Canada. It’s not perfect, but it’s not as bad as Brock would lead others to believe. If you’re rich, that’s fine, but the average American isn’t receiving the same level of care as the average Canadian. If they are, they’re still paying more for it.
You have to be the man... you have to be very, like, alpha male with her. You know? Decide what you do and everything. So, show her who's the boss, you know? - GSP
Yeah, they’re definitely paying more for it. Both systems are shit in general.
It’s amazing how these people cant look at countries like south korea (least cost per person) and France best quality, and the US (best talent) and come up with the optimal solution.
And people want more govt to solve more of our problems… They cant even solve problems from 20 years ago.
by mmalogic on Jan 20, 2010 5:45 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
People have looked at the French option, which has the one of the highest citizen-satisfatction rates and one of the most cost effective systems in the world. But because it is from France we (Americans) have got to hate it.
In overall performance—relating achievement to expenditure— France ranks No. 1 in the world, the U.S. 37th according to the World Health Organization.
http://reason.com/archives/2009/12/07/why-prefer-french-health-care
http://www.businessweek.com/magazine/content/07_28/b4042070.htm
WHO=UN and don’t trust the source, but i will try and look at the links, but thats going to take time.
The United States is alone among developed nations in not having a universal health care system
In 2005, the United States spent 15.2% of GDP on health care, or US$6,347 per capita. Of that, approximately 45% was government expenditure.
In 2005, France spent 11.2% of GDP on health care, or US$3,926 per capita. Of that, approximately 80% was government expenditure.
third of Americans said they believe the U.S. system “has so much wrong with it that we need to completely rebuild it,” while only 9% in the Netherlands hold such a sentiment about their health-care system. Twelve percent of Spaniards favored a complete overhaul, compared with 15% in France, 17% in New Zealand, 18% in Australia and 20% in Italy.
http://www.marketwatch.com/story/americans-rate-us-health-care-system-lowest-among-10-nations
The USA is very different than most developed nations, and with the election in MA it speaks volumes that people don’t want govt to have a large role in health care.
Should we just jam HC down, when the people are at least saying slow down.
I can’t read all the links right now.
Dont bother they’re pretty dull.
I’m not actually for universal healthcare in the US, but something has to be done. I used to own a company, which fortunately I sold, but If i still had it my insurance premiums for my employees would kill me. The cost of healthcare, including Medicare, Medicaid, and insurance rates, is rising at 7-9% a year, When you look at our GDP growing at 2 or 3% for the foreseeable future, it’s obvious this can’t keep up. In fact this should be a priority for us since it is adding to our personal and national debt every day. One of the simplest and easiest solutions would be a robust public option, but this, a far more conservative plan than what Clinton or even Nixon tried to get through, is labeled as socialism.
but something has to be done.
I just cant agree that something no matter whatever it is has to be done. I don’t think the majority of Americans feel like their HC is in jeopardy.
And no one felt that the housing market was going to collapse, or that so much of the value we’d gained in the markets was imaginary, or that the financial institute were capable regulating themselves, or that oil would stay at $30 a barrel forever, or that Afghanistan could be “lost”. But all these events came up and bit us in the ass, I would like for us to try and manage this one before it gets too late.
The Interesting Fact missing
Is the fact of HOW HIGH France citizens are taxed to pay for their Health Care (among a lot of other things in their lives). You think it’s bad in NY,CA or MA. Check out much of socialised Europe. Give your money to Daddy and he’ll take care of you, don’t worry. Unless you want a choice other than Daddy, but Daddy won’t let you have one.
Once government has control of your health they can easily justify controlling many other aspects of your life.
by KillerInstinct on Jan 20, 2010 7:57 PM EST up reply actions
I know right? Government already controls the police and fire departments, the educational system, the clean water I drink, the seal of approval on the food I eat, the minimal wage that doesn’t allow an employer to pay me even less for my work. Damn those government bastards! enough is enough!
Pain is Temporary
Pride is Forever
In America we just never seem to have socialism without some disgusting connection to corporate monopolies.
In my opinion, the ultimate examples of American socialism are Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac. More often than not, government intervention (for some reason) here seems to mean taxpayers take the risk and some monopolistic corporation makes the profits.
This is frustrating because it might be impossible to have an effective health care system without some combination of government interference and free market capitalism. Take innovation, for instance.
People argue that without free markets and profit incentive, we won’t get innovation. But where do those profits come from? They come in large part from patents. What do patents do? They essentially create monopolies.
Either we have to pay for research with public dollars, or we have to use government intervention in the free market (which is exactly what a patent is) to get innovation. We don’t seem, at least in this country, to be able to have particularly rational discussions about the proper role of the government in the markets.
Of course, maybe other countries are just as bad and I don’t realize it.
by Lauren J Darkbloom on Jan 20, 2010 7:03 PM EST up reply actions
Once again...
This is the worst analogy ever. Your choice of dinner isn’t going to kill you. A lack of health care will.
Associate Writer - WindyCityGridiron.com
And afterwards he can get on top of his wife
I finish beers at 1:55.
by ihateemo on Jan 20, 2010 4:01 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Brock can blame Canada all he wants.
Just to chime in on the healt crare debate here. Let us be clear. It wasn’t Canada’s universal health care that gave him diverticulosis, nor was it Canada’s universal health care that made him ignore his stomach pains for a year.
It was the result of a lifelong neglect of a proper diet. Whether it’s American or Canadian health care should be about prevention from a early age, not reactionary and treatment based.
by LiuLang on Jan 20, 2010 3:29 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
I wonder if
Brock could even name a third-world country. That’s a term that is getting thrown about wildly with no regard to its meaning.
by gavingavinkindgavin on Jan 20, 2010 3:50 PM EST up reply actions
there is no such a thing as third world country anymore, it’s developing countries.
Pain is Temporary
Pride is Forever
Actually, he tried.
He later said, to be fair to Canada, if he was in Thailand or Puerto Rico, he’d still want to be back in the US getting health care.
Question for Brock: Who owns Puerto Rico?
http://www.vancouversun.com/mma
Sorry but we don't OWN Puerto Rico.
They are a very proud independent people who would be insulted by this statement.
yeah…
We're just a million little gods causin' rain storms, turning every good thing to rust.
by Anthony Pace on Jan 20, 2010 5:37 PM EST up reply actions
Is Puerto Rico a US territory?
Yeah?
You own them, whether they’d be happy admitting it or not.
http://www.vancouversun.com/mma
Obama by a R1 KTFO (tactical nuke)
by Monday Morning Martial Artist on Jan 20, 2010 4:10 PM EST up reply actions
Brock is a Republican shill and this whole thing was an anti-Obamacare ruse IMO.
by An0nymous on Jan 20, 2010 3:37 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
Stil trying to figure out why NRA membership figures in here…
by some schmuck in texas on Jan 20, 2010 3:43 PM EST reply actions
My guess is that he was treated in Brandon, MB. If he was driven to Bismark, then Brandon makes the most sense.
I’m not entirely sure, but I think I heard he owns some land in the Riding Mountain National Park area, which is a few hours away from Brandon, and not near anywhere else that would have a decent hospital.
The place is a complete shithole, BTW.
Like I said, I bet the location had a lot more to do with the level of care he received than socialism.
Glad he's back...
…so that someone can relieve him of the belt the hard way instead of him abdicating it.
But seriously, coming back from a potentially career ending sickness? It’s funny how him and Mir actually have something in common.
(I also lol’d at him referring to Mir as his “stalker”.)
I finish beers at 1:55.
MMA fighters getting into politics and the healthcare debate? Let’s get politicians into the MMA ring.
Bob Reilly vs. David Paterson for the interim MMA legalization bill.
Make it happen Dana!
just funnin' man
don’t be so serious. It is kind of a wierd way for the site to go offtopic, though.
by some schmuck in texas on Jan 20, 2010 4:03 PM EST reply actions
"Brock is not a believer in socialism."
In communist Russia, Socialism is not believer in you.
Although detractors decry (MMA) as a brutal, bloody form of human cockfighting, aficionados know it is a brutal, bloody, totally fucking awesome form of human cockfighting. -The Onion
by The Kittitas Kid on Jan 20, 2010 4:03 PM EST reply actions 4 recs
Yeah Brock, if every American was a millionaire and/or had Zuffa paying our medical bills because their future depended on us we would have the best health care system in the world, but that’s not the case. Being a Canadian who has lived in the US now for 10 years and has health insurance through his employer here in the US, I can tell you that Canadian health care is vastly superior to the American system for the common middle class person. Not everyone is as rich as you Brock, so coming from a big fan of yours who never even heard of you prior to going into MMA, FUCK OFF.
by Polyh3dron on Jan 20, 2010 4:06 PM EST via mobile reply actions
Can’t wait to see Mir come back at him in favor of health care reform.
MIR vs LESNAR in the battle for health care reform!! Lol
by Polyh3dron on Jan 20, 2010 4:19 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
yep
that’s about what I think of that trailer-trash loser, Brock “Roidrage” Lesnar
by SteelerStuckintheSouth on Jan 20, 2010 5:22 PM EST up reply actions
" I opened a whole can of worms." Lesnar to Dana in this interview.
Lesnar realizes he messed up by going political. Listen @ 7:20 in.
by snakecharmer1340 on Jan 20, 2010 4:10 PM EST reply actions
Blame Canada
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D7UKllR0Edo
Its not a real country anyways.
by NinjaRehab on Jan 20, 2010 4:11 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
Although detractors decry (MMA) as a brutal, bloody form of human cockfighting, aficionados know it is a brutal, bloody, totally fucking awesome form of human cockfighting. -The Onion
by The Kittitas Kid on Jan 20, 2010 4:15 PM EST up reply actions
Here's a question:
If you’ve been having bad stomach issues for a year and haven’t been able to figure it out…
..and you choose to go sit in a cabin three hours from civilization, in a foreign country rather than have it sorted…
..and you suddenly feel ill and have to flee to a small town Icelandic enclave in the backwoods of Manitoba Canada for an emergency diagnosis…
How is that anything but:
Brock’s fault
Brock’s camp’s fault
The US health care system’s fault?
http://www.vancouversun.com/mma
by Ozzz on Jan 20, 2010 4:21 PM EST reply actions 6 recs
Are you suggesting Brock Lesnar isn’t terribly bright?
Although detractors decry (MMA) as a brutal, bloody form of human cockfighting, aficionados know it is a brutal, bloody, totally fucking awesome form of human cockfighting. -The Onion
by The Kittitas Kid on Jan 20, 2010 4:30 PM EST up reply actions
In words immortalized in The Breakfast Club:
“So I’m an idiot because I can’t make a lamp?”
“No, you’re a genius because you can’t make a lamp.”
http://www.vancouversun.com/mma
Let's get back to the real issue here, people...
That picture above totally looks like he’s tit-fucking his tattoo.
by agentsmith on Jan 20, 2010 4:34 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
Sorry about the Godwin's law violation, guys.
I thought it was pretty clear I was joking, but it wasn’t like that thread was hugely valuable anyway. I’ll shut up for a couple days now (unless I really can’t resist.)
My inbox needs me, anyway.
by some schmuck in texas on Jan 20, 2010 4:34 PM EST reply actions
Brock is entitled to his views as we are.
I’m not telling you I agree with him but the bigger question is how is he going to do after all this.
by snakecharmer1340 on Jan 20, 2010 4:35 PM EST reply actions
ANECDOTES are not = TRUTH
Look at the statistics.
by HonorableJudgeIto on Jan 20, 2010 5:02 PM EST reply actions
As an Australian, where we have a healthcare public safety net, this debate is largely baffling to me. What it boils down to is whether you see healthcare as one of the basic expectations a citizen of a first world country should be able to expect, and whether it serves the public good that people are able to access healthcare, and hence have a better chance of controlling disease.
The irony is that his stance on healthcare would deny coverage to many of the fans who made him the financial success he is today, and if anything they will love him more for it.
And I would also add, denying coverage to the aspiring MMA fighters who didn’t have the luxury of being fast-tracked into MMA’s highest paid elite.
GSP probably goes to private sports clinics instead of waitihg in line at the emergency rooom.
Keep firing Assholes!
Mind numbing, tedious and ultimately self defeating.
Yep. Wait times in Canada can be brutal, and is probably one of the biggest problems with our system.
You have to be the man... you have to be very, like, alpha male with her. You know? Decide what you do and everything. So, show her who's the boss, you know? - GSP
Brock Hater
Look I’m probably as much of a Brock hater as anyone but after this, I like the guy a little more. This speaks volumes for nationalized healthcare. It’s great 90% of the time for 80% of the people but if you are one of the 20% then it sucks to be you! My wife is from Canada and I’m not going to call it 3rd world but trust me people, if you have money or insurance then the US is where you want to be if you have anything remotely complicated.
It speaks volumes comparing a district hospital of a town of 5000 people to one of the best clinics in the US? That’s like arguing that Japanese MMA is better than US MMA because Dream is a better org than Yamma Pit Fighting.
by brad23 on Jan 20, 2010 6:54 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Brock is back. Seems like nothing has changed.
Keep firing Assholes!
Mind numbing, tedious and ultimately self defeating.
I think that if you skateboard the govt (other people) should pay when ram your nuts into a pole.
Let Freedom Ring
Another reason not to like Brock: he’s a right-wing ultra reactionary.
Hope he gets back in soon and gets a limb popped by Mr. Mir.
why is he ultra-reactionary? What has he done to make you believe that? He’s a fighter. Not liking him for his political views is akin to not liking Tim Robbins’ movies because you’re not liberal. He’s a good fighter just like Tim Robbins is an entertaining actor. BTW, did you like Terminator? I hear that guy is ultra reactionary, too.
On a sort of related note, World of Warcraft blog WoW.com is reporting that NZ MMA fighter Haydn Clasby is on the mend after the freak grappling accident which left him with serious neck injuries. They have a quote from Lil Evil in support of the NZ fighter as well.
http://www.wow.com/2010/01/20/the-classifieds-wow-player-mma-fighter-on-the-mend/
Good stuff that there isn’t anti-MMA sentiment over there, even for those who don’t seem to know anything about MMA or discuss it WRT what’s gone down, though I’m mainly going off of the Pulver thread (one of whose characters is “Crocop” the dwarven hunter). Heck, one of the posters there randomly played with one of Pulver’s characters without realizing until now!
Brock Lesnar knows how to stir the pot better than anyone in MMA. He’s not constantly in the public eye as Dana and others are, but when he emerges, he gets a lot of bang for his buck. Brock has successfully pissed off most of the left-leaning MMA fans aware of this conference call. He probably couldn’t be happier.
I find it all rather humorous. That is until I think of the poor BE staff members attempting to moderate this mess – notice how quickly people jump on their political horses when someone with a voice of sorts speaks out against their beliefs. So, I feel sorry for the staff here…for a moment.
If you don’t agree with Brock, fine. George Clooney was fairly convincing as Dr. Ross on ER, but who cares what he thinks about healthcare (or anything for that matter)? All I’m convinced of after scanning through all of this is that Brock Lesnar is a powerful figure…within the realm of MMA, anyway, and you can’t build a good firewall against politics.
by Cannon Jacques on Jan 20, 2010 8:47 PM EST reply actions 5 recs
Yeah, Brock is definitely a polarizing figure. I think the thread here has been pretty good. I figure if Brock can make some ignorant comments on tv, people retorting on a blog isn’t a huge deal. I actually really enjoy political discussion, and it’s been pretty civil here, so I don’t think the mods have any problems that I can see.
You have to be the man... you have to be very, like, alpha male with her. You know? Decide what you do and everything. So, show her who's the boss, you know? - GSP
rec'd for this..
If you don’t agree with Brock, fine. George Clooney was fairly convincing as Dr. Ross on ER, but who cares what he thinks about healthcare (or anything for that matter)?
by Anton Tabuena on Jan 20, 2010 10:42 PM EST up reply actions
after brock lesnar's mma career i think he has a career in politics.
if jesse ventura can be governor of minnesota, lesnar can become governor of north dakota or wherever he lives.
i'm all about covering the spread and moneylines. i was building a house, i don't deserve this, deserves have nothing to do with it. bang. "unforgiven"
by wolfmanshowlforever on Jan 20, 2010 9:28 PM EST reply actions
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